The Daily Beast Podcast - It’s Grotesque to Keep Putting Mitch McConnell Out There

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

On this week’s episode of The New Abnormal, hosts Andy and Levy and Danielle Moodie discuss the ramifications of Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s latest freeze. Plus! National opinion columnist for the “Philadelphia Enquirer,” Will Bunch, talks to us about his recent article surrounding the state of journalism. Then, The Daily Beast’s politics reporter Zachary Petrizzo stops by to let us in on what’s happening with G O P fundraising.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. One excellent show we have today.

Will Bunch, who's a national opinion columnist for the Philadelphia Inquirer, will talk to us about his recent article. Journalism fails miserably at explaining what is really happening to America. Then we'll talk to the Daily Beast, Zach Petrizo, who's going to let us in on the inside track on what's happening with GOP fundraising. But first, let's have some fun. So here's the thing. Mitch McConnell was trending again on social media. We do our best to have conversations that matter about the rest of us. And unfortunately, what we are seeing, what we are all witnessing and cannot not talk about, is the fact that there is a difference, in my humble opinion,

between being 80s and well like a Bernie Sanders and a Joe Biden, and being in your 80s and clearly unwell. And this parade that we're doing with Mitch McConnell in front of microphones after he has had a series of physical ailments, ain't it. It's not it. I can't fucking stand Marjorie Taylor Green, and I think it's wild that of all people to be commenting on Twitter X or whatever the fuck we want to call it today about his physical ailments

and the need to resign is, wild because one, she should resign because I don't believe that she has a brain in her head. But here's the thing. When we look at Mitch McConnell, when we're looking at Diane Feinstein, it's the same issue. Like, I would not want this for my family members. Like, I wouldn't want this for them to be pushed out, to continue to be hanging on to power and to these jobs when they clearly do not have the capability, the function, and the intellectual nimbleness to be able to continue doing the job. Mitch McConnell can rest assured that he has reigns supreme over destroying America, over destroying our judicial system. It's time to take a break.

Yeah, it's a weird feeling to agree with Marjorie Teler Green. And I'm going to have to take a really long shower after this podcast, I think, to wash that stink off me. And also there is the irony of her saying that mental health and competence in our nation's leaders must be addressed, because check out a mirror sometime, Madge. Mm-hmm. But no, we've talked about this on the podcast before. And yeah, and we have to keep saying this, that this is not about ageism. And as you pointed out, there are people in their 80s.

There are people in their 90s who are fully mentally competent and fully physically fit, or at least as physically fit as you can be at that age. And I got no problem with them hanging around if they can do the job. No love for Mitch McConnell, but this shit is scary to watch. I don't want to have to see this. And the only way I don't have to see this is if Mitch McConnell is not in a position of extreme power. He clearly doesn't belong in that position. And he doesn't need to be in that position.

There are people who are elderly in this country. This is a sad but true thing who sort of even in their 80s maybe can't afford to retire. And even if maybe they can't really do the job they've been doing, but they literally have to keep getting paychecks or they're going to starve to death or whatever. Mitch McConnell ain't that. He's fine. He's comfortable. He doesn't need to be doing this. And he needs to not be doing this anymore. And as you pointed out, this goes for Diane Feinstein, too. This is not even remotely a partisan issue. Like, this is set aside your feelings about Mitch McConnell. In this case, it doesn't matter. It's not about that. This is about a,

a guy who now, this is the second time, he's been on camera, completely freezing up, seeming not to know where he is or what's going on around him. Let's be honest, if we've seen it twice on camera, how many times has it happened behind closed doors in meetings or at hearings or whatever that we are not privy to and that, you know, people are just not talking about? Because I'm going to guarantee it's a non-zero number. Just retire. How much do these people hit?

their families. I just, I honestly, like, go spend time with your family. Go play with your grandkids or, you know, if you can't do that, sit and watch your grandkids play. Get some joy out of life instead of doing this. Like, I just, I don't get it. Just go, go live your life. Yeah, I know that we're laughing at the family part, but like, it's really true.

If you are privileged enough not to need to have to work, to just have your basic needs met, Mitch McConnell is more than comfortable. We know that financially. So what are you doing at this point? There's no reason. And also, your state, pretty solid fucking red. You know what I'm saying? So if it's the political maneuvering around, oh, well, a Democrat could, probably not. So what is the need to continue to hold on to power? Now, with Feinstein, they say, well, Republicans won't allow for hearings and they won't elaborate. Okay, if you want to make that argument as to why this woman is being pushed out in a wheelchair to cast vote, I guess. But at the end of the day, something and your health and well-being shouldn't be the thing that gives in order for you to hold on to power. There just has to be

more to the rest of your life than that. So that's it. Yeah, I mean, it's grotesque. And by that, I'm not saying that Diane Feinstein is grotesque. I'm not saying that Mitch McConnell is grotesque. for health reasons. He's grotesque for other reasons. It's grotesque to keep putting these people out there. I am talking now to the people around them. Yep. They're the ones being grotesque. And just have some baseline of humanity. I understand we're talking about politicians and we're talking about political maneuverers behind the scenes. So I know I can't ask for too much in the way of humanity. But have just a baseline of humanity that says to you, oh my God, what are we doing to these people? What are we doing to Diane Feinstein?

