The Daily Beast Podcast - This Is How Idiot Trump Is Being Played by China

Episode Date: September 27, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles take a closer look at Donald Trump’s encounter with Xi Jinping and what China may have learned from a president they see as unusually susceptible to flattery, especially when it comes to the delicate question of Taiwan. They also dissect Melania Trump’s new women’s network, the growing role of billionaires around the White House, and the extraordinary rise of Kimberly Guilfoyle from Fox News to ambassador to Greece, including the business and personal relationships now surrounding her diplomatic role. Then, the conversation turns to Trump’s escalating fight with the press and the uncertain future of CNN as its ownership changes hands, before Wolff and Coles weigh in on the memoirs of Bob Chapek and Ari Emanuel and what they reveal about a rapidly changing media and entertainment industry. #ad INCOGNI Deal: To get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan, go to https://incogni.com/beast 🛡️ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Do I have to do everything myself? You want to want! I'll give you a... Moblad. New season is now streaming on Paramount Plus. She is essentially issuing a kind of threat to Trump. Trump, who has no real position, no real ideology, no real background. He doesn't care. Let's just flatter each other.

They must understand, because it's obvious, that you can move Trump as a matter of language. You can get him to make a mistake very easily. With Donald Trump, of course, because, because he can barely, you know, has a vocabulary of 300 words. She is trying to suggest to Donald Trump a new language which would then be beneficial to the Chinese. Michael. Joanna. Here we are again.

Episode 170 of Inside Trump's head where we go to Trump's head where we go to Trump's head. where we go to try and explain what has turned out to be a government of one, correct? Correct. And you are, Michael Wolfe, you've written four books on Donald Trump, but essentially you spent the last 10 years inside his head. And I think it's fair to say he's inside yours. You know, what happens when he leaves? Well, don't let's worry about that right now.

Because, yes, that is not going to happen anytime soon. It's not going to happen. And as you've said, what will happen after he leaves the White House, assuming he does. And Steve Bannon was out yesterday saying he's definitely going for a third term. Okay. Steve Bannon is. And let's just say, Steve Bannon is one of the great, well, he's one of the great gas bags of all time.

Although I like Steve. And Steve is always smart. But what he is saying there is Trump will go for a third term in a metaphorical sense. Okay, so he's going to set up his alternate administration at Mar-a-Lago. Yes, he will leave the White House, leave it with billions of dollars that he has extorted from corporate America, set up a, a counter White House in Marilago, which he will love, because this is great for him, because he doesn't actually then have to do the work of being the president of the United States. And he just gets to draw attention from whoever becomes the president of the United States, therefore becoming clearly a rival or often it might seem a replacement president. Okay, good.

Well, we can get into more of that this morning. a lot to get to. I'm Joanna Coles of The Daily Beast and Michael and I will be appearing live at the Terrogram Ballroom in downtown LA on October the 20th. So please come and join us if you're in the vicinity and you can go to beast.combe slash ITH live. That's beast.combe slash ITH live to buy your tickets or go to ticket master. But we would love to see you. come and meet us. And I think there's a meet and greet available. And we're looking forward to getting into it.

And Michael will promise you that he is even wilder when he's not within the confines of a podcast. I would just say more precise. You are more precise. Yes. You are more precise. Okay. Well, we have a lot to be precise about today.

We've got She's Visit, which we need to unpack. We've got Melania's launching of a female network and my efforts to join, which have come to naught, we've got a fascinating story about the privatisation of American diplomacy in the form of none other than our favourite character. I think it's fair to say. She's certainly in our top ten, Michael.

Kimberly Gilfoyle, the former Fox News anchor who was once incredibly married to Gavin Newsome. I mean, what a story. And now she's found a very... close Greek male friend who is helping her as she develops business ties in Greece and in that part of Europe where we have, well, oddly, we have almost no ambassadors other than Kimberly Guilfoyle, who viewers and listeners will remember was also the fiancé of Donald Trump Jr. And then, of course, Donald Trump Jr. recently got married to Bettina Anderson, a daughter of a former financial advisor to Jeffrey Epstein and their wedding party was paid for by a Russian oligarch. Donald Trump has said they have to pay him back, but who knows if they will? And let me just interject that Kimberly Giltfoil and Donald Trump Jr. bought a $10 million

house in Palm Beach, which precipitated a raging argument between father and son, hardly an argument, really. father yelling at son, where did you get this money? Where did this money come from? Can you remember what Roger Ailes ever told you about Kimberly Gilfoyle? Oh, of course. Not only did we speak about Kimberly Gilfoyle rather often, but Kimberly Guilfoyle was on the plane, Sean Hannity's plane, that I took down to Roger Ailes' funeral. And I think I've pointed out before that Kimberly Guilfoyle was without, and this is my wife spotted this. I did not, but my wife did, without a particular article of clothing. I think we described it as going basic instinct.

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Well, we will come on to that Wall Street Journal piece later because it's a fascinating deep dive into what Kimberly has been up to. And indeed, as Donald Trump pointed out, the very good-looking young man that is helping her. And many people have thought was her chief of staff. And in fact, of course... We'll come to this. We'll come to this.

Yes, he's the lobbyist. All right, all right. We'll come to it. All right, Michael, she's visit. Let's discuss. You know, I mean, it's kind of fascinating that Donald Trump loves these visits. He loves putting on the rits for whatever foreign leader. It's, I think it's probably one of the high points of what he does as president.

But it's completely removed from what he's supposed to achieve as president. In other words, you do these summits. These summits are and the, this is all a cover for what goes on in, in, that what we don't see. So here we see this, we see the dinners and we see the celebratory aspects of this. We see the pageantry. And that's a cover for what's happening behind the scenes. What's happening behind the scenes here in Donald Trump's world is nothing at all. I mean, it is, in other words, the less point there is, the more he loves it.

