The Daily Beast Podcast - This is How Trump Just Got Triply Humiliated

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

The Daily Beast’s brilliant columnist David Rothkopf joins Joanna Coles to examine Donald Trump’s disastrous week on the world stage. From being overheard on a hot mic talking about deals with Vladimir Putin, to Modi undercutting his peacemaker myth, to world leaders gathering in China without him, Trump finds himself without a seat on the world stage. They explore how his failed military parade compares to China’s massive display of power, how his fixation on the Rose Garden reveals his petty interests, and how his “Gaza Riviera” plan turns tragedy into a dark and twisted real estate play. The conversation shows how China and others are moving forward while Trump obsesses over himself and the past. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump may think it's all about him, but it's not. His response, however, is like a little high school kid, feeling isolated and is coming up with his own true social burn book like in Maine Girls. And, you know, he like fires out, you know, I mean, he says some of the most remarkable things. I'm Joanna Coles. This is The Daily Beast podcast. And can you imagine what it must be like to be Donald Trump? Think your new best friend is Vladimir Putin. You've just hosted him in Alaska. You've hung out. You've given him a special ride in the beast. And now it turns out he was best friends all along with Xi Jinping in China and they're hanging out without you. Who better to talk about this with than David Rothcock, who worked in the Clinton administration and was the editor of Foreign Policy magazine. David has been talking to his sources and he's here to tell us what's actually going. on in China. But before we jump in with David Rothkopf, we're thrilled to share a new development. We're rolling out for our dedicated YouTube fans, channel memberships. Our most loyal viewers now have

an opportunity to support and experience The Daily Beast like never before. So what's up for grabs? Well, we'll be hosting exclusive members-only live streams in addition to all of our regular podcast episodes. So join me and a rotating cast from The Daily Beast. team of Michael Wolf, Hugh Dockedy, David Rothkopf, and more. We'll be answering your burning questions about Trump, Epstein, Melania. Where even is she? And if you sign up, you can get exclusive access to our new video opinion series called Opfids and we'll be responding to your comments during the podcast.

So make sure to keep sharing your thoughts. We really love reading them if you'd like to be featured. And we appreciate all the overwhelming support we've received. We are independent media after all, and we're looking forward to continue growing the Daily Beast community on YouTube. Now, remember that party that's going on in China without Donald Trump? Let's get into it with David Rothkopf. David Rothkopf could not imagine anybody I more want to speak to about what Earth is going on with this Shanghai conference. And just to set the stage for a second and then you can tell me I'm completely wrong about this.

It feels like Donald Trump invited his new best friend, Vladimir Putin, to Alaska. They hung out. Donald Trump was overheard on a hot mic later in the week telling Emmanuel Macron that he thought that Putin was going to do a deal for him. And it sounded crazy, but he thought it was going to happen. And now it looks like, in fact, Vladimir Putin's back with his old best friend and they are caught on hot mic again. You gave me this tip.

talking about organ transplants and living to 150 without Donald Trump, who frankly wouldn't be a good candidate for any kind of organ transplant at this point. But what the hell is going on? What is going on, David? Explain. Well, it's been a bad back-to-school week for Donald Trump, right? Because, you know, he's going back and he wants to go to school and he wants to hang out with the cool kids and all the kids he thinks are cool,

who are really the bad kids, but all the kids he thinks are cool, don't want to have anything to do with him. And he has not only alienated them, but he has elevated them. And, you know, you mentioned Xi Jinping, who's the big host of this, and who's the big winner of Trump.

You know, everything Trump does weakens the United States and strengthens China. That's just the punchline of all of this. And, of course, we talk about Putin because Trump is so closely associated with Putin because, you know, in some respects, you know, Trump is a, is a creation of Vladimir Putin. But the really interesting one there is, is Narendra Modi, the head of India, who Trump, just months ago, they were best friends. He liked Modi. He was his kind of guy because Modi is kind of a racist himself. He doesn't really like democracy very much.

Trump thought this was going to, you know, that was the foundation for a good. relationship. But Modi did this terrible thing to Trump. He said, you know, Donald, you keep saying you solved the India-Pakistan war. You didn't. And he's pulling the rug out from Trump's myth of himself as a peacemaker. And this pissed off Trump. And so he imposed all these trade sanctions, tariffs on India. And India's like, well, we may have hated China for the past several thousand years, But enough is enough. We're going to go over and we're going to get together in a way that we haven't gotten together before. And in fact, it's not just Xi and Putin and Modi.

There are dozens of world leaders in China right now saying, we think the world's changing. And we think it's going to be more China-centric. Of course, Trump, who has no sense. of geopolitics at all and sees everything in personal terms. But sees everything as, oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know, I have FOMO. They're leaving me out of this.

