The Daily Beast Podcast - Mitch McConnell Is a ‘Spigot for Dark Money’ w/ Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse is not pleased with Mitch McConnell’s handling of dark money. He came on the pod to explain why he’s pinning the lack of dark money legislation on McConnell as well as what’s happening with climate change legislation. Plus, author Wes Moore tells TNA co-host Molly-Jong-Fast why he’s running for Governor of Maryland and what he wants to change. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Zhang Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic Invo. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objective. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart, conversations with the wisest and funniest and funniest people in science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down, and on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. Hey, everyone, we have some big, big news. I want to give you all a heads up that bonus episodes of the new abnormal will soon be available publicly. This also means we're changing things a bit on our Sunday episodes.

They're going to be in our public feed, and we're going to have a little bit more content each week, since you keep asking us for more new abnormal and we're listening. So be sure to check your favorite podcatcher on Sundays for a whole new. format of the new abnormal episodes. Okay, on with this awesome show. Senator Sheldon White House of Rhode Island will come and talk to us about dark money and lots of issues happening right now in the Senate. Then we'll talk to Westmore, who's seeking

the Democratic nomination of her governor in the state of Maryland. But first, let's have some fun. Andy Levy. Molly Jong Fest. So, I don't know if you know this, but one of the most conservative of conservative pundits

has decided that America's largest foreign policy issue is our neighbors to the north. No, no. Yes, Candice Owens wants Joe Biden to send troops into Canada to defeat radical leftist Justin Trudeau. I wish I were kidding. I wish you were kidding too, but unfortunately I'm online enough to know that you're not. So, well, the rest of the world waits and worries about Russia invading Ukraine. Candice Owens has had the hot take that, in fact, what should be happening is that America should be invading Canada, thus showing she has never seen Canadian Bacon. Or the South Park movie.

Yeah. Wasn't that the entire plot of the South Park movie? Yes. Invading Canada is an important American trope. It is. It's a cultural touch. Stone. Exactly. But, you know, I still think it's likely a bad move for any number of reasons. Really? Name two reasons it's a bad move, Molly. I bet you can't. I tend not to want to get over my skis when it comes to foreign policy, but I'm just going to say here that invading a country that wishes us no harm or 12 people live might not be to protect

a bunch of unvaccinated truckers, many of whom are not. either truck or nor unvaccinated, seems like a losing gamut. Does it? If you think about it, wouldn't that make it a lot easier to win? Yes, it's a good point. I always think it's funny because I'm always impressed that these right-wing pundits know about Canada, because they're always so focused on Mexico. Well, I have noticed that they're now calling it, what is it, Justin Trudeau Castro they're calling him now? In another one of their unbelievably clever. clever inventive and clever naming schemes.

He's now Justin Trudeau Castro. Castro, yeah, they're geniuses. Yeah, no, they really are. It's like, I don't, I mean, the amount of time they must take to think of these things is just unreal. And remember, last week we had Jeet here here, Jeet here, who said that the Wright has this fantasy that Justin Trudeau is really the illegitimate child of Castro. Yes, exactly. It's Barack Hussein Obama all over again, except that they do have this cozy little fantasy that somehow he's Vidal Castro's son, which is just like, it's just we laugh at it. And it's just weird because these are the kinds of things that you could just laugh at because they were harmless. And now we have Candace Owens, who is who she is who she is, but she's taken seriously by the right-wing journal. sphere or whatever you want to call it. And here she is wanting us to invade America's hat,

which just seems like, why, why, why are we invading our hat? It doesn't make sense. I mean, these people, it's the C-PAC-Nization of the Republican Party, right? The fringe is now the center. The proud boys are the fringe, and Mercedes and Match Lap are the center of the Republican Party. No, that's a good point. And I'm fairly certain. that Candace has a prominent speaking part at CPAC that's coming up later this week. And

should we talk about that for a little bit? I mean, I just want to know why the working class hates the Democrats. Luckily, I can attend a panel hosted by one J.D. Vance. Ivy League graduate

Erica Bowling and some other people I've never heard of to talk about why the working class hate the Democrats. Look, I'm just, I'm happy to see Eric Bowling spending less time with his phone. That's good for everybody. My God, I didn't even realize that was a panel that was going on. I was too mesmerized by the fact that Alex Berenson, possibly the dumbest COVID commentator in the world, is on a panel with Papa John. What is that panel called? Like, what the left won't let you read about COVID, won't let you say about. Won't let you say about Yeah.

Yeah, reading. Yeah, reading's really trope here. But I just, the one I want to see right after why the working class hates the Democrats is Fire Fauci, starring Todd Starns, Dr. Sebastian Gorka. Just kidding, he's not a doctor. And still under FBI investigation, Matt Gates. That has been an amazing trio. Isn't that amazing? That's the Peter, Paul, and Mary of Seaback or some more topical reference.

I'm telling you, though, I think I can top it with lock her up, comma, for real. Hosted by Cash Patel and Devin Broken Brain Nunes. At least Devin doesn't have anything to worry about in terms of, you know, his financial ventures. Everything is going well with all the stuff. He's talking, oh, I didn't even notice this. There's a tribute to Andrew Breitbart, Charlie Kirk. Every year. James O'Keefe. Oh, my God.

Every year. Oh, come on. That literally Andrew Breitbart is their God. No, I know. I mean, look, I knew Andrew well. And I often wonder what he would think of what's going on now. And I've had people say to me, oh, he would not have been part of this. And my response is always, eh, wouldn't he have been?