So it doesn't, you know, what he gets out of this is just the show. There will be no advance in our relationship with China, no true understandings, no, no lessening of tensions, or no clarifying of the issues between us. None of that will happen here, at least on our side. I think on China side, on Xi's side, they will have, this is probably all that they are doing. The pageantry is irrelevant to them. What they are doing is triangulating Donald Trump. And, you know, I've had this described to me by White House people of what happens when he goes into these meetings.

Now, the background of these kinds of meetings is that it's really hard work. You know, you get briefing books. You have all of the various constituents in the government who have issues that they want on the table are presented. It's a difficult moment for any president because you, I mean, you're the guy and you got to know what you're talking about. If you don't know what you're talking about, you're giving away the store. So, I mean, it's kind of like what can you compare? I mean, it's sort of like merger negotiations between big companies. And if you're the CEO, you have to represent the interests of your shareholders.

And it's also you're representing your own interest. And the return is going to be in dollars and cents. Well, the return here is not in dollars and cents, but it's certainly, well, sometimes it is in the trade relationships between nations. But it's also a matter, obviously, of security. It's a matter of what the global, the complications of global diplomacy cause and effect. I mean, this is, the world changes. The world turns on these kinds of meetings, not with Trump. Trump goes into these meetings.

He can't, he refuses to look at the briefing books, refuses to have extensive conversations about about the issues at hand doesn't care, I suppose, doesn't know what he's talking about. It's all I can handle it. I'm good. He is always saying, I'm really good with this.

And then he goes into these meetings. And all it is is flattery, him flattering the other side. And the other side, I think very clearly taking an understanding what they can get by this. And I'm trying to circumvent using the word buffoon. But I think that's what they see him as.

I think they're like, oh, my God. Right. Oh, my God. So who would traditionally brief Trump? Is this something Marco Rubio would say, hey, listen, there are a couple of points as you need going into sheet. don't say this. I mean, there's more than a couple of pointers. There's there's weeks of preparation that are necessary here. There are yes, Marco Rubio, but then the State Department would bring

an enormous amount of other resources to bear on on this. But if Trump is an information phobe, as you say, then how do they how do they slim it down? How do they whittle it down to the one or two points and I'm assuming it's really about trade with Xi and maybe about Taiwan. How do they slim that down so he's got two things in his head when he goes in? Oh, that's what they do instead. But that's, you know, they give him, they give him two points. You got to do this and this. And even that usually doesn't register with him. I mean, this is something, I don't think, I don't even know how people, you can get people to. to appreciate this? How do you get people to appreciate that the presidency is, has a, the

workload of the presidency is extensive. And if you don't do it, if you adamantly don't do the work, can't do the work, what happens? What's the effect? That's really hard in, that's really hard to make clear to, to voters and to the American, I mean, first, it's, it's, It's incredible. So he doesn't do the work. He can't do the work. The President of the United States does not know what he's talking about in these situations. How do you begin to explain that to people?

And within the White House itself, they have had the people within the White House have to explain it to themselves. What do we do here? But that becomes for them a kind of, well, it's. It's Donald Trump. You know, he's been elected twice. He must know what he's doing. And I think even parts of the country, perhaps a large part of the country, falls back on that

kind of thinking, when the reality is nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And years from now, or not even years from now, I think we will start to see the effects of this. Why did this happen? How did this possibly happen? And again, the background here, remember, he became the president in 2016. Part of his, a primary part of his platform was the existential battle between the United States and China. And he was the only one recognizing that.

The only one who wasn't bending to the prospects of what we could gain. from China's great, great wealth. And what has happened in the 10 years since then is that China has just become stronger and stronger and more and more dominant. And if in this existential competition with the U.S., it has moved into the, I mean, And it's, I think virtually everyone regards this as not if, but when they supersede the U.S. as the central world power. This episode is brought to you by Animals. How far would you go when someone threatens everyone you love?

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Thucydides trap where the challenger power basically provokes the traditional power into a war. And Hugh and I discussed this on the Daily Beast podcast yesterday, but what I wanted to ask you was, do you think Donald Trump understood what she was saying? Do you think he has any idea what the Thucydides trap is? Do you think he's ever heard of this Greek general slash historian? Well, I'm not sure that that's relevant anyway.

I think from, I mean, the important thing to understand is what is she saying here? And she is is essentially issuing a kind of threat to Trump. And it's a, it's a warning. I mean, it's a warning basically about Taiwan. That's the only issue here. I mean, it is, it has always been the central Chinese issue with the, with the, with the, U.S. And, you know, Trump, for all his bellicosity, really likes to get along with these guys. So that's what he's saying. We can get along. We can get along if you somehow, if you don't press

the Taiwan issue. And again, that interesting thing about Trump who has no real position, no real ideology, no real background. He doesn't care. Let's just flatter each other. In an ideal world, that is what happens with Donald Trump. So if you're the president of Taiwan and you wake up on Friday after the state visit where she has said to Trump, I want you to adhere to the correct position of opposing Taiwan independence. What is happening there? Is this China getting closer and closer to a potential invasion of Taiwan? We know that there are no American aircraft carriers in the South China seas, that the mismanagement by the Pentagon of keeping... Just cut to this, yes. I mean, is she feeling around about how stupid Trump is, how

unconcerned Trump is, how unserious Trump is, and what is their advantage there. And that's going to be an estimation that they will make in which she is going to go back to China or as I'm sure it's already begun. And they make essentially, essentially they are profiling Donald Trump. And they're going to have, they will also have a view

