The Daily Beast Podcast - MAGA Riot’s Chilling Reality: Regular Folks, Ready to Kill

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

One of the most frightening aspects of the assault on the U.S. Capitol was how, well, normal some of the participants seemed—and how openly they spoke of their willingness to murder other Americans if President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral victory was certified. The Daily Beast’s Will Sommer was outside the Capitol on Jan. 6 and described his conversations with the rioters to co-hosts Rick Wilson and Molly Jong-Fast on the latest episode of The New Abnormal.   “I was really struck by the people I talked to who were not necessarily crazed QAnon people... but kinda just like people you might think of as your neighbors, your grandparents,” Sommer said. “And just almost to, to a person, they were all just like, ‘Well, if Joe Biden gets his votes certified today, there’s going to be violence and we’re going to kill people, and there’s gonna be a civil war. Then, Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) joined Wilson and Jong-Fast to talk about what happened after he was told to “take out a gas mask and get ready to duck” inside the Capitol. For a while, Swalwell said, the reality of the danger just was not sinking in. “I still thought, there’s no way they’re coming in here—until the house chaplain went up to the podium where the president usually speaks for the State of the Union,” he said. “And she started offering a prayer and I thought, OK, they’re going to get in here. This is not good.” Sommer said he was struck by the “huge amount of entitlement” among the MAGA rioters. “I do feel like so much of the reaction, both from the rioters and the people who were there at the protest in general, was this shock that laws would apply to them,” he said. “...A weird thing I heard a lot at the Capitol was this idea that if you pay taxes, you could just break into whatever federal building you feel like. And because your taxes in an indirect way pay for the Capitol Police that... you’re their boss.” When the conversation shifted to President Donald Trump’s impeachment in the House, Wilson said more Republicans would have voted to impeach if the vote hadn’t been public. “One of the guys that voted in favor of impeachment told me… if it was a secret ballot, Trump would have been impeached with 50 percent or more of the caucus voting against him.” “They’re fucking petrified,” Wilson said. “Well, guess what? You created this monster and you kept feeding it. You kept it in the basement. You hauled it out to vote every two years, but you kept feeding it and now it’s loose and it hates you more than it hates anything. I say this a lot: There’s nothing a Trump voter hates more than a Republican that doesn’t support Trump.” Want more? Become a Beast Inside member to enjoy a limited-run series of bonus interviews from The New Abnormal. Guests include Cory Booker, Jim Acosta, and more. Head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com to join now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi folks, it's Rick Wilson, and welcome to The Daily Beast's The New Abnormal. Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, a left-wing pundit and editor-at-large at the Daily Beast. I'm also an editor at The Daily Beast, a former Republican political strategist, best-selling author, and full-time troublemaker. We're here to have fun, sharp conversations with some of the smartest people in media, politics, business, and science that help make what's happening in the country and the world clearer. I'll try to keep Rick to the minimum number of F-bombs and try to keep our... kids, pets, and other wildlife sounds from invading our respective bunkers. Well, Molly, we've got the very first president in history to be the winningest winner of all the winners that ever existed in the history of winning, the special, special contest we call

How many impeachments can you get? Yeah, the second impeachment really hits a spot. I, for one, am tired of all the winning. And I think this was just the most winningest win of all the wins for Donald Trump, because no one else will ever rival him in the history of this great republic for having been impeached twice. We shouldn't say that. It's possible that... Do you think I'm jinxing us? Yeah, President Tucker Carlson gets impeached more than once.

I mean, it's certainly definitely a new day in dysfunction in our American government. But I do think it is interesting to me, and I was watching yesterday, that Republicans went so quickly from the election was stolen, and this is rigged, and they Democrats have stolen this election from us to this amazing narrative that it's all about unity. We've all got to come together. Right. How dare Democrats try to hold Trump responsible for crimes? That he committed.

Right. Unity. And the analogy, and I'm not being flipping about this. This is like a domestic abuser who says, you know, I know I hit you. Don't make me angry by reminding me I hit you or I'll hit you again. this is how sick and pathological this thing is now. They are in a profoundly abusive relationship with Trump. They can't get out of it. They can't set him on fire while he sleeps, or they could, but they're just chicken shit. But on the other hand, they know they can't go out into the world anymore and pretend that this is normal. Well, but they're going to try. Yeah, of course. Listen, the Republicans have become very, very, very expert. And believe me, I know, I helped build this fucking playbook of playing the refs, of working, working the refs, and trying to say the things that they know that the Washington media will respond to. The Washington media is programmed at a deep level to want to see comedy and civility and immature people, working out their difference in a mature way. Right. There's a framing there. Right. But let's talk

about Josh Hawley because Josh Hawley saw the opportunity. He saw that the MAGA base got very excited about this election fraud scheme and decided he was going to run with it because he wanted to be president in 2024, right? It's just the most sort of craven opportunist. Now, I'm going to read you this Axios poll today with Josh Hawley, underwater with both ours and not well liked even among Trumpy Republicans. You hate to see it. But explain to me what happened there, because you would think that would be sort of the moment, right? The Trumpy senator embraces the Trumpy lie, the Trumpy big lie, and yet it didn't work for him. You know, Molly, and I just want to give a shout out to the Holly staffer who has been trawling all my social media and going through all my podcasts. I heard about that yesterday.

So good luck to you. She listens to the pod. It has been assigned to listen to all the podcasts or find a transcript of them. I wish you the best of luck. You will hear the words, fuck, fuck, fucking shitbird, shit. Just beep it all out, Jesse. Very frequently in the course of this, and I hope your delicate Missouri sensibilities are not deeply offended. But Josh Hawley is a guy who came from an upper middle class family in Missouri, okay?

Got into an elite school. Got into another. Isn't he building a country house in the Ozarks? He is because he doesn't have a house in the Ozarks. He uses his sister's address illegally, claimants his address. His mortgage and his homeowner's tax deduction is in the great state of Virginia. Hi, Josh. The thing about Josh Hawley, you should know.

