The Daily Beast Podcast - Mary Trump: Here’s How We Send Donald to Jail

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

The Manhattan District Attorney’s office finally got its hands on Donald Trump’s taxes and it’s only a matter of time before it becomes clear why he spent so much time trying to keep them hidden away. In this episode of The New Abnormal, Mary Trump joins as Molly Jong-Fast’s co-host to talk about the development, a topic that she knows a lot about. (Quick recap: She helped with the New York TImes’ investigation into Trump taxes.) But these taxes are different than the taxes Mary had been involved with, she says. “The taxes I gave them are old and from my grandfather's company. So I think [the new taxes] will be really helpful in establishing patterns where such patterns actually exist,” she explains. But there’s one problem. She doesn’t think Trump is really sweating it down in Mar-a-Lago, mainly because he’s gotten away with so much shit for so long. What makes this time any different? “If he goes down because of his taxes, Al Capone style, I'm all for it,” she says. “And if it's bad enough, which it's going to be, I think his ability to stay out of jail decreases significantly.” It’s not impossible, and there is one thing she says we can keep doing to make it happen. Then! there’s still the Republicans’ MAGA Problem. “It's almost like they have Stockholm syndrome [from Trump] that they gave to themselves,” Molly says, and Mary piles on: “They are an anti-democratic party and they will do anything, including embracing counter-majoritarian tactics, to maintain their power, no matter how illegitimately.” Even if it goes against their voters’ own interest, or well-being. (“Self-interest in the name of being superior,” says Mary.) Then! Rep. Sylvia Rodriguez (D-TX) joins Molly, producer Jesse Cannon and Daily Beast congressional reporter Sam Brodey to share what the situation currently looks like in Texas, how AOC spent a few days visiting her and helping out and why running off to Cancun was never even a thought in her mind—but recruiting Sen. Ted Cruz to volunteer at the food bank with her is. (“His neighborhood is slightly different than mine, and they have a lot of access to resources and it would be helpful.”) Plus, Rep. Val Dennings (D-FL) shares what being in the Capitol during the riots was like from a former law enforcement officer perspective and faces Molly’s very blunt question. Is she going to run for Senate? If you haven't heard, every single week The New Abnormal does a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, the Daily Beast’s membership program. where Sometimes we interview Senators like Cory Booker or the folks who explain our world in media like Jim Acosta or Soledad O’Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner and sometimes its just us discussing the fuckery. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a Beast Inside member where you’ll support The Beast’s fearless journalism. Plus! You’ll also get full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, and welcome to The Daily Beast, The New Abnormal. I'm a left-wing pundit and an editor at large at The Daily Beast. We're here to have fun, sharp conversations with some of the smartest people in media, politics, and science that help make what's happening in the country and the world clearer. Our world has been turned upside down. On the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and figure out how we get our out of it. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure everything doesn't go too far off the rails while we have fun discussions about our world gone mad. And while I take

that duty seriously, ourselves, not so much. On this episode, we're going to be talking to two, count them two congresswomen. First, we'll be speaking to Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia about the response to the storms down in Texas and her time with AOC down there. And then we'll be talking to Val Deming's about a host of other issues, including the attacks on January 6th. But first, we have one of our favorite guests, the author of Too Much and Never Enough, and the former president's niece, Mary Trump. So welcome to the new abnormal, very excited about my co-host today, who is extremely cool, and also I would like to think, I hope she doesn't disagree with this, my friend, Mary

Trump. Of course. Don't disagree with that. That would just be rude. I know, just to put you on the spot. Would you say you're my best? No, I'm just saying. Well, we'll have to see until we actually meet in person.

Exactly. We can define it. That's right. Big day for Sy Vance today. Yeah. I hope he doesn't blow it this time. Exactly. Millions of pages of your uncle's tax returns.

Yeah. Which makes sense. I think part of their strategy all along from the accounting side of things was one to make Donald feel really important about himself that his tax returns were so big, but also just to confuse the issue. When I heard that, it reminded me of that Saturday Night Live sketch, when they just had reams of blank pieces of paper on a table. So, you know, it's going to take well, but I'm sincerely hoping that they have lots of people on it. You have been intimately involved in the taxes, right?

I mean, you were ultimately the source for the tax story. Yeah, I'm actually, I'm really proud of that, but to be honest with you, I didn't even remember I had them. It's entirely down to the brilliant Suzanne Craig. For one, reminding me that I had them, and two, so effectively and tenacious, trying to convince. I mean, it took her months before I did. So it's entirely down to her. And,

you know, I just also want to be clear that whatever taxes we're talking about now have nothing to do with me. Right. But what I do think is important is that the taxes I gave them are old. And from my grandfather's company, so I think that they will be really helpful in establishing patterns where such patterns actually exist. Yeah. Because, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't pretend. Like, I think patterns imply intent. And that's really important here. Oh, yeah. Suzanne Craig actually just won an award. Oh, really? Yeah. She just won, like, the sort of golden globes of journalism, which she's very, you know, impressive, uh, investigation. She is an amazing human being, in addition to being an amazing reporter. Yeah. And so I'm curious to know,

you know him. What do you think is happening right now at Mar-a-Lago? You know, I think that he's not actually obsessing about this. And the reason I think that is twofold. First of all, he's gotten away with this shit forever. Right. So why wouldn't he continue getting away with it? Because he's special. Right.