What are we doing to Mitch McConnell by continuing to put them out there as public figures and as powerful lawmakers? When these things keep happening to the two of them, I hate talking about this because it's sad. There are people who can't do the job anymore and it's time for them to go. And I don't know what else to say about it. Other things that we have a lot to say about, though. My mother said this to me the other day. She goes, I really need to stop watching the news because... I thought it was going to be I love Andy.

Right, that too. Andy, you know, my family loves you so much. Oh. She can't go a day without not hearing Donald Trump's name. And for that reason, she's just like, I mean, let me know when you're on the TV, but other than that, I'm not turning it on. And I feel the same fucking way. Here is Donald Trump, once again, making news because we just give this man all that he wants all the time. And it's why when you're raising children and you're just like, you've got to break them out of bad behavior and let them know that they can't get away with everything, 77 years later, here we are with Donald fucking Trump.

But apparently recent reporting say, I guess a deposition that he has done on the record. Can you imagine being the person that it, what do you call those? This stenographer that is in there typing up the shit that's coming out of Donald Trump's mouth? Yeah. Like I would deeply have to take a pause and be like, do you really want this in the record? Like, are you sure? Is this what you're really saying?

But apparently, according to our outlets at The Daily Beast, Donald Trump was just too busy, Andy, to commit fraud because he was stopping nuclear winter from happening and descending on planet Earth. Like, he thinks, and what he said in this deposition, for the love of God, what did he say? I think you would have had a nuclear. Holocaust if I didn't deal with North Korea. He said, I consider the presidency to be the, quote, the most

important job in the world, saving millions of lives. Like, I can't even say it without laughing. So his love letters to King John Un or what saved us, the ones that he wants to show everybody, like that's what saved the world from nuclear holocaust. And your defense is, I couldn't have done this crime, because I was too busy cozying up to another authoritarian? What the fuck? So here, this to me is the actual funniest part of this whole thing. So this all has to do with the question of whether his, the Trump organization, basically as a matter of routine, would either inflate or lower what they claim the value

of the company was so that they could save money on insurance, pay lower taxes, etc. Trump is basically saying, you know what, I didn't really have anything to do with this. I'm not, I wasn't really dealing with the company. I was too busy kissing Kim Jong-Gland's ass. And then he goes on to say, and this is in the transcript, he says, my son Eric is much more involved with it than I am. Was that supposed to be comforting? Well, I just read that. And it's like, if I'm Eric, I'm like, come on, man.

You're throwing me under the bus here? He is basically saying, hey, if there were shady dealings going on, you got to talk to my son Eric. And I'm just reading this and I'm like, oh my God. I don't want to say life's awful for Eric because he's got everything. But he doesn't have his father's love. And here he goes. And here's his dad just basically saying, you know, oh, it's not Don Jr. Surely not Ivanka.

It's not Ivanka. You know, it's not barren. You want to know about the fraud. Go talk to my son, Eric. And I'm just like, oh, man, just the worst. father in the world. The skid marks must be tattooed on that man's back. You know what I'm saying?

Like, holy shit. Can you buy pre-marked? Yeah. Like, whoa. Oh, God. That's so gross. Usually fathers protect their children. Right.

This motherfucker's like, oh, what can I do to dodge trouble? Let me throw him to the wool. This whole thing is just unbelievable. I mean, for him to sit there and to portray himself as, well, I couldn't get involved in this company because I'm out here saving the world after the record of his presidency is just, it's absolutely unbelievable. But it's Donald Trump. So like you said, he's got a 77 year history of getting away with this shit. Why would he think this would be any different? Speaking of getting away with shit, it seems like the climate.

has run out on Rudy Giuliani and him getting a pass. Because in, oh my God, if karma, if karma is not a black woman, I don't know what it is, a federal judge has determined that Rudy Giuliani has lost a defamation lawsuit from two Georgia election workers, Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss, who we know, we saw testify before the January 6th committee. their heartbreaking testimony at the devastation of their lives because of being made a target by the president of the former president of the United States and Rudy Giuliani and all of those people that you see as defendants in Georgia. He's lost the defamation lawsuit against them. And so now it will be, I believe, going to trial where he could face a certain amount of

damages, which by the way, he don't got the money to pay. Yeah. I mean, he can't afford lawyers and is basically looking to Donald Trump for handouts and, you know, maybe he can do a lot of those Instagram, happy birthday things that gets you 50 and $100 a pop, which apparently he fucking does. $200. I'm sorry. $200 a pop.

I think that Jesse knows for certain how much they cost. I was fact checking. Jesse loves his cameo. So, you know, maybe he'll have to do that. But I would believe that if this is now headed to trial, that I hope that Ruby and Shea receive the money that they deserve. And I know, sadly, the money is not going to make them whole again. The money is not going to restore their name. But I hope that it does a little bit to ease the pain and suffering that they have been through.

Because I can't imagine that listening to. their testimony again during a trial and seeing that motherfucker's face that a jury does not look at those two women and say, you know what, they deserved better. Yeah, they should, someone should just go and catalog everything that Rudy owns and just say, this belongs to Ruby and Shana. Yeah. Everything on this list, which is every possible worldly possession that you have, it's theirs now. And they can do whatever the hell they want with it. They can make probably a nice bonfire if they wanted to. You shouldn't burn die.

