The Daily Beast Podcast - Newsom Demolished DeSantis Using the One Thing Republicans Hate

Episode Date: December 3, 2023

t was meant to be a debate showcasing the new faces of the major parties. But as The New Abnormal team points out, Gavin Newsom came armed with something Ron DeSantis wasn’t prepared for. Plus! Danielle Moodie talks to ProPublica’s national reporter, Kavitha Surana, to talk about her deep dive into 12 of the nation’s strictest abortion bans. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new abnormal.

We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with national reporter at ProPublica, Kavitha Serana, who's here to tell us all about her recent piece. Some Republicans are willing to compromise on abortion ban exceptions. Activists made sure they didn't. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to rumble? What's that hell? I guess.

Well, last night, Grusome Gavin Newsom and Meatball Ron DeSantis entered the ring of debate with moderator Sean Hannity, which really meant it was Sean Hannity and Meatball Ron versus gruesome Gavin. And I got to say, I think instead of me even saying it,

I think we should just start listening and we can really see what happened because it was a joy to see. 1,406 books have been banned just last year on Iran Descent's leadership. I love that he keeps pulling this out. I've seen this. He's been doing this all of a campaign trail. What's wrong with Tony Morrison's books?

It's not banned. What's wrong? It's not true. What's wrong with Amanda Gorman's? It's not banned. One thousand four hundred and six. One thousand four hundred and six books have been banned on your banning binge in the state of Florida. As it relates to parental rights.

Come on. California, it's in our constitution parental engagement. It's called the LCFF process. We actually require parental engagement on curriculum development. And we don't. Complete lie, we don't require K through third grade sexual education. That doesn't happen until middle school. What you're doing is using education as a sword for your cultural purge.

And you know what, with all due respect, you know, I remember in the 1970s, in the 1970s, in the 1970s we had a bill called the Briggs Initiative. And there was a guy by the name of Ronald Reagan, so offended by the Briggs Initiative, which was the original don't say gay bill. In that case, it was not allowing teachers that happened to be gay to teach. And Reagan had the courage to stand up, and he said, you can't catch gay like you can measles.

I don't like the way you demean people. I don't like the way you demean the LGBTQ community. I don't like the way you demean and humiliate people you disagree with, Ron. I really find this fundamentally offensive, and this is a core value that distinguishes the values of my state and, frankly, the vast majority of Americans against the weaponization

of education. Oh, God damn. Did they move the governor's mansion in Florida to the morgue? Because that was a dead body. What amazes me is, like, all these people that do want to ban books, because that is what they want to do, they then, like, they don't even have the courage of their convictions to just come out and say, yes, I want to ban books. And it's just like, it's like all these people that go to Hungary. and talk to Victor Orban and whatever, and then come back here and get very mad when you, you know, call them fascists and things like that. It's like, just, just say what you,

like, if this is what you believe, why not just say it? Like, why, why pussyfoot around it and just want all these things, but be afraid to then say, oh, yes, that's, that's what I want. And, you know, Roger Sanders should get up there and say, he should be Jack Nicholson in a few good men. And he should say, you know, you're goddamn right. I banned a thousand, forty-six books or whatever the number is. But he won't even do that. And it's just, it's so slimy. Because they're cowards.

Yeah. That's why Gavin Newsom said, like, get in the ring because they're cowards. Because when you hold their record to their faces, when you say, this is what you have done, over a thousand books, what's wrong with Tony Morrison? What's wrong with Amanda Gorman, the poet? Like, what's wrong with this person? And you want to stand on parental rights as your reasoning around. that, well then buck up. But they don't. They want to do their dirt under the cloak of darkness,

under the cloak of lies. Because when asked pointedly, when you shine a light on it, they know that they're not popular, that the decisions that they are making are wildly unpopular. So let's do it under the cloak of darkness. That was brilliant. Yeah. Well, he's going to keep shining a light on this meatballs bullshit. Here comes. I would argue as a prerequisite for the pursuit of happiness. Well, I couldn't agree with you more. We're near 50-year lows. down 55% violent crimes in the state of California from the 1990s. And I want to compare and contrast that with the issue in Florida that you didn't mention. And that's the murder rate. And let's broaden it more broadly. The issue is seven of the top 10, 10 murder rates in the United States America are

red states. He has a 66% higher gun death rate than the state of California. It's a higher murder rate. Go to places like Jacksonville. Go to places like Orlando. Go to places like Tampa. The murder rates off the charts compared to cities like San Francisco. And you know what? Even more egregiously, Sean, and I think this is important. American people deserve an answer from you, Ron. You had one of the worst mass shootings in American history, Parkland. 17 kids were gunned down, lives lost.

