The Daily Beast Podcast - This Is Laughable Truth About Trump's 'Tough Guy'

Episode Date: October 11, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles turn their attention to Pete Hegseth, as the Secretary of Defense is facing mounting criticism over the Iran war while quietly positioning himself for a presidential run. They break down his latest State of the Force speech, which Wolff argues was designed to flatter Donald Trump and win over the MAGA base, and Joanna traces Hegseth’s tough-guy rhetoric back to his time in Iraq. As the war drains American munitions and the midterms approach, they consider whether Trump will make Hegseth the fall guy. But Wolff sees a strange possibility: the louder the calls for Hegseth’s removal become, the less likely Trump may be to fire him. And if Hegseth does lose his job, that may only accelerate his campaign for the next one. #ad Unlock your best hair & skin with @iRestorelaser and HUGE savings on iRESTORE with code BEAST at https://irestore.com/BEAST ! #irestorepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

U.S. Voters Abroad. Have you got your ballot yet? All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to votefromabroad.org and click request my ballot. Ask to receive it by email. Questions? Ask our support team directly. Don't miss this chance to shape the future. Don't delay. Vote fromabroad.org. This is a positioning speech to the MAGA base. MAGA base like this. Am I saying things that will resonate with the MAGA bros? He's running for president, but he's also struggling not to be fired by the sitting current president. So he wants to hold on to his job and then he wants the bigger job,

which sort of defines every lackey in the world. He's a suck-up. He's willing to do this. I'm positioned as a tough guy, but what I really am is as a doormat, as a weak guy, willing to accept all manner of humiliation before Donald Trump. Michael. Joanna. We are still in our hotel rooms. We are still away and traveling. I'm in San Francisco.

You're in London. That would put us about 6,000 miles apart. We're 8 hours apart, 8 hours apart, which is. which is a feat of technical, technical, whatever. Don't forget, come and see us on October the 20th, Teragram Ballroom, L.A. We're looking forward to seeing you. Ticketmaster has the tickets, if you would like to put one.

They're going very fast. I'm not sure how many there are left. Or beast. Dot Pub slash ITH live. Michael. Or go to Ticketmasters and just put in inside Trump's head. So, Michael, when we talked on Thursday, we said that we were going to double down, as Donald Trump loves to do himself, on Pete Hegseth, because there are so many rumors around that he may well be fired after the midterms, if things go badly. Well, let me put on top of that. I mean, I think the reason to double down on Pete Hegseth is that he is that he is now the guy at the center of.

the worst crisis on the many crisis of the Trump administration. He's at the center of the worst. I mean, the one thing that it would appear will compromise both houses of Congress and put Trump into a, I mean, be the effective end of the, of, of what Trump might accomplish during his time as the president. And even more importantly, in he as hegesith is at the center of a war that we shouldn't have begun. that we can't, that we basically have lost and cannot get out of. He is the, if not the, yeah, I would say he is now the, the pivotal problem, one of the pivotal problems in the Trump administration. He's the point person for an enormous part of the world's pain right now.

And one can't help wondering, Michael, What was it, do you think, about the urge to take a risk on Iran? Because everybody had advised them not to do this. They were ahead with the Maduro extrication from Venezuela. What do you think it was that made both Hegsef and Trump think that they could get away with Iran? There's an important distinction to be made here. It is not that Hegsev is the author of, of this war or even really a key decision maker in going to war.

Hegsseth has only one function, which is to rubber stamp what Donald Trump says, sometimes to anticipate what Donald Trump would like, always to be the person who is the, ass kiss here. Right, they're handmaiden to the commander-in-chief. So his, and Higgs's real job, the job as the Secretary of Defense would be to offer the President of the United States, the commander-in-chief, all of the reasons we shouldn't go to war, all of the reasons that it might be a unwinnable war or a difficult war to win. or a costly war.

