The Daily Beast Podcast - Maye Musk’s Secrets to Having (and Affording) More Babies

Episode Date: December 22, 2024

Maye Musk proves the bad apple doesn’t fall far from the tree with some tone deaf advice on how Americans can afford to have more children to avoid population collapse. Plus! In a special podcast crossover, The Last Laugh podcast host Matt Wilstein reviews a year of high highs and low lows in political comedy and its future under a new Trump administration. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Welcome back to another bonus episode of The New Abnormal, and we thank you so much for being here.

Today is our annual crossover with The Last Laugh podcast, and we have host Matt Wilstein here to talk about the year in comedy and politics, from Joe Rogan's interview with Donald Trump to Kamala Harris on S&L and to look at the future of political comedy. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready for the last clips of the year? Clips. Are you guys thankful that these are the last clips of the year? Yes. That's what I thought. Well, not the best crop yet again.

Here we have May Musk, who some people may know as Yvonne's mommy, and she's talking about how people should have kids, even though they can't afford it. Recently getting a lot of attention because there was a comedian online who said, listen, I get it. People don't want to have, they're talking about the birth rate. which your son talks a lot about it declining and the problems for humanity with that.

And you said to his response about it being too expensive to have kids, you said, that's not the way to think about this. Explain. Well, you know, when I had my children, we were in a two-bedroom, small apartment overlooking a garage. And then the next year, I have a second child, we had an apartment with a view. And then by the third child, we could get a two-bedroom house.

And you just, you know, as you move on, you start doing better and better. But people, you know, you don't have to go to the movies. You don't have to go out for dinner. You can just spend time with you all the most wonderful gifts you can ever have. Exactly. What say you, my fellow childless podcasters? What? So she's saying that.

like you should suffer and that miraculously over the course of having multiple children you'll make more money? That's what I took from it. Oh, okay. So she is a magician as well as a moron. Is that what she's offering?

I can see there being a magician at the Musk family. It's giving Joe Bluth every day. I mean, look, you two can buy an emerald mine and exploit a whole bunch of people and end up with more money. So you can do that and have children, is what she's saying.

You know, you can multitask, I think. Now I understand. She said this on Fox News, I would assume. Where else? I mean, they have just turned her into some sort of folk hero for their audience. And it's just, it is just wild. I love this as they, her son prepares to cut the welfare state down that helps kids eat. But, you know, you'll pull yourself up, the bootstraps of that thriving economy they're about to create. Yeah. Fun times. All right.

Well, it gets worse. Here we have Clout Goblin, Valentina Gomez, who you may remember for running for Missouri Secretary of State, and she's now running for Congress in not Missouri, Texas. For Congress in Texas, and I'm taking down a rhino and a dinosaur once and for all. Because Congress is full of Brooks and Speaker Johnson, who is just a little man with no boss that funds Ukraine

and betrays the American people every time. chance he gets and then Crenshaw, who is only good at betraying his fellow Navy SEALs. I'm 25 with an MBA, fluent in multiple languages, former NCAA Division I swimmer, and with many more accolades to my name. But here's the only reason why you should vote for me, because I don't give a fuck what all those bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. think about me. I'm coming to Texas to speak the truth, cook the crooks, and save the children. Buckle off, Texas, because this ain't my Chris Bodio. Is that a choir behind her?

Yeah, and I should say it ends with the scene of her carrying an AR-15 wearing pit vipers and in front of a cyber truck. You're joking, right? I also regret to inform that this was not directed by the director of Idiocracy and President Camacho

did not write that speech for her. Oh. So I'm torn on this because on the one hand I want to just say she's a nobody trying to make a name for herself. She's not going to be in Congress. And then I look at the world. And I realize how charmingly naive I am.

Yeah. I think that's accurate. Then he looked at the world and he realized she could be Secretary of State. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So there it is. Okay. You know, if everything goes belly up, which it is, you know, let's not kid ourselves.

We could rebrand guys. And, you know, we start filming this in front of a cyber truck. You know. Who's buying it? Yeah, you know, I don't know. The new new abnormal. Well, I do have good news. If this carpetbagging doesn't work out,

she's changed her Twitter handle to Valentina for USA so that she's able to pick a different district to run in. Oh. She can't beat Crenshaw. So I have a feeling this is not the last week. We will be seeing a Valentina. I think she's going to be a lot like Laurel Lumer, where she leads many, many lives of weirdness in our political future, unfortunately.

