The Daily Beast Podcast - Michael Flynn’s Boomer Moment Got a Trump Prayer Call Hacked

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

Daily Beast contributing editor Diana Falzone walks co-host Andy Levy through a piece she published this week which uncovers who actually caused a Donald Trump phone call with a religious group to be hacked. The former president blamed the troll-takeover of the call on the “radical left,” but as Falzone recounts, it was because Michael Flynn did something dumb. She also gives Andy, fellow Fox News alum, insight into the life of Fox News staffers trying to get the hell out and find another job. Plus! Dr. Céline Gounder, a clinician, epidemiologist and editor at large for public health at KFF Health News, breaks down the ruling in Texas to withdraw FDA-approved abortion drug Mifepristone. She tells co-host Danielle Moodie how this move has much scarier, and more far-reaching, implications than we think, especially for cancer patients or someone with a chronic illness who relies on FDA-approved meds. And the top cause of gun deaths for kids these days is not what you’d expect. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Welcome back. We have a great show for you today. Celine Gounder,

editor-at-Large for Public Health, KFF Health News, is here to talk about the Miffa-Prestone rulings and how it could possibly set a terrifying precedent for new medicine in America. Then we're joined by Daily Beast contributing editor Diana Falzone to talk about Michael Flynn's boomer moment that Trump blamed on the radical left. But first, let's have some fun. So, Danielle, as we saw it another week, The headline of the moment is five dead, eight injured. And this, of course, is yet another shooting in America. This one in Louisville, Kentucky, gunmen opened fire in a bank.

And as usual, we have dead people, we have injured people, we have a dead shooter. As of this recording, we don't know the motive, but police are saying that the murderer had some kind of connection to the bank. May have been a former employee, may have been a current employee, we just don't know yet. But I feel like every week I'm sitting here saying I'm out of things to say. And every week I have to say it again because there's another damn shooting. And it's just so depressing and just knowing that this will probably change as much as every other shooting has changed. In other words, nothing. I mean, this is just where we are as a country, apparently, Daniel.

I don't understand how we're supposed to live like this. Yeah. I don't understand how we're supposed to continue processing. Just think about the fact that we are in April and there have been so many mass shootings. Like we haven't even covered them all, right? We only cover the ones that make headline news because it either happens at a school. It happens at a place of worship or there are five or more victims that are killed. It's just like, how do Republicans think that this is the way that we should live?

You think that money is going to save you? I don't understand how you can look at this situation. you see these fucking headlines on a regular basis, and you have the power to stop this from happening. And you choose not to. Like, this is not an impossible thing to stop. Other countries have stopped this. Yeah.

I mean, look, we are an outlier in the world, and everybody knows that. And we know it. The problem is that some people think that's a good thing, apparently. I don't know. I'm not really sure how to engage with that thought. process. You know, it reminded me of when, I don't know if it was early on during the pandemic or whatever, one of the big donors, I think, for Turning Point USA died of COVID. Even that did not stop Charlie

Kirk and the people from that horrific organization from, you know, basically being pro-COVID. I mean, you can call it what you want, but if you can look at it, you would think, well, maybe if it hits close to home, they'll get the message. And I don't, I don't think they will. I really don't think they will. have a congressional member, remember? Yes, Steve's police. Was shot at the stadium saved by a black lesbian cop. And you would think like in that moment, no, he just decided to get more guns.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I mean, we're in an untenable situation. But at the same time, nobody is, I don't want to say nobody's interested in changing it. Nobody on one side is interested in changing it. And they'll sit there and they'll hold little round tables and talk about, well, This is the cost of freedom. This is the price we pay.

This is not the price of freedom. It shouldn't be the cost of freedom. We're in, like, I think the 100th day of the year, and there have been well over 100 mass shootings already, close to 150, I believe. I don't understand the mentality that says that, you know, more than one mass shooting a day is okay and is somehow the cost of freedom. This is not the cost of freedom. The cost of freedom is a phrase that people who have never had to pay for anything in their lives throw around. It's so heinous and it's just every day we have to see weeping parents and weeping schoolmates. And the toll of these things is so far beyond just the death.

It's what it does to the people who were there. Imagine the other students in a school when there's a school shooting. Yes, they survived. They are scarred for life. I mean, this is not something that you just shrug off. And to throw all that under the label of, that's the price of freedom. No, fuck off. This latest shooting happened inside of a bank.

So people going about their normal day-to-day lives. And then to just have that disrupted, stopped. It's about the emotions that are going to happen in that community, in that state, in that place. But it's the reverberations that happen to all of us. every time, every week that we are stopped in our tracks, wondering every time we leave our homes, are we coming back? I just don't understand what it is going to take. And that's why I keep talking about a national protest.

