The Daily Beast Podcast - The Sad Reality About Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito’s Flag Revelations

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

This week on The New Abnormal, hosts Danielle Moodie and Andy Levy discuss the fallout of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito’s controversial flag choices. Plus! We’re at the tail end of Trump’s hush-money trial, and author Jennifer Taub is here to give her thoughts. Then, The Daily Beast media reporter Justin Baragona talks about the right’s newest fever dream. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedinan, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears.

What an excellent show we have today. Well, our professor and author of Big Dirty Money, Jennifer Topp, joins us to talk about the latest developments of Donald Trump's time in court and why his allies aren't exactly helping. Then we'll talk to Daily Beast media reporter Justin Barragona, all about the right wing's newest fever dream that Joe Biden tried to assassinate Donald Trump. But first, let's have some fun. You know, at this point, I'm not 100% sure why we believe anything that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. And just like, strike it, reverse it, and therein lies your truth.

So just, you know, recently, as we're watching Glenn Yonkin in Virginia deny access to contraception, that being a mainstay in Virginia, he said, nah, I don't think so. we're watching it happen in other red states around the country. And so when Donald Trump is asked in an appearance on Pittsburgh's KDCA News, whether or not he's going to take away access to birth control, Donald Trump does what Donald Trump always does. He lies. And he says this, quote, things really do have to do a lot to do with the states. and some states are going to have different policies than others and then said that he and his campaign are going to be releasing a policy on that very shortly. When was the last time they released a policy on anything?

I just want to ask that question. Never, actually. But what Donald Trump did do when he was in office was make it harder for folks to access contraception. And again, what I will say to folks who continue to be. be on, I don't know what kind of fucking fence you're sitting on about this election. But if you don't have access to contraception, you have no control over your future whatsoever. No birth control, no abortion. Tell me what the future looks like for women and people with uteruses in this country because it sure doesn't look fucking bright to me. Yeah. So I want to be clear, Danielle,

are you saying that when Trump puts his thang down, we should flip it and reverse it? Oh my God. I am. I am. I quit. Thank you, Missy Elliott. I apologize for that to Jesse and to Jesse only. You're absolutely right. Look, to me, Trump's quote-unquote positions come in two flavors. There are the ones that he really does care about, and that is keeping brown people out of the country and all the stuff with immigration and a bunch of others.

And then there's the group where he personally does not give a damn. And that is things like abortion and birth control. And the thing is that there's, ultimately there's no difference because on the things he doesn't care about, all he's going to do is pivot to please the Christian right and basically his base. It doesn't come from any principle or anything like that. And so when he says, oh, we're going to put out a statement on that in two weeks, which by the way, that's his thing. This is like the second or third time in the last couple months. He said, I'm going to have a statement on that in a couple of weeks and there's never been a statement. So, but that's when you know. that he personally doesn't care about it. And he is putting off saying what he is going to do because he is just barely politically savvy enough to know that once he comes out and kowtows to the Christian right, that he's going to lose a bunch of people.

But make no mistake, if elected, he is going to kow to the Christian right. And we saw that in the first term. We saw that with the people he appointed to the Supreme Court. and we saw it over and over again. On issues like this, he has absolutely no principles, but it doesn't matter because the principles that he will adopt are the heinous principles of the Christian right,

of the people who want to subjugate women, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, you know, when you look at this issue, because I'm just want to lift up some of the points that were made on salon.com where we're looking at this article, which is this. Abortion rights are really popular.

Yeah. And particularly, since the overturning of Roe v. Wade, for those people who have said that they were pro-life, whatever the fuck that means, when you're willing to let people bleed out and die in parking lots, nonetheless, they are moving in the opposite direction and moving towards being pro-choice,

because guess what? Guess what Americans like more than anything else? Being able to feel like you have a fucking choice in how your life plays out and not being dictated to. It says here, 88% of Americans in 2023 said birth control is morally acceptable. Also, like, I didn't know that we lived in a Christian fascist nation where anyone taking contraceptives needs to make sure that their conscious is morally clear.

This is health care. This is not church. And we're allowing these people to confuse the two and create policies that are dictated by their religious zealicism. And I just, I can't. I can't with this. And Donald Trump, with his two-step, for anybody that believes this man, given everything that you know, that he's not going to, oh, just like he wasn't going to appoint justices that

were going to roll back Roe v. Wade, just like when those justices were asked about precedent, they gave some bullshit two-step fucking response to the questions so that we wouldn't know for certain that they were fucking liars. Take the man at his word. Take everything that he says at his word. because he will do it. Yeah. And I mean, look, it's just, he says something like that.

He says, oh, we're going to put out a policy shortly or in a few weeks. And then people start saying, oh, he basically saying he's open, you know, to letting states decide if they want to ban birth control. And then he puts out on his dumbass truth social, you know, he puts out a statement saying, oh, this is a made up lie by the media. Republicans will never take away your birth control, which, of course, is on its face. just an absolute lie because Republicans are doing or trying to do that in multiple states. And we have a case about Mepha Pristone right at the Supreme Court right now, waiting for a decision.

A case brought by Republicans and it won't be the last time. But he waffles on abortion and he takes credit for overturning Roe v. Wade in the sense of he'll talk nonstop about how he appointed those judges. but then at the same time, he'll waffle on it because he's trying to play both sides, but you have to look at what he's done. And what he's done is appoint justices to the Supreme Court that led to the overturning of Roe. And what he's done is allowed a bunch of states to go after abortion and to go after birth control. And there is literally no reason to believe that things won't get worse in a second Trump term.