And clearly he didn't do that in any way. He's not even in a position to do that. Donald Trump would not construe the job of the Secretary of Defense to do that. He's the guy waiting there. What do you want to do? He's the guy. He's the guy, you know, jump, how high. And that's what he did.

So this. And let's understand that the background. to this is he is unfit for this job, inexperience for this job, not to mention all of the personal baggage. He brings to this job, but he is, he is, and that's the nature of the, of the crisis here, the person who is the Secretary of Defense, one of the most complex leadership jobs in, in the United States, probably in the world. I mean, I believe that the Defense Department may be the biggest employer in the United States. I think it may be the biggest employer in the world. A complex management task that some of the most senior managers in American business have been unable to deal with, actually. So here we have we have, we have hagger.

the co-host of a weekend television show. And that's what he brings to this job. Well, he brings a lot to the job. We saw him huffing and puffing because he's obsessed with physical fitness in San Diego last week. He was working out with the troops. And of course, in the very city that Donald Trump had said, well, you know, what a price to pay. Maybe that's the price to pay if Iran takes L.A. and San Diego out. So you have made the point that despite the fact that Heg-Zeth is possibly the least equipped,

least-experienced, least-appropriate person to lead the American military, he nevertheless has the presidency also in his sights. And last week he gave his second state of the force speeches, where it was very clear that he was laying out his platform, A, to attract the MAGA base post-Trump, but B, to lay out his platform for presidency beyond his current job. And I guess it doesn't matter if he survives his current job or not. He's still going to run. Just to point out that litany of things that one might say would handicap him his unfitness and inappropriateness and go down the list is none of those.

things apparently at this point in history preclude you from being president. So, I mean, they may actually. In Donald Trump land, in Trump land here, it might actually qualify you to be president. If healthier looking hair and skin have been on your mind, this might be your sign to stop putting it off. I received the I Restore Elite and Illumina face mask and what I love is how easily they fit into your routine. The elite is comfortable enough to wear while working or watching TV, and it uses 300 lasers and 200 LEDs to help regrow thicker, healthier hair. You may have noticed, I have grown my hair recently. The Illumina is lightweight cordless and takes just 10 minutes. It's 360 medical grade

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That's beast at irisdore.com. And please support our show and tell them we send you, give your skin and hair the upgrade they deserve. So you can feel confident and refresh. Much has been made. This speech has been poured over by the media, by analysts. There's no bea-does, no weirdos, no trannies. We know all that. There was one part which I think sort of sums up Hegeseth and comes, I think, from his background in the

military. And it's really at the cultural divide of what's going on in the military right now and also at the cultural divide of actually what's going on in America. And I'm going to read the particular paragraph that I think really A sums up the speech in which he divided the speech into six new initiatives. And we can come back to that at a later date. But this is the paragraph that I thought encapsulated what Pete Higgs-eth is running on and his own experience in the military. The power is back in the hands of commanders and NCOs. Not lawyers and HR reps. Very important.

And we'll come on to why. Telling someone to get in shape or shave or fix their uniform or start busting their ass, that awful colloquial speech. That's not discrimination. That's leadership. We have ended the poisonous culture of risk aversion. Oh, really? If only they'd decided to avert the risk of going into Iran.

And empowered leaders at every single level. to simply enforce standards. The only focus, as you know, in your formations, should be training, readiness, accountability, availability, discipline, and lethality. And when you pursue those things, you don't have to walk on eggshells. No more social engineering, no more weaponised IG policies.

The complainers, the ideologues, and the poor performers are no longer in the driver's seat, no more silly PowerPoint trainings or drag queen shows, no more diversity quotas, no more gender pronouns, no more identity months. I mean, you talked about how Donald Trump during the first administration, the minute he saw a PowerPoint presented by one of the Joint Chiefs, he was out the door, right? He couldn't stand there. And I will tell you, so that's the line. And all of this goes into it, to assemble these speeches, is an assembly of the things. that Donald Trump has said because you think, well, we'll say those and we'll repeat that back to him, and that will get a positive response from Donald Trump.

