The Daily Beast Podcast - Left-Wing Scared of Loomer Getting White House Job: Bannon

Episode Date: November 3, 2024

Steve Bannon told Laura Loomer this week that the left is having a meltdown at the prospect of Donald Trump giving her a job in the White House if he wins next week’s election. Plus! W. Kamau Bell��joins The New Abnormal to talk about his new viral video, Who’s Gonna Catch Your Kid? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears.

Welcome back to another bonus episode of the new abnormal. I mean, thank you so much for being here today. We're joined by V.W. Camu Bell, and he is here to talk about his new video. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some clips? Clips. Clips. Yeah.

So I'm going to be straight with you. I've assembled a bunch of clips that show a bunch of tales of what we will get if we get a second Trump administration as a motivator for everybody to try to drag anybody they can to the polls and really get every Democratic voter out that's listening to this because, well, we have a cornucopia of hell ahead. So Steve Bannon, the human skin tag, is out of jail and he's really tan, which I don't know how that happens in prison. But he has a preview of who we could look forward to is being in the White House Communications Department. And I should say, here he is with Laura Lumer. You've got the left in mainstream media in total meltdown. Laura Lumer's going to go as comms director of the White House. Laura Lumer's going to go as senior counselor to Trump.

Laura Lumer, right, who doesn't believe in 9-11, who spread false lies about 9-11. She's going to be the communications director. I look forward to her handcuffing herself to lots of things she's mad at. Maybe like a Disney world. The problem is I'm not sure she would be the most insane person in his cabinet. Definitely not. And, you know, considering there's a good amount of proof that her father has had her mentally looked after by professionals before. And yeah, it's not good.

Like, what does that say about your circle, though? She ain't right. You know what we can say about it, though? I mean, could you just imagine her attacking Marjorie Taylor Green from the podium? That would be fun. That's the one thing I will say. Okay, well, I have bad news. It gets way worse.

Here we have this fellow named RFK Jr. You may remember him from bat-shick conspiracy theories about everything medical possible. Well, he says Trump made him a promise. Let's listen to it. I think, you know, that President Trump has promised. me is control of the public health agencies, which are HHS in its sub-agencies, CDC, FDA, NIH, and a few others, and then also the USDA, which is, which, you know, is key to making America healthy because we've got to get off of seed oils and we've got to

get off of... You know, when I listen to him, I understand. why it's so easy to fall in love with him. Those dulcic toads. Yeah. They want us to die. I don't know how else to say this. Like the idea of even floating RFK Jr.

for some kind of health czar, they want us to die. I don't see any other explanation. I think that you're absolutely right. I have no notes on that. I think that that's the ultimate. plan on, you know, like hardship and then just death, you know? Yeah. One of the interesting things, if you listen to a frequent guest of this podcast, Dr. Peter Hotez, is RFK's origin story with this is basically reading a study wrong. That is not the man you want

handling the next pandemic at the CDC. And the idea that he would be anywhere near a lover of power with his half-warmeat and brain is just fucking horrifying. Yes. Yeah. I don't. I don't. I don't. want to think about these people ever again. Like I want them to go back and crawl in back into whatever cave and layer that they've been concocting their plans in and just go back there and shut the door and like stay in their little right-wing lunatic conspiracy bubbles. I want them gone. I don't want to mention Laura Loomer ever again or RFK Jr. Can I have that? Can we get there? Please. It would be so nice. Well, now we have this fellow with a lot of power already named Mike Johnson.

He's the Speaker of the House. He says, here's his plan for health care. Health care reform is going to be a big part of the agenda. When I say we're going to have a very aggressive first hundred case agenda, we've got a lot of things on the table. No, Obamacare. No Obama. Yeah, the ACA is so deeply ingrained. We need massive reform to make this work, and we've got a lot of ideas on how to do that.

This guy is just, like, he has really come from obscurity to rise to. to very near the top of both some people in this country. I just didn't think it was so many, you know? Like I just, I don't know. I didn't think there were so many of them, but here we are. Again, though, like, you know, we were talking about this on Friday show about women and the language, like the fact that Trump is just, he can't help himself and says things that just turn off women voters.

