The Daily Beast Podcast - I Have Natalie Harp's 'Love Letters' to Trump

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles go inside the increasingly bizarre inner workings of Donald Trump’s presidency, beginning with Wolff’s extraordinary account of Natalie Harp’s deeply personal letters to Trump and the alarm they sparked among campaign staff and the Secret Service. They explore how Harp became one of the president’s closest gatekeepers, what her influence says about the people surrounding him, and why Trump’s White House remains driven by loyalty, proximity, and personal obsession. Then, as the war with Iran drags on without a clear endgame, Wolff and Coles turn to Pete Hegseth, his ever-present wife, and the mounting signs of dysfunction at the Pentagon before asking whether a presidency once defined by raw power is now slipping into something far more chaotic: outright farce. #ad If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without having to leave your couch: https://ForThePeople.com/ITH #ad Try QUO for free plus get 20% off your first 6 months at https://www.quo.com/BEAST. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I want to get back to that synergy. We shouldn't have to talk about work all the time, because I never want to bring you anything but joy. I'm sorry I lost my focus. You are all that matters to me. Thank you for being my guardian and my protector in this life. She's not acting like a subordinate. She is acting like a lover or someone in a personal relationship. That's what is confusing here and what's problematic and certainly problematic from the point of view of his professional staff,

which is why I am in possession of these letters, because they recognized, oh my God, this is a real problem. There wasn't recourse. She is there. She went into the White House. Two years later, she is still there, as one of the central people in the this presidency. Michael. Joanna. Michael. Joanna. Oh, so much to discuss.

Not least the letters from Natalie Hart that she sent to the president on their trip to Scotland. Also, what is happening with the memo of understanding? Its deadline has been and gone. We are in a complete headlock with Iran, and neither country can get out. seems. And as you say, is this the end of Trump? But headlock implies that someone has someone in a headlock. Who has some, who is the, in the superior position in this headlock? I fear because I never want to bet against America. And I love America. I love this

country and the opportunities it's afforded me. I think Iran has a, has America in a headlock here. I think this was the forever war that Donald Trump promised not to have and he's completely stuck. So he may be feeling rather relieved that Natalie Harper has taken the attention. What's your feeling about the United Kingdom in your own country? Would you like to give a little summation of your feelings about? I would, but I'm not going to do it right here because I'd rather talk about the helicopter pad and the half hour that the president in a headlock held currently by Iran, though it doesn't mean that like a good UFC fight, they can't reverse positions quickly. The half hour that the

president took to show people what's happening with the ballroom and, of course, his precious helicopter pad, which he tore up three weeks ago, but has since been rebuilt and is now on the White House lawn. He says the people who will be happiest are the pilots, the helicopter pilots, that have to land. And I'm sure it is more stable than landing on the lawn. But I think the person who was happiest yesterday possibly was the president, taking half an hour out of a grueling schedule where nothing is working to show reporters how impactful his physical legacy will be on the White House. And it's not really on the White House lawn. It has become the White House lawn. It's become the White House lawn. Okay. If you have to be,

haven't yet subscribe to the Daily Peace podcast. Now is your opportunity. If you're joining us for the first time, we go inside Donald Trump's head three times a week and Michael will tell you briefly why. Please press the subscription button and share this episode with your friends. You can discuss if we're right, if we're wrong, if I have an irritating accent, if Michael takes too long to say things sometimes. Over to you. Michael. You want me to tell you why we are in Donald Trump's head. We are in Donald Trump's head because everything in this White House is personal. So as we discuss, as we've discussed last week, as we continue to discuss this week, the great soap opera going on in the White House, the reason we are focusing on this is because it is all personal. It is all about Donald Trump. It is all, um, all comes from what Donald Trump is, I don't know what he had for breakfast this morning, what he has, what someone has whispered to him, Natalie Harp, perhaps.

And then that is what makes policy in this White House. That is what makes history in this White House. Whatever, whatever comes off of and off of Donald Trump's head out of, out of Donald Trump's mouth at any given moment. Okay, so this week has been the week, and we've discussed Donald Trump, the soap opera, and the spin-off series and how he thinks as an executive producer. And this week, the episodes have been all on Natalie Park.

One of his aides, who you have been writing about for three years, you revealed how concerned the Secret Service were about, her in your book All or Nothing, which chronicled the 24 campaign. And we have talked about her on the podcast, and we've written about her a lot on the Daily Beast over the last 18 months. She's really come to prominence this week because John Ossoff, the senator, the Democratic senator from Georgia, said that the president really didn't want to be doing any of the hard work of being a president. He wanted to fly around in his apparently unsafe, grift force-one luxury jet traveling with Natalie.