about what, where's his, is there a level of dementia here? Is there a level? What's the age factor? How has that affected Trump? What is, does he, and ultimately, does he really care about Taiwan? So, and then this other thing is that they're pushing this is, they must understand, because it's, it's obvious, that you can move Trump as a matter of language, you can get him to make a mistake very easily. I mean, the entire, the entire Taiwan relationship with Taiwan and with China is all about language, about this, these kind of precise words that we use, and that is, that defines the situation. And if you, and if you veer from those words, then the situation becomes less,

defined to someone out to and we don't know whose benefit that would either to China's benefit or to our benefit but it's that is all about those words use now with Donald Trump of course because he can barely you know has a vocabulary of of 300 words it it is she is trying to suggest to Donald Trump a new language which would then be beneficial to the Chinese. So what is the ideal here for Xi in terms of Taiwan? Because presumably they would rather have Taiwan return voluntarily to the Chinese fold, something which seems highly unlikely.

But I'm sure looking at Russia, thinking it could go into Ukraine and tie that up in what four or five days is what Putin thought they were going to be able to do four and a half years later, there's still nowhere near a resolution with Ukraine, and in fact, Moscow got bombed heavily this week. When you talk about language, is there some way that she is trying to appropriate Taiwan without actually having to involve the military? Well, in an ideal world, sure. But I don't really even think that this is sort of all about about, standing at this point. They want to, the stronger, the stronger their position is, is with regard to Taiwan, and we're not even talking about invading or taking over Taiwan. We're just,

we're just, we're talking about their relationship to the U.S.'s relationship to Taiwan. If the U.S. looks less firm in its defense of Taiwan, that redounds to the advantage of China and to Xi. So in a way, we're not talking about anything here. Everything stays the same. But it is a matter of how this is represented, how this looks. How, what advantage China can claim? And they will.

So if you're Xi and you're going back to talk to your team today, which I'm sure they're spending a weekend debriefing on the trip, what are you saying about Taiwan, do you think? Trump doesn't care. Trump's not going to give us any trouble. They've already removed the last remaining aircraft carrier. They've got no munitions left. Yeah. Well, I mean, on one hand, it's, yes, what if we attacked Taiwan? What would the Americans do?

But that's a war game scenario. I mean, that's a scenario. It's going to be more like what advantage can we get right now. And that's an advantage, which is really a perceptual advantage, really. And that's what Trump, that's what they can get out of Trump because he doesn't understand the nuances. So China is seeing this is all about nuances and Trump is a man who, you know, wouldn't know a nuance if it's... If he was married to one, if he was married to one, I thought that the Chinese, to your point about them having, you know, really paid attention to Donald Trump, that they probably have been listening to your analysis of Donald Trump and Melania Trump's relationship.

And when you saw the two couples walking up the National Archive where Donald Trump took Xi Jinping into the archives, you saw the Chinese leader and his wife holding hands. And I will say the Chinese leader doesn't look that much more firm than Donald Trump. He also looked like he was clutching onto his wife's hand to help him both up the steps of the National Archive and down the stairs of the plane when he arrived. but they were clearly symbolizing that they were together as a couple, whereas Melania was walking as far to the red carpet as she possibly could to the edge of it. And at one point, right at the beginning of the visit, Trump actually sort of veered off, I think, to his left and she was pushed off the red carpet. But when they walked up the stairs as two couples, Melania and very clearly kept a distance between her and Donald Trump. didn't hold his sound. There's a nice piece in the Times today by Roger Rosenblatt, a long-time journalist.

I mean, for my entire career, who's now firmly, deeply into his 80s. And it's called The Piece of Title, I Want to Hold Your Hand. And it's about him the joys of still holding his wife's hand, but acknowledging that one of the reasons that they hold each other's hands in public, so if, so not to fall down. I will remember my parents occasionally did that. My mum called me one day and said she'd fallen over in the garden. My father had gone to help her up, given her his hand, and she'd promptly pulled him over by accident.

They were both like on the grass unable to get up. Anyway, so I'm just saying to Roger Rosenblatt, you want to be careful there because you don't want to go down if someone's holding your hand. I do find it odd the way world leaders hold hands with their spouse. I do think it's peculiar actually. It's such a strange, almost childish gesture. And you think you're supposed to be among the most powerful people in the world and you need to hold someone's hand. It's odd.

It's odd. But nevertheless, Melania doesn't want to hold her husband's hand. And Natalie Hart was nowhere to be seen, by the way, this week. I didn't see her at the state. though I did briefly mistake her for Ivanka, who looked identical. Well, we can be rest assured she was there. Somewhere in the background, hovering in the background. She is always there.

She is always there. There's not a moment. There's not a circumstance. She is baked in. Well, I'm sure she's printed him out all sorts of pictures of him looking statesman-like at the big dinner. What did you think of the guest? list of the endless tech CEOs who now seem to swarm Trump at these events? You know, have they no shame? I mean, it's almost incomprehensible. We are so rich that,

I mean, it's Putin-like. So all of those, all of those Russian oligarchs got fathomlessly rich by, rich beyond, beyond all imagination. And yes, we're in the position that they had to suck up to Vladimir Putin. And so I guess it's the same as these guys, fathomlessly rich. And yet they know that it all, at least for the moment, is contingent on Donald Trump. Right. Unless they like him, that is not possible. Well, they may like each other and they may like to hang out with each other at the White House, right?

this is all about your cohort. Or they may be paying attention to each other. They may hate each other, but if one goes, then the others have to go. They don't want to be left out. But why? I mean, you have all of this money and all of this power. Why are you still beholden to something? Because if Donald Trump believes the last person he says, and if Sam Altman

whispers in his ear, listen, open AI should be doing government. government deals, not anthropic. Maybe that gives open AI an advantage. You know, I'm sure it does. I mean, a momentary advantage until someone else speaks in his ear or as long as he remembers what you said to him. Still, nevertheless, do these guys, Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Altman, do they really think that, that this is going to redound to their credit in the near-term future. I mean, Donald Trump leaves this veil of tears, either the White House veil of tears or the actual veil of tears fairly soon. Do these guys, or do they not care? Yeah, I answered my own question.

