The Daily Beast Podcast - How This Iconic Black Model Changed the Fashion Industry

Episode Date: November 19, 2023

Bethann Hardison broke barriers in the 1970s by appearing in the top fashion magazines. Her new documentary Invisible Beauty shows how she championed diversity for a new generation of Black models. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus edition of the new abnormal.

We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with the legendary Bethann Hardison, who's here to tell us about Invisible Beauty, the new documentary all about her career as a fashion model, agent, and activist. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some clips? Clips. Do it. All right. That's the enthusiasm I like to hear.

It'll be gone by the end. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. So one of the new reoccurring parts of the Republican Party and this show is they are really tearing each other apart. So this week, Kevin McCarthy hit Rep Tim Burchett in the kidneys during an interview. Jesus Christ. There's a lot of things that, you know, like each week we're like, wow, I can't believe I'm saying this. But I really can't believe I'm saying that.

So as these backbenchers like to do is the second they have a chance to get any attention, it's time to do all the media hits. So he ran to the world-class journalistic outfit Newsmax to spill the tea on Kevin McCarthy and let us sip. He also has $17 million in an account that he'll be messing in a lot of people like mine and Nancy Mason's campaigns, I'm sure. I don't know if he does that with Nancy May. She could come back at him with some stuff that he doesn't want out there in the public, I think, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah, she's already told me. She said, I hope he does that with me. And she'll take care of him.

She takes care of her own. But I, you know. I don't think I knew that. I don't think I knew that. God, you guys are not reading page six in Politico, apparently. I know. Sorry, so distracted with war. That's amazing.

This is why the producer, you're the talent. Oh, man. This is the kind of distraction tea I need. Yes. So you might remember Kevin McCarthy from, you know, basically ending the career of Representative René Emmer's after their affair. I forgot about that, too. God, I didn't know that Kevin was getting around the Maga Mary go around.

Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is how he likes to roll. This is great. I mean, we've got, he's already come out and said things about Matt Gates and just more of this. Like, destroy each other from within. I'm ready for the Republican burn book. Like, just burn this shit to the ground.

Do you know what I'm saying? Mean Girl style. Let's go. Yeah, can we just get like a real Congress member show on Bravo? Like a real housewife? Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking it's going to be a little more Jersey shore, though.

Yeah, that's a good point. Who's snuck? Oh, wait, I know who snuck he is. She's from Georgia, not New Jersey. All right. As we were saying, though, the girls were fighting in Congress this week. And this dust up between Dem rep Moskowitz and representative James Comer out of Bat Shick, Kentucky. We're going to listen to them here fighting over a Daily Beast story from Roger Selenberger on the congressional

for why i'm happy to yield you some of my time today mr chairman because i think you owe it to the american people to explain why you've gone on fox news and told people that while the president was out of office he he had a loan with his brother and in a way they were evading taxes it has come out in the public that you also do business with your brother with potential loans and so since you have framed that and manipulated that with the american people that joe biden did something wrong when he wasn't in office i just would like to know if you would like to use some of my time I would love. I would love it. Okay.

You retweeted that story. Completely false. I've never loaned my brother one penny. My father, who was a dentist, had some farmland. He died, and my brother couldn't afford. He wanted to sell it, but he wanted to keep it in the family. So I bought it from my brother. That story that you tweeted also said I had a shell company.

That is bullshit. you can come to Monroe County and look at all the land that is titled in that LLC. I think that the problem is, you know, they tried to get, the White House tried to get CNN to write that story. They went around and investigated all this bullshit that Ian Sams is trying to tell people that only dumb, financially illiterate people pick up on and said that it was a shell company. because it was an LLC. They're so financially illiterate that you think because something says LLC it's a shell company. This company, which I financially disclose, has properties, okay? It manages about over a thousand acres of

land for hunting purposes. It owns different properties. I'm one of the largest landowners in my home area. Okay? I went to the bank and I bought hard money and I bought that land. I didn't get wires from Romania, China. My family doesn't get wires. Okay? Never loaned my brother money. Don't have an LLC. But you and Goldman, who is Mr. Trust Fund, continue to try to reclaiming my time. No, I'm not going to give you your time back. We can stop the clock. You all continue to, you look like a smurf here just going around and all this. Mr. Chairman, you have, no, no, hold on if we're, if we're not on time, we use, you have gone on TV and said the president did something you do. You're doing stuff with your brother, the American people have the same questions.