It's bad for the environment. That's true. You'd have to separate. Yeah, that's a good point. You're right, though. Nothing can make up for the death threats that they got and the physical pain and emotional pain that they went through because of Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump. Let's not let him off the hook here. We've talked about this during the hearings.

Like, with all the stuff going on in those hearings, with all the horrible things that people, that people like Giuliani and Trump were doing to the country, what they did to these two individuals really stood out. As you said, it was the most heartbreaking thing to watch. These two women who were, honestly, they were trying to serve their country. They were out there working at election places, the whole point of American democracy. And what did they get for it? They got smeared. They got defamed. They got death threats and they got threats of violence and all of this, none of which they deserved. This may be the first time that I can remember the name Rudy Giuliani and the word justice being in the same sentence. I am so happy that he lost this.

I am happy for them and whatever recompense they get while it's not enough, they should get it. And it should be as much money as is humanly possible for them to get from him. That's the amount they should get. Mm-hmm. Amen. Folks, I am very excited to welcome to the new abnormal national opinion columnist and author of the book After the Ivory Tower Falls, How College Broke the American Dream and Blue Up Our Politics and How to Fix It, Will Bunch.

Will, as I was saying before we started recording, I am a new super fan of yours. Your piece in the Philadelphia Inquirer entitled Journalism, Thurnexia, fails miserably at explaining what is really happening to America, hit every nail on every head. And I sent it around to everyone that I know. I posted it on every social media platform that I have. Thank you. My girlfriend kept saying, why is it so important that I read this? And I was like, because it is.

Everything is important. Read the damn article. And she did. So I just want to open up with asking you, you write this piece. and you did what a lot of other journalists don't do. You actually called out some folks by name in terms of the way that they are both siding our democracy to hell. I wanted to get your initial thoughts

on why you thought that that was important to do. Yeah, that's a great question. A couple of reasons. I think one is, I feel it's kind of lame to write a piece saying the media is doing everything wrong and not give some examples. I've seen a lot of that. The media is doing a terrible job at this campaign.

there's too much horse race coverage. And I had seen some clarion examples of that recently. And I feel like it makes a piece a lot stronger when you can explain what you mean. It is hard. You probably know this, Danielle, but there is a kind of code of collegiality within journalism, right? Where, you know, it's considered kind of against those rules to criticize a fellow journalist unless they've done something incredibly egregious, you know. But just to criticize somebody harshly for their kind of routine activities, people who are not

journalists, of course, do that all the time, but within the community, right? Within the brotherhood and sisterhood of journalists, you're kind of not supposed to do that. I just disagree. And, you know, maybe one of the journalists I criticize is going to end up on the Pulitzer board, and I yet again won't win a Pulitzer because of it or whatever. So I guess there's a certain risk inherent in that. And I'm not trying to make enemies, but my feeling is this. The media is an incredibly powerful institution in this country. I mean, it's hard to compare because its role is different, but on some ways it's almost on a part with the government because the government is the actor, but the media is the interpreter,

the filter that everybody sees those actions through. And, you know, if you look at the history of America in the last 25 years, you can see what one major change in the media, which was the rise of a conservative outlet like Fox News with such a large reach, you can see what a ginormous impact that has had on our politics and on American society. And, you know, the base of the Republican Party, the Republican voters had been moving away from the reality-based world and Fox News and its coverage has been a big driver of that for more than a generation now. So I think the media should be held to account. And I think, you know, individual journalists, if we're going to hold individual politicians to account, then, you know, individual journalists should be held to account, too. I want to read just a piece of your article for the audience because I want to talk to you about one of the quotes that you use in here that I think is incredibly important as we talk about modern journalism and how it continues to fail us. And you write this.

Trump's glowering mugshot instantly became the most talked about picture in American history. Yet not one pundit was able to explain why tens of millions of everyday voters are so eager to return the White House to this man who attempted a coup. on January 6, 2021, or why, his poll numbers rise with each indictment. I guess the 20th century author and socialist Upton Sinclair really nailed it when he wrote, quote, it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it. One of my favorite quotes of all time. Yeah, I'm glad you picked that quote because I do think that kind of gets to the crux of why

I wrote this piece. I mean, I wrote this piece because, especially last. week because I was up visiting my parents actually in upstate New York. They're getting up there in years and needed some help with a couple things. But I watched a lot of TV as you tend to do in those situations. Yeah, right. Well, I watched the debate, the Republican debate, and then the next day, I watched all the coverage of Trump's arrest in Atlanta. And I just felt there was just such a disconnect, such an error of unreality. For basically a year now, with these criminal investigations of Trump, I've been seeing every day they go.

on there and say, do you think this indictment's going to hurt his poll numbers? Do you think he's going to lose support, you know, now that he's got one indictment, two indictments, three indictments? And the same thing with Republican primaries, which really, to me, aren't even a primary. I'm not really sure what they are, but can person X or person Y emerge as a challenger to Trump? So-and-so has moved up a couple of percentage point. And it's just this kind of almost willful ignorance to the reality of what's happening. Because a primary and the hallmarks of a primary, like debates or. the person's new 30-second TV ad or all of those things. All the things that were just the

staple of political news coverage, late 20th century, early 21st century, all of those things don't matter right now because the Republican Party really is no longer a party in any sense that if you got a polyside degree in 1981, like I did, what you learned about political parties is kind of useless because this isn't a party, it's a movement. You can't have a primary because the movement is built around an individual Donald Trump. You know, I mean, it's about more than Donald Trump, but it clearly has anointed Donald Trump as its leader in the same way that Great Britain is anointed Charles as its king. You know, Donald Trump is going to be the king of this movement until he passes away.