So yes, he's lying and everyone should know he's lying and he's going to continue to lie because lying to him is like eating a Big Mac. It's like you got to do it every day. And so he's just going to keep doing it. And everyone just needs to be clear about the fact that he is lying and just look at what he did in the four years he was president and take that as the truth. We should probably also take things that we see for what they are as well, as well as the truth. and not what people tell us about what we're seeing with their own fucking eyes. And what am I talking about? I'm talking about Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who I swear to fucking God.

It's like just when you think you can't stand somebody more, like you can't hate them enough, it just keeps coming. That's what these Alito flag stories are like. So first off, apparently in his household, he lives in the 1950s where he knows not anything that goes on inside the home. just for the little lady to do. Like hang up flags and carry on. I don't know what she does.

You know, I'm just out in the minds of the Supreme Court. So it has been brought to the public's attention that the white supremacist Christian fascist judge, Samuel Alito, I call him that because that's what he does in each and every single decision that he puts out. If it can better the life of white people and oppress everybody else, he's fucking for it, doesn't even need to hear opening statements, has been caught not once but twice with two different flags that tell us exactly what he thinks about this country,

what he thinks about the future of this country with it? What is it, Andy, because you'll bring us through what the flags mean. But essentially, it's not the American flag upright that he's flying with great patriotism. So please tell us. Yeah, I mean, look, first we had the upside down American flag. which historically is supposed to mean basically SOS, the country is in trouble, and that got adopted by the insurrectionists and the Stop the Steel campaign in 2020, 2021. And now we have this an appeal to heaven flag, which is not as well known as that. And look, you're going to hear about, well, the flag has historical roots.

It was flown on military ships in 1775 and basically was saying, you know, we might be outgunned by the British in our war for. independence, but we have God on our side. That's the appeal to heaven. What the flag means now is basically you can take that meaning and apply it to, again, to stop this deal and the interruptionists who believe that they have God on their side. And it sort of goes further than, you know, we're outnumbered. It basically is saying God's law is above human law and we don't have to really follow human law or American law if we're following God's law. There's a South Carolina preacher named Dutch Sheets. That's his real name? Okay. Well, yeah. And he has this initiative called an appeal to heaven. And it is an entirely Christian right movement. And I'll

read from their website. They're basically very upset about separation of church and state. So they want a Christian America. And this is the flag, the flag of Christian nationalism, the flag of making America a Christian nation and not a Judeo Christian nation, which still would be wrong, by the way, but an explicitly Christian nation. And this is the flag that a Supreme Court justice thought was okay to fly on his property. I mean, he flies in in his heart every day when he's on the bench. So now just the rest of us.

know and have confirmation about who he is and what he stands for. I mean, not like, again, his decisions were all of the red flags that we've needed. But now we know for certain. And all I have to say is, you know, again, nothing is going to happen. Nothing is going to happen to any of these justice. Not Clarence Thomas for his consistent grifting over the last two fucking decades or three. Not Alito for, you know, for this flag business. Not Clarence Thomas again, for his wife being on the horn during the insurrection to make sure I guess it went off without a hitch. Nothing is going to happen. And I just want people to think about for a moment, you know, and again, I'm going to say this,

but I'm not equating these two things. But I know what the right would do if a Justice Sotomayor had a Black Lives Matter flag that was hanging out front of her home, right? Just this clear assertion that Black Lives actually matter would have her forced off of the bench. And we know because Democrats are largely fucking spineless that they would be some of the first to jump on the bad wagon. Oh, that's not becoming of a justice. Right. And make it so that she would have to resign. But when shit like this happens on the right, all Democrats do is fucking shrug. Where are the hearings? Where is the uproar? It's not just a flag. It is wrapped in his

ideology that he is putting on the rest of us, decision by decision, and nothing is going to happen. No, I agree. Nothing is going to happen. And look, we've seen there have been a couple of statements, at least from Democrats. I know Hakeem Jeffries has called for Alito to recuse himself from any of the cases that have to do with January 6th and the 2020 election. Dick Durbin has made his usual useless noises about how uncool this is. You're absolutely right that officially nothing will be done about this. And you know who actually could do something about this? I think is Chief Justice John Roberts, who always talks about, you know, and is sort of well known for caring about the reputation of the court and how

his court will be looked at by historians down the road. He could actually do something about this. And I'll tell you what, so could some of the other Supreme Court justices, particularly the ones on the left. But they won't. And because at the end of the day, they will all stand together. because black robes matter, apparently, Danielle. Mm-mm. They will stand with their own. So you're right. Nothing will come with this.

But I'll tell you what. Democrats should be talking about this shit, and they should be talking about this shit every day up until November and pointing this out and letting people know what this flag means and what it calls for and what you're going to get more of in a second term of a Donald Trump presidency.

Because it's absolute malpractice on their part if they just let stuff like, this slide and if they make noises for a couple of days and then let it drop and wait for the next thing. Like this is the kind of stuff that should be on the ballot come November in my opinion. I mean, I just want to say this too, just to put a fine point on this. Because people didn't like Hillary Clinton, because of her fucking emails, because she didn't want to bake cookies, because she makes people un-fucking comfortable, Donald Trump became president of the United States and elected not one, not two, but three fucking Supreme Court justices.