17 others, lives torn asunder. You had a young girl by the name of Jamie Gutenberg, whose father pleaded with you to do something about it. And you know what you did? They did the exact opposite. You made it easier for felons to get guns without background checks, without any training. These people pleaded with the parents and the families to get tough on gun safety. And again, you made it easier for felons.

He said of you, Ron, and I agree with them, after you signed that concealed carry bill, which increases the likelihood, Fred Gutenberg said, of more jamies losing their lives and more parklands, he called you weak, pathetic, and small. So with respect, I appreciate you're talking to police officers. in the state of California, you may want to spend a little bit more time, not on the Ohio trail and other places across this country. You may spend a little more time back in your home state and address the murder and gun violence in your own backcountry. So this is, oh, dear God. Like, did Rhonda Santis's wife really think that this was a good idea to push her man on the

stage? Because this was not it. This was not it. It's really one of the things that I think is very interesting is obviously both people's teams said this was a good idea. I think Gavin, a setting of himself up to try to look like the likely successor to Biden and meetball Ron trying to save his flailing terrible presidential campaign. And one team misjudged this situation very badly. I wonder how Kimberly Gilfoyle feels about all this. Like on the one hand, she probably doesn't like Gavin too much. But on the other hand, anything that takes down to Santis is, I guess, good for Trump.

Although at this point, it doesn't really matter. But I am not by any stretch of the imagination a huge Gavin Newsom fan. This is unfair. Let me tell you something. If this is his audition tape for 2028, bravo, bitch, bravo. I have never seen anything better than this. If these are the two top contenders to be the new leaders and the new face of their parties, I mean, this was a smackdown fest right now.

Like, and again, just doing it with the thing that Republicans hate the most. Facts. Ron DeSantis spent so much time trashing San Francisco, trashing the state of California. And he's like, how about you look in your own backyard? How about you walk out on your own front stoop before you come over to somebody else's state and tell us what we're doing wrong? To call somebody pathetic weak to their face, though?

Oh my God. But Danielle, he said, with all due respect before. Which makes it just even worse. With all due respect, you're a small, small, small man. So one of the arguments for Mayor Pete, who a judge always going on Fox News and people like gruesome Gavin doing this is this is the first time many of these Fox News viewers are going to hear any reality. And when it comes to bringing reality,

I'm going to say this is the Mike Tyson biting an ear of reality going down their throats. In other words, it's the toughest job in the world. Is Joe Biden experiencing this cognitive decline? Is it a danger to the country? Do you find when he speaks, what is your reaction to it? Yes, he's in decline. Yes, it's a danger to the country. He has no business running for president.

And, you know, Gavin Newsom agrees with that. He won't say that. That's why he's running his shadow campaign. He should not be running. He is not up to the job. And it is dangerous for this country. Well, I'll take, I will take Joe Biden at 100 versus Ron DeSantis any day of the week at any age.

In fact, all of the folks on the-ta-the-job, you think he's 100%. I've been spending plenty of time with Joe Biden. 100%. By the way, results matter. Inflation now is down to 3.2% wages are up to 4.4%. The economy is booming 5.2% GDP growth in the last quarter. There's a facts you don't hear on Fox News. 14 million jobs 10 times more than the last.

