The Daily Beast Podcast - Ivanka Got Real Quiet Real Fast in the Group Text After Nov. 6

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

There’s only text sent by former First Daughter Ivanka Trump among the 2,319 CNN-obtained text messages between Trump’s inner circle from the days after the 2020 election and something about that feels peculiar to The New Abnormal podcast co-host Andy Levy. He and co-host Molly Jong-Fast tackle those in this episode along with special guests Congressman Ro Khanna (D-CA), who shares his thoughts on Elon Musk buying Twitter, and Amanda Litman, Co-Founder & Co-Executive Director of Run for Something. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Zhang Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic Invo. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart, conversations with the wisest and funniest and funniest people in science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down, and on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. What an interesting show we have today. Rokana, who represents California's 17th congressional district, will talk to us about all the things Dems can be doing to improve their chances in the midterms. Then we'll talk to Amanda Littman, who co-founded Run for Something, and she's going to talk to us about the down-ballot races that will affect so much this year.

But first, let's have some fun. Andy, Levy. Molly Junkfast? Listen to May. Welcome to the new abnormal. We're about to open the show and we get a tranche of text messages from CNN. They are a percentage of Meadows text, not to be confused with Rachel Maddow. Mark Meadows released a lot of text messages before he realized what was in them.

He held back a thousand. Imagine what's in those 1,000 text messages. Yeah, and I think they're all from like January. Yes, right when they were trying to do a bill. In these text messages, there is a lot of stuff you could imagine have happened, but maybe weren't completely sure. I'm going to read from January 17th, 2021. This is after the insurgents. In our private chat with only members, several are saying the only way to save our republic.

By the way, at this point, Marjorie Taylor Green has been in Congress, for nine days, okay? Is for Trump to call for Marshall law, spelled M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L, like Marshall's the store. I don't know on those things. I just wanted you to tell him. They stole the election. We all know it. They will destroy our country next.

Please tell him to declassify as much as possible so we can go after Biden and anyone else, explanation point. Yeah, this is, by the way, a far cry from what she was texting. On January 6th itself, she reached out to Meadows for advice about how to prepare for objections to certifying the election. But also, on the day of, she texted to Meadows. Mark, I was just told there was an active shooter on the first floor of the Capitol. Please tell the president to calm people. This isn't the way to solve everything.

I have to say, like, all those text messages where they're like, people are rioting, where you got Don Jr. being like, this is ruining his legacy. Like, what did they think was going to happen? Well, the good thing is that they very quickly settled on, like later in the day, I think. They have a text from Jason Miller to Meadows that they basically say, he says, Call me crazy, but ideas for two tweets from POTUS. One, bad apples, likely antifa or other crazed leftists, infiltrated today's peaceful protest over the fraudulent vote count. And then the second one is the fake news media who encouraged this summer's violent

and radical riots. He's obviously talking about Black Lives Matter, are now trying to blame peaceful and innocent MAGA supporters for violent actions. our people should head home and let the criminals suffer the consequences. So they shifted the texts from the morning of January 6th. They're all, you got to get the president to stop this. The president needs to tell his people to stop doing this. And then by like a little before 4 o'clock, they all start saying, you know, oh, we now have to start saying that this was Antifa and this wasn't, you know, a MAGA riot. So Marjorie Taylor Green goes from in the morning texting that, you know,

the president needs to stop this. at 352 she says, Mark, we don't think these attackers are our people. We think they are antiphah dressed as Trump supporters. So it's just like it's a great peek into the sort of empty heads that can just be filled with anything. So basically, when they were literally in fear for their lives, they knew what was going on. But as soon as things had calmed down, it was like, okay, now we got to figure out a way to blame this on. other people. And it's just an amazing little journey, like a six-hour journey or three-hour journey, whatever it is, of how they arrived on this new talking point and then all started going by it.

The thing that's amazing to me is like we are always sort of told not to call these people stupid because it's degrading to them. And like, this is how the left loses. We call the right stupid. Okay. I'm going to go out a limb here, though. If you're texting about overthrowing the United States government, maybe you are stupid. I don't have a problem with calling the stupid people stupid. Some of them, they're not all stupid. Some of them know exactly what they're doing. But some of them are incredibly stupid, including Marjorie Taylor Green, which is why I've always said, I don't think, you know, she's not a grifter to me. She is just legitimately stupid. And I don't, I don't have a problem with saying that. And I don't think that that's why the left loses elections by saying that

someone like Marjorie Taylor Green who talks about Jewish space lasers is stupid rather than saying, well, you know, maybe what she meant was or trying to somehow bring this into, you know, bring her bizarre takes into some kind of reality where they simply don't belong. Yes, that's certainly true. Look, there's so many things in these text messages. As we are in this dramatic reading now, I would like to just open the door to some of the content. Can you read from the book of Gomer? Capital Police told me last night they'd been warned that today there'd be a lot of Antifa dressed in red Trump shirts and hats and would likely get violent.

