The Daily Beast Podcast - The Real Reason Trump's Lost His Mojo: Don Lemon

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Don Lemon joins Joanna Coles to diagnose why Trump’s lost his charismatic touch. Lemon, Founder of The Don Lemon Show, describes a former president whose influence is fading as voters grow disillusioned with MAGA, economic distortions, and rising healthcare costs. From Trump’s credibility and health to Republican lawmakers misreading the electorate, Lemon explores the consequences of a movement built on lies and distractions—and presses a defining question: How long can the GOP survive a leader losing his grip? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think Donald Trump is losing his mojo. I do. And do you think this is, is it partly his health? Is it the economy? Is it all of it? I think it's all of the above. I think that if you build something based on conspiracy theories and a lot of lies and a lot of, you know, distractions and distortions, eventually people start to see through it and they become disillusioned.

And you can't go out there telling people, the economy's great, the economy's great, the economy's great, the economy's great, this is the best economy. me ever and they're like wait a minute i don't have any money my energy bills are up my utility bills are crazy i'm joanna coals this is the daily beast podcast big thanks to hugh dockedy for holding the fall i cannot compete with his accent but i can compete with curiosity and what the hell has been going on since i've been out of the country for whatever it was 10 days so pennsylvania rally epstein photos health premiums going up the economy economy beginning to falter and Donald Trump falling asleep pretty much all the time. And then his strange, slow, whatever, dissent down the White House stairs for the congressional ball,

buoyed up physically by the First Lady. It's always good to see her, as you know. I'm particularly intrigued by her movements. Anyway, who better to discuss this with and who has more opinions than Don. Lemon from Lemon Live, Don Lemon live in the studio. Don. So, Don, welcome. Hi, Joanna Coles.

How are you? I'm very well. I hear you just had a meta moment. I did. Okay, so if there's any, you know if you get the, you're in those mood. You're like, what am I doing? I'm working so hard, that kind of thing. And so I'm not feeling well.

And the only reason I did this was because of you. I do. I love you. Thank you. And so I jump in a taxi. and like walking down the street, I jump in a taxi, and I get it and I hear the open to my show, the music. And I was like, oh my God, I looked at the thing.

And it's like, it's not on my phone. And I looked at the driver. Well, I looked up on the little box. I heard as you know, the little taxi thing, the screen, the screen. And I was like, I'm not on taxi TV. And then the driver is playing me in his car on his cell phone and it's coming through the speakers in the car. And he has it sitting right in the middle on the dash of the steering wheel.

and so I said, and I just let it play for a while, and I said to him, I said, what do you listen to you? And he said, lemon. And I said, do you listen to him all the time? He goes, yeah, every day. And I said, do you recognize me? And he turned around and he goes, oh, man. So, Joanna, that was confirmation to keep going. That is confirmation to keep going.

So too, may I say, is your merch. Don't you love my merch? I do. I mean, I'm distressed. You haven't bought me some of your merch. I'll get you something. I should probably buy some, because we all have to say. support each other. But this is fabulous. So this is Lemon Live with Don Lemon. It's cold. I have a cold.

So sorry for all of the thing, but I'm in a day. And also what I like is the color scheme of navy and yellow. Really good. Nice shade of yellow and good shade navy. Because Navy's hard to get right. Thank you. Did you spend a lot of time organizing it? No, not really. I like the colors. There's one that has a light blue one, same color blue, and there's one that has black letters. On Navy? On Navy. That's hard to read. No, red letters. No, no. Red letters on Navy.

And then the light blue letters on Navy. Okay. So real fans will get all three. All three. The merch is crazy. I have Christmas ornaments. You have Christmas ornaments? I should have brought you a Christmas.

I mean, you should have watched a secret. I mean, I feel embarrassed because when I was watching your show, which as you know, I'm a religious fan, you've got two Christmas trees in the background. Not one, but two. We don't have a single Christmas ornament. I do. Devin, producer, get on it, please. Look at that.

Okay, so this is, that's my, you see, that's my Christmas, my holiday stuff. Oh, that's very cool. And then right here, that's the ornament. It's really cute. And it's glass. That is little lemon head. I want people to be able to see it. That is very sweet.

Yeah. In a white-gloved Santa ham. And I have a New Year's Eve box. You have a New Year's, what's in your New Year's Eve box? I think there are champagne flutes and, uh, You don't seem to know. It's champagne flutes and little party flavor. Right.

Favor things. Those poppers. Yeah. And, you know, the little hats and the glass that says, the champagne glass says New Year's Eve with Donald. I'm doing a New Year's Eve special in New Orleans. So will you be counting down? So I'll be counting down in New Orleans and you get to count down twice because it's a central time zone. I can't find the champagne thing, but it's a champagne.

I'm sorry, it's a New Year's Eve box. Okay. So if they go to, what is it, Don Lemon.com. Okay, perfect. Click on merch. Okay. All right. So you're having a better week than I think the president is.

