The Daily Beast Podcast - Pentagon Pete Will Be First Big Scalp of Trump 2.0

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

The Daily Beast’s David Gardner and Sarah Ewall-Wice join Joanna Coles to unpack Trump’s latest obsession, a $200 million Arc de Trump slated to lord over the Potomac. Is it legacy-building or pure delusion? From secret Oval Office blueprints and questions over who’s really bankrolling Trump’s $200 million ballroom to Pete Hegseth’s war on the press fallout, Coles and company expose a capital consumed by Trump’s ego and unravel what his monument mania reveals about the man who can’t stop trying to carve himself into history. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do we think that Hegseth is in last chance saloon here and he's frantically paddling under the surface and trying to show his boss that he's capable? We were told early on that Trump did not want a repeat of his first administration. Where it was kind of chaos, he was firing people, hiring people. It was a lot of unrest within the administration. So my guess is watch out for January and Pete Hegssef, because I don't think he's going to last much longer than that first year. So much going on in D.C.

Now the president is back from his victory tour of the Middle East. And of course he's now apparently planning his Ark de Trump, which I think he's been inspired by obviously the Ark de Triumph in Paris and perhaps marble arch, because I gather he's going for angels and all sorts of fancy things on the top of his planned art, which he wants to go across the Potomac. River and opposite. Well, where's it supposed to be going opposite, guys? We've got two of our DC correspondence with us. They know much more about it than I do. Sarah Ewell-Weiss and David Gardner, who are the authors also of our must-read-the-swamp newsletter, which comes out every Tuesday night and is packed with juice about what's actually going on there. Give us an up-to-date sit-rep on what's happening with the Trump arc. And, and it's packed. And then I want to make sure that we leave time to talk about his happy space as general contractor of the ballroom before we get deep into what the hell is going on with Pete Hegsef.

So this was actually revealed to reporters because they were called into the Oval Office for an unrelated event. And the plans were out in the office and people were looking at it. And so what it appears to be is the early stages of another Trump building project in Washington, D.C. and what they have, according to these mock-ups, is this art going across the river from the Lincoln Memorial. So just outside, still in Washington they see, but on the very edge of Washington. And it's just another project that the president is working on perhaps in preparation for the 250th anniversary of the United States. but it is something that we've just kind of been seeing like bits and pieces of all these different projects that the president has been working on or thinking about as he totally tries to make over Washington in his image or in the image of things that inspire him. It's really extraordinary to think how physically he wants to leave his mark on the city.

David, we know that actually even Jeffrey Epstein, who was one of Donald Trump's in the end, strongest critics said that the one of the one of the one of the one of the one of the one. One thing he understood was real estate. He actually understood how to build a tower. It was the one place he felt happy in. Do you think that's what's going on here with the ballroom? Absolutely. He kind of judges himself on being a property guy. He always has done. I mean, he, even now, he claims to have created the entire New York skyline. That's his legacy as a property developer. Now he wants to kind of create the new DC skyline. that's his, that, he sees things in bricks and mortar. You know, not in literature or art. I mean, I think, you know, he can't resist showing off, and this is a very clear and obvious way of showing off his power and his money. Well, to be honest, I'd rather see a building by Donald Trump

than have to read a novel by Donald Trump. I could, you imagine they might make it compulsory reading for all school-age kids, and then we would all be tested on it. and anybody doing a visa or a passport application might have to answer complicated questions on Donald Trump's fiction. So what is it like? You work there every day. Does the city feel as if it has Donald Trump's what can't be argued with energy? Are people feeling lively?

Do people feel like they're just waiting for him to go? Is everybody geared up for the midterms? What is the feeling like there? amid all these new private clubs that I know you're both hanging out at. I think it's a confusion because in D.C. D.C. is used to transition. I mean, every four years, people lose their jobs. They move on. They move back. You know, but that's nothing new. But this time around, and there's a certain kind of equanimity about it, they kind of understand it and they kind of interact with it.