We have lost abortion. We have lost affirmative action. We are getting ready to lose workers' rights. We are getting ready to have a president that will be immune from any wrongdoing whatsoever. And that's just what they're doing right now because the SCOTUS term is not over yet. All of the things that they have been able to do because Donald Trump was elected in 20, 16. So when you see this group of black robes, know that we had an opportunity to stop this, but we chose not to because we didn't like Hillary Clinton, right? So just think about that when

you're saying, oh, I can't stomach Joe Biden. How many SCOTUS terms can you stomach until all of your rights are gone? Just curious. I know this not even the segment. I fucking hate these guys so much. Speaking of people with no spine, Nikki Haley, who for a very long time you may remember, was the last woman standing against Donald Trump in the Republican primaries, had a lot of bad things to say about him. Well, she now, surprising absolutely no one, says that she will vote for Trump in 2024. for. We didn't need any more proof that this is Donald Trump's party, that everybody bends the knee in the Republican Party eventually, or they get out, they get forced out like Liz Cheney or Adam Kinsinger. But the ones who stay eventually end up bending the knee. And Nikki Haley is just the latest example. It was fully expected, but it still is unreal that, you know, she did not

have minor policy disagreements with Trump and then come together to support him the way see in politics a lot. She basically ran a campaign based on the fact that he was unfit for office. And now, of course, she says she'll vote for him. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that she's eyeing the second spot, you know, because who doesn't love power over people more than Republicans do? Go ahead, Nimrata. Go for Brooke. I am always so pleased when I get to welcome friends to the new abnormal. excited to welcome Jennifer Taub, who is the author of Big Dirty Money.

She is a professor of law. She is the host of a new podcast. Hello. That is coming out. Jen, tell people about the new podcast with my, our dear friend. I said my co-host of another show, but our dear friend, Wajahat Ali, just give a quick plug. Yes, today, as you know, Danielle Waj and I are launching essentially what was his

brain trial and I'm coming along for the ride. It's called a Muslim and a Jew walk into a podcast. And it is going to be the most unholy podcast in America. I am so excited about that and excited for the two of you. So let's jump right in. Speaking of things that are unholy, which is a twice impeach former president of the United States at the tail end of one of his criminal trials. For the last couple of weeks, we have listened. to the salacious details that have come out of Donald Trump's election interference case. I continue to say that because I think that folks are caught up in the gossip rag part of this case, Jen, and not in the fact that Donald Trump wasn't just trying to cover up an affair.

Donald Trump was trying to hoodwink and bamboozle an electorate into thinking that he was worthy of the office of president. So I just want to get your thoughts on how you think that this trial has played out, the fact that the defense had two witnesses and then rested their case. What do you make of where we are as we get ready for closing arguments? Sure. And I get the sense, like embedded in your question, is there's a distinction between what's going on inside and outside the courtroom. And things are going much worse for Donald Trump inside the courtroom. room is my sense, than they are outside. Because of course, inside he doesn't control the narrative

and outside he very much does. So inside the courtroom, the biggest mistake that his defense made was calling Robert Costello as a witness for the defense. You know, you don't have to put on any witnesses. You don't have to put on any kind of case. You know, the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove every element of all 34 of these alleged crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. But, you know, I think that probably Donald Trump, you know, pressured his lawyers to bring this guy, Robert Costello, on for the purpose, two purposes. One was to undermine Michael Cohen's testimony. And I think the other purpose was kind of to be a Trump surrogate, you know, to kind of get all

testy and, you know, and, you know, sort of hump his chest. And in both regards, he utterly failed. The defense utterly failed. And Robert Costello made a fool of himself, I think, got not just on the judge's nerves, but the jury's nerves based on the reporting. And also, also, he like was completely called out by the prosecution. Because the main thing, and let me just get to this point because it's kind of important. The main way they were trying to undermine Michael Cohn was by to say, you know,

Michael Cohn's, his main point is Donald Trump was involved in covering. up this affair so it would not get out in the days leading up to the 2016 election, right? That's a key part of Michael Cohen's testimony. And the other key part is that every single one of these records that we're trying to act as if Michael Cohen was being paid a consulting fee, a legal fee of $35,000 a month for work, that's what they're trying to argue. But Michael Cohen is, no, these were reimbursements for the money I put out to Stormy Daniels and other reimbursements.

Okay. So two things at Costello did. The first thing, as I mentioned, he was like a jerk to the judge, rolling his eyes, staring him down to the point where the jury had to be dismissed. And then later, you know, you know the whole story. So that never impresses a jury. They can see how badly, poorly was treated. But also on the stand, like he's talking about the fact that these were reimbursements.

That's not helping their case. And also, you know, on the stand, he claims, you know, Michael Cohn's lying. I never put, no one in it put any pressure on him. And then you have these emails, like literally that he has to, you know, acknowledge and read out loud where he was putting pressure on Michael Cohn. Also, the guy was, Costello was saying, Michael Cohn told me Donald Trump had nothing to do with this. And Michael Cohn said, yeah, I had to lie to the guy because I didn't trust him. And the guy was like, I'm trustworthy. And then you have all this stuff about him not being trustworthy that he had to own up to.

So it was a complete disaster. So like in the courtroom, Donald Trump, I think is likely going down will have to see. Outside of the courtroom, though, he has created this circus, made him. looked like a tough guy and, you know, made himself look like he's being the target of a witch hunt. So I really think because he's gotten all these Republicans to kiss the ring and come down to stand outside the courtroom and violate the gag order, attack the judge's daughter, you know, tell lies. I think the general public at this point is probably, you know, and I mean the general public, you know, so people who, you know, aren't really following this closely, probably think he might be telling the truth. And that's a big problem. My thing about the general public is that, like, I don't know how general it is. I say that because it's like this court case is not playing out on Fox News or any of the right-wing outlets.