I think he would have been, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that he would have been, he would be president today. He might be. He might be. Or at least heading the RN. I mean, at the very least, he would be the head of the RNC, I think. Right. I mean, they put Nixon back on President's Day on the thing of the best Republican presidents.

They had Nixon, Reagan, W at Trump, of course. I love that. I love that. What Molly's talking about is there was a tweet from the GOP official account, I guess it was. Yeah. And it was happy President's Day to these presidents. And one of them was Nixon, and it was like not to Biden, I guess. They had a big X over Biden or something like that.

So like they left out some actually good Republicans. Yeah. Well, a couple of things surprised me. First of all, I thought the modern GOP hated George W. Bush. And yet there he was on there. And of course, as you mentioned, Nixon was on there. So we've now, I'm so glad we've actually reached the part where they are reclaiming Nixon. Like, it was a long time coming.

And it's good to, I think honestly it's good to see because it's been bubbling up for so long. It's like a sneeze. It's like when you really have to sneeze and it sucks. Like, if you can't sneeze, it really sucks. And this is like the big, this was the big Nixon sneeze. And they finally just were like, yes, we did it. We got Nixon back. You know, he's back, baby.

And I'm so happy to see it. I also think with Nixon, if you're going to go along with Trump, then you have to go. I mean, what Nixon did was not, was like a 15th as bad as what Trump did. Oh, absolutely. That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm honestly glad that they just, they've just come out and been like, yep, Nixon, he's one of ours. He was great.

He didn't resign in disgrace or anything. No, blah, no, no. That was some other guy. Another important thing. So CPAC is going to be amazing. We will have our correspondence on the ground there, which will be neither of us. But we will watch it on our devices. I think in the CPAC stream of consciousness, a lot of these CPAC speakers have made up their minds about Russia invading Ukraine.

and they feel that it's okay, pretty, pretty good. Right? They can happen. Yeah. I've never seen so many people who claim to be anti-war, which is what the Republican Party claims to be these days, and these Tucker Carlson and his ilk are running around pretending to be anti-war now. But they're so excited at the prospect of Putin invading Ukraine,

although to them, I guess it's not an invasion. It's a reclamation project. I think is how they look at it. It is just absolutely amazing to watch these people get completely cucked by Putin. Yeah. I mean, I also think, like, they're anti-war, right? But they're America first. But they're America first, but they think Russia should be able to, like, democracy last.

I mean, basically, right? Like, the idea is that democracies don't really matter. And you should just let Putin do whatever because who cares, right? No, absolutely. And but, but they admire Putin so much. And I mean, look, this, you know, this is nothing new. Trump admired Putin, you know, Trump was basically licking Putin's boots. And so it's not a big surprise that all these other people are too.

And it's like, you know, bullies recognize a bigger bully. And, you know, that's exactly what is going on here. You know, you had, you know, all these people who just who get off on, on being a bully. recognize that right now in the world, Putin is the alpha bully. And they can't help but respect that. They so obviously wish that we had more of a Putin-esque government. But at the same time, again, if we had a Putinesque government, we really would be invading Canada. And they claimed to be anti-war. Yes. We would be invading Canada. It's true. I mean, we absolutely would be. And probably and Mexico. Yes. Well, we'd be invading Canada because of the misinformation spread

on the internet yesterday that Canadian police hurt a protester, right? Which turned out not to be true. Killed, killed a protest. Killed a protester, which turned out to not be true because they're Canadians and they don't kill people. They're nice. That started with Fox News correspondent, shockingly. Yeah, that was Sarah Carter said that a The Canadian police killed protesters. Now, we know, I mean, look, I don't trust police reporting often, but on this case, she was absolutely wrong. But, you know, the result was a right-wing rage and the desire to invade Canada. Yeah, I mean, her tweet got, you know, retweeted and quote-tweeted all over the place by the usual right-wing nudge jobs, Benny Johnson, and who I assume, cut and copy and paste did someone else's apology tweet later for being wrong.

But anyway, yes, we're going to go to war with Canada. Very excited about that. And, you know, maybe the right is acting so crazy because they can't get on truth social. Well, yeah, that is, I mean, truth social is the new Trump-backed social media site. That is run by, as was alluded to earlier, that is run by. Because who better to trust your personal information to than, Evan Nunes. Yeah.

Must have been why the launch was so good. The launch, let's just say it didn't go so well. And there are like hundreds of thousands of people apparently on a waiting list because they can't get, they can't get onto the app and they can't register. And I think Nunez now said they hope to have it up and running smoothly by the end of March, which is, you know, a month from now. You don't really want a month of your app not being up properly. But look, they have Gab.

They have Gab. and they've getter. Yeah. So I guess they'll have to stay there until truth can get up. And then the first thing you do when you launch something and you come up with a logo is you check to make sure you're not infringing anybody's rights with the name of your app or the logo. And Truth Social didn't know that, I guess, because their symbol, which is like a stylized tea, is very similar to what is it, a British trucking company? I don't know. The less I know about truth social, the better.

But I think that the important thing about truth social is that it doesn't work. Yeah. Oh, it's a British solar company called Trailer. And they now say that they are seeking legal advice to see what they can do to protect their brand, which apparently they don't want affiliated with Donald Trump's non-working social media site for some reason. Crazy talk, I tell you. Somali. Yes, Andy.

What's going on with your boy, Josh Mandel? Just because he's Jewish? This is anti-Semitism right here. Yes, exactly. This Ohio primary, Republican primary, continues to be just a race to the absolute bottom. Josh Mandel debases himself, and he stays in the lead, whereas J.D. Vance debases himself and still can't get more than 8%. Vance is going to be at CPAC. I have not seen Mandel's name on that list.

