The Daily Beast Podcast - The Only Two People Holding Trump Accountable Are Not Men

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

 New Abnormal hosts Molly Jong-Fast and Andy Levy reveal who is really taking on Trump and talk to politics reporter Asawin Suebsaeng for the scoop on Dr. Oz’s latest fight. Despite continued allegations of fraud and obstruction of justice claims against Donald Trump, somehow, there are still only two people continuing to call the former president out—and neither on is a man. Also on the podcast, Matt Fuller, senior politics editor at The Daily Beast, explains how Democrats have something to push voters to the polls: abortion. “That’s the big animating factor for Democrats,” Fuller says.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, listeners. I'm hoping to address some questions I received this week. This Sunday will be my last episode as the host of the new abnormal. It's been absolutely amazing to get to be a part of this podcast and the Jalibis' outstanding journalism. But I'm moving on to other podcasting opportunities. I'd like to thank you all for the support I've received over the past two plus years. Andy and the team will be continued.

continuing the new abnormal without me. And I can't wait to hear what they do. Thank you all so much for listening. Hi, I'm Molly Jong-Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic Info. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objective. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails.

We're here to have fun, smart conversations with the wisest and funniest people and science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down, and on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. What a great show we have today.

First, we'll talk to Daily Bee's senior politics editor, Matt Fuller, about the state of play in the Senate races across the nation this week. Then we'll talk to Rolling Stone's senior politics reporter, Aswan Subisang, about his latest reporting on Dr. Oz and Trump and DeSantis's insane rivalry. But first, let's have some fun. Andy Levy. Molly Johnfast?

You know what I can do with my brain? What? I'm afraid. I can declassified documents. Really? I hear that's going around. Yeah. It's something that happens when the president and since I am president thinks about something, it is then declassified.

Wow. Yeah, that's what he told professional polymath, Sean Hannity last night on Sean Hannity's television program. you will be unsurprised to hear that Sean Hannity greeted this assertion with zero pushback. No, no. If there's one thing they know at Fox News, don't want to piss off the orange man. Yeah, there is something to be said for maybe like the people who do the biggest softball interviews get, get him to say the dumbest things because he feels comfortable. I don't know. The man cannot stop self-incriminating, but luckily for him, no one will ever hold him accountable,

ergo he's very lucky that way. Yeah, although I guess we do have to point out that the Court of Appeals, was it the Court of Appeals or the District Court? Yeah, the 11th Circuit decided. 11th Circuit, two Trump judges, two out of the three judges were Trump appointees, decided that Judge Cannon, the very young Trump appointee, who had. decided that Trump could have whatever he wanted. They rebuked her. She was rebuked.

There was a rebuke. Oh, no, it was definitely a rebukele. They buged her, and then they rebuked her, is what it felt like. Did not suffer cannons gladly. No. And they basically said that the president can't sit there and say that some of this stuff is declassified without proving that some of this stuff is declassified. And so they basically.

shot down a lot of what she said. So maybe, maybe someone is holding him accountable. Obviously, it was never going to be Sean Hannity. Certainly not. But this is a really good superpower. And it kind of reminded me and Molly, you'll understand this reference. You know, obviously we've got dark branding.

We've got dark brand in for Joe Biden. No, no, no, no, no. This is a pop culture reference and you're very big on that stuff. Oh, Jesus. I see where this is. Joe Biden is dark. Brandon. And obviously, as you know, there is a big superhero in the Marvel universe called Phoenix who went through what was called the Dark Phoenix saga, where she became evil. But one of the

things she could do was do things with her mind. She has my hair. She could do things with her mind. And so I think that Trump is now trying to become Dark Phoenix to fight Dark Brandon. So we're going to have a whole dark universe thing going on. And it's going to be an interesting 2024. Aren't you glad? I went down that rabbit hole. It was great, and it was very quick, which was nice. Yes, exactly. But the thing that I think is quite interesting about this is that we're seeing, again, we have find ourselves in yet another situation where the only fucking people keep taking Trump to task and holding him accountable, Tish James in New York, Fannie Willis in Georgia, right? They're not men.

They're not white. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. And they're the only people who are doing this because everyone else is too much of a fucking coward. And it's just interesting to me. We got so many people in Trump world where Trump has done stuff. And then they've been like, well, let's let it ride.

He's rich. He's white. He has an implanted wig. People love him. We don't want to upset people. And like the two people who are holding him accountable are black women. And I just think it's worth thinking about a Tish James did an announcement yesterday where she started to talk.

And I think what's important about this Tish James announcement is that the person who could bring the criminal case against Donald Trump is this man Alvin Bragg who seems to be, I don't know, he has Sy Vance disease. Like, God forbid we, you know, hold a wealthy white man accountable for anything. And Albin Bragg is continuing the Sy Vance School of Non-P prosecution. But what I thought was amazing was that Tish James has this very organized case that she's set out. And in this case, there's a real case for criminal prosecution. So it's still very possible that Alvin Bragg, I want to say something vulgar here, but I'm going to say fucks up and doesn't do what he's supposed to be doing.

But Tish James has made the case. And if Alvin Brag doesn't prosecute, it's really because he deeply sucks. or is compromised. I'll go with deeply sucks, at least, until proven otherwise. But who the hell knows? I mean, look, the fact that Trump was able to get away with this stuff in New York City for so long, I think shows that there were a lot of people who were deeply compromised in the New York City government.

