The Daily Beast Podcast - The Glaring Epstein Files Issue Trump Can’t Escape

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

David Rothkopf joins Joanna Coles for a blistering, wide-ranging conversation about a presidency defined by vulgarity, fear, and damage—starting with Rothkopf’s searing argument that Donald Trump is the ugliest expression of American power yet. From the White House’s gilded excesses and the planned hollowing-out of the Kennedy Center, to the Melania “bribe-umentary,” its Epstein-adjacent fallout, and the mounting contradictions exposed in the Epstein files themselves, the episode tracks how taste, corruption, and impunity collide. Rothkopf, The Daily Beast’s unmissable columnist and found of the DSR Network, dig into the murkier questions Trump can’t outrun—from Howard Lutnick’s shifting Epstein story to why so many powerful figures are suddenly caught in bald-faced lies—while also unpacking the strange Tulsi Gabbard whistleblower saga, Trump’s renewed fixation on “stolen” elections, and the quiet groundwork being laid to destabilize 2026. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The more I hear about Epstein, the more I read about Epstein, the more it's very clear that really horrifically bad stuff was happening there. And I think Donald Trump wonders whether crimes were committed. I think in his mind what he's concerned about is there are crimes where there is no statute of limitation or there are crimes that will discuss even his last remaining followers. I'm John Nicole. This is the Daily Beast podcast. I've even got new shoulder pads on to start the week because we've got Trump suing Trevor Noah. We've got Bad Bunny.

We've got Billy Elish. We've got Jeffrey Epstein and the murk around the files. I mean, it's just astonishing. How many people said they didn't know Jeffrey Epstein? They'd never heard of Jeffrey Epstein. They'd never spent time with Jeffrey Epstein. They never wanted to go to Jeffrey Epstein's island. And, of course, the 3 million emails.

that have been released show us completely, completely the contrary of what so many powerful men have been telling us. Well, who better to start the week with to bring insight, to bring clarity into the crazy that's going on in the United States right now than David Rothkopf. He's the founder of Deep State Radio. He's the former editor of foreign policy. He worked for the Commerce Department under Bill Clinton. And Bill Clinton, is he going to turn up in front of the oversight committee or not to talk about the Epstein files. Well, let's get into it. David Rothkopf, we've got so much to discuss. First of all, we've got your incredible column, which is fantastic about how Trump is the ugliest American ever to have braced these shores.

We've got the Kennedy Center closed down. We've got the Grammys and, of course, the prospect of Bad Bunny doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl this coming weekend. We've got the mystery around Tulsi Gabbard and what an earth is happening there. And then we have, of course, the Epstein files, which are going to keep us all busy for the next three months. Where to begin? Let's begin with why you decided to write this piece on Trump being the ugliest American ever.

Well, because I wake up in the morning, and that's true every day. But I, you know, I've been struck in the past few days by the fact that Trump is not just bringing corruption to the White House. He's not just bringing incompetence to the White House. He's not just bringing incredible ignorance to the White House or vindictiveness or criminality, although he's bringing all of those things every day. I mean, but, you know, what strikes me is that he is also the most vulgar.

The man was the worst taste in America. Now, you know, you might say, well, you know, He comes from Queens, and then he goes to Atlantic City and does casinos and Las Vegas, and he does casinos, and he's the cheese balliest of all cheese ball. Yeah, he is. But now it's like leaving a mark, right? It's leaving a mark on Washington. You know, he's, I mean, look what he's done to the Oval Office. It looks like a bordello.

And looks what he's doing to the white house. He torn part of it down, and he's building, you know, this gilded cage for all his billionaire friends. and then under it, there's this weird story about he's building some luxury bunker that he can hide out from the world and move his residence there because he's so afraid, I guess, of people with pitched forks and torches marching on the White House. But, you know, he wants to build a 250-foot triumphal arch in Washington that'll tower over everything and block the views of the Lincoln Memorial and cast a shadow over Arlington Cemetery.