This guy is this very American story of the kid born into the upper middle class. And when he discovers there's this world of the magical meritocracy out there at Stanford and Yale. and, you know, as a Supreme Court clerk, he starts to hate who he is and where he's from. He hates it. He can't stand it. He doesn't want to be in Jack Fuck, Missouri. He wants to be in Davos. He doesn't want to be a guy from the middle of dirt country, a flyover country. He wants to be in the most glittering conferences at Aspen and in Washington and in all the each and meanwhile, I have to say, just a quick aside, I saw Ozarks. I love that show. And I would absolutely love to go there. So just a quick

one of the best written shows on television right now. Absolutely genius writers group there. And great acting as well. Yeah. And it also is very much of our time because, you know, every time he gets out of a problem, a bigger one emerges, you know? It's true. It's very, it's very 2020, looking back. But he's got this gigantic chip on his shoulder of pure, loathing class anxiety. He just wants to be the biggest, the best. He's always been told from the minute he was

born, you're the special snowflake, you're the perfect child. I guarantee you, his parents hustled him back and forth to every extra creepler activity in the world. He's like a machine programmed from the future to come back here and run as the combination of Trumpist nationalism and elite credentialism. Well, you only get to pick one, dude. And so right now, he's not ever going to be invited back to places like Davos or Aspen or Palm Beach. Those places are now foreclosed to him. You know why? Because he is with Bobert and Cothorne and Goomert and Gates and the rest of the clown crew of the Cletus the slack-jawed yokel Trump train. That's what he's pet. And you can, like I said, this guy, you can see this like class anxiety rolling off of him all the time. And look, a lot of

members of Congress are like this, okay? They're like high achieving enough. in their state to suddenly go to an ivy or to go to a great school and sort of get into the credentialism, the credential world. And then they don't want to be that anymore. They don't want to be that guy anymore. I don't want to be a guy from Missouri. Oh, my honor. Now I'm from, I'm a sophisticated U.S. Senator. I was a Supreme Court clerk. Josh Hawley is Ted Cruz with 25% more social graces and fewer jowls. Okay. Right. Doesn't this? I mean, there were other senators who voted to overturn. in the election and ruin democracy forever. But isn't the two

people who really got left holding the bag, Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley? You mean co-conspirators in the seditious plot to overthrow the United States? Right. Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't think anyone gives a shit about Cindy Hyde Smith.

Right. Who also voted to overturn democracy and is probably crazy, I want to use some kind of southern expression here. There are red mold smarter than Sidney Hyde Smith. Right. She's a no count. But somehow she's not left holding the bad.

here. No, but look, Ron Johnson sure is. He was absolutely a part of it. Yeah, but Ron Johnson was actively spreading disinformation on Meet the Press. I mean, Ron Johnson, I don't know what happened to him, but he's, he broke. You know, he's like the Devin Nunes of the Senate. Yeah, something broke Ron Jahn. You know what, Molly? Yes. Speaking of broken brains, you know who you haven't mentioned in many an episode? Louis Gomer. No, your favorite person with a broken brain. Devin Nunes? Yes. I feel like we've, I feel we've left Devin off the radar screen for a while. Devin hasn't been so involved because, you know, the sort of kings of the stop-the-steel trying to overturn the election have been, you know, there's two representatives from Arizona.

You mean to say the chief co-conspirators and the seditious plot to overthrow the United States government? Right. Gosar, Congressman Dentist, and Mo Brooks. You've got to fight, fight, fight. Gozars ratting him, family is ratting him out that he wanted to, he was encouraging the coup plot. Those Gosart siblings really hate him. Listen, every family has sibling rivalries and sibling and sibling issues. Every family does. But I think there are like six or seven of them, right? And they're happy to go on television at any time.

They're all like, yeah, fuck my brother, that asshole. Right, it's true. And literally, I've seen them on television so many times and they're like, he's just, I He's not well, he's not smart. I don't know what's wrong with him. Yeah, he's terrible. Right. There's some serious fuckery there in that family.

Where do we think we're at with impeachment? Is there any state of play here? Yeah, I have some insight for you. And I've been told this is Mitch McConnell's conundrum by a senior Senate staffer. This person said to me last night, you've got to remember Mitch McConnell is transactional on the one hand. Right. And so he sees you guys, Lincoln, Pratch, and many others, cutting off their money.

And that, by the way, is accelerating by the minute. By the minute that's accelerating. Corporate America, weird, call me crazy. Corporate America is anti-violent overthrow of the United States government. I don't know why. I can't figure it out. Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned guy. Maybe I'm missing something the kids love today.

But they're anti-a-coo. Call me crazy. They're not so on the coup. So, you know, so he feels that pressure on the one hand. I don't know if you saw the video that Rick Scott, the incoming chairman of the NRC made. Yes, Rick Scott is also part of the pro-violent insurrection caucus. Let me tell you, that outfit is wearing the whole, like, fishing vest and the baseball cap. It looked more like a guy who would say, I'm Rick Scott.

I've got a puppy in my van. Would you like to pet him? You know, it's just frightening. And I've known this guy. Look, I've been around this guy for a long time now. I mean, since 2010, I've seen this guy, and he never gets less weird and creepy and, like, snake-like. How does Rick Scott keep his job, though, if he needs to raise money and he... Billions of dollars.

Right, he has billions of dollars, but he's got to raise. I mean, it can't all be his money, right? Right, no, no. He has to go out and hustle. And so Steve Scalise and Rick Scott and a few others are now out trying to tell their donors, Hey, don't worry about it. You can make the Vig in 90 days when your amount comes due. Well, these companies, I don't think it's going to go well for them because some of the people

that they're already hitting up are snitching on them to us at Lincoln Project already. That's good. And it's kind of great. They're like, don't worry, we're not going to do it. And we're like, well, you know, we know you're not going to do it. There's a report filed every 90 days. It's a public record. Right.