And it would be interesting to see where an investigation into that would lead. But setting that aside for now, there were some amazing things in James's announcement yesterday. And, you know, like, he claimed his apartment, his Trump Tower apartment was 30,000 square feet. It was 11,000 square feet. He lies about something that was worth $200 million, he said, was worth $524 million. And it's just amazing. The stuff he said is just, like with everything with him, it's so easily disproven. Right. But he has learned, at least up until now, that that doesn't matter. Yeah. And that's the amazing thing, is that. that, you know, he has been taught that he can get away with it

because everyone has let him get away with it for decades and decades and decades. And this is the first time with Tish James that someone is finally saying, hey, you can't get away with this anymore. Yeah. Long-time listeners to the new abnormal know, you know, going back the seven, eight years we've been doing this, that I am. Seven, eight thousand years. Yes, that I am cynical about this stuff.

and I still, like, part of me is like, he's going to cut some kind of deal and this will somehow go away. I think maybe, hopefully, I'm wrong about that because I don't know that Tish James will do that. She seems to want to get him. And I don't mean that in a bad way in a, you know, I've seen a lot of people saying, oh, she needs to, this is a political vendetta.

And look, you know, we don't live in a vacuum. I have no doubt that she hates Donald Trump, the politician. But I also think that this stuff is real. She ain't making this stuff up because if she is, she's going to be in a lot of trouble, and I don't think she wants to get in a lot of trouble. So I'm assuming that all this stuff is real and that all of this that he did, along with, by the way, we should point out that Don Jr. All the kids. Eric. And well, not all the kids, because as usual, Tiffany skates. Yeah. Yeah, and Ivanka. Right. But Don Jr., Eric and Ivanka are all names.

in this filing by James, in this lawsuit, rather. So it's going to be really interesting. Like, I'm starting to think that Tiffany is the mastermind. He's Kaiser-Soze? Exactly. She is like the puppet master, you know, behind the scenes, making all of this stuff happen. I'm kidding, of course.

Please, I know I think she's now a graduate of law school and I don't want her suing me. So I just want to point out that's a joke. That is a joke. I believe she is a delightful young woman and I'm glad that she is not part of this and good for her. I do think I just want to say one last thing about Tish James and this case. You know, one of the things Trump defenders love to say, right,

is that everybody gets away with real estate crimes. Like, that's their favorite defense of Trump. It's like everybody gets away with real estate crimes. All real estate people lie about how big their apartments are or how much they're, you know, they all inflate assets, they all use, there's a thing in the tax system to make real estate people richer where they can devalue their assets every year and then they can take a deduction on the devaluation, which is completely crazy. But I would like to say that actually people do go to jail for this. Like I knew someone who went to jail for this. Like this kind of thing actually is something

that you can go to jail for. I mean, I think there's also a case that perhaps the IRS will come after Trump in this because they also have a pretty good case that Tish James has set them up for. So we are not talking about stuff that's so above and beyond. I mean, the thing is Trump, you know, has lived like a criminal for such a long time and done so many crimes that there really is. I mean, we're just used to him getting away with that. But a normal person would go to jail for a lot of this stuff. Yes, a normal person probably would have been in jail decades ago for the stuff. Trump has gotten away with and his family.

But yeah, and of course, you know, we should point out that Trump is going the usual route here and saying that just James is racist. It's just amazing how it's literally the same playbook over and over every time. And it's the usual thing where it's everything they say about other people is actually about themselves. So this is what this country is dealing with. And the sad thing is this will probably, you know, much like the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago, this will probably boost Trump's rating among Republicans. But we can't worry about that

anymore. At some point, the right thing has to be done. Kudos to Tish James for at least so far appearing to do that. So an interesting thing happened on September 21st. We might have, call it an unforced error. Leader McCarthy, I don't know what he's the leader of. I guess he's the minority leader. I think it was Ruben Gallego who said, I can't imagine someone that's stupid being the Speaker of the House. It's definitely not the thought leader. Yeah, I think that's what Rubin said. He's quite stupid. I mean, even more stupid than the usual. And so he accidentally rolled out this commitment to America by, and he posted on the webpage of House Republicans. And then he went and tried to password protect the website again.

But members of Nancy Pelosi's office or someone near and dear to them, it wasn't us, sent them screen caps of what this commitment to America would look like. It's just about what you would think, Andy, Levy, discuss. Yeah, it's, by the way, when this popped up and then I saw it was already password protected, I tried a couple of passwords. I tried, there is no God but Trump, and that didn't work. MAGA 123. Did you try MAGA, 1, 2, 3?

I didn't try MAGA, 1, 2, 3. That's probably what it is. I bet you $100 that's MAGA 1, 23. Yeah. But yeah, these excerpts are, on the one hand, yes, it is exactly what you would expect. But on the other hand, it's just, it points out that they want to repeal lower drug prices for seniors. They want to, according to Pelosi's, document, as she describes it, it's a commitment to undermine free elections and our democracy.

But basically what they want to do is what the usual thing Republicans want to do, they want to make it harder for average people to vote. And by average people, I mean usually minorities. It's exactly what you would expect. It's abortion. It's all these things. And it's just unreal. 179 House Republicans have co-sponsored or endorsed. as members of the Republican Study Committee, a bill to criminalize abortion nationwide after six weeks. Right, but none of that. That stuff isn't from the handbook.

