The Daily Beast Podcast - It’s Time to Thank Donald Trump for His Dictator Routine

Episode Date: September 25, 2020

Most of us were horrified when Donald Trump hinted that he might not be willing to give up power. Rick Wilson was kind of appreciative. Trump has long flirted with the dictator thing. Now the mask is off. “I think the correct response to this is defiance,” Rick counsels on the latest episode of The New Abnormal. “‘Thanks for being honest about it. And also fuck you, we're coming to vote you out of office and humiliate you.’” And while the Trumpkins are doing everything they can to undercut every ballot they don’t like, all of that election interference doesn’t matter if it’s a landslide. “If there is a massive voter turnout on November 3rd, these are still only marginal,” Rick says. Molly Jong-Fast puts it more urgently when she adds, “The only way our democracy is going to survive is if every Democrat goes out there and fucking votes.” Then! Molly talks to Danielle Moodie about the appalling results in the Breonna Taylor case. (“How much does this country expect Black people to swallow? You want to be able to kill us with impunity.,,. And then you expect us, what? To wait for justice that we know is not going to come?”) And Sister Simone Campbell tells Molly who she thinks is the better Catholic in the presidential race. (“What we find is, Vice President Biden is totally in line with Pope Francis, caring for the unborn and caring for the born.) Plus! A dispatch from Qongress! A love letter to Mitch McConnell! (J/K) Pig farmers run wild! What to bring to Election Day! Who’s in Marco Rubio’s ratfuck brigade! And is there enough mayonnaise in the universe to turn Comrade Ron Johnson’s chicken shit into chicken salad? Want more? Become a Beast Inside member to enjoy a limited-run series of bonus interviews from The New Abnormal. Guests include Cory Booker, Jim Acosta, and more. Head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com to join now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi folks, it's Rick Wilson, and welcome to The Daily Beast's The New Abnormal. Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, a left-wing pundit and editor-at-large at the Daily Beast. I'm also an editor at The Daily Beast, a former Republican political strategist, best-selling author, and full-time troublemaker. We're here to have fun, sharp conversations with some of the smartest people in media, politics, business, and science that help make what's happening in the country and the world clearer. I'll try to keep Rick to the minimum number of F-bombs and try to keep our... kids, pets, and other wildlife sounds from invading our respective bunkers. Hey, Molly John Fast. Yes, Rick Wilson.

While I am in a secure undisclosed location, you are in the anarchist hellscape that is New York. Yes, I am. And I'm curious. Now that you've heard the president declare that he is indifferent, to put it mildly, to a peaceful transition of power, are you preparing for greater anarchy and riots in the streets of cannibal mutants started to roam the Upper East Side yet? I mean, what I think is interesting about the president's complete rejection of the peaceful transition of power, ergo, the main tenet of democracy, is that in New York, I don't think there's a single, I mean, there certainly are some people who want Trump to be president, but it's a pretty small, ever-shinking minority. I think that what you saw yesterday was, you know, saying the quiet part loud. And I've talked to a lot of people yesterday who were freaked out both at the Barton-Gillard.

an article in the Atlantic, and look, rightly so. He's not wrong in any way. But except he is wrong about some electorate. Let's look back on that in a second. And there was all this moment of like outrage and sadness. Like, oh, there he goes. He's going to defeat us. He's just, he doesn't care about the rules. He always breaks all the rules. And I think the correct response to this is defiance. I think the correct response to this is not to roll over and, and to try to shame anybody and

say, oh, this is awful. It's to say, hey, you know, thanks for telling us what you want to do. Thanks for being honest with us for once. You've always liked and admired the strong men figures, the Maduro's and the Castros and the Poutons and the Erdogans and the other fashionably clad mid-20th century European dictatorships. Thanks for being honest about it. And also, fuck you. We're coming to vote you out of office and humiliate you. I would like to read a tweet, which I think is absolutely like the most important thing when we talk about this. And it's from very left-leaning journalists. but it says, I think you'll absolutely agree with this. Lots of polling shows that Democrats are less likely to vote

if they believe Trump is going to steal the election. Trump's people have no doubt seen that polling too, which might be motivating Trump to be so honest about stealing the election, a win-win, so to speak. The more he can get the media and Democratic leaders to talk about his willingness to steal the election, the less likely it becomes that he has to steal it to win. Offly clever, if intentional.