I mean, they must have asked him, right? And so he said no, or do you think they didn't ask him? That CPAC list is someone who has gone there. It ends up changing a lot. Yeah, that's true. So I think he was there last year, so it's a pretty good bet that he will be there this year. I have an alternate theory that after Swin's reporting that Donald Trump keeps talking about Josh Mandel's weird sexual proclivities. Right.

That maybe Donald Trump's a little bad. that he wasn't abided to them, so he asked him to disinvite him. That's entirely possible. Yeah, I think more likely scenario that was that he'll probably show up there. I like Jesse's story. Yeah, it's not that likely, though. I also think, like, Trump is not. I mean, I don't even think Trump knows that he's going to CPAC yet.

That's true. Don't give him too much credit. Yeah, there was a good piece in Politico on Mandel that sort of talked to all these people from his past. and all of whom, almost without fail, said that basically, you know, Mandel's journey from sort of this moderate, let's all get along Republican to what he is now, which is what's the term for a piece of shit Republican? Fascious. Yeah. Piece of shit. Sudo-fascist Republican.

Like they basically all said that while this wasn't the guy that they knew who they all said was very nice and whatever, they also, like to a person, every single one of them said that. Basically, Josh Mandel is an empty vessel who will do whatever it takes to get elected and to get ahead. And it was just absolutely stunning to see every single person they talked to. People who knew him in college, people who knew him when he was first starting his career, all say the same exact thing. Like one person said, Josh is not a different person than he was back then. He's the same person. He's just spouting off completely different things because he thinks that'll get him ahead. Yeah, and it probably will.

Yeah, it probably will. And it's like it's just so sad though. And I mean, I don't feel bad for him because, you know, fuck him. But I don't understand how you go to bed every day and wake up being like that and have it not. Are you just completely soulless? Is that what it is? I don't understand how you can do that and look at yourself in the mirror and go about your day and think I am doing what I was meant to do on God's earth. I think a lot of people think, well, I'll get to power and then I won't.

keep on like this. People think, you know, well, we'll win and then we'll worry about governing. And then what happens, I think, is once they win, you know, it's like Susan Collins syndrome. They just, they can't do, you know, they just can't stand up to it because they don't want to lose power. I mean, I can see very easily, like, you think about how many Republican advisors are right now, saying to normal sort of centrist Republicans, maybe not our first choice, but not crazy lunatics, Just do this and do that, and then you'll win, and then we'll worry about the other stuff later. I think for a lot of them, they do say that. They say, well, we'll do whatever it takes to win, because the important thing is that I'm able to get there and, you know, then operate the levers of power in the correct way.

And I think very few of them actually do that, unfortunately. Yeah, no, I agree. And what you end up with is more of like the Ted Cruz types who, once they get there, you know, decide that they're going to become even worse people. Because maybe they'll be president that way. In the political piece, they talked about, they had a clip of him or a quote from him in an earlier election saying, you know, he thought the principle of separation of church and state was very important. And now, of course, his big thing, he just like within the last month just said, there's no such thing as separation between church and state. I have to say, though, my favorite part of that story is like he doesn't believe in church and state. He's an Orthodox Jew.

Like, you guys are going to love Orthodox Judaism. Like, you know, like, the thing that I think is interesting that's happening is that, so MAGA has decided that if they pick people who are Jewish or who are black, then you can't, you know, or a Latino that you can't say MAGA is racist. So ultimately, these people are going to be twisting themselves in a knot when the whole ethos of MAGA is racism. Absolutely. And, you know, they're pro-white privilege. They're pro-white. There's just no getting around that. And they're pro-Christian. So this is going to be hilarious. I know. And look, there is a drain of Orthodox Judaism that is very conservative. And, you know, as a lot of very strong religious people are often conservative, not always, but often. And so I guess maybe he thinks he's fitting in with that. He's the same age as Molly and I, which means he was a teenager when the movie election came out. And I think he saw Tracy Flick as an aspirational character.

He might be right about that. I was like two or three when that movie came out, so I don't remember it. Oh, shut the fuck up. Don't ever say that again. I think it is, I think the relevant fact is like MAGA is going to have to embrace diversity, whatever that means. And that will be a fascinating turn of events. Yeah.

They do. I mean, whatever that looks like. Well, I think what it looks like is you have diamond. as Secretary of Transportation and Silk as Secretary of Education. Hod. She gets hard. How she gets hard, okay. Hey folks, if you haven't heard every single week we do a special bonus episode for Beast Inside,

the Daily Beast Membership Program. Sometimes we interview senators like Corey Booker or the folks who explain what's happening behind the scenes in media like Jim Acosta or Soladadad O'Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner. and sometimes we just have friends around to analyze what's happening in the news. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a beast inside member where you'll support the beast's fearless journalism, as well as getting full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member, head to new abnormal.

That's new abnormal.thedailybeast.com. Sheldon Whitehouse is the junior senator from Rhode Island. Welcome back to the new abnormal, Sheldon Whitehouse. Thank you. Wonderful to be with you. Well, we're happy to have you back. The reason why I knew we had to have you back right away was because you've been talking about dark money. Can you talk about what is happening now with dark money? Because it's continued in weird and strange and interesting ways. Well, unfortunately, because Democrats did not really effectively stamp out dark money when it was a small fire, it's now a raging prairie fire. And it controls a great number of aspects of American public life. It controls, for instance, the Republican Party. It controls the Supreme Court now because of the dark money funding behind the last three nominations and the dark money funding for blocking. Garland. It has been behind the wave of voter suppression laws passed by Republican state legislatures around the country. They actually admitted it on tape. And for a long time,

it's been the force behind climate denial. The reason that the vaunted government of the United States of America has been crippled and disabled on climate change has been the nefarious effects of a lot of dirty fossil fuel dark money. So it creeps up all over the place and it's really become a corrupting scourge. Can you talk us through exactly how dark money affects the lack of climate legislation? Well, I'll tell you a story. I got to the Senate and was sworn in in January of 2007. So I was there for all of 2007, all of 2008, all of 2009. And we had a lot of bipartisan climate bills kicking around. We had bipartisan climate hearings in my Environment Public Works Committee. We had a Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, who had a solid climate platform.