So the contract with America is all the things that all of us are worried about them doing. They want to do. Commitment to America. This is contract with America to Boomer Bugaloo, I think. So they want to basically, they want a nationwide abortion ban. They want to, get rid of the lower-cost drugs for seniors on Medicare.

They have some idiotic thing falsely called a parent's bill of rights that will, in part, ensure that only women can compete in women's sports, this huge problem that is rocking the nation. Yeah, because they suddenly care so much about women's sports. The people who have never given a shit about a woman's activity ever in their lives are now obsessed with the idea that maybe a woman would lose a sport. It's the usual GOP rollback to the 1950s or maybe the 1850s, depending on what mood I'm in at the time.

They want to go after tech companies for what they claim is like silencing conservative voices. They want to hire 200,000 more cops because that's a great idea. The interesting thing to me is, like, this thing sucks from beginning. to end. Why did they password protected? What are they ashamed of? Yeah, because they know they suck. I mean, sorry. Yeah, but I mean, it's, yeah, it's amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Matt Fuller is a senior politics editor at The Daily Beast. Welcome to the new abnormal, Matt Fuller. Thank you for having me. I don't even know what to do with that introduction. Yeah, well, we get enthusiastic here when I drink enough coffee. Very enthusiastic. One of the big exciting moments. This

week was there's a book, Rachel Bade, co-writer of Playbook, has a book coming out called Unchecked about the quickie second impeachment of Donald J. Trump that happened after Trump led an armed insurrection. In this book, it shows that McConnell was basically quite close, closer maybe than any of us thought, or at least than some of us thought to just calling the whole thing quits. Talk to me about whether you think that has changed the world, the McConnell, Trump dynamic. First of all, at this point, I don't think Trump and McConnell have much of a dynamic, right? They're not communicating with each other. Clearly, there's no love loss.

I don't think there was much love lost while Trump was president, but both of them sort of tolerate each other out of convenience. I think we knew that McConnell had real problems with Trump and his January 6 actions. I think that was very clear as soon as they acquit Trump and McConnell. goes out there and delivers a pretty eyebrow-raising tweet, speech, I should say, even better than a tweet on the Senate floor. I think the takeaway for me was like, wait, why did you just vote to acquit him? Ever since that day, there's really been no relationship to speak of. I do think it's a little bit surprising just because, you know, McConnell at his core is just a political operator.

And, you know, he knew that voting for Trump for impeachment would probably be. be a mistake for Republicans, just because I think you'd lose a lot of the Trump base there. And I think that's what ultimately, you know, the way he decided was, okay, for my party, for the Republican Party, which is basically how Mitch McConnell thinks of every question, I have to vote to acquit, even though I very strongly feel like he clearly deserved to be impeached here. So there's not much of a relationship. I don't think anything in this book is going to really change that. It's clarifying, I think, in a lot of ways that Mitch McConnell absolutely thinks Trump should have been impeached, that Trump's, Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors

here, that he absolutely had a role on January 6th in stopping the insurrection and starting it and that he should have stopped it and didn't. So, you know, I think that's always been the case, but now it just, it's a little clearer. I don't think, you know, Donald Trump is going to be reading this book. And I'm not sure Donald Trump reads many books at all, but one from, you know, post colleagues, one now at Politico, one still at the post. That just doesn't seem like it's going to make his nightstand. I have to say it's on my desk right now. And it's a really fun book, but it's many, many pages.

I think it's like 700 pages. It started with the first impeachment. I mean, that was the book where it started. And then I think the second impeachment came along and they had to refocus a little bit. But I think it's supposed to be about both impeachments. So kind of an interesting look at that whole endeavor. It's a tomb. I think it's worth talking about this for a second.

one of the other conflicts with McConnell and Trump is that, and this I really want to ask you about, because it's really interesting to me. So Trump has $80 or $90 million in his pack. And he's not using any of it, right? Very Trumpian of him. Yes. Trump doesn't really like to dish out money for candidates. He does so on a very rare basis. But obviously, that money would come in handy right now because we're looking at, you know, it seems like Democrats are going to retain the Senate.

I guess that really the best guess, and really is at this point, just a guess. But certainly that money could be used in a lot of these Senate races. Where could that money be used? Well, they just pulled out of Arizona because it doesn't seem like it's pulling very closely. But Arizona, of course, New Hampshire is very close. It seems like you could use it in North Carolina very badly. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida. I mean, these are all very tight races.

I mean, you're looking at these, looking at the board across from it. We have races that are basically. polling within the margin really everywhere. Obviously, Georgia, very close. I think a lot of these races are going to be determined just by a few points. And as anyone who does elections can tell you, you know, in a house race, you drop a million dollars the last two weeks, do negative ads. You could feasibly move a race by 10 points.

Center races are a lot more difficult, a lot more expensive, but certainly buying up ads right now, locking those in, spending that money. that could be very valuable for Republicans actually taking the Senate. Certainly very valuable for Republicans taking the House. And Mitch McConnell is doing everything he can. He has his own pack with coordination rules here, notwithstanding. He's spending every dollar he has and then he's going to borrow some more and spend that too. Donald Trump is just going to sit on his war chest, use it judiciously for himself.