This time around, people are kind of confused. They don't really know what to expect all the norms are no longer normal. The conversations, I mean, you literally go out of a dim of these days and you had to say, let's just spend 20 minutes not talking about Donald Trump. It is the conversation across the city, whether you like it or not. And it dominates. And I think that's been the same for all, since January and before. Well, he would love that, right?

That's exactly what he wants to do. Sarah, what about all these clubs that you're hanging out at? What are you picking up? Does David's summary sound familiar? Yeah, so there has been a real vibe shift in Washington, D.C. And that really did start. It was right in your face starting with the inauguration. And it's hard to describe exactly how it shifted, but there has been a definite shift.

One thing that I think is funny slash interesting in terms of how D.C. is handled the second round of Donald Trump is Donald Trump brought the National Guard into Washington, D.C. And he's talking about Washington, D.C. being dead and people not going to restaurants for four years. And it being shut down in a dead, dirty city. And that is not accurate in any sense of it. So the picture he's painting is very different from the reality in D.C. There's a political shift. There's a vibe shift. The people coming into Washington are different. There's a lot more of the business. businessmen buying homes here, which means that they're also lobbying for some things that you would expect in Washington, D.C. But the city is vibrant and has been through Biden and Trump previously. I mean, it took a downturn for COVID. But that's not the picture that he has painted in the past couple, even months after he brought in National Guard in August. And now he's saying everything's back and you can go out and you can do things. The city has been open for business and thriving for quite some time. But people are talking about it more because you see things like National Guard troops walking down street still.

They are picking up the trash and scrubbing the sidewalks and whatnot, which is very different from in previous administrations. But between that aspect of it and also the different people who have been showing up here in terms of business, yes, there are a lot more private clubs coming in, the ones that are only Trump, MAGA folk. and then the ones that are also just like, let's mix and mingle, but are still very exclusive, have been showing up. And it does raise questions on where the deals are actually being made and by who. Interesting. And in terms of the idea of an arc de Trump, opposite, as you say, the Lincoln Memorial, but just across the river, are people taking this seriously?

I mean, you say the plans were left out. Were they left out on purpose? I suspect so. I mean, the Ard'Atreon, for instance, was built for the victims of the Revolutionary War, the Napoleon Wars. There's a eternal flame underneath it. What's this going to for Namoran? Baron Trump?

I mean, who knows what his intentions are and how he's going to be? But one knows it's going to be a memorial, a giant memorial to Donald Trump himself in some form or another. I mean, sure, I mean, he was talking about the ballroom. three administrations ago. He was offering to build it. He was telling Obama, he was telling Biden that he wanted to build it

and he happily stump up the cash. I mean, now he's got the chance to do it. I mean, again, this is all about self-angrip and group of Randesman. And that's, if you listen to Donald Trump any day of the week, that's a lot of what is about. It's interesting because it is all about Donald Trump, But it also kind of goes to show how little Donald Trump has been out in Washington.

And I'm very curious to see on why they chose the location they chose. Because when you drive into Washington, D.C., if you're a visitor coming from Reagan Airport, which is one of the main airports here, you go through Virginia and it's a bit darker right before you get to the city. And then you get onto the bridge and you see this gorgeous Lincoln Memorial, the marble, off across the bridge, all lit up. And it is a spectacular view coming into D.C. It'll be interesting to see what changes when you drive into Washington if they're changing that up and you come out of Virginia and you see the side of this arc or it'll be just a different invitation into Washington. But it still will be the first thing you'd see is the arc that Trump built if you're flying into that airport as you make your way into Washington. So it'll be interesting to see how that's received in terms of who you think of when you drive into D.C., but also what you see and that'll be a different.

landscape, if you will. His ambition really seems to know no bounds. Do we know how it's going to be financed? Because we know that the ballroom is being financed by American companies. That has been the big mystery for all of these projects. Trump has forked up the cash for the flagpoles at the White House. He tore up the Rose Garden and he said he paid for that. He said he'd pay for this $200 million ballroom.