And he wants to, I mean, we've talked about it before, that he's having, celebrating, you know, the 250th anniversary of America's establishment as democracy with a wrestling match on the South Lawn of the White House. But this past week, he's also said he wants an indie car race through the streets of D.C. And then, of course, you know, you have this Kennedy Center story, where, you know, yesterday,

social media, he announces, oh, we're shutting down. We're going to shut it down and turn it into a great entertainment complex, which sounds like, you know, I don't know, the Sands or the MGM Grand or something like that, and probably will be like that, right? Right. They'll have slot machines. They'll have arcades. I mean.

Yeah, exactly. And there'll be mirrors over your seats. I mean, it's going to look. I mean, this guy. Great mirrors. We're going to have great mirrors. Tremendous mirrors. Tremendous mirrors.

I mean, he's talking about having marble armrests. What is that about? They'll be cold. Because somebody said to him, hey, Don, you know what's class? Real class is marble. It's fantastic. Like the Lincoln Barthrum. That's even better.

Right. And this sort of settles into like the soft, mushy recesses of his mind. And so everything he does. You know, gold labels on the White House. weird gold vases and things in the Oval Office. And you've seen the marble bathroom that he made, the Lincoln Bedroom Bathroom. Yeah, which was this rather beautiful, austere,

slightly primitive, I guess, sink and bathroom and Lou. And then he's boxed the whole thing in in Carrera marble, which just looks like any other hotel you spend time at. Well, that's probably what he's looking for, and who knows how much time he spends in there, probably a lot, given his decaying condition. And then on top of all of this, you know, and you covered this.

I was fascinated by it. But on top of all of this, we had this movie come out, Melania, which I call a bribeumetry, because, you know, this is $75 million from Jeff Bezos to win the favor of the president, where they're paying off people to go see it. But the reviews, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, the reviews are so brutal.

But you went. I saw you went. Did you? Well, I actually quite, you know, it's not as bad as they say. I mean, the funny thing I thought was they bring Brett Ratner out of exile where he's been cast because he's a sex pest or sexual abuser. You know, more than six women came out and complained about him. Hollywood basically me to him. He was done.

He comes out of self-enforced exile to do. the Melania movie. And then literally on the day after it's released, what is released or what is discovered in the Epstein files, but a picture of Brett Ratner snuggled up next to Jeffrey Epstein on a sofa with a very young woman between them. We have no idea what age she is, but she doesn't look like she's met her 20th birthday yet. I mean, the whole thing is so sleazy. I will say, though, that what I thought was interesting, and clearly Melania had the last word on it. The first credit that comes up is Muse Productions, her film, so it's Muse Films Presents. And we're told that she had the last word.

She's a producer on it, and she and Brett Ratner had the last word. It's very clear that she and the president lead separate lives. That's the message I took from the film. At the end of inauguration day, she and the president go their separate ways. And you sort of think at the end of inauguration day that Barack and Michelle would have gone up and had some pretty lively sex because can you believe it? We've done it. Here we are. This is incredible.

You know, and because they were a sexy couple. Well, I'm just saying they were a sexy couple. There was something. They may be less sexy now, but they were certainly sexy at the time. and it looked like they were going to enjoy being a married couple. And what did did when they left? Well, I think I think that I think that Jill would have led him kindly up the stairs. But I think Laura and George probably had to the other room and changed into a negligee and gone to the bed and he's asleep.

Well, I don't think she would have changed into the negligee. I think she might have pulled out a trundle bed. Who knows? Who knows? But what's clear is, yeah, of course they will. Of course they will. And, you know, would we rather have Joe Biden now than this madness? Yes.

But what's just very clear about the movie and what Melania is signaling in it is she is her own person. They have what appears to be a very transactional marriage. She turns up for certain things. At one point she comes down the stairs of a plane that she's, flown in on to meet him for Jimmy Carter's funeral and he goes, you look like a movie star, you look like a movie star, which she does because she's got big dark glasses on and fabulous hair. But you don't see her actually doing very much apart from saying that she, I'm working for stirring

future, fostering future. Because I haven't seen. And that is, like, who changes her batteries? Because. That's, I think she's solar. because she's concerned about climate change. She's solar powered, and that's what their hair is about. Underneath that, it might be had a sonapower.

