The Daily Beast Podcast - I Went to Moms For Liberty’s 2024 Summit and It Was Dire

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

This week on The New Abnormal, Olivia Little, an investigative researcher at Media Matters, talks about her experience attending Moms for Liberty's annual Joyful Warrior Summit. Then, Dr. Reagan McDonald Mosley, CEO of Power to Decide, tells us about her organization’s efforts to advance sexual and reproductive wellbeing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. What an excellent show we have today. Dr. Reagan McDonald-Moseley, CEO of Power to Decide, tells us about her organization's efforts to advance sexual and reproductive well-being.

Then we'll talk to investigative researcher at Media Matters for America, Olivia Little, about her experience attending Moms for Liberty's new annual Joyful Warrior Summit. And she'll tell us all the weird messaging they're focusing on, why they seem to be failing at it. But first, let's have some fun. In the criminal justice system, Donald Trump is represented by two separate yet equally important groups, the lawyers who defend him and the judges who bend over backwards for him. These are their stories. Shames, if you could put in the law and order, bong, bong thing there. That'd be perfect. So over the weekend, Judge Merchant decided that he was going to push back the sentencing of Donald Trump until after the old. election. Originally, Trump was supposed to be sentenced. This is in the trial where he was found

guilty of 34 felony counts. He was originally supposed to be sentenced on September 18th, and now he has pushed that back until after the election. And the reason he gave, of course, was that he didn't want to be seen as affecting the election. And if you took a look at any of the coverage of his decision, or if you just used your common sense, you would know this is a huge victory for Trump, and that by supposedly not putting his fingers on the scale, Judge Murchin, in fact, tilted the scale in favor of Trump. Judge gives Trump a big legal victory. The delay is a significant victory for Donald Trump. Judge Murchin hands Trump a win. That's just three examples of how this was covered, and I have to say covered correctly, because that's exactly.

what Judge Merchant did here. And it is just unbelievable to me the amount of times that Donald Trump has been given special privileges and treated as America's special boy. And I am so, so over it. And there doesn't seem to be any end to it. And Judge Merchant, you know, God knows how many times he held back from holding Trump in contempt. And here we are again. And he's now pushing this back until after the election. And Danielle, I am over our criminal justice system. I mean, you can just play a series of beeps at this point that would censor all of the words that are about to come out of my mouth because I am so fucking over all of this. On one hand, you have Donald Trump and the Republican Party that complain all of the time about the liberal media, about the unfair treatment,

about this, about that. Oh, look at, you know, look at the way that we're being treated. It's terrible. this wouldn't happen to me if I, you know, if I wasn't so rich and so privileged and so white and so bup, blah, blah, blah, blah, I don't see anywhere in the course of Donald Trump's entire goddamn life in all of the legal cases that have been brought up against him for his criminality, for his grifting, for his fraud, for his sexual assault, for any of it, where Donald Trump has been treated like a regular American citizen. Never not one goddamn time. And the person that I am most angry with is one, Donald Trump, because he utilizes the law the same way that he utilizes a microphone, because he knows that he can get away with whatever it is that he wants because he has the money,

the wealth, the privilege, the whiteness in order to do it. Like, oh, Judge Moshan, I don't want to give an appearance that this is political. Bitch, the whole thing is political. The man decided to run for president of the United States and announce so that he can avoid prison. Any decisions that you're making outside of the fact that if this were somebody, else, would they have been sentenced? If this were somebody else with the amount of threats that they gave to this judge, the clerks, the family members of the judge, would that person be in jail? If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then everything that you're doing is political.

So I don't understand how these judges get away with the bending over backwards that they do to accommodate Donald Trump, because there is nothing that you can say to me that if it it were Andy, if it were me, if it's Jesse, if it's whomever. And we did any of these things. If a judge can say you would be treated differently, then you are not applying the law the way that the law is meant to be applied, which means that you are acting from a political perspective and not one that is based on the law. Plain and simple. At this point, I'm tired of the bullshit and I'm tired of like the gaslighting that we're being given that tells us that like everything is over. Okay. Nothing has been okay over the last nine years.

For sure. Both the media and the criminal justice system have just basically thrown up their hands in terms of any responsibility for doing their jobs when it comes to Trump. They have just completely abdicated their positions. And it's not the kind of thing. Like, I can't get used to it. I can't shrug my shoulders and just say, well, that's just the way it is because it shouldn't be. and it doesn't have to be. And we see time and time again this happening. We're taught, on the one hand, that nobody in America is above the law. And then, on the other hand, we look at actual practice, and we see the Supreme Court saying

that a president has immunity for all official acts, and we know exactly what president they're talking about. We see Judge Merchant pushing back sentencing. we see Judge Cannon dismissing a case where he so clearly is guilty. And to look at all of this and so much more, there is absolutely no way, I don't think, that you can look at all of that and shrug your shoulders. It is too damn dangerous. And we're seeing this in full effect now.

Look, I don't even, you know, you said on the one hand, one of the people you blame for this is Donald Trump, I don't even blame him for this. Like, he getting away with what people are letting him get a, away with. You know, that's not on him. That's on everyone letting him get away with this stuff. That's on, again, that's on the Supreme Court. That's on Judge Merchant. That's on Judge Cannon. And those people, the courts are supposed to be emblematic of equal justice before the law. And yes, we know that that's been a charade throughout all of American history, but they're not even pretending. Like, there's no pretense whatsoever. It's just every single

time. It's like poor Donald Trump, this small boy, we have to give him this special treatment. We have to treat him with kid gloves or his supporters might get violent. They already got violent. Right. Stop it. Stop it. Do your damn jobs. I can't, Daniel. I can't either. I think that the last thing that I'll say on this is just like the excuses that people give about this unequal treatment. Oh, maybe he's fearful for his family. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. Like, I'm over it. But But the thing that the media clearly is not over is really digging into the ways in which Donald Trump, his revenge, his rhetoric, his violent tone continues to escalate. But instead, are they covering that to the extent that it needs to be covering?