But then it turns out he's also soliciting donations. and it's not sure how exactly he's, how he's soliciting those donations or who's forking over that money yet. They haven't revealed who those donors are or what they got in return, whether it's a sign on the wall in the ballroom in gold or if it's something else. And so that is one of the biggest questions about all of these projects is not just where the money comes from, but how exactly it was gathered. Perhaps perhaps you time to sue some more media companies. that seems to be a good way of him to raise money for his library. Well, I was going to say, I think they're going for his library and his library. And he's had the building donated, I think, by Miami-Dade County.

And let's hope he gets on with it and can finish it faster than President Obama has finished his library, which is still outstanding in Chicago. But the other thing that you've been dealing with in D.C., well, you're dealing with all things all the time, as the Swamp newsletter makes clear, is the most recent developments at the Pentagon with Pete Hegseth saying he's going to restrict access to journalists and that everybody needs to sign new rules, which sounds like a duolipa song, doesn't it? Maybe that's where he got it from. But in fact, what he managed to provoke was an unlikely allyship among the press who for once stood together and said they weren't prepared to do it. Can you fill us in on exactly what's going on there?

And what is he actually trying to achieve? Well, he's trying to achieve a situation where he doesn't get criticized for anything. And he keeps total control. He's the youngest secretary of war, any of your belief, certainly in terms of the Trump administration, the secretary of war. He lost control very early. I mean, he's basically come down.

on his own staff for claiming that they're leaking information from the Pentagon, wherein in fact the only one that actually leaks any significance is himself with the whole signal debacle when he included the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic on his own signal chat. And this was when he was leaking classified war plans. Yeah, so basically there was he was talking about us, a classified military strike on Yemen and that was basically

he then spread that information to his own group. So that's one kind of slightly ridiculous element of this whole thing. The other bizarre element is that he has a boss who is basically the audience he's operating to Donald Trump

who won't stop talking. He's inviting the press in. The press conferences every day are widespread, I mean, he's talking about every subject time of the sun. With Mr. Hegsef, he's had two actual briefings. He stopped all the background briefings, which basically did journalists, a good idea of what's going on in the department and what's going on in certain situations so they can have the perspective and the context to get things right. He stopped all those.

He now won't allow anybody in journalists into his department. without being escorted. And this latest thing is where he said that any information they publicized must be authorized by himself or his department. And this is the kind of the vining rod that caused this rebellion amongst the press. So Sarah, tell us a bit about the rebellion among the press, because this seems fairly unprecedented, isn't it? Well, we've never had an instance where the entire press corps at the Pentagon has been asked to sign a document saying they won't release any information without prior approval from the Pentagon. I mean, that goes against what reporting is. And so we've had multiple administrations for decades where this has not been something, but they offered up this 21-page set of rules that they must abide by. But it really has united every part of the media across the landscape.

I mean, we've got all the way to Newsmax saying they won't sign on to this, along with Fox News, not signing on to it, the president's favorite channel to watch. And of course, as you talk about the mainstream media or the legacy media with NBC and ABC and CBS. So this has united almost everyone together, and this is not what journalism is. what journalism does, and it's not what the First Amendment is about, which protects the freedom of the press. And so that has been a uniting pushback on this administration that I think maybe ended up with more unity than they had expected. And it goes to show where they are with this, because just on Monday or this week, I forget what day of the week we are in, on Tuesday,

the president was seated right down from the secretary, and Hexeth was at. asked about this by reporters at the White House, and he point blank lied about what this whole thing was about right next to the president. He said they're just not allowing them to go into restricted areas. He said reporters were able to roam free without badges, basically, and that's just never been the case. So he's going off of a set of lies, just sitting next to the president, and then the president hears this, and he's like, well, yeah, maybe not going into classified places, not something that was happening before. And then the president started riffing on how maybe we'll kick the press out of the White House too and put them across the street, which he could do, I guess, but also I think

that would receive similar pushback and unity from the news organizations. And also, I can't imagine the president long term going without speaking to the media. So that would be another challenge for that. So it seems that Pete Higgsath has had somewhat of a catastrophic first few months. He leaks classified war plans, then pretends they weren't classified. And then he calls, he summons all the generals 10 days ago from across the world, creating a security issue and then tells them that he's going to start firing fat generals, which I think he's done. Now he's trying to ban journalists from the Pentagon unless they sign something