You have these Republicans coming down to the courthouse on a guest like these field trips where, one, they're not representing their constituents. They're going down there to represent Donald Trump looking like Donald Trump, but also saying that they're not in a cult. Let me tell you something. I have close friends, but they don't always. all dress like me. Do you know, like that's just not the vibe. Well, you know, I know you can't see what I'm wearing, but I've gotten some, some nice, my hair is looking like yours. I decided and I'm, I'm going to put

on a, I'm going to, are you wearing a sweatshirt here today? I'm going to, I'm going to start dressing like you because it feels better to be in a cult. Yeah. It's wild to me the way that these people inside of this party have just descended into full blown cultism and they don't even see the irony of it, right? And so when I say the general public, it's just like, I feel like the 70% of people who did not vote for Donald Trump, I do not believe, are now thinking to themselves, well, maybe he is the victim of a witch hunt. You are so right. Let me say it differently. People who vote. Yeah. I would say a quarter of the people who vote, you know, a ride or die Trumpers. I think the independence, you know, I think they could go either way, honestly. You know, and that's the thing I guess, Jen, that I am actually really worried about, which is when we're looking at this. jury. And I know that obviously no cameras in the courtroom, so we're just relying on what people are seeing and what people are inferring by body language and movements and what have you. Talk to us about the probability of a hung jury and the directions that were given and like,

where do you think that the prosecution made the case? Do you think that they will button up any loose ends come their closing arguments next week? I'm going to bifurcate that question. I'm going to bifurcate that question, which is that I would be very shocked if there weren't at least 12 jurors, you know, willing to convict on the misdemeanor aspect of this. I mean, there's no question these records were falsified, right? Okay. And knowingly, the question is whether you might have a holdout juror who doesn't want to say they were done for the purpose of covering up another crime, namely, you know, conspiracy to interfere in the election. So that becomes the, I think, the issue. It would be, you know, it's very unusual to have a hung jury.

But, you know, of course, if someone got to one of the jurors, if someone secretly went on the jury with his sole purpose of siding with him. But there's nothing, you know, for the reporters who have been in the courtroom, no one has commented. I'm not supposed to describe the jurors, but no one has commented like all the jurors are, you know, staring at this witness, but one of them is asleep or one of them is rolling their eyes. Like, I'm not getting any indication from people inside the room that there is a plant or someone who's not actually doing their judge. job on the jury. So like, my only question is, are they going to get a felony conviction or just misdemeanor convictions? Okay. And then tell us the difference. Again, I pretend to be a lawyer, but I clearly am not one. What's the difference in terms of the charge for misdemeanor versus the other? Well, generally speaking, misdemeanors don't come with much jail time. Sometimes they can for a

short period of time, but usually they don't. And I don't know if this particular statute would. But the difference is kind of like if you get a speeding ticket, that's a misdemeanor, whereas if you, you know, are convicted of drunk driving, that's a felony. You know, if he's convicted of any of these felonies, I think the judge would feel more warranted to impose even a short prison sentence or some kind of home confinement, whereas if it's a misdemeanor, I don't even see that being possible. And there's also the stigma to have he's because, you know, remember, he's already been convicted of contempt of court, right? even though he wasn't, and that's just, no one made a big deal about that because it's like a misdemeanor, right? No one, no one cares. It's the felonies that carry the big weight. And, I mean, let's be honest. Donald Trump has had to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars. He's had to pay out money to E. Jean Carroll for defaming her. He's had to pay out money for

being caught up in the fraud of his real estate misgivings in New York City. We know that Donald Trump is a criminal. What if anything does a verdict a guilty verdict here, due to change the outlook of where he sits right now in the polls at a 50-50-percent toss-up to be president of the United States. Where does this weigh on the greater scale of Trumpism versus America? I think to weigh that on the greater scale, it's sort of one piece of the puzzle and it should be a small piece. It shouldn't be the missing piece. It should be like one of the easy corner pieces of the puzzle.

And dead center in the puzzle should be the, you know, the insurrection, the judgment for sexual assault should be all the lying, should be, you know, the original Muslim ban, should be everything he's ever done while he was in office. I mean, this guy should not have won in 2016. And of course he is still the leader of the Republican Party. You know, the idea that he was going to learn his lesson is as naive as when Susan Kaan said that. You know, this guy has spent his. his whole life being entirely self-centered. He is, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but he seems to either like, or a doctor, lack an amygdala, or have no shame or have absolutely no empathy for anyone at all but himself.

He, you know, he is the most aggrieved. I think he actually believes that he's entitled to all the power in the world. And he would crush out anyone like an aunt just to, you know, grandize himself. And I don't know why people find that attractive, why people. why people, century after century, you know, throw their support around medlamaniac, you know, sexist, racist dictators of all stripes. But here we are. You know, you say that.

And it's just like, this should be a cakewalk, this election, right? It should be an absolute no-brainer for anyone with a functioning brain. Anyone that has had eyes and ears over the last nine years since Donald Trump came down that fucking escalator. Like, it should be a no-brainer. And yet, here we are on the edge of our seats with a toss-up election. And I just wonder, like, when you look at where Biden is in the polls and you know how I feel about polls this early out and how I feel about polls in general, but I cover them, you know,

nonetheless, he's not doing well, Joe Biden. And there is every signal, every flag that is saying that people who put up in the primary a protest vote or, you know, they voted for no one as they did in Michigan and in Maine. What do you make of what this administration's finger on the pulse is of where the country sits at this moment? So, you know, because I don't work inside the administration. No, I mean, visit the White House once for a party and once for a meeting a while, a long time ago.

