The Daily Beast Podcast - How Elon Musk Can Change the World With One Flick of a Switch

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

On this week’s episode of The New Abnormal, hosts Andy Levy and Danielle Moodie are shocked by just how much control billionaire Elon Musk has over the world. Plus! Executive Director of reproductive justice group the Yellowhammer Fund, Jenice Fountain, joins the show to talk about what’s going on in Alabama. Author Marc Tyler Nobleman also talks about his experience on a speaking tour of Georgia schools where school leaders found an issue with him saying the word “gay.” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. What an excellent show we have today.

Today we'll be joined by Janice Fountain, the executive director of the Yellowhammer Fund, who's going to talk to us about what's going on in Alabama after state Republican leaders have made advances to limit women's freedom of movement. Then we'll talk to Mark Tyler Nobleman, author of Bill the Boy Wonder, the secret co-creator of Batman. We'll talk about his experience on a speaking tour of Georgia schools where school leaders found issue with. with him saying the word gay. But first, let's have some fun. Andy, I have something really funny to report and share with you and our listeners. Enrique, Tario, has been sentenced to 22 years for his involvement in the insurrection. If you remember, he's the ex-proud boy leader.

More importantly, more importantly, he is the poster child for why you do not need to be white in order to be a white supremacist or a fucking racist. And what I find so just is just tickling all of my insides around this. It's that this stupid motherfucker who spent his time caping for white supremacy as the so brown person that was on fucking trial got the longest fucking sentence thus far at 22 years. Guess who sees that you're brown now, bitch? The justice system. I mean the irony. It is just amazing here.

Yeah, I have to say, I never even thought of it that way. That is amazing. My favorite part of his sentencing was that his lawyers tried to get his sentence cut short at the end by saying that. But, you know, he acted as an informant, which is like... usually not what you want to, you know, you want to be known as. When you're about to enter a federal prison. Well, exactly. I mean, I could just picture that, you know, helping his rap while he's in prison.

And I'm not sure that's going to work out too well for him. But yeah, this was an interesting case because he wasn't even in, he wasn't in D.C. on January 6th. But he basically was convicted for being the sort of, I think, think the judge called him the ultimate leader. So I know there's been some outrage among people on the right basically saying he wasn't even there. I don't know. They're so stupid. Like I just, all I think about is like if a mob boss orders someone to kill someone and that person kills somebody and your defense is not of the mob boss is not, well, he wasn't even there. Well, that's usually when someone would say that if they weren't trying to cover their own ass, Andy, because how many of those members

weren't even there, meaning like at the Stop the Steel rally or what have you. I don't know. Maybe somebody like, what's her name? Oh, you know, Ginny Thomas. Wasn't even there. But somehow had tons of money and influence and lots of incoming phone calls to Mark Meadows that day. But please, go on.

Yeah. No, that's all I have. I just, I'm just tired of the stupidity around all this shit. And it's just like, it doesn't matter that he wasn't there if he's, the one that if he's being convicted of basically organizing the whole thing and setting it in motion. I'm just sick of the stupidity. Well, what I find the most frustrating, aside from the laugh that I had earlier, it's that the Justice Department won at 33 years. They wanted 33. For all of the high sentences that they have called for, the judges have come back with either half that time

or 10 years or so less. Yeah. And Ricay Tario tried to overthrow the government of the United States of America, and he's receiving a sentence that is on par with people who have dealt drugs on a corner. Do you know what? And so like when I say these things, like I honestly want people to understand that criminality isn't criminality, right? Like a spade is not a spade when we're looking at the justice system. It is you have these maximum, mandatory minimum,

you throw the book at people for the most low level drug infractions so long as those people are black and brown, but trying to overthrow the government and setting up an entire operation to, I think, what did he? He was responsible for recruiting like 200 or some odd people to enter the Capitol building that day to quote unquote hang Mike Pence. He gets 22 years. He'll be 61 if in fact he serves all of that time, which we know that he probably will not. He'll only be 61 years old. And he gets to get out and live a full life. And so I think about that as there are people, black and brown people who are just like in jail at the age of 18 for the rest of their lives. 50 years you're giving sentences out for bullshit. But these people who attempted to,

this is the longest sentence we've seen. And I think that that's outrageous. So all I'm taking from this, Danielle, is you think the brown person should have gotten a longer sense. I do, because I'm a racist. Speaking of racism, Elon Musk, I mean, it's like if you put up a picture of colonizer, who comes up? I think it's him. Elon Musk had just the audacity isn't the right word. I don't know what this person thinks on a regular basis, but has decided to put all of his weight behind attacking the Anti-Defamation League. You know, the organization that is in charge of making sure that marginalized communities are protected from hate speech, from hate mongers.

And by calling out anti-Semitism on his very anti-Semitic prone site, he has allowed for there to be a worldwide trending of hashtag ban ADL. And it said that they are anti-Semites for calling out anti-Semitism and calling attention to the fact that when he came on board, he opened up the floodgates to a whole bunch of hate. Every single metric, it has risen on his now stupidly named X platform. $144 billion. You have all the money. Literally, the richest person in the world is the biggest bigot in the world who also gets subsidized from the United States for his other projects. And we just allow it because he's wealthy.

This blows my mind. Yeah, it's insane. And look, I'm not the hugest fan of the 80s. ADL in its current incarnation, and I don't particularly care for Jonathan Greenblatt who runs it. But that is so not the point here. I only bring that up because you don't have to be a full-throated defender of the ADL to talk about the insanity of this. And you've got Musk here basically saying that the ADL is one of the biggest generators of anti-Semitism on Twitter. And as anyone who tracks anti-Semitism throughout the ages can tell you, a common tactic of anti-Semites is blaming the Jews for them being anti-Semitic.