I'm not in the center of this. I said I loved Kim Jong-un, but he doesn't love me back. I said I love Vladimir Putin, but he doesn't love me back. You know, I did all this stuff for China. And I am sure this is crushing for Trump. Now, none of that matters because what really matters is China is on the rise and we're on the decline. By the way, one last thing on this. Can you imagine what it was like for Donald Trump to look at the military parade that took place in China yesterday?

After, you know, he had squeaky tanks going by him in Washington. He had the worst military parade in history on his birthday. and all of a sudden, China puts on a display like we have not seen in decades in the world of advanced technology. Armies marching in step, perfect uniforms. It was just, it was like muscle flexing. And Donald is sitting there going, you know, how do I get in with the good kids again? I mean, he's, and they're talking about, we're going to live forever. well, the headlines in the United States are, is the president even alive anymore?

I mean, it's really something. I mean, you said that it was a bad back-to-school week. And this really does feel like high school all over again for men in their 70s and 80s. And of course, there was the truth social posts that Donald Trump put out saying, oh, I hope you're all having a really good time while you conspiring against. the United States and you're like, oh my goodness, how have we got to this point? I mean, there are so many questions I have for you. Not least, you talk about other world leaders, you know, putting their heads up, sniffing the air and realizing that America may not have

their back anymore and so they at least have to start talking to China. That said, and I am not in any way an expert on world leaders. But when I was looking through the rows of them, I couldn't identify very many of them. I mean, obviously there was, well, and I also want to talk to you about the handshake, the handshake, where Modi clutched the hands of Xi and of Putin and they sort of weird, almost sort of fraternity brother handshake. It was bizarre. So I want to, I want to ask you about the symbolism of that. But who were some of the other world leaders? We know Kim John Un was there, but who else were there? Who were those people?

Well, the Iranians were there. A lot of the other countries that support them were there. By the way, you know, I don't think, you know, everything in Donald Trump's mind is Trump-centric. Everything in the world is not Trump-centric. You know, the rise of these big emerging powers has been going on since I was in the Clinton administration in the 90s. In fact, I led something called the Big Emerging Markets Initiative. and then a couple years later, a guy, Goldman Sachs, came up with this idea called the Bricks, which was Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.

And the Bricks took this and they said, yeah, let's turn this into something, which is now a group of, I think, I don't know what's, but maybe 20 countries. And, you know, they're saying the world is not all about the U.S. it's not all transatlantic anymore. We have power. And of course, India and China alone are 40% of the world's population. And you've got to go through us to get things done. And this has been an effort that has appealed to Russia.

It's appealed to India. It's appealed to Iran. It's appealed to the Brazilians who right now hate the United States because of Donald Trump and his, you know, a total. tax on Brazil and his tariffs in order to support his, you know, mini-me in Brazil, Yair, Bolsonaro. But at the center of it all, it's about the rise of China, something that's been going on since 1979, something that's actually gone on throughout history.

And for all of history, until the early part of the 19th century, China was the biggest economy in the world. India was the second biggest. We had the Industrial Revolution. they caught up, and we're now moving back into an era where they are going to be in a much greater leadership position. So, you know, Trump may think it's all about him, but it's not. His response, however, is like a little high school kid who, you know, is just, you know, feeling isolated and is coming up with his own true social burn book, like in Maine Girls. And, you know, he like,

fires out. I mean, he says some of the most remarkable things, you know, like, oh, well, China ought to realize that, you know, we were the ones who supported them when they faced an very unfriendly foe, you know, meaning the Japanese, I assume. Well, I assume that referred to the end of the Second World War, right, when he said that. Right. Well, right. We supported them when the Japanese attacked them and so forth. But, you know, he said this other thing the other day, which is so trumpy. because, you know, every day he seems to search for hyperbole that exceeds all hyperbole that has ever existed in history. And yesterday he said... Which is a very Trumpian phrase in itself, actually.

You're picking up his habit. I'm channeling the... You're channeling him. But, you know, he said, if it weren't for the United States, everybody else in the world would be dead. And I just thought, oh, my God. Oh, I miss that. I miss that. Did he truth social that? I think he said it in some in some press event. But it was like, oh, really? But this is narcissistic. You know, this is a narcissist. It's like I, the world is only me. It's only my perceptions of the world. And if I cease to exist, it ceases to exist. Which is why a declining Donald Trump, the guy you write about with the cancels and the thing on his. hand and everything. Why that's so dangerous for the world, because the more he thinks he's on his

way out, the less he cares about everybody else. And, well, that's a great point. And also, he's so thin-skinned. Imagine what he must have felt like. And you sent me the clip, I think, from the Japan Times, which had the hot mic of Xi Jinping and Putin talking together about the possibility of having an organ transplant, which would mean they could live until they were 150. And I I just thought, gosh, if you're Donald Trump and your hearing, is everyone hanging out and having fun without me? That must have been what it felt like. He's already so alone. He cuts such a lonely figure, even when surrounded by his cabinet that we know hate him and hate each other.

