The Daily Beast Podcast - Ron Johnson’s Opponent Wants Inside Traders Out of Congress

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

Is Ron Johnson the worst Senator? That’s what The New Abnormal co-host Molly Jong-Fast wants to know. Naturally, she asks Mandela Barnes, the Lieutenant Governor of Wisconsin and Johnson’s opponent in next year’s Senate election, who shares his plan of attack if he wins the seat. Then co-founder of Run for Something Amanda Litman reveals the GOP’s plan to take over politics for good and Obama’s former Education Secretary John King talks about the two biggest ways Republicans fuck over our education system. If you haven't heard, every single week The New Abnormal does a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, the Daily Beast’s membership program. where Sometimes we interview Senators like Cory Booker or the folks who explain our world in media like Jim Acosta or Soledad O’Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner and sometimes it's just discussing the fuckery. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a Beast Inside member where you’ll support The Beast’s fearless journalism. Plus! You’ll also get full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy holidays. We're off for this week, but before we left our respective podcast studios, we recorded some amazing interviews with some people. We're really excited to talk about this upcoming midterm election season in 2022. We have Mandela Barnes, who's presently a lieutenant governor of Wisconsin, is running for Senate next year to unseat Rush Aron Johnson. Then we'll talk to to former education secretary, John Kigg, who's running for governor in Maryland. But first, we're joined by Run for Something's Amanda Lipman to talk to us about what you can do to get involved and make sure we don't lose the bid terms. Welcome to the new abnormal, Amanda.

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Molly. Always fun to be on with friends. Well, I'm always happy to have you on because you are doing God's work, as we say. Because you've been on the podcast and you've talked about Run for Something before, give us like the two-minute pitch for like our fathers who might have missed an episode. Run for Something recruits and supports young diverse progressives running for local office all across the country. Since we launched in 2017 on Trump's inauguration day, we've identified nearly 90,000 young people in all 50 states who want to run.

We've endorsed at this point more than 2,000. We've helped elect 637 people in 48 states, mostly women, mostly people of color, all its positions like city council, state legislature, school board, library board, county supervisors, and really building the bench from the ground up. That's really great. and something we really need. Jesse and I have seen a lot of crazy shit going on with the school boards. We've all seen the videos of the people screaming at each other. Is the on the ground local election world that crazy? Yes.

And I think it's getting easier. Oh, that's not good. I know. It's really scary to say, but actually I think it's a point of opportunity. We have seen the worst parts of the Republican Party, Hew and on, proud boys, oathkeepers. You know, at this point, anti-democracy Republicans deeply engage in local politics because they understand that when they're trying to win a national fight, they have to be able to rig the structures in order to win. You have to control what kind of education your kids are getting.

You have to control who's running local elections. You have to control state legislatures in order to set up the structures so that their candidates who are, as we know, less popular and their ideas, which are much less popular, are able to win any. way. But what this shows us is that we have a real opportunity if we can deeply invest in a meaningful way right now when it matters most that like we can keep the worst possible parts of the other party from gaining this kind of stronghold and power or gaining further strongholds in power. Why is right now when it matters most? Because if we don't do it now, we might never get another chance. I think it's like we often say every election is the most important election of our lifetime. But next two years, 2022 and 2023 in particular.

there will be thousands of local election administrative roles on the ballot. That's people who control how elections are run in every town and in Wisconsin and Michigan, in every county in Texas, local election oversight positions in Pennsylvania. And when you think about what happens in 2024, assuming Trump runs again, or even if he doesn't, the way that they're going to try and win the election is not by winning hearts and minds, but by ensuring that the votes get counted by people who are on their side. So we have to ensure right now when it matters most. We still have a chance to have some say over who's actually administering these elections,

that we've got good people who are pro voter and pro-democracy in the positions. Otherwise, you know, we can run and we probably will run a billion dollars worth of advertising in 2024, and it won't matter. That's really scary. I've been hearing this a lot, but for some reason it's even scarier now. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think it's, we've got a chance. Like, this is it. Republicans had did, like, 2020 was the dry run for the coup. They tried all different kinds of ways. I know you guys have talked about this a bunch. They had violence at the Capitol. They had canvassing boards that they tried to protest. They had state legislatures, you know, trying to debate sending different electors. But the way that they have found, I think, to be the most effective is by controlling it at the local level. So we're trying to fight back. As a person who is listening to this right now, what should they do? What is the thing they should do? Run for office. They should run for office. Every person who listens to this podcast should think about running for office.