Of course, they don't care. Or is there some part of them that thinks, I cannot believe I'm sitting here? here with the president of the United States at the White House because I grew up in Jeff Bezos's case. I was an adopted boy. I grew up in Florida and here I am at the fanciest table in the world. I mean, they're no different to anybody else being excited to walk into the White House. I mean, you and I both say it never gets old walking into the White House. And for these guys, it's the same, right? Just because they're wealthy and they've got successful companies doesn't mean they're not excited to be there.

Well, they've been there many times before. So you would have, and they are being played. I mean, they're being played here as props. So why they, I mean, I don't see in the end what they get out of this. I mean, yes, maybe they get something out of this this week and they get their pictures in the paper. And these are all, and I mean, I think you can see. These are all people who have some serious, serious.

insecurity, serious personality defects, serious inability to see beyond their own billions at any point in time. And of course, these are the people who are, who, I mean, like Donald Trump, who we are dependent on for our safety and security and and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the well-being of our country, we're also dependent on these people, absolutely people who clearly we should not be dependent on. So I think this is a larger story of the creation of an oligarch whose interests are not our own. And that's the signal that they are sending. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some The future of money to others

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Well Malania was sitting next to Elon Musk And I'm a bit disappointed you haven't paid attention to my outfit this morning and noted that I was giving a nod to Melania's bow. I'm wearing a business jacket like Melania is favoured recently because I thought, you know what, I'm going to join Imperia. I'm going to join her female network about ownership and empowerment for women. I've spent a lot of time in that space. But sadly, I found it impossible to join. You're directed to Melania.com, her website, where the opening gambit is a Christmas ornament for $90. I went down to Imperia and it's simply a press release saying that she announced it, but there's

no way to join it. There's no way to connect with other people, which is what she promised. So I'm coming around to the fact you may have been right that it's all actually meaningless imperia. In fact, next week I will. Yes. There is no Imperia. There will be. be no imperia. I'm going to call the New York Stock Exchange next week and find out if they have some way of helping me join, because I feel I would like to become a member. And I have noticed what you're wearing. We match, actually. You might have noticed. We do match black and white, or you're wearing brown, right? You're wearing brown and I've got great pin stripes. No, I'm

wearing black and white. Oh, you are wearing black. Okay. So you look like a Supreme Court justice this morning. In a cardigan. In a cardigan, a black cardigan, looks very good. Good. So, yes, anyway, if you want a $90 Christmas ornament, Melania.com, the first lady is selling them. You can get a copy of her book. And we'll see, I can't wait for her television series, to see if Imperia features heavily as her network, non-network network network. If anybody else has managed to join, please let me know. And perhaps you can take me as your plus one. I'm just chuckling about the upcoming, the further upcoming Malania documentary series. It's going to be such fun. Paid for it by Jeff Bezos, who was obviously at this dinner. Of course. And I've still got my popcorn bucket from her documentary, which I keep, to put, well, what's in there?

actually nothing's in there a bit like Imperial nothing's in there all right we must come to the Wall Street Journal's story about Kimberly

Guilfoyle because it is magnificent it really is about this thing that we've talked about before the businessization the privatisation

of American diplomacy we know that over 100 ambassadorships are still empty and into that void have come

Jared Kushner Steve Wickoff and now we've got Kimberly Gilfoyle hustling as fast as she can in Greece, and clearly having a very good time. I mean, this entire Kimberly Gilfoyle story, which tracks much of the Trump administration.

But it also predates the Trump administration, which is also an interesting thing. But a character of such avarice, such uncomplicated avarice. I mean, we're going back to a 19th century British novel, Vanity Fair, Becky Sharp, the most famous character in literature without scruples, without morals, without second thoughts, without shame. Without conscience? Yes. Gimmy, gimme, gimme.

And this is the Kimberly Gilfoyle story. Without, there is no subtlety to it. And the interesting thing, of course, is that she. She begins her trajectory, her public trajectory, as the wife of Gavin Newsom. Mm-hmm. So we're going to have to come back to that because Gavin Newsom is obviously running for the Democratic nomination for president or will likely run for that. And I'm not sure how he will be able to explain being married to one of the most avaricious people in the Trump, in the Trump union. Now, let's understand this, one of the most avaricious people in a gallery of the most avaricious people who have ever walked the earth.

Well, you can also track her physical trajectory when she was married to Gavin Newton and when she was a lawyer in San Francisco. She had a very kind of natural West Coast look. And over the years, I mean, when they got divorced, she went to work for Fox News and, became bombshelled, I suppose you would describe it as. She was a dark Roger Ailes, dark-haired bombshell. Just let me interrupt because as I understand the trajectory, she first came, she got out of the marriage and then came to New York. This is before, quite somewhat before Fox Fox News.

And in fact, I knew people at New York Magazine where I used. to work, women at New York Magazine who became very friendly with her. And because she was, you know, New York Magazine is quite a, quite a New York liberalish place, which she was at that point. And then she got this job at Fox News. Roger Ailes hired her because, I mean, Roger had had two interests. He, two primary interests in terms of women, that they be, that he consider them hot and that they, and that they were lawyers. For some reason, this was. Well, like Megan Kelly. Hot lawyers was his, was his particular sexual interest.