And that all went to hell instantly in January of 2010, which coincided exactly with the Citizens United decision, which opened the floodgates for unlimited money into politics and allowed the unlimited money sources to hide who they were behind a whole bunch of front groups. So the fossil fuel industry was able to essentially flood the Republican Party with money and also flood it with threats and promises related to how money would secretly be spent. And you saw bipartisanship die overnight on climate. And now for a decade, it's been dark money funded groups that have put out fake climate denial news that have propped up fake climate denial news, that have propped up fake climate denial scientists and that have rewarded climate denial politicians and punished Republicans who

tried to get sensible on this subject. So it's a very, very sorted tale, unfortunately. How could this be unraveled? I think it was Justice Brandeis who said, sunlight is the best disinfectant. What makes all this unlimited spending work for special interest is that they can hide that it's them. If at the end of the day, when they were putting $50 million into a political campaign, if they had to say this is ExxonMobil money, that would really affect how people perceived what was happening. When it comes through donors' trust or Americans for Prosperity or other front groups,

it hides the true impact of who's doing what. So transparency and disclosure are really big, and at least nominally, the Supreme Court in Citizens United said that disclosure was okay. But of course, the dark money interest want more than anything else to protect dark money. So their number one legislative purpose is to prevent the Disclose Act from passing. And they have enlisted Mitch McConnell as their eager handmaiden in making sure that it does not pass. It seems to me that in some ways Mitch McConnell is in a vulnerable position because of what's happening right now with Trumpism and the Republican Party. Do you get that sense?

I mean, he has these, you know, there are these Republican seats and these primary candidates, some of them are pretty outside the norm. Do you get the sense that he sees that or now? Yeah, I think he does see that as a risk, but set against that risk is the support of the dark money operation, which also buys him enormous support in his caucus because he's now the spigot for dark money in Senate races. We're now at a stage where there's often more dark money spent by groups in a race than there is by the actual campaign itself. So if you're a person who can control a 20 or 30 million dollar spend into a Senate race, you're absolutely

essential to that senator. And so around his caucus, Mitch McConnell becomes indispensable as the spigot, again, if you will, the person who decides who gets the big money and what they have to do in order to make sure that they get it. The big outside dark money, not just campaign contributions, but, you know, when you see those creepy ads that go up and, you know, this is lost you by Americans for peace and puppies and prosperity. That's right. It's never really for a piece, is it? Or puppies. And prosperity only for a very few who are already to have a lot of prosperity. Where are we with climate change, climate bills right now?

I mean, are we just completely stalled? We are at the moment completely stalled. However, the reconciliation measure is alive in the Senate. It is like an empty wagon. The wagon can move out of the Senate with a simple majority under reconciliation rules. And so things that fit within reconciliation rules, which a lot of our climate stuff does, can go into that wagon. And we have from now until September 30th to move. that wagon out of the Senate and get something over to the House to pass before it evaporates

under Budget Committee rules. So while nothing is happening right now, there's a lot of effort to try to figure out how we can get our 50 Democrats aligned on good climate measures. And to be blunt, Senator Manchin has enormous role in all of this. And he has said that a lot of the Finance committee tax measures that are really solid and strong on climate. He can agree with in support. He's been very complimentary and has had a big effect on how we do the methane rule, working with Chairman Carper and EPW. And we are continuing to have conversations about carbon pricing, which is obviously the thing that makes the biggest difference in carving a pathway to climate safety. So it ain't over. Okay. In previous Republican administrations, when a parliamentarian, or at least this

happened once. Parliamentarian didn't do what the Republicans wanted. They fired the parliamentarian. Yep. Do you feel that Democrats could do a little more of this? That was a pretty bloodthirsty thing to do. My recollection is that they fired the parliamentarian so that under the Senate rules for reconciliation, they could raise the deficit. Yeah. It used to be that a budget reconciliation measure had to reduce the deficit. They wanted it read that all it has to do is affect. the deficit. And then they could put through big tax cuts for corporations and billionaries, which they did. And of course, it raised the deficit. And that's how they pull that stunt off.

In order to do that, you really have to have a united caucus. As you know, we tried as hard as we could to try to find a way around the Senate rules for a really important voting rights measure, which actually had inside of it the disclose bill would have been really powerful. And we just couldn't round up the votes. So if you can't round up the votes, it's kind of doesn't matter what gateway you're, you're trying to get through. You need 50. And we couldn't find 50 for any gateway, let alone something as blood curdling and bloodthirsty is firing, you know, a very good, hardworking parliamentarian. We don't have actually a problem with playing by the rules, as they are as to what goes into the bill. The parliamentary task there, I think is not a problem.