Are they raising alarms in that way? No, they're not. They're continuing to do what they've been doing, which is sanewashing, as Parka Malloy and other journalists have been using this term, which is, is to look at Donald Trump having completely incoherent off the wall ramblings, try with a flashlight and a magnifying glass to find a kernel of sanity in it and then make up their commentary and their writings on that kernel. If I see one more headline that said that Donald Trump gave an economic speech last week

or over the weekend, I will throw my computer out the window. There was no speech. there was no talk of economics except to utter the word economy. In that vein, then I'm an economist, right? Because I said so. It is wild to me that Donald Trump continues to talk about retribution, continues to talk about punishing his opponents. And according to corporate mainstream media outlets,

most of them are saying that Donald Trump is giving deep, you know, dives into his policy thinking and how he envisions America. to be under a second term. What are you listening to? Like, what are they reading? What are they seeing? Andy, are they listening to the same clips? Are they listening to the same things that we are? Because for the love of God, I don't understand. Yeah, look, I want a list of every journalist, whether they're a reporter or opinion writer, who talked about how Donald Trump was going to have a new tone after the shooting. And I want a list of all of them, and I want their journalism cards taken away. Because as you just said, if anything, he has only amped up the rhetoric. I think I do need to give a shout out to the Washington

Post's Philip Bump. He is one of the few journalists out there at a large mainstream news organization who is actually doing the work, who is actually writing pieces about the insane things Trump is saying. And he had a piece just today where he talked about what Trump said about immigrants in a speech in Wisconsin. He said, Trump said, in Colorado, immigrants are taking over. I mean, in Colorado, they're so brazen. They're taking over sections of the state. And, you know, getting them out will be a bloody story. Jesus Christ.

Oh, my God. There is no way to read that other than a call for violence and a call for violence against brown skin people. The fact that we are in probably a 50-50 election right now with a guy who uses words like this is scary enough. And for this to not be like, how is this not a huge headline in unbelievably big type in every newspaper across the country? It's just this is the kind of language that we saw. Again, I know I know for a long time we weren't supposed to make Nazi comparisons. and yes, I get that they can be very overdone. But I don't know how this language is really any different from Nazi rhetoric.

I don't see how this policy, a quote-unquote policy where he wants to deport 20 million immigrants, is not any different than Nazi policy rhetoric. And the fact that he is being treated, like you said, and Parker Molloy, who came up with it, it's such a great word, that the media is sanewashing him. And they do it in two ways. The one way is they take the gobbledygook, he says, and they clean up his language and reduce it to what they think he was actually talking about. But the other way they do it is they downplay the extreme rhetoric that he's using as sort of a, ah, that's just Trump being Trump. And it has to stop because all it's doing, it's emboldening him to go further and further and further with his language and with his so-called policy plans. and there's so few people out there in the political system and in the journalistic system

that are calling him out on it. I don't get it because I'm trying to understand. Joe Biden is old and has had a stuttering issue his entire life. Mainstream corporate media lambasted this man for a bad debate for any stumblings that he would make would be headline news every day all day for weeks. a time. Donald Trump calls for violence. Donald Trump talks about electric sharks. Donald Trump talks about Hannibal Lecter as if it's a real person. Donald Trump is cheering on a rally goer that climbs a scaffolding to physically assault the media and he calls it beautiful. These stories all

disappear into thin air. It's the same thing. It's two sides of the same coin or hell it's the same side of the same coin. When we talk about Judge Merchant bending over backwards to appear neutral, which in reality is a win for Trump, in the best case scenario, when you're talking about the press, they are doing these things to appear neutral. But what they're doing is bending over backwards for Trump. When Trump goes off on a 45-second little rant that includes Hannibal Lecter and God knows what else, and they clean that up by calling it immigration policy or whatever. That is helping Donald Trump. I'm not saying that's their goal.

I know there are people right now who think that the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. are acting like this straight up because they want Trump to win. I'm not willing to go there. I do think they are so focused on some view of neutrality that is absolutely warped. and if you want to be completely neutral, use his own words. Start printing his own words. Start printing actual transcriptions of what he says at rallies. That is neutral.

That's Donald Trump in his own words. Every time you don't do that, every time you clean up what he has said to make it more palatable and to make it sound more reasonable, you are not being neutral. And I don't know why in the world they think they are. just as I don't know why in the world Judge Merchant thinks he's being neutral. Meanwhile, because this is all along the same lines, it's all of a peace, it's all fascists being fascists, let's just call it what it is. There's a referendum on the ballot in Florida that will be voted on on Election Day this year

that will overturn Ron DeSantis's six-week abortion ban in that state. And it seems to be polling very well right now. It looks like there's a good chance it's going to win. So if you're Republicans, what do you do when it looks like you're going to lose? You cheat and you intimidate and you use the power of the police state. We talked about this in our last episode with Ken Paxton in Texas. And now we have Ron DeSantis, obviously the governor of Florida. His Department of State is making claims that we think there's fraud in the signature gathering process. There's no evidence of this whatsoever. So let's just start with that.

