The Daily Beast Podcast - Kathy Griffin: Pence Is ‘Nothing But the Crap Under Trump’s Shoe’

Episode Date: October 8, 2020

Kathy Griffin joins Molly Jong-Fast and Rick Wilson for a special episode of The New Abnormal recorded right after the vice presidential debate. The gang thought Kamala Harris was the clear winner but they couldn’t stop looking at the vice president’s eye. “The closeup shots of Mike Pence’s bleeding eyeball were like watching an eighties horror movie. I expected some sort of snake to come running out of it at any minute,” said Rick. And that was before the fly stuck to his head. “It's almost like it gets inflamed during the debate. And the fly was doing some triage,” said Griffin.   Pence came into the debate needing to try and help Trump win back the women voters who have deserted him since 2016, but that was a total fail.“Maybe I'm biased because I hate Mike Pence with passion and burning fire of a thousand suns,” said Molly. “But I just saw a guy who doesn’t give a shit about women and who doesn’t respect women and who talked over [the moderator] Susan Page and talked over Kamala.”   Rick agreed: “He comes across as a guy, who’s saying, ‘Well, hey little lady, what can I do to get you into this beautiful ‘89 Camry today?’ Just there’s a little creepiness about him.” “I will say, as a female watching, I did feel like Pence was doing a very classic gaslighting, the woman,” said Griffin. Pence also failed to commit to President Trump accepting the result of the election and agreeing to a peaceful transfer of power. “Mike Pence will be in a Nuremberg trial someday,” said Rick.   Griffin said it was tragic as Pence had once been seen as a mainstream Republican. “It’s shocking to watch him get indoctrinated like a freaking member of right-wing ISIS, go on his degenerate journey to becoming nothing but the crap under Trump’s shoe,” she said. “And it’s disheartening watching him tonight… just parroting, conspiracy theories that seem to get crazier. As the night went on, I just looked at him and I went, fuck that fly—that guy.” Want more? Become a Beast Inside member to enjoy a limited-run series of bonus interviews from The New Abnormal. Guests include Cory Booker, Jim Acosta, and more. Head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com to join now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi folks, it's Rick Wilson, and welcome to The Daily Beast's The New Abnormal. Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, a left-wing pundit and editor at large at The Daily Beast. I'm also an editor at The Daily Beast, a former Republican political strategist, bestselling author, and full-time troublemaker. We're here to have fun, sharp conversations with some of the smartest people in media, politics, business, and science that help make what's happening in the country and the world clearer. I'll try to keep Rick to the minimum number of F-bombs and try to keep our, kids, pets, and other wildlife sounds from invading our respective bunkers.

So we have a very special Veep post-debate show with the illustrious Rick Wilson. Hi there. At his undisclosed location. Indeed. And our special guest, Kathy Griffin, who is not in an undisclosed location. She is in a disclosed location of California. Oh, that flies in my hair. Ow!

Ow, sticky. And she is in California where you need to manage your forests. Rake, we've got to do a lot of forest raking, and then we're all good, people. Yeah, they really love the raking. Like, they're so stuck on the fucking raking. Someone told him about raking. Well, it wasn't Gavin Newsom, by the way, who I believe agrees with Trump once in a while when he needs money. But, you know, California, the forest in California, 60% run by the government, the federal government.

So they love to say it's up to the states. I think the federal government, I don't think they're doing any raking. And that's not what I hear works anyway. But it's actually, that was one of the moments I have to say. As someone who I'm in Chicago, but lives in California, that was actually really sad. Because we are not the only state on fire, but the whole West Coast is on fire. And it was kind of like blaming the victim. I think that's exactly right.

And it's sort of the difference between rational people who follow science and people who hear random shit and are named Donald Trump. I mean, I just don't understand how Mike Pence is such a. sycophant. And did you see that the swarmie? Smarmy. Was searched 500 times during the debate. Like, he's just so obsequious. The best thing in terms

of the post-debate, or the debate searches, of course, was COVID-I. Which I have to take a little credit for starting because the close-up shots of Mike Pence's bleeding eyeball were like watching some sort of like 80s horror movie. I mean, it was, I expected some sort of

