The Daily Beast Podcast - Huma Abedin Lived in ‘Anger & Bitterness’ Over Weiner Affair

Episode Date: November 14, 2021

Huma Abedin, former Vice-Chair of Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign for President as well as Deputy Chief of Staff during her time as Secretary of State and Anthony Weiner’s ex-wife, has had a front-row seat to some of the biggest, and most tragic, political stories in recent history. She joined Molly Jong-Fast on this bonus episode of The New Abnormal to talk about those experiences in detail as well as the stories in her new book Both/And: A Life in Many Worlds. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of the new abnormal. And we thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with Huma Abidon, who of course was the vice chair of Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign for president, as well as deputy chief of staff to her while she was U.S. Secretary of State. And of course, today she's going to talk to us about her book, Both End, A Life in Many Words. Welcome to the New Abnormal, Huma. Thank you for having me, Molly. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Well, I'm thrilled to have you, and like, I feel, like, I've, I don't know.

I feel even though we've never met and we've never talked, and Philippe didn't give me your email. So I had to, like, I was like, your Huma, who you worked with for a millionaires, and he was like, no. So I had to go through Simon & Schuster to get it, but I'm really glad that we got you on the podcast because I think that a lot of people who listen to this podcast want to know what you've been through. Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm so, I'm so happy that Philippe's name has come up. This might be the first interview. I think he's probably annoyed. It hasn't come up sooner. And the reality is like, there are some great Philippe stories in the book. He's a character. He is a character. So I will call him and ask him as soon as we hang up why he never gave you my email. Yes, you should. He may pick up the phone for you. I'm not sure he'd pick up the phone. Nope. No, right. It doesn't do it for me either. Yeah, okay, just check it. The thing I was thinking about a lot about was like Benghazi. Oh. You know, like, she testified for 11 hours. Republicans had six investigations, congressional investigations into Benghazi besides the FBI and the CIA. Why do you think that Democrats aren't, do, I mean, Trump plotted a coup.

Why is there no, I mean, why is there no equivalency? And also talk to me about what it was like preparing her for that and living through that. Well, you know, I, one of the reasons my book is called Both and is kind of living in both worlds, trying to navigate. I mean, in my case, it's the, you know, idea of living. I, you know, grew up in Saudi Arabia, came to this country for university and my parents taught us to love the world and different languages and cultures and traditions. And I think it, it gave me a perspective and an ability, I think, you know, at a perspective at the table that was valued by my colleagues. Benghazi, and you know, no one's asked me about Benghazi in my entire book drawer as I write in the book was one of the

most harrowing, shocking nights moments. And for me, one of the reasons it was many reasons it was so hard. I wasn't there. I wasn't even with my colleagues. I was experiencing this in New York. I was on maternity leave or I'd been back maternity leave, but I was living in New York. You know, look, they made clear. I quote in the book, of press conference that Kevin McCarthy, where he essentially admits that this was a political move. And, you know, I'm a Democrat. And I walked into the White House at 21 and 1996, not sure if I was a Democrat. I came from a family of mostly Republicans and just fell in love with the work and the cause and it felt like there were important things happening. So I happen to believe that those

of us on the Democratic side have these principles and values that they're not willing to budge on. And boy, did the Democrats in Congress at the time do everything they can to support Hillary, then Secretary of State and then post as Secretary of State? We are sometimes almost too polite, you know, too kind. And the other side just, you know, is not. And the Republican Party today isn't the Republican Party that I remember or talk about when I, you know, talk about the congressional delegations with John McCain and Lindsey Graham in the early 2000s. Yeah. It seems like it's all gotten much worse. to imagine it getting worse. I mean, you have McCarthy say, like, we did all these hearings

in order to ruin her. Exactly. See what happened. You know, we did these hearings and see what happened to her numbers. They're tanking. You know, they're falling. I mean, just full on said that this was their intention. And so it's why staying invigorated matters. It's why staying committed matters. It's really hard. I mean, I, you know, I've been asked in the last, you know, two weeks, what I think is happening, you know, to the two parties. And is there a way? that we can work together. And I just come from a school the way I was raised in politics is there is no other, in my opinion, there is no other way. You have to force. I was raised that way. My father, the way he raised me was to have conversations with the other, that the response isn't to not talk to each other or understand. I'm not sure you can change people's minds, but you can at least get to a place where you make decisions on behalf of the American people that will benefit them. Yeah. It's so beguiling. It seems like, to me, you took copious notes about everything that happened. Am I right? Actually, no. Really? Because the things you remember are just like, you know, everything. Molly, when I went on Colbert on last Monday night,