Yeah, even though you've got a cold. But you've seen yourself on the phone of the driver. He's probably now telling all his passengers, I've just had Don Lemon in the back of my cap. Yeah, and he made sure we got a selfie before I got out. Sweet. That's such a good New York story. You're right. I've been feeling this for a while.

I think we may have talked about it when you and I have spoken, you know, on previous podcast, but I know I've talked about it. I think this was the beginning of the end of MAGA. Either it's going away or it's going to go the way of the Tea Party or it's rejiggering itself or whatever it's doing. But I think Donald Trump is losing his mojo. I do. And do you think this is, is it partly his health? Is it the economy? Is it all of it? I think it's all of the above. I think that if you build something based on conspiracy theories and a lot of lies and a lot of distractions and distortions, eventually people start to see through it and they become disillusioned. And you can't go out there telling people, the economy's great, the economy's great, the economy's great, the economy's great, this is the best economy ever.

And they're like, wait a minute, I don't have any money. My energy bills are up. My utility bills are crazy. Right. And just wait until you get your health care bill. And just, oh my gosh. And so all of that, even now, the Senate and the Congress, they can't even come together on health care. So, Don, explain to me why Republicans can't understand what's going to happen when health care premiums rise, double, treble in some cases.

How do they not think this isn't going to be a huge thing for people? You mean Republicans in general are lawmakers? You're talking about Republican lawmakers? I mean, Congress people, any way. anybody that requires a vote to be reelected, I don't understand how they think this is a winning strategy to have signed the big, beautiful bill, to have given a tax benefit to billionaires and then to tax regular people, the people that they said they were going to improve the economy for, double their health care premiums. This is all addition to, added to what Republicans have been doing on health care for a decade. They've been saying we have a plan. We don't like Obamacare, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

In the meantime, the insurance companies, CEOs are getting richer. I mean, look, it's terrible what happened to the United Health Care CEO. But that was the sentiment behind, we believe, behind what the young man did, right? So how can Republicans think this is a good long-term strategy? I don't think they, I think they think in this moment that Donald Trump can get them, out of anything, although they're becoming disillusioned themselves with it, I think that they still believe that Donald Trump has a hold on their constituents. And if they go against him, then they, too, will be, they will be voted out of office. But are these people not talking

to their constituents? I mean, I think Marjorie Taylor Green's resignation. Well, what do you think? How significant is her resignation? I don't think that they are as forward thinking as Marjorie Taylor Green. Marjorie Taylor Green had to be forced into it, I think because she got boxed out of a Senate seat. So sometimes, unless, when you're forced out of things, you are pushed into a position of awareness that you wouldn't have, an awakening that she had. And I believe she did have an awakening. I'm not sure if I believe everything on top of it. I think it's strategic. But I think other folks have not gotten to that moment yet where their real, the real political capital is with their constituents and not with Donald Trump.

Right. And so, but I do believe that increasingly Republican lawmakers are seeing that and they're becoming disillusioned. And I think Marjorie Taylor Green is just the first domino to fall in this. There will be others. There's Lauren Bolbert. There are others. Nancy Mace.

They're still supporting the president, but not on every issue, not on the Epstein issue. Right. So we saw a dump of new. Epstein photos this on Friday. What did you make of those? How closely did you study them? Perhaps not as myopically as I did. I watched,

I looked to see if I knew any of the faces. And there's one, I don't know if you saw the one with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. And in the foreground, there's a blonde woman with short hair. Yeah, is that Eva Dubin? Is that who it is?

I think it's Eva Dubin. I was trying to figure out who it was. And I was like, is she a Miss Universe, a Miss America, Miss Semen. She was a Miss Sweden. They're always a Miss something. Yes. And I said that, you know,

this morning on my show. Okay, so I studied them. You know, there was someone in my chat who said, oh, we've known this all along. I said, well, maybe we've known it all along, but to say it's not new information is false. It is new information. Right. It shows how buddy, buddy they were, the closeness in their relationship, that proximity, time, they spend a lot of time together at different events. Donald Trump admits that they were friends, but he downplays the, the relationship You know, they weren't best friends, but according to Jeffrey Epstein, they were best friends. I think these photos are significant. And let me tell you why they're significant.

Because, and I believe Donald Trump may have already seen the files himself or he has been briefed on what's in the files. Because every single person that he mentions when he's trying to distract, it's Larry Summers. It's Bill Clinton. Right. It's this other Democrat. But he doesn't mention Steve Bannon or Alan Dershowitz, who's been, you know, carrying Trump's water for the last couple of years. But he talks about all the Democrats who are in the files that I wasn't sure were in those

files. I don't know if it was public knowledge. I mean, Bill Clinton, we've heard about that. Bill Gates, we heard about it. But he's mentioning people that I think the general public were not necessarily aware about. Maybe there were rumors. And he's saying, oh, it's a Democrat, you know, hoax and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, why are you mentioning all the people who are in those photographs right now?