But now what we have is people who signed the petition are being contacted by people in the Florida government. They are saying that they're being visited by plainclothes police officers. One voter told the Tampa Bay Times that it was straight up intimidating and that that's what they were trying to do. So again, we talked about this last time with Paxton, but we need to bring it up again because this is obviously now, this is a pattern. This is a pattern of intimidation. This is a pattern of using the forces of the police state to intimidate people who have political views they don't like, who have political views that run counter to the administrations in the state. And it's all a preview of what's going to be going on federally, nationally, if Trump gets reelected. I mean, you know, here's the reality.

They are a mob, a violent mob. that is what the Republican Party is. They condone violence. They lift up violence. They use intimidation and threat tactics of authoritarian regimes that they applaud and celebrate on a regular basis. We are seeing this happen. We reported on it happening in Texas with the registration of Latinx voters down there

and having 80-year-old people's doors kicked open. And now, if you exercise your right, as a citizen, to sign on to ensure that a ballot measure gets added in the legal way and process. Because let me tell you something. On another show, I interviewed the people that were in charge of getting that ballot measure done and getting those signatures. I know that those people double and triple and quadruple check because they know what they're up against. And so for them to go through the painstaking task that is already hard enough to get a ballot measure approved, They don't want to hear from the people.

The Republican Party want people in their states just like they want women. Shut up. Be docile. Do what you're told. Be put in your place. We're going to legislate and think for you. And you follow along. Otherwise, you'll get what's coming to you.

And I'm just like, this is who these, because they cannot win on their principles. They cannot win on their values because a majority of people, whether it is in, Florida or in the country do not agree with them is do you want to live under intimidation and authoritarian and threatening regime or do you want the freedoms and the responsibilities that come with living inside of a democracy? It is wild to me the lengths that they are going to and it's terrifying and it's only going to get worse. Folks I am very excited to welcome to the new abnormal CEO of Power to Decide. Dr. Reagan McDonald-Moseley. I'm very excited to speak with you because I think that your organizations

work around empowering and lifting up HBCUs is something that is incredibly important. And I don't think that we see necessarily a lot of it happening as it pertains to reproductive health. And so I first wanted to give you the opportunity to talk to us about power to decide and why the focus on HBCUs and why it's important? Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to talk to you about our organization and the great work that we've launched on the campuses of five historically black colleges and universities.

Power to Decide is a nonprofit organization that works to advance sexual and reproductive well-being for all, and we really try to focus our work on those who face the greatest barriers to information and access. And that's in part why we are really excited to be doing this work on HBCU campuses because the reality is that nearly three quarters of HBCUs are located in states with banned or mostly banned abortion care and they're located in places that have very limited access to contraception and also have maternity deserts. So the needs are great around sexual and

reproductive health on these campuses and in these communities. How are you able to, I guess, we live in such a politically and legally precarious time as it pertains to reproductive health. health and access, just the bare minimum of having access to information is cause for litigation. And I'm wondering, how does power to decide go about navigating what has become a legal mindfield in a lot of ways in providing information and resources to HBCU students in these red states? Yeah. You know, there's been so much in terms of legal attacks on access specifically to abortion care and to some extent contraception care. It's important to remind folks that like, this is not controversial at all, right? Like, if you poll the American public, people are

hugely in favor of contraception access and increasingly also in favor of abortion access. And that is also the case irrespective of party lines that's increasingly becoming the case, right? And so I think it's despite what's going on with lawmakers, both at states and the federal level, it's important to remind folks that, like, most people understand that reproductive well-being is a core part and central to someone's overall well-being. That being said, you're right. it's crazy to think that in the year 2024, that access to abortion is very limited in almost half the country and that it more likely impacts black women because of sort of where the bans and restrictions are and more black women are more likely to live. And that in this year,

you know, there are 19 million women who need publicly funded family planning who live in contraceptive deserts, meaning they lack access to reasonable health centers offering the full range of contraceptive services. In a country of such great resources, we should be doing better to make sure that people have access to the information and services that they need to prioritize their sexual and reproductive well-being. So we're excited to be doing this work on the campuses of five historically black colleges and universities with ambassadors who are leading the charge and prioritizing information access and connecting people to care and services in their own communities. So talk to us about the roles of the student ambassadors and how you find them and what they do

inside of their communities. And also, I'm curious as to your thoughts on this current administration and what they have done given the decisions by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade and how confident you feel about the direction that the Harris Walls team would pick up from the Biden Harris teams in terms of trying to preserve reproductive health, but specifically looking at the reproductive health of black women in this country. which is one, woefully underfunded and also just horrific in terms of the maternal mortality rates. Right, exactly. So starting with your question about the work that we're doing, we're working on the campuses of five HBCUs, Florida A&M University, Tugalu College, Tuskegee University, University of the University of the Virgin Islands and Xavier University of Louisiana.

And we have two ambassadors at each of these universities, and we put out sort of a call for proposals, and there were these amazing applications, which included videos. And when I tell you, these young people blew me off my feet, looking at their applications and watching their videos. One of them in particular just talked about the history of HBCUs and being built on the radical premise of ensuring black people had access to higher education and using those principles to ensure that they have access to reproductive health information in the modern age was super compelling and really, really inspiring. So they're focusing on their campuses through social media, campus, community events, and distribution of resources to promote safer sex and advocacy on advancing sexual well-being for their communities

and particularly for the students on their campuses. And they've had a huge presence on social media with their at Beyond the Sheets HBCU platform. as well as on at power to decide for reaching young people on their campuses, but frankly, across the ecosystem of HBCUs, where the students are very active on social media. So we're super excited about that. In regards to your second question, yeah, the big one. The big one.