I mean, again, I don't fucking know. Obviously they didn't say to him that it was going to be Antifa. I think he might have added that flourish. Yes. I think you're casting aspersions on his asparagus. on Molly. He's almost done. In January, there's no more Gohmert in Congress. So, but Mad Schlapp is forever. Please get four or five killers in remaining courts. Need outsiders who will torch the place. Local folks won't do it. Lawyers and operators. Get us in these states worried that Rana,

not in M.I. And then Meadows, I may need to get you and mercy to PA. I mean, these people, This is like watching a coup in real time, but the people who are doing it are morons. Yeah, which, again, we should be thankful for because if they weren't, we probably wouldn't be allowed to do this podcast right now. Right. Also, you want to point out that when he says, Need You and Mercy, he's talking about Slap's wife, Mercedes. Yes. Because that's hard to grasp, I think, if you're just hearing it and not reading it. But again, going back to Mortuary Taylor Green, remember that.

On the day of January 6th, she was texting Meadows saying the president needs to stop this. And then on January 7th, she is saying, I don't think that President Trump caused the attack on the Capitol. It's not his fault. Absolutely no excuse. And I fully denounce all of it. But after shutdowns all year in a stolen election, people are saying they have no other choice. And then Meadows replied, thanks, Marjorie. My favorite is like where Bernie Carrick enters the Chad.

You'll remember Bernie Carrick as a corrupt New York City police officer? I don't even remember who the fuck is he again? He was police chief of New York. Right. Corrupt police chief from New York. Like, we have all the worst people coming down from, you know, Rudy, Bernie Carrick. Sir, we are airborne on the way to Michigan from Arizona. We're going to need a hotel for the team and two vehicles to pick us up.

Happy to walk AG through our evidence. Match slap, writes to. Mark Meadows, it's overwhelming. What I love about that is he apparently did not get the hotel and the two vehicles paid for because it says reached for comment by CNN. Carrick confirmed the text was his and said that he never received a credit card for those travel expenses, paid for himself, and was later reimbursed. Like, okay.

I'm glad to hear that he was reimbursed because I had been worried that he might have fronted his own money. It's important when you're, when you're, when you're wrong, Running a coup, you have to keep a steady hand on the budget. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to know, I mean, if people are going to spend coup money, they need to be reimbursed for that.

And you just, like in the Venmo thing, you just, you know, there's no, there's no, there's no emoji for coup yet, but you just have to type, you have to write coup. You need to date it because there are other coups, right? Mike Lindell, the Mark Meadows, hey, Mark, I felt I was supposed to text you this message. I guess God told him to, you being a man of faith and on the front lines of the decisions that are going to be historical, explanation point. I would ask that you pray for wisdom and discernment from God, explanation point. You are one of the people the president trusts the most, period.

That being said, I want to add my input. That's an ellipse. Everything Sydney has said is true, explanation point. I'm not going to read all of this. But I'm just going to say we have to get the machines on everything we already have proves that the president won by millions of votes explanation point. I have read and not, I mean, I don't know. These people are like, some of them are stupid, some of them have, like, mental health issues.

Discuss. Lundell is clearly, I think, in the latter group of that. He ain't right, as my grandpappy used to say. By the way, that text goes on for like about, that text is about three paragraphs long. It's the longest text. Anyone said? And then Meadows replies, Thanks, brother, praying for a miracle.

That is the blowoff right there is what that is, I think. Yeah. Thanks for your input. Love you. You know, we got this. Amazing stuff. Just incredible stuff. I'm curious to know what you think.

Like, is there anyone in this group who you think was like, wow, I'm with a bunch of idiots? Or do you think they were all like, we're going to win this thing? No, that's a really good question. Which of these people are the true believers? and which of them are just, which of them are stupid and which of them are neither but just went along. Like, I think there's three groups. There's the true believers who they're not stupid, but they think that the election was stolen. There's the Mike Lindell's who are like not right in the head.