What you're saying is fact, right? Like, yes, you're an opinion writer. But where I find trouble with journalists these days is that they refueling. use to actually report the facts, right? And the facts are this Republican Party no longer operates like a political party. Whether you are watching the Speaker of the House in Tennessee take away the rights of other representatives' ability to speak, clearing out the chamber so that the community, their constituents don't have a clear vision and transparency into seeing what is happening, right, how they are being governed. If you're watching prosecutors be removed from governors that

don't like them because they have a D after their name, you are reporting facts. And so my question for you is, is it, I am more cynical. I don't know you, but I believe that I probably, you know, get the award for being one of the most cynical folks. And I believe it is because of money, of capitalism. and the idea that what is happening, what the Republican Party is doing, is driving clicks, which drives ads, which drives money, which drives the bottom line. That democracy, right, whether or not the Washington Post and others want to put on as a mantra about servicing people so that they can see the light, that that actually isn't the end goal. And so my question for you is that they want to both sides because they want to seem neutral

in the face of atrocities that we're seeing happen. but what you're naming are facts that aren't being reported. I totally agree with that analysis. The reason why journalists do the things they do is I mentioned a moment ago. So I graduated college in 1981, so I've been a professional journalist for more than 40 years now. I've worked a number of news organizations. And I know the business and I know the mindset pretty well. And it's very complicated.

It's hard to explain people who are listening to this who are teachers or lawyers or scientists or pipe fitters or whatever. Every profession has its kind of strange codes, right? None stranger than journalism. You know, I think a lot of people are under the feeling it's like, well, these news organizations, you know, especially the TV networks, they're either owned by big corporations or they're owned by billionaires like Rupert Murdoch and the reporters on the ground are kind of reflecting that agenda. Perhaps in some subtle ways.

I certainly think corporate and billionaire control of the media is absolutely an issue. But I think on the ground, a lot of the problems are, like you said, professional norms, you know, the feeling, I know that when I came of age in journalism in the 1980s, people really prided themselves on their ability to report both sides of an issue. If you did a story and either both sides like the story or more likely both sides of a story complained about the story, you said, I must have done a great job because both sides complained. And it's, of course, now we know it's a lot, that's not necessarily true. It's a lot more complicated that. But, you know, I mean, that's a value that's cherished. I do think there's a class of elite journalist that gets a kind of weird, inexplicable pleasure from the rise of somebody like Donald Trump. And it's not because it's serving a corporate interest, perhaps, but just because in their mind, it's a great story that's getting them much more traffic for their stories than they were getting when, you know, Barack Obama was president or whatever.

Believe me, I know myself, you know, many journalists want to write books and get book deals. I've done it myself, although I'm not a fan of access-type books. I like writing issue books, which makes me kind of weird, I guess. But there's huge money in these access books. And when you want access to certain politicians, it's been my experience that, you know, you have to kind of pull your punches. If you think a politician's a total fraud, if you go out and write that, you're not going to have access to that politician after that story.

That's in the back of people's mind. All these things are going on. And these are journals like norms. And a lot of them have served the country badly going all the way back to Ronald Reagan. But whatever you think the threat from Reagan or George W. Bush was what we're experiencing now with Trump and this movement, you know, call it the mega movement or whatever you want to call it. What we're experience right now isn't just kind of a bad conservatism that, you know, hurts working class people or whatever. It's a form of fascism. And it's a threat to our democracy that's not like anything we've encountered in our lifetimes previously. I want to read another part of your piece for the audience because I also think that this is, again, very, very clear.

When you write, quote, these are the stakes, dueling visions for America, not Democratic or Republican with parades and red, white, and blue balloons, but brutal fascism over flawed democracy. The news media needs to stop with the horse race coverage of this modern day march on Rome, stop digging incessantly for proof that both sides are going. guilty of the same sins and stop thinking that a war from the imperiled survival of the American experiment is some kind of inexplicable tribalism. And that's the thing, is that every news channel that you turn on outside of Fox, because I don't watch that because it's not news, but any other news channel that you turn on, this is exactly what it is that they are doing. They're talking about tribalism. They're talking about both sides. They're talking about this election, as if it isn't the most consequential election of our lifetimes.

If it isn't the most consequential election for the world, not just the country. But we got a glimpse of what happened to America's standing in the world with Trump as our president. And you're hearing now murmurs from other world leaders that are like, yo, what is going to happen to America in 2024 and 2025? And what does that mean for the rest of us? And so if you could sit down and with this piece, you did pretty much bring people to school on what it is that they need to do. What would you say to those that are ingesting this news on a regular basis, the average person that is saying, well, I'm going to opt out because both sides fill in the blank.

Right. And that could be the biggest danger. I mean, and specifically it could be a danger, you know, for a couple reasons. One is because people become apathetic and stay home. And I believe we saw that in 2016. You know, you saw, look at some of the states that Donald Trump narrowly won like Wisconsin. You saw places like Milwaukee, black voters who were bombarded with negative messages on social media. Some of them probably from Russia or from God knows where. And they stayed home.