I keep talking about, like, grinding down this capitalistic machine that tells us that we just need to work through everything. I'm tired of working through trauma. I don't know what it's like to, you know, have to send kids to school in this day and age. I don't know what it's like, you know, Again, people are shot at parades in banks, at synagogues, in churches, you know, like movie theaters. There's no place that's safe. No place. Yeah, I just, I look at this and I think, you know, remember after 9-11, everyone was like worried about

the next attack and where the next terrorist would come from and what they would hit. And it's like they probably just sat there. They're sitting there now going, we don't even have to bother. They do it to themselves. They do it to themselves. The terrorists are here, but they're us. It's absolutely insane that this is acceptable to anyone. And yet, here we are.

So following our news of this latest shooting, we are still playing off of what happened after the Tennessee school shooting. And the expulsion of both Justin Jones and Justin Pearson, who were ejected for, because again, what did we say last week, that black men with a bullhorn are clearly more dangerous to the GOP than white insurrectionists with weapons. Yeah. Black people exercising their right to assemble and protest is more dangerous than insurrectionists building gallows and using flagpoles as weapons.

Yeah. There's no other way to look at it. We know what they consider the real threat in this country. And like he said, it's people of color basically saying, we're not going to put up with this shit. anymore. That to them is the biggest threat because it threatens them directly. The only good thing that's come out of this is, I mean, Justin Pearson and Justin Jones, it seems to me, have the makings of great national leaders. Yes. I mean, watching them speak was just like, I got chills

watching them speak. They were that good. At some point, the Republicans are going to realize that this was a big mistake. And I think there are a lot of national Republicans who already realize this was a mistake politically. I don't think they think it was a mistake morally or ethically because they, you know, for the most part, have neither of those. But just in terms of raw naked politics, I think that you're seeing national Republicans in some cases disassociating themselves from this. And I think I get the sense that maybe fingers crossed the local Republicans in Tennessee are going to eventually find out the same thing and that this is going to end up being a fuck around and find out situation. I pray. Because the

The backlash to this has been tremendous, and thank God for that. If things work out, I think both Justin's will hopefully be appointed to fill their own empty seats. You see what they're doing. The GOP is threatening to defund. Yes. Look, they're trying every dirty trick in the building. I think at first the speaker said he wouldn't seat them until 2025. And I think he's backed off of that.

But they are. They're threatening to defund. I think it's Memphis. Mm-hmm. And again, I think they're going to find out that. They, even for them, they went too far this time. I could be wrong. And a lot of times on this show, I say, I hope I'm wrong.

This time I hope I'm not wrong. This time I hope I'm right. I hope that they do find out and figure out that they went too far this time. And the mask slipped a little too much, particularly when they threw out the two black men and let the white woman stay. Right. I just hope I'm right here. And that even these soulless, empty vessels figure out that there is a little bit of. limit to how much they can push without the pushback directly affecting them.

I mean, I think that that's what the Republicans are going to find out as a whole, that their parade of racism, their parade of misogyny, the attacks on bodily autonomy, the attacks on trans people. Like, I think that a majority of Americans are waking up to the fact that they are literally ticking off boxes and you're pushing people to the point where the pushback is going to be severe. And it's about fucking time. I think you're right. And I think you're right to link this to other things, which include abortion bans, which includes the rampant attacks on trans people, on gay people. I think the Republicans right now are making the big mistake of thinking that their base is the country. I don't think that's true. I don't think that 80% of the country are progressive Democrats or anything like that. No. But I do think that the majority of the country looks at this shit and is just like, you guys.

are mean. Yeah. Like I think above all, it just really gets to the phrase that Adam Serwer coined, the cruelty is the point. And I think that a lot of people in the middle and even some on the center right are waking up to the fact that these people are just cruel. They're just mean and they're using their power to spread this cruelty. And that there is no logical reason for what they do beyond that.

That is their motivation. I do think that they are learning. Look, they learned in Wisconsin. with abortion they learned in the midterms with a lot of these issues that the majority of the country looks at them and thinks, guys, are a little crazy about this stuff, aren't you? And the thing is, too, like, their constituents aren't gaining anything? Right. That's the thing. It's just a shared hatred for the same groups of people. But they're not gaining anything. They didn't get lower taxes. They didn't get free health care. It's like, can you just live on hate alone?

Is that it? Because they're not actually offering you anything that makes your life better. What they are offering is to make everyone else's life around you worse. Is that enough? I think it is for like 20%. And that's the base. That's the MAGA folks. That's the diehard Trumpists, the DeSantis fans, the people like that. That's what gets them through the day. But I agree with you. It is not enough, I think, for the vast majority of this country. And that's hopefully what they are in the process of finding out. And look, the smarter Republicans now are saying it. They're straight up saying it. They're saying, we are not learning our lessons from 2020. Carrie Lake says she wants to run for Senate in Arizona. And any Republican with any sanity is going, what the hell are you doing? How do you not understand

that this is not what the country wants? And, you know, so the question is, how much longer will it be before even the not as smart Republicans figure this out? I don't know. I honestly don't know. And speaking of, you know, Republicans sort of not paying attention to the will of the people, we have Clarence Thomas, who apparently pays attention to the will of rich people. Mm-hmm. We talked a little bit on the last show about the story that had just broken from ProPublica about the ungodly amount of expensive trips and stuff like that that Thomas got from a Dallas real estate guy named Harlan Crow,

which is just a straight up Stephen King villain-ass name. Folks, like, I'm going old school here, but I have to believe that this man is the character from scandal. Like, I have to believe that Shonda Rhymes was just like, oh, yeah, this is a good one. He is a, like, it's a cartoon villain fucking name. That and the fact that the man has filled his home with what he refers to as historic memorabilia,

but Nazi cocktail napkins, for everybody. I mean, the guy has a place called what he calls the Garden of Evil, where he has busts and stuff like that of people like Stalin and I think Mao and things like that. But then he has a whole separate place in his house that just is devoted to Hitler and Nazi memorabilia. And I know this has been a big topic of discussion. I don't think that makes him a Nazi.