On the other hand, thanks to the egregious Republican Party, Donald still has a role to play and not just not a supporting role. Yeah. So I think, you know, the CPAC performance, which very, very sadly, I have to listen to, as I'm sure you do. So, and I don't know about you. I'm not getting hazard pay for it. It's a bit much to take. But, you know, he's going to use that as a springboard into something.

And none of it's going to be good. And in addition to the usual grievances about how it was stolen. And so it's this huge plot for him to keep promoting the big lie. And I think he's more focused on that because, again, power for him has always meant impunity. Right. Do you think that there's a chance that, I mean, I've asked this to like every guest for the last week because it just seems impossible to me. But do you think there's a chance that Donald Trump ends up going to jail? Yeah, it's interesting.

somebody asked me that recently as well because clearly that suggests that this is something people really want to see. Yeah, I can't imagine why. I mean, because of course, there's the, of course he should. Right. And the fact that he hasn't in jail decades ago is a serious indictment of the many indictments of our system. Yes.

Will he? What I say is, because who knows? Right. I can always say hopefully. But the way things have gone down. between, you know, his horrific behavior after the election was called for President Biden to the insurrection he directly incited and is responsible for. And then the Republicans' refusal to hold him accountable in any substantive way.

This increases the urgency. Right. The cases in New York and the cases in Georgia. And I'd like to think that Sy Vance and Letitia James in particular, have their eyes on that. So it may be imperfect justice, but if he goes down because of his tax is L. Capone style, I'm all for it. And if it's bad enough, which it's going to be, I think his ability to stay out of Jill decreases significantly. A lot of our listeners seem really skeptical that this will be the thing that gets him because nothing got him for so many years. But my calculation

is, is that after Syvance looked the other way so much with Weinstein and Epstein, that he really has to do this win to have a career rehab. How do you guys feel about that? Yeah, I mean, Jesse, it's a great question. And it's also, I want to remind people that it's not just Epstein and Weinstein. It's Ivanka. Good point. One of the other ones. I can't remember. Okay, that makes sense. It's always junior. I don't know. What was I thinking?

So they allegedly committed fraud by overrepresenting the person. percentage of units sold in the formerly known as Trump's O-O-O-O. And Syvans got paid off to look the other way. And that was just yet another instance when that could have made a difference because I think that was in 2015. You know, it's hard to run for office when your two oldest children are being indicted, have been indicted for fraud in one of your properties, you know? Right.

But I just want to say in terms of he always gets away with it, that's why I've been saying for while now, we just need to keep piling on. The problem is it's like one thing happens, it goes away, another more, a worse thing happens, we forget about the other thing. You know, so if all of these things happen at once, the criminal investigations in New York, the civil investigations in New York, the three extremely serious lawsuits he's facing, all of which are being run by Robbie Kaplan and her firm, and the voter fraud in Georgia, that's, it's really, how is he going to get out of all those things at the same time, right? I mean, do you see it that way, Molly?

Yeah. And the other thing I think that we don't talk about enough is that you'll remember Trump is kind of out of money, or at least he's cash poor, right? He has the money he's raised in the stop the steel staff, but that money can only be used for specific things. Well, or it's gone already because there is literally nobody on the planet who's worth with money than Donald? Yeah, that's not good. I mean, if we think about it just in the most basic terms, if he had just taken all of the $410 million he got from my grandfather plus a couple hundred

million he inherited and just put it in like a CD or something, not that wouldn't do that. He would be worth like $15 billion. Yeah. And he's worth barely, who knows, but it's certainly less than $5 billion. So he just throws good money after bad all the time. And that's why, although I think that E. Jean Carroll's a loss defamation lawsuit is definitely much more important than mine in terms of its significance, my lawsuit, assuming I prevail, serves the benefit of helping to impoverish him even more. Can you explain to our listeners a little bit more about what your lawsuit is in particular?

Sure. Just really quickly, after my grandfather died in 1999, I found out that I had been completely disinherited from his estate, which was worth, well, it was worth, I didn't know. So they wouldn't negotiate with us. So I ended up suing the estate and making the case that my grandfather had been unduly influenced by them because they had Alzheimer's. Turns out, as Suzanne Craig and Russ Boutner helped me find out, that that wasn't the case. I was legitimately disinherited. However, as part of the settlement, they bought me out of a partnership that I inherited for my dad and claimed that my grandfather's estate was worth $30 million.

So I got comparatively insignificant sum of money. And I mean comparatively, turns out the estate was worth a billion dollars. I suggest that my share in a partnership was probably worth more than, you know, whatever they said it was worth. So I'm suing them for fraud. And the good thing is, you know, I have to get over the statute of limitations issue. Hopefully, if I do that, then, you know, at the time, the partnership was probably worth, my share was probably worth tens of millions of dollars. So you also get carried interest over time.

And we're suing for punitive damages because the cruelty of their actions is just sort of, well, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised, should we have to put children in cages. So do we think, if. these criminal lawsuits prevail. Are we scared of the consequences of what this will do to rile up the MAGAS? Yeah, I'm curious to know what you think about that, because you have a sort of much more of an inside view on this. I think that largely depends on how the media portray what's going on, and it largely depends on how Republican leadership responds. So far, the media has done okay with exposing or, you know, calling the big lie what it is.

