The Daily Beast Podcast - Kal Penn Got ‘Schooled’ by Barack Obama and ‘Weirded Out’ Michelle

Episode Date: August 7, 2022

Actor and former White House adviser Kal Penn recalls the moment he spectacularly failed to outsmart the former president and how he was humiliated in front of the first lady. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Zhang Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic Invo. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart, conversations with the wisest and funniest and funniest people in science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down, and on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. Hello, and welcome to another Sunday episode of The New Abnormal. We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest who you definitely know.

It's Cal Penn. How do you not know Harold and Kumar go to White House or escape from Guantanamo Bay or designated survivor or his time in the White House? And so he's going to talk to us about all of that and, you know, some life lessons as well as his time of him. on the TV show House. We're going to have a great time. And of course, we're going to discuss his new book, You Can't Be Serious. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some clips?

Yes. Please, clips, yes. I want to hear them. Be no attention to Molly. No, I don't want to hear them. Molly wants to hear it. Off air, we were just talking about drugs. There's a person I often wonder what drug they're on.

That being Greg Kelly, Newsmax, anchor, because when you read his tweets, you have no idea what the hell he's saying most of the time. Something really on. there, yeah. Well, he's taken those antics to the air and he has something to say about former President Barack Hussein Obama. I'm sorry, but he's just not a trustworthy guy about

almost everything, even his faith. What I was suggesting, you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith, and you're absolutely right that that has not come my Christian faith.

Well, what I'm saying, he has a suggestion that I'm a Muslim faith. That I'm a Muslim faith. I think he might just be a Muslim. Now, that's fine. We can have a Muslim president, a Muslim senator. It doesn't matter, but to be deceptive about it. That's the problem.

And I think he may have been deceptive about that and a lot of other things. Yeah, that's what happened. Is it 2012? I'm worried this is going to hurt him in his election. And now they're all going to tell him he's a Muslim. Greg Kelly, I honestly don't know if he's doing shtick, like constantly. I muted him on Twitter because I just assumed he was doing schtick. Like, his tweets are so weird, but they're not funny to me.

They're just weird. So I can never tell because he's either like one of the Lord's dumbest creatures or he is trying to be funny and trying to get a rise out of people. And either way, he's boring to me. So I just muted him. But bringing up Barack Obama with the fake Muslim crap from 10 years ago? That's how you know Biden's fortunes are changing. I think we're on 14 years ago.

You're right. Yeah, I'm worried this might hurt him. Well, in other broken brain people news, Tanesh D'Souza and his wife have a podcast together. I don't know if you guys have noticed this pattern that all the right-wingers are starting to have podcasts with their wives. So he has one and he gets very uncomfortable because his wife's a little too into Mr. Trump. He looked very relaxed.

You know, he was just really chill. and funny as ever. I mean, he, listen, if he didn't have a career in being an entrepreneur, he could have been a comedian. Well, the thing about Trump is, I don't know.

I mean, he could have been a conservative comedian. I mean, the whole thing is it's just so fucking stupid. I mean, so what Dinesh is mad that she thinks that Trump is better than Dinesh, I guess they're about tied. Do you think Dinesh has ever intentionally said something funny in his life?

I don't know. I'm hedging my bet against that. Unintentionally. By the way, you got me thinking because all of these, you're right, like Josh Hawley does a podcast with his wife. The one conservative who doesn't have a podcast with his wife is Ted Cruz

and which is just goes to show you how much his own family doesn't even like him and doesn't want me around him. Because why would that? He's ashamed after the way Trump shamed him about Heidi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. This is going to be the do justice for Melania, save her. We have to save Heidi now.

Yeah, I'm not saving Heidi. I think Heidi's just about as bad as her spouse. Save Heidi from her Goldman Sachs job. I'm as interested in saving her as I was in Melania. Yeah, exactly. All right, on that note, I might be less interested in saving either. That's a good point. I feel like we've had some low energy personalities, so I really got to kick it up a gear. So it turns out Blake Masters, when he was younger was an aspiring rapper. And we have his rap. No. No.

No. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. I have to do it. So Barack Obama called the waitress of sweetie today.