I think it makes him a deeply weird person. But it is a little weird to have naughty cocktail napkins on display. Oh, an autographed copy of MindConf. And Hitler's paintings on his wall. Like, it's just, again, look, people collect weird things and that doesn't make them the thing they collect. But this is deeply fucking weird. And this is the guy who it funds, as it turns out, I think he's on the board of the Hoover Institute. He pays for some conservative websites.

He basically pays all the people that won't shut up about George Soros, is the sentence that I'm getting here. And the people who are very upset that the New York judge donated $35 to Joe Biden, the judge that will be trying Donald Trump's case. That is very upsetting to the people that are being funded by Harlan Crow. You can't even say his name without like the chuckle. But I always, all I keep thinking is when you meet him and you're like, oh hi, Harlan Crow and he's like, oh, call me Jim.

I don't know. That just keeps running through my head. Jesus Christ. I don't know. Maybe I'm being unfair to the guy. I don't know, but. I'm pretty sure we're not being unfair. Like, I'm pretty sure he, I mean, Clarence Thomas got one of the trips was, what did we say,

half a million dollars? Yes. Like, where the fuck are you going? Do you, like, I honestly, like, I want to. to know where he went, where him and Ginny went for $500,000. I'm like, the man bought himself a Supreme Court justice. Like, let's just put Clarence and Ginny in the Garden of Evil, because that's honestly what they are. The only thing I'll say about that is I think Clarence Thomas is who he is with or without Harlan Crow's trips. So my point is, I think Clarence Thomas is terrible, even without

Harlan Crow. So I, you know, as far as look, yes, they take these trips and these trips also on these trips were, I think, Leo Strauss from the Federalist Society, which of course is the organization for getting all these conservative justices boosted and appointed and all of that stuff. And yes, all of that is a clear conflict of interest and Clarenstower should be investigated. I know there are some calls. AOC, among others, has called for an impeachment. And I'm all for all of that. But all of that said, I do think that Clarence Thomas would be writing the same horrible decisions and voting the same horrible ways with or without Harlan Crow. So, you know, I guess I'm sort of giving Thomas the benefit of the doubt here that he's not bought and paid for as much as he is just horrible. I give that man no benefit of the fucking doubt.

I haven't given him benefit of the doubt since his fucking confirmation hearing. Okay. You shouldn't be on the Supreme Court. you fucking piece of trash. Like that's how I feel about it. Right. I think we're saying the same thing. Folks, I am very happy to welcome to the new abnormal Dr. Celine Gounder, who is the editor

at large for public health at KFF Health News and is a clinician and epidemiologist. Dr. Gounder, there are so many stories that concern our public health in this country. And first I want to start off with the news that came out last Friday evening with a decision to conflicting decisions on Mitha Pristone. Can you talk to us, just give us the 50,000 foot view. We've been watching the case in Texas with the Trump appointed judge. The decision was to bring the Mitha Pristone case, which, by the way, folks, has been in usage in this country for 20 years when it was FDA approved 20 years ago. And this decision on the quote unquote abortion pill was to put a place a ban on it. And this ban would not just be in Texas.

It would be nationwide. So can you just tell us a bit about how you have been following this story? Sure. And it's great to be here, Danielle. So the ruling out of Texas orders the FDA to withdraw Mitha pristone as an FDA-approved abortion drug. And that ruling could impact even abortion havens like. New York and California. And at the same time, you have this ruling out of Washington state that

orders the FDA to maintain the current availability of Mitha-Pristone in 17 states in D.C. Those state attorneys general representing those 17 states in D.C. are in fact suing to liberalize the way in which Mitha-Pristone is prescribed because Mifapristone has been very tightly prescribed and dispensed ever since it was first approved in the year 2000. And why is that? Well, so as a condition of approving Mephepristone back in 2000, the FDA said, well, you need to report any, you as a provider, if you have any patient who has a severe adverse event or what you consider as a bad side effect from taking Mepapristone, you need to report

that to the drug manufacturers. The drug manufacturers, in turn, need to report that to the FDA. And that is not done for most medications. There's actually a very specific subset of medications, I think, less than 60 or so for which you have those requirements in place. And now we have over 20 years of experience with Mitha Pristone after approval, 23 years, and in fact, 10 years, a decade or so of experience, even before the approval, all of which shows that Mitha Pristone is very safe. In fact, one of the safest medications we have. And so to have such strict controls over how you prescribe and dispense seems really out of date now. So can you talk to us as well about the usages for Mithipristone

and why the removal of a medication like this in circulation could be dire in a lot of situations? Well, over half of abortions in the U.S. now are medication abortions. Now, could you do a medication abortion without Mithopristone. You could, if a pristone does, is it blocks the progesterone during a pregnancy so that your uterine lining sheds, like you have a period, basically, and can't sustain a pregnancy. The mesoprostol, which is the second drug that you take, is the one that actually causes the uterine contractions. And in many parts of the world, you can use just mesoprostol, but it is more painful for women to have only mesoprostol. You might have more bleeding, It's not quite as effective as the combination of Mephoprostone and mesoprostol.

