The Daily Beast Podcast - Pulse Shooting Survivor Tells How to Make Anti-LGBT Pols Pay

Episode Date: December 4, 2022

 Six years ago Brandon Wolf made a promise after his best friend was shot dead. He tells The New Abnormal’s Danielle Moodie how we can all make that promise a reality Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new

abnormal. And we thank you so much for being here. We have an extra special guest this week with Brandon Wolfe, who's of course a Pulse Nightclub survivor and the press secretary at Equality Florida. And he's going to talk to us all about gun violence in America today. But first, let's have some fun. All right, are you guys ready to listen to some clips? I'm bracing myself. Yes, I am excited. Sorry for yelling. Okay. Very cursed interaction here. One Larry Kudlow, former Trump advisor, back on TV, talking to Ted Cruz.

And I just want to say, guys, take some notes, because I expect to see you guys plug this podcast with the same enthusiasm. Oh, no. What's the remit? It's not just Marilago. It's not just January 6th. This thing could roam far and wide into who knows there. Yeah. Look, Larry, I've talked about this at great length on the podcast that I do three times a week, verdict with Ted Cruz, where we've gone in and explained what's going on inside at DOJ. God, you're a fucking U.S. Senator.

He's such a loser. He really is. God. It's like, guys, I have a club. I have a club. Is nobody coming to my club? My meetings are three times a week. Is everybody coming?

Can somebody come? That sounds like I'm in college. Look, we talk about what a loser, Ted Cruz is on our podcast, The New Abnormal, that we do three times a week. And we go into depth as to why Ted Cruz is such a loser on our podcast, the new abnormal. That airs three times a week. So I guess I get it. I don't know. Amazing.

He sucks. Funny enough, a watchdog group came down on him because apparently it is a very big conflict of interest for him to have. have that podcast on iHeart radio they think he should uh have an ethics investigation about it interesting i mean for that and so many other fucking things but sure yeah yes yes go after the podcast that 10 people listen to yeah then have a backbone investigation too oh okay i have another cursed interaction for us this one eclipse is the last by far one conier west and his new uh white supremacist racist, sexist, just all around Bigot Buddy, Nick Fuentes, went on the

Alex Jonas show. Is it like a buddy comedy? I have no words for what things got. Here it is. What did I? I thought. That's right. You're not Hitler. You're not a Nazi. You don't deserve to be called that and demonized. Well,

I see good things about Hitler also. The Jew, I love everyone. What? The well is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. And then he started to say the Jews. Kanye West, when you remember that this motherfucker said that he doesn't read books, right, that he doesn't read. So I'm like, what is it that, like, why are we listening to him?

Right? Because he does not read. He doesn't know anything. He literally applauds ignorance. And so to hear him say, like, oh, I love everybody. No, bitch. There are some people that you shouldn't fucking love. There are some people that are undeserving of love.

And I think that a man that massacred six million Jewish people, like, is probably on that fucking list. Yeah, I kind of feel like, you know, Mother Teresa is sitting there going, oh, Kanye, honey, no. That's not it. Yep, she's saying that's not it. That's not the one. The amazing thing is that Alex Jones is like the sanest person on that. Clip.

It's true. Like, he actually goes on to disagrees with Kanye. It's like, oh, my God. Alex Jones is pulling you back. Like, that's not good. That's how far gone we all know. I mean, and again, like the fucking tag team buddy comedy that is happening between Kanye West and Nick Fuentes, like, what's happening there?

What is going on in this time continuum that we are living in? This like shit show of a black hole, a fuckery. Yeah. Oh, God. I do have some news, though, on the reading thing. Kanye brought two props to the interview, a Bible and a bottle of you-hoo. Well? Oh, and a net.

Shabas informs me. A net? Net and you-who. I get it. Because he keeps talking about Benjamin, yet and you. Uh-uh. That ain't it. Mm-mm.

Oh, boy. Mm-mm. Okay. I have bad news, though. The crazy will continue, and the delusions of grandeur will continue. One Carrie Lake who just lost the governor's race in Arizona, she thinks she needs to make some sacrifices for her. I wish that somebody would say, you know what? Arrest me then.

I don't care. We need people with courage to say, class what felony? Go ahead. Go for it. Arrest me because this is a botched election and you're disenfranchising the folks in Mojave County when you allow this kind of an election in Maricopa County to stand. Anybody go to jail? for you, fool. Man, these people always want other people to get arrested for them.