I hope she runs for office in all 50 states. American Dream, is it not? It really is. Okay, so we are taping this before we see where the government shutdown takes us, but I think this discussion is telling anyway, no matter which way it shakes out. Speaker Johnson, he stopped by the curvy couch of stupid known as Fox and Friends. Well, let's just watch how things go. New news, you do not know.

You know who also does not like this? Elon Musk, the world's richest man, just tweeted, this bill should not pass. The only way you're going to be able to pass it now, Mr. Speaker, is with Democrats. If you could, what's your message to Elon Musk? Well, I was communicating with Elon last night. Elon and Vivek and I are on a text chain together. And I was explaining to them the background of this. And Vivek and I talked last night about almost midnight.

And he said, look, I get it. He said, we understand you're in an impossible position. Everybody knows that. Remember, guys, we still have just a razor-thin margin of Republicans. So any bill has to have Democrat votes. They understand the situation. They said, it's not directed to you, Mr. Speaker, but we don't like the spending.

And I said, guess what, fellas, I don't either. We got to get this done because here's the key. By doing this, we are clearing the decks, and we are setting up for Trump to come in, roaring back with the America First Agenda. That's what we're going to run with gusto beginning January 3rd. What a fucking loser. Mm-hmm.

And can you imagine that fucking text chain? Oh, God. The Vec, Elon, and oh, my God. The worst memes. Listen, I'll be fair here. I would love for Elon to say, so what masturbation tracker do you use, Mr. Johnson? I need to get a new one.

Oh, dear. Oh, my God. He is flaccid. Yeah. That's what I'm going to say. Two limp gavels in a row. Mm-hmm. I do have to, though, find it absolutely hilarious that they're like, yeah, buddy, we know you're in a tough bind because your donors, you know, since, you know, his job is a lot of fundraising, really don't want our credit downgraded and don't want this government shutdown for what it all do, the stock market.

But, you know, we got to sound cool in front of our friends on Twitter. But also just like what loser behavior for him to be the one to say like, oh, no, they told me they know it's not my fault, you know. Like if they want to come out and say that and say, hey, we're not mad at, you know, this isn't about Mike Johnson. Fine, whatever. But for him to come out and that's his defense is that, oh, no, in a text chain, they told me that, you know, it's like, oh, my God. He's a clown. He's a clown. Just pathetic.

Well, I'm going to round us out with something a little bit more fun. Did you guys notice some drones flying over New Jersey this week? No, because thank God I live in Brooklyn. But go ahead. Well, many people were very concerned about some drones flying over New Jersey that were apparently a part of a government contract that allowed them to experiment with this. But because this is the United States of magical thinking, a lot of very odd theories developed.

So Rep Timberchette stopped by to talk to Ben, Benny Johnson about it. Let's listen. The drones, there's a reason you don't see them flying over Tennessee, at least where I live, because everybody's got a deadgum 12-gauge, brother. And I hear they taste a whole heck of a lot like chicken. So we'd be dropping those things, first of all. Second of all, I think the Chinese are involved with this.

Here's my reasoning. Every part of the componentry, heck, that little stupid camera that's on top of my computer, that computer, it all has Chinese componentry. You and I've talked about this in the past, and this was leaked. I think it was in the Wall Street Journal or something, but the Chinese, we think, have the capabilities of possibly even turning off some of our jets if we were to get into a feud with them because they have the, you know, the componentry, the, the, in our cell phones and everything else, they've created the chips.

That's why Trump wants to build those things in this country. It's, yeah, for profit and also for security of our own that gun nation. Mm-hmm. Every one of them is stupider than the one before. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Republicans, but I also mean the clips, Jesse. I was trying to figure out which one you meant.

Yeah, no, both. Both. Both. Absolutely both. 20 years ago, these people were mimeograpping pamphlets in their basement and try to hand them out to people on the streets. And people were telling them to fuck off. And now they're in the halls of them.

Congress. It's unbelievable. It's absolutely unbelievable. I wonder what the tinfoil budget is for Republicans. It's got to be high because all of those hats. They're fucking nuts. I don't know what to say. But the Chinese live rent-free in their minds. Like the Chinese are so busy with all of their takeovers that they are doing. According to Republicans, it's, you know, okay. I don't know. And now they're put it in the minds of the Supreme Court as, they have to weigh the TikTok band. I just can't wait for those amazing legal minds to weigh in very soon. They don't have to weigh in.