I doubt it's intentional, but I think that's worth talking about. That's from Ryan Grimm at the intercept. Look, I think that Trump, the play with the post office, the attack on mail-in voting, the attack on the validity of the election counting process, and the fact that in 11 separate states so far that we've identified, Donald Trump has people either engaged in lawsuits to invalidate mail-in voting, lawsuits to invalidate the county methodologies, lawsuits to demand 100% signature checks. They're doing this all over the country. But here's the thing. These things will still only play at the margins if there is a massive voter turnout on November 3rd. These are still only marginalness. And I said this long time ago that both voter suppression and voter fraud in big elections are marginal factors. You know, voter fraud is actually really hard to pull off in an era where we have these things called computers. I don't know if you've heard of them. No, tell me more. But here's a bigger point. The psychology of Donald Trump and his people.

people is to cause maximum chaos, maximum dissension, maximum fear, a maximum sense of helplessness and a lack of agency. Well, folks, you all have fucking agency. This guy is a reckless day trading gambler who is hoping people will be afraid to go out and vote because the boogaloo's will be there. Or people will be afraid to go out and vote because his little green men from DHS and DOJ will be there. This is a guy who will do every fucking shenanagin' in the book.

You have to be as hard as he is. You have to be as tough as he is. You have to be ready to go out there and wait in line all fucking day. You have to bring a raincoat. You have to bring bottled water. You have to bring a jar to piss in. Oh, see, I knew we were going there. That's disturbing.

But go on. You know, never mind. I was going to speculate on a future porn movie title that may peak Donald Trump's interest, but I'm not going to. Oh, that's very classy of you, thank. And now you're all thinking about it. Thank you. Pissed off and pissed on the Election Day 2020 Donald Trump story. But I think that's right.

I think Trump is also low-key shopping. I mean, I always think with Trump, and Mary Trump said this best, Trump will do what he can get away with. All the time. All the time, he will do whatever he can scam, he will scam. Whatever he could play, he will play. Exactly. That's why I think what's so interesting is, repulsively. Republicans, Rob Portman, Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, and there was one other Republican who so far has come at and said they're not going to let him do that.

That needs to happen. That needs to happen. I'm not saying it will, but that needs to happen. The problem is, most of them tweeted elliptical Bible verses or said, What tweet are you referring to? I haven't seen any. What is Twitter? Does one tweet or what?

I don't understand. Is this something on that social media? web thing? I'll have to check my AOL. You know, they act like they've never fucking heard of it. And they know this is the primary vector of all his communications, but do not expect heroes from the Republican Party, even the ones who said yesterday, you know, this is unacceptable. And Mitch McConnell, who tweets his sort of zen cone of a tweet, the winner of the election will be the elected winner, whatever the fuck it was, he said. All those things, you cannot expect heroism from any of them because they are silent.

know what's going on. Marco Rubio and Rick Scott both know that right now in the state of Florida, there are consultants whom they know very, very well in Tallahassee, Florida, who are working with Ronda Santis and the governor's office to fuck the state over by replacing the slate of electors with pro-Trump electors if this thing goes wrong. Oh, really? They both know who these people are. So Florida can do that, but Pennsylvania can't. There are certain states they can't. Right. Florida, here's the thing. These consultants, and I'm not going to bust them today because I'm waiting for something more glorious to do both of them. They are working as we speak to identify a pro-Trump slate of electors.

Ron DeSantis, if it's close, we'll call the legislature into session. They will go there into Tallahassee. They will all vote for it. It's a 100% chance that every Republican will vote to replace the electors with a pro-Trump slated electors. Now, the only solution for this problem is the initial predicate. It cannot be close. It cannot be close. You have to fucking slaughter them.

So if you're a Florida voter, Florida voter, within the sound of my voice, and you give a shit about your democracy and the Republic, you need to get out there and vote. Do you think there's a safer method of voting in Florida? Look, Florida actually has very good electoral systems overall. Now, I believe in Florida, the problem this year will be that a lot of counties, and it's partly a response to COVID. And it's partly response to the fact that COVID has cut the legs out from underneath. The people who volunteer to do poll watching, they tend to be older. So you can't do that with COVID in the mix. There is a 100% chance in Florida.

The vote will be counted on election night. We will know on election night, the winner of the Florida vote. We pre-count early in absentee voting in Florida. We pre-count it. Right now, Joe Biden is doing very, very well in the absentee and early count in Florida. ballots drop on Friday in Florida. Early voting and absentee are looking good for Biden in Florida, but election day will be a lot of, will tend to be more Republican. We've seen this pattern in the past.

What I want to point out, though, is the fuckery that all these senators know is happening in their states. Have you heard a single one of them say a goddamn word about it? No. No. You have not. You know why? Because they understand that if they say a word against Trump, no matter how illegal, unconstitutional, unsmall D Democratic, their actions are, they don't care.