So this speech is, A, has two audiences. It has an audience of one, and we know who that is. But then we also have, we're also speaking to a MAGA base. So this is not really about the military. It's not really about running, running the Pentagon. It's not really about the war. This is a positioning speech to the MAGA base. Will the MAGA base like this? Will, am I saying things that will resonate with, you know, the MAGA bros in essence? So it is completely a campaign speech. Everything, nothing here means anything except a positioning statement. Right. And I will just shout up.

one other thing, he's very sucky-uppy to Donald Trump in this speech. Simply put, thanks to the courageous and common sense leadership of our commander-in-chief, Donald A. Trump, the state of our force is today stronger than it's ever been in our nation's history. So at the same time, realize he's running for president, but he's also struggling not to be fired by the sitting current president. So he wants to hold on to his job and then he wants the, bigger job. So, I mean, which is, which sort of defines every, every lackey in the world. But I'm particularly struck by this speech because I talk to a very senior member of the American military a few months ago about Pete Hexeth. And he said that, you know,

can you tell us who. No, I can't tell you. I absolutely can't tell you who. But what was fascinating. No, you can't guess. But what was fascinating. Is he in uniform? Is he in uniform? Oh my God. Oh my God. Stop already. Stop already.

I don't do this to you when you say that you've been talking to people in the White House. But the point of the conversation really was to, he was trying to explain to me the complexities in the military and the division of culture. And really Pete Hegzat's own experience in Iraq when he was working for a character called Michael Steele, who people might remember because he was actually at the center of the Somalia incident, which later became the focus of the movie Black Hawk Down, in which 18 American soldiers were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter was shot down in Somalia. And that left a deep, profound impression on Michael Steele, who then ended up running a a large unit called the Rackisons in Iraq, which Pete Hegseth was then attached to.

And then Hegseth himself ran a smaller command. So Pete Hegzeth is running Charlie Company and there is an incident where they're out on an operation and five unarmed Iraqis are shot and killed. I'm not trying to imply he was there. But then what unfolds is. three of the soldiers who are involved try to cover up the incident. And of course it becomes one of those things where the cover up is as bad as the crime

and lawyers get involved and there are whole court cases over it and the soldiers themselves end up going to prison over it. And it centres around the command of this character, Michael Steele, and the fact that he had no interest in culturally understanding Iraq, he wasn't interested in learning the language, he was there only, as he said, to give the enemy the maximum opportunity to give his life for his country. Obviously, an ironic quote, meaning that they were there to kill as many Iraqis as they could. And that his experience in Somalia had really sort of toughened him to the point where he wanted, he. his men to be as lethal as possible.

And there was a very interesting piece that appeared in the New Yorker, actually 17 years ago, which quotes Hegzeth in it. So this is way before Hegsef has gone on Fox television. It's way before Hegsef ends up amazingly running the American military. And it's a very detailed piece about this specific incidents. But it goes into Michael Steele in great detail. and this is a senior officer talking about the company. We were not doing Arab cultural awareness.

We were not doing Arabic with Iraqi dialect language training. Instead, Steele instituted a harsh regimen of physical condition. He led the brigade on eight-mile runs. And it goes into the extraordinary lengths to which he pushed his men physically to make sure that they were the most. the most lethal force imaginable. And that is very much at the heart of the culture that Pete Hegzeth was involved in when he was in Iraq. And of course, we then saw that sort of, we saw that spill over into the two Veterans Affairs organizations that he ran where he was accused of

inappropriate financial shenanigans, where he was in, you know, he was accused of being intoxicated on the job. Let me just clarify. So he was a protege of, of this Michael Steele. Yeah. And the feeling was, I think, that the military were handcuffed by HR rules and by cultural rules. And there was this very much a division in the military between the men that felt like this is war, the insurgents, we have to meet them where they are.