Yep. Like, whether it's Trump on January 6th, Carrie Lake, Tucker Carlson has sort of told people they should go up to people on the street and yell at them, I think it was about masks or something like that. It's like, but they'll never do it themselves. No, because they're not real leaders. These are people that have in their heads this idea of this grandiosity that they have this grand army that they are pointing in the direction of those that they don't like and they're like,

they're going to go and get my election for me. No, they're not. It's done. It's over. You've lost. You are a loser. Loozer. So we now come to our reoccurring segment for I'm hoping that maybe next week will be the last one as we hope that Reverend Warnock will keep his Senate seat and defeat Herschel Walker. Andy, I know that you've often voiced your frustrations with, you know, laughing at Herschel for C.T. So I wanted to actually hopefully send us off with this segment of Herschel having the brain power to have a realization mid-statement. Mm-mm.

Security of the border. They say, how are you going to do that? That's the way I can do it then. You need to put up a wall, a wall to work, wall working around your house. You got a wall around your house. People don't know, but they can get in. But you know what? They get in and be hard to get out because I got a dog that, let my dog really want to bite,

But he put it bad anyway. But anyway, this is what I want to tell you. What we got to do right now, this is one of the most important election we can ever have in our lifetime. I just, I can't. I just. I can't. Like, what is he doing? Like, is he comparing people who are trying to seek asylum to his dog?

Is he talking about a house with walls? Like, what's happening? And the people in the audience, When they're laughing, what do you think that they are laughing at? Like their stupidity that they think that this man should be their representative or just like, what is it? I don't know. I can't answer that. I just, I can't.

I have a theory. Go. Go. Just like Ms. Lake, Herschel's a student of Mr. Trump. And if you recall, on this very podcast, we broke some news of that Trump wanted to have alligators on the other side of the wall for when the immigrants got over it. I think, you know, Herschel, you know, he's just not that good as student. He's not good to study.

Carrie Lake, best student of Trump there is, I think. I think student is doing a lot of work in the sense. Point taken, point taken. But, you know, he's just not quite getting it. You know, he has the realization, you know. And plus, you know, dogs are the greatest creatures on Earth. And he realizes that big sentence. I mean, it's not a hard choice, Georgia.

It's really, it really is. Thank you. It's not hard. That is, I think, all. that needs to be said. It's just, oh my God. Look, even if you agree with Herschel Walker on the issues, you can't. You can't. What issue? I don't know. I don't know. Abortion? Because he loves those. I know. I know. I just, I guess what I'm saying is even I don't, I don't care how conservative a Republican you are or how Trumpian a Republican you are. You cannot vote for this person. Well, that teased me up very well.

for the actual reality of that. Oh, God. So Georgia Republican lieutenant governor, who looks like a sentient Kendall meets Fox News anchor, wants us to know about his voting experience down in Georgia. I showed up to vote this morning. I was one of those folks who got in line and spent about an hour waiting.

And, you know, it was the most disappointing ballot I've ever stared at in my entire life since I started voting. You know, I had two candidates that I just couldn't find anything that made sense for me to put my vote behind. And so I walked out of that ballot box showing up. to vote, but not voting for either one of them. Well, I encourage all Republicans to follow his lead. Amazing.

Stand in line for an hour, and then you're looking at a ballot and you're saying to yourself, do I go with the werewolf vampire guy, or do I go with the Reverend Warnock who preaches at the church in the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King? It's such a tough fucking choice, so I think I'll just go home. and brush my hair. Did he not know who the candidates were before he got in the line? You would think, you know, the waiting on an hour would maybe make him think, hmm, this isn't right.

You'd think it maybe would have enough time to deliberate, but. I'm embarrassed for him that he went on television to tell people that he didn't cast a ballot, that like, that he stood in line for an hour. Because also your voter suppression helped you stand in line for an hour. I was just going to say, yeah. So like people, yeah, I go with Andy. Go ahead. All Republicans, follow that path. Stand in line and don't vote. You know what? Don't even stand in line.

Don't show up. Just stay home. Stay home. Watch. Really excited. And excited, I guess, is really not the right word. But I am always excited when I have the opportunity to talk to somebody who embodies as much rage and frustration at our current system. And Brandon Wolf nationally recognized for gun safety and your LGBTQ civil rights advocacy. You are a survivor of the Pulse Night Club shooting that happened, which I cannot believe, was six years ago. But the other day, Brandon, I was sitting in my living room, as I normally do have on cable news, and I'm watching you with one of my friends, Dr. David Johns, and give your thoughts, express your thoughts on Club Q. another LGBTQ shooting, right, aimed at our community, aimed at terrorizing our community. And I just want to thank you, first off, for expressing the type of rage that these moments require and not just, you know, saying what is the right thing to say and the right way to say because you're on TV.