They just have to wait for Donald Trump or Elon must tell them what to do. It's a beautiful thing when you don't have to think. Do you know what I'm saying? You just do what you're told. What a wonderful world. Well, to proud us off, I figured we'd just sing some Christmas carols. You guys ready? Yeah.

All right. No one wants that. Happy holidays, everyone. Thank you for listening to the new abnormal. Thank you. Andy. Happy holidays, folks. Thank you.

I was trying to figure out if it was okay yet to say Merry Christmas, but I'm still nervous about it. I need to wait until after the inauguration, so I'm just going to say, happy holidays. Okay. Happy holidays. Hey, Andy. Jesse, how's it going? Psych to see you. Hey, Matt.

How is everything over in fellow podcast land? Oh, it's grand. We're getting towards the end of the year, so I'm really cramming it in now. We've got a lot of good episodes coming up. Excellent. Yeah. I'm glad that we're getting to do this, our annual crossover extravaganza once again to talk about the year in comedy and politics and how they cross over. Yeah, always fun. And for some reason, it feels particularly, I don't know if the word is important, but it feels particularly, well, I'll just say important this year. Yeah, I mean, I was sort of trying to think about this year and how to frame it, how to talk about it. And to me, this was the year that comedy podcasters and shitty comedians basically won Trump a second term. So that was important, I guess, could be a word or significant or terrible.

I don't know. There are a lot of words that that could go along with that. Yeah, I don't think I would go that far. But I do think that there was absolutely an element there. of, and we can go through the various podcast that Trump appeared on, or just that in general, the various generally shitty comedian podcasts that were very, very, well, that were very, pro-Trump. And yeah, there was a, there was a very big sense that Kamala Harris didn't have something

similar. I mean, she did call her daddy. Yes. That didn't seem to move the needle. No, and that's really the only one she did. And look, I don't think, I sort of, maybe this is just old man shaking fist at cloud. But even though I am a podcast host, I find it very hard to believe that the podcasts were that influential. I know, right? But the podcast world did not hurt Mr. Trump. No, and I mean, and they did him a lot of favors. I, too, was very skeptical at the beginning that this was a good strategy for Trump. I mean, the first one that I, remember him going on that I was like, huh, was Theo Vaughn's podcast? Theo Vaughn, you know, is a comedian. He's a more known as a podcaster than a comedian at this point, sort of like Joe Rogan. He's sort of like a, you know, Joe Rogan disciple. And I was like, that's interesting. Trump is

going on Theo Vaughn's podcast. But then seeing how it was received and this one clip that really went viral of them talking about cocaine, which was strange and bizarre. And it did show a different side of Trump than I think we're used to seeing. And he felt like weirdly comfortable in this bro podcast environment. Is cocaine a stronger up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're way up with cocaine more than anything else you can think of. Cocaine will turn you into a damn owl, homie.

You know what I'm saying? You'll be out on your own porch, you know. You'll be your own street lamp. that's sort of when I was like, there might be something going on here that will have an impact on this election in a way that I would not have expected. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, so there was Theo Vand, and there was, I guess, Andrew Schultz. And there was also Joe Rogan himself. Yeah, that was only like a, it was only, it was in the very final stretch that he actually did. Rogan, it was like the last week before the election. Days. Yeah, days. Yeah. That's absolutely, yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely right. But you know what?

He was getting his word out and he was getting his word out to people that appeal to young men. Yeah. And I mean, it was that thing. It was so strange. The Andrew Scholl's one was one that I sort of engaged with more than others because I'm interested in him. And I think he did this interview with Trump where half the time it kind of felt like he was making fun of Trump and laughing at him. And there were these moments that sort of went around the, you know, what is now the blue sky universe, which probably wasn't then, but where, you know, the left-leaning

folks were seeing these clips of like, oh, Andrew Schultz embarrasses Trump with, you know, these questions. I have a hard time doing it to them because I'm basically, you know, I'm basically a truthful person, but frankly, no, but frankly, no, but frankly. Sort of the other part of the interview was him praising Trump and really did seem like, he was on Trump's side. So it was kind of like you could make, you could see it however you wanted to. If you didn't sit down and listen to the whole thing or watch the whole thing, you could get these clips that were directed to you that told you what you wanted to hear. But I think the people that it impacted obviously more than anyone else are these, you know, these young men who listen to it and felt like they could relate to Trump in a way that maybe they, they wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah. And that's the thing that you sort of hit on there. It's the whole clips thing. And again, look, Theo Vaughn and Andrew Schultz both have fairly healthy audiences that, do watch or listen to entire episodes. But I think it's more, it's the clips thing that really make the difference here