snake to come running out of it at any minute. And when you spend that much time denying that COVID is a bad thing and saying it's a blessing, how can you not look at his eye and start looking up? Like, I was looking up symptoms of COVID. And I know I'm being a conspiracy theorist myself here, but they were saying pink eye is one of the symptoms of COVID. And also his breathing sounded so labored when he was talking. It's everywhere. I mean, there, the notion, and I do like that Susan Page actually, I believe she actually identified the Amy, Coney, Barrett, whatever name is. The super spreader event. Yes, as a super spreader event. Yes, as a super spreader event, the Rose Garden Massacre. So I thought that was a little bold, but it's almost like it has, it gets inflamed during the debate. And I was doing some triage. The question I think is, does it work? See, all I saw, and maybe I'm biased because I hate Mike Pence with the passion and burning fire of a thousand sons. But I just saw a guy who doesn't give a shit about women and who doesn't respect women and who talked over Susan Payne. and talked over Kamala and refused to, you know, he was like, I'm a mediocre white guy and I'm here. Well, that's, I think, why I'm speaking was trending and why so many women responded to that moment when she just turned to him and it said, I'm speaking, I'm speaking, waited. And at one point, she said, if you'll let me finish, we're going to have a conversation.

And he finally sort of meekly said, okay. But yeah, as it went on, Susan Page, no disrespect, but I wish she would have just pivoted to Senator Harris instead of just saying, thank you, Mr. President, thank you, Mr. President, which doesn't work. But yeah, I think a lot of women responded to those moments because it was perpetuated throughout the whole debate. I've always heard that eye rolling and interrupting is a really effective relationship strategy. Super hot. Yeah, women love eye rolling. They also like the one thumb as it to say, what's with her? I actually wanted him to go, what's up, Senator, on the rag?

But I'm bum. That's why I'll be here all night. But you know what's interesting to me? I did think her non-visual cues were much. better than his. And they both felt the same things, right? But for some reason, her sort of smiling and laughing and then her face of abject sort of amusement read in my mind. And again, of course I'm biased because I hate Mike Pence. I thought it read better. I think one thing as somebody who's done a lot of debate prep, when she was delivering her key lines, she was on camera. She was doing the engagement with the audience through the camera. A lot of time Mike Pence was flipping back and forward. to Susan Page, over to Harris. Looking down a little bit, he wasn't like doing a lot of this straight to camera delivery

that is as convincing to viewers as I think what she was doing accomplished. Because, you know, Mike Pence naturally looks like he's like trying to shed a snake skin. And he's not very, he doesn't come across as a very like straightforward guy to begin with. He comes across as a guy who's saying, well, hey, little lady, what can I do to get you into this beautiful 89 Camry today? Yeah. Just, there's a little creepiness about him. And look, I think, I think she could have hit all.

a little harder on a couple questions like the court packing thing and just dismissed it. Right. And just said, oh, you're being an absurd. You're trying to fuel the Fox conspiracy machine. That's absurd, Mike. And it could have diminished him. But I think she did very well overall. I think she had a strong performance overall.

I don't know how Mike Pence could overcome the most symbolic moment of the evening that we're just not talking about, though. Which is that Mike Pence refusing the peaceful transition of power? Did that speak to you? Well, that spoke to me mostly in saying that Mike Pence will be, in a Nuremberg trial someday. I thought it was interesting that a lot of pundits made the case that that was the same as the court packing. I think there's a degree to which the assertion on the part of the president that he will

not necessarily accept a peaceful transition of power, Mike Pence could have done a lot of good for both the candidate and for the campaign and for himself. If he had just come out and said, that's ridiculous. Of course, we're going to have a peaceful transition of power. And Donald Trump is going to win a glorious victory. blah, blah, blah. But instead, he had to get weasily, and he had to get his dick crooked, and the whole thing got

more icky than it should have been. But I think Pence was legit afraid to say that, and I think he knows where his bread is buttered. And I really think he would have caught, you know, a bucket full of hate from the Fox fans and the whole Trump crowd. And so, I think he is honestly afraid to say that. And by the way, I think he was

very clear. Do not think Pence is going to lift a finger when the shit hits the failure, which it will, by the way, regardless of the decision. So, you I think for just a civilian such as myself, that moment was actually kind of separate from the packing the court moment. I did think Senator Harris handled that moment really well when she did once again, like you said, return to the camera and say, and did you know out of the 50 court lifetime appointments, not one of them was black? And Pence looked definitely uneasy and jarred by that as he was.

But I will say the moment I thought was a little more subtly frightening when he was just sort of parroting Trump's answer. And I do wish Susan Page, as well as Senator Harris, would have sort of highlighted that. more from sort of the civilian view or how disruptive and frightening that is. You know, Kathy, I think that's a really smart point because the idea that Mike Pence can be as duplicitous as Trump, but do it with a sort of more calm affect. Yeah. It's something people need to be aware of and something people need to be very focused on. And I think that's a really good point is that he was doing every line of Trump.