Then again, on Sunday, every single Sunday show had nothing but Republicans lying about the big lie. Yeah, that was really weird. Yeah, it's really disturbing. And, you know, again, the Republicans continue to think that Donald is somebody that they need. Plus the fact that so many of these people, you know, have authoritarian leanings and want with their version of stability. like homogeneity and no change and stuff like that. So if they feel like the Republicans and Donald are going to do that for them, then it's, we're in for a rough ride.

However, we're prepared now. It's interesting to me that these Republicans, it's almost like they have Stockholm syndrome that they gave to themselves. You know, like they are worried about the mean tweets, but Trump doesn't have Twitter anymore. Yeah, and that's why you could say, in the one hand, they missed a huge opportunity to render him utterly irrelevant, certainly after the election. Ten opportunity. Like, at every point, they've had a chance to be like, you know, we're done with this.

We'll just embrace some other, you know, crappy human who's just slightly less Nazi. And at every time they've been like, oh, but he controls the party. Oh, but, you know, I mean, I just think. I've never quite seen proof of Republican cowardice quite like this. No, and well, it leads me to believe that, you know, certainly after the acquittal, after that armed insurrection incited by the Humble and Holly and Cruz, who shockingly are seditionists still serving in our government and still have to say about how we're governed, I'm beginning to think that it's less cowardice than it's what they want, that they are an anti-democratic party and they will do. do anything, including embracing counter-majoritarian tactics to maintain their power, no matter how illegitimately. Right.

I just am sort of, like, shocked, though, because you would think, I mean, Trump has lost now, he's lost this election, he lost the Senate, he lost the House, right? So clearly, and, you know, and we've seen now that Trumpism doesn't scale, that Trump, that only Trump is able to do Trumpism, that you can't. I mean, maybe a Marjorie Taylor Green in a very red district, but it's very, you know, it really is not a winning formula the way other things are. And yet, the Republican Party, you know, you got Ron Johnson who is in a purple state. Right. And it's up for re-election in two years. If ever this were a time to back off the rhetoric, and he's reading conspiracy theories into the record. So I wonder to Capitol police officers who are talking about how they've had their faces mangled by.

Trump supporters. So I'm curious to know what we think the end game here is. Well, in the context of a democracy, everything you said makes perfect sense. And nothing they do makes any sense. But what do we see happening now? They are not just continuing to embrace Donald. They're continuing to enact policies in terms of voter suppression. And of course, that insane Republican move in Georgia making it impossible for the Attorney General to do the investigation into Donald's voter fraud. So the end game is to make sure that people who would vote against them can't vote. So they don't need it. It doesn't need to scale. It doesn't need to scale at all.

They just need to keep that, I guess, I don't know, 35 percent so riled up. that they seem bigger than they are and quietly make sure the rest of us no longer have a voice. It's just so interesting to me because this 2022 map is like very bad of Republicans, but we have these, but the conventional wisdom is that the party in power loses seat. But again, like, I want to remind all of us, Republican Party is not about, you know, it's not about lower taxes or whatever. about making it hard for people to vote and being against democracy. So the stakes are just incredibly high with every election.

And I just, I can't stop thinking about that fundamentally. Yeah, because it's terrifying. And, you know, we cannot discount the pernicious influence of white supremacy. White supremacy is not an extreme thing. It's not just the KKK and the oathkeepers and whatever those boys call themselves. Right. It's the proud boys. Thank you.

The bad boys. It's incredibly prevalent. Right. Well, it's almost the mainstream of the Republican Party now. It is the mainstream of the Republican Party. I don't think we need to qualify it. Yeah. It just is.

It's so insane because it's like if they cared, I don't know if you know about this, but yesterday, Stephen Miller went and spoke to a bunch of Republicans and this young representative from a heavily Latino district talked to him and got in a fight with him because she is she and she's a Republican, but she's, you know, basically the gist of it was that this incredible racism is going to hurt the Republican Party. I can't imagine why she thought that. They really have like a, you know, if they could just not be so awful, they could actually, I mean, they appeal. I mean, they don't appeal to me. and they don't appeal to you, but they appeal to some people. And yet they're so tied to the white supremacy. It seems like they just can't give it up.

They absolutely can't because they've been convincing their voters for decades to vote against their own self-interest in the name of being superior. You know, it's all positional. It's, you know, not just am I doing well, but am I doing better than. And as long as that's the philosophy, if you want to call it that, then they're stuck. And the only thing they can then do is double, triple, quadruple down on the white supremacy and hatred of the other side and get even more serious than they've been about gerrymandering and voter suppression. It's only got like that. Yeah.

It's just madness. Now, you are by training a person who does mental health, right? Is that fair? Yeah. Clinical psychologist. clinical psychologists. So one of the things we've talked a lot about you and I is this idea that due to the pandemic and the civil unrest and the just, you know, the unpeaceful transfer of power that Americans are in the process of having a terrible mental health crisis. Can we talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. I think there are few things more important right now than preparing ourselves for this. The problem is it's really complicated.