And I just thought, gosh, this is going to end badly. Well, it's going to end badly for sure. But, you know, he must listen to this stuff. even as he is in these, like in the press event he had yesterday to talk about the non-event of moving space command from Colorado to help. Total non-event. Total non-event. But it just, he's desperate for attention. But even during it, he said four times, well, I'm still alive, you know.

And it's like, as if to prove it, Jim, Sal. But what? You're still alive. And so they're going to live to 150. And he's like having to prove he's still alive. And he's also saying, you know, he's still. this weird stuff. I don't know. You may have a theory about it, but where he's going, I'm trying to get into heaven. I want to. Legacy building, right? Is that legacy building?

No, he thinks he's going to die and he doesn't want to go to hell for all eternity. I think he's like, no, no, I got us to thinking about the next chapter here. It's sad. It's really, really sad. Meanwhile, it's such a great metaphor because the Chinese and the Russians and all these other people, they're like, we have moderate, they were talking about biotech, right? They were, they were, and Putin, who's a little obsessed with this, has invested like a billion dollars

into biotech, and he's trying to, you know, stay fit and whatever, and she is also, they're investing a ton into this, but it's also saying we have a future. And Donald Trump, who's all about bringing,

not just the world to about Donald Trump, but to his values, which are sort of moored in the 18th and 19th century. He wants to go backwards. They want to go forwards. He's dying. They want to live forever. He's got less and less power.

They have more and more power. It's the contrast that, you know, in the middle of this thing is huge. It's true. Although we might now think after the hot mic that Putin was investing all that money because he just wants to live until 150. Because as much as Donald Trump thinks the world about Donald Trump,

Vladimir Putin may think that the world is actually about him, and Xi Jinping may think the world is about them, I guess. David, just hold on for a moment. We're going to take a message from our sponsors. We love our advertisers, and we're back talking about the party in China that Donald Trump wasn't invited to. Can we talk about the parade for a moment? Because as you said, it was beautifully choreographed.

I couldn't help thinking, well, first of all, couldn't help thinking about how Donald Trump had reamed out Pete Hager because his big, beautiful birthday parade turned out to be such a disappointment. And people sitting with Trump were yawning, sitting with him were yawning because at this point they really didn't care. And the army, what Donald Trump, I think, doesn't realize is the army, you know, is run by consultants now and they want to be friendly and smiling. They want people to go into the army for a career path, not sort of look intimidating and be goose stepping round the park in D.C. But I did think also that all the machinery looked fantastically new and shiny and all the

uniforms did too. And you thought, well, this isn't a country that's actually been to war for a long, long time, unlike the American Army, which has been dispatching soldiers right left and center since the Second World War. I mean, I don't think China has been to war since Korea. Korea, right? Well, yeah, and China has never been, despite, you know, everybody's terror about China, it's never been kind of the big imperial power. It's never really tried to project its force. It's always really focused on defending and maintaining control over the area that it sees as China.

And so one of the things that's happening in China, which is new under Xi Jinping, is really kind of embracing the idea of being a world leading power and trying to shape the global community in a more Chinese direction. I don't personally think this means they want to conquer the planet. But the contrast was really striking. I mean, I don't know if you remember from the Trump-Hegseth embarrassment of a parade in June, but, you know, they had a guy from, I don't know, the drone corps or something in his baggy fatigues walking down the street in Washington holding a little drone over his head. Like, you know, it was a picture was like, he was like flying a little model plane.

And then, you know, the Chinese yesterday had these giant advanced drones and massive sea-going drones to destroy. Oh, these 60-foot long ones, right, that go under the water. Yeah. And, you know, they have a lot of technology. Now, there's going to be a whole bunch of people. and Washington are like, well, the Chinese don't really have this and they don't really have that. They are way ahead of wherever they were.

They're in the middle of the single biggest ramping up of nuclear power that we've seen since the U.S. and Russia were in a arms race in the 50s and 60s. They're planning to try to get to a thousand nuclear warheads. They're still way, way behind the U.S. and Russia on that. But they've built now, I think, two aircraft carriers. They didn't have that before. They're building a Blue Water Navy. They didn't have that before.