Now the press is having a day. They're getting all mad. They're looking for a fight. I'm reading the news. I'm like, this shit ain't right. What's going on here? He can't speak the truth. What if she was a sweetie?

What if she was cute? It's a sad day in society when one plus two. Can't equal three. I'm no fan of his policies, but he's not a sexist. Everybody knows this. Wonded around with Lexus, but it didn't work. What an idiot. Why would I...

Here we go. How about we talk about the way I look? Everybody knows that's off the hook. I've got the war paint on, as you can see. Who said what? About cultural and sensitivity? Nah, man. It's just having fun.

Don't blame me. I ain't the one. Where's my beat? That is... I am without speech. It's not often you hear sort of a well-known freestyle or sort of lose it in the middle like he did. You don't get that. Black thought doesn't do that very often. Got to respect that. Or as Blake would say, you've got to give him his proper.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. I don't even know what you're talking about, but this is making me want to move to a pineapple under the sea. What I'd like to point out is somebody who's produced top 40 rap albums, before. That is the slowest beat to rap to. Oh, it was terrible. And if you are messing up at that tempo, you are worse than all the other white rappers. Yeah,

that was not... Okay, I believe he's the worst. I'll go for that. Let's hope he keeps running his Senate campaign as bad as he wraps. Wow, that was bad stuff, Jesse. If I hear that there's a conservative song or a conservative rap, you know, I can't help myself. I know you can't. It's what the people are. That should be disqualifying.

That's because you ain't the one, Jesse. Okay, so one Herschel Walker running against Reverend Warnock down in Georgia for the Senate. He says he's going to debate Reverend Warnock in a very interesting way. Well, I'm going to open this up on your show. Right now, I have a septic, a debate in Savannah, Georgia, in his backyard, that we can debate October the 14th in front of a crowd that it'll be his people because we're in his backyard. And this debate is going to be about the people. It's not about some political party.

It's not about the press. It's in his backyard. But isn't it also his backyard? Don't they both live in Atlanta? So basically he's not going to debate Warnock. That's what I'm taking from it. The great reason I was playing this is there's no chance he debates Reverend Warnock, right? No.

No. There's no chance. Yeah, because he'll get creamed. Air. He's going to spend the whole time talking about air and China. And also about his days in the FBI. Right. Yeah, exactly.

That's right. So Fox Business Personality, Dagan McDowell. I'd check the pronunciation of that name, but it makes me want to die. Could have just asked me. Oh, Andy, how do I pronounce that? Yeah, you were right. Oh, okay. Good, good, good.

I forgot that you stay studied on this. I know these people. I thought she was a newer one than you. No, no, no, no, no, no. She was a red-eye regular. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Dagan McDowell?

A nice Southern girl. Whatever. I don't know. I'm not listening. I got distracted. She has some thoughts on what it really means that Kansas voted to preserve Roe versus Wade protections for abortion. And indeed, as the Wall Street Journal editorial board, James Freeman, has predicted that this reversal of Roe by the Supreme Court, it's a return to democracy where you put now back in the hands of legislatures and in the hands of voters,

the ability to go to the ballot box and decide for themselves where a state wants to stand on abortion policy. And the voters in Kansas did that very thing. So that all blows up the Democrat narrative of the Supreme Court is destroying our democracy. And in fact, they're saving it. Look. That's a better response than, the so-called states rights people who are pissed about what happened in Kansas and who are making excuses for it.

So I'll give her that. Am I wrong? I don't know. I mean, words. What do they mean? None of these people. I mean, they're either so smart that, no, they're just stupid. Never mind.

They defend the indefensible enough. Here ago. This is how it is, man. Yeah. Look, I don't agree with her on the Supreme Court part of it. But at least when I listen to that, that to me is a lot better than hearing. And conservatives talk about how stupid the voters are in Kansas and stuff like that. So, like, granted, we are on a really bad scale.