But then, okay, so two days after election day, Ivanka Trump is sending a note telling people to keep the faith and the fight. Now, I will maybe think that on November 5th, because I don't even think everything was officially called on November 5th, if I remember correctly, although I could be wrong. It was not called. So, all right, at that point, it's one thing to say, keep the fight. It's her dad, whatever. But she's conspicuously absent from any of these other texts, like once things start getting crazy with Dominion and the voting machines and, you know, whatever. So I kind of feel like she probably does have enough of a brain to realize probably by like November 7th or 8th that this thing was done. Or am I just, am I giving her too much credit?

I think you're giving her too much credit. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe. I think she's, you know, she's not real smart. But she is real supportive, which I guess we see in this text message. She is, which, you know, good for her. Family is important. And Bill Steffian. Family. Family.

And Jason Miller, I guess. And Jason Miller. That's right. Family and that really sleazy guy who worked for your dad's campaign. Really, it's all about that. I have to say there's not a single piece of these text message. There's not a single sort of part of it that isn't absolutely what you thought they were texting each other. Right.

It's still pretty kind of shocking. see it all lined up together. Yeah, it is. And a big thank you to whoever did leak these. Yes. I appreciate that. Because, you know, otherwise we would have had to talk about Elon Musk or something. Nobody wants that.

So he really did us a solid by leaking these at just the perfect time, which I'm sure is a coincidence. I am not saying that a new abnormal listener is the leaker. I'm not saying. But if you are. If you are. Dianu. my friend, as we say in the Jewish faith.

Yes. Yes. Baruch Hashem. That's right. Let's take it over to David Purdue. Perhaps you've heard of David Purdue. He was a one-term senator. I do.

I like his chicken. Oh, is he related to the Purdue's? No, no, he's not. No. And then he is pretty much without. Well, then he has no good qualities. With nothing to recommend him. He was defeated by John Ossoff, a young Jewish filmmaker.

I can say this. I am Jewish. One of the things about him that I know will shock both of you is that he's a huge liar. No. Yes. Whoa, like what? Give me one example. I can give you a lot of examples, but he's basically running on the idea that Trump won. So now we have a face-off between Brian Kemp, who I'm no fan of, but who at least admits that Trump didn't win the 2020 election, and David Perdue, who will do any. to hold elected office. Yeah, he basically, he opened a debate the other night.

I think it was Sunday night, maybe. He opened a debate with Kemp by saying that the election was stolen from Donald Trump in 2020 and that Trump was the real winner. That's how the Republican debates are going down in Georgia. In case you're wondering. In case for some bizarre reason, you thought that wasn't how the debates were going in Georgia. That's how the debates are going in Georgia. You're going to see more and more of this because the Republican Party has now, at this point, one, you know, they don't have a platform.

They don't have any popular legislation. They don't have anything. All they have is the belief that democracy is bad if their guy doesn't win. And when you have only one party that believes in the central tenant of our governance, I think that's not good. Probably not. I will argue, though, that they do have a platform, and I think Rick Scott has articulated it, and I think it involves taxing poor people. Yes, they love to tax people. Not enough people are saying this.

But, you know. I love that moment where you saw Rick Scott after Mitch McConnell had said to him, please don't tell anyone our secret that our legislation is wildly and popular. And Rick Scott was like, let me just put out this pamphlet. It's glossy. And then you had Rick Scott on Fox News saying it makes sense. sense that people should have a little skin in the game. Skin in the game, yeah. Skin in the game.

Like to give him some skin in the game, yeah. When you're bald, skin is very important. He would like to do that to other people. I don't know. I don't know where I was going with that. It's all about the skin. Rocana represents California's 17th Congressional District and sits on the Committee on Armed Services,

the Committee on Agriculture, as well as the Committee on Oversight and Reform. Welcome back to the new abnormal, Rokana. Thanks for having me back on. My first question is like you don't have to answer it if you have no thoughts, but I'm curious to know what you think about Elon Musk buying Twitter and if there's like a regulatory question there. I mean, I think it's for the board of directors of Twitter

and for the agencies to ensure he's complying with the law. But what I take away from it is that we need as many of these social media forums so that you don't just have a couple forums as choice. But I don't think it's for sort of members of Congress to opine on what Twitter shareholders should or should not do as long as they're complying with the law. I feel like we're in this interesting time. And I'm curious, too, to know what you think about this. Because I feel like it's really a progressive issue, but it should be it's an easy win for Democrats that, you know, there's this Amazon Union and then the Starbucks Union and it really feels like this is growing. What is your take on this? I think it's fantastic.