The big one. And sometimes people are like, Danielle, can you repeat that? You ask these compounded, weighty questions, but please go ahead. I'll say that it's a mixed bag, right? Like, I'm very excited for the work that the administration, has tried to do to advance where they can principles around sexual and reproductive health and their support of the Access to Contraception Act and just stating that it's important to

reinstate Roe. But I want to say that like Roe was never enough. Right. And so the focus on saying like we need to return Roe and reinstate Roe is like the basement because even in that scenario, there was only one abortion clinic in the entire state of Mississippi, right? But that's what led to the Dobbs case. That's not access. To have one clinic and entire state where the population is, of course, largely people of color as well. So we have to do a better job and aspire to more and not accept even just returning row, recognizing that today, there are people who are really struggling to get access to basic health services, including abortion, in states that have employed laws that are banning or restricted access to abortion.

What are some of the questions or some of the deep concerns that you're uncovering as you're on these college campuses? You know, I, at least, you know, went to college like a million moons ago. But I can remember, you know, going to like the health center, going to and, you know, and asking about information, whether it was about birth control, whether it was, you know, issues that come up and feeling like it was okay to do so. And I was at like a Catholic university. But there at that time didn't seem to be this kind of hushed tone about your reproductive

care or needs or issues. And I just wonder, like, what comes up? with these students these days and like, what are their, you know, their fears, their concerns, their desires, you know, as they're like navigating this really arduous world around them? Yeah. So I was really astounded to learn from one of our ambassadors that on their campus, they didn't even have access to free condoms. Oh, my. Yeah. So, you know, we're talking about very limited access to basic health services in many of these places. And that's why we're really excited to be able to partner with these ambassadors and think about how to deliver safe sex kits to students who need them in an anonymous way, to increase access to the things that people need. And we know this is critically important, right? Like there's tons of research that shows that an untimed pregnancy or a sexually transmitted infection can have huge impacts on someone's life, their ability to continue their education, their overall health and well-being and potentially their future fertility. So, you know, the stakes are high and our ambassadors are super motivated.

through their social media and campus events and resource distribution to make a huge impact on their campuses. You know, tell me about some of the numbers, because I think that sometimes stats get lost. Like I have had friends most recently, Black women, who just gave birth or new mothers because they wanted to be. You know, these are planned pregnancies. And their experiences in the hospitals that they were in, thank God they had really great insurance. And they were at, you know, renowned hospitals because while the pregnancy ended up smoothly, the delivery was not. And listening to my friends, I'm like, it's as if the people who are making the legislation think that babies are delivered by a stork. They really have no concrete understanding of

the danger that women can be in while giving birth. And so can you walk us through, I guess, some of the numbers, some of the stats that we need to be aware of, but particularly as it pertains to black women. Yeah, I'm so glad that you asked that. I mean, the reality is that in the United States, we have some of the highest rates of maternal mortality of any developed nation. And that is even more so true for black women, but that's true for everyone. Like, we're, we suck. We should be doing better. Our public health system and our health system is failing everyone. And the fact that, you know, we're not focusing on this more and expanding access to Medicaid and focusing on maternal health for everyone is a problem. But the reality is right, like access to care is unequal. And so this is

impacting black women even more so than everyone else. So like at baseline we suck for everyone. And black women are getting the short end of the stick, meaning that we are two to three times more likely to die from childbirth compared to our white peers. And this is unacceptable, right? And it's going to get worse. All of the data and the fancy statistician, told us if abortion is banned or restricted, this is going to get worse. And that is exactly what the statistics are starting to show and will continue to show, which makes sense, right? Because many of these places that were providing abortion care were also providing preconception care. They were also helping people who were having miscarriages. They were also diagnosing ectopic

pregnancies. They were diagnosing people who had hypertension early on in their pregnancy and referring them for care. They were providing sexually transmitted infection testing and treatment, like all of those things. And many of those places have closed or have. have not been able to maintain the same amount of availability and care for their populations. We are going to continue to see this exacerbation of the maternal mortality crisis. And black women are going to be disproportionately impacted until we start to prioritize the sexual and reproductive health and well-being of all people and really centering black women in the solutions.

I mean, when you say that it sucks, it's like it's an understatement. Because like I look at the numbers as it pertains to other countries or other quote unquote developed countries, other quote unquote wealthy nations. And they don't have this problem. And we have an outsized problem as it pertains to race and racism. But even overall, like you're saying, overall reproductive health care is not a problem in other developed countries. And so I'm just curious like, is it, I mean, is it religion? Is it our policy? Like, what is it? Because it's now over the last decade. or so that our politics have been so fraught, that they have been so volatile. But this is an issue that has predated the current present climate that we're in. So what is it that America

consistently gets wrong in terms of tackling reproductive health that other countries are doing right? Right. And it's like the million dollar question, right? And you are correct that this problem existed before and it is only going to get worse in the post-Obs era. I think a couple of things to say here. Like we are not great at health care in general, right, compared to other developed nations. The amount of money that we put into the health care system is not comparable to the outputs, right? And that is far worse when it comes to maternal health care because sexism is real. And it's far worse when it comes to the maternal health outcomes for black women because racism is a real problem in our country.