Yes, we are. But on that scale, I put this above the others. Cal Penn is an actor and former staff member of the Barack Obama administration, as well as the author of You Can't Be Serious. Welcome to New Abnormal. Thank you. Thank you for having. me. We're thrilled. So you're like an actor and you worked in the Obama White House. Why would you ever want to write a book? That's the question everyone asks you, right? Well, no, because you asked it in the most truthful and candid way ever, which I just very much appreciate. I resisted writing this book for a long time. I've only had one manager throughout my acting career for like 20 years, wonderful guy. And he called me the day I left the White House. So I,

I served in the Obama administration for a little over two years, and that was always the plan. The plan was to come back to my acting career, and he calls me, and he goes, hey, man, so just so you know, you need to write a book. And I said, why? He goes, you know, because nobody's ever done what you've done. Like, you're an actor, like you're a Hollywood actor, and then you went off and you worked in politics. Nobody's ever done that. And I remember just saying to him, like, literally the governor of California is Arnold Schwarzen.

Like, it is so false that I am the only person. and who's done anything like that. And then we had a conversation about like, you know, Ben Stein, obviously Ronald Reagan and people like that. I just said no. And I was like, there's no reason for me to write a book. And it wasn't until a couple of years after that where I just sort of thought, okay, you know what? There's two things that I would actually love to do. One, I wish there was some sort of a collection of stories for like the 25-year-old version of me. So the person who was trying to navigate, in my case, you know, trying to navigate a career like entertainment that I sort of viewed as a monolith and wasn't quite sure how to really make an impact on or how to build a career.

And then the second type of person I wanted to reach out to was, and this is way more common now, especially coming out of a pandemic. But, you know, when we were kids, I think you were told, pick one thing you want to do with your life and stick to it and that's it. And so then if you were a weirdo like me and you didn't view the world as being made up of these mutually exclusive choices, you would say, like, well, I want to do a bunch of different things. And so having had the blessing or the privilege of doing a bunch of of different things in my career, making ridiculous stoner movies, working at the White House. I sort of thought there's a whole group of people who also view the world, the way that I view the world. And I'd love to share my stories with them. So it was relatively recently where I just

sort of thought, maybe I do have a story to tell. Maybe there is a reason to write a book and do an audiobook. And so that's what kind of led to. That is actually really interesting. Though how did you go from acting to the White House? Because I want to do that. Except without the acting. And also maybe not the one else. Yeah. No, but I understand the sentiment. I mean, I'd like to get a real job.

So, like, I could use any advice. They're overrated. The real jobs are overrated. I was on the show House in 2007. And in October of 2007, so for reference, October of 2007, was the fall leading up to the primary season before the 2008 elections.

So you had like, I think because Dick Cheney wasn't running, you had like 12, you know, 12 Democrats and 12 Republicans running. Obama was down 30 points in the polls coming out of that summer against Hillary Clinton and John Edwards. And I wasn't really following politics, but Olivia Wilde, a wonderful actor-director and at that time, my co-star on House, she knocked on my dressing room door and she goes, hey, I've got a plus one to a Senator Obama presidential event. Do you want to come? And you were like, no, no. I said no, yeah, I said no. And she goes, what do you mean? No, you were reading his book a couple of weeks ago. And I said, yeah, I, you know, I also like read a, you know, read a book about Dick Cheney.

That doesn't mean I don't want to meet him. And she kept saying, she's like, I have a plus one. It's a campaign event. Like, no, I understand all of this. Let me guess it's going to be like a bunch of Hollywood actors and this junior senator from Illinois who's never going to win is going to like try to get us all to donate or do events for him. And she goes, how are you this cynical? Yes. that's exactly what it's going to be but I think you'd enjoy it plus it's an open bar

and I was like oh open bar yes absolutely I will be your plus one so I go with her but I think you'll appreciate this nerddom we're the place for nerddom it was going to be 50 50 artists and they're plus ones and so I sort of assumed look it'll be people asking about arts policy or arts education or the things that artists talk about when they have the opportunity to ask questions of somebody who's running for office So I decided that since that's what everybody was going to ask about, I was going to go and ask about something else. And so I read the Obama campaign website and I looked at the climate change section. And there was a little section about investing in corn to turn into ethanol as a biofuel.