It's the Senate rules for other things and trying to get 50 people agreed on what goes into the wagon before it, you know, vanishes like the Cinderella's coach. And there's a lot of Beltway people who say it's not just Mansion and Cinema. It's actually Mansion and Cinema and eight other people they're running cover for. A lot depends on what the question is. If the question is, should we get rid of the filibuster, then I think you've got a lot of caution about that. But as you start to narrow the question and focus on some of the tricks and traps that Republicans can use to box things in so that you have to go to cloture and get the 60 votes as opposed to simply, say, holding the floor for a couple of days and, you know, waiting until they've exhausted themselves and then call the vote. That's where I think there's a lot more room to maneuver. And as you saw, we actually voted on the measure to find a way for the voting rights bill to get to the floor.

and we got 48 Democratic votes. So we know that there are at least 48 Democratic votes for that strategy. And there are other strategies that can be deployed. I think the hardest strategy of all and the one that creates the most consternation is just let's chuck the filibuster because we worry, I think, justifiably about what happens when the shoes on the other foot. Let's talk about voting rights because that does seem like we're seeing in Texas real serious assault on mail-in ballots and, and we're seeing other places drop boxes, and clearly Republicans have decided that it's easier just to make it so people can't vote

than to try to have popular legislation. Where are you with this? The complaints that I heard about this original voting rights bill that didn't get all the votes was that I live in New York City, we have federalized elections. Like that's not so great either. And look, it's good because everybody can vote and there's money for voting,

but it's bad in the fact that our tax dollars go to pay for campaign ads, seems insane to me. You know, do you see a slim down voting bill getting passed? And doesn't that seem like a very important thing to get on? You know, again, you get the problem of how you get the votes for it. We had 50 votes for a slim down voting measure, but the Republicans filibustered it. And we didn't have the votes to find a way around the filibuster. So we're kind of back in that same position, no matter how you recraft the voting rights measure. So at least in the short, short run, you know, I think the voting rights attack almost always doesn't actually take away

somebody's ability to vote. What it does is it makes it harder for them to be able to vote and spread across a large population. The Republicans figured out that if you can discourage five percent or 10 percent of a particular population from voting, particularly in a close state, you now win just because people got exhausted. And the way that you overcome that is with voter energy, which I think is something we're going to have to work very hard to drum up in the coming election to make sure that people know that the Republicans have gone out of their way to make it hard for them to vote. So they think when they're going to the ballot, well, damn it, nobody's going to take away my right.

I don't care how long I have to stand in the sun. I don't care if nobody can come and bring me water. I am going to make sure that my vote is heard. And we saw a lot of that spirit in Georgia in the Senate elections that Assault and Warnock won. So it's not unrealistic. It just takes a lot more effort. The center of gravity goes in their favor. And we've got to work much, much harder to restore, you know, the equilibrium.

So we can get around it that way. I think also we need to show who's behind it. This is not something that appeared spontaneously in all these state legislatures. big dark money forces fed through Alec and through state policy council groups, pre-packaged bills, designed to create the most advantage for Republicans in that particular state. And I think once people see it as a big common scheme, it gives us a better chance to fight it and to rally people in anger about what was done. Unfortunately, you've got a court that is bending over backwards, try to make sure the Republicans win elections.

There are things that Biden could do to be more aggressive. And also, I mean, the idea of what about like making Election Day of Federal Holiday? Yeah, I think things like that are, you know, very good ideas and contribute to people who are stressed with work and schedules and maybe even multiple shifts on Election Day to be able to actually get out and have a chance to cast their ballots. So I think ideas like that are good ones. But if you put together a meaningful package, then the Republicans will come out to oppose it for that very reason. They actually don't want to have us succeed at measures that bring more people to the ballot.

So Mitch McConnell and the people behind him are going to be looking at what they think, how effective or how effectual they think measures will be. And if they think, oh, this will actually help people we don't want to vote to come out and vote, then we're going to be against. it. So you're back to the original problem. Ultimately, you can't find 10 sane Republicans to support anything. And so you can't pass things if you don't have the votes. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, there's some Republicans who are a little bit horrified by the prospect that Trump actually tried to take the election using the various tricks that he tried. And I think there's a possibility of the election law being modified in a bipartisan way to be determined. There's a bipartisan conversation happening. and it's sometimes hard to tell when people involved in bipartisan conversation are just there to be theatrically part of a bipartisan conversation and don't really care whether something gets done or whether they're really determined to get something done.

And so that usually is determined by outcome and we don't have an outcome yet. So it's too early to judge. But there is an area where I think there's going to be a better chance for bipartisanship because I think there's a broader agreement that what we don't want is the kind of disruption. and dissent, not dissent like an opinion, but descent like down, into authoritarian election stealing that we think of as happening in countries very different from ours. Yeah. I mean, that does seem kind of. I mean, it's quite scary. Do you feel that Biden is not pushing hard enough on executive orders?

He has not had the same kind of zeal. He did a bunch at the beginning, but hasn't as much. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see. I mean, I think the White House made a big play on doing big bills, and they got off to quite a good start with the American Rescue Plan and with the bipartisan infrastructure bill. So I think they took a big bet that we'd be able to hang together in the Senate and produce a serious build back better bill. And when we failed at that, I think that has caused, first of all, a recommitment to try to figure out what can be done with that reconciliation measure. but also a reconsideration of whether that was really the right strategy and whether a stronger offense and stronger executive rulemaking and executive order, just a more aggressive posture

by the White House is called for. And I think that's a decision that is theirs to make. And I hope they make the right one. I know they're thinking about it. We're going into these midterm elections that a lot of times midterms are bad for the party in power. What do you think Democrats should, their message should be coming into these midterms? Well, I think people are worried about the economy and I think they're anxious about

baseline things. They didn't have to worry about like getting their kids off to school. And I think continued positive outcomes in putting the pandemic behind us and continued economic growth and improved price management through better supply chains and lower pharmaceutical costs and lower child care and elder care costs. and things like that can help households balance their budgets. I think there's a lot of kind of fundamentally eating potato stuff. I also think there's a really basic difference between the parties in terms of the power of oligarchs and billionaires and special interests behind the party.