You can think about it for 2022. And in most states, it's not too late. The Texas filing deadline has already passed, but nearly everywhere else, it's not too late to get on the ballot in 2022. Or you should start thinking about 2023 or even 2024. If you're not ready to run, start thinking about how you can volunteer locally. You know, you're a federal candidate. your governor candidates, even, your Senate races, your congressional races, they're going to have a lot of money, they're going on ads, they're going to do all of the things that they need to do to win. But their maps to win, and the places where we know Republicans are investing to run and win locally do not overlap. So you need to be the bulwark for our values on the local level. So knock doors for a city council race, go make calls for a school board candidate. Like be one of the five volunteers total who show up for the county clerk position. It will be so meaningful when the shit hits the can, whatever the expression is, when the shit hits the can.

It's going to really matter who's in charge of these small positions because it'll have a big impact. Do you feel like Democrats are up for this fight? It's almost too late, but we can get there. I am really heartened to know that 2021 was run for something's best recruitment year yet. And you would have thought it would have been in the Trump era. No, 2021, more than 20,000 people raise their hands. I think we're actually up to about 25,000. in the calendar year alone.

That's a lot of people thinking about running for office. And we know that about 10% of the people who sign up with us and say, maybe actually end up saying yes. So it's a lot of people. And I think we know that the crisis of the moment requires massive amounts of investment in things to support these local races and, you know, structure around them and volunteer engagement and advertising and voter contact and communication.

All of that just requires ways. more attention to things that are much smaller and much harder to do and much harder to see candidly than things like, I don't know, $90 million to a Senate candidate. We're going to have to try. Tell us about a candidate that you're excited about. There's so many good ones and we are just getting started with 2022. But I'm really excited by a young woman, Nabila Saeed, who's running for Illinois House District 51. She's a young Muslim woman.

She's an organizer. She's an educational advocate. She's running for a state house. She's young. She's, I think, like her early 20s. She's really excited about climate change, health care. She's really active in her religious community. I think it's just, it's really cool to see young leaders step up and deeply engage with their community and know that, especially when young people run, their campaign staff are young. Their volunteers are young. You know, the people who know them are all their friends, their family, their classmates. It's a really cool way, I think, to bring young people into the process. Do you think that we could win in places like, we had a candidate on a while ago who became kind of Jesse and I's favorite, Hank for Texas. And Hank for Texas was running against Louis Gomer, one of the worst people in this Congress and possibly in the world. And he described how hard it was to raise money, but also how the polls were not open at the time they were supposed to be open. And there were proud boys harassing people at his rallies.

And, I mean, he was already explaining in Texas's first district that they, he was not getting a fair vote. Is there anything that Democrats can do right now to combat that? I think we've got to give our candidates as much support as possible. And that doesn't just mean like money and time, but also community, you know, moral support, which seems really silly, but it's actually really important. You know, 60% of run for something candidates told us their greatest source of resiliency was a relationship with another candidate because it's really lonely and really hard.

And very few people understand what you're going through. So as much as we can to like connect the dots for people and show them that, especially for these candidates, that you're running for office is a hard thing to do. And it's not hard because you're stupid. It's not hard because you're failing. It's hard because it's fucking hard. And that we are here and we've got your back. I am so scared, I think, for a lot of folks who are running this year. I think the violence on the other side is more prominent than ever. So we got to make sure that especially for young women, young people of color, young women of color, young women of color, running for office that like they've got a vocal team on their side that can really stand up for them and with them. Yeah, that is really scary. Like in Michigan, there are three really great women running for re-election. They have groups in Michigan that are pretty scary. Yeah. It's hard to know what to do because we don't ever want to resort to the same kind of violence. Like, that's not an option. Right. Certainly not. But we want to keep people safe. We want to keep people safe. We want to keep campaign volunteers safe. So remember something's working with a bunch of folks who are experts,