And I remembered, this is where the nerdy part kicks in, I remembered an article that I had read in foreign affairs a couple of months prior that talked about how if we invest too heavily in corn to turn into ethanol, it could raise the, the price of corn for people who rely on it for food, namely in developing countries. And it's also a huge scam. But yes, go on. Right. Yes. Well, yeah. And plus, I mean, Iowa is the first state to vote, right? So obviously there's a huge ag subsidy question here. So I thought, oh, well, this is going to be a genius question. Nobody else is going to ask this. So I go with Olivia to this event. I'm on like wine number four and a half. I'm a lightweight. This is politics. Wait, I just want to get the full scope of this. This is a political event in Los Angeles. So already you two are the smartest people there by a large margin.

And I mean no disrespect for Los Angeles. Sure. Okay. I will accept that. But then also I am one of the least talented people in the room. But I am book smart. Whatever it is. Thank you.

I'm going to taking compliments. Sure. I'm not even sure it's a compliment. So I'm a little, I got a little buzz going. And Obama's making the round saying hello to people. and he comes over to where Olivia and I are standing. And I said, Senator, I've got a question for you about climate change. And he goes, oh, okay.

And I said, you know, I read your campaign's website about investing in biofuels. Isn't investing in ethanol just going to drive the price of corn up for people in developing countries? And he gives me this smirk that whether you love or hate Obama, you sort of, everybody now recognizes it as this like cocky kind of smirk that he has. He gave me that smirk and he goes, oh, yeah, I read that article in foreign affairs too. If you had read my website carefully, you would have seen that I'm proposing investing in corn-based ethanol as a bridge to cellulosic ethanol so that we can make fuel from things like our grass clippings and the leaves that we rake in our front yards. And he gives me another smirk and walks off. And Olivia is like loving every fucking minute of this. She's like, you just got schooled by Barack Obama.

And so at some point, this goes back to you thinking that we were the smartest people in the room. At some point, there was like, whatever the hubris was associated with me thinking that I maybe knew more than someone on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I was quickly brought back down to Earth. And Olivia and I both signed up to volunteer for the Obama campaign that evening. And then that sort of led to going to 26 different states over the very protracted primary campaign and then having the chance to work at the White House. I still think you're probably smarter than like Tommy Tuberville. I see. The low-hanging fruit here. Sure. Sure. Then that's a long list. Right. I mean, Marsha Blackburn. I mean, she was an image consultant. I'm not saying that she's not an accomplished person on this earth.

Yeah. No, I am definitely smarter than those people. Yes. That is interesting. When you worked at the White House, did you have a badge? Yes, I had to get in the building. I had a... Right. That's exciting. I mean, I'm a... always impressed with people who have like credentials. Or like the physical, not even what it means, just the physical badge is what you like? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I literally have never had a job. So I, the whole thing is like a fascinating adventure to me. What was fascinating to me, aside from, yes, I'm kind of a nerd for that kind of stuff. I love for the West Wing and things like that. But the really like, the feel-goody

thing that fascinated me the most was probably that there were thousands and thousands of people in the administration who were doing the same thing I did. And I understand there was some attention on what I was doing because I was on a TV show and I went to work in government. But there were so many people who took leaves of absence from their private sector careers, either in business or law or science or whatever, to serve some of them only for six months, some for the full eight years. And I kind of thought like, that's such a crazy, amazing thing that I wish people talked about more because it's relatively unique to certain types of democracies at certain periods of time. I thought it was amazing.

And it's still something that no matter how polarizing things get, I kind of look at and say, okay, so it is still possible for people to make it different. It's what Jared Kushner did to bring peace in the Middle East. Right. No, exactly what. That was exactly my point. Yes. Low-hanging fruit. I just want to talk about House for a minute because that's really important in this interview.

I used to always watch House because I'm a terrible hypochondriac. Oh, yeah. I went to my doctor once and she's like, my kid's pediatrician. and she was like, you know what we call a house? And I was like what? And she was like malpractice. Why? Because like they just diagnose everything all the time.

And then like they're mostly wrong. Yeah. Until the patient gets sicker and sicker and almost dies. Right. You know who else totally hated us? I mean, I love it. No, but I mean in that in that sense, nurses. So apparently nurses, nurses would send, I don't mean to disparageers.