It's complicated because of how we got here. There's a long history of, you know, this country was born in trauma, essentially, that has never been atoned for and it's barely been acknowledged. So the trauma has just continued. And in a related way, our failures to hold powerful white men accountable have also led us to this moment. So, you know, the ground was already softened before COVID came. And because of COVID and the ensuing economic crisis and because of our historical inability to deal with mental health or the lack thereof, we're facing maybe even more challenging period than the last year, which is really saying something.

Yeah. I mean, that is just really scary. What do you think we can do? There's sort of the, what should we do and what can we do? And the difference between those two things is obstructionist Republicans. Just as with COVID, we just need to throw money at this. We need resources. We need, I think there should be a cabinet level position just dealing with this, you know, organizing at the community level in schools, making therapies, various kinds of therapy available. know, across the spectrum. I mean, we're going to be seeing, you know, in my book, I'm not, I'm not really going to be talking about children so much because that is not my area. Let's talk about your book. Yeah, just explain a little more so that we get a. Yeah, I mean, this is basically what my book is about. It's called the reckoning. And it is in part,

you know, reckoning with the past that we've never dealt with that I just mentioned briefly, but also reckoning with the mental health crisis. I mean, we're staring at the barrel of something so vast. I think of it this way. It's as if everybody in the country went to war at the same time. We're all enlisted. Some of us had dust jobs. Some of us saw combat the whole time. We all come back at the same time. All traumatized to varying degrees. Some of us are going to get PTSD or depression or anxiety. We're going to have substance abuse problems. We're going, God knows what's happening in terms of domestic abuse and child abuse. And as soon as people start emerging from this after having been vaccinated or whatever, people are going to try to

pretend that everything is normal. And I think that's when we're going to start seeing an unraveling here. And part of the reason we're not capable of or prepared to deal with it is because, you know, we've always had this weird bifurcation in the West between physical health and mental health. So, and mental health is always something that's been seen as a luxury. And mental illness has in some ways and continues to be in some ways seen as like a failure of willpower or something. I keep thinking about this idea that people are constantly like pretending everything is normal. My life doesn't feel very normal, but right? I mean, I can't go out of the house without like wipes and masks and like every time a kid leaves the house. I'm like, did you wash your hands?

Don't breathe on anyone. You know, don't go in an elevator. And yet, We have these interactions with people where it's like, I don't know why I feel so depressed. I just, you know, it must be the weather, right? So I do feel like we already are in such weird denial. We really are. I think that the fact that we are is only going to make it worse. You cannot treat trauma while people are actively being traumatized. I would also recommend you not write about trauma while you're actively being traumatized.

That's true. I mean, I shouldn't laugh because it's hysterical. It's, it is. One of the things that I've been surprised was I thought that Trump supporters or these people would catch onto it quicker. Like at some point, they'd be like, oh, you know, all these people are dying. Maybe Trump was wrong about coronavirus. But they never had that moment. No, and they never will.

Because there is no moment because he represents them. He doesn't just give them permission to indulge their white supremacy. he champions it and he makes them feel good about it. And in a weird way, following him and denying the virus and not wearing masks, that is another way of they're feeling superior. It's bizarre because they are putting themselves at risk. You know, I've been reading about lynching recently. And it is strangely a similar mechanism because that's all about not just showing your power

but showing the other person's weakness and subservience to you. And, you know, that makes sense in the context of what white supremacists and white supremacy was trying to accomplish because the power was so clearly centered in one race and the vulnerabilities were so clearly centered in the other because of this incredibly racist system we had. This time, though, although it functions the same way, they're literally the victim. too. And that's the part that's deeply confusing. But it shows you

how deeply, deeply it matters to them that they maintain, at least in their own minds, a position of superiority. I mean, while they're dying. Or while their children are dying or their parents. I mean, it is terrifying. It's just nuts.

Yes, that too. Thank you so much. Oh, I love, I love being on with you guys. Sylvia Rodriguez-Garcia is the U.S. representative for Texas 29th Congressional District, which was recently rocked by that cold snap. And today she's going to tell us all about what's happening down there.

Tell us what is Texas like right now? Well, we're still, you know, in recovery, there's still a lot of people hurting. They need desperately water and food. Because, as you know, although the freeze is gone and most power has been restored, a lot, a lot, a lot of pipes busted. And people are searching a lot.

lower for plumbers and electricians and people in the trades to try to repair their homes. But with busted pipes, you still don't have safe drinking water. So that's the biggest need still is just safe drinking water. And, of course, water to bathe, to cook and to do the things that we normally do with water. You didn't have power, but you were still able to do some of your job. Is that right? Yeah, I was, you know, I feel. everybody's pain. I was without power, no electricity, no heating, no Wi-Fi. I mean, I really didn't even have

a cell connection for, I guess it was four days. So I had to resort to going someplace else to keep up with my hearing schedule. I mean, throughout all this, we marked up some bills. We had some hearings. It never occurred to you to go to Cancun? No, not in my dreams. And, you know, for me it was really hard because my house was colder, was about little less than 30 degrees. But I was fortunate, you know, I was able to go somewhere else and that did have power. But then we lost water totally in the city of Houston.

So I had to resort to going to my rain barrel to get water, you know, in a bucket to go down the toilet. that I could be able to flush. But again, I'm fortunate, you know, I have three rain barrels. They were all full. So I had water with which to do that, but many people didn't. And we were under a boil order. So it's been a very difficult time. I went through, I guess, three, four days without a shower. And not until I got here to D.C. yesterday was I able to take a hot shower? because even when the powder was restored, we still didn't have the kind of water pressure we need in our homes to be able to do some things. And for some reason, I also don't have hot water.