So that's cool. Don't worry. Abe is watching. So Mitch McConnell understands that if you, cut off financially that they have to raise all of their money online from the crazy Trumpers. Because the online giving audience for Republicans now, if you looked at any Republicans' email fundraising appeal, any single one of them ever in the last year, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Those people are frightening Mitch McConnell on the other side of the equation because he has to raise

money from them, therefore he has to do crazy shit all the time. that he hates. And if he doesn't, and if he lets his caucus vote for impeachment, which would save a lot of the incumbents that are up in 2022, they'll get primaried by crazy people. So he's in a terrible position. And the person that gave me this information, very senior Senate person, a loyalist, by the way, to the institution and to the Republicans there, this person was like, it was like a shrug. It was like, oh, well, I don't even care. I'm going to, I can retire, fuck it, I'm out. Yeah.

Can Rick Scott stay in that fundraising position if he can't fundraise? I mean, don't, why won't Republicans try to sort of rebuild themselves as a more legitimate organization? Or is that ship just sailed? It's just gone. They don't care. They just don't care. I mean, they have reached a point, let me phrase it this way.

They reached a point where they understand the damage is so extensive that what they're going to try to do is cauterize it and triage it in as many places as they can. they're going to try to save as many seats as they can in 24 and to avoid as many primaries as they can. And I think that that is something that they, that they are really, right? 22, I'm so sorry, 22. Now, 24 is going to be even more of a shit show. That's a terrible map for them. Yes, it's a terrible map for them.

So what happened yesterday was the most bipartisan impeachment ever. Ten Republicans voted to impeach. Talk to me about how that has. happened and how they're doing and how, I mean, that seems like a lot to me. I've talked to a couple of them, and I'll say this. They're scared in the short term. One of the guys that voted in favor of impeachment told me that he said the number of calls and signal and telegram conversations in the last 36 hours about this. He said if it was a secret ballot, Trump would have been impeached with 50% or more of the caucus voting against him.

Yeah, I'm sure. But he said the death threat stuff is real. It's absolutely real. They're terrified. Really? Tell us about it. No, they are terrified of this. Oh, yes, I'm sorry. I was missing you. I mean, there are two of us who get endless death threats all the time.

I don't get them as badly as you do. But, I mean, fuck them. My favorite death threat for the last few days was, well, it wasn't really a death threat. It was really like an animal cruelty threat. And I think he meant to say, I'm coming to fuck you up. Right. But instead, I'm coming to fuck you pup, P-U-P. I'm like, you're not having sex with my dog.

get the fuck out of here. Pervert. But yeah, no, I mean, the death threat, it's so funny because it's like for the last four years and funny is not the right word. I mean, it's ironic that for the last four years, the AOC and Ilhan Omar have had these absolutely, you know, the most vile death threats in the entire world. And now all of a sudden Republicans are like, we don't like these death threats. Really, guys? Right. Oh, I'm sure.

Right. Yeah. When they send me pictures of me, when they send pictures to me of my kids with. bullet holes photoshopped in their heads. That's hilarious. You cook? Why are you whining? Toughen up, Snowflake. And now it's like, you know, they're fucking petrified. Well, guess what? You motherfuckers created this monster and you kept feeding it. You kept it in the basement. You hauled it out to vote every two years, but you kept feeding it. And now it's loose. And it hates you more than it hates anything. I say this a lot. There's nothing.

Trump voter hates more than a Republican that doesn't support Trump. I think that's right. So what about these 10 good Republicans? Actually, there's 11 because one guy voted, sort of voted half, right? Yeah, yeah. What about these guys? I mean, are they going to be safe? Are they going to be primaried? They're going to be primaried.

They're all going to get primaried. Everyone is going to get primary. Some of them come from states where it's not so Trumpy, where they are more famous than their trumper. Yeah, but I'm just going to tell you. you, they will all get a primary. They'll all pull a primary. And there's a simple incentive reason for that. All the Trump grifter groups, all the scumbag groups are going to say, it was Adam Kinsinger who betrayed our dear leader. Otherwise, we would have held the Oval

Office, even though it's bullshit, right? Or Liz Cheney or Herrera Butler or whoever. They have an incentive to keep the MAGA base stoked up. And there's nothing they hate more than a Republican who defies Donald Trump. It's the thing that makes their fucking brains explode. They can't stand it. And they make money running for office. It's the Ron Paul thing where you can run for office and make money. It's exactly the Ron Paul kind of thing. Ran Paul, Ron Paul, either one. I don't know. I think Rand Paul may just be a problem with his father. Ron was the one who ran for office all the time. Yes. He ran for president and made money for president. It's kind of a grift. Yeah, he had institutionalized running for president as a as a financial.

model. It's kind of like Ralph Nader. Right, exactly. Right. Ran is the one who got into the fight with his neighbor. And no one should ever get in a fight with their neighbor. Now, where is the impeachment? It's going to the Senate. It's at the Senate. Mitch can decide. By the schedule, it has to be brought up on the morning of the 21st by 1 o'clock, or the 20th by 1 o'clock. So it cannot now happen until after Donald Trump is out of office. Right, which is what he was hoping. Which is what McConnell wanted. Now, I, I'm I personally don't like it this model.

I think it should have been done while he was still in office. That's just me. You know, maybe I have a different sensibility to this, but that was my thought. He can still be held to trial, right? That is correct. He can still be held, right. And they can remove his presidential benefits, which I think stands to every bit of reason under the sun. and they can also, they can also directly strike at his ability to run for office again.

Right, which is necessary. And look, I know that we're not supposed to encourage cancel culture. But to save this country for the future, the utter destruction of Donald Trump, the absolute destruction of Donald Trump financially, politically and personally, is going to, you know, all these whiny bitch republic is like, We have to heal now and come together. So Joe Biden must compromise with us. Get the fuck out of here.

Yeah. The way to do this now, the way to heal the nation now is you have to destroy Donald Trump's ability to get back in this system. Now, the dismantling of Trump's ability to raise money, to be on social media, et cetera, all these people that are cancel country. Yes, yes, he's being canceled. Yes, that's why. Right. Because he tried to overthrow the United States government. I just think it's super important.

I mean, really, really super important that we keep in mind that unless Donald Trump is put down, unless he is unable to get back on TV and to go out in form a media company and be held accountable for the fact that he is a criminal, then we're going to get more of that when you do something bad and you don't get punished for it, guess what you do? More shit that's bad. Exactly. So I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan of the cancellation of Donald Trump. a Trump or person as a consultant yesterday. You know, and he's been touching base now that the end is near.