I'm only laughing because. because of how charged up these letters were. They would send letters constantly about, like very angry letters about how the doctors on house do all the work that in real life nurses do. And they were right. They're not wrong about this. At all, they're not wrong about this.

I was dating a nurse when I was watching it a lot. This is what I'd hear the whole time I'd watch it. There you go, you know. They would never do that. He would never do that. They would never do that, you know, all of the, how many weird cases are there in this hospital? I'm sorry.

I hope this isn't the worst interview you've done for the book. No, not at all. I have not reminisced about the letters from nurses in a very long time. So I appreciate it. Yeah, well, you know, that's what we're here for. Talk to me about, like, life lessons. We love life lessons here at the New York Normal. We're very, tell us the life lesson.

I'll give you, I'll give you two. So there's a, there's a chapter that the whole thing is like a, a letter. to the 31-year-old me. So, like, things that I wish I knew before I worked in government. And just in case I sounded too serious, the book is, hopefully the book is something you can read at the beach or listen to on the drive-to-work. Like, it's not particularly heavy-handed. And that's by design, because I just love, I'm a big fan of, like, Mindy Kaling, Rain Wilson, stuff that I can read and learn something, but also kind of laugh. But I will say, one of the big life lessons for me, and I, as I tell the story,

you're going to think it's funny and self-deprecating, hopefully. But there's a message beyond it. So when the Obama campaign was over and anyone who worked on the campaign in any capacity got an email from the presidential transition that basically said there are thousands and thousands more of you than there are jobs at the White House. But we understand that a lot of you may want to work in the incoming administration. So here's a link. Here's a link to a web.

website called change.gov. And if you are interested in a White House job, please upload your resume, your CV, you know, whatever to this website and somebody will reach out to you if you're qualified or if you're, you know, if you're the right fit for what we're looking for. Oh, we're talking about the Obama website. The Obama president. I thought they were talking, we were talking about the Trump president. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, right. Go on. No, we were talking about the first Obama term. So I've, uh, I kind of thought, like, I have the chance to go to 26 different states. I worked on the Arts Policy Committee.

I was a surrogate. I sort of did that thing that a lot of people on campaigns do, which is like I basically said, you should vote for this guy and he's going to do all these things. Shouldn't I at least apply for a job and help execute the things that I went to 26 states to pimp out? And so without really telling anyone, I uploaded a resume, filled out this form on this website.

The only person I told was my acting manager. I've only had one throughout my whole career. he goes, you're applying for a White House job? And I said, yeah. He goes, okay. I mean, all right, what are you going to do if you get it? I was like, I don't know, we'll figure it out. Right.

And I was on house at the time. So nothing happens. And I got invited to, during inauguration, there's a concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial that I got invited to. And you could bring your family and like a plus one backstage to meet the new incoming first family after the show. So I brought my parents, brought my manager. The president-elect comes through, said hello.

Mrs. Obama comes through. Mrs. Obama says very kindly in a very Mrs. Obama way, hope you stay involved. And I said, of course, I plan to. And then my manager, who was standing next to me, the only person who knew I applied for a job, goes, well, you know Cal applied for a job, right? And I was like, no, no, no, no, this is not, this is not okay for you to say right here. So I tried to shut him up. And, you know, in Michelle Obama fashion, her interest was piqued. And she goes, what do you mean? And he doubles down. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, he applied for a job at the White House. And nobody even called him back. And then I was like, I'm humiliated, right?

I was like, no, no, no, you can't sit in. No, ma'am, that's, you know, don't worry about what he's saying. And she goes, did you? And I said, yeah. And she goes, who did you apply with? And at that very moment, I just blurted out, I put my resume on change.gov, like the email said. And she looked at me like I was the biggest idiot in the whole world.