And the dam has burst on Natalie Hart, his ever-present aid. And there was a Democrat, a prominent Democrat, who took issue with Assov, I think, yesterday, right? David Axelrod, Obama's former advisor. And it was a kind of he had Axelrod had his panties in a twist because, and I was not exactly sure what Axelrod's point was, although he was very, he was very upset about John Ossoff, but why? Well, he was upset with John Ossov because he felt Natalie wasn't where the focus of Ossoff's attention. should be that it wasn't about Natalie, it was about Trump and they should keep the focus on affordability. You know, and I think that that's why, first thing, Axelrod obviously has been out

of this game for a long time, but I also think that's a profound misunderstanding of who Donald Trump is, what Donald Trump spans for, how people relate to Donald Trump, and how Donald Trump governs the nation. And I will go back to that. Everything is personal here. So clearly, you know, you can abstract this and talk about affordability, which is obviously a central and important issue. But that doesn't begin to explain how Donald Trump approaches affordability, which would be a central question as we come into the midterms. Can Donald Trump deal with affordability?

She has not been able to deal with. Can he deal with anything? And how does he deal with what he deals with? And partly that goes to the nature of who he is speaking to. And who he is speaking to more than anyone else is Natalie Harp. And you can say that she is just an aide and assistant. I think maybe her title is something like executive assistant. But she is the person overwhelmingly who spends

the most time with the President of the United States. So, Mr. Axelrod, you know, you've really missed the plot here. If your accountant said, I've never actually done taxes before, but I'm pretty good at math, you'd probably find someone who has. Because when something really matters, experience isn't a bonus. It's the whole point. That's why so many people turn to Morgan and Morgan, making it America's largest injury law firm. Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting for the people for over 35 years.

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To see if you have a case, you can go to for the people.com slash I-T-H. He's not only missed the plot, but he's also gone after the one Democrat that, seems to have emerged above all the others yet. And who knows if David Axelrod has a horse in the race for the Democrats in 28? But you think of how brilliantly John Ossoff billeted Jay Clayton with his line about, isn't it humiliating that you can't just say Donald Trump, lost the 2020 election and Jay Clayton was floundering like a fish without oxygen? And do fish is need oxygen?

was floundering like a fish out of water. And... I think you should just continue with this. Go... Go listen. I think viewers and listeners will understand what I'm saying, that he's floundering like a fish, Jay Clayton was, and also his brilliant...

It would be like a fish, maybe we're flapping like a fish on the dock. Thank you. Thank you. Flapping like a fish on the dog. Everybody saw it, Jay Clayton. And also his brilliant filleting of Pete Hegsa during the hearings. So to go after John Ossov, who's emerging as a real contender and someone who can bring a southern state just seems like it's such evidence of the civil war going on in the Democratic Party right now. But let's get back to Natalie Hart. But let me just say that Oswef is what he was also channeling. it's not just a democratic concern. He is channeling the concern of everyone in the White House. So this is one of those other things, one of those Trump things of things hiding in plain sight. Everybody knows this, that Donald Trump is in a bubble with this young woman.

And the people in the White House know it. They are concerned about it. They've consistently expressed concern about it to me, among others. And then also you can't see pictures of the president of the United States. You can't see literally almost one picture without Natalie Hart being in the frame. Well, and her brother has also come forward and said that she's, you know, unhealthily fixated on the president. She's obsessed about him. And, of course, we know that the Secret Service were very anxious about.

her presence and there now appears to be concerned that it took a year to get her security clearance. And we know that Maga's not happy with this, that Maga loves the First Lady, says the First Lady is a class act, and we've seen less of the First Lady. We repeatedly said she's the least visible First Lady of the century. Though this afternoon she is giving a press conference, which we can cover on Saturday if it's of any note. Well, let's talk. I mean, I think just to say she's the least visible is belies what's going on here. And I think more clearly she's abdicated the role of the First Lady of the United States.

She doesn't live in the White House. She actually may not have spent on night in the White House during this administration. She lives in New York. She concentrates on her own business interests, certainly not on the interests of the nation. And yet, I would point out, is supported by taxpayer dollars, including being followed around wherever she goes by the New York City Fire Department and an EMT crew. Why? Why? Because she's so hot. She's so hot, she's going to set fire to. You know, it's just, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, it seems somehow to trivialize this, but it is, it is hardly that. That's a lot of money spent to, to protect the First Lady of the United States, to anticipate the first lady of the First Lady of the United States, to make sure that she is safe at all times.