Why should they believe you? Why should they believe you? There's a different rule for the president. There's a different rule for you. Why should they believe what you're saying, Mr. Chairman? Why? You go on Fox News and say loans and heels or ways to evade taxes. We don't know that's what you're.

doing or not we don't know we have no idea we're supposed to take your word for it but when the president says something you've already been proven a liar mr marskowitz what's that you've already been proven a liar who's proven me a liar you yes your word means nothing mr chairman go to my hometown there's a camera crew there today in opposition research crew there today tru mr chairman this seems to have gotten under your why is there a camera crew why does he Why was that the thing that he pulled out as like, you can go and talk to the camera crew? Why? Do you have one?

Oh, God, that was the stupidest fucking exchange I think I've ever heard. First of all, I guess we put, I guess we don't give a fuck anymore about decorum because bullshit is now in the congressional record as well as Smurf. So like we're not even in high school anymore. We're in elementary school and this is what people are being paid. six-figure salaries, by the way, to do. And the biggest landowner in your state, I would like an investigation into that.

Just saying. I'll just quote from Roger Sullenberger after this exchange who tweeted, I broke the Comer story. He's correct that it wasn't a loan. I never called it a loan. But Joe Biden's loan was repaid, canceled out no benefit.

Comer, however, enriched his brother 18 grand, attaching his holding LLC to the transaction. So the point is that Joe Biden got nothing from loaning his brother money except his brother repaid the money. James Comer somehow with all his connections and being the largest landowner in the state managed to make his brother richer. Fun times. I will say this, you know, Danielle, you mentioned high school. I would say that sounded like a high school fight, but in American high schools, we're not smart enough to teach what an LLC is versus a shell company. or financial literacy.

You're absolutely right because you know what? He would vote against that. Yep, yep, solid point as well. Now we get to the bad stuff. Jesse Waters, who in the past, this show has displayed a lot of sociopathic behavior in the clips we've played.

But as a dog dad, this one really is something. Here, Jesse is going to gleefully boast about his disdain for a dog he adopted. What do you think rookie would say about you? I know what rookie thinks he's hungry. And that's all he thinks about his food. And I want to say we ended up getting rid of the dog that we got.

Oh, my gosh. What do you mean? No, I think we have to level with the American people. Where's my dog? We had a, what kind of dog was it, a Bernadoodle? Yeah, it was a from the same litter as a judge. I have the sister. Don't say you've got rid.

Who got rid is a euphemism. For what? I'm not going to go there. I didn't see my dogs. No, my dogs. It didn't work out. You put it down. Didn't work out.

Didn't work out. It didn't work out. It's like I couldn't hate him more, but I do right now. Yeah. This should be, you know, one of those where people go. And you're surprised? Of course he did this. I walked by him taping his show last night because a studio, Danielle and I tape that sometimes is over on the same block.

And I looked at him after seeing this. And I was just like, I can't believe I have to. because this fucking part of failing the serial killer test is cruelty to animals. Oh, yeah. And like, there he is just bragging about it. Yeah. But this is who's influencing American minds. I know that sometimes he brings his mother on the show, but I honestly believe the man was hatched.

Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Okay, I got one last one for you, and this one's great because it's good. So here we have one of the more strange characters of Congress. one uh chiproy and if um i was the date of attenborough of congress i would talk about this specimen as saying he's indigenous to central texas and shares a common propensity towards suggesting bad shit but here he's going to actually shoot straight one thing i want my republican colleagues to give me one thing one that i can go campaign on and say we did one anybody's sitting in the complex

if you want to come down to the floor and come explain to me one material, meaningful, significant thing the Republican majority has done besides, well, I guess it's not as bad as the Democrats. I mean, he ain't wrong. Yeah. Like, I'm struggling with the 21 bills that they had. Like, what is that one thing? Yeah, I can't help him. I hope the DNC sent him at least an edible arrangement or a cracker barrel gift certificate for that.

