The Daily Beast Podcast - Mika Brzezinski: I Was An ‘Idiot’ Signing My First Morning Joe Contract

Episode Date: April 18, 2021

Mika Brzezinski’s firing from CBS in 2006 was a total surprise. In this bonus episode of The New Abnormal, she tells host Molly Jong-Fast about how it all went down, why there should be a '70 Over 70' list for women, and her biggest regret from her first “Morning Joe” contract with MSNBC—especially after finding out what Joe Scarborough did with his. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another members-only beast inside episode of The Daily Beast, The New Abnormal. And we thank you so much for being here. For today's episode, we have an extra special guest with Mika Bersinski, who's the co-host to Morning Joe, as well as the author of the Know Your Value series. Welcome to the new abnormal, Mika Brzezinski. Hi, thanks for having me. Well, I'm very psyched. And one of the many things, and I may have a horse in this race, but I love your 50 over 50. Oh, yeah.

Who doesn't? I'm 42, but it's like it is just, you know, I've aged out of all the lists. Let me tell you something. This list is actually for every young woman out there. Because what we're discovering and what we're shining a light on is that there are women 50, 51, 52. That's cute. That's cute. But they're women in their 60s.

They're women in their 70s. They're women in their 80s. kicking ass, taking names, and not talking about it, not making any apologies. And quite frankly, we haven't noticed them. They're all there and they're incredible. And they don't really care that much about, you know, getting a lot of attention because they're busy running our freaking world. These women are amazing.

And there's so many more of them than you would ever imagine in politics, in finance, in business, in money everywhere. We have found that what this list is accomplishing, besides shining an important light on these incredible women who have paid it forward, but it's shining a light on this long runway that women have now because of us and because of these women who are much older than me, who are still there and flourishing. So a woman now in her 20s, I don't know about you, Molly, but in my 20s, I didn't think about my 50s as it pertained to my career. Did you?

I always only thought about my career. But no, I agree. I always thought there was sort of a clock going. Right. Exactly. You kind of looked at it as like your days are numbered. There's a clock. I mean, this is what my 20s should look like.

This is what I hope my 30s will look like. And this is, by the time I'm 40, I hope I'm doing this. But did anyone say, oh, in my 50s, I'm going to be blah, blah, blah. Or in my 60s, I'm going to be. I'm going to be totally doing it. I'm going to be killing this and that. And I'm going to be amazing at everything that I want to do. No, no one thinks 70s.

Do you think about that? Well, hello, Nancy Pelosi's 82. Yeah. All the women on my sub list, sort of like looking at different industries on Morning Joe, that we do these like mini lists, three women and an unsung hero. Like the youngest one is 57.

They're all 60, 72, 78. and unlike men, we just live longer. We have it together longer. And that runway is now, it's got a lot of tracks on it because we have, there's a lot of us driving down that long runway. I love that. So do you think 70 over 70 is coming soon? I do. I'm not doing. I love that. Will you talk to us a little bit about what know your value is? So know your value is my passion, something I started well over a decade ago when I came out with my first book called Knowing Your Value. When I got fired from CBS on my 39th birthday, it kind of built in all the sort of barriers I thought I'd face in the TV career. It sort of validated. By the time I was sporty, I'd be put out

to pasture. My best days were in my 30s and this was it. And I had actually made it to a really, I was pretty blown away by jobs I had been able to strive for at CBS. I became a contributor to 60 minutes. And you covered 9-11. I covered 9-11, which was high point and a low point on every level, but really had so much impact on my own personal life, my family, and my mental awareness about life. It was a real line for me before 9-11 and after 9-11 for so many.

reasons. But, you know, for me, CBS was home. I had my children, little girls, and I anchored the evening news on the weekend for the country, and one of, one or two of my daughters would be hiding under the desk, you know, and they skateboarded down the hall, and I was doing it all, and just thought I had found that whole pocket for working mothers, that balance or whatever the word is. And then I got fired on my ass, totally, like, totally expected. Like, I still. I still wake up going, why did that happen? Like, I was so shocked. You know, usually you can like feel a chill.

Yeah. Fired. I've seen that happen to other people. Nope. I was like, I was like, I really was just my mouth was open. And walking up 57th Street, I called my dad and cried like a little girl. Yeah. Because I really, nothing like that had ever happened.