The unionization at Amazon, you see actually it's happening at Apple with CWA. You know, it's long overdue. I mean, the reality is these companies have made trillions of dollars of wealth. And working families are not getting the pay, even though they're contributing, even though they're helping package the goods and deliver the goods and ensure that companies like Apple are running. So the fact that they'll unionize, the fact that they'll get higher pay is all a good thing. Why do you think that some Democrats are not as pro-union? I mean, like, it feels like an easy win to me.

I don't get it. I think they're still stuck in this idea that of the Reagan paradigm where he demonized unions, demonized them as uncompetitive. But now the issue is largely America is a wide income disparity, income inequality. And the fact that, you know, there's $11 trillion dollars in market cap in my district, but the middle class and working class are left out. And so one solution, it's not the only solution, is to have stronger bargaining, right? So we could bring wages up. And you know what?

We can afford it, given how much wealth is being generated. So talk to me about what you see is happening right now. I mean, clearly inflation is something that is just making everyone crazy. I know there aren't a lot of options, but what do you think that the sort of Democrats' best path forward here is? I proposed with Sheldon White House a tax on the windfall profits of big oil and then giving a check back to working class Americans who are paying six bucks at the pump. That would be one thing we can do. We ought to be producing more things, passing the president's compete tax so we can make semiconductors here. That'll help increase production and bring prices down.

Wait, how would semiconductors here help bring down prices? Well, because it's been a supply shock. I mean, if inflation is just too much money chasing too few goods, yes, we've had an increase of demand because of the Fed policy and because of government spending during COVID. But we've also had a decrease of supply because so many things aren't coming from China and South Korea. And the supply shortage has led to basically too much money chasing too few goods, which by definition is inflationary. Now, if we start bringing semiconductors and producing things here, bringing more supply chains here,

that will have a deflationary impact. I'm not saying that's going to solve it in time for the midterm election over the long term. Those are the types of things that will tackle inflation. What do you think about the gas tax? I think that's a state-by-state issue. It depends on this state. But a lot of times those taxes are used to fund critical infrastructure. Right.

You know, in California, we can provide a rebate without touching the gas tax just because we have so much revenue from other taxation. and I'm supportive of giving some relief to people who are struggling with the gas bills. With the oil situation, with that oil money back, you wouldn't ever be able to pass that, right? Because you have these very right-wing Democratic senators. I mean, you could only do that if you passed it in reconciliation, right? True. There's no way we could get 60 Senate votes for it. But the hope is to do it through reconciliation and the hope is for the president to take action, even rhetorically.

against big oil. So they realized that you can't ask the American public to sacrifice and then have big oil making all these profits and basically giving it to Wall Street and stock buyback. So what we're talking about here, just for people listening at home, is the difference between the price of crude oil and the price you're getting at the pump. Crude oil is not as expensive as the markup you're getting at the pump. And the pump, these gas stations are now making 50 cents a gallon or some crazy quite high numbers because they've kind of priced in this idea that gas prices are high. Absolutely. But a lot of the profit is being pocketed by big oil companies, not the 100,000 or so gas stations. I mean, they're making some money too. But if you had big oil

reduced the price instead of putting all their money into stock buybacks and dividends, you would have some relief for the consumer at the pump. And if they aren't going to do that, then they should be taxed on those windfall profits and that profit basically distributed to those paying prices at the pump. Why do you think Democrats aren't more aggressive with reconciliation? I mean, I know that historically a Republican had reconciliation. They couldn't get the parliamentarian to agree to it. So they fired the parliamentarian.

I mean, why do you think there isn't more aggression there with the way Democrats are negotiating this? I called for them to put pressure and overturn the parliamentarian. on the $15 minimum wage. I thought it was absurd. The parliamentarian didn't know what she was talking about, frankly, to say that the minimum wage doesn't have economic impact. And we should have on the substance overruled her. So I do think we need to be more aggressive. Are you sometimes frustrated with your party that they're not, like it feels like there's a kind of stuckness with some Democrats as we had towards the midterms?

Like the people want, and I mean, the thing that I'm seeing with this polling, and I've talked to Carville about this, is that some of the negative polling for Democrats is really that the democratic basis is mad. Well, I think people want a sense of energy and motion and forward-looking efforts to solve their problems. And right now, I think it looks like we're too much at a standstill. We had good momentum when we did American Rescue Plan, Recovery Plan, we did the infrastructure for the. then we have to have now a sense of energy and forward motion. Forgive the student loans. Make sure that we are taking executive action to lower the cost of prescription drugs and cap, some of the costs of ordinary prescriptions.