because you end up with a lot of people who don't normally listen to those particular podcasts or maybe podcasts in general that saw, as you said, they saw clips and they probably saw clips tailored to what they would like. And look, that is sort of the, you know, obviously that's the, media world that we live in now is clips. I mean, there's, hell, there's a lot of, you know, we'll talk a little later about late night shows. I don't really watch late night shows anymore, but I do, you know, I see a fair number of clips, whether it's on TikTok or YouTube or, or like you say, on blue sky now. And I really do think that just, you know, him sitting down with

these guys for an hour or whatever it is, it's not even that hour so much that becomes so powerful. it's the fact that these clips get widely disseminated. And I really don't actually remember seeing all that many clips of the Kamala Harris Call Her Daddy show. I saw a few, but it definitely did not have the same traction. I think that also had to do with the content. Like, it was so, I don't know, it's hard to know whether it was her team that pushed this or, you know, Alex Cooper from Call Her Daddy, who decided to make it this very, like,

professional. She was basically pretending to be the host of Meet the Press instead of doing what she normally does. and it produced no news, nothing that interesting that we hadn't heard from Kamala Harris before. So, like, at that point, what was the point of her going on the podcast? If she's going to go on a, you know, basically like female empowerment, like sex positive podcast, you would hope that, like, she would say something that would get attention, but she didn't. They kept it very much on the issues.

And it felt like basically any other interview that she did with maybe a little bit more personal touches or biography, but nothing, you know, that stood out. want to pile on to what both of you are saying that. One of the more interesting things, and Zuck, Bezos, and Musk actually pioneered this is that they started to go on all these podcasts where you never get any pushback. You never get anything. The Lex Friedmans of the world, the Rogans, where you're never going to get any question that is going to be the least bit out of your ballpark. But what was funny is Kamala actually, I think, diverted. She did subway takes. Karim Rama went on how long gone and said that he actually had a lot of umbrage with

the suggestions that her staff made for what she was going to say because they're like, this is safe and these are not the hot takes that I'm doing for those who are not familiar with subway takes. The idea is you're supposed to say a very spicy hot take that will be very, very controversial on it. And hers was pretty middle of the road. But the other thing is, is they feared these interviews that would ever generate any sort of clip whatsoever because it is the lack of pushback thing. And that is the media strategy that a lot of these people are using now and really has been

the tech giants, it's like two to three years now, that's suck. And Bezos have just gone, oh, I'll do an interview with this person who's barely equipped to do an interview. Yeah, I think her decisions of what interviews to do or not do have been so interesting as they, you know, there was so much debate over whether she was going to go on Rogan, was she going to go travel and spend three hours in his studio in Austin versus, you know, what the campaign wanted him to come to her and only do one hour, which wouldn't really have been his show. I don't know where you guys stand. Like, I don't really know that her going to Austin and spending three hours on Joe Rogan's podcast would have made any difference. I don't know.

I mean, I think with that length, I think probably would have, she would have ended up having to say something different than she was saying in other interviews because that's just the nature of the format. But yeah, what do you guys think? Because it's like these decisions that she made that people pour over, you know, they got a lot of attention at the time, it's hard to see how they would have actually changed anything. I don't know that they would have changed anything, but I think the thing is you go on Joe Rogan or something like that. And to me, it's not even so much about what you say. It's the fact that it can humanize you and it can make you relatable to an audience that maybe doesn't find you relatable because they've only seen you in heavily scripted moments. That's what Donald

Trump did. And that's why I think. talking to Theo Vaughn and Andrew Schultz and Rogan and other people like that, it's not even so much. And Trump knows this because he can, you know, Trump knows. I mean, look, he's sort of unique in that he literally can say whatever shit just pops into his brain and it doesn't hurt him somehow. But he also knows that it's about image and it's about what he is projecting. And, you know, you hear people all the time say, well, he fights for me about a guy who clearly only fights. for himself and his ultra-rich friends. But that's the image he puts across.