especially in things like cybersecurity and digital security to see what we can do about some of the online harassment and the doxing that some of our candidates get. But especially for in-person stuff, it's making sure that especially these young women, young people of color aren't knocking doors alone, that they have big teams with them, that they're really practicing as best as they can. Security best practices as they can. It's something we're really exploring for what else we can do for folks in 2022. Jesus, that's pretty scary. Let's say you're the type of person who doesn't feel that they should run, but that you know somebody who should run. How do people support the idea of this and how do people get behind other people they think could be leaders? So if you've got a friend or a

colleague, maybe your family member who you think should run for office, when you should ask them. You probably are the first or one of the few to ask them, but you start to plant the seed. When you do ask them to run and tell them that they should run, promise to be one of the first. You're going to their first volunteers and their first donors, even if you can only give five bucks or 10 bucks, even if you can only commit one afternoon of knocking doors and knowing they've got you in their pocket really helps. And if you know someone who thinks should run and maybe like they're not ready yet, start talking about them to other people and like you can organize someone into running for office. You can run your own like ready for for Jane campaign or ready for Jesse,

ready for Molly campaign to get them to think about running for office. God, you got there before where I could get there. Don't bring me into this. Okay. Thank you. This was shaming you for not supporting me. You got it wrong. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Jesse, you should definitely run for office. That's what I was thinking. That'll stop a lot of our problems. It's so hard. But you just, you got to be like,

you got to want to do it for the right reasons. And if you've got that right reason, it makes everything else a lot easier. Okay. Lastly, what can you tell our listeners to just call of action? They're going to wake up on January 3rd. They're going to be motivated and want to do that new year, new me list and get involved.

What are they doing? So first, they're going to run for what. And they're looking up where they can run in 2022. They're going to start getting contacted. Contacted by Run for Something and we'll plug you in and make sure you have everything you need to succeed. Other thing you can do is go to the Run for Something website, which is run for something. And you can find a local run for something endorsed candidate to work with. We've already endorsed about 60 folks for 2022, but I expect us to endorse nearly.

really 700, if not more. So there will be one near you in at least the next couple months. You know, you got to wait until these filing deadlines come up before we can really go big. But there will be someone near you you can work with. We can either connect you directly to them or you can go to their website, knock doors, make calls, give them money. It's so meaningful. You really get to know the candidate. You get to have a personal relationship with them and with their team and win or lose. You're part of something really special. I think local politics is also just like so much more sustainable for the morale, like paying attention to Congress sucks. It feels bad. Paying attention to like city councils and school boards is certainly

harder, but the winds feel more immediate and then you live them, walk them, you bike them, you drive them. It's really cool. And I think it helps you feel like this matters, which it does. I think that you make an amazing point there. I really was one of those people when I moved where I live now that didn't feel like the local politics to do it. And then I'd see how much it changed when I was going to those meetings and it really did feel meaningful. It's so important. I see this like as a New Yorker, we're about to have a new mayor. We have a new city council taking their office over this last week.

It's so cool to see like the woman I met when she was thinking about running for city council is now going to push to make sure that the subway is more accessible for people with disabilities. It's awesome. That's great. Right. That is great. Thank you. Thank you for coming on.

Hey, folks. If you haven't heard, every single week we do a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, The Daily Beast membership program. Sometimes we interview senators like Corey Booker or the folks who explain what's happening behind the scenes in media like Jim Acosta or Soladadad O'Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner

and sometimes we just have friends around to analyze what's happening in the news. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a Beast Inside member where you'll support the Beast fearless journalism as well as getting full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member, head to new abnormal. That's new abnormal.thedailybeast.com. Mandela Barnes is presently the lieutenant governor of Wisconsin

and is running for Senate next year to unseat Russia Ron Johnson. Welcome to the new abnormal Mandela Barnes. Hey, thank you so much for having me. I wanted to have you because you are the lieutenant governor of one of the most important states in this country. For many reasons. For many reasons. For many reasons.

important for very many reasons. Do you feel like you're in the center of a hurricane? We always feel like we're in the center of a hurricane. It is the perpetual state that we're in. You know, when it comes to our presidential elections, all lies around Wisconsin. And now this midterm, which hasn't always really been the case. But, you know, I think that people see our track record, our most recent statewide races, the successes that Democrats have seen, people are looking to make sure that we expand the Senate defeating Ron Johnson next year. Is Ron Johnson the worst senator? I can say that he is very far away from doing the best job.