And she's message was, you can't bully us. You can't intimidate us. And I think that message came through loud and clear. Meanwhile, you know, the United States is run by, you know, this desiccated old felon sex trafficker racist, and he's got his military being run by a drunken frat boy idiot who can't even organize a parade. It's sad. It is a bit sad, isn't it? I mean, it's hard not to laugh at it, and it's hard not to laugh at it in terms of just the personalities involved and the way that Trump appears to be regularly maneuvered, or regularly outmaneuvered, I should say,

by this access of upheaval. Last time we were talking, you poured scorn on something that Donald Trump had said, which is that Xi Jinping had said to him that he wouldn't invade Taiwan while Donald Trump was president. Did you think that there was any, was there any flexing directly over Taiwan yesterday, did you think? Well, I mean, look, the one conflict that most people assume that China's preparing for is one that has to do with Taiwan, although I still think it's kind of 50-50 about how Taiwan returns to China, not if, by the way, I think it'll happen eventually.

But, you know, Xi Jinping clearly is trying to send the message that that issue will be resolved by the problem. China on Chinese terms, on China schedule. I frankly think Trump's okay with that. I don't think Trump really gives a shit about Taiwan. And I don't think he gives a shit about any place, except for Trump in the White House, maybe his ballroom, maybe his paved over Rose Garden, where he seems to be very concerned this past weekend,

that a contractor scraped the limestone in his Rose Garden. This is what he's devoting himself to. And, you know, the contrast between Xi Jinping standing there saying, look at what we have built here in China, and Trump, on true social, going, and then this contractor scraped the Rose Garden pavement, and we have to have the whole thing repaved. But I'm on it, folks. I assumed that he'd noticed a nick in the limestone and that this was simply a way. way of getting out of paying the contractor, which felt like typical Trump behavior. That's the, look, Trump is a cheeseball developer or from Queens, New York. That is all he is, that is all he will ever be. And when he looks at things, he looks at it and says, you know,

how can I put my stamp on that? And ideally in big gold letters. And he has terrible taste. I mean, you know, he took the elegant rose carton and he bathed it over. He wants to put the ballroom of the Borgata on the White House, which it certainly does not need. But he does this with everything. I mean, you know, there was a memo last week that came out from the State Department that said they are talking about how do you get all the Gazans to leave Gaza so that they can proceed with this plan to turn it into a resort. aren't, you know, which Trump has called the Gaza Riviera. And it's like, I mean, you can't make it up. It is the worst dark comedy in the world. Here's a site of a Holocaust of a genocide, where the world's genocide scholars just voted last week and said, yeah, this is a genocide.

And Trump's like, yeah, you know what, that would be good. Let's let's put casinos. Let's have a You have famine, and he's like, I can only imagine the buffet line at the Trump Casino Gaza. It's almost too bad taste to laugh about it. And meanwhile, this behavior gives China an open door to change the world, to change the world order. Well, look, China's a deeply flawed country. And Xi Jinping is a authoritarian leader of the worst sort. And there's all sorts of oppression going on there. But I don't think we should take a view of it that is black and white.

The reality is China is leading the way on lots of kinds of technology from environmental technology to AI technology to some AI technologies to some biotechnologies. The economy is vibrant. It is growing. Most Americans would go to a Chinese city right now and they would go, oh, my God, this is the future. they you know there's holograms there's apps people don't use money things are it's it's I'm not saying it's paradise

deeply flawed people are in prison camps this is a terrible place in some respects but this country is growing and it's about tomorrow and the United States has lost the plot we're trying to turn back time we're trying to get rid of voting rights

and we're trying to get rid of immigrants who drove it and we're trying to push away the smartest people in the world and say, don't come study at our schools. And we're shutting down scientific research. And we've got people in charge of our health agencies who don't actually believe in the medical science of the 18th century. And we've got people in charge of our environmental agencies who don't actually believe in the science that every scientist in the world believes in. So we're going backwards fast and they're moving forward. And the world is looking at it going, you know, which, which, you know, do I want to be associated with going forward?