And he's like, man, you can't make a list of people that work for Trump. That's just, that's just wrong, man. You can't do it. You can't do it. I'm like, bitch, you wrote a fucking blurb for a book by Corley Wendowski that said I should be banned from working in any capacity forever. Get the fuck out of here.

So do we think, though, this is now just a war of narrative of that if the Democrats can make an argument that he needs to be held accountable versus the Republicans who are probably just going to say that this is all just revenge on Trump. Why should we vote now that he's out of office? That's what Ben Shapiro said today on Playboy. Oh, God.

Don't tell me. I said the same thing as him. So now they'll have a real impeachment trial in the Senate? They'll just have a vote. They'll whip it through as quick as they can. It will come and go like lightning. It will just be... But he could get removed still, right?

Like, you can't remove him, I guess, if he's already been removed, right? Well, look. He will have been, he will have lost his office on the 20th at 12.01 p.m. The office will have left him. He doesn't leave the office. But the idea that you're blocking him from future political participation, that's a big signal. We've never done anything like that before. We've never even come close to that. But I think people also need to, and it speaks to how just completely fucked up we are after the last five years. Everyone woke up this morning and they're like, hey, you know, maybe the craziest thing in the world. wasn't that the president of the United States was just impeached in the House of Representatives for trying to violently overthrow the government. Oh, okay. You know, the fact that we think that's like somewhere in the spectrum of not completely crazy town is a real commentary on where we are as a country right now. So what do we think happens now?

I think the combination of Airbnb, the federal government, and the airlines, I think they've made enough precautionary moves. Right. And the hotels in D.C. basically shutting down. Come on, guys. You don't think that Trump's speech yesterday made it so all those powers are going to behave? I want you to not, not do violence.

Don't not do it. Definitely don't not do it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was good. People definitely like that. That smoothed the waters. Yeah. I have a question with Trump not paying Rudy's legal bills.

Who does Trump think is going to represent him in the impeachment? Well, he said Alan Dershowitz was going to represent him, but Dershowitz today made a statement saying, I haven't heard or talked to anyone on the Trump team at all about this. The what? Also, I can tell you something about all these guys. The reputation established now for not paying his contractors in the legal space has meant that the quality of said contractors has gone from in the beginning. Don McGahn's and your white shoe law firms. And as it's become more evident that Trump is both insane criminal and does not pay his illegal bills.

Right. You're probably not getting him back. It's going down to ticket attorney Jenna Ellis and former mayor and sometimes, you know, physical combat officianto Rudy Giuliani. Trial by combat. Trial by combat. That one. But here's another question I have just like as a pragmatic. And I wrote about this in The Beast about these Republican MAGA Congress people and how they need to. to be expelled. Is there a world in which a Mo Brooks or a Laura Bober who seems like there's definitely some, there's some circumstantial evidence that she may have been involved in Mo Brooks spoke at the thing. Do those guys get expelled? I mean, is there a precedent for that? They ought to be expelled from the body. They ought to be. I think the decision on whether to expel those people. And so interestingly, there is more of a desire in the

Senate to expel Holly and Cruz, then you might think. Oh, well, it's Cruz. I mean, but yes, tell us. If the Senate had a choice between voting for Cruz to be expelled or eaten by wild dogs, right. I mean, they'd cover them in barbecue sauce naked and throw them in a pit with the dogs. That's just, that's just science. But what's your thinking? We're going to see what happens this weekend. If there are massive attacks, again, an armed, an armed rebellion in the streets of Washington, Then Trump gets to be president forever, right? No. No, I'm just kidding.

I'm kidding. I mean, that's what I'm saying. So what, so can you remove them? I mean, like, if you speak at an insurrection, shouldn't you not be in the Congress? Well, look, it is in the Constitution that you may not advocate for an insurrection. Right. Okay. It's very straightforward.

There are a lot of things in the Constitution, however, that are more in the breach than the observance. Right. I think what will happen is. if there is a violent uprising by these magas, if we have begun the, if we have begun the unconventional warfare phase of the manga revolution, they will be expelled for having, for having fomented and encouraged a violent insurrection. They will be expelled. If it's a flop and Joe Biden is sworn in without a lot of violent protest and violent action in the city of D.C., I think, frankly, they survive. Institutional grind is what it is, and it's hard. There's a

among a lot of people in the house that the Maga caucus is roughly 50% of the Republican caucus in the house. There's a sense on their part that they can come together and tell McCarthy, you're out if you don't stick with our people. The other half of the caucus is thinking to McCarthy, you're out if you don't get rid of these fucking idiots. And look, it's not going to change the headcount. You get rid of Bobert, you're going to get another Republican. Right. Well, are you, though, because... Yeah, you get rid of Brooks. You get another Republican. But how does that happen? Because isn't it the governor? Yeah, but that person will be in office for 90, or for a year at most, or two years at most, and then you'll, then the next election cycle will go back to the mean.

Right. I just think there are going to be a lot of consequences here. And there's another thing going on here, people are not paying as much attention to. And that is Kevin McCarthy is about to lose his job. He is in deep ship. He's got a caucus of people who think he is a collaborationist with an authoritarian terrorist. And there are people who think he is an accommodationist siding with his friends George Soros, Hillary Clinton, and Van Jones, who is ready to bring in gay Sharia marriage. The Magas can't get over that Kevin McCarthy kept selling them. I can get Trump to do things. I can get him to help us.

He loves me. And when they're under attack in the Capitol, and he's having to call Jared, and Jared's answering the new phone, who this. You know, it wasn't exactly a sign of his great closeness and power with the president. Right. Will Summer is a reporter at The Daily Beast, and today he's going to tell us about all the wonderful, nice people we've been getting to know since January 6th. So, Will, you've been painting a picture of some of the most colorful characters this country has ever seen to make it a nice way of describing these people.