Yeah, it had a... Well, I believe that because, you know, I say in the column that she's the America's first animatronic first lady. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, to me, this is what... She comes across as devoid of human attributes. Devoid. I mean, she doesn't have any feelings, apparently.

She doesn't, you know, she's willing to be married to this guy just for money. She, she, her entire life is a transaction. Well, I don't think it's just for money. I think it's for a sense. I think Malani was on a journey. I mean, the incredible thing is the opportunity they missed in the movie. She's the America's most famous immigrant. She's had an incredible journey through the ups and downs of the modeling world.

More downs than ups, I think. I mean, she was never a big supermodel. The only time she got on the cover of Vogue was when she got married to Donald Trump. That is a fascinating journey. I will tell you, at the end of the movie, which I saw in Union Square in New York City, two women came up to me and the friend I'd gone with,

and we were still sitting discussing the movie, and they came up to us, and they went, you like a movie? What do you all think of movie? And I was like, oh, my goodness, they are Russian agents. They were like, you'll like a movie. Movie good, right? Movie good.

And I was like, they are like, They are testing us. They are testing us. Anyway. Well, I mean, you know, but that immigration story, some people have written about it, and I think it's right to underscore it. Because the Melania immigration story, in counterpoint, I mean, you know, the big opening of the movie was the same day that Alex Prattie was gunned down, right? They went ahead and they did the opening anyway.

Right. But the whole. House, the Saturday. Yeah, the Saturday screening. It wasn't the opening. It was the first official screening with sponsors. There are no sponsors, by the way. But I mean, Amazon people. Tim Cook and all these other people showed up. Anyway, but the point is, the Trump narrative and the Malania movie carries it forward is white immigration is good. Yeah. All other immigration is bad. And she is sort of presenting herself as the good immigrant. Look, I've come to this country, and by virtue of all of my great talents, I've made well and I'm the First Lady of the United States, and isn't that great? At the same time, the five-year-old children are being taken off to prisons in Texas, where they're now having outbreaks of measles because we don't believe in vaccines anymore, because 250 years of medical science make us uncomfortable,

and, you know, they're dunning people down in the streets, And, you know, but all those people are brown. The reason they're smashing windows and pulling people out of cars is because they're brown. Yeah. And I mean, no, it's terrible. And they're pulling law enforcement officers out of cars because they're brown. I mean, this sort of militia that the president has instituted, masked militia, is a terrible stain on America's character.

Remember when it came down the golden steel. case at the Trump Tower. One of the things that he said was Mexicans are rapists, right? And I think he thinks that his entire success is due to the fact that he's been tough on immigration. And I think right now he's having

kind of a mental infarction because all the polling shows that people hate his immigration policies, not just Democrats. Republicans hate his policies. Well, we could just... Independence hate his policies. In the reddest county in America in Texas.

Yes, I was just going to mention. There was a special election in which, for the first time at half a century, a Democrat won. This was a county Trump won by plus 17 and it swung about 30 points. Yeah, 30 points swing. Because people hate what he's doing. And the problem is, you know, he doesn't care about policy. He has no ideology. He doesn't have plan B.

He's got Stephen Miller saying kick him harder. He really doesn't have it. There's no legislative agenda in the United States. He's got no program. All he has is hate. And the problem is the American people are sick of it. And that's what I think January was Donald Trump's worst month as president of the United States. And except possibly January.

January, whatever that was, 2021, when he had to leave office. But it's because it's all fallen apart. And he just doesn't know what to do about it. Well, and interestingly, for a president who is very concerned about image making and is talented at image making, the images of the ICE arrests and the masks and the screaming women thrown to the ground and the mom shot in. cold blood that we all see and the lies that came out after it. And Alex Preti shot in cold blood 10 times.

I mean, unforgivable. And then the men running away because they knew it was wrong. We've seen it all on video. And those images that they initially packaged as rap videos with rap songs until the rap artist said, stop using our music, have completely backfired on him. They've actually shown us what is going on out there, even in cities where we are. Everywhere he looks, his little act, this little slate of hand stuff isn't working.