But I think big picture, women would prefer to have the option to take medications, have a medication abortion in the privacy and safety of their own home if they can. And it's also just a lot more convenient than having to drive to a clinic for a surgical abortion. I find this case so troubling because if we're in a situation where judges, not doctors, politicians, not doctors, get to make decisions about what medications can be used, can be pulled from the marketplace. Like, what does that set us up for? How does the medical community feel at this moment with so much politics, bad politics,

being put before public health? Well, this really could undermine the FDA's authority for all. medications. Congress did not delegate authority to the judicial branch to be making decisions about drugs and vaccines and all of the things that the FDA regulates. That authority is delegated to the FDA. And it's in part because there's a recognition that you need specific, scientific and medical expertise in the same way that you have other specialized agencies from OSHA to the EPA. They are staffed by people who have the kind of expertise. necessary to be making these decisions. And this really does represent unprecedented judicial

overreach and could impact any medication approved by the FDA. So for example, other technologies that have gotten caught up in the culture wars, well, stem cells. So any FDA approved treatment for certain cancers or for neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's or ALS, you know, if this ruling stands, well, a judge could decide, a single judge could decide, you know what, the FDA, you're going to have to withdraw your approval for this cancer drug. Wow. Wow. We are just in really incredibly scary times and uncharted territory.

And, you know, it brings me back, Dr. Gounder, to the beginning of the pandemic, where we were praising, you know, this was three years ago, we're praising doctors, we're praising the community for being frontline essential workers and, you know, sitting in front of our televisions and waiting for any news about the pandemic and different guidelines and this and that. And now we are here. How stressed is the medical community at this time in the U.S.? Oh, wow. People are really burned out. People are really pissed off. We are seeing nurses in particular quitting their jobs, moving away from, say, hospital work to outpatient work, moving into work that is less stressful, that has not as difficult of hours. And even physicians, you're starting to see,

maybe they're not quitting, but they're scaling back their hours, they're taking early retirement, they're moving into administrative jobs or other sectors like pharmaceutical industry or biotech where they just don't have to deal with some of these issues. And so I am really concerned also about the public health workforce where since 2017, we have lost half the public health workforce. I mean, that is dramatic and it leaves us in really bad shape. Yeah, it's just, you know, one of the other things I think, too, that, you know, and we'll shift gears to talk about, unfortunately, the latest mass shooting in this country. But before we get there, the other crisis that I feel that doesn't get nearly the amount of attention is our mental health crisis.

Is the emotional stability of our country? I mean, you know, I have to tell you that when I start to see statistics and numbers with regard to anti-anxiety medications, antidepressants, like having skyrocketed over the last three and four years, and we don't talk about it. Like we're not having outward town halls and engaging with what's going on. Can you speak to that, piece, the kind of collective trauma that we have been dealing with?

I think this also, it's important to say, predates the pandemic. So around 2015 or so, a number of us medical and public health experts started tracking more carefully what we call the diseases of despair. And so that includes mental illness, that includes drug overdose, that includes gun violence, and all the downstream consequences of that, including death. And because of those factors, we have seen a drop in life expectancy in the U.S. that has continued to drop over the pandemic. And now is also killing kids.

And that is the newest development. I mean, it's just, you know, when I think about how we are referred to as, you know, the wealthiest nation, America is one of the wealthiest nations. And then I see numbers about our decline in life expectancy and how this is. something that has become a pattern, I don't see how we reconcile with that. When we're not talking about public health and, you know, in the next conversation is about the fact that the number one killer of kids is not cancer. It is not car accidents. It is now guns. That's just astounding to me. But tell me, how did we get here? Oh, well, that would be a very long thesis.

But I will say there is some new data that has come out this week, both from Pew and KFF, Pew analyzed data out of the CDC and found that gun deaths among kids and teens in the U.S. rose by 50% over the course of the pandemic. And KFF drills into this a bit further. And with respect to gun safety, three and four adults in households with guns, say that at least one gun in their home is either unlocked, loaded, and or kept with ammunition, which means you have three and four adults in households with guns who are not storing their guns safely. And we know kids are naturally curious. If they come across a gun, it could lead to an

accident. It could also be used for homicide or suicide. And by the way, most of the deaths we're seeing in kids and teens in the U.S. are homicides. Is that right? So it is. It is not suicides. It is not suicides for kids. Now, among adults, you have more of an even split. It's about half and half. But among kids, most of that gun violence resulting in death is homicide. I'm speechless.