And if she is not really the first lady of the United States, at least not functioning as the first lady of the United States, why are we paying for this? We are the taxpayer. Her advisor, Mark, has said that her press conference this afternoon will be about an initiative she's doing with, I think, the group that's organizing the indie car races and they have made a special helmet for her, which has got to do. two of her initiatives on the helmet. One is Bebeth, which is my favorite, my favorite ungrammatical initiative of the First Lady, and then fostering the future, which is where she helps promote

fostering kids, which of course is a perfectly good, perfectly good initiative. You know, we should note that this is coming up just at the moment where there are some serious questions arising. Where is Melania? She's not in the White House. She's not. She's not. not in the role of First Lady. So she's kind of rushing down, I think, to claim her place. But then she will rush back. She won't stay overnight in her husband's White House. I'm sure she'll look very chic driving an indie car around with a driver.

Or perhaps she'll be in The Beast, which I think the Beast is going to take a door of the indie. at the indie site, so she'll be in the Beast, perhaps with the president. As you know, we have been auditing the First Lady's time at the Daily Beast, and she hasn't been at an official function for a month. She was last seen at the FIFA World Cup final with Barron, and before that, she was at the UFC fight. So I think she had three official outings during July, and we literally haven't seen her for a month. Well, let's take a little tour into what she is. is some of the things that she is dealing with, which is the fact say that her husband is distracted by not only affairs of state, but the attentions of a young woman.

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And you can see her. She looks very comfortable as if she's well and truly at home on a campaign plane. These are sent to me, these were taken by people within the campaign who believed that this, that her presence there was really strange. And that's why they're taking videos of theoretically one of their colleagues. Why are they doing this? Because it's noteworthy. And then they're passed to people in the press, including me. They reveal a young woman, perhaps emotionally younger than you would expect from a presidential aid,

unburdening herself, I think, with him. asking for his forgiveness when she wasn't 100% focused on him. And as we've discussed before, I mean, it's a kind of a trad wife thing where it has that feel to it of a unique and kind of utter submissiveness. So, Michael, how did you get these letters? Natalie Harp was an issue during the campaign. among the Trump staffers, which of great concern to them, of almost all of them. All of the staff, the aides around Donald Trump, knew that he was spending too much time

with Natalie Harp, that she, that her influence was growing and it was influenced based on nothing at all. She had no experience, certainly none, none in politics or policy. but she was becoming the person that he was listening to, and she was the person who was keeping other people away from the then candidate. And this got more extreme as the campaign went on. She became the gatekeeper to the former president of the United States, soon to become the next president.

of the United States. Congressional leaders, press, everybody had to go through Natalie Harp. And it was like, who is this person? Where did she come from? What is her function? What is her purpose? Why are we talking to Natalie Harp? And there began to be a kind of revolt. It was, by the way, an unsuccessful revolt, but a revolt nevertheless. And they began to talk to, people on staff began to talk to reporters, including me. And this was when these letters were passed to me. And these letters which had been Natalie Harp's, what she did as the Natalie Harp, the human printer, would print out all kinds of documents, notes, emails for the president.

And into this stack of papers, she would insert these. love letters, which were discovered by members of the staff and then passed around, actually photographed. We have the, and that's what I sent you this morning, photographs of these letters that Natalie Harp wrote to the president. And they're kind of extraordinary. I mean, they're certainly not professional. They are the letters of someone who's obviously loved.

I can't think of any other word for this. They're also quite long. I wouldn't have thought that Donald Trump would have the patience to read a love letter this long. Well, we don't know what Donald Trump has read or not read, but we do know that these are the letters that have been written to him by Natalie Harp. This is a window into Natalie Harp's head. We don't know what Donald Trump's.

We don't know what is in Donald Trump's head about Natalie Harp, except that he spends all of his time with her. But it is perfectly possible he regards her as he regards most people as fungible. And she is just there holding his coat. And that's fine. We don't know. But we do know that she is there all the time and that she is hopelessly in love with Donald Trump. Okay, so I'm going to read a little bit from her letter and it appears that they've been on the golf course. They've been in Scotland and she says, I always knew coming home to my roots would be enlightening,

but I had no idea how much. For the first time in, I don't know how long, you forced me to unplug. We could be out on the course with no machines and even forget what time it was. I didn't have to be human printer. I could get time to enjoy good conversation and still get all my work done at the end of the day. In fact, I even had time to take long morning and evening walks to enjoy each sunrise and sunset, though I did forget to eat and sleep. With so much thinking time, I confess it did have a slightly negative effect at times