Can you first tell us about this character, Ali Alexander, that we're all getting to know this week? Sure. So Ali Alexander is this kind of kind of parapetetic tea party character. This guy originated in kind of the tea party movement under the name Ali Ak. I didn't realize that. Yeah, well, part of that is that he had a different name. And so at the time he was known as

Ali Akbar, like it's sort of a key thing with Ali is that he's like kind of very pugnacious and is constantly getting in feuds and he sort of has these grandiose ideas about his own importance. And so he was around the Tea Party movement and this is a guy with a felony charge or two related to like credit card fraud. Yeah, so he kind of just remakes himself

as this kind of like political operative you know, around like 2010, 2011. It's such an amazing story. So what did he start with? Like Astroft rallies? Yeah, so he ran this thing called the National Bloggers Club. I mean, you know, this is back when, you know, blogging

was kind of like the way to refer to a, for, you know, fame and riches. And then he kind of was sort of just around and he's sort of affiliated with people like Jacob Wool and like Laura Lumer. So at the bottom. Yes, exactly. This is not a guy who's, you know, getting invited to like Mitt Romney campaign events or whatever. But it's sort of like a couple notches below even like the Washington Inquirer. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, this is a guy who is really, I mean, he, him and Jacob Woll go to, with Laura Lumer, they go to Minnesota and they're raising money.

videos, yeah. They're acting like, you know, we're going to get murdered in Minnesota and all this stuff. And they're raising all this money for their fundraising. And then it turns out that someone, probably Jacob, basically faked a death threat against himself. And so, you know, they're raising all this money and they're saying, like, we got to fund our massive security team. They're just off camera. You know, meanwhile, all this money's coming in. Because it seems to me, and again, I am not an expert here, and you actually are, that really the person who ran the stop the steal and organized it was Allie, the Stop the Steel rally. That's correct. Shortly after Trump loses the election, all of these kind of right-wing

internet characters, fame balls are kind of like, they coalesce around him. And he says, okay, I'm going to hold all these kind of stop the steel events around the country. And, you know, we'll send a couple of these characters to each one. And, you know, they're going to, you know, get mad outside of the, like, the Maricopa County polling place and stuff like that. But then in the lead up to January 6th, he really takes on the, this kind of really like lead role organizing that rally in particular with people like Alex Jones. And he sort of along the way sort of feuds with other rival organizers of other events and is sort of like, no, I am the face of January 6th. Basically he's talking about violence. I mean, he's saying,

you know, we're going to, this is, it's either Trump gets reelected or we're going to do 1776. He's saying we're talking about taring and feathering people. And then, you know, it kind of really all goes south on that day. He has a lot of really violent tweets. I mean, he got removed. But A lot of his tweets were really violent. Speaking of that rhetoric, I'm, like, kind of shocked about the Q. Ongris women. Which one? Well, that's what I was supposed to say is, like, I can't believe that the rhetoric that's still happening with these conspiracy theorists, has the rhetoric, since Parlor been shut down with the people you keep an eye on, changed? Has it softened? Or are they just still ramping up the crazy on full throttle?

I mean, I think the crazy's still going. I think it's just become a little harder to find. So, yeah, obviously Twitter. Where have they gone? So a lot of them are on Gab now, which kind of the home of mass shooter manifestos. So there's a lot of them there. We have, they're on Telegram, which is another kind of place for extremist groups. We got to get what Malas Schroeder manifesto is in here because.

Yeah, so the guy who did the, or is accused of doing, I believe the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, announced his plans on Gab, which sort of, set gab back a couple years and that's sort of where parlor came in as the you know dan bonjino's an investor in parlor as kind of the the more respectable gab um but of course parlor now has been you know knocked off of it's lost its hosting it's been knocked off the app store they're on gab and they're on telegram which is this sort of russian app um that's that's already kind of a home for a lot of extremists and so i think a lot of um people who are you know more moderate uh qanon people or or stuff like that are now finding themselves on telegram.

So what is telegram? Is it like an app? Is it a social network? Or is it more of a messaging app? It's kind of hard to describe. It has like a lot of different aspects. There's an aspect that is like kind of like a WhatsApp where you would just text somebody. But there's also there's sort of a way that it's sort of like Twitter and that there's

sometimes one person who can post to a group and then people will follow that group. So it's effectively like a Twitter page. But then there are also groups that are sort of like a Facebook group where. anyone can post. And, you know, they just, I mean, a lot of German QAnon Facebook groups, or excuse me, a lot of German telegram groups. And they're just always just like constant, just huge feeds. So, so, you know, it has like a lot of different aspects. So from what I understand, I just wrote a little bit about Congress yesterday. So the sort of most QAnonnic congresswomen are Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bober.

Yes, yes, that's right. So the, yes, the main two Q&ON people are Lauren Bobert and Marjorie Taylor Green. And can you explain to me what's going on there? I'm curious. Sure. So Lauren Bobert is this, you know, her original claim to fame, she's this new Colorado representative. And her original claim to fame was like, she loved guns. And so she, she had this. She's a gun restaurant, right? Right. She has the gun restaurant, shooters, um, the waitresses carry guns. She claimed the inspiration for this was like a guy got murdered in the alley behind her bar. People looked into this and that was just like, weirdly, like just a totally made up story.

And so she was on this Q&on podcast and they said, well, you know, what do you think of QAnon? And she said, you know, my mom's really into Q&on. I hope it's real. And so, of course, Qaeda, right, is the idea that like, you know, Tom Hanks is drinking children's blood and Donald Trump is going to execute all the Democrats. And then so she tried to walk that back and said, well, you know, I don't really support QAnon. And it's like, well, you said you hope it's real. I mean, how much more could you support something? So, yeah, that's kind of her, her, her.

Q&on connection. But Marjorie Taylor Green has is really, until she walked it, I mean, she also supposedly disavowed Q&N in 2018, right? Well, but then she walked that back. So now she's back into it. Oh, she is. Okay. Yeah. So Marjorie Taylor Green is, you know, as they say, is much more red pill. So she's like much more into Q&Obert than Lauren Bobert, as far as I can tell. Well, Bobert, though, seems kind of scarier because she did tweet 1776 on the morning of the Capitol riots. Right. And, you know, she tweeted Pelosi's location after they were supposedly told not to do that. And I think there's a lot of weird stuff going on with her.