Well, for everything. For everything. But for basically saying the Jews have brought anti-Semitism on themselves. That's exactly the playbook that Musk is using here. He engages in dialogues with people like Richard Hananya, who we've talked about on this show, who was busted for saying the most her. horrific racist stuff, misogynistic stuff, anti-Semitic stuff under another name in the last decade. And these are the people that Musk engages with dialogue in about topics like this. And you don't need to be any kind of brain genius to see what's going on here. The Forward, which is a great

sort of lefty, Jewish independent newspaper, they have an article. It's like a running tally. Musk's disturbing comments about Jews. You just have to keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling to see them all. There's no mistaking what's going on here and there's no mistaking what he's doing. And he can say he's not anti-Semitic all he wants. He's full of shit. He can say he's not racist all he wants. He's full of shit. And all you have to do is look at the people that he interacts with on Twitter, which is what we're calling it till the day it hopefully dies. It's just a cavalcade of racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, transphobic, misogy. It's just the list is endless. And this is who he is. And I don't want to see any more articles like there have been like, oh, his politics are complicated.

No, they are fucking not. They are not in the least bit complicated. Just stop. When he says, I'm pro-free speech, no, you're not. No, you are not. Stop. Everything he says is basically a lie. He's like the guard in that logic problem where the one guard always tells the truth and the one

guard always lies and you have to figure out which one's guarding heaven and which is guarding hell. He is the guard who always lies. Everything he says, you just assume he's lying. And he's now leading this charge against the ADL with the full-throated support of all the anti-Semites and all the neo-Nazis and all the alt-right guys on Twitter. And again, this is who he is. And there is no excuse for pretending otherwise. No, here's the thing that is pissing me off with regard to Elon Musk is the media's

infatuation with him. And the fact that they don't call this out, right? that he's just allowed to be very wealthy, white, and eccentric. So his transphobia is it just, you know, him being eccentric. His, you know, his anti-Semitism. Oh, he doesn't mean what he says. Like, oh, he says this. Oh, it's just racially tinged.

Whatever the fuck that actually means. No one knows. But the reality here is that he has the hugest platform, the largest platform, the most money in the world. And he is one of the most dangerous people. and we don't talk about that. We don't mention that. We don't say by the virtue of him allowing all of this type of hate to infiltrate his space,

not only has his advertisers fled, but hate crimes have also risen. It's not a coincidence. And yet we pretend that it is. I'm like, this man is dangerous. What he's saying is dangerous. And if he were anybody else, he'd be on the FBI's fucking, like, flag list. I don't get it. And I also don't get, like, his adorn.

in-cell-like fanboy club either. But, you know, that's me. This guy has unbelievable power. And the government has sort of ceded this power to him. And, you know, he has this thing called Starlink. It's this network of satellites that provide wireless communication, cell service, Wi-Fi, things of that nature. We're now hearing he cut off access. Ukraine has been using it in its fight against Russia. And it's a tidbit from Walter Isaacson's upcoming biography, he turned off Ukraine's access to it just as they were about to launch an attack on Russian forces. And he did this purposely. Like, that's the reason he did it. And look, I mean, this is a complicated issue because he's providing the service free to Ukraine,

which is sort of a good thing. But it gives him this immense power. It's this immense power concentrated in the hands of one person where he can literally determine. the outcome of a war. Yes. By turning off the service at a critical juncture. And this is insane that we've let it get to this. I honestly, I don't even know what to say. One man has the ability.

And we're not talking about Putin, which is his friend, has the ability to just, you know, unplug, leaving, I don't know, an entire nation at risk. It's just like, I don't know, Andy. But like, what I do know is that the United States is subsidizing Starlink. And this is what he's doing. And I'm just like, this is our fucking tax dollars. It's not just his own money that he's using because everybody knows wealthy people don't use their own money. Right. They use our money. Yeah, that's why they're wealthy. Correct. Speaking of wealthy assholes

abusing money. Yes. Oh, God. I hate it here. Donald Trump. Take it away, Andy. Donald Trump. Do you guys know about this guy, Donald Trump? Fellas. Never heard of them. Have you seen this guy? He's been in the movies lately. He went on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, and he was asked if he had directed anyone to move the boxes at Mar-a-Lago with the classified documents in them. And his response was, I don't talk about anything. You know why? Because I'm allowed to do whatever I want. I come under the Presidential Records Act. None of that is true. You're not allowed to do whatever you want. and what you did is not covered by the Presidential Records Act.

But, you know, I understand that you're going to keep shoveling shit at people. And a number of them are going to eat it up and pretend it's a Ruth's Chris steak or something. And then he was asked if he would testify in his own defense at, I guess, one of his trials, the document trials. It's so hard to keep them straight. And he said, yes, that he would do, that he looks forward to it. I got to say, if I'm the prosecutors, there is nothing I want more than Trump on that stand. Oh, my God. It would be my favorite scene of this entire nightmarish saga. I ordered the code red scene.

Exactly. This is what this would be. Yeah, I fucking did it. I told them to flood the documents room and drain the, I told them to drain the pool into the documents room. I told them to hide the boxes because I can do whatever the fuck I want. What's you going to do about it? That would be the code read moment of this entire saga. And guess what?

I still don't think they would be able to convict him. You know, because this is not a movie, sadly. It is real life. But we've heard him in his depositions, right? My favorite moment in one of the many depositions that he's done, but particularly around the E. case was not being able to differentiate Marla, one of his many ex-wives, from E. Jean Carroll. He's asked, who is that? Oh, well, that's Marla. That's my, that's, that's my wife. You sure?