Because he's seen them. Because he's seen them or either he's seen them or he was in proximity with them when it happened. Oh, of course. That's interesting. Right. And what did you make of the fact that the Democrats redacted the photos of the women, which they've said all along they would redact the photos of the victims? Yeah. What are they?

Do we know these women were victims? I don't know if there were victims, but I think that they should be protected because just because you're in a photograph with some. one. It doesn't mean that you were in cahoots with them or that you were either a victim or you were a participant in whatever it was going on. Well, doesn't that go for the men too then? Shouldn't the men's face be rejected? Not the high profile men. No, because I think there's a difference between a public figure and just an average everyday person. For public figures, if you're a president of the United States, whether it's Bill Clinton or Donald Trump or whomever. And if you are in, you know, if you are friendly with one of the most prolific sex

traffickers in modern history, I think that's important for the American people to know, because those are the people who are shaping policy and the zeitgeist and world views. But I don't think that a woman or an innocent person who is just at a party should be identified because that may tar them, you know? Right. And also, we don't know if there are victims. Perhaps they are. So I do think that those women should be protected in those photographs. And even if there are men who are just some random person at a party or an event,

Joanna, you've been at events. I've been at events. I was at a Hollywood Reporter event, and I was talking to a young man who worked for MSNBC. And there was this man behind me with his back to me talking to someone else. And the photographer was where you are. And the photographer said, hey, can I get a picture of you too? And I just looked around. I said, sure.

And I looked, and this was before everything happened. It was Harvey Weinstein. Right. And so the guy just goes, okay, great, thank you, walked away in and think about it as, oh, good to see you, and I continue to talk to the other person. This is before the scandal. But someone would see that picture and say, oh, my God, Don Lemon is friends with Harvey Weinstein. I wasn't friends with Harvey Weinstein. I hardly knew him. Right. Well, photos can be deceptive like that, except that these photos, everybody seems to be lauding Jeffrey Epstein. There are people enjoying his hospitality on the private plane, Larry Summers and his wife, Woody Allen, I think. So if you're with them or you're in a number of photographs, if I'm in a number of photographs with the same person at different events or at my home, that's a whole other thing. Well, and most of these appear to be at Jeffrey's home or homes, we should say. There's one with Richard Branson on the island. He's someone who's going to have to deal with the fallout of this, I think.

Richard Branson, I didn't know that. Yeah, there's a picture of Richard Branson, Dean Kamens, who's the guy that created the Segway, and Jeffrey. Epstein and they appear to be somewhere tropical, which I'm assuming is his island, though it could have been Richard Branson's island. That also doesn't mean that they knew, you know. I mean, let's... No, of course not. And I'm not suggesting they did know. How do you know they didn't know?

I guess you'd have to ask, but still... Right. But the implicit... Here's a difference. It's implicit that there's somehow pals of Jeffries and having a good time with him. I think you say, look, um... You know, I knew Jeffrey Epstein. I had no idea what was happening and what he deserves, whatever,

and, you know, you can check it out, whatever statement that you want to release. When you're just an average everyday person, you don't have the platform or really the capabilities of releasing a statement that everybody's going to put in, you know, to exonerate yourself. I think these people, I think Richard Branson has agency as people. He can deal with it and others.

They can deal with that. What do you think about, have you been following Kathy Rumler, the general counsel at Goldman Sachs? No, I have not. What is going on? I can... Well, CNN ended a story, having really worked through the emails,

that there were more than 100 emails from Kathy Rumler, who's the former General Counsel, White House Counsel, to President Obama. She's now the General Counsel at Goldman Sachs, clearly showing that they had a great relationship, that she was a frequent visitor to Jeffrey's house, that at one point she was giving him advice about how to deal with the media trying to, you know, close in on him. So that seems also an interesting relationship that we haven't heard much about.

Yeah, well, it doesn't matter if you're Democrat or Republican or if you have, if you're doing something and it needs explaining, it needs to be explained. And whatever the consequences are, I think I don't care what you're political. and I think most people don't care what your political leanings are. It has to be dealt with. You have to suffer the consequences. I don't know that story. But if she was giving advice, was it on a professional level? Well, she says they had a professional relationship, but clearly they were friends from the emails.

But she's using saying that because is she an attorney? She's an attorney. I mean, she was literally President Obama's council, White House counsel. And she's now the general counsel of Goldman Sachs. So it doesn't get much better. than that. It's the first woman, senior woman, that's been close to him that's got caught up in it. We're used to watching senior men get felled by their adjacency to Epstein, but this is the first time a woman, I think, has gotten caught up in it. Yeah. Even still, I don't know if she knew.

I mean, maybe she thought he was dealing with scandal and maybe they were friends. I don't know. I don't want to cast aspersions on people that I don't really know. I don't feel, you know, knowledgeable enough to respond. Totally fair. I'm curious about it because it's unusual to come across a woman getting caught up in it. And also because she was President Obama's

counsel, which he had amazing connections, Jeffrey Epstein. You know, I still find it astonishing that he was running this horrible network of girls. And then on the surface, he had all these incredible connections. and he was validated by all these other people.