You talk about the Epstein files. Well, now we have more information about Elon Musk, wanting to go to wild parties and being even we're than we thought he could be, and he's the weirdest guy in the world. Howard Lutnik, wanting to go to have lunch, you know, at these things. Everybody, you know, trying to get in with Epstein, who's in his inner circle, Peter Thiel.

deeply, deeply involved in the whole Epstein thing. And this, this, you know, blocks that for him. And that's why, for reasons, and you mentioned this at the very beginning, for reasons that we can figure out. But, you know, there is a backstory here, which we're going to have to get to the bottom of. He sends the Director of National Intelligence and a bunch of FBI agents to Fulton County

to come out with 700 boxes full of information from the 2020 election because he still thinks it was stolen. Now, the Director of National Until, what does she have to do with this? Well, at first they're like, we don't know why she was there. Tulsi Gabbard. You know, said, well, we don't know why. But it turns out, according to stories that are breaking today on Monday, Tulsi Gabbard was overseeing it, was in contact with the president, And actually, after they'd gone through the place, got on the phone with the president, and the president did something which presidents never do.

He talked to the FBI agents. You know, he's guiding their hand. He wants to be able to prove that this election was stolen from him. Or at least be able to raise enough questions that they can keep asserting that there's something fishy going on here. And I think it's more the latter. because of a couple of things. One, because he's been saying this a long time, and I think in some level he believes it.

But more importantly, it gives them an excuse to seek voter rolls in 2026. It gives them an excuse to send people into monitor, to question results when results come out there. And that's all they want. You know, I was talking to a Washington insider type, And he's like, well, they're going to put their thumb on this guy. They're steal the election. And I said, I don't know if they're going to be able to do that.

But what I do think they can do is fuck with the election. They can raise questions about the election. And that's all it takes. It's all it takes to make people not show up or to postpone counting people once they get elected and so forth. And, you know, that's a big deal because right now I think that margin in the house is one vote. David, hold on. We're just going to take some ads. And we're back with David Rothkopf, and he's already alluded to the fact that he thinks they are going to lose the midterms. So what feels like happening is they are laying down markers to either so enormous confusion over it or to make certain states, I guess, just completely unstable when it comes to voting.

Well, and work with certain kinds of state governments in order to, have questions, freeze elections, postpone results, have inquiries, delay people being registered, and all of that. Which he, you know, I mean, he said, you know, we saw a story a couple of days ago where Trump was in front of a bunch of Republicans and he was pleading with them to find a way to tip the scales so they don't lose the house because he said they're going to impeach me. And, you know, damn right, they're going to impeach him.

And they're going to impeach Tulsi. and RFK Jr. and Pete Hexeth. Pete Hegseth. Jaynex. And all these people. And, you know, that's based on what we know now. You know, I got to say, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm, you know, pretty much a died-in-the-whole skeptic.

But, you know, to go back to the Epstein files, three million pages release, three million pages not released. Now, there's no legal grounds for them not to do it. So obviously, since they're releasing all of this information that's embarrassing, they think something really bad is going on there. And the more I hear about Epstein, the more I read about Epstein, the more it's very clear that really horrifically bad stuff was happening there. And I think Donald Trump,

wonder is whether crimes were committed. I think he, I think in his mind, what he's concerned about is there are crimes where there is no statute of limitation or there are crimes that will discuss even his last remaining followers. And that can be the only reason.

Why else? Would they allow this to continue to be the centerpiece of the news. Now, you cover it really closely. I don't think anybody covers all this better than the Daily Beast. But to me, there is something murky at the core of all of this that we just don't know, but all the evidence says there are a lot of people out there trying desperately to hide it. Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And also what's fascinating is the number of people who were just caught in bald-faced lies about their connections with Epstein. I mean, Howard Lucknick, who lived next door to Epstein, saying, oh, my wife and I only met him once. We went

round to his house. He showed us his massage bed. We were both freaked out. We never contacted him again. And then you have emails desperately pleading to go to the island for lunch. And they're going to take another family, and they're going to take two 16-year-olds, two 14-year-olds, and a 13-year-old with them. And you're like, what do you not understand? about who this man was. Well, right, particularly after 2005. Exactly, 2008 when he'd served his sentence. Yeah, but 2005, you know, everybody knew it was a sex,

who had committed sex crimes. Anybody who stays in touch with him after that. And Ludnik, who's saying, oh, I didn't have anything to do with him, was in touch with him at 2012. He was in touch within seven years after that. Right, right. And so he knew.