So I just want to go back to that moment and ask you, as Joy, was asking you your thoughts and your feelings because here we are six years later and in between, let's just understand, in between these two definitive shootings, there have been so many. There have been hundreds, right? The headlines only catch the big, big ones.

I want to ask you how you were feeling in that moment and how you're feeling now. Well, thank you for calling that out. And we have an obligation to be angry. We have a right to be angry because this is what we've been telling people would happen at the end of the day. This is what we warned would be the inevitable consequences of this. I want to call it diabolical hysteria that has been whipped up by the right wing in this country.

We always told them that someone was going to pay the price for the words coming out of their mouths. And we said that it would be people who are most directly impacted by their words. It would be queer people. It would be trans and non-binary people. So when Joy invited me on, I'll tell you at the beginning of that, day and the day before, I started with grief. I started with this intense sadness because not only was another safe space invaded, like the one that was invaded on June 12th of 2016 in my community, not only were there more people whose lives were stolen from us, but I was also feeling grief

because I know what they're going to go through. I know what the next week is going to look like. I know what the next month is going to look like. I know what the next years are going to look like. I know that when the cameras turn off and people go about their daily lives, that there's still a hole in their lives where people used to be, where a safe space used to be. And so my instant reaction when I wake up is that grief, it's that heartbreak. And then immediately it morphs into rage and fury, which I think is different than what people felt after Pulse in 2016. At that time, it felt a little bit more shocking.

It felt like it was out of the blue. It felt sudden. But it doesn't feel sudden anymore because we've. spent the last five or six years being berated and demoralized, demeaned, dehumanized by the right wing. We've been told that simply by existing, we pose a threat to children. And so, you know, as I thought about what I wanted to say, and as Joy was asking the question, I was just filled with so much fury. Fury for the five people whose lives were stolen in Colorado Springs. Fury for the dozens of people who were in hospital beds trying to recover from their injuries. Fury for the families

who had to pick out caskets and flowers for their 25-year-old kids and fury for an entire community that told people this is what would happen. If they didn't watch their mouths, if they didn't tone down the rhetoric, if they didn't stop building their political careers, their short-term ambitions on the backs of the most marginalized people in our country, someone was going to get hurt, someone was going to get killed, and it happened, exactly like we told them it would. So in that moment, and even today, I think you can see,

still sense it. I feel a deep sense of fury and rage that this is exactly what we warned about. And, you know, unfortunately, it's five people who had to pay the ultimate price for that. And they're never coming back. You live in a state that I swear I won't step foot in until Death Santis, the embodiment of, I think, all that is evil and all that is wrong is removed from that state. And the reality is that right after the club, shooting. Tucker Carlson went on yet another disgusting fucking anti-LGBQ, anti-trans rant spent the entirety of his show going after the community. You had other right-wing people get on social media and say, well, they were going to hell anyway. And what troubles me, Brandon, is that the mainstream media

does not connect the dots in the way that you are connecting the dots. Does not connect the dots between don't say gay legislation, anti-trans legislation, the criminalizing of parents that are trying to get gender-affirming health care for their children to violence. And, you know, and I hear the fury because I share it, because I share that every time there is a shooting, whether it is Buffalo at the supermarket that is directed at black people, whether it is at a synagogue, whether it is at a movie theater, whether it is at a high school or a queer club, I feel less safe because I live at the intersections of multiple identities of being black and queer and a child of immigrants and all of these things.

And I wonder, are we trying to appeal to the wrong people? Because we say, this is what happens with your words, but they know that, Brand. that's why they keep speaking in the way that they do. That's why they keep tweeting in the way that they do. So what message do we need to be sending and who does it need to be directed towards because the ones that are causing the most harm are gleeful at our deaths,

are gleeful at our pain? And so what do you think that we need to be doing? Well, that's why what you heard me say on that episode of The Readout was that they couldn't help themselves because the truth is they have faced no accountability for their words. They face no accountability for their actions. Think about the don't say gay bill, now the don't say gay law.

When it started, there was a sense that there may be some accountability, that maybe the right wing had taken it just a little too far. It was widely criticized in the media. It was all over social media. Young people were walking out of schools. It felt like maybe this was a moment where the right wing would face some accountability for their anti-LGB rhetoric. And instead, it propelled Ron to say,

to a larger win than he might have had in Florida. It propelled him to raise the most money any gubernatorial candidate has raised in United States history. It was a cornerstone of his re-election campaign. And he has become synonymous with the anti-LGB crusade that is being waged across the country. And so the question of what do we do, I think, is part of why My Fury was tuned on that particular audience and yes, members of the media, because we have to ask ourselves, when will they face accountability. There is no world where we're going to talk the right wing off this ledge. There's

no world where we're going to talk politicians like Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott into being more reasonable. They don't care. Their only intent is to see themselves on Fox News more often, to be wannabe reality television stars trending on social media as frequently as possible, to raise boatloads of money to amass more power, wealth, and fame. That is the ultimate goal. And the only way to stop them from trafficking in these age-old anti-LGBQ tropes, the only way to stop them from putting LGBTQ people and other marginalized communities in harm's way is to make them face accountability for it. They have to lose their jobs.