How did it happen? How did it happen? Oh my God. It was so dramatic. So, well, I did find out later that, and I don't know if this is the reason, but I did find out later, like that next week or something, they announced they had hired Katie Couric to anchor the CBS News. I was the weekend anchor. I don't know. And on top of it, new management had come in because Memo Gay, Dan Rather, had been swept out with a bunch of people. And I was highest paid correspondent. I think I might. I might. I might. I might. I think I might. I might. I might. I. I was. Dan Rather. I had been swept out. I was swept out. I was swept out. I was. I of like just been in the wrong place, the wrong time. But of course, I still take it deeply personally and I'm sure I did something terrible. And, you know, that's how women think. That's how women think. It's all my fault and I have been fired. So that's, I mean, we literally can never let it go. While men, am I allowed to. Please, curse, do it all. Because men are like, I can't, though. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. But men are like, F you, I'm going to burn this place down. Exactly. And this is all.

your fault. Even when they're like supremely unselfaware and it's very obvious why they're getting fired. But I still think I did something. So here's how it happened. I got an email saying, Sean McManus would like to see you tomorrow at 3 p.m. I'm in D.C. covering a story. So I'm like, oh, my God, he wants to see me. Oh, I wonder what it's about. He must love my work. And so, and I like, you know, I'm super aggressive about pitching stories. I'm sure he's heard that or I wonder what I tell him about. I mean, I'm that stupid. And I go in there, do to do and it's like kind of quiet and the assistant closes the door and I'm like is this like why does he want to be alone with me like closing the door okay so me too moment like what is this right

me too was a thing then right let me tell you it was not that um he was very professional and he is very professional every network likes to tell you that your contract has to have a year window it's a You can get a no-cut deal. But of course, early on in your career, you were led to believe that every contract must have a window. So my contract had windows. And he said, we're just, we're not going to be renewing you after your window, which was like next week or something. And I'm like, am I getting promoted? Like, what do you think?

And so he's like, no, like, you know, it's just, it's not working out. And I was like, oh, my God, it's not working out. like I'm getting fired. And I remember like totally, like the blood running out of every part of like that I could feel and asking him why. He looked at this point like a character in an old fashioned sort of movie about the FBI or something. It was a window.

The window was next to him. The sun was coming in. He was sort of in silhouette at this point. and half of his face had light on it. The other half was dark, and he was just staring at me, and I wanted to know why. And this was a question he didn't have an answer for. And so he said, it is subjective.

You just have me. Well, I don't know. Apparently this would come from ups, from above, from Les Moon vests. Right. I confronted years later saying, you fired me. And he's like, I don't remember this. And I'm like, I am the most important person in the world. world. I mean, you're supposed to remember everybody, especially my. And it's like, I don't even

remember firing you so you can stop talking about me like I'm a jerk. Oh my God. He actually wanted to hire us back to CBS from Morning Doe. And this is how women again think like their world is so important. Everyone's thinking about everything and they're not. They're firing you. They're done. Bye-bye. You're supposed to be mad. So I just totally messed all. I messed up even getting fired. Wait, why? How? Quite frankly, even when you're getting fired, you should know your value and leverage the moment.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. In an ideal world, what would someone do? Just theoretically. In an ideal world, I would have not cried. In an ideal world, I wouldn't have asked in a needy way. Why? I would have asked in a more confident way.

Why the hell can do this? I'm the best thing that has ever happened to this network. I produce so many stories a year. year. I am now working on 16 minutes. You've now promoted me to the anchoring on the weekend and now you're going to yank it out. Who would come up with a stupid idea like this? Right. I'm great. You're totally missing your moment here. That would have been the right way to be. That just wasn't in me because I didn't know value. So I think this came out of a question as to what know your value. You know your value is. I mean, I just, it's so interesting and I'm like taking mental notes here for my own life.

So I like that. I love it. Yeah. It was a very big day, and I will just say that before I go back to know your value, I did walk up 57th Street, and I called my dad, and he answered the phone like he knew. Wow. My dad was weirdly ESP with me. We were so close. And on the worst moments of my life, which would be that was the first, but then the worst was telling my parents I was getting divorced. Yeah. And there was so much packed up into a moment like that where, you. you have no idea how vulnerable you feel until you're telling your parents who had a 64-year incredible, robust marriage that you have failed at the one thing they thought they taught you.