And I feel the same way sort of about this. Like, really, do you want to campaign on ending Obamacare, on ending the Affordable Care Act? I don't think that's a winning message. And it's not because the ACA is perfect or anywhere close to perfect, but it's about how things were before. The idea that we're going to go back to a time when insurance companies could deny you care because of a preexisting condition. and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think that's a winning message. I just don't.

I hope I'm right. I hope you're right, too. And as someone who is on Obamacare for over a decade until literally tomorrow morning, one of the things I think people don't realize is it was near impossible to get health insurance as freelancers. So like what they're basically saying is that the millions of us who freelance, including all three people on this. podcast. Yeah. It's not going to be very pleasant. No, particularly now, like with the gig economy, where just so many people do not have health care through their employer, which, by the way, is the stupidest possible way of doing any kind of health insurance. I don't even understand

who came up with that. But that's why I just don't think this is a winning message. They don't need a winning message. Like, that's the point. Their goal is not to win anything. It's to steal everything. Right? And then to dictate their terms. If they were actually trying to run a campaign or, you know, in a way to increase their base or win over the American people, then Donald Trump would have never been the candidate. But like, that's not the goal here. And I think that, you know, how many times were we waiting on what the Republicans' actual plan was? They don't have one. Because what they want is for us to be sick and desperate and needing to, you know, know, beg our employers for work that can disregard us at any point and time. Like, that's what they want. They want to run little fiefdoms that they get to be kings and queens up. I'm sorry, just kings, because they don't really mess with women like that. Solid point. Okay, now we come to this horrible fellow that I really wish I'd never had to pay attention to do again, like so many of these. One Elon Musk, He agreed with a right-wing influencer this week about crashing the dollar, which, you know, really Americans love that.

Very popular policy. He's spending to look within our means. That necessarily involves some temporary ownership, but it will ensure long-term prosperity. I just want him to fuck all the way off. Like, I'm so sorry. There is nothing better that I can say about that clip. The man is worth $250 billion. He doesn't pay fucking taxes.

And he's going to dictate to Americans about hardship and what we, the 99% must suffer through for a quote unquote short period of time for quote unquote long term prosperity. What does any of that mean? It means that we're going to solidify American oligarchies in this country on the backs of what is left of the middle class poor and working class Americans. We're going to squeeze them for everything that they have. as long as we possibly can, and then somewhere in the distance, it will be those that stand at the tippy, tippy top of the pyramids that receive the long-term prosperity. Go to hell, honestly. If we want to talk about people who are, as Musk likes to call it, taking advantage of government, that's a mirror, buddy. Yeah, and I think this goes to show why you're now seeing the economist,

Bloomberg, all these very pro-business, pro-capitalist papers are endorsing VP Harris, because this is a horrifying reality that these people would have levers of the government. There was an incredible, incredible endorsement written this week in The Verge by editor Nile Patel that I thought was probably the most intellectually smart argument for why the Trump's second administration would be a catastrophe for every single American. I'm glad to see some of these people come into their senses, but it's scary some or not. Yeah, I just want to quickly point out, Jalopnik actually had a piece today about Musk saying this. And the piece pointed out that Elon Musk, the world's richest man, took $822,000 in federal funding from the Paycheck Protection Program, these PPP loans, remember those that were supposed to be for small businesses during COVID. He took almost a million dollars in federal funding and then had those loans forgiven. the world's richest man, and he wants to sit there and talk about people taking advantage of government.

I just, there's no circle in hell bad enough for him. There just isn't. Strong agree. All right. We have one last thing that doesn't fit this pattern. It's a little moment of levity here. It comes from the five, one of our least favorite shows, and host Jesse Waters, who's a frequent guest on this show. Or I should say, who's a frequent appear on these clips?

I'm like, who invited him? All right, let's let him dig his own grave. I know a lot of people. You did say you liked your hair. I don't believe these fake stories that you're saying on television about these guys that they say that they voted for Trump and now they're voting for hers because of their daughters. That is such a lie, Harold. I know you and I've met your friends and none of your friends strike me as that lame.

And if I found out Emma was going into the voting booth and pulling the lever for Harris, that's the same thing as having an affair. That's me. Oh, my God. Let him finish. Go, Jesse. It's our day. That violates the sanctity of our marriage.