And that's always been the Donald Trump playbook. Talk to me about what you're seeing in these races. There's this conflict between McConnell. and the man who can never be named Peter Thiel. Can you talk to us about that? About funding Teal's candidates? Well, I think McConnell feels like Teal has plenty of money and can fund them himself. It seems like Republicans are basically leaving Arizona to Peter Thiel and saying,

you know, you guys take care of this one if you can. It just doesn't seem like enough of a race. The truth is Mitch McConnell would, if he had his druthers, if you could guarantee him 51 seats right now, now, he would take that deal. Even if it came at the expense of maybe winning 53 seats, he would take the narrow majority. So Mitch McConnell is looking at this in a very Machiavellian calculated way where he just needs to win 51. That's the most important number to him. Where I think a lot of Republicans are looking at and go, well, we want to make sure we win that

Arizona seed or Ohio, and particularly Peter Thiel has his candidates who are very closely associated with him. And I think McConnell's thinking, like, listen, buddy, you're going to have to take care of your own here and everyone's sort of looking at each other awkwardly waiting for someone to pick up the check but yeah i mean you know mcconnell's making a calculation here where are the one of the races that are closest where does he really need to spend money they've definitely decided that they need to spend money in ohio which obviously jd vance is a peter teal candidate but they're also looking at arizona and going that's just it's a bridge too far for us um it seems like mark kelly is going to win that race again you know uh all the normal caveats about it being september and

these races can move quite a bit. But if you had to bet, you've certainly bet on Mark Kelly right now. And Republicans are betting on Mark Kelly. So are Democrats. They're looking at the field and saying, all right, where are the races that we actually could win, that the spending will matter? And that answer is Pennsylvania, maybe, Georgia for sure,

North Carolina for sure, got to definitely lock up Ohio, maybe a little bit in New Hampshire, might want to spend a little bit in Florida. You think Republicans are going to spend in New Hampshire? I think so. I mean, this is still, it's still a tight race. Now, you know, New Hampshire is an interesting situation. I'm from New Hampshire. Yeah, talk to us about New Hampshire.

Oh, and you're from New Hampshire. My husband's cousin is from New Hampshire. Yeah, and Don Bulldoch is actually from the town over for me, and Maggie Hasson is from my town, and I went to school with her son, Ben. I mean, I love you, but it's like three towns. It's the whole state. It's three times. I would fucking hope you know all those people.

Sorry. I know. Excuse me. It's right. Chrisanuna's the town over. Don Boldick's the town over. Everyone's the town over. Right. It's one city. Yeah, I know. I know it. Look, New Hampshire really didn't have a candidate for the longest time. It was Maggie Hassan versus insert Republican here. Certainly, I think how the primary shook out that that definitely helps Maggie Hassan. They were definitely more scared of the establishment Mitch McConnell back to Chuck Morse. But Don Boldick, he has some excitement and he's a real candidate. He's a Republican. They can't. can run. And frankly, this is still a midterm. New Hampshire is still a very purple state. There's a possibility there. I think Maggie Hassan, again, if you're, if you had to pick one, you're definitely going to say Maggie Hassan is the, uh, the favorite in that race.

Um, but it's not for, it's not for sure. And if this were Chris Sununu, I think everyone thinks Sununu would have wiped the floor with her in this midterm. So, um, Democrats really might have lucked out on this one, but it's not for certain. And both sides, I think are going to have spend a little money there to make sure I'm surprised doesn't happen. What other races do you think Democrats lucked out on? Obviously, Pennsylvania is working out very well for Democrats. They're

clearly up at least a little bit there. It's kind of incredible how much of a bad candidate Dr. Oz has been and how good of a candidate, I guess John Federman's been. He's really been able to sort of rise above a lot of the controversy and the attacks that Oz makes on him haven't really stuck. I mean, I think

he's found a low traction with the stroke stuff and him not wanting to debate, but Certainly, Federman has seemed to really make Pennsylvania a pretty strong bet for Democrats. Obviously, you know, I think in retrospect Republicans are kicking themselves over Herschel Walker in Georgia. Really? I know. You're total shock, right?

Herschel and his four kids and counting all sorts of scandals and just a person who can't seem to get a sentence with a noun and a verb out. He's really struggled as a candidate in Georgia. And I think that that was a very winnable race for Republicans there. and right now Raphael Warnock, again, close. Nothing's for certain, but he'd rather be Warnock in this race right now. Otherwise, I mean, you know, it's funny because I think everyone started this year, particularly when inflation was really bad, gas prices are really up,

and just sort of the general mood was, oh, it's a midterm election, Republicans are going to win. And it seemed like, you know, the idea of Democrats retaining the center or maybe even adding to their seats, which right now I think the best projections really do have Democrats winning seats, maybe up to 53 seats or so. That seems sort of unfathomable, but Republicans did sort of shoot themselves in the foot with some, I think, some weaker candidates where, you know, you're having to spend in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Ron Johnson in Wisconsin, he may pull it out.