Have a bold climate and get it through whatever we can pass. It doesn't have to be perfect, but we have to be doing things. That was FDR's secret. He was just doing things. And not all of them worked, but there was a sense that he was trying his best to use the levers in his control to make people's lives better. What do you think, I mean, if you were president right now,

do you think that sort of one thing that Biden could do as an executive action that might help him in the midterms? What are you seeing on the ground? I think the student loans is the low-hanging fruit. And people say, well, what about those who didn't go to college, who are, first of a lot of them went to vocational schools that could be forgiven. But no one, you know, even those who may not favor the student loan forgiveness, I don't think they will be mobilized on that issue. Whereas the ones people who are getting their loans forgiven will be mobilized on that issue.

So it seems to be so obvious. And the polling shows that. 58% of people, according to one of the polls I saw, who have already paid off their student loans, are fine with people having their student loans forgiven who haven't paid them on. So here's a question for you. Republicans are doing crazy, crazy, crazy things to get their base excited. The don't say gay law, there's the book banning, there's the this, there's that. I mean, they're really going all out to get their base excited. Why don't Democrats campaign more on like how crazy the Republicans have gotten?

We do. We have to make it a choice election that, you know, you're going to put basically Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Beaubair, Paul Gossar, in charge. They're going to impeach Biden. then they're going to kick off shift and Swalwall and Maxine Waters on their committees. This is not going to be the ordinary Republican Party. And I think as the midterms emerge, that choice needs to get more and more start. Right. I mean, that's a thing that I'm kind of shocked by is that there's not more of an explanation of how bad this could be.

I mean, you are in the house. Like, you see these people. I think after that tape, Kevin McCarthy is not going to be speaker. I agree with you that his speakership is actually in jeopardy. I mean, it depends. And that's just going to make him move more and more to shore up his base, which means that the upshot of this is that the far right of the Republican caucus is going to have a lot of power. And that's who we were up against. And so the choice is not, you know, do you want Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders or do you want Joe Biden and pick. some centrist that people like in the Democratic Party. The choice is, do you want Joe Biden and Democrats in charge? Or do you want Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Bobert, calling the shots? Yeah. I mean, it's just sort of mind-blowing. Why aren't Democrats trying to pass through some cutouts, like $35 insulin? I mean, I know Nancy Pelosi doesn't like cutouts. Is that why? Can you explain that to us?

We should try to pass it, but it'll have the same problem in the Senate. I mean, we only get so many reconciliation attempts. But the president can do that through executive order. The $35 insulin? Yes, because the president has authority on where we've used public spending to be able to do that. And we did for insulin. And he can create a generic market. He has authority over what we can do if there's been any public dollars used in the development of a drug. That's so crazy. I had no idea that that was possible. People who listen to this podcast are very political and very engaged. And what should they be doing? They need to demand of Democrats that we continue to

deliver, that we be pulled and list what their priorities are. Is it student loans? Is it climate? Is it the cost of these drugs like insulin? Is it making sure that we get better overtime laws, which again can be done by executive action. Some people are paid for overtime.

Is it expanding health care? What is the agenda that needs to be done and demanding that Democrats deliver? Do you have any sort of sense that there could be that BBB could come back? anyway or you think it's dead? I think something on climate could come back combined with energy, but it's going to

require the president's leadership and his insistence that to meet his climate goals, we have to get something done. And he's going to have to drive it and demand a compromise. That's the best shot we have at this point. Rokana, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you'll come back. Thank you so much.

Amanda Littman is co-founder of Run for Something. Welcome to the new abnormal Amanda Littman. Thank you. One of my favorite people to talk to. So I'm excited. Oh, thank you. I'm happy that adds to my bona fides. Let's talk about, you've written so many interesting things. I feel like, I feel like it's the summer of Amanda Lippman and run for something. Oh, it's so embarrassing. But for a good cause, I hope. Yes, a very good cause. So let's talk about, I don't know if you've read this piece.

There was a piece in New York Magazine yesterday by Sam Adler Bell about how on the, the, the on the ground activists are suffering from malaise. You are on the ground. What are you seeing? You know, I think there's certainly a little glimmer of truth in that and that people are tired. People are bummed out about, you know, what we have gotten from Congress and from the White House so far. And run for something in particular has seen 2022 be our best candidate recruitment year yet. In 2021, which was our best year before, we had about 24,000 people sign up to tell us they wanted to run for office throughout the calendar year. It is now April 25th. We have had 21,000 people sign up in the last three and a half months. Like, this is not malaise. This is people furious that D.C. and that Washington is not taking action on these issues and they are ready to take matters into their own hands and run for local office.