And that's very specific. If there isn't already hot lawyers on only fans, there should be. There definitely should be. Or maybe that's something Kimberly could do when she finishes being an ambassador, assuming that the Democrats, if they win, don't keep her on. Right. And it was a Trump thing. You know, that, you know, during the campaign when Trump was during all of his trials

and his four criminal indictments, and then he had, he had, he would show his, he would show pictures of his lawyers. And, and he would say, you know, my lawyers may, I'm, you know, they're not the smartest, but they're the hottest. So I don't know. Maybe this is a, this is a, this is a taste that many men have. At any rate, Roger Ailes hired her at, at Fox News, and she instantly became a Fox person. I mean, I remember the people at New York Magazine were like, what happened? What happened to people call her KG? And no one quite knows. knew what happened to her, except that she saw where the wind was blowing.

She saw where the wind was blowing. She may have been ahead of her time in seeing where the wind was blowing. And then she left Fox under something of a cloud, right? She's, as far as I can tell, the only woman who has been seriously Me Too. Yes. So she was, she sent around, she was a dick-pick sent. or a dick-pick-forwarder or maybe, I don't know, whatever she was doing, she got in trouble for.

Also, she was accused of harassing her assistant, a male assistant, and got fired. We should also point out that she had her Anthony Scaramucci moment. And then, of course, she went on to Don Jr. Don Jr. And then she was bested by Bettina Anderson. She was engaged to Don Jr. And of course, who can forget her at the RNC in her, I want to say, red dress, yelling for all she was worth, the best is yet to come.

Ladies and gentlemen, leaders and fighters for freedom at to come. And then there was a moment in which she told her, she told, people that Trump, who was then the president, had tried to move on her. So father and son. Yes. Father, oh my goodness. This is in my books. So I think that this is in my second book.

So Kimberly claims that the president also found her attractive. She did. And the president was fairly vocal in the fact that he may have found her. attractive, but he didn't like her. He may not, he may have not liked her because he was rebuffed by her, if he was rebuffed by her. Okay, well, there's a fantastic description in the Wall Street Journal of Trump's saying, I have to get her out of here, which is why they made her ambassador. And in fact, when they announced it, Greek news outlets quickly dredged up critical remarks that she'd made of Greece.

And actually, I'm going to quote here, as a Fox News co-host during Europe's debt crisis in 2015, she said that Greeks needed to be trained like when a dog pees on the rug. And she says, it doesn't matter if you make great yogurt. I don't care. And President Trump told people he had offered Guilford, the ambassadorship for his son's sake, saying, I had to get her out of here,

A White House official obviously denies that the president said that. The subtext of this article in the journal is that she has been promoting the career of somebody who actually the journal was unable to actually describe the nature of this person's career. But she has pushed him into a significant negotiating role among in the effort. to get the countries, a set of European countries to decrease their reliance on Russian oil and to use US natural gas, I think. Christos Marifatzos, who appears to be ubiquitous wherever Kimberly goes, he goes. People assumed, according to the piece, that he was her chief of staff. In fact, he's a lobbyist for a Greek construction.

company that's managed to hustle its way into the new energy situation, given the problems with Russian oil. And as President Trump called out, I think, and then that company, they seem to imply, has a dubious set of bona fides when it comes to both oil and their position in this negotiation. Well, Christos himself has dubious bona fides at some point. I mean, he was born or lives in, was based in Maryland. Now, seems to be spending a lot of time in Greece with his new colleague, I guess is the right word. But at one point, he was, you know, distributing produce to restaurants.

So he's also got a somewhat checkered career. I think it's fair to say. He's emerged as a lobbyist. He's whipped up earnings for himself of at least half a million dollars. and is helping Kimberley negotiate. There's a great bit here where it says that Greek officials are very happy that their country, which has often been overlooked in Washington, now has someone who's got close proximity to the Trump family,

but they're also fearful of getting on her bad side, who wouldn't be. And in March, I'm going to quote here from the piece, in March at a dinner in Athens attended by Greek and US officials, Gilfoyle got into an argument with Greece's energy minister Stavros, Papastavru, in front of other guests. Referring to the impending collapse of the Romanian government, Guilfoyle told the group, we can do that to any country we want. We can do that here. And then the conversation obviously became heated with the Greek energy minister saying,

actually, the US couldn't replace the government of Greece. the government of Greece was actually elected by the people. She's obviously throwing her weight around. I don't think you can appreciate what a nightmare Kimberly Guilfoyle is. I mean, it's like those things. And part of the, a thematic part of the Trump administration is the inability to appreciate exactly how extreme, how bad, how how outside of all expectations, and imagination so much is.

So you can't appreciate it's impossible to appreciate how unprepared Trump is when he goes into absolutely significant meetings, meetings on which so much depends. He's completely unprepared. And it's impossible to defend to, it's impossible to understand how someone like, in this instance, Kimberly Gilfoyle, but we can go down the list of other people. his entire cabinet. In the Trump administration, how craven they are, how, how unacceptable in any kind of civilized company they would be. Well, there's also a very interesting paragraph in the piece that reminds us that when Kimberly was engaged to Donald Trump,

she immediately started setting about trying to set up businesses. And she pursued a line of business ventures, including hair care and fragrances that she called Floor de Maga. Yep, Floor de Maga. So if you want to smell like Maga, you could have bought her products. Champagne ventures with names such as 1776 Liberte and Liberty Dreams. And then a pet pharmaceutical service called Petriot Vet, Get it? Petriot vet.

Anyway, those trademarks have unsurprisingly since been discontinued. So you can, the lesson here is that you can have, if not anything, you can have really a lot if you absolutely have no scruples, no restraints, no shame, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you know, for. basic respectability at all. I guess. And there's one moment as well where Kimberly is back in D.C. And she's got Christos, Madafatsos, somewhat unfortunate name perhaps. And the president calls him out and says he's a very good looking guy. So he has a sense that this is an unusually close working relationship.