You're not surprised by that, Joanna. I'm kind of surprised by that. He was a very rich man, and he had influence. And look, he owned an island and a plane. And let me just say, do you know, I don't know what some of my friends do in the privacy of their homes. But the scale of this network,

this industrialized network of girls, is, I think, unparalleled. Yes, that part is. But I'm just saying, I'm responding to the General Counsel, So I forget her name. But sometimes you don't know what your friends are doing. And maybe you should be more aware.

But I'm sure there were people who were close to him who did know. I don't think that every single friend or acquaintance with Jeffrey Epstein had an idea or knew what he was doing. So I don't think that they should be somehow tainted because they knew or had a relationship or sent an email one time. Well, it's a very interesting question. At this point, they knew he had been in jail for soliciting. underage girls for prostitution. That is true. Do you have many friends that have gone to jail for that?

No, true. Right. You're right about that. And I'm not saying that they knew that it was going on contemporaneously with their friendship post his jail. But I do wonder about it. I do too. And I don't really have a good answer for that. Because if I had a friend who I don't know if I would still be friends with that person, I doubt that I would be.

And if they were, because he was found guilty and he had to, didn't he have to like go to serve time on the weekends or something? He had a sweetheart deal. Donald Trump's person. Alex Acosta. Based in Florida. And he went to jail. I think he was sentenced for 18 months, but he served 13. And most of the time he was on work release.

So he slept in the prison, but he was free to work. And my understanding is that he was continuing his. behavior, even when he was having to spend the nights in jail. But also, you have to remember, it was a different time then. You know, this was pre-Me too, right? And so, I'm not saying it's right. It's totally wrong, but society had a different sort of response to those things. Right now.

Society's always had a fairly knee-jerk horror at the idea of underage prostitution. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not saying underage prostitution. I'm not talking about underage girls. Yeah, but I guess that was part of it. I was just talking about people who are, you know, I guess, sort of traffic that's always been terrible. But I just think that now people, there's an immediate response to, you know, you can't do this. You're not getting a sweetheart deal.

Right. Times are different. Right. And so those things that may have been allowed back in the 90s or the 80s, it's terrible. They should not have been allowed. But those are the times that we lived in. I know you say that. But then you look at the fact that the Trump's appear to have been behind Andrew Tatea.

Aitone's brother getting out of Romania. There's your answer. What's behind all of this? There's your answer. It's men being men. And the New York Times report was very damning. Go on. No, I was going to say, I've given birth to two men.

I hope that they would never be involved in this. This is not all men. No, it's not all men. It's not all men. And not all men are rapists. Oh, of course not. That's not what we're saying here. Okay.

I think men have a tendency to be, you know, more of ogres and sexual whatever. Well, sexually violent. Then women do. It's just not, usually not in a woman's nature. And, you know, there's not that much testosterone and whatever. But men have gotten away with that for so long. They feel entitled. Not all of them, but some of them.

And because we're talking about, when you mentioned the Tate brothers, We're talking about the extremes of the sexes, the gender, not just the normal everyday man. Right, but their ability to somehow monetize it with this idea of the manosphere and this sort of repulsive. Right, but it's, but they have followers and they have influence in a really negative way on young men. Millions and millions and millions of young men. During the election in 2024, I interviewed a lot of those young men who, got their information from Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson and all of those kinds of folks who are like, you know, it's this hyper masculinity thing, right, what it is to be a man.

And so that's what that's what I'm talking about. But it's terrible. I know. I don't understand it because that's really not what it's like to be a man at all. Well, I would hope not. I would hope not. Otherwise it would be so depressing to be a man. It's not what it's not what it should be like to be a man. I think that men should be, I think that we should teach women to be protectors of themselves. And I think men should be protectors of women as well. But in society, you, but in today's society, especially in this sort of hyper masculine culture that's on the right, the man is ahead of the household. He leads the household. The woman is at home with kids. We need to have more children and, you know, this whole trad wife thing. That's what the right. is preaching and a lot of young men are buying into that. Well, it's Erica Kirk's new philosophy. It was Charlie Kirk's philosophy, right? The Lord is at the top of the household and the man.

And then hopefully the man is good enough for the woman to follow. That's why I think the conservatives in the MAGA right now is a conundrum with them. Well, it just feels so determinedly unmodern. But that's why, again, back to it, unmodern. And that's why you have the Marjorie Taylor Greens, the Lauren Bowberts and the Nancy Maces of the world saying that this administration does not protect women. Right. And who knew that it would be Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boba, and Nancy Mace leaning into that and supporting Thomas Massey and Roe-Kana in demanding the release of the Epstein part? But I think Thomas Massey is the real, is the real hero and champion in all of this.