And quick break to hear from our sponsors. And I'm back with David Rothkopf talking about the new world order, which China is very much leading. David, I did notice, and I guess this is because she was hosting the conference, that he wasn't in Western suit and tie, as you normally was, we've sort of got gotten used to seeing him. He was actually wearing a more sort of Chinese jacket with a round collar. Well, it evoked Mao. And I think for the Chinese people who are watching, that was intentional. C has been in this sort of years-long process of elevating himself above all Chinese leaders except Mao to be sort of seen as a special level, a leader for life. And I think this

evoked that. But of course, this was a big nationalist spectacle, and dressing in a more Chinese way, a way more associated with China over the recent decades, I think sends a message that he is not catering. He's not tailoring himself to Western images, literally. He is embodying Chinese identity as it exists right now. So, you know, I think it's stagecraft. And when you see them all talking together, like Modi and Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, what language are they speaking? Do they have one common language? No, they don't. Mostly they speak through translators. And, I mean, if you look at the images, there's always a guy leaning in with Putin, you know, or or or or or or

leaning in with Xi Jinping and the others. They may speak some bits and pieces, fragments of their own Chinese or Russian, as many of them have been schooled in that. But almost all of this is through translators. And that also helps them sort of control what's being said and keeping it on script. So David Rothkoff, you've just laid out. the Democrats' case for them. Where are they? Where are they? Who should we be paying attention to? Good question. You know, it's certainly not Akeem Jeffries, who over the weekend said,

well, we have to, you know, you want to improve housing. Let's work together on that, Donald. As if Donald Trump will ever work together with the game Jeffords. Well, he's also working on housing in Gaza, right? He wants to put in luxury landoes. He wants to put, he's got Donald Trump Jr. and Eric going around the world. with a tin cup saying you want a little good action with the U.S. Put your Bitcoin right here, buddy. And the New York Times yesterday said, what did they make? $5.1 billion?

Yeah. In eight months, the greatest shakedown corrupt act in the history of probably of all corrupt acts so far, although Putin may have something going on the side that's bigger than that. But, you know, this is a, administration that is all about solving the monetary ambitions of the president and not anything about about the country. We're about to have RFK Jr. effectively ban certain vaccines in this country. So I'm bringing you back to where are the Democrats?

Because this should be easy chickens for them, shouldn't it? No, no, you should. you should bring me back to a bit. But, you know, I think J.B. Pritzker over the weekend was saying we're not going to play, and he's been pretty good about it. And Gavin Newsom, who personally for me is like, you know, too slick by half on everything. And, you know, with the whole Kimberly Gilfoyle past, I don't really trust his motives or the podcasting. But he's been pretty good enough.

What do you mean you don't trust his motives? Do you think he wants Kimberly back? No. I think he has. His true love has always been Gavin Newsom. And I think, you know, he just wants to advance Gavin Newsom. But his social media play is cutting through, isn't it? It is. It's making a point.

Just like Mom Donnie is making a point in New York. Or just like, you know, young voices. Jasmine Crockett cuts through all of this. And you actually hear what she has to say. And, you know, there's some encouraging signs. I thought it was an encouraging sign that Jerry Nadler, congressman from New York City, who's the same age as Trump, said, no, I'm too old. I shouldn't run anymore. And I think he said 30 terms. Yeah, well, yeah, you know, he's been around for a long time.

But here's the thing. He, um, he, um, he is kind of a menchy guy. And he's saying, no, we need generational change. And, and the more people who get that message, the better. There have been a bunch of special elections in Florida recently in the Midwest. Democrats are winning the special elections. There are two gubernatorial elections this year in Virginia and in New Jersey. The Democrats are going to win those elections. So there are little signs of life, but I'll tell you, it's not coming from the baby boom vintage leaders of the Democratic Party. It's coming from green shoots out there across the country, new voices, which is not to say some of the, you know, it's a couple of people, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are still scoring points better

than their colleagues in the Senate. But the real hope here is that in the run-up to the 2016 election, you're going to see a lot of new voices who are addressing new issues in new ways. and that's why I don't put much stock in this, well, the Democratic brand is dead. Nobody votes for a brand. They vote for people. And I think over the course the next couple of years, people are going to stand up to Trump. They are going to message better than Trump. And people are going to say, yeah, I'll take some more of that.

David, that's a very positive note on which to end. I wasn't expecting that we were going to get to a positive note from you. But that is positive. And obviously, we'll be talking to you again. and we'll watch the fallout of this Shanghai conference and watch Truth Social as Donald realizes everybody's hanging out and having much more fun without him. Yes.

Well, I look forward to following up on all of that and continuing our conversation. David, thank you. Thank you. So there you have it. Donald Trump thinks only about himself and about his impact. And as David Rothkopf says, and as said before, Donald Trump really thinks that foreign relations,

international relations, is really about his relationships with other world leaders and that that's the only thing that matters. Well, let's see if he's right. At least Europe is paying a little bit more for its own security. But what you saw in China this week was the development of a new world order. So keep watching for more of David Rothkopf's insightful. analysis and commentary. And if you have been, thank you for joining us. Share this episode with your friends, with your enemies, with people you want to get back in touch with and need an excuse to. And don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. You can leave a comment for us on YouTube.

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