Let's just say that. I'm sure they would deny they were having an effect. But it's an unusually close working relationship is what the Wall Street Journal piece is hinting at here. Anyway, Brun don't walk to read it because it really is fun. And let's just again, Kimberly Guilfoyle is not going to go away because we have the Gavin Newsom chapter of this, which will make a return as he runs for president. Well, and it might put Gavin Newsom. I mean, can you imagine Gavin Newsom must have read this thing last night when it

when it dropped. I'm sure he got a heads up that it was coming. And he and Jennifer Newsom, his wife and the mother of his four children, must have been just sitting, you know, mouth agape reading this piece. But he might find himself, were he to be elected as the Democrat president, having to fire his ex-wife, having to remove her? Or do you think he would say, you know what, she's got such hustle, we need her, let's leave her there? Well, I think it could be also, from her point of view, I mean, she apparently left him because his career was not proceeding fast enough. And if she had stayed with him, she might be, have ended up as the first lady. It's so fascinating.

It's so fascinating. So she goes from Gavin Newsom over a couple of other people. And I think I remember telling you that I had run into her at a dinner party once in Connecticut, where she was with a guy. And I said, oh, what does your, what does your partner do? And she said, he is the best selling Porsche salesman on the northeast of America. When was this? This would have been, I guess, maybe eight years ago, 10 years ago. Fantastic.

Yeah. Great. Anyway, that was a moment. And, you know, she went from Newsom to Donald Trump, Jr., got bumped from Donald. Trump Jr. and then Newsom may ascend the Trumps altogether. Oh, yeah, yeah. Be careful what you wish for, Michael. Be careful what you wish for. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com.

Why don't we segue to the media here from Kimberly Gilfoyle segue to the media and then out of the media? But let's segue back into the media. Is CNN banned or not banned? I'm a little confused. I'm very confused because Timothy Kelly, a Trump appointed judge, you know, told the White House, ordered the White House to reinstate the press passes. of CNN, MS now, and Politico said that the White House had essentially trampled on their constitutional rights. But CNN then, I think, announced today that it wasn't invited. It was their pool day today and they weren't invited on Trump's trip to a football game,

I believe, in Tennessee. On the plane. So they were not allowed on the plane. Right. So I'm assuming that the pool ban continues. And then we got fits and starts of coverage from she's visit. So it's going to, I mean, this is, I mean, what's going to, we know what's going to happen here. Nothing is going to happen here. And CNN will be back in place eventually and all of the other networks will be back in in place. But Trump will, will push this out. So he's got another

news cycle out of bashing CNN. Now, what I'm wondering about is when CNN is on the verge, And I think this will take place in the next couple of weeks of being owned by a Trump ally. CNN will be owned by the Ellison family, Larry Ellison and his son, David Ellison, who have taken over Paramount and CBS and who are now on the verge of, and I think the way has been cleared so that they will imminently close on the deal. to take over Warner Brothers' discovery, which is own CNN. So what happens at that point? Now, what happens in terms of Trump's regard for CNN and also what happens internally at CNN? Now, this is the, this deal has been held up by the Attorney General of the state of California. And Rob Bonte.

And 13 other AGs, actually. He wasn't on his own. He was taking the lead because obviously it's a California business. Right. But I mean, he's the pivotal player there. And he is the one who basically folded. And he folded last week, week before last. And, you know, with some minor kind of concessions.

Among the concessions is that there would be an editorial board, I think, for CNN to help preserve CNN's independence. Now, anybody who's followed the media industry for any period of times knows that these kinds of boards or these kinds of concessions and soft agreements are nothing. They just go away. They were kind of all pioneered by Rupert Murdoch who would agree to them and then instantly ignore them. Well, do you remember Facebook put in a board which made almost no sense? It was an international board that was supposed to adjudicate on issues. But of course, all these issues arise in real time. And you can't assemble a board fast enough to get them to make a decision if you're covering a big news event or if there's something going on.

A board is kind of almost pointless in that situation. Yeah. Yeah. In the Murdoch situation, he would just literally ignore them. And in his case, and that was with the Times of London, it had, as they say, the force of law. He had to agree with the, I mean, that was an agreement he made with the government. Forget about it. It didn't.

It meant nothing. So that will be the situation, of course, at CNN. And I think we're all, I mean, we will begin to see in the relatively near future what happens at CNN. What do you think is going to happen at CNN? Because obviously you've got Barry Weiss who founded the new press as sort of lively right-wing newsletter. She gets catapulted into, to be the editor-in-chief of CBS News.

She's had a very rough ride changing things around there. Is she going to be the editor-in-chief of CNN too? I think that hasn't been, that's not clear yet. So, and I don't think, I don't know. What happens to the people within CNN? Well, I think that there are, I think the, the latest I heard was that the, they needed, if they were going to merge CBS and CNN, which would surely make sense from a business point of view, 10,000 jobs would need to go.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that is, you know, if, I mean, the merger then would depend, the merger of those two organizations would depend, I would assume, on someone, on, on there being one, one leader of both organizations. and I'm not sure that that's clear yet. Well, certainly Kara Swisher, a fellow podcaster, has been saying that she doesn't want to stay at CNN anymore. She has no interesting, she has no interest work for.

Is Kara Swisher on CNN? She on CNN? Kara Swisher is on CNN. She has. She does, she did a show about longevity. She did a series on longevity. I've been on a show that she does call Table of Five, which is a show on Saturday morning, or she was temporary host, I think, for it.