What else is she keeping from me? Exactly. What else has been lying about? Why would she lie to you? Have you threatened her? Why would she lie to you? Oh, they want me to tease. Why would she do this?

and then vote Harris. Why would she say she was voting Trump? He's not the price. And then voting Harris. And I caught her. And then she said, I lied to you for the last four years. You admit you're intimidated. It's over, Emma.

That would be D-D. And this segment is over. And the fassus is up next. And the fishing tree. Mm-mm-mm. It's interesting to me that Jesse Waters would say this is the equivalent of an affair. Oh, shit. Jesse Waters was married and had daughters with a woman before his current wife.

He cheated on his former wife with his now current wife. He had an affair. So for him to sit there, it's like these people have absolutely, they have like no internal monologue. They have nothing inside that would say, oh, maybe I shouldn't, you know, given how my marriage to this woman's, started. Maybe I shouldn't compare this to an affair, but he's so fucking stupid. And, you know, as we've said countless times on the show, they don't care about being hypocrites. You can't shame them because they have no shame. But it's just, it's absolutely wild to me that he would compare that to having an affair, given his history. I mean, that tea was hot, Andy. That's all.

Right. You know, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that, that quote. I was like, really? That's where you're going? I will say this, though. Women. If you find yourself in relationship with somebody that you have to lie to about how you are casting your vote, you may want to rethink that relationship, in all honesty. Someone that you are living with and supposedly loving that is voting against your best interest and the best interests of people that you care about, maybe that ain't the one. Just a little dating advice from me.

Yes, I agree with that, but we all know that there are women who are in relationships, including marriages, who are scared to get out of them. Yes, I am not talking about people that are in domestic abuse relationships. I am talking specifically about people who are in relationships with folks that they're just like, oh, we don't talk about politics because, you know, that's icky. Or I had no idea that he was a misogynist. And it's like, really? You had no idea. You don't talk about these things. And now you're with somebody that is voting against your best interests

and you're needing to, like, lie about that vote. Rethink your situation. Gotcha. Well, I hope on the other side of this podcast, things go back to being nice, light and breezy. We could start doing dating advice on Sundays. You're welcome. The biggest election of our lifetimes is less than a month away.

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Beast.pub slash October surprise. Folks, I am very, actually, I think that you've been here before. But my time is all off. So I will say this. Have I been here before? It's hard to know with podcasts. It honestly is hard to know. Well, I'm glad to be back.

Or I'm glad to be finally on after all these years of wanting to be on. Or I'm offended that I was on and then I wasn't on for a long time. Right. I'm happy to return after a long absence. What happened? Folks, I am so happy. to be in conversation today with W. Kamau Bell, comedian and documentary filmmaker, whose recent video, who's going to catch your kid?

Layed it out very clearly, I don't have kids, but I damn sure know who I don't want catching my kid. But Kamau, talk to us about your video, why it was important for you to make it, and what you are hoping that people take from it with just days until, the final day to vote on November 5th. Well, yeah, I just want to be clear. It's not just my video. It's actually written by Adam Mansbach, who people know as the writer of the book,

Go the Fuck to Sleep. In addition to many, many, many other books, he also wrote the movie Barry about Obama that was on Netflix back in the day. He also does political videos every season, and we've collaborated on things before. Famously, back when Trump was a candidate who nobody took seriously,

we told white people that he was their responsibility and they needed to come get their boy. White people did not do that. So, yeah, so me and Adam are both dads who live in the Bay area in the East Bay. We hang out together. Our families hang out together. And every political season, he sort of comes to me and goes, what are we doing? And so like this was, and we went through a bunch of different ideas.

And ultimately, I think I was the one who was like, I feel like, JD Vance was in peak J.D. Vance mode. And I was like, I feel like this is about him. I feel like this is about how he is in the world and how and how I don't want that guy to represent me. And so we really sort of narrowed down on the whole idea of like, this is. dads versus dads. I love that. And I love the idea of it being really dads versus dad because they're two, and I feel like it's male versus male, right, in so many ways. In one way, Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Maga Republicans have created this very caveman toxic masculinity row image of what a man should be doing.