Certainly among, I mean, it's just the constant disregard for not just the will of the people, but the needs of the people. I think that's the most frustrating for me, whether it's providing relief and support to middle-class families, whether it is the constant denial of climate change, whether it is the denial of the pandemic and some of the very absurd suggestions that he's made over the last couple years. He's really gone all. I mean, I've seen Ron Johnson do a lot of really nutty stuff, but he's really gone all in on the pandemic denialism. Why does he care? I literally, I would drive myself mad trying to get into his brain, trying to figure out why. I literally, I have no idea. I don't,

I don't know what it could possibly mean. There's no obvious answer. here. Maybe it's just to be contrarian. Some people like to be contrarian. However, it is getting people sick. It is causing more illness. And unfortunately, people are continuing to lose their lives as a result of the spread of the virus. Yes. And also, it just is a complete and utterly insane thing to be doing and that benefits the people of Wisconsin in no way. So let's talk about your plan to the things you want to do when you become a senator. And I think that I would love to talk to you about how you're going to get big money out of politics. It's funny, though, because a lot of the crazy stuff that's happening on the right now is these people trying to get small dollar

donations. Yeah. Who could have seen that coming, right? I did not see that coming. Many of us wouldn't have, even if they're doing that. They're still taking corporate pack money. They're still getting their campaigns funded by most wealthy and out of touch people in our society. So we shouldn't let the small dollar donations, the handful of small dollar donations that they get foolish. We know their hearts lie. We know their political interest lie. And it's not with the American people. And I've been endorsed by In Citizens United because of my pledge to get big money out of politics. We have to reduce the influence of corporations in our governing institutions at every level, local, state and federal. And so I do, you know, I look at this phrase. I'm really excited that we got

involved in it because there's so many issues that continue to be ignored. The Senate does not deliver for the average working person in my home state of Wisconsin. And the same can be said for the entire country because of the influence of big money in our politics. We need bold action on the climate. That is the work I've been both deeply involved in. And my time as Lieutenant Governor, creating a comprehensive plan for the state of Wisconsin to be a leader again in this country and addressing the climate crisis. What would bold action on climate look like? Well, that requires large-scale investment in renewable energy. We have to reduce our emissions, but we also should look at the economic opportunities that come along with that. I remind people all

the time. My dad was a third shift auto worker. He is still a very active UAW retiree. And in his 30 years, the assembly line, he assembled catalytic converters. Now, we only had to have catalytic converters after the EPA, after the Clean Air Act required new emission standards for vehicles on the road. The catalytic converter was being created. People had to build them, and we built them right here in America. And that's what we have to get back to doing. And that also, you know, the more we build in America, the fewer supply chain issues we have, the more economic opportunities we have for communities like the one I come from. Now, the zip code that I was born in is our state's porous, nation's most incarcerated zip code.

But I'll tell you, when my grandfather moved to Milwaukee after serving in World War II, Milwaukee, Wisconsin was the best place for a black family. Today is like the polar opposite because of the opportunities that have been taken away because of de-industrialization because of large corporations moving their operations overseas. And there has been no real relief, no significant relief, to uplift the same communities and families. And now I look at addressing climate change is one, a thing that will have. an incredibly positive health benefit for people in these same communities because marginalized

communities bear the brunt of climate change, although having the least to do with it. But also the job creation that will come as a result of what helped lift so many people out of poverty out of poverty. It would help recreate, regenerate our declining middle class with union jobs, with good-paying jobs that put food on the table or one job will be just enough for a person instead of what we're dealing with today. So I say reducing our carbon emissions, but also doing the work to involve even more people in the conversation. Wisconsin is an agriculture state.

Many times our farmers get fingers pointed at them, but I like to remind people it's not the cow, it's the how. We can have more sustainable agriculture and farming practices. We can implement more regenerative practices that would go a long way to help our struggling family farmers who have been going bankrupt at an alarming rate in this state and across this country. but it would do some good for our plan. And it would also help put healthy food on the plates of, on the tables of families who've been subject to poor food quality because we have a broken food system in this country. And so we have to address this at every level.