You know, and so did so. so many of these other... Well, and Richard Branson, who, you know, said, oh, I never liked him. And then, of course, we discover a letter from Richard Branson to him saying, here are some ways that you might be able to rehabilitate yourself. Why don't you get Bill Gates to write a sort of reference letter for you saying that you thought the girl was 17 and a half? And Bill Gates is, like, given all this money to charity, hooray for Bill Gates.

But according to these files, that he's gotten... venereal disease from some Russian girl and is trying to slip antibiotics into his wife's whatever breakfast area i mean incredible it's so gross and you know there's so many people who had reputations and they're being destroyed but i think this you know these are all the sacrificial lamps these are the people who are being given up to protect other people and you know i mean you know We know that the guy who gave the sweetheart deal to Alex O'Costa. Right.

Was in the Trump cabinet. Yep. Well, he was the... We know that Pam Bondi was the Attorney General of Florida, which was, you know, overseeing all of these stuff. We know that a lot of the people who are close to Trump are close to Trump because they can help him keep a lid on this. And so, you know, this story, this story is not going away. And I just think, you know, we've ended up in the kind of, I called to, you know, earlier to somebody else.

It's, you know, the disgusting horror film, a human centipede? No, I don't know that, actually, David. Where did that come from? No, no. Well, it's kind of the, it's a movie where people are connected mouth to asshole and the poop goes through all the people. Oh, good God. Really? It's Monday morning.

We're recording this on Monday morning. David. No, I understand, but I think we're kind of in the canine centipede of wagging the dog. Every day there's a new wag the dog story. Every day there's a new wag the dog. Every single day. And it's like if I were sitting in Iran right now, I'd be scared out of my mind. Yeah. The worst the Epstein story got, the more the alerts had to go up in Venezuela. The worst, you know, these other stories get, then it's going to be Greenland. Then it's going to be Iran. You know, I have a friend saying, you know, then Suriname, you know, who knows where we will wag the dog next. But Trump doesn't have a move except to try to distract.

Well, I was going to read a couple of lines from your excellent column, which reinforces that. Trump, for his part, however, daily tries to find new ways to drive home the message that never has a lesser man held high office in America, and never has a more defective human being had so much power in our country. And then you go on, I particularly like this paragraph, you almost have to give him credit for the scope of his efforts. Pick a character failing. And each week he will remind you that not only does he have it, but that he wants to make a show of it like a hippopotamus in heat,

flicking shit and piss in every direction in order to attract a mate. Did you know that hippopotamus has did that? No, I didn't. I didn't know that. It's true, though. I didn't just make that up. I've actually seen it happen. Have you ever seen a hippopotamus in like the wild? Yes, I have. I have seen a hippopotamus, but I've not seen it flicking shit. I've seen them largely in water.

Right. And have you smelled? It's horrible. Yeah, they're just, they're disgusting, yes. It's disgusting. And part of it is because the way a male hippopotamus tracks female hippopotamus is it no, it poops and, and peas and then spreads it all around with it stale to say, here I am. Right, and that's its territory. It's territorial, isn't it? Well, but it's also attractive. But is Donald Trump attracting women?

Well, maybe I guess he's got all those maga ladies. I don't know. I mean, you know, I don't know. But all I can tell you is at the end of the Melania movie, it's very clear he's not attracting his wife. Well, you know, you know, fool me 27,000 times. shame on me, right? But after, you know, a certain number of years of this, you know, so the penny has finally dropped for her. But, you know, the point that I was trying to make in that was it sounds

like hyperbole. But in that paragraph, I go through every character flaw that I could think of. And every single character flaw is manifest every couple of days. You know, to say that, you know, It's like, oh, what are you? Like, you're a Trump hater. Oh, my God, you know. But it's not. Donald Trump is the worst of us. And every day, because he's stealing, because he's lying, because he's ignorant,