that I know you picked up on, that the end result, I believe, will be worth it. I had no idea how rapidly I was approaching burnout and starting to envy those whose only job seems to be to talk with you and look pretty. I want that job. So many times I'm just trying to stay afloat with all that's coming in for you. I look like a hunchback who didn't have time to freshen up brackets. At least you know what I should look like, close brackets. Plus, I miss the days when you used to call during my talk show days and we talk about everything and nothing. I want to get back to that synergy. We shouldn't have to talk about work all the time. What do you think she means when she says, I look like a hunchback who didn't have time to freshen up? At least you know

what I should look like. I'm not even going to guess of that. Thank you. She goes on to say, I've always felt like an in-betweener, somewhere between staff and those you enjoy talking to on the plane or at dinner, because that's who I used to be with you. When I was a talk show host, brackets as much as I hated that actual job, closed brackets, I wish I could hear every conversation because that's when you're having a good time, getting away from it all at least for a few moments. So understand what has this progression here. She comes into the campaign as a go-fetch it girl, becomes this human printer which gives her enormous, enormous authority because she is the main information.

conduit to Donald Trump. He needs things printed out. And through that, she begins to exert a really curious kind of influence because he's influenced by the last piece of the last thing he has seen, the last bit of praise, the last bit of somebody saying something negative about him. and then she begins to assume this responsibility for the people who get to Donald Trump. And then she moves into this situation in which she is as close to him as anyone else. And this becomes a kind of physical, strategic thing with her, of staying, of maintaining that kind of proximity. I mean, we talked last week about that the staff is trying to cut her out, and she is tenaciously not only staying in, but even getting closer. So they don't give her a room at Bedminster during the 2023 summer when the campaign moves north from Florida.

And instead, but she arranges a room in the maids quarters, but that's not close enough. so she moves to the women's locker room and sleeps there the whole summer because it is closer to Donald Trump. Well, he wants loyalty around him and she's deeply loyal, clearly. There's also a little bit more of that letter. But after going through all this self-analysis, my conclusion, I need to reunite my past self with my current into a better version who will make you proud. And please, when I fail, will you tell me, you have the absolute right to cuss me in. out if need be when I deserve it because no one knows or cares about me more. Thank you for always being there for me. I'll never forget when you made that promise to me after

losing my dad and I know how happy he is right now that I did get to go to Scotland and Ireland, as he always wanted that for me. To modify a classic, I could not have parted with you to anyone less worthy. And I will add, it is I who is unworthy. Always. Natalie. I simply don't believe Donald Trump could have gotten to the bottom of the letter. I think he would have sort of skim read it, as you say, I skim things, and moved swiftly on, or possibly patted her on the head. Yeah, well, I think patted her on the head or actually in the, within the campaign, they joked about him patting her somewhere else, has, as, has the, has, has, Patting her on the arm, you mean?

Yes. Well, has the boss been spanking Natalie? Is that what they would say? Has the boss been spanking? Yes. No, everyone was aware. This was upfront, the strangeness of this relationship, the strangeness of her submissiveness to him.

And because it actually put everyone else into, everyone else who has to be submissive to the president seem not submissive enough because. of because of how extreme her submissiveness was. They're submitting each other. But this was, and this went on from the campaign. I mean, she succeeded. She went into the White House with, and as you point out, without security clearance, but with a desk right outside of the Oval Office.

So she is always in sight of, of, of, the president of the United States. He moves, she moves. I don't, I mean, I think that that's, that was her whole strategy. Never lose, never, never, never take her eyes off of Donald Trump. And, I mean, I showed you also some photographs of, of her, of her, which were taken by other staff members who were kind of amazed by the way she looks. at Donald Trump. Well, the second letter that you have is also fascinating because it's the intricacies of it. So I'm going to read the first bit of the first paragraph.

I'm sorry, I thought I was the only one left behind last night and I had no idea Margot's car was also pulled over and sent back to the airport. Since I was alone in the van outside customs without my passport, I panicked. And I should have just called Secret Service instead. of you. I'm also sorry if I was an embarrassment walking the course in Scotland. The first day I was told there were no carts and people walked, which is why I walked. I mean, again, this incredible amount of detail. I'm sure Donald Trump couldn't be less interested in. Just a little background there. That was the moment when they took her cart away. Because again, the staff is

trying to separate her, get some distance between her and the candidate. And suddenly she's not only walking the course behind him, but in fact running. And there is actually video of her running after his golf cart carrying the portable printer. There's also a detail here. The first day I was told there were no carts and people walked, which is why I walked. The second day I was specifically asked by, I forget who his name was, but one of the main people who worked there, if I could continue walking and tell any other girls who would head out there to do the same, to spare the course any more carts.