If I had to bet, I would bet on Johnson there. Ron and on, yeah. Yeah, Ron and on. But, yeah, the conspiracy, I think a lot of voters in Wisconsin are also a little tired of Ron Johnson's shenanigans, and certainly, you know, it could go either way. All of these races are very close. Nothing is decided. And again, it's still September. And these races really do get decided the last weeks of October on election day. It's all going to be very close. But, you know, I think Republicans made a big bet here, which was we're going to run on this

economic message, inflation, gas prices. And those things have sort of leveled off. People's feelings about the economy have improved. Certainly, you know, this idea that we're in a recession, I think, has been debunked at this point when you're growing 500,000 jobs. Yeah. So that message is not having as much traction right now. People are seeing gas prices go down and they're feeling a little bit better about the economy. So Republicans have had to pick out other issues, right? So now it's become, again, immigrants flooding the border, which, you know, a perennial issue for them. But violent crime. And abortion, they can't win on abortion, right? Well, and that's the, and that's the big animating factor for Democrats, I think, right? In a midterm, you're betting on your voters coming out

and people who are just not that excited, low engagement voters, not showing up. Abortion was just maybe a bridge too far for Republicans, where you finally have a lot of women who are really pissed off about this ruling and feel like something has to be done here. And now Democrats have something to push voters to the polls. Republicans are trying their best to muddle this message. I think this It's funny how this Lindsay Graham 15-week abortion ban, it seems like bad politics for Republicans, but I actually think in a lot of ways it's a strategic message. Basically, you change the conversation from a total abortion ban, which is really what, you know, this decision was for a lot of states, and you may get, oh, a national 15-week ban, and people start saying, well, you know, maybe I can live

with 15 weeks or, you know, what's the science on this? And those questions are really, they're not all that material, because first of all, this bill is not going to become law. But second of all, in a lot of states, it is a total abortion ban. Well, I mean, that's what I don't understand is Lindsay Graham. This is bullshit. Yeah. Like, if Republicans win, they're going to ban abortion nationwide. And that's what Pence said.

Right. So, like, this is just like Lindsay trying to get everyone distracted. Yeah, I think it is a distraction. I think it changed the conversation, again, from total abortion ban, which, you know, we know, polls very poorly to, oh, maybe this, you know, in it. better yet than it used to be the 20-week abortion man. Now, this is 15-week abortion bit, but they'd really love to frame it as a, you know, a late-term abortion ban, right? Right, because that they can win on. Can we talk about the great state of Nevada? Nevada. I'm sorry, I said it was Nevada, and Senator Cortez Mastow was like, it's Nevada.

Right. Adaboy. That's how Nevada. Nevada. Nevada. So let's talk about the great state of Nevada. Yeah, again, another very close race, another race where you have an extreme Republican who, you know, I think this is a tough, this is a tough race for Republicans because there were better candidates than Adam Lacksalt. And Cortez Mastro, I think, is pretty popular. I think also Nevada is an increasingly blue state, but it's certainly not a solidly blue state and it's certainly a state that's up for grabs. It's also another one of those sleeper races. I, you know, this could go either way. And it hasn't been as much attention because, frankly, I think Adam Laxalt is a sort of a known quantity. I'm not saying he's not crazy and a conspiracy theorist and out there.

But certainly Dr. Oz and Herschel Walker are grabbing a lot more of those headlines, you know, Blake Masters. Those headlines are, I think, a lot sexier than this just sort of Adam Laxol, what's going on in Nevada race. So an interesting race could go either way. But, again, I think you'd rather be cast to Cortez Mastro in this situation than Adam Waxall. Yeah, it sounds like it. Any other interesting races we should talk about? Well, I just, I would just want to one more point. Again, Republicans went all in on this economic message. That started losing some traction. They've shifted a little bit to this violent crime and immigrants flying the border. Always going to throw in some bathroom issues and COVID, you know, get those masks off my face.

that stuff. But I just don't know how effective all that is. You know, when I was in New Hampshire recently, I kept on seeing ads that were like, I'll abolish the IRS and we have to stop Nancy Pelosi. And it was just such extreme stuff. Whereas the Democratic message was, you know, I'm helping to lower prescription drug prices and I'll support a stock trading ban. Very, I think, positive messages that a lot of people can agree with. And actually, we just saw an NBC poll this this week that basically summed up the two parties' overall messages, right? What corporations paying their fair share, keep abortion legal, lower health care and drug costs on the Democratic side, and then the Republican message of, you know, gas prices, food prices are too high, we have to do something about immigration,

COVID test scores are a problem, we need to get back to school, all that sort of stuff that already happened, basically. But overall, Democrats are winning on that message. So we both know that the hardest Republicans and the hardest Democrats are going to show up. They're always going to come vote. In a midterm, it's about who stays at home and who shows up. And again, I think the big miscalculation for Republicans was abortion. And this is a real animatic factor for Democrats. And it could tip the scales in a number of states where they finally have something that's going to, you know, bring people to the polls. Matt Fuller. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Molly. Aswood Subasang is the senior politics reporter at Rolling Stone.

Welcome to the new abnormal, Swin. It is so good to be back, but it is a bittersweet moment because I hear I'm on for your farewell series finale episode. Yes, this is my last episode of the new abnormal, but not my last foray into the podcast genre. Right. I hear there's this other guy taking over for you. I just want to remind him that when Donald Trump left his hugely successful historic rating success, The Apprentice, and that this other guy named Arnold Schwarzenegger take over for him, it tanked massively after, I think, less than one season or maybe just purely one season. So I forget the name of the imbecile is taking over for you, but I'm just putting that in his ear just to give him a little pep talk just ahead of time before he takes over.