That was a light. That was a very fast let me move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did they do exactly what happened there. The thing is, though, I think this whole debate was stupid, but I don't have a problem with Gavin News or any Democrat going on Fox News and trying to make a case. I don't know that it matters. I don't think that the Fox News viewers who have that station on from the minute they wake up

to the minute they go to bed and actually probably fall asleep with it on. in the background as well so they can get the hypnosis stuff. I don't think reality is part of that equation. So I don't think any of this is changing any of the minds of anyone that watches Fox News. I think that Fox News viewers are brainwashed to the 10th degree. I don't think that anything could be done to have them have that like, you know, when the hypnotist snaps their fingers and it's just like, oh, and you're back in reality. You know, Bravo for trying, though, because I think that rather than just give it, you know, give these people over, these mushed minds over to Republicans to continue to destroy, there needs to be some inroads that are made.

And unfortunately, Fox News is the only place to do it. Yeah, no, I agree. And that's exactly what I'm saying. It's like I don't fault anyone for trying. I remember people got mad at Bernie Sanders in 2020, I think it was, for going on Fox. And I was like, no, you do that. And when Buttigieg did it too, you know, good for them. Go ahead, do it.

I just think there's not much that can get into the head of a 24-7 Fox News viewer these days. Yeah, media matters, Angela Carasone on this very podcast actually came on and debunked the idea that when you hear that about all the liberals watching it, that it was a very flawed study. But I do think what was actually happening here is they also know that this is going to spread and this is going to be a thing that people show around the holidays. And, like, frankly, what I think Gavin really did, that was amazing years. The whole time I was watching this, it was giving, like, the liberal porn that President Bartlett was on West Wing to me. Like, it just felt like the way Bartlett argued all the time. And he, and, you know, everybody knows there's a certain age of people who watch that show that loved it. I think he modernized that a little bit.

And really, at the end of the day, it's going to make the argument for a lot of people that he can handle beating whoever is a nominee whenever he goes up against them. Oh, yeah, for him. A hundred percent. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Okay, we're going to round this out with one last final thing of the meatball getting shued up. You know, I think it's a question some people are probably asking. I know Nikki Haley's campaign is asking, when are you going to drop out and at least give

Nikki Haley a shot to pick down Donald Trump in this nomination? She laid you out. You're a walking hypocrite. You wish. What about China? issue of China. This is the guy that was looking for direct foreign trade from China was doing trade. That is open up an awesome. That's already been debunkin. That's absolutely true. There's a reminder. She already laid you out. Oh my God.

What I mean, what I would have liked, do you know how like the cameras after the game, you know, after a basketball game, like they'll follow the players into the locker room. I really would have liked the cameras to follow Ron DeSantis. in the car ride with his wife after this. You want to talk about getting laid the fuck out? Ooh. Mm-mm. Embarrassing.

Embarrassing. Yeah, I don't think to carry your analogy, you know, a lot of times after a big game or whatever, they'll show the opposing coaches shaking hands or the players, you know, hugging or whatever. I'm going to guess there was not a lot of that after this. No. Mm-mm. I have a feeling at the end of this. Ron was having some real weird sounds come out of his body and, you know, like,

mung-y and things like that. And it's a weird laugh, that weird robotic screeching laugh. Maybe he insulted a child about their food choices to make himself feel better. I do think that this is going to do wonders for Christina Peshaw's future. Because she has just done such a bang-up job with this DeSantis campaign and just making one great choice after another. After another. And just nothing will make me happier than for her to never be able to work again.

Yeah, I will say, though, let's always remember, this is the Republican Party. Mediocre people fail upward. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. What's below mediocre? Because that's where they are. Solid point.

Solid point. I'm very happy to welcome to the new abnormal national reporter at ProPublica, Cavita Serana, who wrote a piece. recently that I think is extraordinarily important entitled, Some Republicans were willing to compromise on abortion ban exceptions. Activists made sure they didn't. Kavita, let's start at the beginning, which is the overturning of Roby Wade, which created in many red states, if not all of them,

a avalanche of trigger laws that took place in the event that Roe would fall. And I just want to give you the opportunity to tell us about what these trigger laws were and why no one had paid attention to them when they were created. Yeah, that's important to understand because these trigger laws were passed years before Roe was overturned. And at the time that they were passed, many people saw it as a political statement, not something that would have real world effect because Roe would stop it. You know, total abortion ban wouldn't be possible as long as the Supreme Court. court decision on Roe versus Wade protected the right to abortion in the United States. Some Republican lawmakers who voted for these laws have even said publicly that they didn't expect them to go into effect. Of course, the people who wrote the laws, anti-abortion activists,