And I still don't have hot water. I'm going to have to go home this weekend and see if I can find a plumber and see what the problem is at my house. So it's been that way, and I can tell you, I think you may have heard that my friend from New York, Representative Ocasio-Cortez came down to help us. She visited my district. She raised some money for Texans. And she came down to Texas and not to Concun. And I can tell you, you know, she showed up with a case of water for me that she brought

all the way from New York. She checked it in. She had put it in a bag. And she stood at my house. And I told her before coming in, I said, now, Alex, you know, I don't have water. I said, you know, at the point when she came down, I still was having to do the rainwater thing, but she was the next morning when we woke up, the flushing was working, but she couldn't take a shower. So the two days that she was in my house, she experienced the whole real deal. She too did not have a shower for two days.

How did you get her to come? Because it feels like she brought a lot of attention. Well, you know, through the Congressional Senate Caucus, of course, we're both members. we have a group text. She sent a group text and say, hey, Texas friends, what can I do to help? I want to raise money for charities down there that are working on the ground. So, of course, I immediately jumped on it and text back and I gave her the name of the Houston Food Bank. And she said, great, done.

I'll add it to the list. So then we started texting and she said, well, you know, when I told her about my situation, that I didn't even have any water and I was having to. to do all the bucket and the rink. She says, oh, my God, Sili, that's horrible. She said, I really need to go down there. I said, well, come on down. And she did.

And it happened. I think we talked about it on Thursday. We made the decision on Friday, and we put together a full day of visits. We started at the food bank and worked the food bank, preparing disaster relief boxes for about an hour. Then we went to a food distribution and worked there for about an hour, distributing food and water. Then we went to a second one and another part of my district and again, distributed food

and water. And then after lunch, we visited people's homes. People who had called us about their problems. We knocked on their door and went to visit so that she could see firsthand what was going on with the damage of, you know, busted pipes may not sound like a lot, but if you haven't pipe that bus, anyone in your home, you know, depending on where you are, I mean, some people had their roofs. I mean, their ceilings cave in. Some had a lot of damage to their drywall, a lot of damage to their floors. I mean, it just, it, the damage is very,

we still don't have a full account of just how much damage the storm has done because they're still working on it. FEMA's now on the ground. We still have a shortage of water, and we still have a lot of people needing repairs. But Alex helped us bring a lot of attention to the situation. And we raised over $5 million. And certainly, we've gotten a lot of other calls of offers of assistance with water. And so it truly, truly helped us, especially in my district, because all her visits were in my district, just making sure people saw that people that were hurt the most were, of course, the poor people, the people that are most vulnerable who get hit hard anytime an event like this happens. They have less access

to resources and hopefully we were able to bring more attention to the situation. Ted Cruz said that there was nothing he could have done on the ground and that's why he decided to go to Cancun. That was one of his many things and we've heard that from other Republicans

but it sounds as if that's really could not be less true. Well you know I've always, you know, my first degrees in social work. I'm about helping people. You know, you could sit back and say, well, no, this is the power grid. That's, you know, the governor's fault.

You know, we can't do anything. But, you know, I don't approach things that way. For me, it's about what can I do to help the people in my district? What can I do to make a difference in their lives? And what can I do to make sure that whatever resources are out there are equitable? Because I have seen more and more after every event, even with vaccines, even with testing, the vulnerable populations get left behind. Yes, they're out there, but they're not getting and reaching some of my community.

Because many of these systems are web-based. You've got to sign in at some web page. Well, if you don't have a computer at home or if you don't have Wi-Fi access in your neighborhood, then you're not going to be able to do that. So there's a lot of resources that may be out there, but there's not enough outreach. So I'm about yelling and screaming to make sure that my areas get attention and that no one gets left behind. And that's why Alex particularly liked that I had designated the food bank because our food bank will help anybody, no matter what your immigration status is, no matter what. If you're hungry and you need food, the food bank's going to help you.

And she might make it much so that she added other food banks from the state to her list. Hey, this is Sam Brody, the congressional correspondent. You know, I wanted to quickly ask, you know, President Biden is scheduled to come to your hometown tomorrow. Could you talk a little bit about that? Are you planning to meet with him there? And generally, are you all getting what you need from the administration to respond to this disaster? And, you know, what generally is the communication? been like well i think it's uh you know the i talked to the white house the event happened sunday night

it was i talked to the white house monday night and i talked to speaker velocity call me that very afternoon so no they reached out immediately and the disaster declaration was signed i believe thursday no friday uh fema's on the ground and the the webpage for signing up for help is is already up and running. It was up and running. Even Saturday, as Alex and I were visiting, we would mention, hey, the president just signed everything today.

You can already go to www.wdisaster recovery.com. So, no, they're acting very quickly. But keep in mind that in terms of the power itself, you know, Texas has its own standalone grid. So it makes it, you know, It's the governor's responsibility. It's, it's, it's, it's, they're the ones that have to be held accountable. I believe some of them have already resigned.