He deserves a gift basket because that should be. an absolute ad that just plays on repeat. Wow. Because what have they done? I have no idea. They should actually just send him edibles. He represents Austin. He could get them really easily.

Okay, well, he sounds like that's true. I think maybe he should take some chill. Seems mad. He seems bad. Folks, I am very excited to welcome to the new abnormal for the very first. time, Bethann Hardison, who is starring in her new documentary, Invisible Beauty. She is an iconic fashion figure, model, agent, activist, change maker, innovator, and author. Bethann, I had the extreme pleasure of watching a screening of Invisible Beauty at the Ford Foundation where you gave

a talk back with the director and one of the producers. was in awe of the film as well as your entire career. My first question for you is, when you watched it, your documentary for the first time, like, were you in awe of all that you have done in the decades that you've been doing it to see it in that kind of short time frame in the film? Well, you know, it's interesting. When I first saw it, I saw the first four hours that Frederick had prepared in an edit because he had loved seven hours, had to get it down to four so he could at least show me and that overwhelmed me. And for the first four hours, I, for the first time, thought I became a believer in the film, in the process and also in my story. Because up until

doing it and while doing it, I never thought I had a story. I mean, I hear, you know, I know what I've done, but I didn't think it was, you know, storytelling. I mean, I think you could put it together. Once I saw all that was put together, yes, I did believe. And then I think, I think once we were in Sundance and that very first premier night, it became all 100% real. You know, I think unlike a lot of things with regard to politics, the politics of beauty and the politics of fashion are things that we readily see. We know when we see black faces on the cover of magazines, black and brown faces on runway shows. We know when different designers that are black or brown people of color are taking over as creative director at fashion houses. It is a huge deal. And we can't deny,

right, like in a lot of other industries and places, that discrimination doesn't play a role. Can you speak to your quest in the fashion world to bring diversity, equity, and inclusion into this industry at a time when we weren't even using that language the way that we readily use DENI now in so many ways? Well, the good news, I wasn't bringing anything into the industry. That's the good news, because otherwise I wouldn't have never wasted my time doing that. That's a lot of work. This was at least your job for me.

It was already existed. It wasn't something that it was like, I'm bringing it. And we don't do DEI. I mean, maybe the major corporations and luxury brands across the ocean have all that. Our industry, model industry that services the fashion industry of creative designers, and then other things in retail. It's never thought of as corporations like that. And we think having DEI people, we don't need that.

I grew up in a garment business, and believe you and me, I had a great ball in life and never had to think about the black and white of things and having people help manage how we see things in a racial way. This is something that's all more I hear it in my ear. And when I start to work with Gucci, that was the first time I recognized all of that more clearly because I didn't come up in it. Going to a company like that and being, that company being accused on the internet of doing something,

that made them contact, you know, once I was involved with them. I started hearing more of this and understanding why it was important. Others said to have someone of color work at a company. I don't really agree with that. I've never believed in DEI because I never had to experience it. I never was someone who lived amongst it. But to see what people think that means,

I was saying to Gucci, I listened to all that Gucci had done, way before that accusation. And believe you me, I'm thinking, you're only releasing the EI, you're doing the work. The company has to do the work, not the individual you hire. You know, that's fair. That is absolutely a fair point in terms of how we look and companies hold individuals responsible for carrying the weight of an entire industry. I think that when I watched, because I was a person that was like so many in love with

fashion, you know, in love with the whole idea of glamour. and beauty, but, you know, growing up and seeing Naomi Campbell, growing up and seeing Tyra and seeing these images of people who had melanin, who had style, who had swagger in a way that I had not seen before, and thinking about how you turned that not into just a moment, just into like a flare, but into a movement of inclusion. And so for you, as you watch, that as you build your modeling agency and as I was watching Invisible Beauty and I'm thinking, you know, you were just doing the work. You're like, these are the it people. They have something to offer. They're gorgeous. They have presence. Did it feel in the moment like it was like you were

climbing Everest or did it just feel like this is what needs to be done? This is what we should be doing. No, first of all, I had a white model agency. The models I had primarily were white kids. Did you know that? No, because in the film it was calling out all of the people of color. But if you looked at the film, you'll notice there are pictures of me sitting there talking to the models. They're all different versions of color. There's a moment. I'm sitting on a staircase. A bunch of girls are sitting on me of film.