And again, this problem is going to get worse as we fail to expand Medicaid, as we have hospitals closing in places. that are already maternal health deserts as we continue to fight against, you know, thinking about innovative service delivery models like employing midwives and birth centers, as we, you know, continue to fail to recognize the value of community health workers and models that have been very successful like Mamatoto Village in Washington, D.C. Like there are solutions out there. We know what to do. The problem is that we're not investing in them and we're not prioritizing them. And I think that's what's most frustrating is that it's not like this is impossible to solve.

We are just not willing to take the forefront and make the hard choices to prioritize sexual and reproductive health and maternal health for women in our nation. But it's like the investment is worth the long term, like what we get in return for it. That's the thing that I don't understand is that the investment in reproductive health care like allows people to have the kind of families they want if in fact they want them that allows them to have the long-term health and you know longevity so they're able to stay in the workforce like i just i guess i hear this and i'm just and i'm told that america is so wealthy and our leaders on all of these fronts and yet we have the maternal outcomes that develop nations that don't have nearly as much access education or technology have and it's just something that that we've kind of shrugged our shoulders at. 100%. And we also have a broken political system. Insert other critically important social problem.

And we can have this conversation about that, right? Like there is the mom to bus act that was partially developed by Lauren Underwood, a phenomenal nurse with whom I had the opportunity to go to public health school with and other representatives that detail out, you know, a solid plan for improving maternal health. And yet we can't pass it, right? Maybe pieces of it, but not in total. Again, we know the solutions.

There are a policy solutions. There are process solutions. There are public health solutions. We know what to do. We lack the willpower to focus on them and to pass them. Yeah. And it just, it's, it's, it doesn't make any sense. I just saw the other day come across my feed.

Yeah, I think it was $7.8 million given to a Michigan university to research the racial disparities in fibroids. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm just like, this is something that women in my family have struggled with, that I struggle with, that has struggled with. that has killed women, that things that have turned into cancer and ruin fertility outcomes. And I'm just like, and I saw the dollar amount and I said, but seven million. Okay, I guess. You know, like, I guess that'll do something. I don't, you know, I don't really know.

I'm so appreciative of, you know, of the work that you were doing and your organization is doing because I think that too often it is black women and girls of color and women of color that are left behind in these conversations. conversations, but this is really largely a conversation around misogyny and patriarchy. That's right. And racism. And who has the power and who is worth the investment. Because this is, this is truly about research, investment, education, all of these things that seem to fall on non-listening ears. So with the time that we we have left, please tell folks how they can learn more about Power to Decide how they could become student ambassadors or connect with the universities that you're working with.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me and letting me share a little bit about the work that we're doing at Power to Decide. I do want to give a huge shout out to our amazing student ambassadors on our HBCU Beyond the Sheets project. Please follow their work on social media at at Beyond the Sheets, HBCU on all platforms. Sharebedsider.org, which is our major resource around sexual and reproductive health and contraception and abortion finder.org with your peers and community members. We have to invest in these community-led solutions like this HBCU project while we're also pushing our policymakers to reinvest in sexual and reproductive health and maternal health solutions along the way. Dr. Reagan, McDonald-Moseley, thank you so much for making time for the new abnormal. Really appreciate

you, your work and this conversation. Likewise. Thank you so much. A week or so ago, Moms for Liberty held its 2024 Joyful Warrior Summit. In attendance was senior investigative researcher at Media Matters for America, Olivia, Little. She joins me now to tell us what it was like. Olivia, thanks so much for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. My first question isn't really a question. I just want to start by saying moms for liberty members are neither joyful nor warriors. Discuss. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I would say even, you know, this year, it's more apparent that they're neither joyful nor warriors. Because at least last year, you know, they pretended to have some joy. But this year, it was pretty dire at the summit.

Before we get into the specifics of what you saw, I know you were there in 2023 also at that year's summit. Talk a little more about the general vibe compared to a year ago. Oh, yeah. I mean, the two could not have been more different. In 2023, they were really like on a high. I would say that attendance was about three times larger than this year. Wow.

Yeah. It was in Philly. There was a huge counter protest as well. That did not happen this year. I didn't see any counter protesters. I think there were some organizing going on. But like last year it was hard to like sort of escape them because they were they were surrounding the conference center, as they should, right? Like it was great organizing. But so last year way larger. The speaker lineup was crazy. They had nearly like every Republican presidential hopeful there speaking as well as people like Dennis Prager. And this year, the two top speakers advertised were Glenn Beck and Rob Schneider until just days before the conference when they like last minute added Donald Trump, who seemed pretty, you know, surprised to be in a ballroom of like 300 people when he showed up. Yeah, I was looking, you know, in reading your piece and also looking at their website at the guest list. And man, it was kind of weak. I mean, you had Tulsi Gabbard, you had James Lindsay and Seb Gorka who pretty much show.

up anywhere, it feels like. Oh, and he was there the entire weekend. Oh, good Lord. Rob Schneider, as he said, the Babylon Bs, Seth Dillon. So in all of those names, I just mentioned, absolutely nobody funny. But in the piece you wrote for Media Matters about this, you said much of the conference was spent attempting to terrify parents into believing that schools are secretly grooming, manipulating, and transitioning students. How did they go about trying to do this? Oh, you know, there were a number of panels dedicated to the topic of like, like secret gender transitions in schools. I would say almost every speaker incorporated it in some way,

even if like the topic wasn't about trans children or like transgender people. They incorporated it. And this was different than last year because I would say last year it was more, you know, like the CRT boogeyman. There was so little discussion of book banning this year. It was wild, right? So this is another like, wow.