They are sold out to the sky on a fundamental basis. I mean, as always, you know, Mitt Romney goes up and down with the rest of America because one day he says he's going to vote to allow the nominee to come to the floor or to the committee. The next day, he comes out and says, this is the only one yesterday who said the president's words were unacceptable and un-American, whatever it was he said. And you will not find that in people who are now willing co-conspirators with Donald Trump. in these states to make sure that there's a contingency plan to replace the electors with pro-Trump electors if the things go wrong on election day. It is disgusting. The only way our democracy is

going to survive is if every Democrat goes out there and fucking votes. That is correct. And I also want to say this, Molly, because it's important. If you are a sworn federal law enforcement officer, member of the United States military or National Guard, you have not sworn an oath to Donald Trump. You've sworn an oath to the Constitution. Now, I realize that the people who are in the White House and the government and the administration as appointees could give a fuck about the Constitution or this country. They are bought in, sold out Trumpers, almost 100% of them. But for the rest of you who have sworn that sacred oath to this Constitution in this country,

there may be a moment where you are called to perform illegal actions or to execute illegal orders. And you understand, especially if you were a law enforcement person or a military official, you understand that you have no obligation. In fact, you have an obligation to reject illegal orders. So if you're in the DHS or one of Bill Barr's little green men on Election Day and Donald Trump says, go seize ballot boxes in Miami because I don't trust them, you have an obligation to say, fuck you. No, sir, three bags full.

This is going to be a moment in this country where every system and every person's moral framework is tested. There will be an accounting function in this country at some point where you will be a moment. be held accountable for your actions on that day. Yeah. I'm not saying collaborators will be shot, but... Yeah, that's getting cut. Yeah, that's getting cut. Let me say the most frightening thing that I've heard in the last few days.

In a state where the boogalus are marching around the state capitol a few weeks ago with long guns. Oh, I know this state. Someone asked a question rhetorically, if you've got armed people in or surrounding your capital and the state police don't do anything, what's going on there? And someone in that state's state police hierarchy said to me, what we should have done when they charged in is reacted with the same force we react to with Black Lives Matter protesters or Antiva protesters. But the problem is what you guys don't realize is 57, 67, 77, 87, 87 percent of those cops are on the side of those people. And that's not good.

And there is a problem on election day that is going to require local law enforcement, which may or may not be super pro-Trump. Yeah. There's a horrifying possibility that a lot of these people will have a political agenda in their law enforcement role. Let's put it that way. And do they have this whole time? Sure. And, of course, they frame the choice. Well, you're either with the cops or you're with the murdering Black Lives Matter protesters who are cop killers every single one.

Right, which is, of course, not true. Yeah, of course not. but everyone needs to anticipate the badness of this, of that possibility. I'm full of just, I'm just full of joy today. Let's do a minute here on Q&ON. You know about Q&ONN? I am aware of Q&ON. An enormous conspiracy that has radicalized,

full with the idea that there are child sex trafficking and eating in the Democratic Party. Is that fair? I believe that they have a belief that there is a cannibalistic child sex predator ring that dominates the Democratic Party today. While I disagree with many of the Democratic Party's policy preferences, I do not believe that there is such a cannibal child sex predator ring at the center of its management or its philosophy. Yeah, I think that's the understatement of the year.

It had been talked about for a while, but reply all the show made the definitive call that the, that cue is actually... The pick farmer, Jim Watkins. It lives on a pig farm south of Manila. I would like to just point out that I've been saying it was the pig farmer for months. It's true. The pig farmer is the guy, okay, he funded A. Chan, which is like 4chan except Sleazier. Is that fair?

4chan was the primordial ooze from which H. Chan sprung. Yes. It's a vomitous pool of teenage N-cells, middle-aged alt-writers, and globally first percentile dip shits. who believe that me more fair is real, dude. It's also a place where a lot of people from the Trump right in Washington who play more, pretend to play more respectable roles, also are frequent chip posters. Oh, that's right. Mm-hmm.