So, well, yeah, I think there's some certain bummers. to observe and to feel and I feel them. I know everyone working in this space feels it. It is, I think, a redirection of where we can make meaningful progress that is ultimately good, long term, if I'll be a little disappointing short term. So let's talk about that. We have this crisis where Republicans are going for the school boards and the state houses. Are you seeing a lot of people who want to run for school boards and state houses? Where are you seeing your candidates coming from? You know, run for something's work.

exclusively on state house, state senate, city council, school board, library board. So that's where we're seeing the energy. I was like the two things that we have found to be the most effective drivers of candidate recruitment. The first is any content promotion, advertising, conversation we do around school boards. People are fired up. They do not like seeing the book bans. Do they not like saying Republicans and crazy conservatives overreach in these cases and hurt their kids? The second is voting rights. The day that federal voting rights legislation failed was one of the biggest moments for candidate recruitment for us so far. People really understood that if D.C. is not going to take action here. We have to control and protect democracy from the ground level.

That is, I think, part and parcel of the broader program that run for something is now running, which is our three-year, $80 million effort to save democracy from the ground up by making sure that wherever we can, local election administrators are pro-democracy and pro-voter. And so we have seen an incredible amount of momentum towards that at every level. I feel like we're in these primary seasons now. Tell us what you're seeing as big hurdles for Democrats in the primaries. I mean, part of this is just making sure people know there's an election. I think with redistricting and changing filing dates and, you know, the stuff that keeps moving up in the air, candidates changing districts, it's very messy. Right. I'm seeing a lot of that, right? Like in Michigan,

in Michigan, you have candidates running against each other and they're both incumbents, but because the districts have all changed. I think it's exactly right. I think for the candidates that run for something is working within primaries. You know, for them, it's really about making the case that even in the Democratic incumbent or maybe it's a Republican incumbent, but an open conversation amongst Democrats, like, where are we taking this party? Like, who are we going to be in an environment where maybe we don't have Congress and maybe we're trying to back up the president in a different way?

Or maybe we're laying the groundwork for a Republican president again after 2024, which is a very scary thing to think about. Like, where can we both be proactive on the issues we know we need to make advances on and be defensive on the places where we know they're going to be under attack? So I think it's really a chance to define what this party is in this new era, which is exciting and scary at the same time. A lot of our people who listen to this podcast are, like me, very anxious. Tell us what they should be or could be doing that would be useful right now. Get involved locally. And, you know, I say this for a couple reasons.

One, it's good for politics. Getting involved locally, whether you're doing so on the state house, state senate, city council, school board, library, pick your dealer's choice on the race. We know that competing locally helps increase turnout for the top of the ticket. And especially at a moment where nobody's really psyched to vote for members of Congress. Right. People to show up around a school board race, they're fired up, and they'll also do the rest of the ballot because it's there will make go a long way. I think this will especially be true in 2022.

We're going to see what this concept we call reverse coattails be even more prominent when people are pissed at members of Congress, but fired up about the school board or state house race in their district. It's also good for policy. We have seen this over and over and over again on choice, on LGBT issues, on school curriculums, on criminal justice. reform, it is good to have people you care about who share your values in local office. They're doing things. They're making decisions. And especially even if you're in a blue place or a blue state, like having a Democrat who shares your values in that office and he will be a courageous fighter and who will stand up to the bullshit. And if you're in a red place, you know, making sure it's not the absolute bad shit insane people taking control. Right. And remembering that like,

what happens in a red state doesn't stay in a red state. There are issues and have a way of crossing a borders and, you know, getting picked up by the Fox News media cycle that then spins it across the country. So it matters what happens there, even if it might not affect the electoral college in 2024. There were some school board elections pretty recently. We've talked about them on the podcast in Wisconsin and also some other places. And we discovered that there was sort of an anti-crazy coalition forming. And I feel like we've seen that also in France. I know that's kind of far flung, but I'm curious if you're seeing an anti-crazy coalition and what you think that looks like. No, I love the way you frame that. I think that's exactly right. We are seeing that like, there's such a thing is going too far. And, you know, even people who might be small-sea conservative or might consider themselves more Republican, like, they don't want to see books being banned in schools. They don't want this to be a distraction. They want you to focus on the things that matter. I think like, especially when you talk about school boards, you know,

let's talk about teacher pay. Let's talk about facilities. Let's talk about, you know, music funding and arts funding and whether our kids are getting the education they need to get good jobs later in life. Like, don't get distracted by the bullshit. This is stuff that's a distraction. The candidates we're working with who are able to really localize it and focus on the specific tangibles are able to break through as part of that non-crazy anti-crazy coalition. Yeah, it seems like that's a really an important issue. This is both good and bad, but I think it's ultimately probably pretty good. In Utah, we have Democrats are not having a Democratic candidate this cycle. They're going to support a Republican. He has a pretty clear message. The goal is to get rid of Mike Lee. I'm curious to know what your