You know, it was two weeks ago that we experienced the school shooting in Tennessee. And, you know, three nine-year-olds, three adults murdered in their school. Then now, two weeks later, we have another mass shooting that has happened inside of a bank. This is a regular occurrence. We are at, I believe, 100 days in this year, and there have been over 150 mass shootings. I think that, you know, the question that I have is around sounding the alarm of this being a public health issue. Nothing seems to move the needle here. And so how do you think that talking about this pandemic that we are living in, this kind of consistent crises, talking about it as a public health issue, how do you think that that angle can help shift politicians? Because it's not the people. The people want, you know, gun reform. Do you think that talking about it as a public health issue is a better way to deliver that message?

Well, many of us have been trying to do that for years now. There are those who will push back and say, well, I don't understand why guns are a public health issue, to which I would say, if life expectancy is dropping as a result of guns, if you end up in my care requiring medical care because of guns, if you find yourself dead because of guns, that is by definition a public health issue. And so I do think we need to take a public health approach, which means you start with data. You start by doing the research. and understanding in different communities, it's going to be perhaps different demographics, different types of gun violence, different interventions that will work. But you have to start by gathering the data and then trying different things, doing those experiments.

And then when they work, implementing them to scale. And unfortunately, that is not happening across the country. And you know, you said pandemic. I would actually say it's not a pandemic because it's not a worldwide problem, the way COVID was. This is a very uniquely American problem. You do not see these kinds of death rates from guns in other peer countries. So other high-income countries, you do not see this kind of death from guns. I mean, it's just outrageous.

We're talking about the life expectancy. We're looking at guns. We're looking at the fact that this, you're talking about the life expectancy decreasing. And that was happening prior to the pandemic. And I'm just wondering, with public health having become so politicized. And I will say this. I'm not putting words in your own mouth. This is coming from me because of the Republican Party.

Public health has become so politicized. I've never seen it be discussed in the manner that it is, where we now, we'd move from praising doctors and nurses to now threatening them, whether it is around gender affirming care, if it's around abortion, if it is around COVID. This is the place that we're in. And I'm wondering, how does the industry, I don't know if it is rebrand, if it's how do you regain the trust that has been decimated because of the bad mouthing and intentional bad mouthing by one of our two political parties? Well, I think one challenge for public health, in contrast to health care, is that public health health is really about the public. It's not about individual patients.

And I think the idea that you would do something, that you would be your brother's keeper, that you would take action or spend taxpayer money to protect someone other than yourself and your family, you know, is controversial to some people. And I think that's part of the problem. In terms of trust, I do think public health officials could have managed communications with the public over the course of the pandemic better. But, you know, I think there's also been a war on public health that's really, gotten pretty aggressive over the last couple years and is quite dire in this moment. And how do we reverse that? Well, I think instead of having reporting on public health out of the CDC or out of DC at this very bureaucratic level with sort of faceless institutions, I think you really need to get down to the community level so people can see it's people just like themselves who are

suffering, who are also stepping up to help. And I think that kind of communication is going to be a big part of it. You know, last question for you is, again, and I know that you're not a psychologist, but just in terms of how you talk to people about whether they're in the medical industry and experiencing stress, anxiety, trauma, like, what are some of the best practices of how we move through this time? Well, you know, these are, this is the epidemic of diseases of despair that we're living through right now. And I think, first of all, we need to have hope. If we try to combat diseases of despair with lack of hope and despair ourselves, we're never going to combat them successfully.

And I think that also starts with understanding what are some of the things that work, that together we can implement and bring to fruition. These are not problems we're going to be able to solve by ourselves. We're really going to have to ban together with others to get the job done. Dr. Celine Gounder, thank you so much for making the time to join the new abnormal. And thank you for your voice on this and so many other issues. We really do appreciate you on your work. Happy to be here. Thanks so much. Nothing is more abnormal than the rise of the radical right. Fever Dreams is a daily beast podcast taking you inside the rights push to retake power from the

Maga Acolytes to the straight up grifters. They recently released their 100th episode so there's no better time to listen. Head to beast.pub slash fever dreams to check it out. Back in late March, an online prayer session hosted by a Christian nationalist organization and featuring Donald Trump ran into some issues when the accused felon's phone line kept going dead. And no surprise, the twice impeached GOP frontrunner immediately blame this on a hack by the quote unquote radical left. Joining me now is Daily Beast contributing editor Diana Falzone to maybe throw some water on this theory. Diana, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me, Andy. It is a pleasure. And this is definitely a story that makes you have a little bit of a chuckle. Yeah. Because it's very obvious. And a Trump camp insider spoke with me about this. And just to go back,

this happened on March 20th. I was to pray for the ex-president as he was facing his indictment. And you had all kinds of characters joining like Roger Stone and Michael Flynn. And it turned chaotic after the ex-president's line went dead moments after he joined the call. And what Trump said was, I quote, I think what happened was that the radical left was working on the phone. There's no question about it. Then he got disconnected, very frustrated. He came back on and said, I think probably it was the radical left that did something with the phone lines. At the time, the Trump team did not look into it, nor did Flynn's team, no one, right?