Yes, I, you know, with his pompous fucking, how dare you question me. Point again, this right here, that's Marla? Yeah, that's Marla. Um, no, sir, it's E. E. Jean. Amazing. The woman that he said, he said, he said, he said, he's, he. The woman that he said was quote unquote not his type. So yes, put him on the stand. Put him on every stand. I don't believe for a second he's going to take the stand. This is something I do think he'll be talked out of. But it's just like we've talked about this before. This guy has fucked around his whole life and never found out. And so he thinks that that's how this is going to work. And I think he's going to learn a really harsh lesson. Otherwise, if he does get on the stand, and does try to claim that the Presidential Records Act says the opposite of what it actually says.

I just think he's going to be absolutely demolished. And I am not like I'm the first one to be like every time they think they've got Trump nailed. I sit there and go, no, they don't. He'll get out of it somehow. Even I don't think him getting on the stand would be anything but absolutely horrible for him. So I pray, I pray that he takes the stand. Like you said, in every trial. I pray that he takes the stand and you said, you know, I think that he could be talked out of it.

I don't think Donald Trump can be talked out of anything, to be honest, right? Like, that's why this motherfucker runs through lawyers like other people run through toilet paper because he doesn't take advice. He doesn't listen to what they said. They said, turn over the documents. He said they're mine. I can do whatever I want with them. I declassified them because I dream of genie.

I blinked and they were declassified. I did it with my thoughts because I am AI, apparently. apparently. Donald Trump is not a person who you can tell what to do. So I think that if he ultimately says I, who better to come to my defense than me. I mean, other than, you know, Don Trump Jr., who's just trying to be loved. But like, other than that, I kind of want to double dog dare him. Go ahead. Be like, you wouldn't be able to do a good. Just like, let's do the opposite. Oh, he'll never take the stand. He'll take the stand because he's a child. I tend to agree with that, but again, I agree that his own lawyers probably can't convince him,

but I think they can talk to people around him, people like maybe Kimberly Gilfoyle, who is not, she's a horrible person, but she's not a stupid person, even though she does play one on TV. But I think they can talk to people like her, and maybe she can convince Don Jr. that this is a horrible idea, and they can go, I just think this is such a nuclear detonation of a bad idea that I have to think they'll they'll pull out all the stops and talking him out of it. But look, like I said, I hope they fail. I pray he pushes the button. Folks, I am very excited to welcome to the new abnormal. Janice Fountain, who is the executive director at the Yellowhammer Fund, which is an organization dedicated to reproductive justice

in the state of Alabama, which is currently under a... by its attorney general. Jeannies, I don't even want to provide the 50,000 foot view. I want to give you the mic to give us the 50,000 foot view because I will tell you that when former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tweets and says, this is insane, what is happening in the state of Alabama with denying people with uteruses what seems like the freedom of movement outside of the state of Alabama. Emma, tell us what is going on in your state?

Well, where to start? First, I think, I guess it just all starts with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, although arguably it starts so far before then. But last year, with the overturning of Roe versus Wade, we paused, right? We were trying to get our bearings, see what would be necessary as far as changes. And we were advised not to do anything surrounding abortion. And so I think where we really got initially shocked was we weren't providing abortions, like, as like a physician. So I guess we thought that our work with sending people out of state would not be compromised because we would assume that one could go out of state to do something that's legal in that state.

But what happened was the attorney general made threats publicly to criminalize folks that were assisting folks with going out of state. And he all but added Yellowhammer Fund. It was those folks from Alabama that were in Tuscaloosa that assist people getting out of state for abortion care. He all but said, Yelahammer Fund. And so it was really necessary for us to figure out, okay, how do we trudge forward without compromising the other work that we also do? Because, of course, we want to be like, oh, well, we're not listening. We're going to get people out of state because that's what they need. But we decided to really just throw that route of like, let's figure out the howls of like still doing.

our work and let's make sure that we're not, he's not going to stay and get on those threats, right? Because that's a huge thing to be criminalized for assisting people getting out of state for care when the state doesn't provide the care that folks need. So, I mean, here's the thing that I truly need to really understand about your attorney general, Steve Marshall, the lawsuit that you have brought alongside the ACLU, which he is trying to get dismissed. The lawsuit that you brought alongside the ACLU is with regard to freedom of speech. Your argument I'm assuming is that your work, you are allowed to tell, to use your speech, to tell women and people with uteruses how they can get care for themselves, how they can maneuver themselves at a state, what it is

that they need to understand about the law, about what they're facing, that your, you're Your work is advocacy, which requires speaking to people, right, about issues that affect their lives. And what Marshall is arguing is that basically he has criminalized the uterus and what you are doing, he is saying is aiding and abetting a criminal. Am I wrong? No, you're absolutely right. The basis of the law student is a First Amendment protection. And we've been advised also not to share any resources that directly assist people in getting care.