And I think that's a huge difference and it's one that the public really cares about. And it's one that we have not paid anywhere near enough attention to. And it's the difference that a vote on the Disclose Act will make really apparent. So I hope in addition to solving some of the economic anxiety and COVID anxiety, we also come into a much more aggressive fighting stance about who's trying to corrupt this great republic, using the Republican Party as their while hiding themselves behind a huge array of dark money front groups. That's a story we're telling. Yeah. Well, that's a good story and good luck to you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks, Molly. Always wonderful to be with you. I appreciate it. Wes Moore is seeking the Democratic nomination for governor in Maryland and the author of The Other West Moore. Welcome to the new abnormal, Wes Moore. It is so good to be with you. I'm excited to be part of the new abnormal.

Well, we're excited to have you, and I wanted to have you because of a number of reasons, one of which is that you're running for governor of Maryland. I am. And Maryland is a state that's very important to all of us because of any number of reasons, but also you have just an incredible history and we went to the same high school and and and you also, you're super accomplished. First, I want you to explain to our listeners why you're running for Governor of Maryland. Well, first, I'm so excited to be on the pod with you. So sincerely, I'm a fan and thank you. And I'm running for Governor of Maryland because

the future of this place matters deeply to me. This is where I was born. I'm a third generation Marylander. It's where I've had some of my most amazing and traumatic memories. It's where I built my career. It's where I came of age. It's where I fell in love. And it's a state that is a remarkable place. It's just remarkably inequitable. And it doesn't have to be that way. I think about the fact that we are a state that is the second wealthiest state in the entire country. But also, you know, we also have some of the deepest pockets of impoverished neighborhoods anywhere in this country. where we have some of the best tech companies in the world. And we have children who still don't have broadband and Wi-Fi.

We have some of the best medical institutions in the world. People travel from around the globe to come get treated at institutions in Maryland. And we have people who live down the street from them who can't afford to get treated in them. And this is this moment where I have found myself leading in a variety of different sectors, whether it's a private sector or a nonprofit. profit. And I feel like right now we have a moment that we can create a government that actually meets people and does what governments intended to do. And so that's why I'm excited to get into this racial government. Is it okay if we talk about your academic career because you have

this academic career that's like I relate to, except that I wasn't a Rhodes Scholar, nor did I get really good grades in college to watch. I don't relate to it at all. But you have this academic career that a lot of people do where there was a misstep. And a misstep that in many ways where we find ourselves in all of us, right, as kids, where it's single steps in the wrong direction or almost accidental steps in the right direction that can change the entire trajectory of your life. And, you know, I first, you know, so the school that, you know, that we, we both proudly attended in New York. I mean, I got there. I got there actually via tragedy where, you know, when I was when I was, when I was, just a few months for my fourth birthday, my father went to the hospital and his face was unshaven and his clothes were disheveled. When he got to the hospital, there was assumptions about whether or not

he had insurance. And when my mom arrived to the hospital, they asked her questions like, is he prone to exaggeration? And they released my father from the hospital with the instructions to go home and get some rest and if it got worse to come back. And he died in front of me five hours later. And I mean, my father went to the hospital looking for help and didn't get it. And so my mom really struggled. And so what ended up happening was we were in Maryland at that time. And my mother was having a really difficult time. And then she called up her parents, my grandparents. My grandfather was a minister in the South Bronx. And he was the first black minister in the history of the Dutch of Foreign Church. And my grandmother was a school teacher for 27 years in the South Bronx.

And I'll say their house was barely big enough for them. But they figured out a way to make it big enough for all of us. And so my mom moved us up to go live with my grandparents. When we got up there, my mom was not at all comfort with a lot of schools and the area. It was not a great area. My mother was working three different jobs, all parts, our part-time jobs, none of them which paid her benefits, but was working three part-time jobs. And she heard about this school called Riverdale. And she was working all these jobs to try to find a way for me to attend this school, you know, this school in the Bronx called Riverdale. And so I went to the school for a little while. And it was a really hard experience for me because I think that

transition was not a very good transition either because I very quickly found myself, you know, almost being too poor for the kids at the school and now too rich for the kids in my neighborhood. So you're almost this chameleon everywhere you go. And so I eventually ended up getting sent to a military school for my high school years. Valley Forge. Valley Forge. And so my academic career. Didn't Trump go to Valley Forge too? No, he went to New York military. Okay, so Valley Forge is better, I think. I think so. We focus on integrity.

Exactly. Exactly. My academic career was very bouncy. And I think that that was one of the things. And I think part of the reason why I feel like my story, you know, where I feel such a level of connection to so many kids who are coming up with where there is no even line. Like that's not how life works oftentimes. and particularly for kids, for kids like myself who their childhood is laced with these,

with these traumatic moments and traumatic memories and these aces, these acute, you know, childhood experiences and these adverse childhood experiences. And so that's why I was thankful that when I finally did get to Valley Forge, when I finally got to a military school, that it was a place that I hated when I first showed up. I literally ran away five times in the first four days. I'm sure. But it was a place that I also found myself and I was able to reinvent myself and and able to find a place and find this idea and change my whole psychology that everywhere that I was, it wasn't there because I wasn't there because of someone's benevolence or kindness, but that everywhere I was, I was there because I belonged.