That's very nice. I like any scenario where I'm compared to Donald Trump. So let's get talking about your reporting here. And we're going to start with Rabbi Shmuli. Perhaps you've heard of Rabbi Shmouli, Bote. author of the book, Cauture Sex. I mean, that guy has been around a long time because, like, I remember him from the 80s, and yet he does not age, and yet he has turned on his best friend, celebrity doctor.

Explain to us what the fuck is going on here. Well, first of all, to your point about Rabbi Shmulli, not aging, I guess that's what religion does for you when you are really in it, including it on a, professional basis. And you're right. He has been around for long. The time he's been a player in conservative pro-Israel political circles, but he's also been something of a cultural and pop cultural fixture because he's been a quote-unquote spiritual advisor to the stars, or at least some of them, like certain major celebrities. Yeah, like Madonna. Sure. And he, well, you would know more about that, I think that than I would. He was a spiritual advisor to Madonna. I didn't do enough research or Googling on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyways, so go on. He was someone who,

he was in the Oprah stable, as was Dr. Oz, who's now running as a mogified version of himself, of course endorsed by former President Trump in the critical Senate race in Pennsylvania. So to go back to what you were talking about, the reason the relationship is important is because this celebrity rabbi and this celebrity TV host and doctor have been buddies for a long time, going back, years. And I think for about a decade, or the better part of a decade, Rabbi Schmulley would privately counsel Dr. Oz on what kind of, quote, unquote, values-based campaign that the two of them could envision for Dr. Oz to run. At the time, Rabbi Schmulli says he didn't know if he was going to run as a Democrat or as a Republican or an independent. Obviously, we know what he's running

as in 2022. But back then, I think we can at least say that Dr. Oz was at the very least, more culturally liberal than he is or pretending to be right now. I don't know if you would call him an avowed left wing or whatever. I didn't spend too much time studying his personal political history dating back to the 80s or 90s, but there definitely has been something of a remodeling. Rabbi Shmulli is a Republican and has been for quite some time. In fact, he himself ran unsuccessfully for U.S. Congress as a Republican years ago for New Jersey. This is someone who at the beginning of Dr. Oz's campaign for this Senate seat, Rabbi Shmoli was effusively praising of Oz, saying he is one of America's most famous or foremost doctors. He's a lifesaver. He's a dear friend of mine.

I've known him for a long time, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it began not with necessarily an endorsement of the campaign, but an endorsement of the man and basically saying it is a good thing that this man is running to be a United States lawmaker. As the months and as the year dragged on into fairly recently when Dr. Oz got finally got his Donald Trump endorsement and got more and more and more magified as the campaign, the primary, and then the general election against Democrat John Federman went on. As we now know via private text messages and emails obtained by Rolling Stone, as those months dragged on, Rabbi Shmully would fairly rarely email or text message Dr. Oz directly, and or his senior campaign staff to berate them with how grossly disappointed he was with how this

campaign had turned out. He would lamb base them for not being emphatic on what they and Dr. Oz thought of the Armenian genocide or Turkey's authoritarian leader Erdogan. He would absolutely trash them for what Dr. Oz and his campaign did in terms of fat shaming and making fun of John Federman for having a stroke. I believe that happened earlier this summer. And there were just a whole host of issues where he would just continually trash his dear and personal friend, Dr. Oz, for running a grotesque, disgraceful campaign. Who are these text messages to? They are sent directly from the rabbi to Dr. Oz and or his senior campaign officials. And so basically, Rabbi Shmooley has been telling the Oz campaign to stop being horrible? Yes. And as you can probably guess, this didn't have much of an

impact in terms of changing the character of the campaign, because why would it change? They're, they're not appealing to Oprah's audiences. Right. They're appealing to the Republican and maybe some independent voters in Pennsylvania. So for this article that we put up at Rolling Stone, we also interviewed Rabbi Shmulli, he's been very emphatic in saying that the candidacy of Dr. Oz, as it currently stands in its current form is a tragedy not just for the Jewish people, but also for the American people at large. How is it bad for the Jews? I mean, as a Jew myself, I'm always wondering. Well, Rabbi Shmuli is very focused on the issue of, for instance, the Turkish president Erdogan, who he considers one of the world's foremost any Semites.

Probably true. Dr. Oz, who has had dual Turkish and American citizenship. And voted in the 2018 Turkish election. And does seem to kind of have this perhaps concealed, if not affinity, at least respect and handling with kids' gloves attitude towards the strong man Erdogan. It's Rabbi Shmali's opinion that his dear, close, long-time friend, Dr. Oz, if you don't have the ability to even once in one tweet or one public statement, forcefully condemn this man, And what business do you have being a United States senator who asks to deal a lot with things like American foreign policy, including towards Turkey and NATO and things like that? I might be agreeing with Rabbi Shmulli. Oh, well. I'm worried.

One of the things Rabbi Shmuli Botak wanted to get across very effusively in his interview with us is that he said if these things continue as they currently are and if Dr. Oz is not willing to change. and there is no indication that the campaign sees Amy need to correct horse just to please this celebrity rabbi and long-term friend of Dr. Oz's. Rabbi Shmulli's opinion is that Dr. Oz should withdraw from the race against John Federman immediately, which, again, I'm not holding my breath for the Oz campaign to do just because this one guy has called upon them to do so. But if this informal political and spiritual advisor and someone who has considered himself besties with Dr. Oz for just a long period of time is trashing the campaign as this much of a grotesque tragedy and disgrace. Again, not just to the Jewish people, but to all the American people. I mean, I guess that might tell you something about what way this campaign is gone and what it means for the direction of the modern day conservative movement and Republican Party. I don't know. Maybe to some people that would say something.