And the place I think that she was ill-served by the same Democratic strategists who have been ill-serving us for decades was that they were very afraid of her going off script. Yes, it's that fear, that position of fear that that was a huge part of it. Like thinking about, you know, that they were, I guess, afraid she was going to make a gaffe or say something that would create a news cycle, you know, but then I was like I was watching portions. I didn't watch the whole thing of J.D. Vance on Rogan in that final week before the election. He made like, what, 12, 15 statements on that show that could either be described as gaffs or really off-putting things that would alienate a lot of voters. It didn't matter at all.

Like, it didn't affect anything. So like, yeah, I think that operating out of that position of fear was probably the biggest mistake that they made in that campaign because if they had just not worried about that stuff. We might have seen a totally different side of the candidate and that things could have, one interview is not going to make the difference, but a totally different attitude towards the campaign could have. To me, it was very similar to the way Tim Walls approached his debate with J.D. Vance. And by not attacking him or by pointing out just how weird he was as the love fest. It became like, you know, I think J.D. Vance and I could sit down and have a that. That was infuriating. Yeah. And I think it's very much the same thing. They were afraid to put

themselves out there and take the chance of saying something that might anger or piss off one person. But on the other hand, you might get a hundred people who are like, thank God, someone actually is talking like a human being. And I really think that that's where the podcast world, the comedy podcast world, helped Trump a lot. Yeah. Before we get to the sort of, you know, the late night TV part of the conversations, which we always love to talk about. I do think we have to at least mention the other big comedy moment in that final stretch before the election, which was Tony Hinchcliffe. at MSG, which was like this other moment that you could see totally differently based on your political lens.

A lot going on. Like, I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah. I think it's called Puerto Rico. Okay. All right. Okay.

We're getting there. Again, normally I don't follow the national anthem, everybody. I think I would say it's safe to say we were watching that and thinking, oh my God, he just did something that could take down Trump's whole campaign. And that was sort of the narrative. But that's not at all how it was received, even by the Puerto Rican community, apparently. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. I agree with the Puerto Rican community thing. I mean, you know, I know the exit poll showed one thing, but the full-on result showed that the Puerto Rican community did overwhelmingly vote for Kamala Harris. I don't know that they wouldn't have any way.

So I don't know that what Hinchcliffe said hurt Trump. But you're absolutely right. Like, you know, there was a lot of conversation around did a comedian that most people have never heard of just sink the Trump campaign. As it turned out, it was like not even the slightest bit. Yeah, and of course, now he's on his like gloating tour. I don't know if you've seen any of that, but he's, he's been out there making jokes about it. And he was like very quiet in the days immediately following and now waited until Trump won to come out and say, yep, I did it. I helped him win now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, thinking about some of the other choices, that Kamala made, the one thing that she did that I guess could be considered a risk,

although it was pretty safe territory was going on SNL, where she appeared with Maya Rudolph, you know, side by side and across the mirror, which is a classic SNL trope. You Kamala. It is nice to see you Kamala. And I'm just here to remind you, you got this. Because you can do something your opponent cannot do. You can open doors.

She did they're like to a garbage truck, right? I don't really laugh like that, do I? A little bit. Did you catch that, Andy, at the time, and did you think that was going to have any effect one way or the other? I caught it, and as we were talking about earlier, I saw clips. You know, I'm not a big SNL guy, but I did obviously watch that clip. And look, I thought she did a good job with it.

I don't think it was even the slightest bit risky. I mean, again, it was scripted, and it was scripted to be favorable to her. I think it was not a bad move to do it. I don't think it hurt her at all. And, you know, it was just sort of too little too late was the feeling I had when I saw it. Like, I really didn't see it moving the needle at all, which I think was borne out. But I wish she had done more of that sort of thing. But again, maybe in a less scripted format.

And if she makes a gaff, she makes a gaffe. But let people see her as a human being. I just, I really think that was one of the big failures of the campaign. And I honestly don't even, I don't put that on her. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's what she wanted. But I really do put it on these Democratic strategists who just all need to go live on an island, not in America together. Yeah, I just, I just talked to Jim Gaff again for the last laugh, which is we'll be coming out after people hear this. But we were talking about because he was in the room at SNL playing Tim Walls. you know, when he was in the first part of that sketch before Kamala came out. And he was saying that, you know, the vibe in that studio, as you could imagine, was electric and everyone thought it, you know, she came off so well. And he was like calling his wife at home being like, how did it play on TV? And she was like, it was amazing. So there is this sort of like thing you can get into where you, where you think something, you know, when I think it did go well, but like