hot take on that is. Oh, I think it's super smart and strategic of the Democratic Party in Utah. Like, that is exactly the kind of thing we should be doing. And I think, you know, there are ways, whether it's supporting an independent candidate or just being more intentional about the kinds of folks we're bringing into the big tent that is the Democratic Party in these states, you know, places like Kansas where there is a Democratic governor. Like, Democrat win in Kansas. I feel like they'll talk about that. And some of the push, that's where the Republican Party has gone really far. And we've seen push past to that. You know, maybe it's not a candidate like the person that could win in, you know, Brooklyn where I live or. Right. It might be me, but a Democrat who really connects with the community who understands how they absorb information, the language you have to use to communicate with them, someone who is running of and from the place they're in can push through some of the partisanship. So I think it's really strategic of the Democratic Party in Utah, and it's the kind of big,

tent thinking we need to have as a party of, you know, not every Democrat is going to agree with us on every issue. You know, Joe Manchin, Kierston Cinema aside, who I think are not particularly principled people, when you can get principled people who are of the place they're running, it's a good thing, ultimately, for winning power. And being in the majority is always better than being in the minority, especially in Congress. I think it's really smart, too. You're not going to like a lot of his policies, nor am I, but especially when it comes to stuff

like fascism or like overturning the election or, you know, this kind of rogue government, it seems like this is a very good, pretty exciting development. I don't want to vote for him in New York. Right, right, yeah, yeah. You know, as much as we should get folks like Kim and others winning in sort of redder states, we should make sure that in blue states we're getting folks who are going to be fierce champions for our values. Yeah.

It's one of the ways the primary process is really, you know, both complicated and good, ultimately, because it gets folks who help us to find the sort of boundaries of where our party is. So I want to talk to you about unions. We had 40% labor unions. We have 10% labor unions now. This is like a winning issue in my mind. Like book banning, people want unions. They need unions. We have these workers who are being, you know, minimum wage is not going up. we have corporate profits are surging. I mean, do you think there's an opportunity there? And can you talk to me a little bit about that?

Oh, I think there's a huge opportunity. I think especially with younger people, especially with young people of color, like they are very vocal about the problems in their workplace and they're willing and ready to organize around them. It's an incredible space for Democrats to really live our values here. I do think you have to be able to be the right messenger on this. And not every member of Congress is the right person to be talking. This is one of those places where local leaders can really move the needle because, like, you know, I was reading a profile of Chris Smalls, the Amazon union worker.

And he really sort of like articulates the difference between worker the way that maybe Democrats and abstract think about it versus worker the way that the Amazon union organizers understand it. There's a distinction. And that's one where if you're not of the community from the community in there every day, day and day out, you're not going to be able to talk about it in a way that makes sense. So we want to make sure that it's the right political messenger who's showing up. and lending support in the most meaningful way and that we should not be afraid to make these partisan. Like I think that's something that a lot of Democrats, you know, sort of, we don't want this to, you know, we don't want to engage because we don't want it to be like Republicans are not participating in the Union Democrats. No, but they're not. They're not. And Republicans are

absolutely making unions a partisan issue. Like that's why you see these quote unquote right to work states where Republicans are in control. They know that unions can be a powerful organizing tool when people are coming together for collective action. So all for it. And I think it's got to be just the right messenger in the right time. Let's talk about your piece in Salon, Texas, two-stepping, ending abortion rights and voting rights are part of the rights long-term plan. Can you explain to us what's happening in Texas a little bit and how that dovetails with? What Texas is doing is what we're going to see in Republican states across the country.

You know, they have done an incredible, dangerous effort of undermining voting rights. making it harder for young people, people of color, transient folks to show up at the polls. They have essentially banned abortion. Both of those are on surface, both galvanizing the far right, making it harder for the left and anyone who isn't far right, even middle right, to show up at the polls. It is really dangerous. And I think it's an example of why, you know, we're seeing those kinds of legislation get copycated in Florida, in Ohio, in Georgia, in Mississippi, And I know, and all across the country, what happens in a red state, it doesn't stay in a red state. It is really dangerous.