because he is bullying, because he is ignoring the law, because he is causing pain and suffering and death, because he is associating with the worst possible people, because he's doing damage to the environment or damage to our health or damage to the world or blowing up alliances, because he has such disgusting taste and he's destroying American culture

and are standing in the world. Every single day, pick a bad character trait. Donald Trump will display it at some point during the day. Okay, all right. I'm going to stop you there because you're absolutely right, but I also want to make sure that we discuss the Tulsi Gabbard story. So there was a strange story about Tulsi Gabbard in the Wall Street Journal, which said that some months ago a whistleblower had taken a complaint about Tulsi Gabbard, head of intelligence, to the head of intelligence, to Tulsi Gabbard, as it were. And we don't know what the complaint was.

And it's being slow walked. and it's very, very serious, apparently. I feel that you will, sitting in Washington with the contacts I know you have, be able to shed light on this. Well, I mean, I can't shed light on the complaint except to know that the way the complaint was handled was outrageous, and the people who've been in the position of Inspector General and so forth have already spoken out about how, you know, this is supposed to be independent.

It wasn't. these whistleblower critiques are supposed to come to the attention of Congress. It hasn't. And, you know, before Tulsi Gabbard was confirmed for this role, we talked about the fact that she was bizarrely close to the leadership in Syria, bizarrely defensive of the Assad regime, close and defensive when it came to the Russians. That, you know, this is a woman, and, you know, we believe in religious freedom and

America and so where, but she's the member of a cult. Mm-hmm. You know, she is a very strange person by any measure. And she was a former Democrat. Well, she was, but then, you know, she was, you know, alien. And, you know, I mean, think about this. She was also in the reserves. and I think she was a fairly high-ranking officer.

I think she was a major or something in the reserves. And when these stories started coming out about her and her associations and so forth, there's a lot of question about how she was even able to keep those roles, you know, that just for an ordinary person. But now, of course, despite all that, because the Republicans on the Hill had no spine and a couple of Democrats went along with it, you know, Tulsi Gabbard is the top intelligence official in the United States.

I think, you know, one of the things that's going to happen when we get to the end of this administration is we are going to find out that whistleblower reports in the intelligence community, in the FBI, in the Department of Justice, in the State Department, in other parts of the Department of Defense, are going to come out that they were quashed. Well, and I'm sure the whistleblowers were probably fired. Fired or, yeah, I mean, I certainly think that that's likely or forced one way or another to be quiet. Because this, you know, we're entering a period in our history that despite everything Trump said, this is the least transparent government that we have ever had. You know, I wrote a piece for you guys last week about his war on the First Amendment, but, you know, they don't let people into the White House to cover it properly.

They don't let people into the Pentagon to cover it properly. They only issue lies when people ask them questions. In the past few days, we saw this woman asking Trump a question about this also insane story where he said that he is going to sue the IRS for $10 billion for leaking his tax returns. And then he was asked about this. and she asked the question and he said, where are you from? And she said, ABC and he said, you're terrible fake news.

I'm not answering. But in a separate conversation, he said, well, you know, this is basically me suing myself. And so I guess I'll reach a settlement with myself. But nobody should worry about that because all the money will go to a charity.

I know. It's ridiculous. I don't think Donald Trump's ever given money to a charity, has he? No, he promises it all the time, but he doesn't follow up in it. But, you know, But the idea that he can just pay himself what he wants out of the nation's coffers is absurd.

It's absurd. It's offensive. And yet, you know, we're not going to see the background on that. That'll be hidden just like these other things. There was a story today, which I found kind of amazing that recently the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court made all the staff of the Supreme Court. sign documents saying that they would not reveal the facts of what happened while they were at the Supreme Court, which is the first time they've ever had to sign those. So we're, as the government is becoming more corrupt, as the government is doing more things to hurt people, as the people leading the government are more suspect for more reasons,

our government is also becoming less transparent. Well, and also they are, as Steve Bannon always said, flooding the zone and online just creates more confusion because there's AI slop everywhere. And also every conspiracy theorist now has a megaphone to amplify across the endless platforms that we have now. So it's impossible to know what's true and what's not true. I think that's right. And of course, there's a lot of people out there who, you know, stay in one information ecosystem, never go out of it, don't question what they hear, don't want to question what they hear. And in fact, you know, I think one of the things we have to think about, because this is a big deal. There were, what, 80 million people who voted for