Because they're not very subtle with how they, like, post something on 4chan, and then five seconds later, reach, post it and say, I didn't know who said this, but it's hilarious. But Molly, here's what I find the most delightful moment of the, dissent of the Republican Party into the morass of lunatic conspiracy twaddle. The NRC is now putting out emails and direct and direct mail, I guess, trying to move voters against Democratic candidates saying things like, they're supporting sex predators. And it's all the language and the tropes, all the language and the tropes and the images that Q&N pushes out there. And look, here's

the thing. Part of me is amused by it because, you know, future minority leader Kevin McCarthy, Kevin, bro, I know you're not the brightest guy I've ever dealt with, but I just want to say, man, if I were you, I would not go out and get that plaque that says Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Because you're going to lose more seats. I think it's sort of interesting, though, that they've gone, that the Republican House has now gone full Q and on. I mean, that has to be a calculation that that's the only way they can win, right? Yes. It is exactly, it is a desperate and grim recognition that their prospects this year in places that are not deep, deep red states, and I mean hardcore red states, are de minimis. I mean, look, they lost 41 seats in 2018.

Do you know how many they're going to, they've got a solid chance of recapturing? Like any chance, about four or five. And those are just because those seats are pretty Republican overall. but largely, they're not looking at pickups. They're not looking at addition. They're looking at, at best, holding their ground. And I'd like to just give a shout out to the NRCC staff who has spent a good amount of time trolling me this year. Maybe you dumb fuckers should focus on your jobs.

Just saying. Just one last thing about the NRCC. It is interesting to me. They clearly, they are a number of Republican congressional candidates who are Q and non-substableness. supporters, right? A number. And at least one of them is probably going to win her seat. No, no, she will win her seat. The Democrat dropped out of the race, I think for health reasons. So this woman from Georgia will absolutely be in, in Congress. I don't think that's what they called it. I had to. I had to. I know you did. She'll be a

quangress woman. Oh, Jesus. It doesn't make it better to keep doing it. You know. Continue. Continue. Continue. Quintinue. I shall continue. Yes. Let's go. Jesus grace.

Danielle Moody Mills is the host of the woke AF podcast as well as the co-host of Democracy-ish. We're going to talk about Brianna Taylor and Donald Trump saying he won't transfer power peacefully. What did you think yesterday when the verdict came down? Where were you? What was your thinking? Just explain to me where you were and what you were feeling. Molly, I will say this, that I was home like most of us are during this pandemic. Look, I am a black queer woman in America, which it forces me to be a realist.

There has not been a situation that has played out with the killing of a black woman, black man, black child that has provided justice for not only the family, but the extended family of the black community. We've never seen it. As I was watching, the governor put out calls for the National Guard and the police officers to be in their latest GI Joe Fitz and the entire city to be shut down and boarded up and all of these things. We knew what was coming. There was never a desire or a search for the truth here, right? And the expectation that justice would prevail. And so when the news came down, what was so disgusting, and disturbing to me is that as I understood what wanton endangerment meant, what the Class D, what the classification meant, right? That Brett Hankinson was never being charged with homicide. He was never being charged with the murder of Brianna Taylor, which the medical examiners defined as the cause of her death. He was being charged with not having the right aim, with endangering her neighbors or the wall or the air. And so the very fact that we continue to have to scream into a black boy that Black Lives Matter, this entire case and the charges are indicative of the fact that

our lives don't matter. Do you understand that they did not even mention her name as the judge was reading out the charges? And apparently the other two Miles Cosgrove and Jonathan Mattingly are just completely exempt from responsibility, the other two officers that were involved in this brazen attack on Brianna Taylor and her boyfriend. So I feel as deflated as one can be that is understanding that this justice system was never built for us, but instead it was built on us. I'm curious to know your feelings about the Republican Attorney General in Kentucky. Oh. So. So. Because that speech, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's like I was brought up in a way where if you have nothing good to say, you say nothing. But then I became a podcaster. So Daniel Cameron, the Kentucky Attorney General General is an embarrassment to his profession and to the community that he shares melanin with.

As is often said in the black community, not all skinfolk or kinfolk, that is indicative of the show that Daniel Cameron decided to put on yesterday. I understand that the man, but a few weeks ago, showed us who he was when he decided to go and speak at the Republican National Convention and sing and tap dance Donald Trump's praises. We know that instead of pursuing justice for Brianna Taylor, that he was holding his engagement party, no mask, no social distancing in Kentucky, while Brianna Taylor's family was figuring out how to move forward without their loved one. His faux crocodile tears, his dissension against influencers and what he refers to as outside agitators shows you exactly who Daniel Cameron is. He is a toady for the Republican Party. For Donald Trump, he is a disgrace. He is a disgrace. I think a lot about the idea of like the Bobby Kennedy, A.G.,

who was there to protect the people as opposed to the police. And I just wonder, just to get you a little more on this. I mean, I just think about the idea that justice on the side of black women. I don't know what getting justice on the side of black women looks like, right? You know, Malcolm X told us. us way back when that the most disrespected person in the United States is the black woman.