So it looks like not being able to tell people how to self-manage or how to access other care from other abortion funds. So we can't say like, oh, you need one Miffy and Formezo. We have to go, like one would have to look for the World Health Organization. You know, like it's a lot. It makes us go a really roundabout way of getting anyone care. And that's really inconveniencing as someone that needs abortion access. And then there's the part of the lawsuit that's on a travel basis because a threat like that,

really inhibits one's ability to travel for abortion care as well. So it's mostly, yes, a First Amendment issue based on the fact that we can't advise around getting people to care, and we also can't assist people with getting out of the state at all. But let me ask you this. In your case is going to be heard by the federal judge, I believe, sometime next week. Now that there is a threat that is being posed to freedom of movement, do you see or do your lawyer see another avenue on top of the First Amendment right of freedom of speech to be able to outmaneuver this AG. Because essentially what he is saying is that pregnant people do not have the freedom of movement. And so what is that going to look like? Is that going to look like a need to get a visa in order to leave

the state of Alabama? Like what are the lengths that he is going to go to? Does that mean that then all people need to provide their menstrual cycle so that you know that if you're leaving Alabama to, let's say, come to New York for a visit, that we know that you haven't had your period? Like, my point is, to what extent are there other legal avenues outside of freedom of speech for you to be able to address when you go to your hearing? So we definitely have the travel piece in there because as critical as necessary is already being looked at. This absolutely inhibits people's ability to travel. I think I would not be surprised if there was something else drastic done as it relates to

traveling. We see in Texas right now where they're trying to impose restrictions on people traveling for abortions by restricting highways. What does that mean by restricting highways? There's a new ordinance in Texas. It's a new discovery. So I don't want to mess it up. But there's a new ordinance in Texas that aims to,

stop people from using local roads to drive someone out of state for an abortion. How would you know? And I'm asking like a very like real question. How would you know who is in the car and what you're driving them around for? That is a great question and I am not sure. I would have no idea how one it won't figure that out. Let me ask you this question instead of pontificating. How many weeks could a person be along in their pregnancy and be able to still access it in alibi? And, Alabama before the overturning of Roe v. Wade. I'm not mistaken. It was 16 or 18.

It's supposed to be 20, but most people end up going out of state after 16. Mm-hmm. And so if before Roe fell, the time frame in weeks into a person's pregnancy was 16 to 20 weeks. You're a mom. How likely would it be at that time that you would. be showing? At 16 weeks, I wouldn't be very obvious, if at all, showing. It wouldn't be obvious. No, not at all. Okay. So they want to institute a law, or you're saying that a law has been instituted in the state of Texas that could be copycatted in Alabama, that would make it illegal for someone to be driving a person that is not showing in any

way, shape, or form that they are pregnant. So how, and excuse me, how the fuck would they know to be able to investigate and throw said people in jail? That's a great question that I don't have an answer to. It's just proposed at the moment. They are getting a lot of protests and kickback Yeah, because the reality here is that their proposals are just not based in science or reality. And what they want then is just the ability to control the freedom of movement, to control thought, to control all the mechanisms of what it means to live inside of a quote-unquote free society. Because what they're saying is that if you have the ability to carry a child, then your body does not belong to you.

And I'm just like, I'm wondering, because you're in Alabama, and we know the kind of judges that are in Alabama, as well as all of the judges that Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump are able to put in place across the country, what does your recourse look like to not leave people in the larch that are looking for care? It looks like being in jail or prison.

And I just want to really uplift that Texas, the people that are proposing this are likening it to trafficking and citing the Man Act, which is like any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery or any other immoral purpose cannot be transported. And there's so much wrong with likening, getting access to health care to trafficking. But that is what Texas is doing. Because they don't actually do anything about trafficking. I just want that to be clear. But anyway. Exactly. That's the irony in it.

The recourse for us still providing our services absolutely is prison time. And we're talking about prisons in Alabama that are already, they're overflowing. And they're a death trap. Not having access to abortion is a death trap. Adding the added criminalization of your pregnancy is a death trap. Not having abortion access is a death trap. Alabama is absolutely thinking of more ways to oppress and incarcerate its population, especially lower-income folks.

What have you seen over the last year or so since Roe has fallen? And forgive me because time is a vortex. And so I don't know if it fell last year or the year before, honestly. But give us a picture of what life has been like in Alabama since the fall of Roe. So initially, it was like a mix of, like, half of the folks that we interacted with had no idea. and then the other half thought that at the leak, they thought that was final. So before it even completely went into effect,

the leak had, it did its purpose. It chilled everyone out of talking about abortion access. And what I've noticed a year post-dops, because we are post-obs as a year as of June 24th, is that everybody is pregnant. Everybody that, we have family justice program. We had it before the DOPS decision,

and we would have clients that can birth, come from financial assistance. Some of them will be pregnant. Some of them wouldn't be. Every client we get now is pregnant. And there are a lot more clients pregnant and fleeing the state from domestic violence than we've ever had before. And that's been like a really sad, real outcome for this lack of abortion access is that people are having to flee the state pregnant from domestic violence from pregnancies they would have otherwise terminated. And another thing I've noticed is that a lot folks, there's like this, well, let's focus on people that can get out of state peace, and there's not enough safety nets. So I think that's kind of one of the things we tackle

early on was like, well, the state isn't offering anything in place of abortion access. There's no like, okay, you can't get an abortion. Here's a streamlined process for birth control, or here's this easier, more affordable way to get emergency contraceptives, sex and nothing. It was just you don't have abortion access, deal with it. In fact, the governor said, instead of offering anything in place of it, she said that she would streamline the adoption process. And so that was really a red flag for us as a whole. There was nothing on the preventative end being done statewide. And then there was this, what we view as black and brown birthing folks in the state, a threat to take kids out of our homes.

That's already our MO. We already know what that means. It didn't sound like, oh, that makes sense. Adoption is not a constellation for abortion access. So one of the things we did was have a legal fund because we know the state is heavily surveilled and we don't need anyone else to get into a crossroom system trying to access abortion. So we have an abortion legal fund. So if you try to get out of state, you get caught, you can have us pay for your legal representation.

If you try to self-manage and somehow get discovered, we will pay for your legal representation as well. And then we have a bit of a blanket or a safety net for folks that are going to be in the child Protective Services or Department of Human Resources system because they're going to be deemed as unfit because they carried a pregnancy that they weren't allowed to terminate. So it's just one giant trap. It's absolutely a trap. For folks that live in a blue state like I am in New York right now are really understanding what has happened over the last year.