I really think that he is. And look, and I have to give, as much as, you know, I have disagreed and I don't like Marjorie Taylor Green's history, you know, of her actions and what she's done, I have to give her credit for what she is doing with the Epstein files and saying that they should be released and standing up for women. And the idea that you support the victims as opposed to the perpetrators, which is also important. I mean, who's being protected here? The women haven't been protected. But I was just going to say it seems like the men are being protected. And I don't know what happened to get.

Well, Donald Trump keeps saying we can't, we can't vilify the men. We mustn't. You know, we shouldn't be using their names. The men who are in the files? Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Joanna, you know. Of course he's saying that.

While he is helping to reportedly get the Tate Brothers released from Romania, from whatever they were in exile or in house arrest in Romania. Right. Don, hold that thought. We're just going to take some ads. And I'm back with Don Lemon of Lemon Live. Baron Trump is now supposed to be talking to the Tate's. Would you, okay, as a parent, if your kid said, hey, I'm going to go hang out, I'm going to go to dinner or I'm going to go out to hang out to a bar or club with the Tates.

What would you say? Well, you know, hopefully I will never have to deal with that situation. But obviously, I'd be appalled. I'd be appalled. My mom would say, no, you're not. You're staying your ass in this house. Right. And if you go, I'm going with you.

Yeah, well, that's actually the way I'd probably say can I come too, because I would want to. find out about them. Yeah. So does Marjorie Taylor Green, do you think she leaves politics forever? I love you. You're hilarious. No. I don't think she leaves forever. You think she's coming back. I think she's coming back and I think she wants to come back either maybe as governor and maybe she wants to run for president or she'll come back as a contributor on CNN or somewhere else or at some station, which is in itself political because she's going to be talking about politics and then what's happening in the world. Well, I was thinking Carolyn Levin, must be coming to the end of her.

She must be running out of patience with this job. And she must be just thinking, when do I get my Fox News gig, right? I had a conversation with a friend about that just last night at dinner, who is a talent agent. Oh, interesting. Does not believe what you're saying believes that she loves it. She was built for this. And after this, she's going to have a much bigger career. She's probably going to end up at Fox News.

Yeah, of course. I mean, I see her with a prime time show on Fox News with her machine gun lips. just doing her thing. Yeah. Yeah. The interesting part of that is if she had to work at a network or at a place where she had to rely on and abide by facts and truth, she would not have this sort of rapid, would you say shotgun? What did you say? Machine gun.

Yeah. Yeah. Because she couldn't just. I'll speak as fast as she can. She couldn't just lie about and just say anything. She'd have to, and they would say, you can't say that because it's not true. And then she'd have to go, oh. What do you mean?

Well, it's not true. Fox News will be ideal for her. It would be perfect for her. Yeah, it would be perfect for her. Okay, so you think Marjorie Taylor Green may come back, possibly in a run for president. I could see that she might want to be the first female president. Yeah, wouldn't it be amazing? Look, again.

What a turn up for events. I think, first of all, I don't believe it now. I am willing to believe it at some point. I hope that people have epiphanies and they have a change of heart. and you know sometimes people can sort maybe they get a sodium pentothal shot and pentothal shot and they a truth serum and they realize oh my gosh I must tell the truth so I hope there's some sort of evolution for her and if she starts to show that in her actions then I'll say more power to her and I'll give her her credit but right now it's too early and there's too much history

of her doing the wrong thing. And I don't just mean ideologically, but the way that she speaks to people, the way that she treated a sitting president of the United States, the lack of respect that she has for people, you know, the things that just came out of her mouth, the conspiracy theories that QAnon that got her to that position. And so that's going to take a while for me

and I believe most Americans to get on the Marjorie Taylor Green bandwagon. she's going to have to change a lot of minds if she wants to have, you know, the possibility of being a president of the United States one day. Right, or the new leader of MAGA. So Donald Trump's... She may be a new leader. It may not be MAGA. It may be another party. Maybe what she said on 60 Minutes is the party that she's going to be the leader of, and that is the America First Party. So maybe she will start her own party.

But they will say they're going to start their own party. I mean, Elon Musk said he was going to do that, and nobody actually does. Yeah, Elon Musk has the capital, financial capital, the resources to be able to do that. But I don't believe he has the political savvy to do it. Marjorie Taylor Green does. And in a surprising way. Okay. So, President Trump seems to be – President Trump seems to have a sense that all is not going well.

He's going back out on the road. He did his Pennsylvania rally. I missed it. I was out of the country. fill me in. Okay. So I can't sit and through a whole rally. So I just watched the clips because it's ridiculous.

But it is believe there are two reasons why he did that rally, that his staff asked him or sort of pushed him out there to do the rally. One is because he's getting in the way. He's getting in the way. He's getting in the way of their work that they're doing in the West Wing and in Washington. And so they want him out, right? That's interesting. Right.

They want to, you know, okay, create some distance so they can get some stuff done. That is what the reporting and, you know, when they say the streets are talking. The other thing is, is that they see he's underwater on his numbers on the economy, on health care, and it's even dropped with immigration, although that's his best one, immigration. But specifically on the ice and all the videos we're seeing these horrible videos. That's taking his numbers down with immigration. So they told him, you have to stop saying. affordability is a hoax. You have to get out there.