I'll leave that up for you and your listeners to decide. So let's talk about this idea that DeSantis stole Trump's bit. How did you get this story? And what do you think this means? Well, this actually goes quite a bit back before the Martha's Vineyard Stun. And we'll get to that in a moment. But for a while, we actually had this reporting, I think, a few or a couple weeks ago at rollingstone.com. where we'd found that it wasn't just former President Trump,

but it was other members of the Trump family, who for the past year or at least several months have been getting privately pissed off at Florida governor run Descentes because they think he's stealing not just Donald Trump's bit, but their bit. Donald Trump, Jr. is convinced that DeSantis and DeSantis' senior staff monitor his Twitter feed. and if Donald Trump Jr. is mad about something or amplifying or signal boosting some MAGA or right-wing cultural grievance of the day or of the week, Desantis and his team will very coincidentally soon whip it up into some sort of press release or speech or policy or policy announcement. And this has happened enough times that Don Jr. has sort of raised an eyebrow and been like, okay, are you guys just skimming my MAGA Twitter feed for your policy ideas?

And to be perfectly honest, it's not the craziest suspicion, given the timing behind a lot of these things. But more prominently, Donald Trump will semi-regularly bitch to some of his closest advisors and confidants that DeSantis, he even tries to talk like me. He does his little hand motions. Wait, Don Jr. says that? Donald Trump, Sr., former president Trump. Like he'll steal my body language and he'll try to talk like me. I mean, he's joked privately that maybe he should sue Ron DeSantis for copyright infringement. And if you as a regular political observer look at any number of random videos of Ron DeSantis,

you will see that, and I hate to hand it to the guy, but you will see that the former president has a point. Molly, have you spent any time even casually studying the body language of Ron DeSantis and the way he talks? No, I have not. And even the way he dresses. and stands. It is, it's hilariously like a pantomime of Donald Trump. I mean, it's unmistakable. He's clearly copying the guy, which is, you know, hilarious to me. You haven't noticed that at all. Yeah, I mean, with the big suits and that's kind of thing. Right. And the little hands where it looks like it's a T-Rex struggling to get the hands outside of the length of the waist. Yes, yes. T-Rex hands.

I don't think Trump can copyright T-Rex hands. He's probably certainly tried. He's tried to copyright things of that nature. So who knows what's next if DeSantis keeps this up. Anyway, so we have it in our reporting that Trump views DeSantis not only as a stylistic fief of his, but also someone who's trying to copy or counterfeit the MAGA brand that obviously Donald Trump created. And this manifests itself multiple times over more than the past. year where Trump has been venting to some of his top advisors that he knows what DeSantis

is up to, that DeSantis is not backing down and perhaps even setting himself up to quite possibly take on Donald Trump in a 2024 Republican primary. And this is something that enrages Trump sometimes when he talks about it behind the scenes, because he is the main guy, both in the polls and in the prospective 2024 Republican field, who stands. is the biggest conservative threat to Trump regaining the nomination should he choose to seek it starting in a year or whatever. Now that we've had that established, flash forward to what DeSantis does with the plane loads of migrants and asylum seekers that he sort of hurls at Martha's Vineyard. Some may call it a political stunt. I think someone such as yourself, Molly, would call it

a ham-fisted human trafficking operation, maybe something like that. Right. So something that your ego-eyed listeners might have noticed is, let me put this way, try to count the number of times since that has happened that the former president has publicly weighed in on the Martha's Vineyard stunt and Ron DeSantis. This is against the backdrop of a chorus of prominent and high-profile MAGA figures, Republican politicians, conservative commentators and journalists who are very much aligned with Donald Trump and MAGA. Just follow. over themselves to talk about how great Ron DeSantis is and how brilliant and cool a move this inhumane thing was. So you're saying Trump's inability to weigh in or his lack of interest in says more than anything about his displeasure at DeSantos. Right. And as you know, Donald Trump is someone who basically always immediately pounces on any major news item, whether it's pop cultural or political of the day. He basically can't help himself

from weighing in enthusiastically on any number of things, but somehow this huge thing in the news cycle right now he's being very reserved on. We'll have to check the transcript, but I don't think he even mentioned it at his rally in Ohio over this past weekend.

So none of this is a coincidence. We talked to knowledgeable sources on the matter who have told us, yes, the former president is miffed about this, because he remembers this as his idea, or at least his administration's idea back in 2018 or 2019, that they wanted to bus migrants to sanctuary cities as a punishment against them and Trump's Democratic political opponents. This was something that the Trump administration ultimately did not really get off the ground because too many of their lawyers told them, you can't really do this. It's illegal. But this is something that Trump talked about that he wanted to do and was,

seriously considering when he was president of the United States. And now he's kind of fuming behind the scenes that Ron DeSantis is not only stealing his idea, but also he has told people close to him that he suspects DeSantis is doing this to try to steal the news cycle from Donald Trump. Very Trump. Exactly. In the wake of the Mar-a-Lago federal raid. Wait, he wants to stay in the news cycle with the raid? I feel like... Yes, of course, of course, Trump has all but said publicly that the raid actually gave him not just a bump in the polls among Republican voters, but specifically against Ronda Sanders. I'm not sure if you missed this or not. Right. No, I know Trump world was like we won the raid.