Oh, my, not at all. I've been to New York since this has happened in Cali. And like, you would just, I guess it's just like, you know, you only know as much as like you can reach or here, but it's, you would think people are under rocks. Like, well, they can just go out of state. Well, no, they can't. Most people don't have decent.

There's not that many decent jobs for one, but there's not that's paid time off and gas and, like, child care. And, like, people are working jobs at determining pregnancies that don't have time off. Like, we're talking about people that are going to lose their job to go out of state for abortion access. And then there's that piece of like, I really can't say enough that it's a death threat because this state can't even get us through birthing. Like, you're forcing us into birthing and not making sure that we have anywhere to birth and then adding that extra layer of attacking midwifery care. So we have birthing centers in the state that are trying to do the thing that the state is failing at, which is keeping black folks safe while they're birthing. And we have the state saying, oh, let's implement even more regulations on midrary care that's effectively inhibiting them from being open or functioning.

So it's a death threat. If I don't have abortion access, you're telling me you want me to be at risk for death. And this state with this maternal mortality rate, that's a death threat. Because that was going to be my next question. What is the maternal mortality rate in Alabama? So nationally, and I always speak from the lens of black birthing people. So nationally, the rate for black birthing people is like three times that of white people, right? And Alabama is five times the rate of white people.

And so I have trouble not seeing these things as intentional. We have 20 deaths per 100,000 births. That's a lot of deaths per births. Jeannie's, what I will say is, you know, we will continue to follow your lawsuit as that hopefully has the ability to move forward. Because I think that what you and the ACLU is doing is what is needed. And this is a death sentence.

This is denying pregnant people the freedom of movement. This is fascism. This is white supremacy when you're talking about a state who is requiring women to give birth and then kills black mother. It's not hyperbolic to state. And so please, you know, with the last few seconds that we have, tell people how they can support your organization and others like it that are in these horrific states where, I mean,

you're at risk for jail. So we do a lot of trainings on reproductive justice work, reproductive health, and providing people with resources to then train or have the conversations with their community. I think that's the biggest thing that folks that are able can do is arm themselves with all of the information that they can so that they can have the conversations in their communities or with people that trust them to really break up that, like, silence, that taboo around abortion. Waste to plug in, we do a lot of safer sex kits packing. So that's like pregnancy tests, obulation condoms, plan B, that we ship out for free and we also give it out on the ground. people can plug in by emailing us at info at yourohammerfund.com and saying like, hey, I want to

contact safer sex kits or I want to give out diapers or I want to learn how to engage with Alice in the online portal for legislation. All of the things, everything that we have as a resource, we are always trying to train and give to other folks so that they can be that hub or resource in their communities with people that trust them. Thank you so much for making the time for the new abnormal. And thank you so much for the work that you are doing folks. Check out yellowhammer fund.org for more information on Janice's organization that needs all the eyeballs attention and help that you can give it. Appreciate you. Thank you so much. Back in 2012, my next guest wrote a picture book called Bill the Boy Wonder, the secret co-creator of

Batman, that upended what we knew about the creation of one of the most iconic characters in the world. His book became the basis for the great documentary film called Batman and Bill. And for years, he's given presentations about it to school children about around the country. But a few weeks ago, he had several appearances at Georgia schools canceled for an absolutely infuriating reason. Here to explain is Mark Tyler Nobleman. Mark, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me.

So before we get to what happened in Georgia, give us a quick synopsis of your work. For decades, Batman was considered to have been created by one man, Bob Kane. And your research proved that this was not so much the truth, right? Yes. For most of the last 80 years, there's been only one name in the Batman credit line, Batman created by Bob Kane. Bob was an artist. But Bob did not work alone. He had a collaborator named Bill Finger, who was the original writer and therefore the co-creator of Batman.

But Bill worked anonymously on Batman for 25 years, not only writing the first Batman story, but the first stories with many other iconic characters, Robin, Catwoman, the Joker. and elements like the Batcave and the Batmobile. But when he died in 1974, he still had no credit, almost no money, no acknowledgement, no obituary, no funeral, no gravestone, which is always a tragedy. But certainly when it comes to someone who created such a cultural impact, it was really egregious. And it really infuriated me and many other people, too, when they heard this. So I wrote a book about the creation of Batman to put Bill at the center of the story for the first time. where I felt he belonged. Bob did bring Bill in, but Bill was the prime creative force behind

most of these iconic enduring elements. So a large part of your research involved finding a living air of fingers because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get the attention of DC Comics and Warner brothers and you need an air for legal reasons to get the actual credit and stuff like that. And this brings us to Bill Finger's son, Fred, and his importance to your research. Right. So when I began my research, I very quickly learned that Bill had one known child, the son named Fred, who I had been told was gay and had died in 1992, which was 15 years prior to when I started. So I had been led to believe that I could write a book. I could give speeches around the world. I could raise awareness. I could blast it out on social media constantly and raise awareness. But to legally contest a credit line for something like this, you'd need to be an error. Now, I'm a naive person. So I thought, well, maybe in lieu of an air, we can do the next best thing and just build a groundswell of support from the public.