saying that they will show the Pentagon exactly what they're going to say. is he going to fire fat journalists? I'm wondering if we even have the right weight and height ratio to be having this conversation without people. But what I'm really asking is, is this for the audience of one for Donald Trump, that Donald Trump knows that Hegzeth hasn't actually been great? His birthday parade was pretty unimpressive

compared to what the Chinese promptly put on and what the Brits put on when he went to Windsor Castle. So do we think that Hegseheth is a. last chance saloon here and he's frantically paddling under the surface and trying to show his boss that he's capable of. Well, I don't really know what this is supposed to symbolise that he's capable of. At Sarek, we were told early on that Trump did not want a repeat of his first administration where it was kind of chaos. He was firing people, hiring people. It was a lot of unrest within the administration. We were told he was going to give these, he was. He was a lot of

his cabinet, most of his leading cabinet members, a year. So there wasn't this kind of constant departure thing. So my guess is watch out for January and Pete Hake-sev, because I don't think he's going to last much longer than that first year. I would say that was also part of the strategy, though, because if you say your cabinet members are not going to be long-term choices from the get-go, then you put them in this competition from the get-go to basically fight it out, and prove who's the most loyal to the president.

And that has been something that the president has valued above all else, above how they handled the job, how they handle the policy. It is how they basically support him. And so Hegsef has maybe been underwater this entire time as a defense secretary, having little to no experience compared to other previous defense secretaries. But he's underwater in the job, but he's not underwater in the same sense when it comes to his fight for the president. And you see them all start with lavishing, heaping praise on this president in every meeting.

I mean, even when he was talking about the press requirements, he started by hitting the press over coverage of the Gaza agreement and then went on to talk about the makeup stories about why they actually need these restrictions. And so it's really a fight for the president's attention. and support more than it is a fight for the job and the department. So he's brought to the list in terms of efficiency and top of the list in terms of suckups. Hold on one second. We're just going to take some ads. And we're back.

Was it significant that Pete Heggzeth wasn't on the Middle East tour? I mean, certainly, yeah. I mean, he's taking very much a backed step to the whole procedure, isn't he? I mean, Marco Rubio, who sits the other side of Trump at the cabinet meetings, he was all these things and he's taking more of a central role. And HECF is stepping back. I mean, certainly because I don't think he's trusting him. I think to remember the last meeting in the Middle East, he was put on a separate

playing from the others, HECF. Again, sending a message for Hats. Well, perhaps he had his own gym on that plane. because the one thing he does seem to enjoy doing is working out. And that may be as a sort of post, as someone who's wrestled with alcohol, that it's a way of channeling his energy and his anxiety. But as we know, he's fired people who are around him because he didn't trust him. The reports coming out of the Pentagon are that he is anxious, that he's nervous,

that he's panicked, which is why he's enforced some of these new rules on the press. other than being in good shape, which he appears to be, in fact, I'm somewhat puzzled and actually Donald Trump himself picked up on this with his arms. He seems unable to close his arms next to his body. They're so jacked his arms. They sort of stick out a bit like a penguin. Anyway, what do we think that Donald Trump actually thinks of him? And then I was going to ask you, we know that Fox is part of this media alliance. that has decided not to sign his rules. He was a famously a co-host on a weekend chat show at Fox. And we also know he's slightly gone after Fox's Pentagon correspondent. I think it's Jennifer Griffin, who he's reamed out in previous press conferences. Yet we know that Trump loves Fox News. So can you square the circle for me here? I think the president in some ways picks

the people he picks for positions based on their looks. I mean, Caroline Levitt, for one, whatever you think of her in terms of how she's been handling the job, he always talks about her lips and her face when she's speaking to the media. He talks about central casting.

He talked about the generals being out of central casting. I'm like, there are also decades of experience, a century or more of experience among these men who gathered in Virginia recently. But he talks about things in terms of casting. And Pete Hexeth, for a moment, was central casting in his mind in terms of a look.