And my dad answered both of those calls. And I think there was one other and I can't. My boyfriend broke up with me of seven years, like years before all that. And he answered the phone. Like he was right there and he was ready. And I remember him telling him. me that he said, oh, Mika, again, I thought they were so proud of me and I was sort of like the runt of the family that did badly in school and it was hard to educate. So my job at CBS

was something that I thought made them so proud. So I was so horrified. And he immediately started telling me about how he didn't get tenure at Harvard and how somehow there was a parallel between the two and that I was going to be fine and that it was going to be the best thing that ever happened to me. And somehow he was prophetic. But he said he loved me so much. And he just knew when something was wrong. And he was right there whenever I had that call to make. So it's kind of an interesting, I remember even being so upset about being fired and going home and lying to my kids about it because I like was horrified. I was embarrassed. And they busted me too, by the way. But I just remember even being outside of myself and going, wow, my dad is amazing. Like, he so knows what to say.

Yeah. And when to say it. And he's so ready to catch me when I fall. So that's just kind of like, I don't know, I'm so lucky to have had a dad like that. Yeah. But anyhow, I still kept crying and lied to my kids and didn't know my value every step of the way. I mean, when I told my kids this was great news that I was leaving CBS. They called bullshit on that. My oldest daughter. Were they teenagers? That sounds like teenagers.

No, Amelia was 10 and Carly was eight. Oh, wow. And Amelia was like, no, no, no, no. You can't. I said I was leaving CBS. I couldn't tell them I was fired. She was like, you can't leave. That's why the lady at the library likes me.

You can't leave. Oh, no. And Carly got really quiet and like kind of turned her back, turned to her side. and she got quiet. She was quiet all night. And I was like, no, it's good news. Mommy's going to be with you. And I think they both were horrified at that.

But the next day, since I was home, the school called. They never used to call me. They'd call Jim, their dad. And they were like, there's an issue with Carly. And I'm like, I'm here. I got this. I'm so available. And I jumped into my car and ran to school.

I was like sprinting down the hall like Superwoman. And she was sitting down. next to these little lockers they have for eight-year-olds with her teacher. And her teacher, I was always like, damn, she's so perfect. But Carly was looking down and the teacher squatted down next to me and Carly in between us and said Carly has told me that you're leaving CBS. And I'm like, it's not public that, but okay. Because she's really upset. And I looked at Carly and I looked at the teacher and I'm like, are you judging me? I could tell you it was totally. But anyhow, I turned back to Carly. I'm like, honey, this is.

is good news. Like, Mommy is going to be home with you. And she looked up at me and she said, Mommy, you can't leave CBS. You love it so much. And her big blue eyes were full of tears. And she like totally nailed me to the wall. And that, of course, is when I really started crying. Yeah. And the teacher is really judging at this point. Like, who's this crazy lady? He's now weeping here. She's supposed to be making her daughter feel better. And I was losing a big part my identity and I was struggling with it. And nobody knew that more than Carly. Yeah. Nobody knew that more than my kids. And your kids need to see you when you're down. They don't need you to be lying to them. And it was a big lesson for me that I, you know, you got to like let them see

you fall for them to really enjoy the moments. So I didn't know my value in that. And so this is leading to know your value, which I ultimately couldn't find a job for a year because, you know, I wore, I'm fired, written on my forehead to every job interview I went to and figured in every job interview I went to that they would want to know why I was fired and I didn't have an answer. And it was all bad because I didn't know my value. And I finally took a day rate freelance job at MSNBC. I couldn't have been happier to get it, by the way. It was filling in on cut-ins.

And it was a year later, I'd been offered a big PR job and turned it down because I realized I just wasn't giving myself a chance to do what I love to do. And so I called MSNBC and said, I know what you think I might want since I was at 60 minutes and blah, blah, blah, but I want to know what you have available for me to work now. And they said, we don't have anything that you'd want. I said, you're not listening to me. I said, tell me what you have. And they said, well, we have freelance reading cut-ins on the overnights.