And I realized probably how ridiculous it sounded. because when you start at a political campaign early enough, you know the principles, you know the people who are actually running for office, you know the senior advisors. If you start late, you may not know them. So she was so weirded out by this. She called the president elect over, and she was like, Barack, come back here. So he comes over, and she goes, she looks at him and then looks at me and says,

tell him what you just told me. And I was like, oh, God. I said, well, sir, you know, I did apply for a job at the White House in case. there was anything that I would be qualified doing. And he looks at me and says, who did you apply with? And then I was like, oh, God, this shit again. I was like, look, I applied on change.gov. And unlike his wife, he smirked at me. And it was the same idea, though. The smirk was like, God, you idiot. And he said something like, why didn't you reach out to anybody? Why didn't you, why didn't you call anyone? And then he put me in touch with a guy named Chris Liu and Reggie Love,

his assistant. Chris is wonderful. He, he, at that time was in charge of hiring, and he called me the next day, and it just so happened that they were looking for somebody to fill three jobs in the public engagement office, the outreach office, on outreach to young people, outreach to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders, and outreach to the arts community, and those were three jobs that I had had during the campaign. But the big takeaway from this story is, like, of course, it's a ridiculous thing. I'm an actor. This is the incoming leader of the free world. The real takeaway here that I hadn't considered was, Because if in any job, right, let's say you work, you're starting at a small startup with just a handful of people, which is essentially what the early Obama campaign was.

And that company, that startup achieves what it needed to achieve and is bought out, right? Or it expands into a different company. If you want to continue to work for a company, if you're proud of the work that you did, if you're proud of what your boss and the leadership team had achieved, you don't just fill out an application on a website and leave it. You have to let people know you're interested because by not doing that, and this is sort of what Mrs. Obama was alluding to, by not doing that, the impression you're giving people is you don't actually give a shit. The impression you're giving people is that you're just sort of checking the box because you feel pressure to check the box, but you don't actually have a legitimate interest in a job like that. And so it's that difference between, I think, what a lot of us struggle with, which is imposter syndrome. You know, I have no right being here. I can't believe I'm here.

Or the flip side to that, which is, I've worked here for six months. how come I'm not a vice president already? And the reality lives somewhere in the middle there. So my biggest takeaway from that experience was, A, I'm a gigantic idiot, so I'm not nearly as smart as you thought I was. Right, yeah, definitely. B, you know, the way to navigate any job. Also my takeaway.

Thank you, yes. Yeah. The way to navigate any job or any job opportunity is to sort of keep those sorts of things in mind where it's not traditional networking per se, but it's realizing that thing that drove you to work hard in a particular. entity to begin with is something you have to let folks know that you still care about. Are we better, more fun interview than The View? Oh, man, they're totally different.

What? You don't have an audience. We have an audience. We have Jesse back there, and I hear one of my kids coughing. No, a live audience. A live audience. We have the dogs. Tell us the secrets of the View.

I was very excited to go on the View. Joy Behard. They're all wonderful, but Whoopi Goldberg, she came up in an early conversation when I was in college when my college friends were trying to convince me to come up with a screen name. So Cal Penn is a screen name. My real name is Kalpin Modi or Kalpin Modi. And the conversation, so none of my college friends were film or theater majors.

They all had normal people majors. And they were so floored that I would study something that most likely wouldn't lead to a job. So they go, they're like, well, you're getting new headshots next week. What about a fun, catchy screen name? And I said, what do you mean? And my buddy Mark says, well, you know, like Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopi Goldberg is awesome. Her name isn't Whoopi Goldberg.

It's Karen Johnson. Her name is Karen. Karen is not memorable. Whoopi is memorable. And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess her name wouldn't be Whoopi Goldberg, would it? That just, I guess I hadn't thought about that. So on and on, and that sort of led to my. coming up with Cal Penn as my screen name.

So going on the view and telling Whoopi Goldberg that story was kind of fun. Is Whoopi Goldberg's real name Karen? Yeah, Karen. Her name is Karen. We're learning stuff all over the place here. It's amazing. Thank you so much. It's so interesting.

And we're thrilled to have you. So thank you. Thank you both. I have enjoyed talking to you. I hope to talk to you again soon. Yeah. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from the Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from The Daily Beast and beyond

from media, culture, politics, and science. We'll help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you again on the next episode. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studed The Daily Beast podcast at thedailybeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the dailybeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.