I don't know the answer to that, but if it were me, I would be concerned. And I'm concerned just as an ordinary citizen who maybe has a larger platform than most people in that, you know, there are these wedge issues. And there is the reality that a lot of people should be concerned with what their government is doing. Not everything is perfect. Some things can be really atrocious. But I wish we would move away from the lesser of two evils language. Because I think when you say that, people say, I don't want to vote for evil. I just won't vote.

I think what we're trying to say is who do we want to have the levers of power? And if you don't like how someone's using the levers, you do not give those levers to a, you know, magnolomaniag guy who's itching to drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza. Don't give them the levers, period. Now, you know, and I just, I think that we have to think about it as not evil. Do I like this person? Do I like what they're doing? I'm just going to step away protest vote.

We are talking about giving the levers of power the most strongest power on the entire planet to somebody. And that's the choice. And either you say Biden can keep them. And when he has them, I am going to keep trying to move the government in a direction I want it to. But the idea of, well, everybody is the same continues to get us into worse and worse and worse situation. So I think it's on all of us to reframe the discussion. that way. It's about who has the levers of power? Why in the world would you do anything at all not to stop, prevent Donald Trump and his party from gaining control? I get why people are

disappointed, but I also know what lies ahead for the world if he gets in control again. I would be remiss if I did not ask you about Alito before we head out and Alito's wife. And, you know, the wives, the real housewives of the Supreme Court, who apparently can do whatever the hell they want, you know, because they're the ones doing the decorating and the, and the phone calls and what have you. What, if anything, do you make of the flag story, the fact that we know that Alito is a, I believe, that he is a white supremacist like Christo-fascist and the flag says it all. What do you make of these stories that have come out? Yeah, I mean, one thing I would say is even though they wear robes, the Supreme Court are not clergy. And I think we've spent too long

treating them like they are super special in part because they've given themselves a final say on a lot of topics. And they did that in Marbury v. Madison. And I know I'm not going to undo the whole idea of judicial review. But I would just put it out what that way. Secondly, it's just this flaggate thing. He's got to recuse. And if he doesn't recuse from any case involving Donald Trump related to the insurrection and or related to his immunity, etc. If he doesn't recuse and Thomas don't recuse, and Thomas don't recuse.

the Senate should be immediately holding hearings. And the House should just begin impeachment. And even if it won't be successful, this is why the Republicans are so much better at messaging. To get people to understand what's going on, you've got to be in the news. And the word news has the word new in it. And you don't have to be like literate in Latin, which I'm not to know that if it's not new, it's not news. And so you have to keep this in the news by having events that can be covered. If you have hearings, someone will cover the hearing.

If you have impeachment articles written up, someone has to cover that. And you need this to stay in the news. Having two flags that support the insurrection is, you know, an impeachable offense as far as I'm concerned. But at the very least, he needs to be recused. And let me just say this one thing. On Twitter, when I was putting something up about this yesterday, someone responded, and I thought it was a really clever response. Some guy on Twitter says, what about the Pledge of Allegiance?

And so, you know, obviously what he was getting at there was, if I'm a Democrat, you know, why are Dems always, you know, he thinks opposed to people having to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school? So I read, I quote tweeted him saying, oh my goodness, Charlie, are you saying that the Alitos are saying the Pledge of Allegiance backwards? I thought that was pretty funny. I mean, come on. Say, I'm glad you laughed.

But like, what is this? I mean, I just think Democrats should be trolling them. I think every Democrat elected should be walking around and taking a photo of a flag they see in their town or something. somewhere at the Capitol and saying, oh, look at this flag. One of these flags is not like the other. And just put it right next to the Alito's flag. And it should be relentless. You know, this should be the same thing as trolling Christy Noam. You know, don't let it go. I just hate when Democrats let shit go. Yeah, agreed. Oh, thank you, my friend, Jennifer Taub, from making the time for the new

abnormal and running through all of the legal haze that is our life these days. I really appreciate you. Thanks for inviting me. I hope I can come back one day. Well, it's a week of the year, so Fox News and the rest of MAGA World have another bad shit conspiracy theory to amplify. Here to explain is DailyBees Senior Media reporter Justin Barragona. Justin, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Okay. So before we get into how Fox News and the conservative Echo Sphere pushed out this insane story, can you start by explaining what this particular insane story is? I guess we could try to do like the quick elevator pitch on this. Yeah.

So in the Trump classified document case, there's a couple of motions that were unsealed that was actually, you know, they had been filed months ago. He's part of Trump's defense team is trying to find a way to get this dismissed with digging through all the documents. You know, you had one sort of MAGA influencer January 6th denial that saw that there's a policy statement as included in the search warrant that outlines when an FBI agent can use deadly. forced during a search and seizure of somebody's property or any type of action of this type. And then that quickly descended within hours into, well, Biden authorized an assassination plot on Trump during the Marilago raid in 2022. And somehow, you know, Trump survived. But beware because this is what he's going to do.