If there is anything else I have done to cause you trouble, please forgive me. I know that some people have said I haven't been texting them back. And there have been some international cell issues. John was having technical issues on the plane too. So ask me to help him out. I mean, what I find so interesting is getting the insight into the specifics of the campaign and the irritation of not getting your cell phone to work, you know, when you're abroad or you're traveling with the president and trying to be on top of things.

I haven't been myself dwelling on the past and the pain of losing my dad, and I started letting the remarks of people who haven't bothered me before get to me, not because I care what other think, but because I see myself being lowered in your eyes and good opinion. That is the fear, you see, because I never want to bring you anything but joy. I'm sorry I lost my focus. You are all that matters to me. Thank you for being my guardian and my protector in this life. That's what I wanted to use this card for. When you saw me at the first, cash register and once again did what you didn't have to do and gifted me with mementos of this trip of a lifetime. A coming of age, I will return a better person. I have to sign off

now as the cars are leaving. See you soon with all my heart. Natalie. So just the extraordinary nature of an aid and theoretically a lower level aid writing this kind of heartfelt letter. to the candidate, a man running to be the president of the United States. This is what would be? This is all wrong. Is it all wrong? I mean, I think I mentioned on Tuesday's podcast. I'm reading Robert Harris this novel at the moment, which is about Herbert Asquith, the British Prime Minister who leads Britain into the First World War.

He is 60 and is having a passionate letter affair with a woman who's in her mid-20s, Venetia Stanley. And because of historical records, she kept all the letters he wrote for, 550 of them. And they are immensely intimate sort of, you know, my darling, you can't imagine the pressure I'm under. Only the thought of seeing you at the weekend keeps me alive. You know, I've got another telegram from the Russian ambassador. The Belgians are being brave and holding back the Germans, but they're not going to be effective. My darling, when can I see you? So I wonder if this is just people in power, you know, having a relationship with someone

that either distracts them or... Stop here, because first thing, this is a subordinate. This is not someone, someone, not a person. Right, but if you're the president. No, very important here. This is not a personal relationship. This should not be a personal relationship. Is not a personal relationship.

She is a subordinate at working in a campaign of someone running for the presidency of the United States. I mean, that idea of a subordinate acting as though she's not a subordinate, acting like she's the girlfriend, and maybe she is. We don't know that and I do not think that in any kind of, in any kind of conventional terms that she is his girlfriend, but she clearly wants that. She clearly is acting like that. So this becomes weird, to say the least.

And everybody's subordinate to the president. This is weird and it is within the confines of a of an office environment upsetting, destabilizing to so many else. This is, at the very, very least, really, really bad management on the part of Donald Trump. Right. I mean, what's interesting also is the letters are incredibly fluent, and you think of both Ivana and Melania, who were both Eastern European immigrants to America. and have big accents and I don't know how fluent they were writing and nowadays I would

be able to help with that but this letter is very it's very articulate it puts her I mean it puts her center of it but but trying to please him so she's not pretending she's not subordinate to him if anything she's professing how subordinate she is but yeah no no no but you're you're missing that you're you're you're you're you're up to concepts, the concept of submissiveness and a subordinate. Those are different things. A subordinate is in a professional context. No, no, I get that. I get that. But everybody is not like, no, but she is not. That's the point. She's not acting like that. She's not acting like a subordinate. She is acting like a lover or a, you know, someone in a personal

relationship. That's what is confusing here and what's problematic and certainly problematic from the point of view of his professional staff, which is why I am in possession of these letters, because they recognized, oh, my God, this is a real problem. And then these letters were also passed to the Secret Service. And they immediately saw, oh, my God, this is a problem. I mean, this is, we are out of, the relationship here is not a relationship that should exist in a professional setting and certainly in a professional setting with someone who has been and may well be again the president of the United States. This ain't normal.

Well, normally it would also, you would think, be something that the Secret Service or his staff would be worried about because it would, make him vulnerable to blackmail? Well, for whatever reasons, I mean, I think it makes him vulnerable to bad advice more directly. And it makes it difficult for other people to do their job. And he's essentially said, you know, he's essentially disrupted the management structure in a way that everybody finds uncomfortable, confusing and counterproductive, no doubt. So that's what's going on here.