Transportation, again, agriculture, you have to look at the economic benefits, education, forestry, food systems, resilience, so many other ways that we can combat climate change. But it's going to take a broad approach. It is going to take us given. everything we possibly have putting every, every, every bit of our efforts to address in the crisis. There was a chance today to talk about members of Congress not owning stocks and Nancy Pelosi shut it down. I thought that was a real missed opportunity for Democrats. What do you think? So we just released a democracy package. It was the first thing we came out with because our democracy is always in peril.

It seems more fragile than it's ever. been with states attacks on voting rights with partisan gerrymandering, being front and center right now as more states adopt these rig maps. A part of that democracy proposal is also accountability provisions. And one of those provisions included prohibiting members of Congress and trading stocks. So I do absolutely support banning members of Congress from trading stocks, especially when people are legislating and regulating these industries. Like, that's just that's just not the way things should go. And I think it makes people lose faith in the system if there's a financial interest. And that's one of the other problems, too, right? There's money in politics. And then there's the money within politicians. Not only are there industries that are being protected. A lot of folks are there protecting their own wealth and the wealth of their friends.

You know, you look at the number of ultra wealthy people in Congress right now. It's not representative of the economic situation that most Americans are dealing with. And that's what this campaign is about. I always talk about change in the game, but most importantly, it's about bringing real representation on multiple fronts to a body that does not reflect the American experience. If Democrats aren't going to do this, Republicans sure aren't. I mean, Democrats have chosen to be the moral. I mean, they've also chosen to be the party that is that believes in democracy. But if Democrats don't try, there's no one else who will, right?

This is something we should be supporting as a party as a movement because if people don't believe that, you know, the government, that Congress or even state legislatures across the country are looking out for them, then why would they show up to vote for us? Why would they show up and participate in the process at all? One of the things that we've seen in states where Democrats have won is that they've really registered voters. Is that happening in Wisconsin? Well, definitely we are working to register voters. There are a number of organizations on the ground that have been doing the engagement work that's not just during the election cycle, right? It is the off year where it truly matters, where people aren't being inundated by political

communications. And I mean, even one thing, too, like even if we go back to issues of trusting government and politics, I mean, you can look at a person like Ron Johnson. He's doubled his personal wealth over a decade in Washington. is the kind of stuff that people are upset and frustrated about. And so, yeah, we are doing the work to make sure voters are being registered, to make sure that we bring new people into the process because there's a tremendous opportunity for us to engage people who've been disaffected, disenfantanted with the process. You know, you always get the question in a state like Wisconsin.

Like, what are you going to do to win over some of those people who, you know, voted for Trump? And my thing is there are a lot of people out there call the 2020 election. into question because people like Ron Johnson have continued to peddle these lies and conspiracy theories. And my thing is, you know, a lot of folks who, people who believe that, the chances of getting them on board with this campaign slim enough. But there are people who have been dealing with some of the worst situations, you know, over the course of this pandemic, we've seen the wealth of billionaires increase in additional $2 trillion, while six to seven billion people have found themselves in poverty for the very first time. These are people who need some help.

And these are the people who feel like there's nobody out there looking for them. And so we're taking out, we're taking our message directly to the people. We are hopeful that the efforts to register new voters across the state will be successful. You know, when things are wrong, you know, when there is this lack of trust or lack of faith in a process, the only answer is even more democracy. So we want to bring as many people on board with this campaign as possible. We are doing the work in communities to make it. happen. And we're talking about the bold solutions. I mean, we're talking about bold climate

solutions that get at the heart of the problem. And the thing is, Wisconsin is so unique in many regards, you know, when we have a conversation about, let's say, a green new deal, for example, like what does that look like for Wisconsin? It'll be different than it looks in a California or Florida. When we operate in a manner that specific to, you know, our home state, we get to those very specific industries that made us strong in the first place. We make them more resilient. We make them more sustainable. And we also create opportunities for long-term growth for families all across the state and across the country. That's really good. Let's ask you about the filibuster. So say you're in the Senate right now

and let's say there are 51 Democratic senators. What do you do? We see again and again. It seems like it's Kristen Cinema and Joe Manchin standing between the demolition of the filibuster. What would you do? Oh, we got to get rid of the filibuster. I mean, that's a part of our democracy package, getting rid of the filibuster. So we can pass things like the John Lewis Voter Rights Act. So we can pass legislation that actually benefits the American people. We are able to deliver on our promise, not just even our promise is Democrats, our promise of a functioning society.