and other Republicans did hope and believe that Roe would be overturned one day. But at the time that they were being passed, there wasn't a lot of public discussion or debate about them because they weren't imminently going to go into effect. So last year when Roe was overturned, turn, we saw many people shocked at how restrictive these abortion bans were that most people hadn't been paying attention to. Most of them had no exceptions for rape or incest, for children, no exceptions for severe fetal anomalies where the fetus would not survive, and no broader health exceptions. They usually have an exception that's sometimes called Life of the Mother, but even those are written extremely narrowly like it has to be necessary to prevent death.

And in a few cases, some of the laws didn't even have those explicit exceptions for that. So we've heard a lot of stories of women who were affected. I'm sure some of your listeners have heard just the outpouring of stories since then of women speaking about their experiences. And I think that what's important about your piece, which examines 12 states with the strictest abortion bans, is it is the stories. It is the stories of pregnant people waiting in parking lots to reach the point. to be at death's door in order to receive the type of care that they need, that you have women testifying that were in your piece about asking, what does constitute an emergency? Do I need to be brain dead, right, in order for a doctor to be able to exercise medical intervention or are they going to

go to jail for a lifetime? So tell us about the states that you covered in here and why it was important to kind of showcase this, because I think that oftentimes for those of us who live on, you know, the coasts, we're still kind of living in this la-la land like, oh, well, we have abortion and are not in many ways paying attention to the insidiousness of these quote-unquote pro-life groups, these activist groups that are chipping away at even our protections in these states. So talk to us about these 12, if you will. Yeah, I wanted to look at these 12. because there's been some recent high-profile successes for abortion access supporters like the referendum in Ohio to protect abortion rights a few weeks ago.

But I really wanted to step back and look at what's happening in the most conservative states when it comes to the strict abortion bans. And was there an opportunity to change these laws and what happened? Because in some of these states, there's less room for change in the same way that, you know, some states don't have the option for a ballot initiative, for example. So the only way to really change these laws would be through the last. legislature. I thought it was important because even as that optimism of some states making changes and there being a national backlash, it doesn't mean that there will be change in these states

very quickly because their legislatures are so beholden to anti-abortion lobbyists. You know, one of the things that you write about at the top of your article is about state representative out of South Dakota, Taylor Rayfeld. And at the time that she's speaking on the floor of the state legislature, she's. She is herself pregnant. And what she is saying, and this was the quote, which is, I would never have possibly imagined that a bill protecting a woman's life could be so contentious. And that really stuck out to me because this is what we're talking about here.

These pro-life activists, in my humble opinion, are very much anti-woman. because what we are learning is that what we know, right, if you believe in facts and statistics, is that most people with uteruses, most women, who have abortions, already have kids. So it is not like this willy-nilly decision that the right has painted it as, and that a lot of complication happens in pregnancies that require abortion care. And so when she made that point that I would not think that a bill protecting a woman's life would be so contentious. As a Republican woman, she was saying this, I thought it was so striking. Why do you think that things like this, even from Republican women, are not registering in these places?

Yeah, it was such an interesting example because she considers herself anti-abortion. She has a voting record that's 85% in line with South Dakota Right to Life scorecard. She's a nurse and she has medical expertise and she had recently been elevated to assistant house majority So this is someone with some influence in the legislature. And beyond that, she's talking about her own personal experience, having a high-risk pregnancy, knowing that she'd had a stroke in past pregnancy. She could be at high risk for blood clots or heart issues that could become life-threatening. To me, what was important to point out was that the change that she was proposing to the law

was still very, very small. It's basically to change it from, instead of just necessary to prevent death, it would be if the female is at serious risk of death or of a substantial and irreversible physical impairment of one or more major bodily functions. So not just substantial but also irreversible. This is language that has appeared in a lot of anti-abortion laws already. So it shouldn't have been a big lift, you would think. It's not the kind of change that abortion access supporters would support or see as significant. A lot of doctors wouldn't even see it as significant. And even that, couldn't get past because she said to me that South Dakota right to life opposed it. So I think