They weren't as excited about Hillary Clinton as they had been about Barack Obama four years earlier. And they didn't vote. And that was a factor. And then think about the third party candidates. I'm a person of the left, and I respect some of the things that Cornell West is saying. But the bottom line is, as Bernie Sanders himself says, now is not the time for this. There's a great book that came out about four years ago called How Democracies Die by a couple of Harvard political scientists, Zblad, and I forget the other one's name. And they say, you know, countries that have been threatened by fascism but have defeated it.

and won, they did so because people dropped their petty differences and rallied behind this. So when people wonder what I should do, your neighbor who's a Trump zealous who watches, you know, Fox News 12 hours a day, you're not going to convert them, not in the next year and a half, you know, but you probably know people in your life who, you know, maybe sometimes voters, you don't vote every time. And you may know young people who think Joe Biden's so old, oh, I'm just going to vote for Cornell West, or there's talk about Joe Mansion running. And I don't know who's voting for Joe Manchin, but somebody probably would be. And, you know, some neighbor goes, oh, I'm just sick of both of them. You know, and that's where the whole cynicism about this tribalism thing, it's like, oh, I'm sick of both sides. I'm going to vote for Joe Manchin or I'm going to vote for Cornell West. And that's how you get Trump. And one of my messages in that piece for journalists is people need to know what the stakes are of a Trump victory. It's not just that he's a buffoon and he'll be back on TV again and back in the office. It's more than that. I mean, he wants to dismantle. call it the deep state, call it the administrative state or whatever they're calling it these days.

But he wants to dismantle government for the people, as we know it. Specifically, there's a plan as part of this whole project 2025 that needs to be probably written about every day, a not-so-secret blueprint for what they would do if Trump wins. They would basically undo everything positive that we're doing about climate change. And to go through a summer, like the one we're going through right now, with wildfires and hurricanes that go from tropical depression to, to a category four hurricane in 36 hours. That's climate change and it's going to get worse if Trump is elected and he dismantles these programs. Talk about projecting, I mean, the Republicans

keep talking about weaponizing the Justice Department. But Trump will weaponize the Justice Department to both protect himself, obviously, and eliminate the cases against him, but also to go after his enemies, you know, and put them in jail. So this should be talked about every day and, you know, not why Vivek Ramaswamy gained four points in the polls, you know, or the myth that, that people are going to be drawn to Nikki Haley because she looks slightly more presidential than the others. It doesn't matter. This is what matters, the fight between democracy and a movement that wants to undo democracy. A hundred percent. Will Bunch, I can't thank you enough for your work and for this piece in particular. It caught everyone's attention. And folks, I implore you to read it at the

Philadelphia Inquirer. Journalism fails miserably at explaining what is really happening. to America. Will, thank you so much for making the time to join the new abnormal, and I hope that you come back again soon. Absolutely, Daniel. Thanks so much for inviting me. I really enjoyed being on. Is the Republican National Committee running out of money? Joining me now to hopefully tell us yes, is Daily Beast politics reporters Zach Petrizo. Zach, thanks so much for being here. Andy, thanks for having it. So what's going on with the R&C's fundraising situation? Yeah, that's a good question. My colleague and I, Roger Fulenberg, kind of explored this this past week for the Daily Beast. And the story gets into how at the

R&C, the Republican National Committee, there's a lot of frustration among the 168 members that make up this Republican Party apparatus or kind of body, the voting members, if you will. Last week, they just went to Milwaukee, had closed door meetings with fellow members. One of the big questions that kept coming up was, why aren't we fundraising more money? Of course, this comes after contentious election where Ronna McDaniels was reelected over a further right challenger, if you will, a more Trumpian challenger and a lawyer named Hermit Dylan. And Dylan really kind of her entire campaign was based on kind of gutting pay for play type of elements we see, if you will, within the Republican Party and specifically within the RNC.

Of course, she didn't win. Mike Wendell also lost. So the RNC is, you know, left with Ronna McDaniels. And Rhonda is now back running kind of the RNC. And, you know, inside, there's a lot of concern about going. into this next election cycle, how, you know, limited resources and, you know, resources being put towards things such as lawsuits, like a lawsuit against Google, for example, or whether that be paying kind of these very cushy consultant contracts, as one R&C member put it to me this

week here in Washington, D.C. And quite frankly, I kind of agree, you know, every time I walk around Arlington Navyard, I see all these Republican Party R&C folks with these cushy apartments. And perhaps a slump, too. So you talked about some of the things that they've been spending money on. So I was curious, is this a case of where did all the money go or why did the money stop coming in? It's a case of both, actually. Okay. On one hand, you have a weird time within the Republican Party now, right?