So I did look for family. And I found family, but I was never laser focused on an air specifically because I was, I had convinced myself there couldn't be one. If you were gay and died in the early 90s, it would be unlikely that even in liberal enclaves you'd be allowed to adopt then. It didn't even occur to me that there could be a biological error. So when I found one of Bill's nephews, he, putting on me, Shalani said, well, I can give you a little bit of information, but I think what you really

should do is talk to Bill's granddaughter. And it was like a record scratch. It was like, you know, I said, excuse me, what now? Bill doesn't have a granddaughter, as if I would know better than the family. And he said, no, well, I know what you're thinking. Fred was gay, but he did marry a woman in the 70s and they did have a child. Bill has a grandchild. It was like a movie marquee in my head that said, the air and a Batman. And I pivoted and immediately began looking for this air that no one knew existed. And I found her on MySpace, which dates this, and she became the hinge. And I said, I'm going to do everything I set out to do here. And I'm no lawyer, but I do believe that you are the critical piece in the puzzle to try to rectify the credit line. Okay. So to put it mildly, the fact that

Fred was gay is a big part of this story, because it's the reason you and a lot of people assume there was no heir to Bill when he died. Yes. There was no one researching it. to the extent that I did. There's no previous book or even significant article. But to the extent that anyone was paying attention, yeah, we were misdirected into thinking there's no point in looking for an error when there could not be an error. That is a critical moment. And I get it that the average third grader is not going to make all these calculations. But that said, I still should not have to defend the appropriateness of saying the word gay to, frankly, any age. So it's not even a question. It is appropriate. It's a major turning point in the research. But I do feel like,

I don't need to defend it on that basis alone. But that said, I'm also not saying what Bill's favorite baseball team or flavor of ice cream was. I get it. You don't throw in unnecessary details. It is necessary. But it's not there to be provocative on any level. Right. And which brings us to Georgia.

Because for years, you're speaking to school kids about this story and all your research and how you did this and the fact that Bill Finger now has a credit line in all Batman comics and Batman movies. And I'm assuming in the years that you're telling your story to school kids, you're mentioning the fact that Fred was gay with no complaints, and then suddenly we're in Georgia of August of 2023. And what happened? I should clarify that in my 20 plus years of doing this, in 30 plus states and almost 20 countries, I have had a handful of issues over this. Nothing ever escalated like it did in Georgia. I never was asked to leave or said that I would

leave if I couldn't keep my talk intact. So in Georgia, I was there in Forsyth County. First time I've spoken there. I've been in other counties in Georgia with no issue. this was my first time in Forsyth. And I was there to speak for three days, three schools, one school per day, three talks per day, one grade per talk. And it was third, fourth, and fifth. Each had their own talk. Usually there are one big group, but it depends on the school. I don't mind, whatever they prefer. So on day one, talk one, which was my first talk of the school year, you know, my big launch for the season. I did my talk as I normally do. And when I was finished, the kids filed out, and my host, who's usually the librarian, and in this case was the school

librarian, said, ooh, did you see how they reacted when you said gay? And I said, honestly, no. And I've done this enough that I would notice if there was any kind of visible or audible reaction, I didn't see anything. And she said, oh, well, it's just a, it's a divisive issue in this community. We've had some heated school board meetings and so forth. And she said, would you, would you mind, I hate to ask, I believe she said, but would you mind to leave that out? for the next two talks. And I said, I do mind more than one reason that goes against my conscience. And it also, it detracts from the impact of the story and the research reveals. And she said, it's just really a difficult issue here. And I said, well, invite your principal to the second talk,

which I already said that, actually. My contract encourages schools to invite the principal. It's not a big deal. So she, I believe said she'd do that. And then my second talk started. He had not shown up yet. So I couldn't talk with him or meet him before. And I saw him come in and huddle with the librarian and maybe another teacher or two in the back. And I knew what they were talking about, but I tried to maintain my focus on the kids. And then at one point, I saw the principal hovering and trying to, I could feel him trying to figure out how to interrupt me without making a scene or, you know, causing any kind of stir. And eventually he just stood by the side of where I was presenting and he walked over to me and handed me a note, which said, and I don't know the exact words, but it's online. And it said something like, please do not mention anything inappropriate for this audience.

And so since I was already in the zone and in front of the group, I went against my conscience and I did not say gay, which I have almost never done in 20 years. And so after that, I asked to speak with them. And we had a 40-minute conversation, very civil. And it just became very clear to me that there would be no convincing. It's such a hot topic in this community. I wasn't told this expressly, but it was clear to me that people were worried for their jobs. Not only that, but the lesser issue of having the field outraged calls from the vocal ignorant minority.

And I tried to appeal to him in a number of ways, one of which was just the basic that you're a role model and a leader at an academic institution. You need to step up here and do what's in the best interests of these kids in a country where, same-sex marriage is legal and in a county where you have gay parents and educators. Right. It's simply inexcusable to give in to that prejudiced minority. And he just wouldn't come around to that. You've candidly said that when you were first asked to drop the reference to Fred being gay, you acquiesced.

But then you said you had a change of heart. Take us through what your thought process was. So the night after this first school, I got a call from the principal of the next day's school, who asked me to follow the same procedure I followed on day one. And I told him, that was a one-time deal. I do not want to do that again. And I explained why. And he explained why he had to ask me that.