Whether he had the criteria and the qualifications for the job, that was extremely questionable from the get-go. And many people in this world who know the Pentagon and know the military, know the Defense Department, said absolutely not. He has none of the qualifications. He has none of the prior experience to lead this. And so the president went with this person

then based because he was on Fox News, it would seem, and was a close ally and supporter. But now he has to actually do the job. And I think that is where he's fighting so much for his life, is there have been so many embarrassing headlines for him that Trump may be someone who likes the loyalty, but he also doesn't like embarrassing headlines. And that could be something that'll come back to be the biggest problem for Pete Hedgeseth.

But when it comes to Fox News, it is interesting because it feels like you're watching two different things. They have Jennifer Griffin, who's a fantastic Pentagon reporter, and she has been on Fox News for a long time and has been accurately reporting on the Trump administration and been critical where-due of the Trump administration. And then you have her former colleague, Pete Hexeth, who has taken it out on her on numerous occasions. I called her out in at least one press briefing to her face. But she has fought back and was able to stand her ground because she is such a small. capable, educated reporter that she has actually made him back off in front of the cameras himself. And so I think there's a divide at Fox News on when you see her versus where you see

him. And I noticed that you haven't really seen the president attacking Jennifer Griffin's reporting in his tweets, which he has other Pentagon reporters. But I'm not sure if there's anything there. He just hasn't seen her reporting the same way he has seen Fox and Friends and other shows and when he's actually watching the news. And can you also explain the role of Pete Hegseth's wife here? She was, I think, an executive producer at Fox. But the word I hear from talking to people is that she is sort of dragged around like an emotional support dog.

So there are pictures of her on the wall. We know he's wrestled with alcohol problems. And she's supposed to be his not necessarily marital. sponsor, but she's been in meetings that would be considered classified meetings, which is very unusual for the role of a spouse. Well, yeah, also, we know that her nickname among staffers at the department is Yer Kelono, because she's pretty much inseparable from Hexeth. He's always around and apparently offering her opinion.

And she's not appointed she had no position there, but she's a constant presence at the Pentagon. So you have to ask what kind of influence she does have over his decisions, especially when you're talking about the media, something she's familiar with. She was executive producer, Fox and Friends, and the Waters World, but an experienced journalist in her own right, not a sort of talking Ken like her husband. So that is certainly the feeling among staff at the Pentagon, wondering exactly how much of her role she's played in this whole efforts to take it out from the press. And Sarah, what were the sort of, what were the reactions from the Pentagon reporters yesterday

when they gave in their badges? What were you hearing? I think there's a deep sadness because these are people who have been doing their jobs for many years have been doing so accurately. and working extremely hard around the clock for some of the most consequential events in U.S. history. And some of them have years of experience. Some of them have decades of experience.

And so they have long ties to the building, to the career officials who have worked in the building. There have been tears shed over this and frustration because of these new rules and these being put in by political appointees specifically. And so there is a lot of reporters have been posting photos of the plaque on the wall that has the pictures of all the Pentagon reporters, the credential reporters who have been at the Pentagon daily days and nights in many cases. And they are all saying basically a formal farewell to the building that they have called home and the support that they've had in that building for as a whole, decades. And so it has been a tough time.

It also, it says a lot about where the media is at this moment and where the news media is at this moment, where they're slowly being held back from doing their job, which is so important to this country and to the world. We're taking a quick break for some messages. And we're back. There seems to be incredibly vigorous reporting coming out of Washington. do you think that Pentagon journalists will stop reporting on the Pentagon as a result of this, or do you think that actually Pete Hegeseth might have inadvertently unleashed a new warrior ethos, as he says, brought to you by the warrior ethos in reporters?