Transition that we're seeing, yeah, that we're seeing within the organization, is, you know, when they started, they went really heavy on, like, anti-masking and then transitioned to, like, anti-CRT, book banning. What's really selling, I mean, like, the last thing they have to grab onto is, like, this, like, sort of anti-trans panic. And they're ditching everything else. Not ditching everything else, but they're sort of, like, moving their focus to a new topic, which is something we've seen them do year after year. You know, they're very opportunistic in what, what they think is going to, like, terrify parents. Yeah, you'd think for an organization that

likes to transition so much, they would feel a little differently about people, but I guess not. Well, they also had an award. They do like a joyful founders award that they give particularly active members from around the country. And one of them was of a woman who had dressed up like a man to fight in the Revolutionary War, which we realized when we were going through the like event flyer at the cocktail hour. That's the Deborah Samson Award. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of unbelievable that that's one of the people they look at as a hero, given all their views. It's unreal. Yeah, we're like, there's no way that they highlighted this in their own program. Yeah, I'm starting to think they might not be the smartest people in the world.

Title IX seems to be a big target for them. Was there a lot of talk about that? Yeah, so there was a lot of talk. So that's, I would say, combined with their sort of trans panic. I went to a panel on Title IX with a number of attorneys speaking to parents about, you know, the sort of like them including, you know, gender identity and sexual orientation in Title IX. And what the attorneys did, or one attorney in particular, encouraged parents to file Title IX complaints because there's sort of, there's already a backlog of complaints. They encourage parents to do this to, I think their quote was like, put sand in their regulatory gears for the administration until Trump is elected.

And look, we've already seen a bunch of judges are putting the kibosh on the Biden regulations. but this does seem like gumbing up the legal works, the judicial works, however you want to describe it, does seem like a pretty big tactic for them, right? Yeah, yeah. That's like explicitly what they were promoting, which is really, I think, vile because it means it's like creating a backlog of valid Title IX complaints as well. Right. It's like slowing down actual Title IX complaints in the works. Right, for sure, which probably to them is more of a feature than a bug.

But there were some other things. What was the March for Kids? Oh my gosh. So the March for Kids was part of the summit. And again, like, it's hard to explain because they didn't do a good job explaining it either. It was very, like, weirdly organized. It's a March that wasn't actually a March. It was held at the D-A-R Constitution Hall. It was originally supposed to be on the lawn or the mall, but that did not happen. And it was with a bunch of, like, right-wing organizations. So, like, gaze against groomers. You had Glenn Beck as a March captain, Tulsi Gabbard is a March Captain, the CEO of Prager You spoke as well. So again, it's like a March that's not a March. I walked in and it was so beyond empty. And this is a free event. It's part of the summit, but it's also external to the summit in that all you had to do is put your email in and you could go to this event. And there were a lot of like right wing media outlets plugging it as well as like right wing organizations promoting the event, which like no one attended. I can't emphasize

that enough. Wow. Yeah, it was just so, so empty. so, so empty and strange. And I also think it signaled that, you know, Moms for Liberty is starting to, you know, they're already radical. They're already like a far right organization. But they're, they're really leaning into that. And I think for me, what, what signaled that was there, they had a speaker come on and promote conversion therapy to the audience. Wow. She talked about how, you know, Jesus saved her from same sex attraction. We can do the same thing for our children. She called homosexuality demonic and advocated for them to like, convert their gay children. Yeah, and kept using like demonic spiritual attack sort of like

language. One of the things you said in your piece was that a phrase that you seem to hear a lot that a lot of people are using was spiritual warfare. Yes. The spiritual warfare rhetoric is something new in moms for liberty in a way that, you know, it might have been like minor from some speakers before. Now it is like front and center are speakers and like leading members using, I guess like spiritual warfare rhetoric saying that there's like this battle against good and evil implying that like all else is demonic. So their enemies are demonic. Like the transgender pipeline, whatever they want to call it is demonic or spiritual warfare. But this is new, right? This is a new sort of like rhetoric that is becoming like very, very popular in right wing spaces.

But moms for liberty is clearly attached on to that. Yeah. As you said, that is definitely becoming very popular, very prevalent in a lot of right-wing spaces. And so I guess it's not a surprise that Mom for Liberty is latching on to it, but it's still, I think, important to note just how prevalent this type of rhetoric has become. Were there any links between the summit and Project 2025? Yeah. So I think the first thing to note is that last year when I was at the summit in 23, they had a table. Like the Heritage Foundation was tabling like a Project 2025 table. I was handed like a recruitment card. And so basically what they were doing was trying to recruit Moms for Liberty members into like the project 2025 project. If you go to the link, there was a like the link on

the flyer that they gave me. It like sends you to their job database. So it's like you're supposed to put in your like a resume bank almost for their project and for like future administrations. But anyway, so so yeah, the Heritage Foundation has been a primary sponsor of Moms for Liberty for years. They've been like their largest backer. And again, this year, while it wasn't, they didn't do a project 2025 table like last year, Heritage was still very like, was involved in everything related to the conference. I mean, they were the largest sponsor. They were, I would say that Heritage employees, partners and like alumni were nearly every single panel.