And we're just going to shoot as many of them as we can. And others who said, you're only going to win by hearts and minds and reconstructing their country. And so, and if I'm correct me, if I'm mistaken. and that Michael Steele then had problems with the brass, that he became, was he kicked out of the? I can't remember this point. Well, his career effectively ended after this incident, which was called Operation Murray. Right.

So that was ended by the higher officer level, the general level, the top brass. at the Pentagon, which is one of the reasons that Hegsseth is, well, now firing almost every member the top brass that he can fire and has made the Pentagon hierarchy, the military hierarchy, his enemy, essentially, which actually is part when he, in his first interviews or discussions with Donald Trump about this job, that Trump, too, had enormous resentments about the generals in the Pentagon, who he felt, who he felt did not take him seriously during the first administration, who were yesing him and then ignoring him, who were subjecting him actually to endless powerpoints, which he couldn't sit in a room

long enough to actually understand what was going on. So that was sort of their way of, of dealing with Donald Trump bore him to death. And so he and Hague-Siff in the way that this meeting has been, I think they had several meetings before he got the nod to be the Secretary of Defense. But how these meetings played out was each of them saying how much the problem was the Pentagon itself, the top brass in the Pentagon that we should get rid of. all of these guys, which apparently Hakeson has gone on to do. This episode is brought to you by Animals.

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casting. You know, he's looking at movies. You've referred to him watching movies about the military in the 50s, you know, a few good men where, you know, people look like Hollywood actors and turn up. We know that he loves those big Chinese. where the Chinese soldiers are actually all identical height and they're chosen for their identical height when they appear in those parades and that that's what the president wants. But I just want to go back to this piece that was in the New Yorker 17 years ago by someone called Rafi Kachydurian because, and the reason I'm focused on steel is just that he turns out to be the mentor really for for Hexeth and Hegseth's attitude to the military now.

Steele told his men that he wanted to whip somebody's ass. This is when he's in Iraq. And when he heard soldiers talk about taking known enemy fighters as prisoners, and this is him being quoted, they say, well, you know, they're shooting at you. What we need to do is we need to go over and we need to kick their feet out from under them and flex cuff them and bring them back and put them in a room and give them some water because they're probably dehydrated and not thinking, well, well, we'll give them some food because they're probably not eaten well.

We need to put our arm around them and then give them an open-mouthed kiss. Tell them that we love them. Some soldiers laughed again, and after we've befriended them, then they're going to tell us all this intelligent. Man, that is bullshit, he continued. If you go out and someone presents a lethal threat to you,

you shoot him. Do not feel bad and think you should have brought him back because I didn't want to talk to him. Steele told his men to think of themselves as apex predator. again, the language that Hegseth use, if you mess with me, I will eat you. I'm talking about the moment of truth when you're about to kill the other son of a bitch. I do not want you to choke.

All I'm hearing is blah, blah here. This is nobody is saying anything of Michael Steele is not saying anything of substance here. He is basically saying, you know, it's all, it's all performative. It's all opposed. We have no ideas here. Well, what I think he's saying is that we're not going to be nice to these guys. We're not going to embrace them. And I think you see that in the language of Pete Heggseth.

I know, but that's not an idea. You're not saying anything that we're not going to be nice to them. We're going to show them. Well, that's what you do in war. This is a rhetorical posture. That's all this is. Exactly. And that's all the Pete Hegseth is doing here, too.

And that's all that's all that's all that's all that's all Pete Hegseth is doing. Exactly. Exactly. But in that, that becomes they, I mean, that becomes the issue here in which you put someone into this job who is not there to do the job, but who is there to, you know, promote himself really. And this particular job is, really, really does. demands that somebody do it. I mean, this is to be the civilian authority in the United States military, which is a, you know, I mean, a, you know, a constitutional privilege, let's call it that. You know, the military does not run the military. A civilian runs the military.

and you ought to be acting like that. I mean, you ought to be acting like the guy who runs a very, very complex organization, a guy who knows how to run a very, very complex organization. And if you've abdicate that responsibility to be, you know, a propagandist, I suppose, or to be launching your own campaign, we're going to be in trouble. and we are obviously in trouble. So we have gone into a war in which we've run out of bullets. I mean, we've run out of munitions.