Right? The most unprotected person, he said, in the United States is the black woman. And we see it time and time again. It's why there are campaigns called say her name, right? Because we're not, we're invisibleized in this country. When we look

and say like, what about those good attorney generals, we have to understand that they are locked step with the police. They work for. them, they work with them, right? The entire system is broken and we keep looking at a system that has been shattered. As many people say, the system isn't shattered. The system is working exactly how the system was designed to work. I mean, the thing that I'm the most shocked by, continual erasure of black women. And I mean, as a listener, what can people do to hold space for black women? Because

this is going to be a long journey. No, no, no. I'm often asked what white allies can do, what you know, what white women can do. And what I will say is that you have, the privilege of your whiteness provides a currency that we will never be afforded. And so what I say to those people that have platforms like you wonderfully do is to give space, right, for black women, for black people to take up, right? Because we're not afforded that. Again, me screaming Black Lives Matter goes into space, right? You doing it is something different, right? And so I ask white allies, I ask white women in particular, talk to each other, get on the same page, talk to each other. Me trying to convince white people to do the right thing is something that is never going to happen. I need for white

people to talk to other white people and hold each other accountable. It's so painful. I just live in continual disbelief of how badly black women are treated and this other part of it, which is that black women have delivered for the Democratic Party again and again and again. I mean, I can't imagine how enraging that must be to you. While I was watching all of these barricades being put up in Kentucky, right? While you watch all of this happening, I'm saying to myself, how much does this country expect black people to swallow. How much else do you want from us? You want to be able to kill us with impunity. You want to gun down our people in the street like they did to Mike Brown and Ferguson and allow our bodies to rot on the pavement in front of our family and friends for four hours.

And then you expect us what? To wait for justice that we know is not going to come and then berate us when buildings are set on fire because you care more about property than you do the value of human life. You want to make sure that these buildings in Kentucky are safe, but you could give a damn about the people, the black people of Kentucky. Then we're looked at as being uncivilized. We're looked at as being these agitators, as being these anarchists, as being these looters. And I don't know another community that has looted more than white folks. You can't point someplace else and tell me that there is another culture, another space that has created so much of violence, but we're the ones that are looked at in this way after being treated consistently

and persistently like trash. I think, and I could be wrong, that what happened with the Republican party is they saw the writing on the wall, that the population is changing. And that soon elections for this Republican Party, you know, this racist population is really scared because they know that the population is completely shifted and that's no longer about to be. I mean, this seems like the last stand of white supremacy. Can you talk a little bit about that? I mean, what we have to look at is that every horrible thing that has ever happened on this planet, from slavery to the Holocaust to apartheid to the oppression of peoples around the globe,

has all been legal, right? It's all been legal. And so when you create laws and then as a party become imprisoned by those laws that you've created, and you have then allowed those laws to be perverted and manipulated by a lawless group of people, you have to then reconcile with yourself. Is it time to break that? Is it time to recognize that these no longer exist? No, I agree.

I mean, it's really, it's really just a scary, scary, scary time. American life. So there was an article in the Atlantic yesterday, which basically said Trump can throw out all the electors, you know, be like, well, the votes may not support him in Michigan, but he can have Trump electors. You know, he can do that in different states. Actually, there are checks and balances there, and that's not actually true in a lot of states. I mean, look, this election isn't about Connecticut. It's not about New York. It's not about California. It's about like five states, right? Pennsylvania, Michigan. Florida, Arizona, Wisconsin, Ohio. Right. And possibly Texas and maybe Georgia. So I do feel like

there are Democratic governors in a lot of those states too, which is a sort of buttress. I mean, the good news, I do sort of feel like the decentralization of the elections may save us, but I feel like it could go either way. And it's really very scary. Yeah, I think that, look, we need to have a plan B. And this is what Democrats, again, are failing to do because they think that the laws are going to save us. Every time something happens, people are looking for those four Republicans that are going to have a conscience. They've drank the Kool-Aid, folks. Like, there is no turning back. Stop looking for people to be like, oh, this is so wrong. You mean me having all of this power is bad? They're not going to do it.