So here we cut to today. And I spoke with this Trump insider late last week. And they acknowledged of the situation. and they said that there was no hack at all, that the Pastors for Trump events private back end was infiltrated because Mike Flynn publicly posted the link. The insider called it a, quote, dumb mistake. And the insider said that has never been publicly remedied.

It bothered this Trump insider that no one has come forward to not blame the radical left and not to say, hey, listen, you know, Mike Flynn tweeted this out to his 1. million followers, two Mac minutes after the event began. alongside a link granting access to users to the private back end of the call. So as a result, the private speakers area was blotted by hundreds of trolls, causing the whole system to crash, and those that were logged in, using the link, watch the whole thing happen in real time. So that is what really went down. It's just kind of comical, really, that the blame is still on the quote unquote radical lap. Oh, it's hilarious.

And I still prefer to think that it was nefarious, radical left. hackers wearing like all black antifa gear typing furiously and then saying, I'm in. Because that's what I've been taught in movies is how hacks happen. Right. Yeah. And masks and all that. Yes, exactly. Tell me about this Trump insider who is upset that something was blamed on the radical left because that's kind of unbelievable in and of itself. The Trump insider just wants the truth out. I mean, that is amazing to me. Shockingly, amazing. I know. I'm not asking you to reveal who it is, obviously. I'm just like I'm a little stunned that a Trump insider after all these years was finally sitting there go,

okay, this is too much. This is too much. It would, it hit the level of ethically too much. And for it to be such an easy fix to just say, hey, technical difficulties, I think it kind of was a boomer moment for Mike Flynn. And I made numerous attempts to reach out to Mike Flynn directly, to his camp. No one got back to me. As of this article's publication, Flynn has still surprisingly not deleted the tweet. And it has got heard more than 1,000 retweets and 101,000 views. It's not the end of the world type thing. But everything about this story is amazing. And the fact that he still has the tweet just sitting out there publicly is just unreal. So unapologetically. I think that's why they get away with it all, to be quite honest. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just like, so what if I was wrong? I said, get off my lawn. Get off my lawn. No, I don't care.

Oh, my God. Also, I will say, so the only person who responded back to me because Trump's camp did not respond back to me, also after several attempts of trying to reach out to them, when I did reach out for comment, pastors for Trump's founder Jackson Lawmeyer, he responded saying our live stream prayer call with President Donald Trump was tremendous with over 155,000 people watching live and over 3,000 pastors. but he did avoid directly addressing Flynn's alleged responsibility for the disruptions and wrote to us, unfortunately, leftist trolled invaded our backstage on the live stream because the link was shared publicly and that caused it to shut down. Thankfully, we were able to recover and record a phone call conversation with President Trump where I had the opportunity to pray over him. So there you go. And less than a month later, he was indicted on 34 felony counts. Great praying.

Great praying. Great praying. Well, I think the prayers needed to start a very long time ago for Trump. Yeah, it's a little late. It's a little late. Right. Now we're looking for redemption, right? Actually, I don't doubt that a bunch of trolls saw this link and called in.

Like, sure, that seems like something people would do. But it is kind of funny that instead of just saying, hey, Donald Trump is so popular that when the link went public, so many people called in wanting to express their support that it flooded the system. But instead of going that way, they went with leftist trolls. Well, it garners more hatred. Hard to buy. I guess, yeah. No, I guess that's fair.

The popularity thing would just wouldn't really help. I mean, outrage is kind of the loud chant. No, you're right. That's the currency, de jour, is outrage. But I would just think, you know, it'd be like, yeah, the event was such a success. It overwhelmed our systems. Right. I mean, that would be the other way to go.

But you're right. There's no outrage there. And all of these people feed off the outrage. So I'm sort of with you. You know, Michael Flynn, look, he's made some bad decisions lately, I feel like. Uh-huh. And this is keeping with that theme. Has anyone told him, do you think, that this was his fault? I'm not aware they have.

Okay. It's something I have asked. Yeah. But I certainly reached out directly to him and alerted him to this. Right. As well as members of his team. And I doubt that they just happened to miss my message. Yeah.

That would be amazing if that's how they found out. Yes. It's pretty clear as day there. It's right there. I mean, the details are not in the devil on this one. It's in the truth. Right. No, no, it's very obvious what happened.