Because my models, I made sure that I went into this industry with white models. Primarily. Then it was Latinos and blacks and a few Asian kids. It was integrated. So for me, I never had to climb Mount Everest to do any of this. It was already in the game. We were already doing that. It was already.

people who already had black models. When I started my model agency, I was someone who did do very well with models of color because I cared very much about that. And mostly other agencies that were like mine that were starting out like mine, like more boutique agencies, they didn't have any. Little by little when I started proving that those girls could work, and in the mid-80s, when the models of color start to work editorally, the change happened then.

That's when things changed. So once that started happening, other people wanted to get on that board. And that's why I saw the Black Girls Coalition. They weren't part of my company. Only a few of those girls that were in the Coalition belongs to Bethlehend Management. The rest were in other agencies. I did it because that was the reason to start the Molly,

Black Girls Coalition, was to celebrate the girls that they all were working. Nobody had done that before. We never saw that many girls. I mean, surely Helen Williams and a few other models in the back of the day did advertising, you know, because that was important. Black shone in advertising back in the day in the 60s and all.

But to have editorializing like that, as much as we were seeing, it was a lot. And I give a lot of credit to Regis Farnasse, who had started American Al, that pushed the Hearst Company as well as the Connolly NAS Company to embrace as well because he was having success at it. So for me, it was just normal what I was doing. I was just jockeying. Only when things start to change, I mean, I was a runway model that Calvin Klein started to put the girls that were prank girls on that runway,

which eliminated the fashion models that ran on the runway. And that was a whole different division. It changed. You start changing the game, just like Berlin Wall coming down, start changing the game. Just like everything, the industry is completely different than it was before. Does the industry, in a lot of ways, then just model, and I pun intended, what is actually happening in society? So you bring up, and you talked about this in the film as well, that when the Berlin Wall came down, there's this rush to go and find Eastern European looking models, and then that starts to fill the runways,

that there have been pushes, for instance, in terms of people going into varied refugee camps around the globe to try and find these new faces. And so is it just that the industry follows where society is already going, or is it a push and pull? Like we're trying to find something fresh as we see that new ground is breaking. Well, the interesting thing where you're saying that is that the unfortunate thing for the fashion industry is that popular culture became an influence. So that means the outside world. Because when you were loving fashion, as you say that you did, and you love seeing those

girls, in the end of the day, no outsiders came into the fashion industry. You had to be a marketer, a retailer, an advertiser, a buyer, a merchandiser. that's who was involved in. Nobody cared about this little, this little small island called, you know, the retail garment industry, apparel then later called very loudly fashion. No one cared about it because it was not their interest. Nobody knew. And we didn't let outsiders come into it. Eventually something happened like one of the designers started to invite maybe a celebrity and then it started. Next thing you know, this outside world, pop culture, start to really become an influence.

Little they start having, you know, people who are blinds. So I'm putting up front of the people who actually need to see the show, the people who need to buy the clothes, the people who need to write about the clothes. They're putting the blogger. It becomes an influence. Popular culture, outside influence has, to me, ruined the fashion industry. I'm glad you like it, though. But the end of the day, in the end of the truth, it's something that has changed. So, no, we will find, look, it was beautiful to find the Eastern European model for me in one way.

It was because I love the body alignment. I love that. That's true. the other way, it became like a trend that went on and became something that was detrimental. Now, if this is, now the word is that they're looking and cared for it. We don't need any more West African girls. We don't need any more models. You need to develop the models we have, but that's what happens.

So you've got to point that there's some sort of ability now for outsiders to influence the industry and they're doing it. And that's who it does really much influence the industry. As the world is enveloped in so much crises, in so much just trauma, and there are just things that are bad everywhere, I feel like people are starving for beauty and art and light, right, just to get through. What do you think, if there is any responsibility that this industry has in terms of ushering in light, and beauty, giving people something to desire. Is there any responsibility here in the fashion industry in this kind of climate of crisis, or do they just continue to do what it is that they have done? Is there a moment or a movement for anything bigger?