And then by distinction, based on this hyper, you know, alpha male, what a woman's role and responsibility should be. Yes. Versus yourself and who I would also say a Tim Walz, right? And a Doug Emhoff and the kind of man that you can be. So talk to us about that. I mean, and how that actually lands with men and how it lands with fathers that you know and interact. with. You know, I think that it's funny. It just didn't used to offend me, but I will say I'm sort of exhausted by it now. The commercials where the dad is like, toothpaste, how do you put that on the

toothbrush? And he squirts toothpaste all over his kid's hair, which is sort of like, there are dads out here working hard every day to provide for their kids to support their families and who understand that like their whole role is to make sure their kids have the best shot at this life as possible. And we don't necessarily need thanks. You know, we, as I said yesterday to my fellow dad, we don't get Father's Day. We get Father's Breakfast. But, you know, it's not a big deal. So, but I do think that like we as dads, we have to stand up some time and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, we do not want to be represented by these dads. And we want to make it clear that this is a version of fatherhood that most of us aren't engaged in. And so I think sometimes as dads, we sort of

get used to like not standing up for the dad part of ourselves. And I think this was a time to be like to really take pride. I mean, I think me and Adam both take, we both have three daughters. We both take a lot of pride in being dads. We both have those conversations where you're like, I can't believe my kids, blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, if you come for my kids, and my kids know this too, I will ruin you. Like, luckily, I have a platform and a profile where I can sort of stand, I can sort of send out the dad signal and call the other dads together. I mean, I love that. And I think that often, just the image of what you conveyed with a commercial and this, like,

it's always been like the goofy foolishness of, well, if the mom is not in the picture, then like everything goes array. And dads don't know how to do anything. And then it's a self-perpetuating image and idea and stereotype that we see play out in Hollywood, that we see play out now, unfortunately, in our politics. One of the things that I was alerted to recently is, you know, Gen Z, and I don't know how old your girls are, but this younger generation that is just getting ready to vote for the first time. When Donald Trump ran the first time in 2016, they were maybe like, I don't know, 11, 12, 13 years old. They didn't hear the access Hollywood tapes.

They didn't have really any understanding of what Donald Trump had said and done and how. now after hearing it, they're looking at their dads, these young Gen Z women and men, and saying, how did you let this happen? Yeah. So what do you make of that, too, that what is new to this younger generation that may be entering the poll booth for the first time, this is their third time around hearing about Donald Trump? Yeah, yeah.

And they're like, how looking at their dads and saying, he's an adjudicated rapist. Yeah. He has 34 felonies. Yeah. Like he said on audio that he could grab a woman wherever he wants. Like, how? How? And then if you go to the millennial dad, the millennial parents don't remember that Donald Trump took out an ad in New York papers calling for the death penalty for the Central Park five, now the exonerated five.

And so I'm a Gen X dad who's like, oh, yeah, I remember all this. You know what I mean? So like I feel very, so I have Gen Alpha kids. So they are not voting yet, but they are, although they are voting at school, my middle kid is running for, they just to run for president of her classroom. They all have to run for president of the classroom with, you know, just as a way to sort of engage them with politics. I love that. I think the thing is about the younger generation. This is true of younger generations always. The more connected you are to schooling, the more you are sort of connected to are what morality is and what isn't, what isn't, what isn't. So whereas when you get to be an adult, you're like, I'm trying to get to this life. And so the younger generation often is like, wait a minute. I just learned that like, we, should share and cooperate at school. I just learned that you shouldn't bully at school. I just learned all these things. And now you're telling me that this guy is one of the choices for the president of the United States of America. And so I think it really is a shocker for younger people, which is why I don't have any problem with younger people causing noise and causing

the good trouble, as John Lewis would say, and encampments and all those things. Because it's like, that's what they have the energy and they're supposed to do it. And they're supposed to wake us up and be like, you settled for too little. And we were the ones who used to, you know, I'm part of the Gen Z's Gen X generation. So we were the slacker generation and the angry slackers. And so we, maybe we did settle for two a little, but every generation pushed it as far as they can. So I love the fact that Gen Z is like holding us to account on issues bigger than just Donald Trump and Kamala Harris on issues of like, and you know, this is the difficult part of this is like, I believe that is a genocide in Gaza and Palestine.