All right. Yeah. I want to ask you, because we share. a bit of a common past at a place that is called Fox News Channel. In addition to the stuff you did there, you were a regular or semi-regular. I don't know. You were a fairly regular guest on Red Eye, the show I was part of. I know you and Justin Barragona, the Beast Senior Media Reporter, wrote a thing a month or so ago, where you managed to talk to a bunch of actual journalists there and what their thoughts were on the whole Dominion lawsuit thing. What did you learn? What we learned is

that it's just a really bad time to be working here, as one news producer said. For anyone who's not really read into the Fox News, like, inner construct, there is a divide between, and when I say there's a divide, I mean, there's a divide between people that go there and really believe that they're going to do straight news and they're going to work as actual journalist and they're going to report the facts as so. And then you have your pundits like Tucker Carlson and Sean So when we talk about who Justin and I spoke to, it was it was about five sources who were all on the news side of Fox News and were working as either reporters or producers on the news side. And many of them felt like they were getting thrown under the bus by what was coming out in the Dominion filings and how their work was being undermined and censored and how they were concerned about retaliation. That's why they didn't use their names in the piece.

And how they already knew that you couldn't really believe the stuff that comes out of Tucker's mouth. But to think that the actual facts were being so hidden from the audience was very troubling for those that were trying to get the truth out there to the public. Look, I was there for, oh, God, over a decade. And it wasn't even as bad as it is now. I firmly believe that, that, you know, post-Trump, it really went completely off the rails. I'm not saying it was great before that or anything, but it has really changed. And I cannot imagine trying to do actual journalism at that network. Ultimately, the feeling among the news divisions employees that journalism is not a high priority

at Fox. And it's the ideology that drive the decisions at the network. We've seen that through some of the filings that have come out between Rupert Murdoch and President Suzanne Scott and that these concerns have only now risen since the Dominion filings were unsealed. And one reporter told us because the problem is it's pretty damn clear that the motivation for Fox is the money-based machine on the opinion side that drives all their business decision. That drives a lot of their programming decisions. So even if you have good reporters who are trying to report the news, it's just not what Fox as an entity sees as its value. So that sucks. Yeah, I mean, that just sums it up. It is, you know, it is completely an entertainment network now aimed at, you know, simultaneously pacifying and riling up its viewers. And it seems to be that, you know, 24-7 now, it used to be, you know, back when you and I were there, Shep Smith was there. And that was at least two hours a day where you could be like, okay, there'll be some actual news, you know, special report was pretty good. And now it's just like, it's just nothing.

Right. It's gotten to the point where if they would have just decided, let's say, even pre-election, the first election with Trump back in 2016, if they would have rebranded and said something like, we're no longer a news network. Right. We're going to give you straight up commentary 24-7 and we're going to format like a CNN competitor, but really we're just a big propaganda machine and we're going to tell our viewers what they want to hear. they'd be fine, but now they're facing so much, and I'm not an attorney, but in terms of just punitive damages they're on the hook for, maybe in Murdoch money world, that doesn't seem like a lot. But, you know, they could just be bleeding multi-millions. I mean, I know they're getting super 1.6 billion, but plus anything else that's occurred after that. So it's going to be very curious to see how Fox withstands this and the trial coming up in the next couple of weeks and the

players that they have that are set to testify. You do have the president, Suzanne Scott, Rupert Murdoch. I mean, you have these heavy hitters who are going to be coached to an inch of their life on what they can and I can't say. But this has got to be troubling for them. This has got to be something that they're worried about, you know, what heads are going to roll. Will Suzanne Scott have a job after all of this? Who knows? I mean, someone's going to have to be held accountable and it's certainly not going to be Murdoch himself. So it's going to be people under him. And then from the sides of the journalist, they're concerned about, will I work again?

That was something that, you know, you hear back some of the responses to this article that Justin and I did was like, oh, boo-hoo, these Fox News journalists should have known who they were working for. They're just as bad. And in media, you know, you go for where the job is. You know, many people are not independently wealthy. There's only so many major cable news stations you can work for. in this country in terms of even digital outlets and then some. So to fault people for going there with good intentions and not quite understanding the machine they were up against, which is so clear now.

Because many times you're not at the top of the heat. You're not seeing those email exchanges. That came out in discovery with Dominion. But to really know the beast that you're working for and that truly reporters are feeling censored and are feeling like if they weren't on the Trump bandwagon that they were going to be silenced in some way or criticized or potentially face retaliation or even lose their jobs, it's really disheartening and eye-opening. Yeah, couldn't agree more. And there are people who are still there who are trying to do good work. And I don't think they should be lumped in with the people who are going on air and lying for money and ratings. I just don't. Obviously, I have a, you know, I'm biased in that sense.

I mean, I eventually left Fox and I had another, I think I had a year and a half left on my contract. They just signed me to a two-year extension. And after like six months, I was like, I can't do this anymore. And there's just no place for me here anymore. And I asked to be let out and everything was amicable. And they did not make me sign an NDA or anything like that. So I can now say whatever the hell I want. But so the point is, I understand.

Like, I understand thinking, well, I'm doing good work. and I'm not one of those people and I shouldn't be lumped in with them. It's tough though. It is really tough. And there is a, I won't say this for myself. I never really felt it. I mean, look, I was on a 3 a.m. comedy show. But there is a stain that comes with working at Fox News that if you're lucky, you know, someone else will say, well, you know what, this person actually did do good work.