I mean, which is the other issue. Yeah, which is the other issue of CNN, nobody watches it. And I mean, so this is one of the other ironies of this, of Trump and this, in this, in the current conflict with CNN and several other networks. is that they are getting more attention now than they have for almost anything that they do. I mean, these are these are audiences which have dramatically shrunk over the last 10 years. Well, pretty much all television. The rise of social media, yes.

Yeah, exactly. All television audiences have shrunk. But I think it's fair to say that the president's pretty obsessed with Caitlin Collins. And certainly people know who Anderson Cooper is. Yeah, well, they know who, and I mean, and partly they know, I mean, Anderson Cooper has been doing this for an extremely long time, but he has, and he has left CBS. He was one of those people who, who left CBS and because it had been taken over. Now he's at CNN, and it is being taken over. So how will he react to that?

We don't, we don't know. And Caitlin Collins has become famous because Trump attacks her. But he attacks her because, A, I think he finds a very attractive. He's always saying you're a very pretty young woman. Why don't you ever smile? You never smile. Of course, she does smile. I know, Caitlin.

She smiles plenty just not when she's trying to elicit answers for her questions. Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens and whether or not Barry Weiss stays as editor-in-chief for both titles. I find it hard to believe that Mark Thompson, who's running CNN, would work with Barry Weiss. I mean, he was former Director General of the BBC. He was the CEO of the New York Times. I just find it highly unlikely he would work with Barry Weiss. I think his paycheck is very large. His merger tip, you might say.

So I think that he could care, like. at this point. Well, interesting. And of course, there are two Hollywood memoirs out this. We've got Bob Chapec's memoir out explaining why he thinks he got fired from Disney as the CEO and replaced by his former boss, Bob Iger. And we've got Ari Emanuel's memoir. Bob Chepex memoir seemed to have been, there was a bit of a spoiler story about it in the New York Times, which I don't know if you read by Brooks Barnes, Brooks Barnes. I did read it. I mean, is your, are you thinking that this was a, this was a Disney ploy to get Barnes to write

about this? Well, what I'm assuming is that there was some sort of excerpt and the book was embargoed and the Times jumped the embargo because it seemed very much a Disney, it seemed to come from a Disney angle that this was Bob Chapec, explained. that the system had basically moved against him while he was trying to deal with COVID. So you found this a more favorable story, I guess a more favorable story to the Disney perspective. Yeah, I saw it as coming from the Disney perspective. I read it.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I thought it was actually probably good for Cheapak in the book. It means that, you know, that thing, when somebody is breaking embargoes, that means it's newsworthy and that means it's, you know, it kind of builds some heat. But I don't know. I mean, the thing I found curious about this book, and I haven't read the book yet because I don't have an advance broken embargo copy of the book. but is that Bob Chepec would be surprised by what happened to him. This happens to virtually everybody in these companies. And the fact that he did get to be the CEO for a few minutes is kind of like,

well, this shouldn't have happened to me. It really happened. There's only one guy, if that guy, often there isn't. Often there are no survivors. At the Disney company, Bob Eiger has been a long-time survivor, but that's always been nip and tuck for him. The CEO before Bob Eiger at Disney, Michael Eisner,

was not a survivor. The CEO before him was not a survivor. You know, why should Bob Chapec be different than anyone else? You know, this is what you get for your hundreds of millions of dollars. And then you get to write a book about it. Of some cases, billions of dollars. What you get for that is, well, humiliation. Do you think anybody will read the book?

I know. What about Ari Emanuel? Well's book. Do you think anybody cares? Well, I don't, I don't know. I mean, Ari is a super agent. We should just say. Ari, who I know very well and who I've worked with, worked with before, has literally been on every podcast talk show outlet. There is nowhere, nowhere that Ari hasn't been. And it's very easy for him to be on all of these particularly shows because he has represented all of the people on the shows. Will that mean that this book sells? You know, I'm not sure. I mean, first thing,

you know, even the role of agent, the role of media has so changed. So the idea of media moguls with Bob Chaypec sort of, I guess, hoped he would be. And Ari Emanuel as a super agent, this is, these roles have so changed, been so diluted, been so rendered, so much less interesting than that I don't, you know, I don't know. Is this a story that people are attracted to? I don't know. I kind of doubt it. Well, Ari Emanuel is certainly a very colorful character.

He's more colorful to read about than I think Bob Chaypeg. And Bob Jacob had the extreme misfortune of taking over what a month before COVID hit and he'd run the Disney parks. and then, of course, all the parks shut down. So I don't know if anybody could have manoeuvred out of that. And of course, Bob Eager, who ousted him to come back for a second go at the CEO job, then himself got eventually ousted after a less than glorious second innings, I think, you could say. Are we going to read these books?

I'm definitely going to read both of them. Well, I'm going to skin them. As you say, I never read a book. I skin them. I'm going to skin them for the interesting bits. Because there's always padding in these books. There is always padding in these books. I will have to.

I mean, so Ari's book was written by a very co-written or ghost written by a very famous ghost writer. Yeah, J. R. Moringa. Yes, one of the best in the business. I tell you what I have read. I have read J. R. Moringa's memoir, which is very good, very good. It's about how he basically grew up in a bar in Longer. Island. And of he, of course, he wrote the book Spare, Prince Harry's book, which went on to be, I think, the, well, certainly when it launched, it became the best-selling memoir of all time. Well, we'll see if Harry Emanuel's memoir becomes the best-selling of all time somehow.

Well, I'm sure he will tell people it's the best-selling memoir. He was briefly, I briefly worked with him and I found him terrifying every time he called. I would get a knot in my stomach. And I thought, I'm sure this isn't the way that you're supposed to feel when your agent is calling. And I think I... Yeah, I mean, I speak to Ari now and then, and he calls me somehow always just before I'm going to sleep. Of course. And then it's kind of like a burst of, a burst of energy, a burst of venom, a burst of something, of which you don't get, get the opportunity to even respond to.