He's going to use the FBI to kill Trump. And then Trump used that as a campaign fundraising email. next thing, you know, it just tumbles into a 24-hour news cycle of outrage. And then now we've learned that, oh, wait a minute, you know, that languages was also included in the Biden search warrant for the classified documents in Delaware. So I guess going by this logic, Biden put out a hit on himself. Insane. So for our listeners who may be blessedly unaware of who Julie Kelly is, and I apologize

to them for ending their state of grace, can you tell us because she is, I think you referenced her before. She is the one who really got the ball rolling on this one, isn't she? Yeah. So, most of the stories that were done initially about the unsealing of the motions showed that, you know, wait a minute, there might be actually a little bit more, you know, obstruction on Trump's part to try to hide on some of these documents. That was a more interesting story. But then she who's got, you know, she's got quite a bit of a big following because, you know, she became, you know, she was actually one of the first big name January 6th deniers, you know. saying that this was a FBI false flag. She keeps pounding away at it. She's probably one of the

first ones is start using the term of like J6 hostages. We want to go into like who she really is. She's basically the one that kind of helped to try to form the January 6th counter narrative. You know, and then she's now become sort of like a major voice in that sphere. So a lot of people aren't going to know about her, but you know, the people that do know about her are going to get instantly whipped up and is going to like blast through that sort of magosphere for lack of a different term. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, she noticed it was like, oh my God, you know, they set up, you know, this is mind blowing. They authorized the deadly force against Trump. And then nice to you know the Charlie Kirk's of the world, Sean Davis, Laura Lumer, they're all jumping on it.

And of course, you know, your audience may not even know, you know, all of those people either, which they would be blessed. Yes, absolutely. So it starts spreading through the conservative media ecosystem, ecosphere, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green gets out there talking about it. And it gets to the point where the FBI, which it usually doesn't do, issues a statement. And the FBI statement is basically saying, look, this is boilerplate language. This is standard protocol. It doesn't authorize the use of deadly force as much as it limits it. it says, hey, this is the only circumstance under which you are authorized to use deadly force in the process of what you're doing here. And again, this is boilerplate language that goes out everywhere.

But let's talk about how Fox News initially handed this story. And I know that they're kind of backing off from it now. But I want to talk about how they initially handled this story. And I want to start with special report host, Brett Bear, because he's supposedly on the quote unquote journalism side of Fox, as opposed to the opinion side. So surely he explained to his view is that this was a non-story, right? Right, Justin? Right? Not exactly. I want to give him a slight benefit of doubt here.

Okay. You're a better person than I am, Justin. But when he went on air is when Fox News Digital had first reported it. So what we have to actually point out here is that Trump came out of his courthouse from the, you know, the hush money trial late afternoon. And then he goes at true social and then, you know, blasts this out there that Biden tried to assassinate him. So Fox News reporter, Brooke Singman, she's over on Fox, she may be Trump's favorite reporter there. Like she's a Trump whisper. She constantly gets him to give her this scoop from Trump side.

So she posts a headline that's blaring that, oh my God, Biden administration authorized used to deadly force against Trump in Marilago. So that's Fox News's story. That's their main story that just goes up right as like Brett Behr's on air. So he's kind of following the lead there. Now, of course, you know, on the other side, you say, you know, shouldn't he maybe urge some caution here, right? No, instead, he's got another correspondent on with him. And I just do want to quote him here when he's talking to correspondent Kevin Cork. He goes, there may be some people, Kevin, who say that this is just a policy statement of standard

operating procedures put inside this operations order for this specific grade. Obviously, it's not standard operating procedure when you're doing it, going into the House of the former president who happens to be protected by Secret Service. So he's painting a picture here, right? They were getting ready to like go guns ablazing, have a standoff with the Secret Service, God willing, that this didn't actually result in violence. And then that's how that his show kind of tumbled from there. You know, he had a panel discussion and, you know, you have like one of the, you know, these very serious pundits on who goes, you know, it was very worrisome that they were loaded, prepared for the possibility of some sort of violent confrontation with the Secret Service. So he's setting the stage for the rest of that programming that night.

And that's where it goes, even though the FBI then gets the statement out pretty quickly after that, that we're already got the ball rolling. And, you know, like, Brett Baer's going down that path. Well, where do you think Jesse Waters and Sean Hannity are going to go? Right. I used to have a lot of respect for Brett Bear, and I think it's really sad what's happened to him and people like Brigham there. But you make a good point, and it makes me afraid to even ask how the opinion side

handled this story, people like Sean Hannity and Jesse Waters. But I guess part of my job is to have you tell me what I don't want to hear. Jesse Waters had Judge Jeanine Piro on with them. Of course. So I think we can already see where that's going to go, right? Jesse, you know, it's a hair on fire type of treatment of the story. And Piro, you know, follows suit. And he's got the outrage set up to 11.

And then he just goes, you know, I can't believe that he's unleashed armed agents, authorizing them to use deadly force. You know, they're like, there's absolutely no justification for this because, you know, Piro's using her legal expertise to point this out, right? And then she's thinking and she just decides, well, we're just going to go down and go, wait a man, you know, they didn't wear flack jackets or, you know, tactical gear. They were just, you know, these FBI agents at Marilago were just wearing polo shirts without any, like, badges on. So, you know, without all this identifying stuff on here, it seemed like they wanted to engage in deadly

physical force. And then Jesse Waters goes, yep, I think they were looking for a little action, you know. So they were like, they were going in like guns of the Navarone and they were just going to start shooting it up. And thank God, you know, Trump wasn't in, you know, Sites way over there. And that's where it went from there. You know, Hannity, you know, the FBI statement was out by this point, right? You know, he's like, dare say boilerplate, but whatever. I think Garland was prepping for a possible shootout, you know.