We've run out. Can there be a greater failure on the part of the senior most manager of the United States military? We've run out of the bullets. We've removed the last aircraft carrier from the South China Seas, leaving Taiwan vulnerable. and having had one achievement with Venezuela, and I think sort of giddy from that experience, going into Iran, which the five previous presidents all decided not to do. And yet Donald Trump is determined. I mean, he says that Pete Hegseth sort of persuaded him, which I think is partly him, again,

blaming Hegseth, but Hegseth looks extremely vulnerable. at this point. Well, let's get to that and to some speculation about what's going to happen to him. But also, let's look at the transformation of Pete Hegset because he's had this job. Jobs in high places do a couple of things. I mean, they position you really for even higher jobs. So we have Hegset, who has no, is unfit, he's inexperienced, he's experienced. He's, comes with all of these other problems, the alcoholism, the women problems. But because he has been given this job and because he was confirmed by the Senate, and we ought to look to everyone who, in fact, voted for Pete Hague said full well-knowing he was unfit for this job. Tom Tillis, the outgoing senator from North Carolina, said it was the worst decision he'd ever made in his life to confirm Hexeth. So he's given this job.

He's promoted into this position, which means he isn't, you know, reality is re-shaked. He can run for president, which he will certainly be doing using this job to do that. Because he is, he has the platform in which to say, I am a tough guy. And that, will that make, that very well could make him someone who is attractive to this, to this, to the Trump base, which, you know, is certainly as capable of getting someone elected. Well, and one of the reasons Trump liked him was because he looked the part, because he's sort of squat. I mean, everything about him seems square, doesn't it? He's got a square face. He's got square shoulders, square body.

He wears his pants too short, which I find odd. I'm surprised that Donald Trump likes that. But he is, we've talked about this before, he seems like an American boy doll with his little kerchief and his matching socks and his stars and stripes everywhere. I'm surprised he doesn't have stars and stripes contact lenses. But let's go back to, you know, he is, he is. In this job, during the first administration, there was always a kind of, within the White House, it was amusing to many people how much the people at Fox wanted access to Donald Trump and how much they were, and what they were willing to do to get it, Sean Hannity particularly. But no one as much as Pete Hegseth.

So Pete Hegsith became a kind of joke within the first, the first White House. You know, I mean, that's where I picked up, then they would call him Hager's because it was. I thought we'd come up with the name, Hager's. Well, I came up with it just because in the White House that's what they would call him. And I actually was always interested then that it had not gotten a wider, received a wider appeal. But I hope it does now because. If he were living in England, he would automatically be called Heggers, because that's what the English do. They just throw an ERS at the end of everybody's name.

You would be Wolfers. But at this, you know, it is, again, the central credential here is the Trump credential. He's a sucker. He's willing to do this. So the tough guy, and we should see this, you know, I'm positioned as a tough guy, but what I really is a doormat, as a weak guy. I mean, is a guy who is willing to accept all manner of humiliation before Donald Trump. Perfect man to run for president of the United States, Michael.

Do you think that he will, do you think that, well, I suppose it depends what happens with other candidates, right, as to whether or not he actually stands a chance? Yeah, no, you can't tell on this. all of, you know, whoever is winnowed out is the crapshoe. So the more interesting thing is who is, who goes into the top of the funnel. And Hegsith has certainly put himself there, but understand that leap of how incredible that is, the man who goes from the co-host of a weekend television show. In other words, a kind of a second raider in his chosen profession to be on television.