that really highlights the influence of the anti-abortion groups on a Republican Party. These groups, if they have it their way, do not want to see any exceptions and abortion bans because the movement overall really views any abortion as unethical. They view it as the same as murder. One of the things, too, again, that stuck out to me in your piece, which I also think is incredibly important that when we're talking about health emergencies, right, that you wrote this. Many of the laws specify that mental health reasons can't qualify as a medical emergency, even if a doctor diagnoses that a patient might harm herself or die if she continues a pregnancy. Yeah, some of the laws specifically stated that way, which is very striking.

I mean, it speaks to the anti-abortion groups thinking that, doctors can exploit these laws to just provide abortions to anyone by saying that they have a mental health emergency. But another thing about that is so much of the conversation in the media has been about life-threatening emergencies, rightly so, because these laws make it difficult to handle those. But what's left out of the conversation is just broader health implications that are definitely not covered under these laws because there can be all kinds of things that are exacerbated by pregnancy, heart issues, diabetes. You could discover you have cancer while you're pregnant.

And these often don't fit into immediately life-threatening, but they could have consequences that somebody doesn't want to, you know, they could still have severe consequences or become life-threatening a year later because of how they were exacerbated in pregnancy. So that's a whole other bucket of things that haven't got as much attention because they're not as dramatic, but are really left out of the conversation in these laws. I think that what your piece makes really clear is that these people, these quote-unquote, pro-life activists, which is very much tied to the Christian nationalist movement that we have seen, that we are seeing sweep across this country, really don't. don't care about people's lives and that women to them and bodies that have uteruses are just that. They're just host bodies.

And I believe that there was even someone, and I can't, it escapes me right now, who literally referred to a pregnant person as a host body when testifying. And it's just what inroads do you even see? Because at the end of your piece, you know, you're interviewing a series of doctors, that essentially sound very hopeless. And so what did you hear in the series of interviews that you've done where there is maybe any type of light? Yeah, the doctors I've spoken to in some states feel a lot of despair.

And I'll give you one example. In Tennessee, there is not an option to do a ballot initiative. And last session, right to life, came out very strongly against a very small change to that law as well. the bill that doctors and some Republicans are putting forward would allow doctors to both treat and prevent medical emergencies. The lobbyists for Tennessee Right to Life did not want the law to allow doctors to prevent medical emergencies. So instead, Right to Life put forward their own version of an exceptions bill that was much more narrow, did not make the kind of changes that would give doctors more comfort to provide care for health issues. And what they're hearing heading into this year is that it will be very difficult to try to put forward a similar bill again because the calculus and the legislature hasn't changed a lot.

And a lot of Republicans are worried about facing primary elections. It's an election year. And they could face a challenger with right-to-life support. And I get it, right? Like that's their goal is to scare lawmakers into doing. their bidding by fear of losing their seat, fear of losing their power. And so many of these politicians, even though they may agree that exceptions should be made, will continue to just fall in line. I just want to lift up one of the women who describes the harm that they have

experienced because I thought to myself, like, how horrible is this? Jackie Staten, you write, an Oklahoma woman who had a dangerous pregnancy that is never viable. and can become cancerous, sued after being told that doctors, quote, couldn't touch me until I was crashing and that we should wait in the parking lot until I was about to die. She told the Tulsa World. Final thoughts for you on what you want people to take away from your story and why it's important. I just thought that that shifted messaging is important to parse out more deeply because these anti-abortion groups have a strong relationship with the Republican Party and their ultimate goal is total bans and fetal personhood. So the recognition that a fetus has the same rights as a person.

And while the messaging during the campaign season might be around 15 weeks, behind the scenes, these groups will continue to be pushing for their goal, which is total abortion bans. Yeah, I thank you so much for for this piece, Kavita. And I hope, hope that folks listening, we'll check it out at ProPublica. Again, it is entitled, Some Republicans were willing to compromise on abortion ban exceptions. Activists made sure they didn't. Thank you so much for making the time for the new abnormal. Really appreciate you and your work. I appreciate your time. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This

podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.