But the president has been very, very helpful. And I know tomorrow, uh, I will be doing a food distribution with, um, I believe, with the first lady, uh, in my district. And I will also be visiting with the president sometime in the afternoon. Uh, detail for still kind of, uh, in, in, in, um, in progress. But yes, I will be down there and I will be meeting with him. Has the governor been at all receptive? You know, I haven't really talked to the governor at all. My staff has worked with his staff. And for us, it's about making sure, again, that the resources that come through FEMA, get to

Houston and get to my district. It has been a struggle, quite frankly, working with him on vaccine distribution, that I can imagine that there will be some little hiccups along away on this response. You know, I'm a former state senator. I've had to deal with a governor on many things. And we don't see eye on many things. But I'm hopeful that when it comes to a disaster, we can work together. You know, Congressman, Senator Cruz is from Houston as well.

I mean, do you talk to him? Have you spoken with him in the last week? I mean, I'd imagine you have some, you know, coordination that, you know, often happens in state delegations that I guess should happen at a time like this. I mean, have you spoken with him at all? No, I have not. I have not spoken with him. I may need to invite him to a food distribution site or a water distribution site to help me work.

We sure can use the help. And I know that his neighborhood is slightly different than mine. And they have, you know, a lot of access to resources and it would be helpful. But no, I'm not spoken with him. and I have not spoken with Senator Cornyn. Thank you so much. Thank you. Absolutely. It's been fun. Thank you.

Hey, folks. If you haven't heard, every single week we do a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, the Daily Beast membership program. Sometimes we interview senators like Corey Booker or the folks who explain what's happening behind the scenes in media like Jim Acosta or Soledadad O'Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner. And sometimes we just have friends around to analyze what's happening. happening in the news. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice

by becoming a beast inside member where you'll support the beast fearless journalism, as well as getting full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member, head to new abnormal.com. That's new abnormal.com. That's new abnormal.com. Val Demings is the representative for Florida's 10th congressional district, as well as a former police chief, and she's going to talk to us all about what happened on January 6th from her perspective. And for this interview, we're also joining by the Daily Beast congressional correspondent Sam Brody. So hi, Congresswoman Demings. How are you?

Welcome back. We haven't talked since January 6th. You were at the Capitol. Can you talk to me about that? You know, January 6th, and I say this as someone who served as a 27-year law enforcement officer, January 6th is a day that I will never, ever forget. You know, I had asked to be one of the approximately 72 people who were allowed to be in the house on the house floor at that time because of COVID-19. We were practicing, of course,

social distancing. And I had an opportunity to sit in the house gallery. I was so excited about just watching the peaceful transfer of power, something I had never seen before, certainly as a member of Congress. And we know that the, who we thought were protesters, were having a rally not far away and were outside. But, you know, Mike Pence, the vice president had come in and the proceedings had begun. And we were excited about that because we were watching the electoral votes being officially certified. And what was supposed to be a ceremonial service, basically, turned into a nightmare. And so, you know, with Capitol Police, the sergeant at arms ran in and said,

shortly after the proceedings had started and said that there's been a breach of the Capitol. And we knew, I knew, as a law enforcement officer, with all the layers of security, that the outer perimeter, the inner perimeter had been compromised, that we were no longer in control, which meant we were in trouble. And it was just, it was a horrible day in a day that I shall never, ever forget. Did you go right back to your police training? It's interesting. before the actual breach, or we were notified of the breach, we were sitting there.

And I had a pretty good idea of who the people were, who were outside. And so I remember saying to my colleagues in the gallery, there were about 30 of us. And I leaned over to one who was sitting next to me. And I said, look, I'm just a little uncomfortable sitting here with my back to the doors. I mean, you know how we are. I'm going to get up and stand by the door. so I went back and stood by the door, just so I could have a better vantage point,

a better view of the floor, be in a more ready position. Yeah. Not knowing then that there was going to be a breach, but certainly anticipating that... Something. Whatever happens, we need to be prepared for it. You were a police chief.

Do you never sort of lose that police training? I mean, what I've read is that the people who had military training sort of kicked in. Did you find that, too? That's absolutely correct. I mean, you know, being a law enforcement officer, if you're committed to the job, committed to the oath, and your primary responsibility is to keep people safe and to protect yourself, protect others. And it's something that I was a police officer. It was not something that I did. It was who I was and work that I was very, very proud of. But you think about it. When you go to work, day and I can remember going to work as a law enforcement officer and kind of tidying up my house before I left work because I, you know, I'd always think maybe I don't make it back today. Maybe I'm going to be killed in the line of duty and I don't want the people that I work with to come in and find

my house looking any kind of way. That's kind of grab. I mean, that's a mindset that law enforcement officers go to work with. You know, we know there are a lot of good people who are good law-abiding citizens, but there are a lot of bad people who think every day about how they can valet the rights of other people or break the law or kill good people. And so it is a mindset. Did you think that you were going to die? There was a time, and it was really interesting.

I was there with one of the members who was closest to me, and she was pretty upset. And, you know, as she started to get more and more upset, I mean, look, you know, it was a horrific situation. And I just looked at her and I said, look, God is bigger than this moment. And basically, even if we all die today, what we are trying to accomplish will be accomplished. The people outside cannot stop who we are as a nation. Cannot stop our democracy?