That's a very nice question. I like that one. You know why? Because it seems like we should all find a way to sort of like help heal our surrounding communities or others. But I don't know if it's responsibility. I think to be conscious, yes, to think about sustainability, absolutely. To think about things, stay in your neighborhood and see what you can heal in your own neighborhood.

And maybe it might really flourish and sort of like merge into the other waters and have influence as well. It's a very unsettling time because so much destruction is happening and so much war is happening. And so many people just without that, just cancer are dying, young people, people are just past. passing away. So it's all of that around you. I don't think an industry is responsible for that, but I do think that the industry has things that they need to take care of themselves any way that they can do within their industry. When I talk about sustainability, I do. When I talk about the model industry, I mean, you don't need to keep looking. They can't help it now. The horse is out the barn. There's no way, you can't change this anymore. There's no reason to go search for more

girls. You need to develop the girls you have and get rid of some. You have too many, and boys, and develop those careers. Give them a career. But you can't when you have a lot of models. You can't because you keep looking for the next. You keep looking for it. And it becomes like a trend. That's not really cool because then you start doing it that way. So what we can do to help others is just stay in your lane and do good for you and what we need to be responsible. And I'm sure it will peter into the rest because that's what happens.

Energy helps to help energy. What do you think about the energy of this moment and the fact that your film, you know, I know that it was years and years in the making because you had said, just like you did at the top, they didn't think that you had a story to tell. What does it mean for you for Invisible Beauty to be out now? And what are you hoping that people take from it, that they walk away holding on to? So the film that you saw the other night, thank you so much for seeing it. I'm so happy you loved it.

I made it in three and a half years. It wasn't long. The film that I was making before that, that was also called Invisible Beauty, was having a bumpy ride. You know, it was starred. I was working with a different director. and we set dormant for like five years at one point. So it wasn't like a long journey because I wasn't trying to tell my story. I was talking about I was doing an expose on the industry.

Right. Through the mouth of three other models. And I was trying to tell that story. When it came down to me being convinced that I should make it about me and me deciding to make it about me because it was easier story to tell, that happened and actually technically in 2019, we were good how we moved through it all and got it done. I think really now, when I look back at it and see the film, I'm so happy that many people, it was so well done in the film by listening to what everyone says.

It's a way, it's not typical documentary. There's so many wonderful things people say about it and they have to go back and look at it more than once because there's so much layered in there that they need to see again, which is really wonderful. What I really hope is that, you know, this is a legacy film. I hope that someone like yourself that when you used to look at pictures of, you know, Tire or. or Naomi, the young people who will always go back to seeing, can go someplace and see this film. I'm so proud that we had seven weeks in a movie theater. That's major for a documentary.

And I'm so happy to be on VOD right now so people can go out and see it and have it or see it in their homes and have to worry about going to a movie theater any longer. I think that for me, I hope that people just see it and walk away knowing something they didn't know before because so many people who know me for years didn't know that whole story.

But it's funny when you to put something together and tell a life. You could be surprised like writing a story for a book. You basically can tell and you can get to see it all. I think, I hope and I do hope that the film will land someplace in life. I'm going to make sure of that. That'll land in an institution somewhere that you can say, oh, you can see this film Invisible Beauty that came out about 20 years ago.

Yeah, I just, you know, I thank you for it. I thank you for your work. As I watched it and I closed out, you made me very excited for a, like life to age and to grow and to expand into all of these different versions, that it doesn't just stop at a particular age in a particular decade, that your energy just persists. And that was incredibly inspiring. So thank you.

I'm so happy to you say that because that is exactly what I guess you answered your own question. That's exactly what I want people to work. I'm going to write that down. No, I heard it. I'm going to write that down. I'm going to write it down. And that will be my answer for the next week because that's exactly right.

Because people do in the Q&A's. So many people, so many women say something similar to what you've said. And you put that very well. And I'm very happy for you at your time of life to recognize that, you know, it ain't nothing but a party. Absolutely. Amen. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having this conversation. Really appreciate you and making the time and thank you for your work. It's extraordinary. Thank you so much. Tell everybody about it. Oh, I will. I will. And everybody listening will go and see it.

So wonderful. Yeah, they can see it now. So now that it's on, you know, BOD, that's very wonderful. Amazing. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Shamis Calder.

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.