Donald Trump. And a year later, they're saying, well, oh, yeah, he's corrupt and he's cruel, and he is breaking the law and stuff like that. And they might want to back away a little bit, but they will lose some of their identity in doing that. They've been saying for years, Trump is the answer. And all of a sudden, all the critiques of Trump that they heard from the mainstream media or the left, as they would have called it, they're all turning out to be true. And so how do they live with themselves? There was a funny bit, actually, which is I say this rarely on Saturday Night Live, on just

this Saturday, about a mother. confessing to her kids that she had decided she no longer supported Trump and screaming at them at the same time because it was so hard for her to confess that. I think we're going to go through this big national identity crisis as all of these Trump supporters realized that they contributed to devastation and suffering in the United States. And it's just hard to avoid because, as you said,

the stuff is on the record now. Measles and other things are breaking out across the country. We are, you know, the dollar, I saw a piece in the New York Times in the front of the New York Times today. And the dollar, I think, was 0.95 to the euro in January when Trump took over. And it's 0.83 to the euro now. In other words, the dollar has plunged. The dollar has plunged versus lots of other currencies. So, you know, people are just going to have to come to grips with the fact that they've picked the worst

possible person in America to be president. And how are they going to do that? It's going to be interesting and it's going to manifest itself in all sorts of weird ways. And you know, you saw the size of the demonstrations that took place in the country over this weekend. I don't know. Did you watch the Grammy Awards? David, let's take a break for some sponsors. And I'm back with the clarity we all need and David Rothkopf.

Of course I watched the Grammy Awards. And of course, Bad Bunny will be back on our screens on, well, next weekend for the Super Bowl, because he's doing the halftime show. And I saw Trump's frantic truth socialing about how bad Trevor Noah was and how he's planning to sue Trevor Noah. He's going to sue Trevor Noah because Trevor Noah made a joke. Right. And the joke was that Trump needed Greenland because he didn't have Epstein Island anymore and that he wanted to go there with Bill Clinton. And, you know, Trump was like, this isn't true. It totally touched a nerve.

It totally touched a nerve. But, but, you know, bad bunny stood up and said, ice out. And he got a standing ovation prolonged. Olivia Dean made a speech about being an immigrant. Billy Elish said fuck ice. She got bleeped out of the thing. But now everybody, you know, everybody is going to go and be looking. at the Super Bowl, which is like America's holiest day.

Right. You know, it's like Yom Kippur and Easter rolled into one where there's everything we worship about the United States, violence and vulgarity and excess. And the sport made for television. All for TV. You're going to get 100 million, 200 million, a billion people around the world watching this. And the halftime show is a Trump hater who hates.

Trump's immigration policies and is going to sing in Spanish, who just had one best album for the first time ever for an all Spanish album. So, David, does that mean then that actually Trump is not having the impact on America that we think he is? Because here we are. We have the Super Bowl and Bad Bunny performing. We have the Grammy Awards and Bad Bunny winning. And speaking in broken English as he warns people to love, not hate.

we're talking freely, at least for now, on YouTube. Does this mean that in fact, actually the sacred things of America, the First Amendment are still intact? Yes, Don Lemon was arrested, but he was let out of prison. I mean, I think they're under siege, but I think people have realized they've got to defend them. And I think they've realized also. and this is something I think that zoomers and millennials realized to a much greater extent than Gen X's and boomers, they realize the institutions are failing them and they're going to have to do it themselves.

That, you know, you've got tens of thousands of people in Minneapolis saying, no, I'll go watch ice. I'll record this. Right, right. You have millions of people showing up in the street. You know, as I think you and I've talked about in the past, This is not anymore about constitutional issues or the rule of law or democracy, which sounds, you know, good, but at a remove from the average person at the average kitchen table.