he's called the book, both and a life in many words, because it is many words. This book was actually longer. What I did was, I kept a diary when I was a little girl. So a lot of the, you know, the recollections that I make or scenes that I recreate in the book about growing up in Saudi Arabia about traveling letters between my parents. My parents were big letter writers. Those I had. The minute I walked into the White House in 1996, you know, the culture there was you did not keep diaries or personal notes. That's just not, that was not how federal government employees conducted themselves at the time. So I didn't. I didn't. Whatever I had, you know, was from official schedules, memories. Do you remember when this happened? Like when I lost her hanging bag in the, you know, East River on my first trip or waking

her and, you know, the leader of the free world up accidentally. I mean, these are just moments that are steered into my imagination because I was a 22-year-old, you know, young person at the, you know, riding on Air Force One and, you know, having this awe-inspiring experience and you don't forget those things. Then there are some things that I did write. I mean, a lot of the personal, terrible things that were happening to me, I wrote, you know, I would write those, like, during the 2016 campaign, during some of the challenges with Anthony. but a lot of it is just, you know, seared in my imagination.

Yeah, I mean, you did go through pretty much the work, you had sort of the worst professional experience and also the worst personal experience at the same time. I mean, that has to be just incredibly, I mean, I just can't even imagine how hard that must have been. Well, you know, writing, the book was therapy. I mean, I find, I found putting it all down, you know, vomiting on paper, as I called it, into my laptop.

And yes, you're right. I had, you know, miserable, personal and professional experiences at the same time. But I also had the most extraordinary. I mean, I look back, reflect on all the spaces and places and historic moments the last 20 years that I have witnessed. I mean, how many 25-year-olds, 24, 20-25-year-olds are called, you know, the Camp David Peace Talks, which as I, as happened with me when President Clinton asked me to join to help plan that, you know, that period of time. It was incredible. I mean, these were just so many pinch me moments. In fact, I just saw that Will Smith has a memoir that came out, I think, yesterday. And I write in the book the first time growing up in Saudi Arabia, the fresh prince of Beller was very popular. And the first time he walked into the White House at a state, some state fancy dinner. And he says, excuse me, I turned around and my mouth dropped opened and I was speechless. I couldn't even respond.

And I literally think he was asking me where the bathroom was. And Jada was next to him. And I'm like, uh, I mean, that it was the beginning. of my journey. And yeah, I have so much gratitude, Molly, for the good, all the, you know, the amazing things I've been able to participate in. And, you know, empathy and understanding for the terrible things that happened. I had to understand some of the terrible things that happened. It took me a long time. I lived in anger and bitterness and kind of devastation for a period of my life. And I'm not prepared to do that anymore. The thing that struck me through the book was that

you're very fond of them of Bill and Hillary. You know, there's a, you know, there's a lot of There's a whole chapter called Hillary Lange. And what I try to do in the entire throughout the book is I'm not telling stories, whether it's the Clintons, the Obamas, you know, the McCain's. I just, I try to show people. I try to take the reader along on this journey with me, on this right. This is what it was like behind the scenes. This is what was said on election night. This was what it was like going to refugee camps in Macedonia. I kind of just try to share. And absolutely, you know, when you join Hillary Land, it is a club that comes with lifetime membership and the support, the professional support, the personal support that I always felt, and I'm not the only one. There's a lot of us here. I'm actually in Los Angeles promoting the book and the number of Hillary Land members who showed up to attend my book event last night. This is just what you do. You show up for each other, you support each other. And it is a culture that comes from the top. Their generosity, they're making us feel like we are all part of a team. And frankly, Molly, given

that we're living in such a what feels to me in either or a world, having a community, having, you know, the way I was raised in Saudi Arabia, you call the Muslim community, the OMA. I went from that strong community in Saudi Arabia into this community in the White House and the Clinton White House that I never left, that I've always had. So yes, I am very fond of them and very grateful to them for allowing me to participate in history and serve my country. I feel like as someone who comes from a family of people who write about each other, nauseam. There is something nice about the fact that you have no desire to just burn your ships on the shore. Oh, I like that. Burn your ships on the shore. I don't. I don't have reason to. And I don't,