And so I feel like folks need to wake up to the fact that Donald Trump is right now having contingency meetings with Republican governors, with Republican electors to figure out how to bypass a Biden election. He owns the Department of Justice. He owns the Supreme Court. He owns the Senate. So again, the machinations of power that we've put in place and have been in place for 240 plus years are working against us. So at some point, we need to work outside of those laws that no longer exist. Before we get into things, we have a fun little treat. There are so many insane things happening in the world right now, and two episodes a week just aren't enough to cover it all. So the new abnormal is going to release a limited run series of bonus interviews over the next few weeks for, beast inside members only. We'll release a new one each Sunday, but listen carefully. Only beast

inside members will have access to these. So head over to the new abnormal.org.com to become a beast inside member now. That's new abnormal.the dailybeast.com. Sister Simone Campbell is kind of amazing. She's the executive director of network as well as a lobbyist for Catholic social justice and leader of nuns on the bus. She's also a lawyer. Can you talk to me a little bit about how you became a nun and also how you, the social justice piece and how those two things fit together? I grew up in Southern California. I grew up in a low-income neighborhood and we had the neighborhood television and kids from the neighborhood would come and watch. Among the things we watched was the news. And I saw

in the civil rights era, kids in Birmingham standing up to Bull Connor, I remember vividly. And I was so taken with their courage and their power that I thought as a young person, if they could stand up, I should stand up. And then that evolved over time as I grew older. And then I met my religious community, the Sisters of Social Service, who are all about engaging the social issues of our time. And so I went to Catholic school, the teachers in Catholic school always taught us that Jesus wasn't about 2,000 years ago. Jesus was about now and how we embody faith. So that's why we. combination, commitment to justice in the civil rights movement, Jesus is alive, my community as engaged in this issue, it just seemed a natural step. So I joined my community after my freshman

year of college and been a part of it ever since. Can you talk to me about how you see this election as a person of faith? This election probably is among the most critical that I've experienced in our life. But I think the important piece to see about faith in this election is that faith is so much more than a political manipulation or a political issue. Faith is, for me, is about that deep, quiet listening in the contemplative space, listening to the spirit, listening to each other, listening to the needs of our time so that something new can emerge. For me, that's all about what faith does.

It is, for me, as a Christian, it's like Jesus walking towards those who are suffering, walk towards them and find healing going forward. So in this election, our nation is suffering. Our nation is crippled by political craftness and the breakup of all sorts of norms that we experienced in our governance at this point. And so as a Catholic, my effort is to bring healing and to open up the fact that the political, the Republican political analysis that this is just about the issue of Roe v. Wade or the issue of criminalization of abortion is wrong. Catholics are about all of life. And we follow Pope Francis in ensuring that we care for the unborn, but Pope Francis

says equally sacred is our care for the born. So this is a much broader conversation in this political climate. We Catholics need to speak out and become multi-issue voters. And so that's what we're trying to ensure happens in this election cycle. What do you think about this idea that Trump has said numerous times that Catholics should vote for him because Biden isn't a good Catholic or God doesn't support Joe Biden. Can you talk to that? Can you believe that the president would say God doesn't support a fellow human being? Well, the thing that's that is abundantly clear, we created based on Pope Francis's teaching, we created a equally sacred

scorecard to mark how the two President Trump and former Vice President Biden, how do they compare. And when you look at that scorecard, what you see is, it is true that President Trump says he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, if that's your measure of caring for the unborn, well, that's one way to look at it. So he gets a check there. But he doesn't support health care for pregnant women or additional nutrition. He doesn't support families having access to health care. He seeks to undermine any of the housing nutritional benefits. He denies the crisis of racism. in our society. Pope Francis says it's equally sacred to work at ending racism. So the list goes on. So what we find is Vice President Biden is totally in line with Pope Francis, caring for the unborn and caring for the born. And it's President Trump that seems to be totally out of line. So it's easy for us to say, well, as a Catholic, I need to make that choice. And also, I mean, I'm not Catholic, but it does seem like Biden goes to church a lot. Vice President Biden goes to church regularly. And he carries a rosary in his pocket, which I have to say is more than I do.

But he finds it as an anchor and a comfort. He is a reflective man who cares about fellow human beings. He has empathy, compassion. Having been in a crowd with him a couple of times, you see him drawn to talk to people and how people's faces soften because he doesn't bring anger and division and his self-interest. he brings an interest in them. And so for me, that is a true, a true faithful response. Right. That is fascinating. That's a really interesting point, that idea of faith. Why do you think that Republicans feel that they owned Catholics and Catholicism, even in spite of the fact that, right, Kennedy was a Democrat?

Biden is a very passionate Catholic. I mean, I don't know what religion Trump is. is race married? I always say I always wished for an atheist president and I sadly got my way. Well, that just might be true, Jesse, especially because he needed the military to clear the path for him to get to a church. It's the only time we've seen him.