And specifically within the presidential arena. You have Trump who the RNC and Trump have long kind of been at odds. They've been friendly. They've been at odds. You know, the Trump camp earlier, the She's. as Politico reported, sent them a shot across the bow, if you will, really kind of warning them. Don't use Trump's name and likeness. And the RNC wrote back and said, actually, you know, forget you. We're going to do it. So there's clearly tension between Trump and the RNC. And of course, that tension

has only, you know, grown more fiery and intense after Trump didn't show up at their debate, which was in Milwaukee with Fox. So the relationship between Trump and the RNC's ICE, I see, on its own, then when you add in kind of DeSantis into the mix and the RNC having to stay neutral and pledging to stay neutral, it leaves donors out there, especially the big dollar donors, kind of like, we're not going to open up our wall. It's now when there's so much uncertainty within the party. And, you know, I know even, you know, one member and I were talking and, you know, they had brought up how these indictments also don't help, right?

There's uncertainty about Trump. There's a lot of uncertainty. and the political kind of hardcore operatives in D.C., the Republicans, if you will, definitely see this. And, you know, I think there is a lot of worry not only among the members, but also among kind of the consultant fundraising class, you know, that are ultimately associated with the RNC. Well, that's what I was going to ask. Explain how this works generally because you hear about donations and you think, you know, you look and you see, well, Trump is certainly not having any trouble getting donations with all his indictments. But that's wholly different from something like the RNC, because the RNC, I would imagine, depends much more on that political class, the consultants and people like that, and not like small dollar individuals.

Yes. Yeah. The RNC relies heavily on major dollar donors. I would say they have some grassroots pushes kind of through their respective party chairs and grassroots outreach. You know, they try to do a lot of grassroots outreach, but it's mostly courting kind of these bigger dollar donors. at the fancy events that are held at different resorts across the country, if you will.

And that tends to be how they go after their money and how these consultants ultimately get paid for offering their own advice to the R&C. I would say in some cases, you have it where I think there's one person, one R&C source in particular that had said this is kind of a crony contract where ultimately it's almost like a revolving door where you have some of these consultants going to and pitching these donors. and then ultimately they come back to the R&C or they go out to these K Street, D.C. groups, whether that be a special interest group or an association. And ultimately, there's just this huge revolving door of money that's kind of cycling in and out and in and out. Those donors are looking to ultimately have some sort of impact

and say, quite frankly, especially a lot of these older Republican Party donors on the direction of the party. And I think, you know, like I mentioned earlier, that uncertainty kind of leaves them in a precarious situation. Yeah, for sure. There are a couple of stats that you had in the piece that you wrote with Roger Sali Salenberger. And one of them is you say at the start of the 2022 midterm cycle, the RNC had twice as much cash on hand as the DNC did, 80.5 million versus 38.8 million. But they now have less than half as much on hand as the DNC. So is a lot of this also just sort of like a hangover from 2022? I must admit, Rogers is really the numbers guy. I'm the guy who talks to the people and the members.

I'm much better in the talking part than the numbers part, even though I studied econ, which is a real conundrum. But I think there's some left-door. I think, look, there was a big Trump bump, especially when Trump was not only in office, but, I mean, their fundraising numbers were just insane. I think there was one member in particular that had told me one RNC member that said, We raised a lot of money when Trump was in office. You know, it wasn't Rana.

For some of the members, while a lot of these members are more old-school Republicans, if you will, like working the Reagan administration, you know, a lot of them are kind of biting their tongue, but at the same time, they want to see possibly Trump come back because, you know, it really did help make the R&C a really profitable venture and kind of create the cash flow that they needed for all these different types of do. And all these other things that kind of bring in more money, if that makes sense. It sounds weird, but it's like... Yeah, no, I get it.

For example, they paid for, you know, this trip to Disney World. And that was a contentious point in the past election. And these big trips with these really fancy resorts, ultimately, they hope, attract, you know, more donors. Yeah, that's kind of how it goes. It sounds a lot like a lot of these big dollar donors and whatever are bigger fans of Rona's uncle than they are of her. Yeah, I don't necessarily talk to a ton of donors.

but especially when you talk to the RNC members who, I should note, some of them are big dollar donors. There is a divide, right, which is really what we saw play out in this past election. You saw a lot of these RNC members who, you know, quite frankly, aren't big fans of Trump, are more your Mitt Romney types of Republicans, really split with the Harmeet Dylan and the Mike Lindell crowd. And I would say the RNC overall is still very, very split. I mean, you have people that were up in the meetings and meetings. Milwaukee that were, you know, accusing other people of not being pro-Trump enough, specifically one member, which Daily Beast will work on a story about. There's a lot of infighting within the

group itself. Another thing that you point out in the piece is that in terms of actual money raised this year, the RNC has raised 50.8 million and the DNC has raised 59.5 million. So it's not that huge of a difference. But I'm assuming that the point here is that the DNC doesn't have to spend money on a primary season. So all that money is just sort of on hand, whereas the RNC has a lot more outgo to go along with its income. That's right. The RNC also spends a lot of money on these kind of conservative, what I refer to nicely, what the source says, these pet projects, right? So we're going to go sue Google and, you know, we're going to go file some lawsuits and find out, right? And when they find out, ultimately, they lost all their money. They didn't really get anywhere besides pay over a million

bucks to this law firm. So the DNC, they've raised quite comparable money. They're not necessarily spending it and burning it at the rate that, you know, the CEO is right. The way the RNC works, too, is, you know, after you're kind of a loyal staffer for a long time, you know, a lot of these people ultimately become R&C consultants or what have you or become affiliated with groups that are R&C consultant groups. And they go out and that consultant firm gets to make $20,000 a year from the R&C. So there is a lot of kind of weird kind of like payments ultimately that get moved to these former R&C employees that I don't think you see on the Democrat side that is. Do you think that if Mike Lindell had won that that would have solved all their problems?