And I felt trapped, frankly, because he was, I felt like, you know, since I'd already given in, I was expected to do that again. Again, I knew at the time it was wrong. And it was certainly against my better judgment, but I did agree. That was actually my host school. That was the school that brought me into the other two schools. And, you know, I had this. was kidding myself, saying, well, you need to be a good guest. You're already here. You need to be a

respectful guest, even though I knew that was bullshit. I just was, that was my justification for doing that. And the other thing is that, frankly, you know, giving the kids this full talk without that word is still better than no talk. And I felt very conflicted about that, but I didn't want to shortchange the kids that was paramount for me. So I did go to the second school and not mention it, which again, and ate me up. So the next morning, the third and final day, I woke up planning to say it again, frankly. And then I saw an email from a reporter saying we'd like to talk to you about the situation in Georgia. And I thought, how does anyone know about that? I mean, who's spreading word already? And I also saw that Fox 5 Atlanta and another Georgia ABC affiliate had both covered this, quote

unquote, story already, not bothering to contact me, the person who started the fire, so to speak. I tweeted both of them, or rather X, X both of them, and said, journalism one-on-one, when you're covering a story of a school district that censors an author, it's basic journalism to speak with the author, which of course was ignored. And I also saw that the principal of this first school, day one school, the one I spoke with at length, had emailed or messaged out to his community an apology that a guest author said the word gay. not a simple statement to be transparent and say, I just need to let you know that an author said the word gay and we understand that this is a topic that is debated in this community. He went past that and apologized as if I had harmed people. So when I saw that, I just said, all bets are off. I'm just doing my normal thing. And I also saw a very balanced and smart response from a group called the Forsyfe Coalition and for education who said,

This is discriminatory. You think you're protecting people. You're actually harming people by sending a message like this. And then a response from the superintendent of Forsythe County saying that he stands by the principal. So that all just, I mean, that just totally ticked me off. So I emailed the superintendent and his director of communications and invited them both to come to one of my three talks that day. And the director of communication said that she would come to the second talk. And so I set off for that school.

And what happened? So I showed up. And the principal, no surprise. pulled me aside and said, we'd like you to follow the procedure from yesterday. And I said, you mean, don't say gay? It seemed like none of them could say it either. And she said, we just need to follow our standards. And I said, yes, but I give a 55 minute talk. I'm sure you can't go line by line and align everything I say with one of your standards. I'm giving you a professional, time-tested, powerful, empowering, inspiring,

talk, and I would like to do it intact. And she said, we simply cannot allow that. And I said, if one of the kids asks me if I'm married, am I allowed to say that I have a wife? And she looked flustered and said, well, you know what I mean. And I said, I'm not sure that I didn't say this, but I was saying, I'm not sure you know what you mean. Right.

Because, you know, what I already knew, but it became very clear for me being there is how it's difficult for some people in this kind of community to distinguish between sexual orientation and sex. They're adults. I can't, what am I going to say that's going to change their mind on the dime like that? So I just said, I intend to do my talk intact, and she said, we really can't allow that.

And then I don't know, it was like a blur. I don't know how this happened, but we ended up walking down the hallway to the gym where the kids were. I mean, somehow I was allowed to go on, even though I had not agreed to omit the word. And I'm so glad that that happened because I gave my talk and I said gay and there was no one collapsed. The roof did not cave in. Locust did not swarm us.

It was fine. I always have a built-in Q&A at the end of my talks. It's on the schedule. I'm very mindful of my time. And so when I was done and the kids were applauding and we still had the five minutes left for questions. And the principal came and stood next to me. And I said on the mic, I said, we still have time for questions. And she said, actually, I'm so sorry we don't.

Oh, God. And I looked to the kids and said, y'all want questions? And they screamed yes. And their hands shot off. And they were super enthusiastic. So then she had to say to that very eager group, sorry, we're not doing it. And all, what I forgot to mention is when she pulled me aside before the talk, she said, just to be clear, we invited you here to inspire these kids about writing, reading, and research.

And I said, that's fully what I intend to do. And after she denied them questions, I was again furious. And the kids left. The next group that was supposed to come in did not come in. And I was told that there was a slight glitch in the schedule. And then I was alone in the gym with the principal and the director of communications from the district who had come for that second talk. First thing the principal said to me was, we need to remind you not to say the word gay. And I said to her, you just saw how the kids reacted to this story.

that's your first comment, which was a little obnoxious, I admit, but still. And she said, oh, no, I'm sorry. It was a fantastic talk. Thank you so much. But we do have to remind you to stick to the standards. And I said, well, I've already said that I can't do that. And then the director of communications said, well, it's about appropriateness. I mean, we wouldn't describe the horrors of the Holocaust to kindergarteners.

I mean, Andy, you're Jewish, right? Yes. So, I mean, not that you need to be Jewish. and you just need to be enlightened to, you know, shut that down. I said, please do not compare how one person loves another with genocide. My God. Yeah. I saw that quote in the New York Times and I just, my jaw unhinged like an alien.

Yeah. I just could not believe that a functioning adult human being made that comparison. And not only that, she said it to me privately and I told her why that's completely offensive and out of whack. And then she said it to the press. Right. I mean, so she obviously thinks it's fine. It's just unbelievable to me. And so the school district has canceled the rest of your appearances. Well, it was mutual. We talked for about 10 minutes. And, you know, it was civil. I mean, we were talking as adults, even though I did not, I could not abide by almost everything they were saying.

And eventually, I said, if you are not going to support me giving the full talk, which you just heard and saw how it went, then I cannot in good faith. do my second two talks. And they said, we agree. If you can't agree to leave out the word, then we would have to ask you to leave. And I said, then I'm leaving. And I went over to my bag and we all started to walk out. And I signed out. And as I left, I said, you are on the wrong side of history. And then I walked out. Wow. So where do you go from here? I assume not back to Forsyth County, Georgia, but you'll keep doing presentations, right? Yeah, I intend to. And frankly, I'd go back to Forsyth if they'd have me, and I hope that we get to that point. My mission is not to combat prejudice in school visits. I'm happy to do it if it's part of what comes out of my talk,