Why do you think the Republican Party feels they have you got, you know, Catholics? And this is where I have to confess my sin. I think a big part of it was from the 1980s when the far right grabbed onto this idea of that the only issue we should care about was abortion. And that I didn't want to be identified with the far right because I just saw that they didn't care about the born at all. And so I was silent. And so my sin of silent. And not that I would have had the power to change this dynamic.

Yeah, I wouldn't blame yourself. But yes. Yeah. But a bunch of us pulled away and didn't engage directly. so we left this whole field to them claiming Catholic and this single issue. It was so wrong. And so now we're having to make up for lost time and to speak up bluntly. Catholics are about caring for the unborn. The criminalization of abortion and this fight over Roe v. Wade, it's been going on for 50 years. And in that time, no help for pregnant women has happened. Now the Affordable Care Act, what is thought? That provided care for pregnant women. And you know, before the Affordable Care Act, Act, it was common for health insurance policies to exclude covering maternity care. The Affordable Care Act required insurances to cover maternity care. Now, you would think Republicans, their pro-life message, would say, what a great idea.

You know what they're doing? Is they're attempting to undermine it completely? So that, to me, illustrates how this is about political opportunism, political messaging. It's not really about pro-life at all. It's about pro-birth. The most you could say about it is that it's pro-birth. Are there more nuns? Are there more people like you who see this truth of Trumpism? Oh, I think so. You know, we started our virtual nuns on the bus because we can't do a physical nuns on the bus. But we've started on Wednesday and we've held a couple of town halls, a couple of meetings already.

But what's abundantly clear doing it in this virtual world is that people are keenly aware of the lack of leadership and they're waking. up to the fact that this is a time where we need to be more engaged in careful analysis of who we're going to vote for. And we see people also practicing at our town halls how they're going to talk to their neighbors about this. So part of our work on nuns on the bus is to give people tools of how we talk about this broader frame, being a multi-issue voter, caring for all of life. And then we kind of commission missionaries to spread out on Zoom, the internet, or if possible, with neighbors, or maybe even in a grocery store, properly socially distant, and have a conversation with people about how important this election is and how we have to vote for all of life and for the care of a federal government that we can, in fact, save our democracy. I think it's that critical. Yeah, me too.

I definitely think that. So as an outside observer of Catholicism today, it seems that the media often presents that there's a huge rift in Catholicism and that Pope Francis is this dividing person within the Catholic religion. I wanted to see your perspective as an insider about is he really dividing the religion or do you feel that it's united behind him? There is really no gap between Pope Francis's teaching and say Pope Benedict's teaching, Pope John Paul the second. teaching Pope John the 23rd on Pope Paul the 6th, all of them, it's a consistent line. The difference with Pope Francis is, his writings are more accessible than the other pope. I remember Pope Benedict wrote this encyclical, a letter to the world called Caritas and Beritate. They used the Latin title, and its charity is truth.

Well, that's lovely. And he had fabulous teaching in there about the importance of all of our capital. Catholic social teaching about the rights of labor, the importance of caring for each other in community. It was really well-research, well-written, very carefully crafted, and boring as could be. So nobody read. So people don't know that that teaching has been a consistent through line since the 1890 as part of our faith with Pope Leo the 13th. But every Pope since Pope Leo the 13th have written about this critical engagement of faith in the public square, faith in politics. Pope Francis, he's just way better at being able to communicate this well to the people and his pastoral style.

Well, I do think part of it's because he comes from the Western Hemisphere. So we moved away from Europe. We got somebody with a warm, passionate heart. And he communicates that so much more effectively than his predecessors. but it's the same teaching. We're just waking up to him. He does seem as a very big, as a out, out, out, out, outsider. He seems like he resonates a lot more.

And he's curious about people. And his whole theology is a theology of encounter. And so it's all about meeting people, learning their needs, and then reflecting on the gospel in the light of their needs. What do you think of the future, what do you feel like the future is for the Catholic Church? in America right now. Like what, what, besides this election, where do you see? What else needs to happen? I mean, I see there's like, we're on the precipice of a financial collapse. We're going to have all these sick people from coronavirus. We're going to have all this morning to do. It keeps striking me that we're on the edge of a major mental health crisis.