Because, look, he does have an audience of one here. Yeah. He noticed that if he makes Trump happy and Trump says he's doing great, then Fox will say, Pence is doing great. And then the menians will say, Pence is doing great. When I'm asked my question of both of you, as, you know, I used to be able to watch Fox for my act, and now I can't even like do that anymore. Do you think that if anything did happen to Trump, do you think or not think that the Trump cult members will pivot to Pence, or do you think they're just with their dear leader, and Pence is never going to kind of cut it for them?

What Trump has done to the Republican Party is converted into a personality cult. And so, you know, if Donald Trump tomorrow got eaten by wolves, they would not jump to Mike Pence first. They would go to Kim Jong-un of the Trump family, Don Jr. Oh, God. Really? Yeah. No. Listen, this is a... Oh, yeah. So what does the polling say? Like, it would be like Jim Jordan? Like, if they, if they couldn't have Trump... No, it would be Junior as the president? Of voters who say they are most passionately committed to Donald Trump, their number one choice for 24 is Don Jr. Wow. Right after that, like eight points below that is Josh Hawley. Oh my God. How is Josh Hawley? How is Josh Hawley?

the same as Junior, I guess they're both dumb. I actually thought Ivanka would be first choice, seriously. Ivanka doesn't speak fluent dick, and that's what you have to do. You have the language of Fox and the oppositional defiant disorder of Trumpism. That's Don Jr's like, he's like a fluent native speaker of that shit. Rick, are you going to say that Josh Holly is smart? I'm going to tell you, do not underestimate Josh Hawley. He's not stupid.

I just, I'm telling you that not because I like him, but because I think he is going to be one of these people that tries to run Trumpism through the car wash and pretend it's respectable. But plenty of evil people are not stupid, Molly. Trump is evil and stupid, but... The polling, they have done some polling of Mike Pence and Joe Biden, and Pence actually does better. Yeah, he actually does a little better. Because look, say what you will of Mike Pence and I will.

He is a much more standard issue Republican in terms of just the optics of him, Donald Trump. Hence the Frank Luntz group saying he's robotic. Yes, exactly. But there are times with... Do you want a psychopath or a robot? I mean, I want a psychopathic robot, but that's me. I have preferences.

But I also think you don't want to, there's an unhinged quality to Trump that Mike Pence does not have. Right. Mike Pence is not obviously deranged. He's more the quiet guy who makes a skin suit out of you rather than the guy who goes on a bloody school shooting or something. He's a different kind of horrifying. Yeah. But he's not bringing the heat in the way that Trump brings the, he's a businessman. And he says stuff we're all thinking.

He has none of those, I should say, qualities. Now, what do you guys think is I don't really agree with the pundits saying that the debate didn't change anything. Maybe it won't move the dial as far as a measurable vote count. But I will say, you have to assume most people don't know Senator Harris. So I think this was a real opportunity for folks to actually get to know her a bit. But let me jump in with a fact on that because we just got the CNN poll. She's at 59%. He's at 38% from that CNN poll. But her favorability also went up greatly.

Jesse, did they pull the fly? 100 to 1% broke the scale. Kathy, I think that's a good point because, you know, she's very poised. She's very smart. She's very polished. She also has some genuine human emotions that come across her face when she's frustrated or or insulted. And she doesn't just do the robotic, you know, debater, intransigent sort of debate.

So long story short, I do think it helped her. Look, as a general rule, vice presidential debates only help the winner. If you're ahead, a debate helps you. If you're not, it doesn't. So what's going to happen if Trump team does what they do and they declare that Pence won? And then people won't believe them. But here's the thing. Everything Mike Pence was talking about tonight was almost exclusively for the Trump base. I mean, let me tell you something. Yeah, right. Not a single real voter in the swing states who's not already a Trump voter is out there tonight worrying about the Green New Deal. They really are obsessed with the Green New Deal. Well, and fracking. They think they've got these like two points of fracking and Green New Deal that are going to help

them win Pennsylvania and Ohio. You know, those things work with the Trump base, but they are absolute non-starters everywhere else. Now, and just so you know, in the real world, nobody knows what fracking is. Like, I think if you sat people down and even just, like, I almost wish Senator Harris would have explained what it is for 30 seconds, but most people, they just really don't know what that is. I mean, I think it's a giant issue, but they just have tied it to fracking equals jobs. Right. And so, you know, and

look, Biden, the people who do care about it in Pennsylvania and Ohio, they really care about it. Right. So they're trying to avoid a political train wreck there without you take the path of these resistance. But Trump's sort of apocalyptic. You will be doomed. They will destroy everything. The Green New Deal's, pure

communism. Yeah, it doesn't. It's just What about when he threw in the red bead of mentioning AOC, Oh, I think he got it the first erection he'd had in months. I just don't understand. Like, they did a little bit of the CPAC thing they had been doing, where they were like, they want to kill your babies. They want the babies to be born and then to murder them.