Marjorie Taylor Green, I mean, just put out tons of content attacking Muslims, promoting Qaeda. And then it's sort of like after she won her house primary, it sort of seems like some Beltway Republicans were like, hey, you've got to chill out about the QAnon. And now, if you ever say, that lady loves QAnon, they say her staff will call you up and say, That's ridiculous. You know, she's not into QAnon anymore. But in fact, since I believe in December, she posted a very positive article about QAnon and said,

you know, yes, this is, this article is the truth. Like, you know, QAnon people are always lambasted, but they're, you know, this is a very positive portrayal of them. So the idea that she's like really left Qaeda behind, I think is a little of an exaggeration. Wow. The thing I'm always struck by with her is that she's actually quite rich. Yes, that's exactly.

right. And that's sort of, I believe she moved to her district and sort of bought that seat, essentially. Yeah. Just kind of hustled in on the people who were there already and was just kind of like, okay, I'm the Congresswoman now. Yeah. It feels apathetical to the rest of it. So I feel like that we are missing some other amazing characters that you've been introducing us to. Can you give us some of the highlights of some of these wonderful people we've got to know since January 6th? Sure. I mean, of course, my mind jumps to the Q Shaman. Oh, yes, please. I've been familiar with the Qadon Shaman for, I don't know, about a year now. And it was, so I was at the Capitol.

I'm sorry. I mean, it's really, so I was outside. It was like the tear gas was going off and I couldn't get self-service. And then I just, I had no idea what was going on. And I look at my phone and here's the Q's shaman, like sitting in the house or something, just like he's taken over the chamber. And I thought, oh, you know, what is happening? And so, yeah, the Q Shaman, his name is Jake Angelie.

He's this guy. He's kind of a Phoenix QAnon character. who, which, you know, is Arizona is a very, like, powerful, like, nexus of Q&ON activity. Right. And so he's kind of at the center of it. And so he, you know, he dresses in bare skins. Like, he's like a World of Warcraft character. And it's kind of like when a QAnon person gets out of jail, he's there to meet them

with his spear and kind of like they yell together. But, yeah, I mean, he went to the Capitol. And, you know, I think the relevant thing, you know, kind of more broadly is, you know, he told the FBI, you know, I came here because Trump told me to. And, I mean, I think that's the thing, you know, we kind of saw over and over with these people. I saw that he charges $33 and $33 for his shaman duties. I don't know why that struck me, but also, and I think this is sort of an interesting,

I don't know, whatever this is, like the useless information that occupies my brain. He wouldn't eat in jail because he demanded organic food? Yes, yes, that was the big complaint, was that I believe his mother complained that he was kind of starving in the D.C. jail because they didn't have fancy enough food. And then the judge ordered that he be given his organic food. If that isn't white privilege, I don't know, right? I mean, I don't know what the, or is that Q&on privilege? I don't know what that is.

I don't know, y'all. I mean, personally, as like a nerdy Brooklyn guy, that may be much less scared to go to jail, though. Honestly, I think that's the first and last time anyone has ever gotten organic food in jail. You know, it's funny you say that, Molly, I do feel like so much of the reactions, both from the rioters and the people who are there at the protest in general, was this, just kind of this shock that, like, laws would apply to them. You know, afterwards, you know, D.C. was under this 6 p.m. curfew. And there was almost like a mini riot at one of the hotels because they were, you know, they were like, why can't we go out? And like, I want to order DoorDash and all this stuff.

And it's like, well, yeah, you tried to have a coup. Like, you know, there's a curfew. You know, it's pretty simple what happened here. I have to say that video with the girl when she got maced and then she came back and she was like, we're just trying to have a revolution. They amazed me. I was really struck by that, that idea that they just, it was like the idea that you couldn't break into the Capitol. I feel like they didn't realize that you couldn't do it,

that you weren't supposed to. Yeah, I mean, it's really bizarre, like the gentleman who was next to Ashley Babette when she was shot and he, who was just arrested himself yesterday. And he gives this interview that's like, oh, yeah, we were really rampaging through Congress. I mean, we were doing whatever we wanted and, like, on the hunt. And then someone got shot. And, like, that's totally unfair to us because, like, we're American citizens.

I mean, there's just this weird. One thing I heard a lot at the Capitol was this idea that, like, if you pay taxes, you could just break into whatever federal building you feel like. And, like, you know, and because your taxes in an indirect way pay for the Capitol police that, like, they, they're, like, you're their boss. I mean, it really is this just, like, huge amount of entitlement. Yeah. You see, like, in the footage, so many of them, everybody's saying, this is our house. Yeah.

over and over again. Like, it really is insane. I'm curious, Will, though, was there anything like that was really unexpected when you were on the ground there? I mean, I imagine a lot of it, but like, what stuck out to you? Yeah, I mean, you know, beforehand, I guess I was just surprised by, I mean, you know, going into it, I knew that there was going to be a lot of kind of like violent energy and feelings. And just the chatter online had been so specific about we're going to attack the Capitol, we're going to bring zip ties, you know, we're going to take hostages or kill people. And then, but I was really struck by the people I talked to who were not necessarily crazed Q&ON people. Some of them were.

But, but kind of just like people you might think of as your neighbors or your grandparents. And just almost to a person, they were all just like, well, yeah, I mean, if Joe Biden gets his vote certified today, like, you know, there's going to be violence today and we're going to kill people and there's going to be a civil war. And I mean, it's just like, I kept trying to checking myself, am I just getting the craziest people? But I just kept talking to people. And everyone just had this kind of like very, it was like, oh, you know, this was. what we do is we just, it's such a common thing. If, you know, the legislator doesn't do what we want, we just kill them. Obviously, that's not what happens, but these people are just convinced that that's, like, an appropriate thing to do. Yeah, it's kind of amazing. The guy who live-streamed Ashley Babbit,

and he livestreamed, like, all the violence, I was reading this piece in The Times, uh, that maybe saw on the opinion page. Supposedly the guy was actually Black Lives Matter. Right. So that guy supposedly is one of these, like, citizen journalist characters. I'm pretty skeptical. characters. Yeah. I, you know, he has become kind of a flashpoint for anyone looking to prove that, you know, Antipo or Black Lives Matter was behind this. There certainly are these kind of characters who, I mean, as we saw, people love streaming things, even if it's of them committing crimes. And so, so yeah, I mean, that is an interesting character, certainly. And, and, you know, he's on the video saying to the police, like, you know, you better move or this crowd's going to tear you apart. Yeah. I will say, my journalistic ethics do not applied to, you know, doing work for the mob, you know, and so I would not do that myself. But, but yeah, I think there's, you know, I think there's just so many questions that remained about, you know, what happened then.