And so I'm curious to know if you think that the Catholic churches will be able to help the American people with that. Oh, well, as a person of faith, I'll say, let us pray to the Lord that we can. Because I agree with you that when there is an ebb in this moment of coronavirus and the pandemic, we are going to have to come together in some new ways and being comfortable in each other's presence. And how do we weep together? Even before this, with a horrible immigration policy of this administration, I was down on the southern border doing, and we did a press conference. And I wasn't supposed to speak at the press conference, but at the last minute I got called in in the middle of the press conference. I get in. I have nothing prepared. But I had been in the back of the audience just weeping for our nation, just weeping for our nation. And so here I am. My eyes all red. I have tears streaming down my cheeks. I'm standing on the podium in front of these microphones. And all I could do is talk about how we need to weep for our nation and for our worried for our future. And after that I began. And that's what actually got picked up in the press. and, you know, pictures and all this. Not my most flattering picture ever, so my pride was tempted. But the thing that became so critical

was how important it is to weep, to have normalized responses to abnormal behavior. And somehow I think faith can help us do that. You know, Mowai, I'd like to describe today's fuck-that-guy potentialities as a target-rich environment. Yes, tell me more. There are so very many people who are deserving of the fuck-that-go.

guy title. I mean, just saying Trump, because he wants to burn down our Democratic Republic, would be a throwaway. That's too easy. Yeah, I agree. I would like to offer up as my fuck that guy, Comrade, Russia, Ron Johnson. Russia, Ron. Ron Johnson, who for months teased this massive report. That was given to him. The Durham report. Yeah, no, no. This is the Senate report on Hunter Biden. Ron Johnson teased this fucking Ukraine story for months. And it was all the fucking horseshit stuff that the

SVR and the GRU have been giving Rudy in Ukraine through Dirk Hatch and all that clown posse. And they were rubbing their little paws together and they were like, oh yeah, it's going to be hard. We're going to destroy Joe Biden. We're going to

show that Joe and Hunter are in corrupt in relationships with Ukrainian politicians. This report comes out. They have labored mightily to give birth to a mouse, okay? Is that an expression or is that just Rick Wilson weirdness? I think that's an expression. It might be a Rick Wilsonism, but it seems like an expression to me.

This is the political equivalent of a wet fart. There's no there there. This thing was the biggest flop. Even the right-wing media was like, oh, yeah, good job. You can't even, you can't, there's not enough mannays in the universe to turn this chicken shit into chicken salad. But what Ron Johnson has done is, does it demonstrate it very clearly, he is going to do everything he can to use and abuse his Senate position to try to fuck Joe Biden. And Russia, Ron Johnson, you are today's fuck that guy. I do think it's interesting. The Times article

about it mentioned that drew largely on the New Yorker profile. Right. Which is never a good sign. My fuck that guy, it's going to be Mitch McConnell. During Mitch McConnell's speech on the floor when he was mourning, when he was morning, quote unquote, morning RBG, he said something to the effect of don't make this a continuation of how you slandered Brett Kavanaugh. So he didn't even take the time to say his respects to RBG. he immediately went into attacking Democrats for the fact that there were allegations against Brett Kavanaugh. And so, and then he proceeded to whip the vote for a nominee who doesn't exist right now. Molly, may I ask you a question? Yes, please.

Have you met Mitch McConnell? This is so, this is so extremely on brand. He does not care about anything that cues anybody else. He is not about decency or about propriety or about tradition. He is about, and this is, by the way, I mean this as a compliment. He is the most absolutely focused person on retaining political power you have ever met. He would burn down anything to stay in office and to stay in power.

And while people go, that's so unacceptable. How immoral, we can't live. Guess what? That's the world you fucking live in. And that's also what democracy is built on is the idea of the quest for power. I mean, I don't think that's unrealistic to have that. But a lot of Democrats are, they like shake their heads and go, what just happened?

What just happened? Yeah, the little fucking turtle guy came up and slit your throat and then cut your guts out and then danced on them, said, fuck you and walked away. That's what happens. And it's not pretty. I have one more question for you about Mitch McConnell and this situation. If he fills this seed, he increases the chances of losing his majority. Can you talk about that a little bit?

The pro-life, pro-choice split in this country is to some degree regional. It tends to be more pro-life in the southern tier states and to Democrats' disappointment in some of the northern tier states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. There's a much larger percentage of the overall voting population tends to be more pro-life. This year, there are Senate races in five or six extremely pro-choice states. Maine, very pro-choice. Colorado, very pro-choice. Alaska, very pro-choice. Arizona, pretty pro-choice, not as much as the state.

the others. It does hurt McConnell politically in a lot of these places. Right. And the other thing we talked about this before was that the people who are very jazzed about the pro-life stuff are already Trump's base. Yes, they're already in the pool. They're not, they're not. He doesn't get new voters on the fight for abortion. Yes, correct. Whereas Biden does. And I think politically it could be problematic for the Republicans, especially in states with the younger population, like Colorado and Arizona. Dr. Wilson has completed to today's lecture. On that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking with smart folks from The Daily Beast and beyond from media,

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