And then there was the general vibe of like abolishing the Department of Education. you had the author of Project 2025's education policy plan leading a panel advocating for the abolishment of the Department of Education. And yeah, so I mean, they were just like constantly present at the event. And like it's hard to separate Moms for Liberty from the Heritage Foundation or Project 2025 because they're all sort of one entity. Yeah, for sure. So you mentioned at the top that attendance was much lower than in 2023. What do you attribute that to? Oh, I think that they've just had a year of decline, like a very strong year, like one event after the other that sort of hit their base and also hit their allies. So I would say it all started with the Indiana chapter

of Moms for Liberty quoting Hitler uncritically in their newsletter, which happened right before their summit last year. And then, you know, at the summit itself, they doubled down. Tiffany Justice, one of the co-founders came on stage and was like, you know, one of our moms quoted Hitler. I stand with that mom and they all went crazy. And that got bad coverage for them. And then the Bridget Ziegler, three-sum scandal came out, which is Bridges Ziegler was one of the co-founders and is a school board member still. So her scandal broke. And then, you know, her husband was the former president of Florida's Republican Party. And then he had to resign because of allegations against him.

But then sort of like the hypocrisy of the whole situation really like damaged not just like the couple, but the organization as well because they're so, you know, closely attached. And then the 60 Minutes interview that just was a complete disaster. and like widely, it just like went viral because of how terrible it was. I think really, really hit the group so hard that they were even talking about it this year. Oh, they were? Yeah, still trying to recover from like a very embarrassing interview. You know, because they immediately went on like a right-wing media tour following that interview to, you know, condemn 60 minutes and then, you know, try really hard to like make it seem like they knew what they were talking about, even though they couldn't answer basic questions about their own, you know, statements. And then I think at the end of the day, just like they are not.

not doing well. They are losing elections. And I think it was Brookings that found that they had like a 33% win rate in 2023, which is significantly less than before. Yeah, just like all together, you know, scandal after scandal, embarrassment. And then the fact that they just like are not winning, all of those things together is why the summit was the way that it was this year, in my opinion. Yeah. No, I wanted to ask you about what you said about them not winning. Just last month, moms for Liberty Back candidates in Florida didn't have such great results. The Tampa Bay Times reported that among the 14 candidates that the group backed statewide, only three won, six lost, and five-headed runoffs. That includes their candidates losing in counties where the candidate they endorsed two years ago, cruised into office, according to the Tampa Bay Times.

Was any of that talked about at the summit? No, not at all. Really? Yeah, not at all. They obviously didn't mention any of their scandals, and they didn't mention, like, anything about their win rate. They did mention at one point it was Tina Descovic, the co-founder, very briefly when she was, I think it was right after she gave James Lindsay the Liberty Sword award, which was insane. But she mentioned that, you know, they've lost partners, right?

Like, at this point, like, she was thankful that he was sticking around because they don't have, they've been losing people this year or like through the years, which I think is significant because that hadn't been something they've mentioned before. And also significant because, like, for a long time, they were. riding high. And there were a lot of like organizations and figures that wanted to be associated with them. And clearly that's not what's going on right now. Obviously, as you said, Trump spoke there. But other than him, were there any big time Republican office holders that were there? No. Wow. And like I said, Trump was a super late addition, which is why I also think that like

attendance was low because maybe if they would have had Trump on the speaker lineup months before, they would have had like a larger turnout. But he was only added, I think about a week maybe, before the summit started. And it's like, you know, the summits in Washington, D.C. People have to get there. And so that's a super late, super late edition for the star speaker at an event that, you know, his name might have pulled more people. And they even added like day passes so people could come on just Friday when he was speaking.

But yeah, I mean, he was, he was really the largest, like, Republican speaker. That's wild to think that an organization that seemed to, you know, just a year or two ago was sort of inescapable. And every, you know, every Republicans seemed to be touting to them and wanting to show their support. And here in 2024 with the huge election coming up, that pretty much none of them were there. Yeah. I would say that the only other elected, because Byron Donald introduced Trump at the event, but wasn't like a, a speaker line. I think he was just at the same rally like earlier in the day. Like they all went together because even Sean Spicer was at the event. Oh, God. Yeah. But yeah, but to not have the speaker

of the house or anyone like that is that that is so wild to me. And look, I hope this is all a good sign. And I hope that, you know, all those things you pointed out for them having a bad year, I hope that on top of that more people were wise to the kind of things that they are trying to do and that it may have taken a couple years for people to wake up to that and to organize against it, but maybe that's actually happening now. Yeah, absolutely. Like, yeah, I just think that there's like a negative connotation associated with their organization. Like they, like people recognize Moms for Liberty as someone associated with like, or is an organization associated with doing things like quoting Hitler or threatening school board members or teachers. And they, they can't get away from that

association, and I think that's really hurt them. But I also don't think that they're going anywhere anytime soon. Their base is dwindling. Their allies are clearly dwindling. You know, like you were saying, you know, it's crazy that they didn't have more Republicans at the event. It was literally in D.C. and they couldn't find more like elected officials to speak or even just be present, which is so significant. But right now we're left with sort of like a radical, with like the radical true believers as their base, which is still dangerous, right, for the active chapters. And it's still dangerous for like school politics, right? Like, you don't have to win every school board member to still be a negative influence on school politics. Oh, absolutely. And that's why Olivia, I think

work like yours is so crucial. So thank you so much for taking your weekend to be among these people, which I hope that media matters has good mental health benefits. But thank you so much for being here, Olivia, I really appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much. Andy Levy. All right, Danielle. We got a new week full of hope,

full of love, full of unicorns and rainbows. Let's put an end to that. Who's your fuck that guy? Let's put an end to it. Yes, because you know who will never be filled with hope, who will never be filled with unicorns that he probably won't try and shoot,