Like, there's no reason we should be experiencing the level of poverty that we experience in this country. There's no reason people should be saddled with stooped with Stunle. There's no reason people should be saddled. with all the other economic issues that they continue to deal with. And this is going on for far too long. If we get rid of the filibuster, we can actually do the work to benefit folks and get people the health that they deserve. And I look at it in terms of the support that most wealthy individuals get in this country again, like with the tax bill that benefited some of the wealthiest people in this country,

it's time for us to do the work to get people out of poverty and to rebuild and expand. and this middle class so that the opportunities that I personally had, you know, my parents were modest middle income earners, but they were still able to create a foundation that allowed me to be able to have this conversation with you today to be a candidate for the U.S. and now. I'm not saying everybody, you know, has to run for office for something that they so choose. Of course, they should be able to pursue it. But there are also other industries, education, law, health care, where people aren't able to reach their most full potential. And they are able to go out and make the difference in the world that they could possibly make. And I see getting rid of the

filibuster as one that would help unlock the potential of this country. We were talking about this before. Like, Democrats are not going to be able to appeal to the people like the Q&ON people or the Trumpy people who have just, you know, are living in a kind of bifurcated reality. There are a lot of people in this country who haven't voted or who are young, disenfranchised. Exactly. That was the, that the point that I wanted to make earlier is that there are a lot of people who just feel like there isn't a place for them. And this campaign is here to say there is a place for you, especially for the folks who had, they forgot, especially the people who've been left behind. When we do the work to improve quality of life, it's not the expense of other people in this country. That's

not work that would harm people who are currently in the middle class. This is a plan to help people. Increasing the middle class is good for everybody. Yeah, you know, so you guys have a plan to sort of register those voters. Well, exactly. And I come from grassroots organizing, you know, right at the college, my first job, I was a field organizer on a congressional race in northwest Louisiana. Later on down the line, I became an organizer with an issue-based interfaith organization that advocated social justice and issues of jobs and economic development,

education, immigration reform, and treatment instead of prison, along with many other issues, democracy and transportation being being chief among them. So with that being said, in my previous work, the work that led me to running for a seat in the State Assembly in 2012 was engaging not just disaffected voters, but engaging people and communities that have been left behind on a number of issues that impacted them where they felt like government wasn't being as responsive as it should have been.

And that's what led me, to run in 2012 for state representative. And, you know, the issues are still the same. The motivation is still the same. And there isn't a whole lot, a whole lot different in my motivation from 2012 until now. I interviewed Rocahnah recently, and we were talking about the problem with the chips, that the chips are most of the chips we need are being produced in Taiwan. And there is, you know, Taiwan is having a very tough time.

with China, and that there really could be, you know, a supply chain issue that would impact our lives in a very profound way. And so there definitely is a want to bring semiconductor building back to the United States. Do you see a way to sort of tap into that? The government finally sees why that's important. So that is the economically sound way to do business. And it's also an interest of our national security. We can't rely on other countries to supply, to supply our needs here at home. You know, there was a time where we built things in this country. We supplied the rest of the world. And we have to, we have to get back to, we have to shift the dynamic to get back to that place. It could be, you know, you're talking about chips. And we could be even, we could talk about

windmills. We can talk about solar panels that are largely not built or manufactured here in America. So there is a world of opportunity for us to make ourselves safer at home. in the interest of national security and also to increase economic opportunity for families. Like the fact that we don't build things here in America anymore here in Wisconsin has led, not just to decline in middle class, but decline in quality of life for everybody. All the things we're dealing with. You know, people go on and on about, you know, about rising crime. And it is a valid concern.

But the fact is when communities have opportunities, when communities are resourced, There are far less issues with crime. And we have to get in the business of prevention. We have to make sure that people have the things that they need to live happy, healthy, and productive lives. Yeah. Thank you so much. Please come back. And good luck to you.

And please defeat Ron Johnson because he's the worst. We'll be more than happy to come back. And I appreciate you giving me the time. This is great. Thanks for joining us. John King is the former Education Secretary under President Obama. and is running for the Democratic nomination for governor in Maryland. Welcome to the new abnormal, John King.