but my goal is to tell a great story and inspire the kids with research, writing, and reading. So I would love the opportunity to go back and start to help with some healing there and to help open some more minds, knowing that it wouldn't just be a walk in the park, because that's what this is really about. If there's a wedge driven in a community or if people are hurt, I don't think people who see the problem should avoid that community. I know some authors and other people that would not go to an intolerant community because they don't want to be contaminated by the toxicity. And I think I don't like it either, but we're not going to help people by staying away. So I hope that there's a way for me to go

back. And because I know that, you know, obviously not every educator, not every school agrees with this. And I was hoping that I could help one of these administrators, you know, see the light and step up and be the one to say, look, change starts here. I know this is going to, you know, my job may be at risk. It's going to, you know, rock the boat big time, but this needs to happen. That may still happen. I don't know. I could still be hopelessly naive, but I would be thrilled to go back. I think it would be a really nice, full circle moment. And I'm, it may not be now, but I hope at some point I can go back. Well, I hope so too. And it's such an inspiring story. And it's so funny when the stories first started trickling to like the national media, I saw it. And

I'm like, Mark Tyler Nolan, why do I know that name? And then I was like, oh, of course, Batman and Bill and Bill the Boy Wonder. And it's just an unbelievably fascinating story. And I am, I think, maybe more cynical than you. I don't see you going back to Forsythe County. But I hope I'm wrong. And I hope that you are right and that there may be an educator there will step up. Mark, thank you so much for joining us. It's just such a fascinating story. Thanks again. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. Andy Levy. Daniel Moody. Andy, how are we rounding out this good, good week with your fuck that guy? Oh, God. My fuck that guy is, boy, I just, I don't understand these people at all. Megan Kelly. Oh, God. I used to have a primetime show on Fox News.

She left there. She went to NBC, and that worked out real bad. And she left there. And now she has a show on Sirius XM Radio. fine, whatever. And she's become like one of the leading like sort of quote unquote anti-woke people. And by that I mean transphobic and all the other phobias and isms that go along with it. So this week she went on a show on Newsmax hosted by Eric Bowling, another former Foxer, in which he offered up the theory that Barack and Michelle Obama are the ones who are still really running this country.

and it's sort of a shadow puppet situation with the Biden White House. I'm not even clear if she herself was expressing this opinion or if she was saying that many people believe this, although this is a insane theory. I have personally never heard before she brought it up. And then she went on to say that conservatives don't like Michelle Obama because she doesn't like America. So, all right, last part first. That's not why they don't like Michelle Obama.

We know why they don't like Michelle Obama. Let's be honest here. It has a lot more to do with the color of her skin than the content of her character. Let's just put it like that. I don't know where this bizarre theory that the Obamas are running the country comes from, but it is flat out insane. And it just shows how far Megan Kelly has fallen. And I also want to point out that she's going on the show hosted by Eric Bowling, a former

Foxer. Eric Bowling was fired from Fox because he sent unsolicited dickpicks to his colleagues, who were also Megan Kelly's colleagues. And here she is appearing on his cable news show. And to me, for some reason, that's even worse than her dumbass theories, which are just so fucking ridiculous. I can't even get into them. But the fact, like, they made a movie in which she was sort of the star about the whole

Roger L's thing at Fox. And here she is now going on the show hosted by a guy who sent unsolicited dig picks, again, to women who were her colleagues. That to me is just so low and just shows a complete absence of character and of soul. So that to me is the main reason she is getting my fuck that guy for this glorious day. So, Megan Kelly. Santa was white. Right.

Don't say otherwise, Danielle. Correct. Megan Kelly. And let's be clear, she wasn't disgraced when she had a failed fucking show that displaced Tamerese. Tamron Hall on NBC because she left with about $70 million. Right. So whiteness rises again. Where does she get the Obama theory from?

Probably my dreams and the tears that I have. She's overheard your late-night prayers? Yeah, she's overheard me and Jesus. So, you know, God, she's just, she's so worthless. She's worthless. So good for you, Megan Kelly. Welcome to fuck that guy. So Danielle, close out this week for us.

Give us your unbelievably amazing fuck that guy. It's not hard. You don't really have to go dumpster diving on this show because this shit just is floating on the top, you know? But Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas, the father of smoky eyes, has just, I mean, I'm at a loss for words. So let me just use his instead.

This is what he says on his right wing television show. Quote, here's the problem. If these tactics end up working to keep Trump from winning or even running in 2024, it is going to be the last American election that will be decided by ballots rather than bullets. I just want to let that sink in for a minute. A former governor of a state in the United States of America just made a major threat on camera. distributed out to God knows how many people, saying that if the tactics, and by tactics he means,

the ability to prosecute a criminal without threat of civil war for holding Donald Trump to the same laws that everyone else follows in this country, that if he, by virtue of being found guilty of some or all of his 91 charges that he's facing and for indictments, if that happens, and he is removed, from the ballot or loses. If he is on the ballot, it'll be the last election decided without bullets. I mean, FBI, I'm going to pull a Trump. Is anyone listening?

It's anyone fucking listening. Because they are telling you, Donald Trump was asked by Tucker Carlson, do you think we're headed for a civil war? His response, well, there's passion. You know, like people have passion. You got this guy telling us that this is going to be the last election for ballots. Wake up. So for that reason, Huckabee, former governor that, you know, put his hand on a Bible and swore to protect,

democracy, the constitution, uphold it, is calling for violence. And we're just shrugging it off. So for that reason, he is my fuck that guy to end this Godforsaken week. Yeah. Also the father of a current governor. Yeah. Smoky eyes. Yeah.

You know, she grinds up the history, black history, and she uses it. She uses it to smoke her eyes. That's the smoke from the mines that she wants to send the kids to working. Yeah. There we go. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of The New Abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going.

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