He does the burst. Then he says, love you, and then hangs up. And then you can't get to sleep for the next several hours. Well, because he's dyslexic as well, he does that thing where he just calls all the time. And he has people. And actually, when I was looking for his contacts in my book the other day, I realized I had like seven different email addresses for his various assistants, because there's always an Ari assistant.

They don't have separate names. They're just like assistant to Ari. Ari's assistant. Ari Assistant, you know, each email is slightly different. But he's fantastically energetic and entertaining. And he always has a party the weekend of the Oscars, pre the Oscars, which I've been to a couple of times at his house. And it's just packed with stars, packed with stars.

I remember watching Ben Affleck playing pool in the basement. And he was the least famous person in the room. Ari bought my book Fire and Fury and there was a moment when Fire and Fury came out You mean you bought the rights to your book

because we all bought your book Fire and Fury but you mean Ari bought it differently he bought it for somewhat more money than than you did yes and he he was going to represent the book So Ari is not my agent, but he is always telling me he is my agent. And then at that moment, it became actually advantageous, I thought, for him to, in fact, be my agent.

And he, and so we were trying to set that up and he agreed to be my agent. But then he called back 10 minutes later and said, I don't want to be your agent. I want to buy the book. And that was like my lawyer was part of this discussion. That was like, what do we do? And so my lawyer named a monster price for the book and said we would do the deal if the money was in the bank in 24 hours without any paperwork. That sounds very Russian, obviously. And the money was in the bank in 24 hours without any paperwork.

There was subsequently paperwork. And that was it. And then the movie never got made. So what's happened to the rights? Did he buy the rights in perpetuity? Perhaps you could buy them back? No. They lapse after seven.

It has been seven years. They have lapsed. Okay. So, Michael, it's time. It's time to do Fire and Fury. Well, you know, you might have noticed that it is not so easy to get Donald Trump projects off the ground. Well, we should wait till after the midterms and then see if people are perhaps you could go to the new David Allison massive media company and suggest that they... Perhaps opens up all kinds of avenues for...

Well, I think part of their deal is they have to make 30 movies, right? they have to make 30 movies. So maybe Fire and Fury could be one of them and it would be when they'm showing their independence. Do you think? I think Ari should get on the case. Ari, if you're listening, get on the case. All I can say is that whenever he called,

I would immediately get a knot in my stomach and I can feel terrified to pit. And I'll be like, I'll call him back, I'll call him back. And then, of course, he would have rolled on and probably forgotten whatever he wanted to talk to me about. But he was the model for the brutal for the brilliant, brilliant Jeremy Piven as Ari Gold and Entourage, a series I absolutely loved. And when I arrived at Mary Claire and they asked me what kind of an assistant I wanted. I wanted Lloyd, who played R.E. Gold slash Ari Emmanuel's assistant, who was a continually harassed assistant, but always got the job done in the end. I think you could have been a cutthroat agent. I would love to have been a cutthroat agent. Never dawned on me, but I love journalism. Journalism is so much more fun. I would have always crumpled at the last point of negotiation, I think.

When people say they love journalism, I'm skeptical. Really? I've always enjoyed journalism. First, I'm skeptical of anyone who uses the word journalism. Oh, for goodness sake, you're a journalist forever. No, I'm a writer, I'm a writer. Whatever. The point is you're writing about interesting people. Journalism is about writing too.

I don't know. I think you missed that turn in the road. It's cutthroat agent. Cutthroat agent. Well, maybe it's not too late. Probably is too late. Nobody needs an agent anymore. They just produce their own content. They produce their own content. Michael, we've covered a lot of ground. You have the rest of the weekend. I can hear your children in the background. How did the visit to the pumpkin patch go last week? Very well. A lot of, they brought back bushels of apples. Oh, fun. Bushels of apples. That's a very country thing. And are you in the middle of the North Easter? Yes, no. The rain last night was torrential and there are limbs of trees all over our property down. And what about your roofers? Your 1829 roof were withheld. We're very dry, yes.

You're very dry. Well, that's the key thing. I live on the top floor of a loft building in Manhattan. And when it's this rainy, I'm always terrified that this is the moment when the leaks start. So you mean to say you live in the penthouse? I don't think of it as a penthouse. I don't think of it as a penthouse. It's funny. People don't use that word as often as they do. When I first came to New York in the 1970s, people were always, oh, come to my penthouse.

Yeah, it's a very 70s word, isn't it? Maybe because it was associated with the magazine or something, but I never used the word penthouse. I just say it's the top floor. Anyway, we will be back, God willing, on Tuesday, if you haven't been blown away like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz by the Nor Easter. Keep your feet on the ground, please. And who knows what will have happened in, I think, Tennessee where Trump is going. And it's, what is it, 38 days to the midterms, 38 days to the midterms. So we'll be tracking where he's going to spend his next month.

And the poor Republican candidates are saying, you don't. need to come here, stay away. Yeah, no, and let's get to that because the ground is really shifting on a day by day basis and shifting away from Donald Trump, of course. And if anybody knows how I can join Imperia, I've got the business suit. So just please let me know. See you on Tuesday. Thank you. One and all, Ryan, John, Rachel, Heather, Neil. Thank you. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.

We're some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. This family is on the brink of civil wall. Mobland. The hit original series is now streaming on past. Paramount Plus.

We are the Harrogans. Don't know than yet? And Google us. From the underworld of Guy Ritchie. Do you want to step up the ladder? I won't combat dead. Starring Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan, and Helen Mirren. Do I have to do everything myself?

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