Thanks so much. Let's talk about Maryland. You're running for governor. Exactly. You have all of this background in education. Can we talk about that? That's right, yeah. I was a teacher and principal and led schools at the local level and state level

before working first as deputy secretary and then as secretary of education for President Obama. I'm curious because, education has become a real hot but an issue. What do you think is going on? Well, I think we've got a couple of things in this moment. I mean, certainly I think folks have had a lot of challenges over the last year and a half. And, you know, I feel this as a parent. I had a high school senior and high school freshman last year in Montgomery County schools. And it was hard. It was hard to have kids out of school. It was hard for them not to be able to have their extracurricular activities. and all the things that, you know, are such an important part of childhood and adolescence.

So I think there's a lot of stress as a result for families around that. And then you've got the folks on the right trying to generate a sort of manufactured crisis around what they call critical race theory, which really is an effort, I think, on the right to try to prevent us from talking about the truth of our history. Yeah, you know, I want to. get more into critical race theory, though, now Republicans have stopped talking about it, so the media stopped covering it, which is sort of fascinating, right? Like the last week, you know, it went from, like, the most important issue, you know, of our time. Like, you know how Republicans bring out the caravan to something that we're not talking about at all anymore. What I, I want to parse through

with you is Virginia, because there was a lot of parent hostility in Virginia. And I think parent, I have three children, one in high school and two who are about to go into high school. I know that this pandemic has been horrendous for kids. Like, I know this. I mean, I just, you can't have a kid and not see how terrible this has been. And it's also been terrible for parents. It strikes me that this rage that a lot of these parents feel is being channeled into anything they can find. Oh, I think that's right.

And I think, unfortunately, Tara McClure. Kalaif didn't really respond to that frustration and fear and anger. And, you know, as I said, I feel it. I mean, you know, I think about what last winter was like for my daughters when they couldn't see friends. They couldn't have their extracurriculars. It's just incredibly hard. Socio-emotionally, we have a ton of resources and privilege, but still incredibly hard. And I think we have to speak to that as elected leaders have a clear message. about how we move forward. It's not to re-litigate the public health decisions of the last year and a half, but it is to say we've got to invest in counselors and mental health services and social workers. We've got to, I believe, mobilize a national tutoring corps of young, recent college graduates, retired teachers to help kids catch up academically, but also build those positive mentoring relationships that students need. We have to have a vision for how we move forward from here.

How do you talk to angry parents about the learning gap? And the first thing said, just acknowledge how hard the last year and half has been and acknowledged the pain and frustration of it. And then talk about how we move forward, how we're going to help kids catch up. Now, it's not every kid. I mean, there was real variation, right? Some families had internet access and devices and parents sitting next to the kid doing their work while they were in Zoom school. and other kids didn't have any of that. And so there's, you know, real range.

But we've got to use some of these federal resources and certainly state resources to address where kids miss learning. My wife taught first grade. And, you know, I think about the kids who miss first grade, such a pivotal year in learning to read. And it's hard to keep first graders attention on Zoom. And so those students need support now. And we have an obligation to provide that. But Larry Hogan has been one of the few. And again, I use this term very loosely because these guys are still Republicans.

But he's been certainly better than a lot of Republicans. It's a low bar, but yeah. Yes. What does Maryland look like? You know, so Hogan gets a lot of credit for being anti-Trump, which I appreciate and pro-vaccine. Of course, his constituency is anti-Trump and pro-vaccine. So it would be suicide not to be. That's right.

So, you know, we've done pretty well, certainly on vaccination. We've managed, I would say, COVID pretty well as a state. That said, we haven't done very much to tackle climate change for the last eight years. We haven't done very much to really address some of our systemic inequities in our economy. We have a huge racial wealth gap, about 30%, 31% of our, our state population is African American, but 70% of our prison population is African American. So we have lots of challenges that have gone unaddressed, but the governor gets credit for, you know, I think reasonable management through COVID.