the idea that that was going to, you know, sway anyone who's already watching SNL, which, you know, so I think, I guess I felt like used to be a more. broad show that appealed to all kinds of people. And I think they've efforted to make it that in some ways, but maybe is now narrowed its audience more to the left. That's 100% what I think as well. And that, and that's why I saw it and thought, oh, that was good. But I, you know, I didn't for a minute see it moving the needle at all just because it's, you know, you're preaching to the choir. And what we're talking about here is going on places that where it's, you're not preaching to the choir. And, and you can do that. You can go on a Rogan show. He's not going to

be tough on you. He just, you know, you can say pretty much anything you want to Joe Rogan and he'll go, that's wild. So, you know, it's not like he was going to be harsh on her. And so I really think, I do think it was a missed opportunity for her, you know, to not do that show. But yeah, of course, you know, as he's wanted to do, Trump jumped on the S&L thing to complain about, you know, fair time. And I think he ended up getting some time on NBC, NASCAR. or something. Yeah, the next day. In response. But yeah, it did make me think, you know, now that he's won, you know, that he's going to, whether he's going to continue threatening these comedy critics of his on, whether it's S&L or some of the late night hosts, it's hard to know. I think he talked a lot about it in his

first term. He didn't take any action against them. You know, we're already seeing him take action against journalists in a new way, in a bigger way that he has before. You know, I've talked to a couple of the the host, Seth Myers, before the election, and then I just talked to Ronnie Chang from the Daily Show after the election. And they both have the same attitude of like, we're not worried. He's not, it's all talk. He's not actually going to come after us and try to get our shows canceled or censor what we're allowed to say. And they feel very confident about that. And I feel less confident. But I don't know. What do you think? I mean, look, the whole, the S&L thing became, you know, Brendan Carr, who is Trump's pick to chair the FCC, has been out there threatening

to, you know, look at pulling NBC's broadcast license, and we don't need to get into a whole thing about how NBC doesn't actually have a broadcast license as a network. But that's, that's two in the weeds for, for us. Yeah. It just highlights how stupid this whole thing is, but it also shows that, look, I hope, you know, I hope Seth and, and Ronnie and all this guy, I hope they're right, obviously. I'm not 100% there. I think I'm more with you or I'm like, well, it's his second term. A lot of things that were bluster in the first term, I think, are going to get much closer to reality in the second term. Yeah, it's the nothing to lose term, unless he runs in 2028. Right, or just gets appointed for life. So, you know, I think they could take

solace in that the enemies list is so long that at some points it needs to become a priorities list. I don't think they're going to be very high on the priorities list because, you know, when you're talking about defunding the government, I don't think the prosecutors all get funded even more. And this list is up. It's tombs big at this point. Yeah, it's getting long. It does make me wonder whether the late-night hosts, like some journalists, I would say, are already pulling punches on Trump, you know, or being careful. You know, I saw Stephen Colbert do it in a sort of tongue-in-cheek way where he was talking about Trump's threats against the media and saying, like, look, it's not me. I'm really nice to Trump now. And even actually, SNL did that cold open, I guess maybe it was the first one after the election where they did the similar thing where they were like, we love dear leader Trump now.

and please don't come after us. Donald Trump, who tried to forcibly overturn the results of the last election, was returned to office by an overwhelming majority. This is the same Donald Trump who openly called for vengeance against his political enemies. And now, thanks to the Supreme Court, there are no guardrails. Nothing to protect the people who are brave enough to speak out against him. And that is why we at SNL would like to say to Donald Trump, we have been with you all along

we have never wavered in our support of you even when others doubted you every single person on this stage believed in you every single person on this stage voted for you because we see ourselves in you we look at you and think that's me it's sort of biting satire but it's sort of, you know, it's making the point in a softer way maybe than they could.

I don't know. I'm not super worried about that. I do think that that is, and look, we'll have to see what happens going forward. I think that's a, that's not a bad reaction for like, you know, your first show post-election or whatever. And it was funny. It was good. Yeah, exactly. Colbert, I don't, look, I don't watch, as I said before, I don't watch a lot of late-night shows these days. is generally speaking, nothing against them or the guys hosting them. I just don't do it. But every once in a while I spend a night at my mom's, and she flips back and forth between them,

but I think she watches local news on CBS at 11, so Colbert comes on after that. And I sit there and I say to myself, and I hate that I'm saying this, but he is just not funny anymore. And don't know what happened to him because he truly was a comedy genius. I mean, the Colbert report and everything.