what I chose to do as I was sitting to write the book, I just, I chose to tell my full truth. And that is why everything is in there. And the good, the bad, the ugly, it's, it's in there. What are you going to do next? If you have any ideas, I don't. This is, I totally mess this up in one of my early interviews because there was originally an epilogue to this book in which I write about all the people who inspired me to write my book. And one of those people was Shonda Rimes, who encouraged me to write my story. And when she had her memoir, she said it was her year of saying yes. So I'm in my year of saying yes, but I don't know what I'm saying yes to yet. But I'm hoping to figure it out. I like being in this space of being open.

I feel like I was closed for so long and, you know, and trauma for so long. What happened to sort of what led that shift? I learned very painfully, particularly after the 2016 election, after Hillary lost, after the campaign had disbanded. And, you know, I was kind of, you know, quote unquote on my own in that, you know, Anthony was away. he was incarcerated for a period of time. I had 18 months of being a single parent. And boy, do I think single parents are heroes, she rose and they rose. It is hard to be a single parent in this country. And, you know, carrying the guilt of the election loss, not understanding Anthony's behavior, carrying so much anger and bitterness and resentment towards him for, you know, the devastation that his actions caused.

And I went to a very low place after the election and one day felt, you know, really, hopeless. That's the only word I can think of. And the moment I realized I was getting to a place I didn't recognize myself, said I needed help. And that's a combination of having faith. In my God, I was raised to Muslim. And for me, you know, Muslim prayer is essentially a meditation, stepping up, stepping back from the world and reflecting. I did a lot of that. But I also got professional help and therapy. I went through a process with Anthony, which is a very painful process that anyone who's been in our situation who's done it knows. But it was to, you know, work through the trauma, understand the full truth, and move on because the reality is, you know, Anthony is the

father of my child. We're going to be in each other's lives forever. And it's work. You know, we both do the work. He in particular does the work. But honestly, Mommy, sharing my truth, I was sick of people telling my story for me for so long and feeling like my history was being written by other people. And I wanted to reclaim it. Well, and I also think that as someone who, who, like, I grew up in a family full of alcoholics. I've been sober since I was 19. Like, there's an addiction component there to what happened, you know, with Anthony. So I feel like there's a sense in which, you know, that addiction is not the same as, I mean, it's, you know, there's some, you know, chemical issues, too.

Yeah. And, you know, Molly, I tried to, you know, walk a careful line here in that, you know, it is for Anthony to tell his story. I tried to write about it in the book. just as much as it affected me. I went from being a shocked wife in love, madly, desperately in love with her husband, carrying a child, not even 12 weeks pregnant, and responding to the news as somebody who didn't understand. I didn't understand. And I exerted, and I do exert so much control over myself and my life and certainly at my work and my job. I've always had control over what I'm doing. To have no control and to not understand. It took me a.

very long time. What I did understand after years is that somebody who has that much promise in their life, that much success, that much possibility to continue to, you know, do such damaging things, not just to oneself, but to their family, their child, you know, society. That is not behavior. That is not a state that one is controlling. And so there is, you know, something there. Even earlier today, I was actually doing an interview and the journalist looked at me in the eye and says, I just don't get it. And I said, well, then you're lucky because you have been untouched. You don't know somebody in your life, a friend, a partner, a parent, a child who is struggling with compulsions or behavior that you don't understand. And I envy you. I don't have the benefit

of being that person anymore. Yeah, I totally get it. I get that this is a problem that a lot of men have. And a lot of elected men, I mean, like, you know, in the state of New York, I mean, it's not so unusual. I mean, that's what I think is interesting about it is, like, Like, it's not that unusual and it's something we don't talk about, which is really weird. I agree. I'm curious, do you think you'll get more into politics again now? I haven't thought about it. I think if there was a candidate or somebody who asked for my help, certainly I would want to help them.

I want to help the Democratic Party. I want us to be successful. And I will be, you know, I think I'll be connected to Hillary Clinton for a extent. period of time, maybe the rest of my life, and I want to help her in whichever way. So it's not, it's not clear to me, but I think politics is always going to be in my life to some extent. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was great. Thank you, Molly. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics,

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