But because he is running the candidate, running for president and then the president, he's in charge. So there is really no recourse. And there wasn't recourse. She is there. She went into the White House. Two years later, she is still there as one of the central people in this presidency. I wonder if Marjorie Taylor Green said that Natalie would send a note back saying printed if she had managed to get whatever missive Marjorie Taylor Green wanted to get in front of the president

and he'd actually read it or acknowledged it. I wonder if Natalie sent herself notes when she managed to smuggle one of her love notes into the pack just saying printed because she would see him reading it. I suppose, perhaps they discussed her letters. Anyway, they're articulate, interesting letters, and they do, as you say, seem very abnormal. No, I would say that there's a flag here. These letters are a red flag. And they were treated like that by people around the president. Not that that really changed anything at all. And I know that, you know, he brushed off everyone's concern, including the concern of his own son. and he brushed it off by saying, oh, she just loves her president.

Well, Eric Trump yesterday came out with a full throated endorsement of Natalie Hart, saying that she's very hardworking and a very loyal aid to his father. Yes, and I know that that is, in fact, was not the case during the campaign. During the campaign, it was, he was concerned. He was like, who is this person? Why am I hearing from her? Well, I wonder what Natalie's advice is to the president on Iran. Well, it's certainly not good advice.

Do you think she advised him to go to war? I mean, we know that she was in Food Truck 1, as you executive editor refers to it. So she was in there with Donald Trump and with Pete Hexeth. So she understands the implications of the war on. on Trump? Does she understand the implications of the war? It would seem like nobody quite understands the implications of the war, at least from a or not the implications that exceed the next 24 hours.

Because, I mean, that's the way that this has gone. You don't know. There is, there appears to be no strategy, no coordination, no endgame, certainly. it all exists as so much what Donald Trump does in the moment, what will happen today, which obviously the Iranians understand and are playing. Nothing will happen today. We're not going to do anything. We're going to let you stew and we are going to just wait this out.

So the memo of understanding so carefully crafted and overseen by J.D. Vance and Steve Wiccoff and Jared Kushner with a 60-day sort of cool-off period, the 60-day deadline has come and gone. And the memo of understanding seems to have just been blown away. Well, let me just remind you and everybody that this is not the first deadline. I mean, there have been a series of deadlines. I mean, in fact, I think that that is the fourth or fifth firm deadline in which if conditions were not met, then we were going, either going back to war or we were going to open, bring our ships into the strait of Hormuz to open it, or all kinds of threats. As a matter of fact, we're now on, we're

we've gone into, as of yesterday, new economic threats. And I think this was from the Treasury Secretary who was threatening more economic threats than have ever been leveled against. Although more economic sanctions that have ever been leveled, have already been leveled against the Iranians, I mean, for many years now, in fact. Well, the Iranians know this is an unpopular war in America. They know President Trump has the midterms approaching and they know that they can just hold out, or it appears that they can just hold out as long as they have money to pay

the Revolutionary Guard. Well, I guess they hope that they, well, the money to pay the Revolutionary Guard will come out of the backs of the ordinary Iranians who don't have food and don't have electricity and have less and less of basically everything. I wonder if Natalie Hart could get together with Mrs. Hegsef and they could figure out the war together because there was an interesting piece in the New York Times by Elizabeth Bumiller this week talking about the unusual role

that Mrs. Hegzef has at her husband's side. Jenny Hegsef met. They met each other when they were at Fox together. she was a TV producer. And she is ever present. She was his producer. She was his producer until she got moved after what sounds like a very lively Christmas party where her husband turned up.

And apparently Pete Higgsath got very annoyed at the presence of her husband. Anyway, she's now sort of omnipresent at the Pentagon. and giving opinions and remaining very close to him. And he's basically saying that she and Jesus, the two Jays, were his salvation after his period of heavy drinking and two marriages that went wrong. They have seven children between them, though three of them live with Pete's ex-wives, one of his ex-wives. And she is omnipresent in the Pentagon. And this is, again, very unusual. This is not normal to have a spouse as closely involved with such a senior cabinet position.

I'm surprised she's not in cabinet meetings, actually, but perhaps she's outside the door waiting with a warm towel and a cup of something non-alcoholic for Pete when he staggers out of those three-hour epic love fest with the president. Well, so what do you think this actually is going on here, that Pete Hegseth needs this kind of support, that this is really his wife who is engineering this career. Let's just parse this a minute. What does it mean when a spouse takes on a central role in the other spouse's career? I think it means the other spouse is broken.