And now I watch it, and he's doing like the lowest hanging hashtag resistance humor. It is actually painful for me to watch to the point where I've said to my mom, can we just please not watch Colbert? Like, I've reached the point where I'd rather watch Jimmy Fallon, and that is a wild thing to be saying. I know. Yeah, of those three who are on at the same time, I would say Kimmel is the one who is the most consistently funny to me. But even, you know, he is.

And I think he's kind of. been trying to find his way a little bit, even since the election, I think he's, he had this very, like, sincere thing that he did just before the election, where he did this, like, 30-minute plea to Republicans to please listen to him and consider voting against Trump. Obviously, that didn't work. And now I think he's backed off a little bit from the political stuff. He still does it, but I think he's trying to figure out what his role is going to be. But yeah, Colbert, you know, I think he still has his moments every once in a while, but I don't know what he's doing exactly. he's playing so broad, and I guess it's worked, like, you know, none of them get huge ratings, but he's often at the top.

Yeah. So he's trying to play to this broader audience, but he's also being very partisan, so that I don't really, it's hard to understand what he's doing. But yeah, the evolution of him from the early days of the Colbert Report, I mean, really, the entire run of the Colbert Report, which is pretty solid, until now, it's a little bit baffling to see what's happened to him as a comedian. and as, you know, a voice who was so vital and now was making jokes that, yeah, they kind of often feel interchangeable with Jimmy Fallon's very soft monologue jokes. Yeah, or they're just the kind of things you would, you know, you would see from, from one of the resistance type folks on Twitter or Blue Sky. And it's just like, I should qualify what I said earlier. I suspect Stephen Colbert is still very, very, very funny. I don't think that just goes away.

I just think it's still in there somewhere. Yeah, and you see it sometimes in the interviews. He can be very sharp and very incisive. I just think that this is the path that he and the producers of the late show have chosen for his monologue type stuff. And it's just, it is literally painful to me. It is like I feel like Alex in Clockwork Orange being forced to watch it. And it makes me sad, too, because he was, you know, with the Colbert Report and his work with the Daily Show. and everything. I mean, he was, he was one of the best things in comedy on TV for a very long time, in my opinion. Yeah, I would have hoped that John Stewart coming back once a week on Mondays would have inspired Colbert to up his game and maybe match the commentary happening over there. But they're just doing two very different things at this point. Yeah, for sure. I'm reminded of years ago, John Cleese did a hour-long interview on creativity. And he talked about how one of the things comedians have said when they get together is that when you're at that thing. of when you go, is this too much? It's almost never good to go. Yeah, it's too much and back down. It's usually you're rewarded when you go, what if we went a little further? Yeah, and maybe Colbert's always stopping before he gets there. That's my implication here. And look, we don't know, you know,

if he has gotten directives from CBS. I mean, CBS in general is a network that skews older and this may be what they want him to be doing. And so, you know, who knows? I just know that. I just know that for me personally, I can't watch it. Yeah. The other sort of storyline that's happened this year, you know, going back to Joe Rogan is after the election, there was this big outcry of the liberals need their own Joe Rogan. I don't know how much you guys engaged with that or believed in that. But I was sort of following it, you know, out of curiosity and seeing who was getting talked about as who could that person be. And I think, you know, the general consensus was like, that's the wrong question and it doesn't make any sense. And there's not going to be a liberal

Joe Rogan. And Joe Rogan could have been the liberal Joe Rogan, but he ended up on the other side for various reasons. But yeah, is there anyone, you know, that you've seen that you feel like could even, you know, fill that role in any way? Now, we did have a long discussion about this on the show. And I think we all sort of came to the conclusion that it's not happening for various reasons. But to me, chief among them is Joe Rogan, for me, is less ideological than he is just simply credulous. And, you know, he will listen to anyone say anything and basically not challenge them. Like I said earlier, he'll just say things like, you know, that's wild or, you know, whatever. Or my favorite, Jamie, can you check that? Oh, look, it's on Info Wars. Yeah, it's right.