They'll look beneath the surface and they'll say, you know, yes, let's hire them, you know, whether it's a CNN or an MSNB. print outlet or whatever. But it is something that absolutely exists. And, you know, it exists for good reason for a lot of the folks there. And it's just, I do feel bad for the people that you're talking about who do go in there every day and try to do good work facing just enormous adversity in trying to do so. Well, one of my sources who recently left and recently left completely dismayed with the organization was there for. for over a decade and again started when things were not what they are now and left just thinking, wow, my career is in the toilet. And any time this source went for a job in media,

because they saw the amount of years there, assumed that this person was along those very, very right ideologies, was not able to get hired and had to figure out something else to do. And so many sources I speak to that have recently left are finding themselves out of work and having to go outside of media to be able to make ends meet for their families. And it's, it's a shame because, like we said, the divide of the reporters versus the pundits is, it's huge there. And it's not so easy in this economy or this time to just say, okay, I'm going to quit. Full disclosure, I left Fox in 2018. In March 2018, I did sign an end. DA and we did not part on Amicaltonsor.

Yeah, no. Wow. Diana, thank you so much for joining us. I absolutely love the Mike Flynn story and getting your perspective on the Fox thing is always welcome. We will have you back on soon. I hear through the great fine, you're working on something big. So once that's in the wild, come back and tell us about it.

Thank you, Andy. So nice to talk to you. Andy Levy. Danielle Moody. How are we kicking off this week with your fucking. that guy. Well, my fuck that guy is going to be a bunch of guys. They are a bunch of guys who want very much apparently for us to go to war with Mexico. Oh. And when I say that, they will say, oh, we don't want to go to war with Mexico. Okay. Dan Crenshaw and Mike Walts have introduced a

bill in the house seeking, according to Politico, authorization for the use of military force to, quote, put us at war with the cartels. Tom Cotton in the Senate says he has no problem with sending our troops to Mexico to go after drug lords, whether or not we have the permission of the Mexican government. That's an act of war. This is going on and on and on. Obviously, Donald Trump wants to bomb Mexico. He wanted to bomb Mexico while he was president. This seems to be some kind of rising war fever in the Republican Party. And it is, again, absolutely insane. If you bomb a country without their permission, that is an act of war. war. There's no other way really to put that. I can't think of another way. And if you want to label the

cartels as terrorist organizations, you know, fine, whatever. But if you're going to be bombing the sovereign territory of another country, don't say that you're not going to war with them. And I don't really know why you want to go to war with the people and the country on your border. That seems like a really, really dumb idea. But these are, they're dumb. people, I don't know what else to say about them. These are, these are not people who should be in charge of, you know, choosing where we're going for dinner, let alone foreign policy for the country. And apparently it won't be Chipotle. That's all I can get from. Oh, shit. But bombing is always the first solution for these people. And it's not. It shouldn't be. It can't be. And this shit has to

stop. But in the meantime, look, fuck these guys forever. Yeah. Like, Got money for war, but can't feed the poor. Yeah. Yeah. Who is your fuck that guy, Daniel? Well, he's a motherfucker that has made an appearance here before. I'll bet it. And I'm certain he'll make an appearance again.

Governor Greg Abbott. And you may say, for what reason this time, Danielle? Well, because Republicans have decided that in general, they don't really give a shit about law and order. They don't give a fuck. about the justice system. They proliferate the country with guns. And now Greg Abbott wants to pardon former Sergeant Perry, who is serving time in prison for killing a protester, a Black Lives Matter protester, so in the Kyle Writtenhouse scheme of life. And he's ordering the parole board in Texas to expedite a hearing on parole for this person so that then he can,

go ahead and pardon him. And I'm just like, they are out of their fucking minds. Do you know, like, I just don't understand. I don't understand this Republican Party. I really don't. I don't understand it. We talked about the cruelty before you have Ron DeSantis. You remember the legislation that he passed that like you could commit vehicular

homicide if protesters shut down a highway in Florida. You were able to hit them with your car and that'd be totally fine. It's like there is no both sides to this. The Republican Party wants war, not just with Mexico, but with more than half of the country. People who want to protest equity, justice, like, you know, to live in a country that lives up to its creed, they want us murdered and have no accountability whatsoever following it. It's just we live in the wild, wild west, from mass shootings to now pardoning of, murderers. Like that's, that's who the, that's who the Republican Party is. It should be very easy to win elections against these people. You would think. Yeah. You would think. So for that,

Greg Abbott, you're a piece of garbage. You continue to turn Texas into a state I will never set foot in because unfortunately, aside from Houston and Austin, which have good food, it's trash. So fuck you, Greg Abbott. Yeah. You are my fuck that guy. I just want to point out that this guy, Daniel Perry, before he left his, I think his home to get in his car, he tweeted, might kill a few people on my way to work. They are riding outside my apartment complex. A Texas jury unanimously voted to convict a white person for killing a BLM protester. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the evidence had to be pretty fucking strong for that to happen. So all of this is just...

But look, on the other hand, Tucker Carlson called for this a few days before Greg Abbott said he was going to do it. And when the marching orders come down, you know, Republican politicians have to listen. Yeah, we're living in the fuck around of times. That's where we are. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday.

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