They want to take away your hamburgers. Abortions five minutes before they're about to get burned. Right. I mean, they're having a little trouble with the abortion stuff because they killed 210,000 Americans. Yeah, that's a fairly pro-life statement. to kill 200,000 people. Last night shot. Clump of Salas is a living person, but, you know, if we kill, you know, one in a thousand people. But Grandma needs to die for the Dow Jones.

Right. So, I mean, I think that that, I think they're having a little trouble with that, but they are very interested in the Democrats want to take away. They didn't say it tonight, but that, that whole midterm thing, Democrats want to take away your hamburgers. Yeah. Yeah. And as I said, they were, Pence was playing entirely. to the base tonight. You don't think Pence went too far, though, trying to convince Americans that

the Obama folks were spying on Trump? Like, I thought that was the most out there one he brought up. That's just, like, fox porn. I know, but come on, that's too crazy. It is crazy. Like, do you think Senator Harris should have responded to that at all or just not let it sit there? I think she should have rolled her eyes and said, listen, your boss is Vladimir Putin's bitch. And they're still. They can't curse. Can they curse in those debates or not? Oh, Molly, how do you think that Senator Harris should handle the packing the court? Because as a lefty Lib Tard, I just went, he kept saying, say it. Say you want to pack the court.

I was like, yes, we never wait to pack it. Woo-hoo! We're going to. I'm going to get it. Johnny wears bathhouse. Pack it. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, I think that's not making it in there.

That's getting beeped. Kathy, congratulations for being the first guest to get peaked. Oh, I've done this. I'm going to plenty of places. You know, the court packing is an interesting issue because clearly they can't answer that question, right? If they say yes, everyone will flip out. If they say no, everyone will flip out. So you can't win with that question.

You're better off just not answering it. Now, of course, I just think the fact that Pence wouldn't agree to the peaceful transition of power, which is like what democracy is founded on. And then they're like, and see, she wouldn't agree to the court packing. What I like about Pence and what I liked about Harris, what they both did, was they didn't, they didn't answer any questions. And honestly, good for them. I mean, fuck the questions. Like, she couldn't control the, she couldn't cut off Pence.

I mean, good for them. Good for Camelish. She shouldn't answer the question. Yeah, I thought she had to get some points across. And I thought, frankly, some of the, a couple of the questions were, you know, a little inside baseball. So I thought she did a good job of talking to the viewers about the stuff that she knows that they want to hear about. And I will say just as a female watching, you know, I did feel like Pence was doing a very classic gaslighting the woman. And it came across that way.

So by the way, the gaslight men and women, but in a situation where there are only two other women on the stage, it did point that out more. And it just, I just think you'll find a lot of women had a visceral at some level reaction to like, oh, I've been with that guy. I've been in a meeting with that guy. Oh, okay. This is the part where he runs long. Okay. Now I got to think about how I'm going to respond. I mean, we all know that feeling.

I think that's right. I think he, there is a very small pool of getable voters out there. And a awful lot of them are swing voters. They're women in the suburbs. And I just keep looking at that guy's performance tonight and thinking, yeah, that's the mansplaining. And he didn't say it outright, but it was like, okay, little lady a couple times. And I think people are not. And look, I think tonight they came into a very bad situation on the Trump side.

Donald Trump is, spent the last 40. hours, tripping balls out of his mind crazy. He's tweeted a gazillion times. He's living a blessing, Rick. He crashed the stock market. It's the super spreader in chief. His numbers have dropped with seniors like crazy. The campaign is in full mutiny right now because of the infections. The White House is basically a ghost town. The Trump campaign started pulling more of their media down today in places like Iowa and Minnesota. They're basically down to airing on Fox News and to keep him happy at Florida. And so Mike Pence came in there tonight with a really bad thing.