will be Ronnie Jackson, Representative out of Texas, just vile, misogynist, racist piece of garbage. And just to make sure that people don't forget who he is, let me read you a tweet that Ronnie put out ahead of the second presidential debate, but first, with Vice President Kamala Harris. He wrote this. Tomorrow night, President Trump gets to put Kamala Harris in her place on live. TV during their first presidential debate. When he debated Joe Biden, he in capital letters,

ended his political career and made him in capital letters retire. Kamala doesn't stand a chance, exclamation, exclamation, maga, exclamation. First, did Joe Biden retire? Because I'm pretty sure he's still president of the United States. That's number one. Two, when I read things like this, It is hard for me to wrap my head around the Republican women who see this and say, got to love them. Gotta love these men that see me as nothing more than an incubator. Gotta love these men who when Katie Britt gave her response to the state of the union said, ah, she's just a mom.

She's a senator. Has a whole job. But the Republican men that came out to support her rebuttal were just like, oh, she's just a homemaker. It is so disgusting to me that this level of misogyny is applauded inside of this party and that a majority of white women in this country see these things, hear these things, and still vote for their own subjugation. It makes no sense to me.

It makes absolutely no sense. But I will shout out the person who responded when I quote retweeted this and put up a picture of the White House and said, This is her place in response to Donald Trump putting her in his place. Because I pray that tomorrow America gets to witness Donald Trump in all his glory as the oldest candidate running for president of the United States as the most unqualified person ever running for the position. And that he helps deliver Vice President Kamala Harris to her place, which is in the Oval Office. So for that reason, and so many more reasons that I just don't have the time to go through, Ronnie Jackson, you are my, fuck that guy. Yeah, I mean, look, I for one, am shocked that the Trump administration's drug dealer would

talk like this. That is just wild to me. As you're typing this out, would you not think to yourself that talking about putting a black woman in her place is, if nothing else, a really bad look? And then I realized the answer for Ronnie Jackson is no. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, who's in a bad look for? Yeah.

Because he actually thinks that it's not that he used those words accidentally. And it's not that he later would go, oh, I guess I chose my words poorly. No, he actually thinks black women should be put in their place. So to him, that's just a normal way of speaking. Fuck that guy. God, he is just one of the worst Americans. Mm-hmm. There's so much in that competition.

You know what I'm saying. So Andy disrupt our unicorns and our cupcakes and sprinkles on this good, good day. Who is your fuck that guy? I might fuck that guy. You may have heard of him. It's a guy named J.D. Vantz. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.

He is the vice presidential candidate on the Republican side, I believe. He decided to tweet this on Monday. Months ago, I raised the issue of Haitian illegal immigrants draining social services and generally causing chaos all over Springfield, Ohio. Reports now show that people have had their pets abducted and eaten by people who shouldn't be in this country. Where is our borders are? Now, of course, there's a couple things here.

One is J.D. Vance not shockingly gets his news from right-wing media outlets that could not care less about the truth and have been reporting that Haitian immigrants in Ohio are eating dogs and cats and I guess ducks in public parks. Danielle, would you be surprised to know that the Springfield Ohio News Sun has reported that according to the Springfield Police Division, there have been no reports related to pets being stolen and eaten? No, Andy. I wouldn't be surprised by that.

Yeah. So apparently, according to reporting from oddly, AL.com, which is in Alabama, this whole thing originated from a Facebook. post, which of course it did. Some user claimed that their neighbors, daughters, friend, lost her cat, and found it hanging from a branch at a Haitian neighbor's home, all prepared for eating. So none of this happened to be clear. And here we have the Republican candidate for the vice president of the United States amplifying this, claiming it as true, which of course means now that pretty much all Republicans and all idiots, which includes Elon Musk, because he, of course,

helped amplify this story after it became a thing, they now all believe that this is true. They all, they now all believe that Haitian immigrants who are here in this country illegally in Springfield, Ohio, are abducting and eating people's pets, none of which is true. They don't care that it's not true, what they care. is that it scares white folks and hopefully in their eyes makes them more likely to vote for them. And we're beyond the time of just being able to say, look, this isn't true because it just doesn't matter anymore, which is just an incredibly sad state of affairs. But there we are. So Judy Vance, fuck that guy. So just a little heads up as to what's been happening in Springfield, Ohio, which was until several years,

ago experiencing deep economic drought. The township, the areas were crumbling because of divestment, factory work had left the area. And then, lo and behold, they have a influx of immigrants into a particular area to build back up their manufacturing and their working. And the area begins to experience an economic boom, which they are in right now. But they're also having some conflicts, because guess what? The people that are actually doing the work in said area to make it economically viable are Haitian, which when you bring in 10,000 immigrants from a particular area, the culture of your area is also going to shift. There are great things that have happened to this area that was on the decline. But do Republicans see that? No. Do the white racists that didn't want to do

those jobs in the first place see that? No. And so they go ahead and they do what they've been doing since the beginning of time, which is making up stories about the barbarism of black people and black immigrant culture. It is vile. It is fucking disgusting. I'm annoyed that we even have to regurgitate their bullshit as opposed to the real sense of what is behind this, that immigration is healthy for our country and creates economic viability in areas that have seen their fair share of the rusting of the rust belt. So you know what? Like for the JD Vances, the Trumps, the must, the all of these wealthy white people that have never had a fucking callous on their hands, fuck you and fuck those guys.

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