These are the reports. You have to get out there and you have to tell people that it's not a hoax and that you have to get them on your side because your numbers are dropping and you're losing support. And then the first thing he does, he gets out there and he says, it's a, it's, you know, the Democrats, it's a Democrat hoax affordability. They come up with these affordability numbers and they think it. And then my staff says, you know, I shouldn't say it, but I'll say it.

It's a hoax. and he says the economy is great. Gas prices are way down. Energy is great. You got more, you're going to have, you have more money, and you don't have to buy your kids $37. You just buy them two or whatever, which is preaching.

That's, what is it, austerity. That's what he's teaching. Teaching austerity. Which is like North Korea or, you know, the Soviet Russia. So. Right, because this is the land where people can buy this. This is a land of plenty. This is the land of 30 dolls.

Yes. And so people were leaving, there was someone who spoke at the rally who said her money wasn't going as far as it was. And I was like, he didn't hear that woman. And then people were leaving the rally, the few people, the couple hundred people who did show up to that rally. They were leaving saying the president is wrong, that he's delusional as it relates to the economy. So has he lost his ability to understand the room? Because one of the things that people have always said about him is that when he's in the room, he can read the room, he understands what people want to hear. but people don't want to be told that they can't buy 30.

But in a way, he doesn't have to because he's president now. Right. And he's got him into office. And so now he's just running rough shot and he wants to do what he wants to do. He wants to become a real billionaire. And he has become a real billionaire after being in office. He wants to make his friends rich. He's doing it.

He wants to make the rich people richer. He doesn't care about poor people. He doesn't care about working class people. He never has. But doesn't he care about losing the midterms? Doesn't he care about losing the house? Well, he does care about losing. So it doesn't matter about his policies.

The way he's trying to win the midterms is through gerrymandering, is through trying to steal seats from Democrats. So it doesn't matter what comes out of his mouth. He doesn't really care. So he'll find a way to do it illegally or, I don't know if it's illegally, but in some nefarious way he's going to game the system in order to do it and then continue to push whatever he wants to push through, and that's to make himself richer.

Do you think that we will have proper midterms? Do you think they will actually interfere with them? I mean, remember the big lie. How can we forget the big lie? I think the chances of us having a proper midterm are diminishing day by day by day. Do you really? I do, yes. That's alarming.

It is. But it's giving me hope when you look at what Indiana did. Well, let's talk about Indiana. Yeah. Well, Indiana, the court there blocked the gerrymandering that the Republicans wanted to do there. That was a loss for Donald Trump. But they did in Texas, but somehow I think they've gotten it back. I forget exactly what happened in Texas. But this is a problem of his own making because he started with this by telling Texas, you got to do this and then going around, Indiana and all those places. And now Gavin Newsom is going to be in a position to be able to add seats. And so this is a problem with his own. It always does. Venezuela backfired on him. Tish James backfired on him. Yep. James Comey backfired on him. Right. Putting all his people in at the Justice Department has backfired on him.

All of these Epstein, Epstein distractions have backfired. He thought that maybe I can strike a boat, right, in Venezuela, and I can create this whole thing about drugs and then that will distract from Epstein. I'll sue all of my political enemies or try to prosecute them. rather. And then that, and then it just backfires on him. Or I just say the Democrats, you know, it's a hoax because they'll get upset if I say that. And then it just sort of backfires. But what's so interesting, too, is that he's surrounded, and we've talked about this on our podcast a lot, and I know you have too. He's surrounded himself with people who are morons who really can't do the job. These are complicated jobs. You are held to account in these

jobs. There is a court system that holds people to account. So no one is telling him, no one appears to be giving him advice saying you can't do this because it will backfire on you. Because he doesn't have anybody who is willing to do it. Right. Except for maybe Susie Wiles. I don't know. Maybe her strategy is to get him out of the White House as much as possible. I don't know. But you, you've had good bosses before and bad bosses before. And I've had good bosses and bad bosses. The good bosses want people around them who are smart and smarter than them. Right. You never want to be the smartest person in the room.

Donald Trump wants to be the smartest person in the room. Right. You're right. And so that's why he hires and he hires people who are flawed who will listen to him and who won't stand up to him. And who are, who beyond any other qualification are loyal. Yeah. And damaged. Loyal and damaged. Because they know that I would not be able to have this opportunity under any other president and at any other moment.

Right. And that's what a lot of folks are taking advantage of. companies, the companies who, the CEOs who are closing up to him beyond the media companies, they know. This is a moment to rake it in, rake in the cash, and that's what they're doing. And, you know, democracy, journalism, the First Amendment, all of that, the emoluments clause, all of that, scruples, morals, be damned. We're getting rich.