Do you have the sense? There certainly were a bunch of people who were, you know, we saw that guy who lives, who had that tweet. And now I can't remember his name, who had the tweet where he went into Nancy Pelosi's office and was looking at her email. Oh, Elijah Schaeper. You know who I'm talking about? Yeah, the plays guy.

Yes. Right. And he was like, I'm surrounded by patriots in Nancy Pelosi's office. And then he deleted it and was like, I was just documented. You know, I was there to document. How does that person not get arrested by the FBI? Yeah. I mean, you know, that whole thing is very weird to me. I mean, particularly because he was sending these tweets, as you say, that were like something like, you know, it's the revolution that was, that seemed like very sort of positive tweets about what was going on and sort of from a, you know, sort of like, this is a, us, like kind of we pointed view. You know, it's a great question. I mean, I think Elijah certainly has a better, you know, this is something we're seeing is a lot of people who were documenting it, we're saying, you know, oh, I'm just press

after they get caught. Now, I think Elijah has somewhat better claim to that because, you know, he has acted in this function of the past. But, you know, like, there was this proud boy who got arrested and he was live streaming it. He's like, well, I'm a member of the media. And, you know, all of his videos are just him saying, like, we did it. We took over the Capitol.

You know, and there were a lot of people like that, I think. You know, it's just been fascinating seeing all these characters who kind of think they're not in trouble. I mean, there was a guy who was providing the FBI with video from the Capitol and saying, you know, here's how you catch the podium guy. And they're like, well, you did it too. You know, we're going to arrest you as well. Can you talk about the podium guy because he's become such a sort of figure of those? Yeah, I mean, certainly.

I mean, the podium guy has certainly become, you know, he's carrying, I believe, the speaker's podium. and, you know, he's got this kind of, like, you know, the, like, record scratch. Like, you're probably wondering how we ended up in this situation. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's been interesting seeing, you know, like, kind of the meme people get arrested. The guy who was wearing, like, not the Q shaman, but the judge's son from New York who's wearing, like, the animal health.

And just, I mean, it almost looked like he was, like, tripping on acid and it just, like, come through and was like, where am I? And so certainly those people are getting arrested. I think the next step I think it'll be interesting to see is, you know, the groups that we saw that I think were much more coordinated and seem to have sort of agendas in mind. Yeah, I think it'll be interesting. Do you have a sense? And again, I know this isn't quite your beat, but it feels to me just like from my instincts that we are still getting like three quarters of this story. Are you getting that sense, too?

Oh, I think we'd be lucky if it's three quarters so far. I think there's a lot going on. I mean, I thought about so much weird stuff there. You know, there was like, I did a Twitter thread about this, but like the proud boys had said that they would come in in disguise. And then before the events started, I kind of saw this like rallying group of people I recognized as proud boys. And a lot of them were wearing orange. And they were just kind of very like intense people I saw all around the city had either orange hats or sort of orange like wrist or arm bands. And it seemed like a signal.

And then the Wall Street Journal reports that people wearing orange were kind of this very specific vanguard of. the riot that kind of started things off. And so, you know, additionally, we look at videos and kind of looks like some oath keepers were moving kind of with very, with some very clear intentions through the mob. So, yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's a lot to come out. And of course, you know, that Democratic Congresswoman who claimed that, you know, members of Congress were giving kind of recon advice to the rioters. I mean, I, it's, there's still a lot to be revealed, I think. Thank you so much, well. Okay. All right. Great talking to you both. Before we get into things, we have a fun. little treat. There are so many insane things happening in the world right now, and two

episodes a week just aren't enough to cover it all. So, the new abnormal is going to release a limited run series of bonus interviews over the next few weeks for Beast Inside members only. We'll release a new one each Sunday, but listen carefully. Only Beast inside members will have access to these. So head over to the new abnormal.t thedailybeast.com to become a beast inside member now. That's new abnormal.com. The DailyBeast.com. well as the congressman from California's 15th congressional district and one of the impeachment managers for the impeachment of Donald Trump the second time. And he is going to talk to us about the state of play with some cameos from his small children who are getting a bath. How are you,

how are you feeling? What was that like? It sounds like it was much scarier than we're even really able to know. So Molly, I never in a million years would have. You know, so Molly, I never in a million years would have thought that the capital would be breached. And so as I was sitting on the floor and we were counting the electoral votes, you see the images over at the White House and you think, well, I know they're coming here, but there's no way they're going to get on the capital grounds. And then you see that they're on the capital grounds and you think, well, there's no way they're going to get in. And then you see images that they're inside and you think, well, they'll never get to the chamber. And then you just start hearing the banging on the doors and

the smashing of the glass and officers screaming and scrambling. and then you're told take out a gas mask and get ready to duck. And I still thought there's no way they're coming in here until the House chaplain went up to the podium where the president usually speaks at for the state of the union. And she started offering a prayer. And I thought, okay, they're going to get in here. This is not good. I mean, I can't even imagine. And I don't want you to say anything that's not clear to say,

it feels like we don't know the whole story. I don't feel like I know the whole story. I don't understand how so many people were able to get in. I understand who invited them to the Capitol, who incited them to the Capitol, who urged them to fight for him. That's the president. But I just don't understand how thousands were able to get in,

find their way around, and how we weren't prepared knowing that this wasn't a spontaneous protest. This was an event that had been planned for weeks and why we weren't ready. And whether any members worked, you know, to help them, we certainly should understand. We've heard now three different congressmen sort of hint that that is a possible issue. And we've seen, like, this one congresswoman tweeting the location of the speaker. I mean, how is that getting investigated?