Right. And then you went on to have this very impressive academic career, but something that we talk a lot about in my household because my husband involved in education and also that our Flotus talks about a lot, which is you went through community college. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing, right? So I always laugh. I say, you know, like, I'm the only candidate in this race for the race for the governor of Maryland who has an associate's degree. Right. And people laugh. And they're like, wait, they're like, you are the first black road scholar in the history of Johns Hopkins University and the ring you wear is from your junior college. Right. Like, it is because it's my foundation. And part of the reason that I am so insistent and I know that even within our administration, we're going to put a core focus on our junior colleges and community colleges and our trade schools and our apprenticeship programs is I needed to go to a junior college to find my way. And it was perfectly fine because we, I think we do ourselves, we do our children and our students, we do our families of disservice. When we somehow think that the that this bar for accomplishment or this measure for success is a singular measure. It's not. People are going to go their different paths. And so if we have an ability to allow that,

platform for people to do it, that becomes important and useful because I, my entire experience, Molly, would have been different had I started off at a four-year school. I know that. And that's okay because the end goal was determined by my path and I needed time and space to be able to, you know, to make my own identity in that. Yeah. No, I mean, such a good point. So you then went on to do incredibly well in college, went on to become a road scholar, which I'm married to someone who bragged about being a whiting. So I know that it's not, you know, you're very smart, but I'm just saying, like, is it no slouch? And then you went to live in London, and then you wrote the other Westmore. I did. And honestly, I think for me, writing the other Westmore

was a bit accidental because I first learned about the other Westmore was actually it was when, you know, right after I received the Roast Moore, it was actually when, you know, right after I received the scholarship, the Baltimore Sun, which is my hometown paper. It wrote this article about my life and my childhood and my experiences and how this local kid who was now just received a road scholarship and was now getting ready to head up to England on this scholarship. And the same time, they're writing a whole series of articles about four guys who walked into a jewelry store and a botched jewelry store robbery ended up murdering an off-duty police officer. And the more I learned about this crime, the more I'll learn about this tragedy, the more I realized that not only did we

have me and myself and one of the other people who was eventually captured and tried and convicted had a lot in common, most importantly, and most strikingly, the thing we had in common was our name. His name was also Westmore. And so you have this story about these two young men with similar type of backgrounds as I'm getting ready to head off to England. He's getting ready to spend the rest of his life in prison. And I'd known West for a while. before even the idea and the concept of a book came about. Oh, you knew the other West Warner. Oh, yeah.

So as soon as I first heard about it, as soon as my mom actually was the first one who told me that there were wanted posters in my neighborhood. And at first I was kind of like, you know, that, okay, but I don't know why that justifies a phone call. And then she said to me, she's like, because they have your name on it. And that was so jarring to me that eventually I reached out to West.

And I remember the first note that I wrote him, I was saying, hey, Wes, you know, my name is Wes, and here's how I heard about you. and that one letter turned to dozens of letters between us and dozens of visits. And so I had known Wes for a while before the concept of a book came about. And I remember once when I was asking Wes about it, I told him that someone approached me and said, we think there's a book here. We think there's a bigger story. And he said to me, he said, I think you should do it.

And he said, no, he said, I've wasted every opportunity I've ever had. And he said, if you can do something to help people understand the consequences for their decisions. and also do something to help people understand the neighborhoods that these decisions are being made in, then you should do it. And that really became the fire and the focus behind what eventually turned into a book called The Other Westmore. So interesting. And then you went on to work in foundations and then you came back to Maryland. So talk to me about what your vision is as governor of Maryland and what you're hoping. Yeah, the thing that I'm hoping is that we have to center our priorities that this is about economic growth and economic opportunities for everybody. And I say the North Star for our campaign and the North Star for our administration, it's going to be work, wages, and wealth.

How are we creating pathways to work, wages, and wealth for all people within our communities, right? And that is going to mean in order to do that, we've got to have an education system that go. from cradle to career and stop this pipelying and bifurcating in the way that we look at education and that we need to be able to follow the data, the same thing that I was able to do when I was a CEO of one of the largest nonprofit organizations in America, whereas as a leader, I am data-driven and heart-led. Well, the data continues to show us that the earlier we can get children in a structured academic environment, the better it is for the child and the better it is for the family. So we need to make sure we have free pre-K for every child in this state in need.

You know, the data continues to show us that it's not just about curriculum adjustments, but if we're also not addressing things like dental care and eye care and the high number of students who go to school with asthma, we're going to completely miss the point. So we need to invest in community schools. The data continues to show us that we have broken transportation assets. And I can give a person the best job training program in the world. If I can't get to the job, then what's the point? So we need to fix transportation assets.

And so this really is about how are we fixing all these math? mechanisms that lead to opportunities for work, wages, and wealth for everyone within our state. Talk to me about what the topography of your state looks like. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I love about our state is there's a beauty in the diversity of our state. You know, our state is one of the most diverse states in the country where we're literally, in fact, census numbers show that around 50% of our state are people of color. It's really inspiring because I think that everything also continues to show is that's, that's, that is one of our state's superpowers is the fact that we have such an inclusive and such an inclusive environment. You know, I think about it in context of this race, right, where I picked and I asked Aruna Miller, who's a former delegate from Montgomery County, which is a major, a major part of D.C. suburbs in Maryland to be my running mate. So I think she's going to be the next lieutenant governor for the state of Maryland. And she's brilliant. She's a dynamic. leader. She served nearly a decade as a legislator in Annapolis as part of the Maryland General Assembly,