Don, we need a quick outbreak. And I'm back with Don Lemon, and we're discussing, well, we're discussing kind of everything. Do you think that it can ever be repaired? Yes, because I'm an optimist. It will take a while to be repaired. And I do think that in a weird way, I think it's kind of good that this happened because now people see, you see that we need guardrails as it relates to a president. That not all presidents are going to abide by the rules.

Not all presidents, quite frankly, are going to be as squeaky clean as Barack Obama, regardless of what you think about what he accomplished. in what he didn't. He was pretty squeaky clean as a president. You know what I mean? Yeah, there was never a hint of corruption around him. He had to. He had to. I mean, he's a black man. First black president. Yeah. So, yeah, they're all getting rich. Everybody's turning the other way and just ignoring it. And even the media, they're just ignoring it or going along. Well, we're not ignoring it. You're not ignoring.

No, but I mean, I'm talking about corporate mainstream media. We're not. We're more on the independent and, you know, we're, I shouldn't say the resistance. and I don't mean resisting republicanism or magism, but resisting lies. Yeah, although I would say the journal has been very good on this stuff, the Wall Street Journal, I'm by Rupert Murdoch, New York Times has been very dogged on it. CNN's been doing lots of stuff. Let me tell you, there's a difference. So when I say that, I don't think the problem is, the journalists are not the problem.

It's the gatekeepers, that's what I'm saying. So the journalists can't always be their full selves because they have jobs. They don't want to lose their jobs. They have families. They need to pay their bills. They need to pay for health care. They need to pay their mortgages. They need to, you know, take care of their kids and all of those things.

And so if you know you work for a company that's trying to do business with the government, then you're going to be careful because if you say something and that and you get that, you get Donald Trump pissed off, your merger or your acquisition may not go through. Well, which is why I think what's happening at the Wall Street Journal is so interesting. Yeah. Because the op-ed pages seem to be very independent. And so does the news that the paper has broken a lot of anti-Trump stories. And a lot of obscene stories.

And they are a shining example of that, but not everyone is doing it. And I think that a lot of this stuff that's happening would not be happening if it were not for the control that Donald Trump has over the media now. Right. Right. It would not. It would, it would, they would go in. Look, they want to, he said it at a press conference the other day. It's news that he wants CNN to be sold.

Mm-hmm. that he thinks CNN is being run by, as you say, very stupid people or dumb people or something like that? I'm not, something like that. All of the above. He should never be weighing in on a news organization that way. And so that's the moment where we're in. And he has made it clear who he wants to own Warner Brothers Discovery, which owns CNN. Right.

His friends, the Ellisons, who also look like they're going to end up owning TikTok. And they own CBS. And he has said when Marjor Taylor Green was on 60 Minutes, He put out the scathing post saying they should never have interviewed her. They're worse than the former owners. And why did they go along? Basically saying, why did I go along with the sale? Because you're no better than the other people.

So do you think that then ends up undermining the Paramount deal for, or the paramount bid, the hostile bid for Warner Brothers? No. Okay. Well, it looks like they haven't been able to keep control of CBS, 60 Minutes, CBS News. You mean Paramount? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they're keeping some control over it.

I mean, you're talking about because they interviewed Marjorie Taylor Green? Yeah. Yeah, I think, look, I think that they're going to continue to do good work. But it's more than 60 minutes. And it's more, and they just got started. Barry Weiss is just starting. Right. And so, you know, they are doing, I think she's doing a town, she did a town hall.

She did a town hall with Erica Kirk. I mean, how long has Charlie Kirk been dead? And well Erica Kirk's on a book tour right so I think CBS is one of the last stages of the book town hall on CBS news this late in the game sure give her an interview on the morning show like you do everybody else give her you know a segment on the evening news maybe but a town hall to talk about what that is pushing ideology in people's faces and I don't think this late in the game if there were if there was a figure on the Democratic side that news organizations. So it would be rushing to do a town hall with some, I don't even know if there's a figure like that on the Democratic side. Right. There is no one. There's no organization like that. All right.

So changing subjects, Donald Trump's health. Yeah. I can't believe that he's unable to find a foundation that actually matches his skin tone on his hand. Because it's like there's 48 different tones of foundation and concealer at this point. So why is he wearing one that? draws attention to the bruises. But we've talked before about the obvious signs. The cancals, the bruises, the fatigue.

He's fallen his sleep twice in cabinet meetings. Does he, is he able to stay awake long enough to get to the midterm? That is a very interesting question. Well, first of all, Caroline Levitt needs a better excuse than he's shaking a lot of hands. So he's not shaking a lot of hands. And so in that, and if you shake my hand. Okay. So,

this bit is completely free. I am not squeezing this. It would be here, right? Right. This is how you'd have to shake hands and don't want to get that. Right. Especially on both hands. Right.

Okay. So there's an issue with that. Is he going to, this is something I hope that people start writing books and articles about because Donald Trump can't walk in a straight line. If you see him getting on Marine one the other day, you see that like Milan. is pushing me the direction, and it's kind of wobbling.