You know, that's a good question. No, it's not. I honestly think it would have kind of derailed some of the more, not pay-for-play type stuff, but the back padding and like the back slapping. I think Lindell would have actually come in and like nuked some of the things that some of the RNC members, quite frankly, get upset about, right? Like the consultants and this and that. Right.

Because Lindel, he doesn't have any consultants. Like he doesn't take a device. for me like he just like going to goz by the seat of his pants and perhaps that would appease some rnc members i ultimately think that it would turn into a disaster you know opposition research would ultimately be kind of tossed out into the open and yeah nightmare if you were yeah i mean he might not have you know spent all that money on consultants but i have a feeling he would have blown a good 40 to 50 million dollars on whatever wacky conspiracy theory he was believing that day. Yeah, I was talking with one, perhaps you classify them as a donor to the RNC, and this person gives

a substantial amount of money. And this person, like, believes in what Lindell is saying. Like, I tend to think that, you know, some of these donors, of course, you know, your coax and you're, you're more libertarian types, you're possibly your Morton Blackwells, those types of guys aren't necessarily in line with Lindell. But I would say there is kind of this frustration and reason that some of donors, these big dollar donors are getting behind Lindell. And it is kind of scary to think about, but I mean, these people have millions of dollars and are putting it behind, you know, some of these crudiest ideas that Mike Lindell has. One of them being his election offense fund, which is this, you know, extremely large multi-million dollar fund where he's, you know, trying to go after people

and sue people himself. So while it might seem like a lot of these donors are not into it, Unfortunately, some are. Yeah, that's just almost impossible. I believe you, but at the same time, it's almost impossible for me to believe that anybody who has even the slightest shred of a brain cell could think that anything Mike Lindell says should be taken seriously at all. It's scary, like you said. I would say that there's a group of donors that perhaps immigrated to the United States,

for example, that became super wealthy, that donate to the Republican Party that are associate with the RNC, et cetera. They don't want to see the United States turn into communist China, for example. And when Mike Lindell says, you know, take down the CCP or Bannon says that, you have a lot of these, not a lot, but, you know, you have a good amount of these donors that really flock to that message and think, man, Lindell and Bannon, those are the guys, you know. Amazing. Admittedly, when you get on the phone with these people, I mean, they really do live in another reality. But I think one thing is clear is they believe basically that the last election was stolen, but they have other wacky ideas, right? Like, they think that, you know, all the voting

machines could be seized, which is actually something I think Trump wanted to do if. Right. But they believe that the voting machines could be seized by the government if Republicans were winning, right? I remind them sometimes that Trump, yeah, right? So, yeah, it is pretty crazy with that with some of these donor R&C types. Unreal. We have some time, and I want to talk about a story that you drew my attention to involving Alabama Senator, Republican, Katie Britt. She's found herself in a little bit of drama because she has not endorsed Donald Trump. Give me the backstory on this. Yeah, this is really inside D.C. story. But the gist of it is, you know, most Republicans over on the Senate side up on Capitol Hill have gotten behind Donald Trump, whether that's Lindsey Graham or others. They ultimately, have become very vocal defenders of Trump. But there was one who, of course, earned Trump's endorsement this past cycle. It was important for Katie Britt, ultimately in a deep red state like Alabama,

to have Trump's backing, especially after Trump had pulled his endorsement from Mo Brooks in that same Senate race. So it was a contentious primary there. And ultimately, Katie Britt hasn't endorsed Trump yet? While at the same time, she's kind of learning quickly what happens when you don't endorse Trump immediately. You have, you know, people like Breitbart, Matt Boyle, you know, ultimately kind of going after them and saying, you know, hey, there, why haven't you guys, you know, endorsed Katie Britt yet? And this whole thing kind of boiling over with a lot of mechanisms between this R&C, another R&C advisory council, which Britt had joined, which I think her critics would say it was devised as a way to ultimately be able to give her a reason to not endorse Trump. And this advisory committee ultimately

advised kind of GOP 2024 campaigns and kind of advised some of the campaign strategy behind the scenes. And Britt had said that she wanted to stay neutral. Ultimately, this advisory committee, the RNC, ends up backtracking and saying, you know, members. of Congress like Representative John James, for example, who's also on the committee, could ultimately endorse. And for example, John James did endorse Trump. So now with this advisory committee not, you know, having that kind of pledge of neutrality, you know, Katie Britt was ultimately left on an island where she's trying to kind of hold back Trump world, hold back bright part and hold back RNC critics as she walks this careful, careful, you know, two-step.

if you will, in Washington here where she's trying to appease, you know, the Trump crowd, but also trying to keep what I've learned to be this really kind of interesting Republican Party apparatus in her home state of Alabama, which has a lot of these kind of establishment donors that don't want to see her kind of veer into these crazy Trump lanes, you know, also happy. Yeah, it's a really bizarre story. Like you said, it's very inside politics, but it's totally fascinating to see these various groups and various sides trying to make her do something one way or the other. I mean, we'll see what happens with it. Tell us about your newest favorite conspiracy theory.