You are a state that will be really affected by climate change, and already is. Already is. We have the Chesapeake running, you know, right through the state. We have flooding regularly in many parts of the state. We are losing waterfront. We're losing farmland to saltwater intrusion. Climate change is a today problem for us, not a 20 years from now problem. You've seen a lot of Democratic administrations. We're now in this uncharted world where Democrats are the one party that believes in democracy and the other party doesn't. So everything depends on Democrats keeping power. How are they going to do it? Well, look, at the national level, I think we need Democrats in Congress to move beyond the filibuster.

We need Senate Democrats to realize that they cannot prioritize the filibuster over democracy and protecting the right to vote. They need to act now to secure voting rights. You know, that means setting aside the filibuster, but the filibuster is really a relic of earlier times. And we're at a moment where the threat is truly existential. You know, the other piece I would say is Democrats nationally, we have to organize at the local level, and we have to take seriously that every level of government matters, local leadership matters, state legislative races matter, governors' races matter.

We can't just be focused at the federal level because what we're seeing is state legislatures that are controlled by Republicans are moving very quickly to dismantle. the protections that ensure our democracy. Do you think there's any way that that happened? I think that Senator Schumer understands the stakes. I have to believe that he will find a way to persuade his colleagues, whether it's making an exception to the filibuster for civil rights protections or some other vehicle that he will find a way. Because frankly, if we don't, it's not just a matter of 2022 elections being in jeopardy.

there's a real chance that the 2024 election will happen against a backdrop of real manipulation of the right to vote. We're on an express train to know we're good. So what do you think the landscape looks like now in your race? Do you know who Donald Trump will choose for the Republican Party? So Donald Trump endorsed Dan Cox in a Republican primary. He's a member of the General Assembly. anti-mask, anti-vaccine, pro-insurrection. He's got an opponent, Kelly Schultz, who is one of Hogan's cabinet secretaries and Hogan's preferred choice, but they're going to have a real fight on the

Republican side and Trump meddling in the race. Again, it's just a danger to democracy. Dan Cox is a danger to democracy. And, you know, he called Mike Pence a traitor. You know, that's that level of intensity of buy-in to Trump's lie. So that's on the Republican side. On the Democratic side, we've got a crowded field of candidates, lots of folks who've been in politics a long time. But I think we have a unique lane, both because of my education background, which obviously is top of mind for folks, but also because I can make the case for why I believe government can be a force for good in people's lives. When I was a kid, both my parents passed away when I was little.

My mom, when I was eight, my dad when I was 12. When it was just my dad and me, my dad was struggling with undiagnosed Alzheimer's. Home was incredibly difficult. And the thing that saved me was public school. The right public institution intervening in my life at the right moment. And that's why I know government can be such a transformative force in people's lives. It's so funny because it's like here we are talking about education, which is something my husband's EdTech VC. So we're always talking about education in our house and thinking about how we can get

people to care more about education. And now, you know, Republicans have somehow hijacked this conversation. I think it's important to just talk about larger Republican policies when it comes to education for a minute. If you could pull back. Can you explain to our listeners what they are? Yeah. There are kind of two principles that they focus on in state after state, have been starving public education of resources, including Governor Hogan here in Maryland, opposing school funding reform that will get more resources to our highest-need schools. And then their other principle has been to try to advance vouchers, really privatization of education. And, you know, we've seen certainly during the Trump era with Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education,

they were constantly promoting the idea of taking public resources away from public schools and directing them towards private schools, including religious schools. And even when the evidence shows that voucher programs do not improve student outcomes, that they undermine public education, they keep pushing it because it suits their political vision. Yeah, it's an amazing and super disturbing time to be alive. if we even are. Just give me a two-second idea of how you think Democrats could keep the House. No pressure.

Well, look, I think we have to show people that we are delivering, and we have to make the case that we're delivering on things that will improve their day-to-day quality of life. Certainly the infrastructure bill, roads, bridges, electric charging stations, broadband, thus really delivering. we need to pass bill back better so that we can then talk about childcare that's affordable, paid family leave, lowering prescription drug costs. We have to be able to talk about how billed back better is going to make people's lives better.

Now, we have to make sure we don't give away in negotiating the bill, the parts that people are going to really feel. But if we make the case that Democrats are the party that is helping people advance economically helping address the day-to-day challenges in their lives. I think that's our path to winning. And we have to be on that message every day. Thank you so much for joining us, John. Oh, thanks for that opportunity.

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