And the producer in her understands how to put on a performance as if everything is just going hunky dory and probably understands that Donald Trump is the person that her husband needs to perform. Yeah, and it's not only, remember, a producer not only makes things, you know, produces a nice picture, but a producer is that kind of person who is incredibly detail-oriented. the manager on the spot, the person who you can absolutely rely on for all logistical detail, for all details. So this is what he needs. And that would certainly fit the profile of a former, and let's put former in italics, alcoholic. Right. So do you think that's what's going on, that she's keeping. him sober. Yeah, and even that, I mean, I think that she's, she's tending to all of the things that

would, that he can't pay attention to because, you know, because he, you know, we're, we're only taking his word that he's sober. Well, it's also clear that he had a very bad Iraq in the way that a lot of people did. And he got hounded out of the two. veterans organizations that he ran? Well, then he was clearly drinking during that time. And we only know, you know, so he came into this job, remember swearing, if I get this job, if you confirm me, I'll stop drinking. Which has always seemed to me to be curious.

As though it were an easy step. Give me the job. I'll stop drinking. Give me one of the most complex jobs in the world running the American military. And it will be, I will stop drinking because even though I drink when I am stress and perhaps to deal with what arguably could be post-traumatic stress disorder from his days in the war, I will suddenly be fine. Even I drink, not just for those, I drink all of the time because I drink.

I am an alcoholic. Okay. Well, there's also that. Well, he claims that Jesus and Jenny saved his life, but Jenny cannot be far away at any time, it appears. It was a really interesting piece. No, I think that's true. And I think the implicated, you know, always the problem with the New York Times on these

kinds of things is that it gives you this, but then we don't go the extra step. This is strange. This is, this obviously raises greater. questions than just the curiosity of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of, of, the other spouse's job. I was surprised that she didn't stop him going out when he did that. And I, I've talked about this on the podcast before, but it was a detail that struck me as strange that he calls in all these journals from all over the world, uh, for a meeting to tell them off for

for facial hair and not being fit enough. and this again is part of his sort of whole fitness routine. And then he comes out to address them with a sippy cup, with a metal sippy cup. We have no idea what was in the cup. He said it was coffee, I think, and he sort of slams it down at one point. But I was like, who comes out and addresses the top brass of the American military, about the most disciplined people in the world, hopefully, and comes out with a coffee cup. It looked careless. It looked foolish. It looked like he couldn't let go of it like it was his binkie.

It was really strange. No, no, it is. And I've actually had this in various meetings that I've been in when people have come in to give a presentation or anything like that. Sometimes people have come in with a coffee cut. And I'm always kind of, kind of staggered. But I will, on the other hand, And Boris Johnson, when he was at Oxford, was famous for in debates, by he would, in a debate, he would have a cup of something. And people would focus on it because, you know, he was, he did a lot of gesticulating. And the liquid in the cup would never go over the rim. And he became, that became a famous Johnson technique for holding people's attention.

Interesting. I remember seeing Johnson doing a debate once at the Oxford Union. He was so good. It was possibly his best, his best moments, really, as a student debater. That's really perhaps what he should have remained as. Well, we can't forever remain a student debater. No, we can. But it was Boris's final moment.

But I will also say that you and I used to work with someone who always had a Coke can. And I just thought, oh, Americans, why can't they let go of this sugary drink? But of course, we then discovered at a much later date that it was actually full of vodka. I think he rang and explained that to me. And I did notice that he would fall asleep in meetings occasionally. And I never put the two together. I mean, you would never fall asleep if you had a can of Coke. because Cope keeps you awake.

Well, anyway. Anyway, we digress. We digress, but this is one of a podcast. Yes, we don't know what was in Pete Higgs's cup. But we do know that he's under incredible stress with a war that's spinning out of control. He's got the USS Lincoln being swapped for the USS Washington because the families of sailors aboard the Lincoln are furious with what they see as low rations, bad mental health. a bathroom system that's not working. And then Donald Trump saying that he wants to change electromagnetic catapults on the plane

and revert back to steam catapults. And he wants to reorganize the ships. You've actually conflated two things there. Because more importantly, with respect to all these guys on this aircraft carrier who are not getting of supplies is that Donald Trump has said, well, they should stay out longer. They should work harder. So he's not only shown none an ounce of sympathy to what is going on there, but probably a complete lack of understanding of what's going on there.

And we should also note that the reason this aircraft carrier is in extremis is that the Iranians have taken out the central resupply base in the region. In Bahrain. Yeah. In Bahrain. So it's been much more difficult for them to get supplies. So this is, you know, again, again, with Donald Trump saying, you know, they're at the end, they can, they're, the war is won, whatever, whatever he says at any given moments, they

have managed to do extreme damage to the American military presence in the region. Well, the good news is he's going off to have a visit with King John Un, off of North Korea. Unbelievable. It is as though he's playing this old card. And you remember, this card was from the first administration in which he, he He threatened the North Koreans and Kim Jong-ung with Fire and Fury, which gave me the title of my first book about the Trump presidency, and then was able somehow to make friends, or at least what he thought was a friendship with Kim Jong-ung. Of course, in that context, the original threat had to do with the North Koreans nuclear capability. But that capability has only during the friendship of Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump expanded significantly.