They have to lose donors. They have to see their public perception fade. They have to see their names in a negative light. They've got to see people like Tucker Carlson stop inviting them on the show. Tucker Carlson has to see advertisers flee the show so that he can no long. by that third Rolls-Royce or go on that fourth vacation to Abiza. These people need to face real accountability for the way in which they have created a toxic environment in our country. That is the only answer. And so, again, I think that's why my frustration, my anger,

my fury, has been tuned on what are we going to do about it? What are we going to do next? Because the answer can't be we just keep having these conversations. We just keep debating in an open forum or running to our ecosystems, we've got to organize, we've got to mobilize, and we've got to make sure that these cynical and sinister right-wing actors face real accountability for the things they are doing to marginalize people in this country. One of the issues here is that Trumpism and Magadam has been given voice and oxygen and light and has been treated as if this ideology, that is based and steeped in hate, has some merit, right?

Has some merit for discussion. And what I have found since I have been on the front lines fighting for LGBTQ equality since the early 2000, since before marriage equality was actualized, is the fact that when you couch a community as making their existence, their very existence up for debate and discussion, we're already losing.

That's right. And so when we can continue, to have conversations and not have a pushback to 1980s tactics of referring to queer people as groomers and pedophiles. And we say nothing. And by we, I mean, those that have platforms, I mean the Democratic establishment really say nothing. They don't, they say, oh, you know, it's like a bully in a schoolyard. We'll just walk away. Well, then the bully turns around and beats the shit out of you, right? And until that bully gets knocked down, they're going to keep coming to attack you. So one of the tweets that you would put out, and it's something I feel like,

you know, I yelled this out into the ether was, we just want to live. Is that too much to ask? You tweeted that last month, and I said to myself, that's it. That's it. But the reality is they don't want us to live. You know, I spoke with young 15, 16, 17 year old queer kids as part of the It Gets Better Project. They went to the Youth Summit last month. And it was the first, time that they were able to be around other queer kids outside of, you know, being online. And they talked about being used as political footballs and not being seen as like real people with real feelings. And so I'm wondering how we humanize, not again, to those rabid, far right people who we're never going to get, but to those that kind of sit by and say, well, you know,

it's their religion that doesn't allow this. It's everyone has their own opinions and saying that our ability to exist shouldn't be up for debate. Yeah, I think it's severalfold. You know, one of the first things that I have said and will continue to say is that the media plays a huge role in that because they determine whose stories are told and in what context they're told. Listen, I'm a press secretary full time. So I interface with the media all the time. I have a lot of love for my friends in the media, but we have work to do in that space. And one of the things that we need to see done is we've got to stop legitimizing far-right ideologies that don't have legitimacy on the political stage. We're not debating the merits of, you know, an economic policy that

can change unemployment or inflation by one or two percent. We can have those kind of debates, but debating the humanity of our friends, our family members, our neighbors, that's not up for debate. things do not need to be legitimized. We need to, as an infrastructure, as a body politic, as a society, say there are certain things that are just not acceptable. We do not traffic in tropes about LGBTQ people. We do not insinuate that people are a threat to children simply because they were born the way they are. That is not true. It's not legitimate. And we don't traffic in those things. And when we hear it, we call it out. We stop inviting those people to do interviews because we know that we're just going to give them a megaphone. So I think we've got to start on the media side. And we're

with being much more diligent and firm in the standards that we have. We've got to stop legitimizing right-wing talking points and ideologies and saying they're just another side of the coin or another side of the aisle. We've got to say we're not dehumanizing people on this show. We're just not going to do it. So if you want to do that, do it on your own Twitter feed, but we're not giving you this multi-billion dollar platform to echo it across the world. And then the question becomes as a community, as organizers, what do we do?

And I think a lot about the LGBTQ civil rights movement in general, because this is not the first time we've been in this position, right? This is not the first time our backs have been against the wall. But we've always found a way. We've found a way to make progress. We've found a way to push things forward. And the way we've done that is by being unapologetic, by being unashamed, by putting our stories, our lived experiences first, right? Think about the Stonewall riots. The Stonewall riots were a resistance to police violence.