The Pentagon Press Corps has been and will continue to be fantastic. They are dedicated individuals. They are hardworking men and women. and they are looking to get the truth no matter where, and I don't expect anything else from them moving forward. They'll be doing it from different locations, perhaps, in the future, than at the Pentagon. But something that is interesting is in many of these cases,

the leaks that have been coming out. Well, one, Trump used to himself be one of the biggest leaks in New York City. But now we have this Washington where they're trying to clamp down on leaks, and I think when the information is important, and when officials actually see the danger of this information being hidden away or swept under the rug, they will continue to go to their trusted sources and deliver that information. And I think one thing to keep in mind as we go forward with all of this is this is all coming right before the Inspector General himself is supposed to release that report on Signalgate and the classified leak of information that he was investigating there with that Yemen strike

and the group chat, the WhatsApp chat, or signal chat, rather, that was reported on by the Atlantic. And so through all of this, the biggest leaker himself has been trying to clamp down on leaks, will have this hanging over his head until it's released and has been trying to minimize the role of the inspector general throughout all of this as it hangs over his shoulder. So it's Pete Heggsaf projecting his own behavior by trying to close down. the Pentagon press crew. So, David, final word to you, what can we look forward to in the swamp this week? If readers haven't read it,

I can strongly advise your first story, which is about Pete Higgseth and his wife trying to close down Fox News access to the Pentagon. But what else is that in there? Because it's a collection of very juicy stories, not at least tracking the real estate prices of the swanky suburbs of D.E. as Trump's business friends move in.

Indeed. The prices are going up in terms of the billionaires are moving in, even as the actual workers don't have jobs and can't pay their mortgages. But on the swamp, we have a lovely story, actually. There's been an exodus of journalists from the Washington Post of late for many for political reasons. In this case, they're food critics. Tom Seasama has left after 25 years.

And it's kind of fun because he's had that job where restaurants aren't supposed to know he's there. So he's kind of worn fat suits and wigs and false teeth and a whole sort of thing. I mean, it's very Mar-a-Lago in a way. But he tells one funny story where in a photograph for one of his reviews, there was a couple having dinner in a specific restaurant. and the lady in the picture wrote him afterwards saying the wife of one of the man in the photograph wrote to him saying that he was having dinner with a woman who was not his wife

not me so basically he managed to out this man with his mistress in his restaurant review accidentally which kind of brings to mind the whole situation of the recent concert that's Colplay when... Of course. So anyway, we pay a fact to him as a critic and so that other story. There's also

a fun story about how the food on board Air Force One has changed under President Trump. It has done a bit high up brow, but not too much. And it used to be served in plastic in Kabul boxes. Now he's gone a bit more daring. Karan Nebitt and Margot Martin

and Stephen Chalm, the communicator, director, have all added their tastes to the menu and there's things like Tex-Mex and some Italian food on the menu. So he's kind of changed his, changed his menu for a bit. One intriguing story, which Sarah can say a little bit more about, is about how there's a movement to try and get the lawmakers to also take a pay cup while they're shuffing down the government. I mean, speaking of the swamp, we are going on 15 days of the government shutdown, and lawmakers have been not in Washington when it comes to the House specifically since their last vote was September 19th. And they have not returned for a vote since then. By the end of the week, it'll be a month.

And they're still getting paid. So while they threaten to furlough workers, they have threatened to not give them back pay. They announced that they're going to do mass layoffs. These lawmakers who have not been doing their job, not been negotiating, have been in their districts. They would argue they're working very hard in their districts. They are still being paid. And lawmakers make $174,000, which is triple the average salary of an American. And so there have been numerous lawmakers who have said they are not taking their salary.

There have been lawmakers who have said they're donating their salary. but at the end of the day, the vast majority are still getting paid to stay home from work. And so that contradicts with a lot of what has been said about work from home, about Washington, D.C., and about the fact that the government has to tighten the purse strings, doesn't have the money. So there has been a lot of talk on that front of getting paid to vacation, if you will. Perhaps Pete Heggseth, as he'll be giving fewer press conferences, because there won't be any press to cover him, will also donate part of his salary to those workers who are getting nothing right now.

Well, I can't recommend the swamp highly enough. We call it the page six of politics. I always look forward to it coming out because I know there's going to be some juicy detail in there. Thank you so much, both of you, for joining us. To everybody out there, if you haven't read The Swamp, you can sign up for it. Please subscribe. Subscribe to the Daily Beast too.

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