And I was like, I'll take it. And they're like, it's a couple hundred dollars a day. It's a day rate. We'd call you. I said, I'll take it. and they were like, okay. So I started kind of back, you know, in a different place. And I was so happy to be walking into a building going beep with an ID.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I was really, really grateful to be there. And cut-ins led to more cut-ins, led to hosting shows, led to fill-in hosting shows, led to, oh, my God, you're really good at this, Mika. And I'm like, duh. You're like, you said. I did for 10 years ago for you guys before I went to MSNBC. I did a three-hour show for you. That's the cold homepage.

And you don't even remember because this freaking business is such a day trader that you don't remember yesterday. But I still love you. By then they were auditioning for Morning Joe. And the rest is history. I love this story because I had a similar story when I went back to writing after I had all my kids, where I went back to this place I had written for when I was 13. And I just said, tell me what you want me to. to do and that's how I got back to writing. So I love those kind of stories. And there's a certain

humility there that I feel like men would never do. No. But know your value happened because there was too much humility. Like we take it on too much and we don't see our value through the dark days. And when the show started, I did it again, Molly. I didn't see my value when my stock was up. So the show starts, morning Joe starts. It's great. It's fuzzy. Everyone's talking about it. It's like the political show to watch. It's taking off, right? I'm booking the show. I'm producing the show. I'm working collaboratively with Chris Lick and Joe to really make the show great, right? Yeah. I'm a big part of the show, right? Willie is a part of the show, right? Mike Barnacle's part of the show, right? All these guys start negotiating their deals, and they hand me a contract, and I'm like,

yes, where do I sign? I'm so glad. And I'm like, such an idiot. So, yeah. I'm like, such an idiot. I signed this contract and I noticed that Willie and Joe, like, they don't even show up. Like, their negotiations are going badly. They literally say, okay, I won't be there tomorrow. And I'm like, how do you do? Molly, can you imagine a woman doing that ever? So I realized I signed my first offer. Like, I grabbed it, grabbed it away from the person and signed it. Well, these guys held out for six months and waited. And you know what Joe did? He said, you know, this guy, Imus, who we're replacing, he had the highest ratings of the network. You were replacing Don Imus?

Yeah. Wow, that's another planet. Exactly. And so what Joe said to them was, I can beat his ratings. And so that's why you need to pay me a lot of money. And they were like, no, you can't. And he was like, no, I can. Now, I'm thinking to myself, why is he saying that?

He's literally pulling it out of his, like, how do you know you're going to beat Imis? and that's what guys do. They make up shit. They make it up. I'm like, gosh, darn it, I hope I can do the best ever for you. And meanwhile, guys are like, I can reinvent the wheel. And I can beat Imus. And so he said, you don't believe me?

You don't believe me? Let me help you out here. Fine. Pay me this base rate. But if I beat Imus, I need you to give me this large sum of money. every quarter that I beat Imus. Huge amount of money. And so, of course, the people at NBC are like, okay, yeah, you'll beat Amis.

Okay, we'll sign on that. Guess what we've been doing for 13 years. And since day one, beating Imis. Guys, like, they negotiate the moon for themselves. And women, we, like, come into it like, I'm hoping you'll like me, but maybe you won't. So, you know. And so that's how, no, you're very. you came, because I had to fix this contract that I'd signed. I had to fix it because it wasn't

going to work for me, working next to all these guys who got their great deals and my really bad one that I cut for myself by signing it. And so I went back in there five different times, five different ways, wrote a book about the process, and the books got such an unbelievable reaction that I decided to make events and corporate offerings and a whole empire. based on knowing your value and teaching women how to know your value and communicate it effectively. I've written like five know your value books now, know your value, grow your value, come back careers, earn it. You name it. I've written it and I've got more coming because the message keeps growing as equal pay continues to be an issue as we look into the impact on different minority

groups and how that's even worse and women over 50 and how the advice for them is different. And so I've built something out of my own, like, inability to communicate effectively and learned how to do it. It was later in life. And quite frankly, it was someone who was very skilled, very educated. And I still didn't know my value to save my life at the age of 40. So I realized this is an area where women really do need a leg up. And they need that advice. They need the constant reaffirmation.

They need the confidence. and they need the tools to get it. They are simple tools, but we need them. That is so fascinating and interesting. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science. We'll help us understand what's happening to our country and the world.

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