Well, and did we talk on Tuesday about the diss to the South? Koreans? We did not. But yeah, that is also. So we're at this stage, too, where he is effectively looking for to blame anyone for the Iranian fiasco. He's blaming the South Koreans because they decline to come to the aid of Donald Trump in the midst of this fiasco.

He's threatening the good people of all. Oman, to go to war with them because he's unhappy with their support in the war in Iran. So again, we're back to that issue, which is, it's kind of really hard to, to, to be vivid enough about that, that everything seems random here. Everything is flailing out. Everything is, everything is, what am I going to do today? What am I going to do? I'm going to do this today and I'm going to do something different tomorrow. So is this the worst managed war in the history of warfare? I think that's the kind of question we have, I think it begins to be reasonable to ask. And there have been a lot of very poorly managed wars in history.

Well, you know who's having a bad campaign? Darlene Graham. Jesus. Poor Darlene Graham. I felt bad for her. She's just lost her brother unexpectedly. She very quickly accepts the honor of being able to serve in the U.S. Senate. She doesn't quite win enough votes to avoid a runoff to be.

to stand as, you know, Republican candidate for the actual election to be senator. She's already put in to replace Lindsay Rue January, but she actually has to stand for election because the seat is up in November, and she's up against a very Trumpy local candidate, Ralph Norman, who's been a congressperson there. Trump has endorsed her, but it turns out that she's a really very weak candidate indeed. Not only did she say that the population of South Carolina was 55 million, which is actually 10 times larger than it really is. So perhaps she misread the decimal point, which is easily done. But then when asked if Taiwan was a national security threat for the U.S., she fessed up that she wasn't an expert in national security. She actually said,

I'm not that informed about national security. So she should be from here on in, Darling, I'm not that informed, Graham. She did, however, say that her brother had been in the Air Force for 31 years and that she supported the military. So that's a comfort to military staff in South Carolina. At least she supports you. Yeah. And she, her brother was more accurately in the reserve.

Yes. More accurately. was in the reserve. And as Donald Trump said about him, never met a country he didn't want to bomb. So if she does get elected to replace him, she will. She'll have a very different set of priorities. She's a domestic person. No, I mean, it said, interesting, I'm not that informed.

I mean, Donald Trump could say that because Donald Trump is not that informed. I'm just saying that she's sad about her brother dying and she's been thrust into a position which is illiquid to handle right now. But I tell you what we do have. Well, let me ask you something. We've said many times that the Trump presidency is on its back heels. Is this the moment where it slips from incompetence into, frankly, fast? Well, I think that we're yes.

I mean, yeah. Yes. My answer is yes. We are seeing that I think that this is this slow-mo. but not that slow process in which nothing is going right. He can't do anything. He can't rescue himself. The kinds of things that were done in the first year, in the first year when everyone was kind of just awestruck at the powers he was assuming at the decisions, the executive of decisions that he was making, all of them turning out to be ill-considered, unfought out,

and that was what was so surprising about them and gave the sense of this power grab at a level that we have never seen before. But the problem is that those were ill-considered and unfought out and are now coming back to bite him. So he is stuck, trapped, and has no fucking idea what to do. Well, I think that can only be matched by some doggerel from our listeners and our viewers. We've got three excellent Limericks, one from Garfried, our Limerick Lerick, Garfied. With a printer she counted his gate till she wound up controlling the state.

She determines his feed, makes the powerful plead, while Melania spars with her faith. Okay, that's my favorite. Okay, that's pretty good, isn't it? So far. Then we've got Catherine, DR9FN. Harp writes daily her billet-doux, the president, Forta-Wu. With a portable printer in tow, she keeps his spirit to glow and prints out the praises he's adieu. And then our final one is from edits. When he stands before the all-knowing, it's time to reap all he's been sewing.

One thing's for sure, and he knows it to the core, there ain't no hearts where he's going. Very good. Very good, three very good limericks this week. If you have been, thank you for joining us. We'll be back on Saturday still inside Donald Trump's head. Michael never leaves it, but we also know that Michael is inside the president's head. And a big thank you to our production team, Brian Murray, John Romero, Rachel Pasa, Heather Pissaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.