And he's just using all of his like hyperbole, every kind of adjective he could attach to, you know, his descriptions of Biden and then Mary Garland, you know, attorney general that, you know, is obviously. behind this as well. Joe Biden's weaponized DOJ, Biden's politicized attorney general, they are authorizing this. But they weren't even the worst, to be honest. The thing is the following morning, early morning, they were still going with this. And Maria Bradaromo, just to clarify, this was Tuesday night, right? This was Tuesday night. This is like the day of this coming out. Okay. And then this continues into Wednesday morning. Yeah, that is correct. And then Wednesday

morning. The early morning shows on both Fox News and sister network Fox business, which is like the AAA affiliate of Fox News. So they're still going strong with this story, even though like, you know, it should have been tamped down with just an FBI statement and the fact that, you know, more serious credible journalists are going, hey, you guys really going with this, you know, it's just this is what they put in with everything, but they didn't care, right? I just want to back up. One thing that's not really even being pointed out during these outrage, on Fox is the fact that Trump wasn't there. Right.

Trump does not add to Marilaga raid. And they specifically timed it so he wouldn't be there. That is correct. And they gave the Secret Service heads up on when they would be showing up. I mean, this was all in coordination. The fact that Trump even ran with this when he knew that he wasn't there. I mean, and that used to be the other outrage is how dare they do this with him not there. Right. Right.

So now it's like, oh, my God, they were actually going to kill him, but he wasn't there. So, but yeah, Bart Romo spent like three hour. She has a three hour Fox business early morning program every weekday. And she spent the entire three hours just kind of going like and asking each of her guests, man, could you believe this? Like, does that mean that Biden was authorizing them and giving them the okay to kill Donald Trump? And she said this multiple times throughout the show, just going, you know, and just kind of embracing. Because you mentioned Marjorie Taylor Green at that. point Marjorie Taylor Green had gone out there and said they were definitely trying to assassinate

Donald Trump. And she's kind of fully embracing that without using the word to assassinate, right? She's just going, you know, is Biden authorizing deadly force against his political opponent? Is he telling the FBI it'd be okay to kill him, you know? But after that, I mean, Stuart Varney, who's like the follow up, who's not nearly as Trumpian anymore. Yeah. And anywhere near on the wavelength of Barteromo, he was more using. this story to just ask other GOP officials or lawmakers that came on to show what they think, but still using that whole old headline that Fox had had, which was, you know, Biden had authorized the use of deadly force. You know, Fox and Friends, they had Brooks Sigmund on to talk about her

report, you know, and she was still describing it as shocking. They had others on, you know, like those shows, but by mid-morning, it just stopped completely. lately. Fox News just stopped covering it entirely. And I think it's because they realized they were waving over their skis on this initially. And they needed to not just tamp the brakes, but, you know, put them on fully. You know, because Fox's Trump propaganda, you don't want to look foolish at the same time. And at this point, the news anchors don't want to look foolish by Wednesday morning. And so they just stopped. The interesting thing here is that hours later, Fox News's White House correspondent, Jackie Heinrich, she's the one that actually has the scoop.

You know, she's the first one to report that, yes, the search board for Biden's residences in Delaware had the same language attached to this. So I guess like pretty much like right away, like everyone just thinking the same thing. He's like, oh, so like using this train of logic that we've gotten from Trump world, Biden put out the hit on himself. Right. And that's where we're at. And the thing is the FBI has confirmed Heinrich's report. They put out a statement that has confirmed this now as of Thursday morning. They said, yes, yes.

That's, you know, it's the same standard policy procedure language that we add to every search warrant that limits the use of deadly force. But Fox News has not, you know, outside of adding an updated line to Brooke Singman's Fox News Digital story. that came out on Tuesday that shows Jackie Heinrich's report about the Biden search warrant. They haven't mentioned this on air at all. It's just limited to Jackie Heinrich's tweets. Oh, so all of that is coming from tweets. It's not coming from on air reporting. It is not coming from on air report. That's amazing. She tweeted it out just so that it's out there, you know? Wow.

But, you know, it's not being reported on air. She's not delivering a report on air. Or her colleague, David Spunt, who apparently got the state. from the FBI on this. He hasn't reported it on the year. As of mid-Thursday afternoon, it has not been reported. So, you know, it may be reported later. I've asked Fox News, you know, for comment on this, but I haven't heard back yet. Wow.

So we'll see. You know, but I think the better thing, like, on their end, there doesn't be like, let's just ignore it because we don't want to have to like bring up that, one, that Trump's full of shit. And two, you know, own up to our own kind of over-the-top outraged. coverage of this that didn't hold up to scrutiny. It won't be the first time that they've breathlessly reported a quote-unquote story and then when it turned out not to be the case, they just went quiet. It's just sort of standard operating procedure, it feels like.

Sort of like that deadly force. Exactly. Exactly. It's just it's boilerplate. That's how you do it. Again, it's not like you need any more evidence of just how not a news organization that place has become. I will not give Brett Bear the benefit of the doubt on this. And Brett Bear is a guy, I think I said, I used to have a lot of respect for. As you said, there used to be a thing where you held off on reporting something until you had all the facts. And it's not just Fox News, but that is really just out the window at this point, it feels like. I mean, that's true. You know, a lot of times it was just to get it up. I mean, the thing is just, this was just going

off of what Trump said, right? Now, the thing is, waiting for the FBI or DOJ, to respond, I will say this. They actually rarely do respond. Yeah, for sure. Again, I'm trying to give like benefit of doubt here too. You know, like you go with some breathless reporting. You can't sit there and wait for the FBI, DOJ, to respond because, you know, typically they won't. But I will say that the FBI, though, would typically also say, no, we decline to comment.

And he can say, we decline. But also, like, you have people who work at Fox News, who are former, I would imagine, Justice Department officials. there's probably former FBI agents around there. Like people who they easily could have asked who could say, oh, yeah, that's just standard boilerplate language. And to me, this was they made a choice not to do that. Everything they did for that first, you know, 12 or 18 hours, whatever it is before they went silent, that was a conscious choice.