And I think it also helps them build long-term sustainable power there. You know, when you change voting rights and you change the way that people can show up with the polls, you remove an accountability check. So it doesn't matter if most Texans disagree with some of the abortion laws or some of the anti-LGB laws or anything else that they are doing. It will ultimately shield them from being held accountable by their voters. You know, they are going big and audaciously. And Democrats, at least in the States where we can, need to be willing to do the same. Yeah. I mean, that is certainly true.

Can you just leave us with one thing that's giving you hope today? Yes. So I think maybe you may have talked with the last week. So we have seen over the last couple weeks young leaders from state Senator Megan Hunt in Nebraska, who successfully led an eight-hour filibuster against an abortion ban to Missouri, Representative Anne Mackey, who gave a powerful and moving speech as a LGBTQ man against the ban on trans athletes in schools to just last week. Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorro, who stood up and talked about how as a straight, white, Christian suburban mom, she is the Republican's greatest fear. We've seen young leaders, like, stand up to the bullshit of the Republican Party with a moral clarity and a pure fury.

That is, you know, you don't see from national leaders. And I have been struck, you know, this is not the first time we've seen it. We saw it with Jasmine Crockett and the Texas state legislator over the summer. State rep on Ascomani in Florida against abortion bans over and over again. Like, they're not fucking around. They are here. They are not. Right.

They do not have the wool over their eyes in terms of who the opponents are and what they believe and how you need to fight back. It is not a coincidence that some of the best spokespeople for, democratic values right now are young leaders on the local level. Are these 20 and 30-something-year-olds who are like, no, I am not merely mouthing my way through this. I am fighting. I am clear-eyed about the challenges and I'm going to articulate it in a way that appeals to people.

I mean, some of the clips from their speeches have gotten, I think, Mallory's is up to like 20 or 30 million views across different platforms. That speaks to something real in folks. So I am so inspired by that. And it makes me sort of double down and run for something. mission to help more folks like Megan and Abbaskin, Anne in Missouri and Mallory and Michigan do this work and step up to lead because we need them. We need them.

Thank you, Amanda. Thanks for having me, Molly. What's crazier than QAnon, more outlandish than Pizza Gate, and scarier than a Mexican getaway with Ted Cruz? The answer is what the American right wing has planned next. Be one of the first to listen to Fever Dreams, new podcasts from The Daily Beast, tracking the conspiracy slingers, orange acolytes, and straight-up grifters pushing to retake power.

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Johnfest. Who is your fuck that guy? It's someone we talked about earlier in the show. Her initials are MTG. She is from Georgia. Marjorie Taylor Green. She has been sort of on trial down in Georgia because there's a suit claiming that she has lost the right to run for Congress because she was part of an insurrection. Which I will be honest, sounds like a silly lawsuit to me.

But her testimony has been nothing but chef's kiss. I mean, it is just a bunch of, I don't recalls. including saying she doesn't recall telling the president to declare martial law, which, you know, we now have texts. But she's either saying, I don't recall, or she will answer no to something. And then there was, and then the prosecutor will say, well, can we pull up Exhibit E? And she'll go, oh, wait, wait. And it's just, it's, it's absolutely hilarious. And what I really love is that she portrays herself as sort of this, you know, bomb-throwing truth teller.

who, you know, is just out there doing the people's business. And then the minute she's under oath, it's a steady stream of I don't recalls. And once again, the people who loudly proclaim themselves, the heroes are, in fact, the biggest cowards. She knows full well that her answers make her look bad. So she is taking the I don't recall track, which, you know, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if it rises to the level of perjury. and I know perjury is not all that easy to prove. So whatever. But as a layperson, I will say that she is clearly lying when she says all the things she doesn't recall.

And for that, and so much more, she is my fuck-that gal for today. I think that's a good one. You know, it's not that sexist. It was not this kind of sexism I expected from you, Andy. Please. First, I want to acknowledge that I am an unbelievable ally. Let us talk about my thought that guy. So she's also a gal, but I'm going to call her a guy because I'm not a terrible sexist like you are.

She owes a lot of money to Vladimir Putin. Huh. A lot. She is in the country of France. Perhaps you've heard of it. They are known for a number of very good things, including their delicious cheeses. Uh-huh. And her name is Marine Le Pen, and she lost on Sunday.

You know, she's still got 40% of the vote. But in America, that would be considered to be, like, how Walter Mondale lost. So we're going to call it a shalacking in honor of our favorite Barack Obama. She got a shalacking. And I hope that that is it and knocks her out of contention. But who knows? She gets a hearty, fuck you from me. I don't like her, Molly.

I'm going to just say it. on that note we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from the Daily Beast in future episodes we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics and science will help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you again on the next episode. Want more great listens?

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