Those votes will be certified. And if not by us, they will be certified by the people who will pick up the mantle and carry on. And so, you know, while I really did think it was interesting, because, you know, on the street, as a cop, you're always thinking is today, it's today the day, but there are times when you have that feeling more so than others. And I did have that feeling that day that I may die today. And I quickly thought about, of course, my family, my husband, my children, my sons, my grandchildren, and just thinking they're going to be okay. Because I hope I've planned. enough good seeds in them, regardless of what happens to me today, they're going to be okay. But yes, I have no doubt in my mind, the people who were chanting hang Mike Pence were going to hang Mike Pence had they had an opportunity. I have no doubt, the people who voices we heard looking for the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi, were going to kill her that day. The fact that many of them carried multiple sets of flex cuffs, that's what we used to carry as law enforcement

officers when we anticipated making mass numbers of arrest. I had no doubt that they were planning on basically apprehending, if you will, many members of Congress and doing who knows what. And so I know that some had thousands of rounds of ammunition. And so, yeah, I really believe that I could have died that day. But the work that we were doing, what I try to stand for as a public servant, I had the utmost sense of peace and calm that that work would continue. Did you get to text her husband? Well, you know, it was funny when we first, when they said there's been a breach and they told us to Don or gas masks and get on the floor. And I'm thinking, no, this is what I usually tell people to do.

And so it was just the strangest of feelings being in that position. But I tried to call him and, you know, he's the mayor here in the county. He didn't answer the phone. And so when he tried to call me back, I was actually down on the floor on my hands and knee basically on the floor. And I couldn't answer the phone because, you know, Capitol Police were they had pushed all kinds of furniture in front of the door and were basically saying, be quiet, get down. And he was blowing up my phone, as you can't imagine. Yeah. And I know what it was like for him as a former law enforcement officer as well.

Those minutes were just horrible for him. Yeah. When I finally did get to talk to him, he was, I got to witness an interview that he had done. And, you know, I know him. And I know how upset and worried and scared he was because, you know, just think about it. If these people are bold enough to break into the U.S. capital, anything else is fair game. So let's talk about the other. There are members of Congress that you serve with who were involved.

I mean, like Mo Brooks, who spoke at the rally. And then there are other members who may have given tours, and there's a lot of questions about that. Where are you with this? And, like, what is Congress going to do? And how is it to serve with people where you don't totally know what side they're on? It is just like, and I have to go back to being a law enforcement officer, right? We've taken an oath, and we are supposed to be the good guys.

And so when an officer forgets that, that. That's a tragedy. That's a tragedy when an officer forgets that he or she is supposed to be the good guy. And so being in Congress, and we think historically about the challenges and struggles that this country has gone through, but were it not for good men and women who took their oaths very seriously, we would not have made the great strides that we have. Look, I had a problem and still trying to figure out what to do with the 140 members of the House. House who voted to overturn the election. Yeah. Can those people be censured? I mean, what can happen there?

I've said it publicly before that these are people, some of them that I know who served in the military, they've served as law enforcement. There are people who, the first oath that they took was not in the House of Representatives. And they know better. And so I'm still trying to figure out what's the, you know, to basically vote to overturn an election, basically is a vote to sabotage our democracy. And I'm not sure a censure. I'm not sure. I need to figure that out,

and I'm still trying to figure it out in my mind and in my heart. For the people, though, who actually spoke and helped to incite the attack on the Capitol, and you've named one of them Mo Brooks, but he wasn't the only one, who basically very clearly, look, you know, don't ask us to not believe or, you know, or lying eyes and line ears, basically.

You know, don't believe your lying eyes and line ears. We know what we saw and we know what we heard. And it's insulting to ask us to do otherwise. They help to incite the attack against the Capitol. And you're absolutely correct. We've heard the stories about some members who were actually giving tours, basically helping to show the landscape, the layout of the U.S. Capitol. So when the rioters came, they would know exactly where to go, look, members of Congress lost in the Capitol.

I don't know my way around. I'm much better than I was, but I don't fully know my way around. And there are some places, some officers that are unmarked, they're in out-of-the-way places. And in order to get there, you need to know where you're going. And clearly, many of the attackers navigated the Capitol like they knew where they were going. And so those members of Congress, which is so disgraceful. I mean, the people on the outside were bad enough, but the members of Congress who actually helped to incite the attack

to actually help the rioters find members and do Lord knows what, or attempt to find members and do Lord knows what, they need to be held accountable. And if they broke the law that did. And if they participated in that way, then they broke the law and they did. need to be held accountable. Yeah. So one of the things we're very concerned about right now is that seems that there's going to be a lot of legislation coming through, particularly at the South, for

restricting voter rights. It seems like this is really what's getting the Republicans excited. I know you guys have on your docket a voting rights bill that's going to come through, but it seems like a lot of people are saying that we need more than just legislation in Congress. Can you talk a little about what you see with this? Well, let me say this. When you're, when no one's buying your agenda, you cheat, right? Yeah. And so that's what the Republicans are doing. Instead of offering an agenda that works for the American people,

that I think the American people would follow during these tough times, if the agenda worked for them, they have chosen to, again, go back to their old trick of denying people the right to vote. Look, you know our history in this country, which is shameful and disgraceful. We know the Voting Rights Act of 1965 had certain provisions that held states accountable for trying to sabotage, if you will,