You know, so that's why I just, I refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt. But that's just me. Justin, thank you so much for being here and walking us through this bat shittery from this week. I'm sure that we'll all stop next week and everything will be calm and rational. Oh, yeah. We won't have any type of stories that are of this led typing. No, not at all. Justin, thanks a lot, man.

All right, thank you. Andy Levy. Hey, Danielle. Oh, boy. That's right. I'm making an appeal to heaven. It's a rebellion of the workplace. I'm rebelling.

I have the right of rebellion. For right now until the authoritarian, aka Jesse, steps in. I'm now being told off air that I do not have the right to rebellion. Yeah, you don't. The shock collars of the bail. Okay. Let me do that again. Danielle Moody. Wonderful. Andy, how are you closing out this week as we head into summer officially, well, not officially until the solstice, but you know what I mean? With your fuck that guy. Carry us out. This story's unbelievable. I know we say that a lot, but it really, like, this is just, my God, as reported by LGBTQ Nation.com, in a recent mailer to Texas Republicans,

people were told, I'm going to quote from this mailer, we see you haven't voted yet. Your voting record is public. Your neighbors are watching and will know if you miss this critical runoff election. We will notify President Trump if you don't vote. You can't afford to have that on your record. This was sent by a group called the America First Conservatives Election Department. fellas workshop the name. I mean, come on. It was sent to voters ahead of the, there's a big primary in Texas on May 28th,

a big primary in the sense that obviously Trump is going to win it, but they want people out to vote. And the mailer goes out to say, we will contact you after the election to make sure you voted. Please don't make us report you to President Trump. We are sending an official list of Republicans who failed to vote in the upcoming runoff to President Trump. Public records show that you have not voted. President Trump will be, in all caps, very disappointed. Every day, it's just the drift to fascism gets greater and greater and closer and closer to just full-on fash.

And, I mean, we're now at the point where Republicans are threatening to out people who don't vote for Donald Trump. I am very curious to know if this is legal because it seems to me to cross the line into voter intimidation. I guess we'll see if it gets challenged or, you know, if anybody goes after the group behind this. But it is very clearly an attempt at voter intimidation. And it's also just, it's such, we're going to tell daddy on you language. And it's just, it's so sad and so pathetic. And that really is one of like sort of the core principles of fascism, though, is if you don't do the right thing we're going to tell daddy on you. And that's what we're seeing here.

And it's just unreal that this continues to happen in this country. And so just fuck all these guys. I think that what is so absurd is the fact that people are willingly walking into the creation of a society that has you not trust your neighbors, that has you fear, like being told on, right? Like, so what is going to happen if Donald Trump finds out that you didn't vote for him? Well, right now, nothing. But when and if he becomes president of the United States, I don't know, maybe you'll get thrown into a gulag.

Who the fuck knows? Right? But like, the fact that this is happening, it's not a joke. Like, it is dangerous. Why do you have my phone number? Why am I on this list? Right? Like, why are you watching me?

I can't think of anything more un-American than what? what these people are doing while they are flying. By the way, again, flags that are not the American flag. Right. Fuck those guys. Excellent point. All right, Daniel, close us out as we approach the holiday weekend. Who's your fuck that guy?

Well, let's just stick on theme with Republicans, but I'm going to just zero in on the Arizona fake electors. And why is that? Because they're fake electors? No. We said fuck those guys to them a long time ago when they were charged. But what I find funny, ha ha, is the fact that these people now are unable to afford lawyers ahead of their scheduled appearances. So this is according to Newsweek, Brom Resnick of KPNX News in Phoenix on Tuesday shared a threat of post on Twitter discussing the arraignment of many of the defendants and says, update, form.

AZ GOP, executive director Greg Safstan, tells judge he can't afford lawyer, is declared indigent, and gets public defender. Email show that Safstan was in contact with fake electors architect Ken Chesbrough. It is just like amazing. It is amazing. It is amazing the lengths that these people went to to not only try and thwart our democracy. democracy by denying us to have a voice and a vote in the 2020 election. But they went to such great lengths that the boomerang is now coming back to hit them in the ass and that they can't afford their own attorney. So where is Donald Trump? You just talked about the fact that, you know,

he has his sycophants out there calling people up threatening them if they don't vote for him. well, if you're really this big boss, this crime mobster boss, this tough guy that Donald Trump says he is, then how come you're not covering all of these people that put their lives, their livelihood, their character on the fucking line for you? You know, and again, I just think that it speaks so much to who Donald Trump is, who these people are that like if you get caught up in Donald Trump schemes, you're asked out. That's it. Done. Finished. And he's not coming by to check on you because you're of no use. So I look at this and I laugh at these people because they fell for the rope-a-dope.

They fell for the lie. They fell for the grifter. Right. Remember when Donald Trump said to people in the crowd at a rally in 2020, oh, if you rough-up protesters, I'll pay for your bail? Donald Trump ain't paying for shit. He don't even want to pay for himself. These people, I'm embarrassed for you.

I hope that public defender does you. well. So fuck those guys. Yes to all of that. But then I just keep thinking to myself, how can this guy who was the former executive director of the Arizona Republican Party not afford a lawyer? Like, that makes absolutely no sense to me. There's got to be a scheme going on here because that's what these guys are. They're schemers and they're liars and they're fraudsters. So there's got to be a scheme going on here because there is absolutely no way this guy can't afford a lawyer. And that goes for some of the others also who have claimed indigence. But the whole thing is just so weird.

And these people are such losers. And yeah, fuck all these guys. I agree with the dog. I know that, again, won't stop. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder.

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