Also, his incipient COVID infection because it was bleeding pus-filled eye. Let's talk about whether or not Mike Pence has COVID. Did you hear him laboring? That thing Jesse said to us either day of, you lose your bottom octave and it's a little harder to breathe. And he was huffing a bit today. So look, I suspect that he could have gone in there. He could have had live Ebola.

and he would have still shown up tonight. This was not a good performance for him physically. He looked terrible. He had a fly on his head for two and a half minutes. The headlines on Drudge right now, of course, are the fly and the eye. So it's good luck. Is it a really headline on Drudge? Yes.

To add to that, I did the torturous thing if I watched the Pence-Cain debate today. This is Jesse our producer. During the Lord's work, I might add. You're getting extra gruel for that. Solid work, sir. Yeah, I'm a dedicated employee of the podcast. But very low energy tonight compared to that one. And I will say, not the Mike Pence of four years ago.

And I will say, you know, Tim Cain much, much easier to roll over. But like, ooh, really did not bring the A game tonight. No, but those two visuals are, there's, you can't really argue with the fact that they are, were genuine distractions. I mean, honestly, I kind of couldn't take my eyes off his eye because I was genuinely, of course, we could get the connection between if he's ill or not. And then you get into this whole thing where you're supposed. Blomeney thinking, well, is he going to admit it? Who else is around him? And then, of course, I'm thinking, I wish that Senator Harris wouldn't have shown up tonight. They should do this virtually. They're not safe. And then when the fly started, you're like, okay, that's too much distraction for me.

I'm just going to look at her pretty eyelashes and listen to him, go on and on. I actually think that stuff might affect people. And also, I'm curious to see Trump's reaction to the fact that the fly is now polling ahead of Trump. What my understanding is, the fly is now leading in Wisconsin. The fly is a lessness hero. All right. Kathy, as our special celebrity guest, we need you to give us your,

fuck that guy. Okay, this is going to be pretty easy. Mike Pence, fuck that guy. That's the guy that he was the sloppy seconds to Chris Christie. Ouch. And now he's the actual, or as I call him, the accidental vice president, because we have an accidental president.

It was a big accident. but it happened. And this is a guy that honestly, I think some of the sort of more, whatever you want to say, the classic Republicans really look to him in the beginning thinking he can kind of sort of write this ship in a way. There was a time. I mean, I'm not a fan, but there was a time when he could have ridded the ship. And so I think it's very difficult not to tie him directly to Trump. And it's shocking to watch him get indoctrinated like a freaking member of, you know, right-wing ISIS, go on his degenerate journey to becoming nothing but, the crap under Trump's shoe. And it's like disheartening. Watching him tonight, his performance, so condescending with Senator Harris, so out of his league, eye rolling, shaking his head at the wrong time, not making any salient points, just parroting conspiracy theories that seem to get crazier as the night went on. I just looked at him and I went, fuck that fly.

That guy. I love the fly. Rick Wilson, who was your fuck that guy? My fuck that guy is today, he's my returning. champion. It's once again the president of the United States, Donald John Trump. I know I have a general rule not to have a repeating fuck that guy, but

the psychopathic nature of his behavior is leading this country into enormous danger. He is talking about going back out on the road as early as next week to start in-person events again. Now, they've refused to do contact tracing for the plague events that they were doing before he acknowledged

he had COVID. There's now speculation he had it as early as Sunday. And we know he's not exactly wedded to the truth. So I suspect that his behavior of wanting to get back out there right away is to show he a strong man, but he is going to spread this goddamn disease. He's going to cause more problems with this. This is a reckless and an unbelievably dangerous position to take. But of course, that's what he's going to do because he is, in fact, an asshole and deserves the appellation that we are, that we are prone to dispense in this podcast of fuck that guy.

My fuck that guy is Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani, and I know this because of Mike Madrid, he got tested for COVID. I don't know if he ever got his COVID test yesterday back, but last night there were photos of him at a GOP fundraiser not wearing his mask. Of course not. When he should have been quarantining. So he is, you know, yet another super spreader in the Republican Party. He's my fuck that guy. My honorable fuck that guy mentioned is John Ratcliffe, the.

current political commissar of the Office of National Intelligence, who is now furiously masturbating over a pile of documents in hopes that they will be blessed by some sort of psychic power, and they will release them, and it will cause a thousand flowers to bloom in the Russiagate conspiracy pushback. God bless them, everyone. On that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the new abnormal from the Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking with smart folks from The Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science who will help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. We're just getting started and don't want you to miss an episode.

If you'd like to follow us on Twitter, I'm Molly JongFest and he's the Rick Wilson. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you again on the next episode. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last. laugh and our star studded the Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.