the voting rights of Americans. And so we know that the voting right was gutted basically in 2014 by the Shelby v. Holder decisions where those states were no longer held accountable. But we know now more than ever that there are still bad actors out there. And so we are really though excited. I know, look,

no piece of legislation during these tough times go far enough. But we are excited about at least restoring the provisions that were gutted from the Voting Rights Act that will hold bad actors accountable and basically require that those bad actors

have to seek, in any state, that a bad actor has to seek permission from the federal government before making any changes to voting laws. I think that's a really good start. And you know, we have renamed that piece of legislation after Congressman John Lewis. And we know the significant role that he has played. And so we're excited about that. Does it go far enough? Probably not. We know right here in my home state of Florida,

voters passed Amendment 4 in 2018. Overwhelmingly, about 63% of the voters in this state said that persons convicted felons who had paid their dues deserved to have the right to vote. And yet, state legislature, along with the governor, has come up with basically what I call the Martin Day poll tax that says, oh, no, if you owe any fees, then you have to pay those fees before you're allowed to vote. We know the obstacles that they would create for individuals

who are just trying to rebuild their lives after being incarcerated. And so we're trying to work here, in Florida, but it's just another example of what we're trying to prevent of states and individuals who are not good players. And so we're excited about the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. This is an issue, of course, that we will stay on top of the leadership in the House, the leadership now in the Senate, and others. There are many numerous groups that support the legislation that we have. Is there more work to be done, of course, but I think we're off to a good start. Are you going to run for governor of Florida.

Sorry. Wow. That's just like, tell me about voting rights. Let me say this. I have received a tremendous amount of phone calls, Texas, emails from individuals who would like me to do just that

or to consider statewide, running for statewide office in general. You know, we don't have a Democratic senator in this state and never had a woman. Senator in the state, our governor for that fact. You know, I, as a career public servant, I've always wanted to go where the need was greatest and go where I feel I can make the greatest impact for people who depend on elected officials

to do the right thing for them and their families. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. But what I do know is that there is a lot of work to do. Florida, and I can say this, Florida deserves better. and we'll see what happens. Thank you, Congresswoman Deming. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you again.

Thank you. It's always great to have you. Thank you. Hi, Jesse Cannon. Hi there. So they're in just the most shocking news. Somehow your man always comes back to bring us. I mean, I've enjoyed that we've been giving some new people the spotlight recently,

but it's nice to have one of the kings back in the arena. Congressman COVID. So what did your man Louis Gomer do this time? You know what's interesting to me about him is because there are so many new Republican congresspeople like Lauren Beaupert and Marjorie Taylor Green, you would think that Louis would sort of go the way of a Mo Brooks where, you know, dumb old white guy not getting much play because he's just so. boring, but in fact, he still manages to hit it out of the park with being the stupidest congressman

every time. So what did he do? He said that, and it's a little bit of a play on the Ron Johnson here, he said that Democrats are responsible for the armed insurrection. Because, wait, wait, wait, gets better because of the Russia hoax. Ah, yes. You know, when we're not both sizing, we have to always be equating two things that are nowhere near the same magnitude. That's really the game here. I would like to read this lead from Talking Points Memo, of which I am a member. In a classically convoluted logical journey, Representative Louis Gomer went from claiming an insurrection had ties to Antifa to blaming Democrats for the January 6th attack wholesale, a cool five minutes on Wednesday. So you gotta love it. Democrats have never come to understand

that one of the most insightful things that they do is not only to misrepresent things, as they did with the Russia hoax, but then turn around and try to silence Republicans or opposing views. Get him off the internet, he says. The thing I love about him is that he never makes much sense. When you seal up a pressure cooker and continue to turn it, test it. it, heat it. It's not going to turn out well. I mean, I guess. I don't know what any of those words mean. Let's just be glad he's not talking about asparagus skin. There's still time. So bye fuck that guy. And I'm so glad I get to finally talk about my favorite person who begins to resemble the Martian from Mars attacks more and more with each television appearance is your

fave, Santa Monica Gerbil, Stephen Miller, who literally had the nerve. after being the guy who we have learned gave no fucks about putting kids in cages and literally thought it was a good tactic to deter immigration called the Joe Biden's immigration policy cruel and inhumane on a panel on Fox News last night. Yeah, I would think that cruel and inhumane would make him want it. One might even think it may be his kink, in fact, but I don't want to speculate too far into that horrifying marriage.

The thing that I'm always struck by with Santa Monica Gurbals is there was that one time he did meet the press where he had all this hair in a can sprayed on his bald head. And people made fun of him so much. But I actually think like, I think it's time to start experimenting again with the hair in a can. You know, just as in Mars attacks, the aliens had disguises at times, you know, he's got to have his disguise to cover up that that giant brain of his. I can't believe that that guy's still around and that Republicans are trying to learn from him. I mean, if there ever were a proven election killer, it's this weird punitive, hostile, horrible, anti-human sentiment that he has. You're making a great point here in that we keep seeing more things that they should have turned against since Trump left. And the fact that he was speaking to the Republican caucus yesterday is a really.

is a really bad sign of what they're leaning into. Yeah, they've definitely, I mean, I think we just keep seeing again and again that Republicans have absolutely learned the worst possible lessons from Trump. And by lessons, I mean, they haven't learned anything. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science. We'll help us understand what's happening to our country and the world.

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