Yeah, this one's real favorite of mine. I'm a longtime Diamond Silk follower. You know, I've seen them at CPAC. We always talk more than at CPAC. And, of course, Diamond passed away due to what was ruled, I believe, heart disease. but the new conspiracy theory and Silk has been retweeting kind of tweets to the effect is the second I said Biden needed to be investigated for Diamond and Silk's death. Twitter stopped working.

I also met Obama and Clinton. So basically the new suggestion is the Biden family, you know, murdered Diamond. Oh my God. It's nutty, nutty, nutty, nutty stuff. But, you know, I think, you know, as I've reported at The Daily Beast, in terms of Silk, after Diamond's death, I mean, she began tossing, like, insane stuff out there. Like she was tossing out these pills that are kind of like anti-COVID pills.

Just totally nutty stuff. Herself, she had suggested that her sister, of course, died from the vaccine, which is since given so a reason to raise money and try to fight against the vaccine. So basically just from one conspiracy theory to another, just unbelievable. But look, I don't know that I put anything past the Biden crime family. So who knows? Zach, thanks so much. for being here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. And I enjoy reading your stuff at The Beast.

So, and, uh, thanks again, man. Thank you for having. Andy Levy. Daniel Moody. Andy, how are we rounding out this good, good week in America-ish, you know? I thought I'd rounded out with the Little Civil War. Oh, good. Good. I was hoping it wouldn't be anything too light. No, no, no. And, uh, we, uh, we'd round it out with the Little Civil War. And, uh, we got us a state senator in Georgia by the name of Colton Moore, who looks exactly like I think. Like you think he does from the name Colton Moore. And he went on Steve Bannon's show War Room. He basically suggested that if they don't do something about it, we're going to see a Civil War when Trump goes to trial. And by do something about it, he is trying to defund Fannie Willis.

According to the New Republic, he's calling for a special session of the Georgia State Legislature. legislature to investigate and potentially impeach Willis. And he's out there. And I love the way he couches it. He says, I don't want a civil war. I don't want to have to draw my rifle. I want to make this problem go away with my legislative means of doing so. No, first of all, you do want a civil war.

Wow. And you do want to draw your rifle because it's the love of your life. You sit there and you listen to these guys talk and just this backwards, ignorant-ass, shit. It's like, what century am I in? And unfortunately, the answer is the 21st century. This is where we are now. Obviously, he is far from the first Republican to be talking about a civil war. We've got Sarah Palin telling people they need to rise up. Trump talks about it. And this is just, this is now part of their rhetoric. It's like up there with bombing Mexico. It's just, these are just things they say now. And it's just sort of mainstream Republican rhetoric. So my fuck that guy for today is, it's Colton Moore.

and everything that his name represents. But it's also the rest of the Republican Party for making this sort of a mainstream position within their apparatus. So fuck all those guys. I want to say real quick that there is a direct line between the violent rhetoric that these Republicans use and the acts of violence that we are seeing play out

most recently in Jacksonville, Florida. So when they're talking about a civil war and then you have people go take their AR-15s, go buy up a bunch of weapons, go into communities that they are not a part of in order to take the lives of people who they have been told are the enemy, are the criminals, are the pedophiles, are the groomers. We saw it happen in California. We saw it happen in Jacksonville. We see it happen in Nashville.

We're seeing it happen all over the country. And these politicians should be held accountable for using their platforms to incite violence because that is exactly what the fuck they are doing. And we can't let them off the hook for it. Amen. So, Danielle, now that I've excited everybody with talk of civil war. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Who's your fuck that guy to end this week?

Well, you know, to keep the mood up, let's transition to one of my, you know, old-time favorites. but I haven't uttered his name in a while because he's just so flaccid in his job. But every once in a while he deserves a fuck that guy, which is the Fisher Price Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy. So Kevin McCarthy's band of fucking clowns in the house have started their rumblings because once again, we have a debt ceiling deadline hovering over our heads. And the next one comes up at the end of September. September 30th. And because this Congress can't get their act together to fund the government

and not just kick the can down the road, these Republicans have decided that once again, they're going to say, shut it down, shut it all down. And Kevin McCarthy as a way to stop his wayward fucking zealots from wanting to, I don't know, not pay America's bills and these people are saying, oh, if the government shut down, most Americans won't even care. Are you dumb? Do you actually not know what the government funds and what a government shut down would do? The carrot that he is dangling, Andy, is if the government shuts down, we'll have to stop her investigations into Hunter Biden. Because it's coming up with so much, right? Like, this is, like, it's just so fucking stupid. But that's the carrot that he's dangling.

We can't shut down the government because then we can't shut down President Hunter Biden. Oh, that's right. He doesn't hold an elected office and has no bearing on the lives of the American people whatsoever. He makes not one decision, does not one thing that affects our lives. But yes, all of the resources that flow into that stupid fucking investigation would have to cease. So for that reason, Kevin McCarthy, every single House Republican, you are on my very, very long list of fuck that guys. I'd like to give him credit for at least realizing what's important to his fellow Republican

Congresspeople. But I don't know that that's going to work for him. But it just so obviously lets us know what is important to them. And it ain't their constituents' well-being. Nope. It ain't the well-being of the country writ large. It is this ridiculous investigation trying to prove that there is a Biden crime family and that this is like all they care about. So yeah, fuck these guys.

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