You saw him with Putin and walking the straight line. You hear him, like, you know, he can't remember things. He confuses people. Now, look, I'm not saying that the man is losing his mind, but has he lost a step? Yes. You know, I'm not as sharp as I was in my 20s or 30s or 40s. And so this is just something that naturally happens with age, and we should all be so lucky that we get to be 70 or 80 or 90 years old because it will happen to all of us at some point.

Right, but that doesn't mean that we want the oldest president running things right now in a very complicated world. I think that I don't know if they're being, I don't believe that they're being as transparent as possible, as candid as possible about what is happening with Donald Trump's health. And he is falling asleep. He's definitely falling. No, they said that, oh, he was just resting his eyes and he's bored. It's like, okay. Well, why is he bored in a cabinet meeting?

The world is on, you know, is dealing with so many fires. Well, he, but he is alert enough in that cabinet meeting once he wakes up to be angry and to insult Somalians and to call Ilhan Omar garbage in Somalia and Somalians garbage. So he's getting angrier. He is lashing out at reporters more often. Has he always said outlandish stuff? But not to the degree that he's saying it now. Quiet piggy. I, you know.

Yeah, you're a stupid person. Yes, you're a stupid person. Your network sucks. and this is why no one watches you. He did things like that occasionally, but now it's almost every day. And part of it is distraction, I believe. And part of it is just that I think that he doesn't have control of his emotions. And I think he's really concerned about the Epstein Files.

I think they're driving him a little baddie. Yeah, that's an interesting that the Epstein Files has sort of knocked him. It's like the nail in the coffin that's just sort of. It's the thing. I think I said it on your, the last podcast we did together. It's the thing that breaks the spell. And I think it has broken the spell for a lot of people, a lot of MAGA supporters. Okay, well, Don, you have to come back.

We have to watch this. That's it. Yes, that's it. I mean, we've covered a lot of ground, my friend. You have to come back and we have to discuss this more because this is a lot. This is a lot. And it's broken the spell. I will come back and discuss more. Now, on my taxi ride home, my taxi expectations are going to be so high.

But imagine that taxi driver. He's going to be telling everybody he ran into Don Lemon. And also it's such a moment when you're like, oh, my God. And then you might think, oh, I'm going mad because I'm hearing my own theme music. That's what I thought. I was like, what is going on? At first I was like, wait, oh, wait, that's my music. Yeah, that's very cool.

Well, then it was you talking about how much you like zbiotics. Yeah. And you should get some. It works. Does it really work? I don't do, I don't have any. If you're a sponsor on my show, I've tried it. And I like it.

If not, I don't do it. No, I agree. Can I say, can I promote something? Well, it depends what it is. You can't promote zbiotics. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Though I'm happy to promote zybiotics if you pay us for an adread, but I will try them first. I don't drink enough to need zibiotic.

If you have a couple of glasses of wine and whatever, you should do it. Really? Just try, yeah, and you'll see. The most I do these days is a tequila gimlet. Oh, good. Delicious on a big rock. It's my favorite drink. Oh, good.

Well, I'm doing something very interesting on New Year's Eve and I want people. people to tune in. I'm going to be, I'm streaming live from New Orleans. I have a New Year's Eve special New Orleans on New Year's Eve on the Don Lemon show on YouTube, on Twitch, on, you know, you can stream it anywhere. Discord, all of it. Roblox. Can I stream it on the Daily Beast? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe you could. New Year's Eve, live from New Orleans with Don Lemon and I'll have some special guests and co-hosts. I haven't announced. Interesting. Okay. Well, we have co-hosted one thing before. We co-hosted one of the Oscars for CNN.

Oh, right. Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah, long time ago. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, that was fun. I lost a lot of weight to fit into my dress. But you don't need to lose weight in. Well, I thank you for that. Sadly, I no longer fit into that dress. But that was a fun event.

Who is that? Is that? This is broader. This t-shirt. It's the oldest T-shirt. It's like 15 years old, and I love it so much. It looks like some supermodel or an in excess, something photo from the 80s. It's really cool. Desert Rose.

Joanna, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Don. I will ask you to send me an ornament. Come on, producers. We need some sort of, like, we need Christmas things in the background. This is what happens. I go away, I come back. Nothing's changed.

Nothing's changed. I was expecting to walk into a winter wonderland. I was in Abu Dhabi for the Bridge Conference. And it's an interesting mix of Middle East and West because you're in a Muslim country. everybody's walking around in white robes and the women are in black. The men are in white robes with those headdresses. The women are in black robes. And then there's Christmas music everywhere and Christmas trees.

It's very odd. It's very odd. I'm about to lose it. Thank you. It's all right. We've just exhausted you. You've lost your voice. No, it's a cold.

You can't breathe anymore. Thank you. All right, Don, happy holidays. Happy holidays to you. What I love. love about Don is he's just got such great positive energy and he's always got opinions about absolutely everything and I'm intrigued that he thinks that Marjorie Taylor Green might run for president, watch this space. Anyway, he'll be coming back soon. If you have been, thank you for watching

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