Where does that go? We all want to know that. And we're, you know, hoping an investigation like that takes place, whether it's an congressional investigation or a criminal investigation. but tweeting the location of the speaker when we were asked not to tweet out anything because of our security is wrong. If individuals were given tours the day before so they could understand where the capital was, that would be wrong. But priority for us is to conduct this trial. Hopefully he's removed, hold him accountable, but then understand fully exactly what happened. So talk to me. You're an impeachment manager.

It was a pretty fast impeachment. Can you pressure McConnell to take it sooner? have to wait now? We think there's an imminency here that the president can't be in office for another hour, otherwise lives are at risk. So we want the trial now. But it's a Senate decision and whatever they do, we'll be ready. And it may be the McConnell majority. It may be the Schumer majority, but we've got a case to make and we're ready to make. So you'll do a trial even after he's out of office, right? Yes. No, we're bringing this case to trial. And we think we can convict them. Yeah. You all have the language.

in there that he can't run again? Yeah, we were pretty clear that considering the gravity of the offense, he should never be able to hold any public office again. Jamal Bowman and Cory Bush want some of your colleagues who encourage these people to attack removed from office. And we're talking about people like Mo Brooks who spoke at the rally. What's your take on that? If there are members who were accomplices to this incitement and the violence that took

place, they should be held accountable and they should not hold office. And so I support that. And again, I think we need to investigate and understand. My priority right now is just to have a peaceful transition to power and do what we can as impeachment managers. But yes, that accountability has to take place. It must be a very hard place to work between the Republicans not wearing masks and getting people sick. And then the Republicans refusing to go through the metal detectors. I know this is not all of the members of Congress who are in the GOP, but it must be very contentious. You know, Molly, what I don't understand is we had just gone through this common experience

of being attacked by terrorists. We're lucky to be alive. They almost got into the chamber. And so we're ushered into a secure room. And in that secure room, you would think after that experience, we would all be taking care of each other. But instead, these colleagues refuse to wear their masks. And I'm not just talking about one or two, dozens and their staff members.

And we pleaded with them. The Sergeant of Arms made an announcement a number of times to wear your mask. One of my colleagues, Lisa Blunt, Rochester, one of the just kindest persons in the Congress, went over, handed the masks and said, please put these on. And you saw in the video, she was getting stiff armed. Now, she will point out, and she wants it to be noted, and I will, that there were Republicans who did put it on when she had. So she wasn't completely ineffective in that. regard, but you saw that people didn't put it on, and now we have four positive results of people

who are in the room. Yeah, I mean, and then the other situation with them not wanting to go through the metal detectors. Imagine that. I mean, if you just say that out loud that you have colleagues who refuse to go through a metal detector because they think they need to bring a gun to the workplace. I mean, that that is just, to me, it's just bonkers. And it should have consequences. The speaker announced yesterday that there's going to be a $5,000 fine for anyone who refuses to go through the metal detector or who goes onto the floor without going on through the metal detector because people were doing that yesterday. And also, Molly, these cops have just been through a traumatic experience where they lost a colleague. Many were hospitalized. Who knows the long-term

effects? And these Republicans who pride themselves on backing the blue and claim that we want to erroneously claim, we want to defund the police. This is how they treat the police. And it's I just think you want to talk about courage. You see these whiny old white men complaining that they can't bring their guns onto the house floor. Contrast that with thousands of young guardsmen who are sleeping on concrete floors in the capital because we're under attack. I mean, that's courage. Do you, there are 10 Republicans who voted for this impeachment, which is pretty historic. Actually, like 10 and a half, right?

But how are they going to be okay? Do you sort of feel a camaraderie with them? Do you feel like there's a possibility they might caucus with you guys? Look, it's a unity impeachment. Ten Republicans, including the number three Republican, that's a good case to take over to the Senate. And I think also when you look at the Republicans who did not vote to overturn the election, those are also people, even if they didn't vote for impeachment,

that perhaps we could work with to find accountability, reconciliation, and reforms that are going to be needed. Today, my fuck-that-guy is Lauren Bobert, who is a new congresswoman from Colorado. Earlier in the episode, we talked to Will Somer about this woman, but she has this gun-themed restaurant where she gave everyone food poisoning with these, like, funky sliders that had turned. But she, the reason why she is my fuck-that- guy is because her sort of schick was that she was going to carry a Glock to Congress, even though you're not supposed to have handguns in the district.

And she refused to go through the metal detector. They put metal detectors in after this Capitol riots, and she refused to go through it, and she made a huge stink. And then she also, during the riots, was tweeting the location of the speaker. So if she's not involved, then she's doing a pretty good job of making it look like she's involved. She is my fuck that guy. I will give you one small tweak on that story. Members of Congress are exempt from Washington D.C.'s done laws, but the House rules are not the same as the laws of Washington, D.C.

She's still on the fuck that guy, listen. Right. They can leave them in their office, but they can't bring them to the floor, right? Correct. I'm going to give a fuck that guy to Roger Stone and Ali Alexander, the organizers of the Stop the Steel Rally. The Stop the Steel Rally has now turned out to have been a gigantic organization, apparently the centerpiece of drawing together a terrorist group to attack the capital and a terrorist attack in an attempt as insurgents to overthrow the government of the United States. I look forward to the day when both Mr. Alexander and Mr. Stone are deeply acquainted with federal prison because of this. This was a unsurprising development, but as we start to see the record coming together of how this was organized, I think these guys are going to be in some significant peril, and I can't wait. I have a sub-fuck that guy related to Roger Stone because he's the proud boy's Sugar Daddy or Godfather or Fairy Godfather or whatever the hell you want to call it. A member of the Proh Boys was arrested today named Edward Florea, who has decided he wants to kill Raphael Warnock. And of course, he wisely posted the these threats on the parlor machine. And he was arrested this week.

He's a major leader in the proud boys. And they're working out well. I hope they continue to stand down and stand by. Neil has the police kicked down their doors with their hands at least behind their heads while they're marched off to prison. And with that... On that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking with smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond

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