Yeah. Yeah. And it becomes news like the two times a year when when Jamie checks it and it turns out the thing isn't true. And that then becomes news, which should tell you that they're not doing it enough and don't care enough. I don't see it for so many reasons and that one chief among them. But also I just think, you know, liberals and lefties, there's a lot of differences there. And I don't think you're going to find one person who satisfies all of that the way Joe Rogan sort of satisfies this sort of monolithic MAGA cohort on the right or the, you know, the quote-unquote anti-woke people or whatever you want to call them. I just, I think there's a lot more nuance on the left. And Joe Rogan does not do nuance. And I don't know how you, so I don't know how you have a left counterpart to that.

Yeah, I wrote a piece for The Daily Beast when Anthony Jesselnik's new special on Netflix came out and sort of made the argument sort of that he could be that role because of his ability to not pull punches in the comedy sphere while also having a pretty solid, I don't know if you would call it woke because of the content of his jokes, but a sort of, he serves as a really good counterpoint to the Joe Rogans of the world and the Dave Chappelle's of the world and people who are being offensive for offensive's sake instead of really considering what they're saying and trying to be funny for funny sake. I know, I know you're a fan of his as well, Andy. So do you think there's any credence to that? I don't think it's something Anthony Jocelynick wants. No, I was going to say that the first thing is I don't think he has any interest

in doing that. I am a fan. I thought his most recent Netflix special was fantastic. And, you know, we were talking before we started recording about he was a guest on, I forget whose podcast it was, and he was talking about how much he hates the phrase cancel culture. And he basically was saying, look, if comedians want to get up there and if you think your job is to be dangerous, you can't both pride yourself for being dangerous and then at the same point, get mad when there are people who are like, I don't want to hear that. And he used the example of Dave Chappelle. He's like, this is like one of the richest guys in the world who can, you know, sell out

whatever venue he wants. And he spends his time complaining that there are some people that don't like him. And he was pointing out just how ridiculous that is. and it was absolutely fantastic. I think people want common to be dangerous. I want coming to be dangerous. And if you can't get in trouble, it's not dangerous. Right.

So complaining about cancel culture is just saying you want to take all of the danger out of it and you want it to be easy for you. Right. Then I think as soon as I say it, you know, people cheer. Yeah. And this journalist was like,

do you think, why do you think people are cheering? Do you think they believe either you're about to talk about cancel culture? Do you think they, like, are sick of cancel culture? And I'm like, no, no, no. They're way more savvy than that. They've seen the first 40 minutes at the special. They know I'm not suddenly turning into Ricky Jervais.

Right. Like they get that I'm about to subvert this in some way. Yeah. But I hate people complaining about cancel culture. I hate comics complaining in general. It's the second comedy boom. It's not going anywhere. People make more money than ever before.

And Dave Chappelle, who's won every award in the world, is complaining that cancel culture is making his job harder. It's like, your job shouldn't be easy. If you're going to make that much fucking money, like, hey, maybe it should be a little hard. I got no issue with that. You know, the reason I don't think he would make it as a Joe Rogan type is exactly, to me, it's exactly what I was saying earlier. Anthony Jeslin, to me, is the exact opposite of credulous.

I mean, he is not going to sit there. He's going to challenge. Yeah, he's going to challenge. He's going to say, well, that sounds stupid, you know, or that makes no sense or, you know, you're a fucking idiot or whatever he, however he's going to put it. And he'd probably be a lot funnier about it than I just was. To me, he's almost like an anti-Rogan. Yeah, exactly. I think that's true.

And maybe that's what we need, actually, is the anti-Rogan. I mean, I would have liked to see him sit down with Trump for three hours. And I would have watched that. Oh, my God. That would have been amazing. That would have been absolutely amazing. I think that's one that Trump, if his advisors, knew anything about Anthony Jeslnick, would not have allowed him to do.

Definitely not. This has been a year of political comedy, unlike any other. I don't know what next year brings. Maybe the rise of more Anthony Jesselnik. type people and to be a strong counter as opposed to Stephen Colbert. Well, I guess it'll either be that or more front-facing TikTok people lip syncing to Trump quotes. Yeah.

Or doing bad crowd work. Yeah. The optimist in me has to believe that comedy in the past has always seen when people cower. That's when they step in and go bold. And I want to believe that's going to keep being true. Oh, I like that, Jesse. That's nice.

You're so hopeful. Naive, hopeful, we'll find out. All right. Thanks, guys. This is fun. That was really fun. Yeah, thanks, Matt. This is always a good time. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going.

This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.