This is, my neighbor got dragged away. The little kid next door is in a prison camp in Texas. They gunned down the nurse who was working at the VA hospital. They are arresting the press. they're threatening to sue comedians for jokes they don't like. And so people are saying, well, Supreme Court's not going to protect us. The Congress isn't going to protect us.

The president is the enemy. He's deploying his own army in our cities. The only people who can protect us are us. So, David, this leaves an opportunity for the Democratic Party. We saw the 30-point swing in Texas. if people are losing their identities as MAGA supporters or Trump supporters, is there someone for them to go to? Is there someone representing the future of the Democratic Party who seems viable? The answer is lots of people.

And as we've also talked about before, Democrats in the three of the past four elections, they won didn't pick their candidate until two years out. Three years out, they had no idea who it was. They didn't think it was going to be Jimmy Carter. They didn't think it was going to be Bill Clinton. They didn't think it was going to be Barack Obama. Frankly, they didn't think it was going to be Joe Biden, either. He was considered a long shot.

So I think it's a little premature. The first question is, can Democrats win in the midterms? The answer is if the elections are free and fair, the Democrats will win. They will. They will win by a lot. Trump is hugely unpopular. He's got nothing to save his bacon. he is going to lose by a lot.

But the elections have to be free and fair. And so the fight is actually between now and then. And then it'll be a question of whether people actually show up, actually go help each other vote. Young people show up. But if that happens, the Democrats will win. Are there Democrats who can be the right candidate in 2028? You know, it's interesting you mentioned that, Joanna.

And I don't want to tip my hand. But my next column for The Daily Beast is a handicapping or, as I call it, a beast capping of the top 15 or so candidates. Oh, I can't wait to read that because it is sort of exciting at this point thinking about who is going to. It is. I'll tell you one thing. I have, it'll be up in my substack need to know a little later today. But I have a column that I've written for the substack in which I say, it's the billionaires stupid. And the point that I'm trying to make is if you don't realize that inequality and elite impunity are central issues to everybody, that people think the system is rigged and is not working for them anymore, you're not going to be the candidate.

If you are, don't tax the billionaires or let's preserve the status quo or I'm a mainstream Democrat, you're not going to make it to the finish line. You've got to realize that in this election, the majority of voters who will be under the age of 35, don't think the system works. Don't believe the American dream is real anymore. The majority of voters think that the control of the country has been stolen by a handful of super-rich people. They don't get taxed. They get wealthier and wealthier. The rest of us fall further and further behind.

And so whoever the Democratic candidate's going to be is going to have to step up and not do this kind of triangulation that we know from some Democratic candidates where they say like, well, I'll say this to make the billionaires a little happy and this to help the people. They're going to have to stand up and say, no, a lot's got to change. We need to fix what's broken in our power structure. We need to have fair taxation. We need to have D.C. and Puerto Rico estates. We need to have 13 people on the Supreme Court. We need to have health care for everything. everybody. We need to stop negotiating with ourselves and start demanding what the people of this

country need in order for us to have a future. And so what I look for is who's got the clarity and the courage to offer that kind of a vision. The clarity and the courage. Well, David Rothkopf, you have clarity and courage in your excellent columns for The Daily Beast. I highly recommend your column today on why Trump is the ugliest American. ever. I can't wait for your beast cappings on the top 15 people that you think will lead the Democratic Party to the future. And as always, extremely grateful to kick off the week with a conversation with you. I always feel better informed and more animated after talking to David Rothcob. Thank you very much. Well, thank you very much. I was feeling animated after talking

to you. And if, you know, people want to hear more. Of course, I do have the DSR Network podcast that we do on... The Deep State Radio Network. You throw it away by calling it DSR. Deep State Radio is such a good name. We've got all the New Republic podcasts. We've got all these other podcasts that we do, 15, 18 a week on YouTube. So people, you know, they go watch the Deep State, the Daily Beast podcast on YouTube and then, you know, go look for DSR as well. Absolutely. Look for DSR and look for David Rothkopf's columns on Substack. Need to Know on Substack. And also under the name of David Rothkopf on the Daily Beast. I always feel better after talking to David Rothkopf. His clarity, his humor, his ability to stay sane in the madness of these times, I find really helpful.

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