I believe that the government should embargo. I understand the Democratic Party and then Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are the ones who supported that. And yet in this moment, I'm like, politics is not beanbag. You get the choices you get. If Trump's back in office, he will be literally on the war path. And that will mean, and as a black man, I'll say, that will mean black people will die at a higher rate. And specifically, black women will die at a higher rate. So I think that, like, I have to make the choice that feels best, given the choices I have.

And I just, I think that it is so important. And I want to ask you this to, during this election cycle, black men have been targeted in ways that honestly I hadn't seen before. Black men have been called out as either going over to the dark side to Donald Trump in waves. And we've seen this with some of the rappers that I would have never thought 30 years ago that they would be standing up and alongside Donald Trump. And yet, there they are. And then you have others that are saying, well, the vote has always been the same with black men about 85 to 90 percent. So why are we even making this a thing in terms of the votes for Democrats? Talk to me about being a black man in this moment and listening to two different

sides tell different narratives about who your community actually is and what they're doing and how that feels. Well, so first of all, you know, and I hate this because I got caught up in this black discussion on one of my cable news hits and I was just a blackman discussion and I really was surprised by it and didn't answer the way I wanted to. So let's just be clear. If Kamala loses, it is white people's fault. Correct. A hundred and fifty fucking percent. Let's just be clear that if every black person votes for Kamala and white people just vote the way they generally vote, she probably loses. You know what I mean? So like, especially with the electoral college being the thumb on the scale of democracy. Yeah. So I think that like that's just where let's just

start there that it's really, and this is what me and Adam said back in the day, it's really white people who need to talk to white people. But as always, and I've heard people say this, like, the store security guard will follow the black guy around the store. Meanwhile, the middle-aged white woman is stealing everything. It's just the sense of like, we like to literally target black people, black men in this country. And that's the way this country was built, was to target black men and to use black men as a political cudgel or, you know, when needed. And so that's just, that's just that. Second of all, I've, I just was on. on MSNBC to sort of again on cable news.

And there's a group of black men in Georgia who were talking about why they are supporting Kamala Harris and it was around reproductive rights and specifically around maternal mortality rates. Black women maternal mortality rates, they had all had wives who'd been affected or even wives who had died after giving birth. That's what black men we need to do. Those of us who are supporting Kamala and have reasons to, we need to talk to each other. We don't need to be on, they were on cable news, but we don't need to be on cable news, but we don't need to be on. We don't need to be arguing this with cable news hosts, all right? We need to talk to each other, and that's part of what I do, part of why I use my platform the way I do.

And not, this is like an inside community conversation. And often is about misinformation. I think there's a, there's a Roland Martin clip that went viral of some brother who said he was a Black Lives Matter chapter, whatever, you know, Black Lives Matter has been turned into so many things. But, and he was saying Donald Trump did all this for the HBCUs and given all this money. And Roland was like, slow down. just sort of fact-checked him in real time to say that the amount of money that Donald Trump gave

is nowhere close to what the Biden administration is given. And the brothers sort of melted in front of Roland Martin. And I'm sure he was embarrassed. But it's like, that's what we have to do. We have to fight the misinformation with information because a lot of these brothers are voting for Trump because they don't even because of all things that aren't true or what they've read online. And so I think that's what we need to do is come together and talk to each other. I don't think vote shaming works, especially with I just, and as a black person, I would. wouldn't want to vote, shame somebody else. The thing I've been telling everybody I know is like, look, it is super important for you to vote in local elections because that's the stuff you will see

in your community. And while you're in there, pick a president. Okay, like just like, but first, think about voting is not just about the top of the ticket. So get in there. And also do have conversations with people outside of your immediate circle. Do research outside of your media circle. Don't get your news from one place. If you're getting your news from just one place, you're not getting enough of the story. I think that that's right. And I, You know, I too, I mean, I get very angry, very, like, passionate about the tricks and the disinformation and the lies. And I think that largely the disrespect alone that Donald Trump and Maga Republicans have

shown black people, people of color, queer people, like, it should be enough, right? Like, to just to discredit you, to disredit you, to disqualify. of value for folks not to align with Donald. There's no amount of money, frankly. I mean, it was 50. 50 cent came out recently and said, oh, yeah, they wanted to pay me $3 million, you know, to perform at his concert. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm good.

Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm good, you know. And he, I mean, he made a joke about it. Like, basically, like, I, you know, he's like, you see Kanye, he can only perform in Egypt now. And I'm like, well, that's pretty much because Kanye, you know, said a lot of anti-Semitic shit. That was terrible.

but not just because he got involved in politics. But it's just this idea that you can throw money at black people. You can, you know, sell, like, nasty sneakers and, like, appeal to the lowest common denominator and think that, like, and put black letters on a white t-shirt that's black for Trumps. And, like, that's, and that's what you're doing. That's what your outreach looks like. So I get angry at that point, but I think that you're correct in terms of, like, you don't change. people, right? You just say, where did you get your information from? And let's unpack it. Yeah. And I think what you said makes you think of two things. One, it's the idea that like,

black Republicans generally know it is not a good look to be a famous black Republican. Like there are many black Republicans who are going to go in there and vote for Trump who are not going to walk on stage with him because they know that's a bad look. And every black person knows black Republicans, but even 50 cent found moral high ground in that moment, which, which is just like, which is just like, yeah. And also probably that's not the number Trump campaign. It's probably way, there might be a number, but it is way more than $3 million, you know. If I'm going to be your mascot, it's not going to be at that number.

Oh, that's the word too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much because that is 100% it. I also, too, I want to ask you about your thoughts on, again, it is important to have conversations. And I think that I say it often.

White people need to talk to white people. They don't listen to me. I'm a black queer woman. I can speak as much as I do and encourage people and provide information, but you need to talk to your people. And so what I don't like, though, is what mainstream corporate media has done, which is create these food fight situations at roundtables. We saw recently at CNN, Medi Hassan, and the absolutely disgusting things that were said by Ryan Gurdowski to him at the table at CNN. And I want to get your thoughts on, you know, these types of roundtable discussions, are they helpful? Or is it just continuing to platform white supremacist, liars, and then trying

to create a false both sides conversation? Yes. So my short answer is yes. But I would say this, that like this is what I think is interesting. I remember like 10 years ago when Twitter was first really getting on. And when YouTube really was becoming a part of mainstream conversation, I noticed that like a left-wing political YouTuber and a right-wing political YouTuber would engage in these debates, these public debates. It was, everybody was like, why don't you debate me? And then it would show up at a place and debate each other. And you would watch a clip. And one of them would post a clip and it would say, watch me own this right-wing, blah, blah, blah. Then the right-wing guy would post the same clip and it would say watch me own this left way and blah blah blah.

Well, that has now entered cable news. And there's been a lot of talking about how cable news like that is not Fox News or News Nation or all those other ones or one American news network, like sort of like more middle of the road, CNN, MSNBC has a hard time finding right wing people who aren't what's the what's the word for lunatics that is politically correct? Lunatics is what I'm saying. They're all under the Trump umbrella. for the most part. There are people who, like, Terracet Myers, one who's not. But if you, but also cable

news is now a business that wants to make money. So they need to make it exciting. And so you have a guy like Ryan Gurdusky, who I think had that thing in the tuck, had that written down like, I'm going to say this. And then, but wasn't powerful enough to say it and sit back and smile. He was like, yeah, oh, did I just go too far? And you could see his face. His face fell immediately. But they're going on there to have viral moments. And for clicks, they're not going on there for real discussions. Now, The thing is, Medi Hassan is one of the greats that, like, I can go in the gutter with you, and I can also go off the top of my head's intellectual academia with you. And so he can get that.

And so he fired right back at him right away. And that's when Ryan realized he was in over his skis. But the fact is, is that those discussions for them, and I love Abby Phillip. I'm not, this is not about her. But those discussions are set up to be explosive. And when they're not explosive, they won't bring you back. Like, they won't like so. You won't get rebooked.

be going there, well, I would like to say a very reasonable response to what you, that's not what those things are for. I think most of that has moved to the podcast space when it is about reasonable discussions. And also now CNN, which I worked out for seven years, is trying to figure out what do we do in this space because they stepped away from the space they were owning for a while. And now I think the network is a drift. And it is nobody's fault who works there is the fault of the leadership. Yeah, 100%. Well, Kamau, we will have to leave it there today. But I hope that you won't take too long in coming back to this podcast. I appreciate you so much. Thank you for making the time for the new abnormal. Thanks for having me. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal.

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