nearly three decades as a civil and a transportation engineer in her home area. And I remember we were at a rally, Molly, and I was in the middle of giving a talk. And I looked down and I saw her mom and my mom sitting next to each other. And I paused because her mom is a woman who immigrated to this country from India. My mom is a woman who immigrated to this country from Jamaica. Both of them with hopes for what would be their life, but more importantly, what would be the life that they could help to give to their children? And I remember saying to the crowd at that moment that with your help, these two beautiful women are going to be sitting together again in a year, except they'll be sitting at the inauguration of their two children to become the governor and the lieutenant governor

of states that welcomed them. And so I think that the demographics of our state, the fact that our state is the second highest educated state in the entire country, one of the most affluent states in the entire country that we have assets all throughout our state makes us an incredibly powerful, have a lot of powerful potential, but it currently is a state we're just asset rich and strategy poor. We've got to find ways of being able to leverage all these assets and leverage all the human potential that exists within the state of Maryland to be able to provide a better pathway for everybody that everybody can enjoy. That's so good. It's so interesting and so important. Wes, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you'll come back. Oh, you know I will. And thank you so much

for everything you're doing for all your leadership. What's crazier than QAnon, more outlandish than Pizza Gate, and scarier than a Mexican getaway with Ted Cruz? The answer is what the American right wing has planned next. Be one in the first to listen to Fever Dreams, new podcasts from the Daily Beast tracking the conspiracy slingers, orange acolytes, and straight-up grifters pushing to retake power. Every Wednesday hosts Swin Subisang and Will Summer, checking in on the movement of the radical right. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash podcasts,

or your favorite podcast player to catch the first episode and get subscribed. That's Fever Dreams, which you can subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts. Andy Levy. Molly Jongfest. Who is your fuck-that guy? My fuck that guy is someone we don't really ever talk about on this podcast. Who? He is the governor of a state.

And the state is Florida, Molly. Yeah, who? I'm looking up his name because we never talk about him, and so it's hard to remember. Oh, it's Ron DeSantis. That's what it is. Yeah. That's what it is. Little known, terrible, Republican governor.

Ron Dulcantis. He's backing this proposal that's in the Florida legislature to take $200 million in education funding away from Democratic counties because they went against his executive order last year that mask mandates were banned and they kept the mandates. In the first place, it's a unconstitutional, most likely proposal, but it has passed. It has passed in the House in Florida. Can pass anything that's Republican. Yeah, no. I mean, federal constitution means very little. The state constitutions mean next to nothing.

It's just, you know, whatever they feel like doing. But keep in mind that this is the same guy who says that, you know, you shouldn't, you can't let businesses, you can't force businesses to have mandates, which, okay, fine, if you want. But he is also now saying that businesses are not allowed to have mandates, which I thought you're small, if you're a small government guy, then it should be up to the business. If you're saying, well, we don't have the power to put a mandate on a business because it's a private entity, then you also don't have the power to stop a business from enacting its own mandate. But that would make at least some sort of cohesive sense. Yeah, no place for that in the Republican Party. And so DeSantis doesn't agree with that, obviously.

So, yeah, so he wants to take money away, $200 million away from schools because they wanted their kids to wear masks. This is last year, by the way, 20, 21, not now. you know, this is 2021 when, you know, the pandemic was very viscerally real. So for all of that and so many more reasons, I say fuck that guy. Who is yours, Molly? It's funny. I was thinking about the Ron DeSantis ad when he first came on the scene where he was showing his son how to build a wall with little paper blocks.

Like, oh, how far he's come. My fuck that guy is someone who we never have. ever talk about on this podcast because he's so not the head of the Republican Party at this point. And his name is one Tucker Swanson, Carlson, the Frozen Fish Air, the 11th. Perhaps you've heard of him. I'm vaguely familiar with him, yes. He was doing some Hillary Clinton bullying. He has moved on.

And last week was a Hillary is finally going to get her come up because the Durham investigation opened. and opened the door to that. Turns out that whatever. Then Durham walked it back. So Tucker went on a tirade against the other person who he's kind of obsessed with, which is AOC, and said that she wasn't really Latino. He had a graphic of her wearing a crown,

and he criticized her for growing up at Westchester and being too fancy. I don't know if you know this. Tucker, Swanson, Carlson, McPhishhead, grew up in San Francisco, was very fancy, went to a fancy boarding school. I mean, I say this is someone myself who went to private schools. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I also had a lot of advantages, but I think that attacking AOC for having advantages is a little bit perverse,

considering that her whole platform is about trying to help people who have less. So Tucker attacked her. And, you know, the truth is Tucker isn't attacking her because of the moral high ground. And he's attacking here because his viewers like it when he does that. So why do you think that is, Molly? If you had to wager a guess. Look, Five Nights is a lot of nights to have to fill content. It really is.

I mean, you know, the thing with people when they do media criticism, like, you know, they never like stop and say, well, you know, it's just you have to write every day. But it's a lot of time. And I think that Tucker has figured out that targeting liberal. women that his viewers really like that, and AOC is a really good paper tiger for them. And so he likes to attack her, and it's easy content for those five days a week. So anyway, he attacked her. She pointed out that every time, as I know, I haven't been attacked by him, but I've

been attacked by Don Jr., when they come after you, that group, you get a lot of death threats, like a lot. And she now has, you know, to pay for all this extra security, which I think that actually actually Congress pays for. Still, I mean... No, exactly. But look, as you perfectly said, it's hard to do a show five nights a week, and it's a lot easier if you basically do the same show every night. That makes your job a lot easier. And so he's got four or five things. He's got Fauci is the devil. AOC is evil. Lock Hillary up. Putin is a god among men. And also Hungary.

Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a week. That's an entire week of shows right there. and then you rinse and repeat the next week. And it makes your life a lot simpler when you can do that. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science. We'll help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media.

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