Even beyond that, I think not too long before the Martha's Vineyard stunt happened, Trump's political office blasted out a brief statement, and they don't do this. without Trump's explicit desire or approval, a article that stated that after the Mar-a-Lago rate, Trump got a, I don't know what was, and I don't know what poll it was, but something like a 10-point boost over Rontas-Santis. And it explicitly names him. So not just based on our report.

Can you just explain to me how that squares with the pack only raising $40 last month? Like, if it's good for Trump, then why is he raising $1,000? So little money. Good for Trump is a subjective term. But Trump truly does believe the more he's in the news, the more he can command attention, even it's with stuff as scandalous and potentially criminal exposure filled as stuff like this, whether it's the federal investigation into the January 6th stuff, whether it's the federal investigation into the documents at Mara Lago. He really does believe as much as he can command the news cycle, it will be better with him. with among other individuals, Republican primary voters, and a 2024 primary has not happened yet. We don't know exactly who will be in that field. But his theory, I think, probably has some legs.

But again, it's untested in the real world at this point. It was wonderful to have you on the podcast. It's always a delight. I am just thrilled to get to talk to you. And I look forward to continuing reading your amazing reporting. Thank you so much for having me on. Andy Levy. Molly Jongfest.

Who is your fuck that guy? I have a fuck that guy for this week, but before I get to it, I do want to point out that in an interview on this podcast, some Rolling Stone reporter, I guess compared this podcast continuing after you leave Molly to what happened when Arnold Schwarzenegger took over the apprentice from Donald Trump. And I guess in that case, it didn't do well as I guess his point. would like to point out that Arnold Schwarzenegger is a beloved American member of society and Donald Trump is a criminal. Wait, wait, things have gone really off the rails here. If we're going to be making comparisons, Molly, it seems that you are the one who should be upset by this comparison, not me.

I did actually mention that at the time. I said, you know, I don't like to be compared to Donald Trump. and also does this mean I'm president now? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And I can declassify some documents. You know, how he has a job is beyond me. But it's, you know, that's neither here nor there.

But anyway, maybe I'll have him on the podcast here and we can settle this. Mono a mono or mono a swinno. Anyway. So who is your fuck that guy? My fuck that guy. Let us get back to the actual podcast. My Fuck That guy is a candidate for the House of Representatives in Ohio. Donald Trump actually did a little stump speech for him over last weekend.

His name is J.R. Majuski, and he has been campaigning as a veteran of Afghanistan, and he has tweeted things like, I would gladly suit up and go back to Afghanistan and give my best to save those Americans who are abandoned by our president. Anyway, the Associated Press did a little bit of digging and found out that he never actually served in Afghanistan. He was stationed in Japan for most of his service. And I guess for a period of six months, he was the closest he ever got to Afghanistan was he was in gutter loading planes at an airbase. But he refers to himself as a combat veteran. He does not have, according to the AP, he does not have an Afghanistan campaign medal, which you would get. if you had served there for over 30 consecutive days or 69 consecutive days, he has claimed to

have served there over 40 straight days and yet does not have this medal. And he has basically, like if you want a clear picture of stolen valor, this is it right here. And I have no, I have absolutely no, nothing but contempt for people like this. And I don't care what party this is. you know, I served during Desert Storm. I didn't serve in Desert Storm. And for 30 years or whatever, I have managed to not claim that I served in Desert Storm. It's really easy to, you know, to not make up where you served and to not lie and to not exaggerate your service. So absolutely fuck this guy. And naturally, he won the, he's one of a Republican primary. I just hope to God that enough Republican. care about this to not vote for him in the general election in November. Because just fuck him to hell. Do you want to know who my fuck that guy is? I do. This is your last fuck that guy, Mom.

This is my last fuck that guy. And I will never podcast again, accepted fast politics on IHeart Radio. Make it count. iTunes and the IHeart Radio app with Prodeezer Jesse Cannon, who's also coming with me. Jesse cut all of that. I want all of that fucking gone. Republicans are against protecting future coups. I know you will be surprised to hear this.

So there are nine Republicans who voted in favor of not letting it so that Republicans can do coups anymore. It's called the Presidential Election Reform Act written by Liz Cheney, who is a Republican, and Zoe Lofgren, who is a Democrat. And the idea here is that it will keep presidents from manipulating the electoral vote count. Many people would think that this is a no fucking brainer because you don't want your president. You know, you don't want the president going in there being like, no, if I didn't win, I don't want it. But in this case, only nine Republicans voted for it. They are, of course, the like nine Republicans who do.

stuff that isn't MAGA, right? They're Jamie Herrera Butler who also voted to impeach John Ketko, and a lot of them are retiring too, right? And those are the only people who voted against a president being able to do a coup and how, you know, democracy. It was nice while it lasted. Again, I don't know. I mean, what do you fucking do with these people? They all those 147 Republicans who voted that coups aren't so bad, they get a hearty fuck you from May. Yes, I think also, I believe that everyone of the nine either is planning on retiring or lost their primary. Yeah. And everyone else continues.

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