They were stuffing a black lesbian woman into the back of a car and injuring her in the process. And people said, we're not going to take it anymore. And in the process, they also formed the Christopher Street Liberation Day parade, right? And that became pride as we know it today. That was an effort to tell our stories, to be bold and audacious and unapologetic in our identities. Same thing during the HIV and AIDS crisis. People fighting, scratching, clawing to be seen as human to have their existence dignified. They were willing to put their bodies on the line, knowing they would go to jail and face physical and emotional harm for doing so to say we deserve to be seen.

Look at me. See me as a human. See my entire story. You know, you think about the marriage equality fight. The same thing. People willing to stand on the steps of courthouses across the country hold hands and say, my love is love. It is just as valuable as anyone else's at every step along the way. LGBTQ community has made progress by being unapologetic,

by being unafraid and by leaning into our lived experiences. Because at the end of the day, the right-wing strategy is baked in the hope, in the assumption that people do not know what it's like to be LGBTQ. The entire debate around the trans existence is a hope and assumption by the right wing that people in this country don't know what it's like to be trans. So they can create a monster under the bed. They can create this boogeyman out of whole cloth because they're assuming that you don't know what it's like to be trans. And the challenge then for us inside the community, for organizers,

is to make people understand what it's like to have those lived experiences, to put those stories first, to put those faces first, to tell the stories of people in our community, not just when they're in a state of crisis, but when they're living alongside everyone else. At every step of the way, that's how we've made progress with our backs against the wall. And I firmly believe that Gen Z has figured that out, that millennials have figured that out. That's why you see them living more audaciously and boldly than ever. And I think that's the answer moving forward. You know, at a time when I try and hold on to that mustard seed of hope, when I waver and vacillate between rage and grief and trying to use joy as a state of resistance, is it Generation Z,

is it young people that are giving you hope that we will battle through these dark times? Because I have to be honest, I don't know if I'm going to see, lived equality in my lifetime. I think that the purpose of our work is to keep pushing forward and to take our own egos out of what it is that we actually believe that we will see and we can point to. And so what is giving you hope and what can you tell, you know, the new abnormal listeners who also are with us in that vacillation, what can continue to give them hope? What can they hold on to? It's a great question and it's the right question because the other part of the right-wing strategy is to sap you of hope. They're trying really hard to make

a give up, to make themselves feel inevitable, to crack your spirit. But in the absence of hope is only despair. And so our only option is to hope for a better future, a better world. You know, I'll tell you a short story that six days after the shooting at Pulse, we had a funeral service for my best friend, Drew. And to date, it's one of the hardest days of my entire life. I remember trying to write my eulogy in the car and my hand was shaking so bad that I could barely get the pen to the paper. His mom asked me to be a pallbearer that day, and as I was helping to push his casket down the aisle, I found myself gripping the side of it so tightly

that my knuckles were turning white. And it's because I didn't want to let go of my best friend until I'd found the right words to say goodbye to him. We got to the front of the church, and I looked down at his casket, and I made him a promise, just between the two of us. I said, I will never stop fighting for a world that you would be proud of. And I knew in that moment that I may never see that.

that world, that I never see the fruits of my labor, that I may never see full equality in this country or around the globe, but I had to know that it was worth fighting for. So you asked me what's giving me hope, and I'm thinking about that promise that I made my best friend, and the fact that it's young leaders who are living out loud, they are the ones that are making good on that promise. That it's never just been about me fighting the battle on my own or going out and winning some, you know, policy debate on a federal level. It's always been about empowering a new generation of young people to believe in a future that is better than the present, to believe in a world that values them, no matter who they are, where they came from, what their identity is,

to believe in a world where they can thrive, where they have all the resources they need to be successful. And so when I see these young leaders mobilizing each other to the polls, using social media and TikTok to inform one another. When I see powerful 16 and 17 year olds walking out of school in Florida to demand environments that see them, that celebrate them in their full identities, that gives me a lot of hope. Because for me, that is the embodiment of fighting for a world, not just that my best friend would be proud of, but that all of us can be proud of, a world that all of us deserve. That's what's giving me hope today. And I want listeners to know that it may get darker before it gets brighter. It's a difficult time in our country where maybe more divided than ever,

but just look to the future because that's what young people are doing and they see a lot of inspiration and hope in it. And so I'm just going to follow them on that path. Brandon Wolf, I can't thank you enough for your advocacy, for your voice, for your passion, for your rage, and for your hopefulness. I really appreciate the time that you gave us today. Anytime. Thank you. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of The New Abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going.

This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the Beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.

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