But a man who has failed at running two veterans' organizations, I mean, the least you would think, if you have come out of a difficult war, and I think he did see difficult times in Iraq, if you have come out of that, to then have the audacity to run two veterans' organizations badly. and then to get elevated to run the military. It's madness. I mean, yes. Well, let's understand the sequence here. Yeah, the veterans organizations, but that's not really germane to his career interest. His career interest is he hopes to be Sean Hannity.

That's what he wanted to be. He didn't want to be Secretary of Defense. He didn't want to run veterans organizations. And by the way, he campaigned to be, to run the veterans department during the first administration and didn't get that job. But the job he really wanted and was far, far from getting, is a primetime anchor job on Fox News. So this is to be the Secretary of Defense. He took that job and went after that job, as he went after the veteran affairs job, was because his career in television,

wasn't going where he wanted it to do. And now his career might well take him. Certainly he's running for president of the United States, but I suppose it's just a world in which if Donald Trump can get elected, perhaps Pete Higgseth could get elected. It's also what he has to do at this point. First thing, he has to try to protect his current job. But even if he can't protect this current job,

or can't continue to hold this current job, He kind of steps over that by then declaring his run for president, raising an enormous amount of money. I'm sure that he actually has a money base that he's put together as he has been running the Department of Defense. And he, you know, he's in business. He's put himself into business as. as a person of high political standing in the Republican Party. So talking about people who had television careers, Tucker Carson, do you think that Tucker Carson is going to run for president? He was very successful in television, then gets

fired as a result of the Fox Dominion case. Does Tucker run against him? Is Tucker in the mix, do you think? Well, Tucker is in the mix. I mean, you know, who is ultimately in the mix is, well, it's a question of who is in the mix at the beginning, who is in the mix and at the after the beginning, in the middle and then at the end. So Tucker would be, and in all of these guys, I mean, we're saying Hegseth is running for president, which he is. Are there things that might stymie him early on and convince him not to run for president? Yeah. I mean, this is when somebody comes along and you get a call and you say, you know, we got this on you.

We found out you better not run for president. Or somebody comes along who has a better chance and starts talking about, you know, other options, the other options that might be available to you. You know, I don't know, the secretary, the vice presidency, just assume. There are lots of things that might stop you from running for president or stop you from continuing to run for president. But he has, and also you might be stopped for running for president because you get no traction in the polls whatsoever.

Or you can't, you can't begin to attract the. kind of money that you need to run for president. So at this point, everybody is feeling those variables out. Probably foremost, can you raise the money to do this? And then you take the second step. And is Tucker doing that? Yeah, Tucker is doing that at this point for sure. So we'll have a lineup of people, because obviously Sean Duffy, the Transportation Secretary,

looks like he also wants to run for president. He was a reality television star too. So I was just thinking about the people who've been in television who are going to be running. I wonder, I can't help thinking that Pete Hegsef probably has terrible night terrors. I bet he is a man who does not want to go to sleep at night for fear of what his dreams bring. Yeah, I'm not, I mean, that to me suggests. that he is more self-aware than I suspect he is. I don't know if you have to be particularly self-aware

if your dreams do the work for you. Well, I guess you have to have to have some inner life. Does he have an inner life? Does you think Donald Trump has dreams at night? I don't know. I mean, maybe you're more optimistic about the human condition than I am. I think these guys just don't give him. a shit and they're just wholly hollow people, opportunists, and it's just who's the next body

you have to climb over. I suspect Pete Higgs-eth's alcoholism reflects some kind of deep inner anxieties about what he saw and how he shows up in the world. And the note from his mother, you know, never forget the note from his mother. mother saying he was an abuser of women. That's not a note any son wants to get from his mother. Yeah, no, no. But he didn't wilt in the face of it.

So on top of everything else, it would appear that he is as shameless, well, I was going to say as shameless as his boss, but that would be impossible. But it would seem too that he is. He himself is pretty shameless. Well, I'm not disputing that. we will see if anybody else hangs out their shingle before the midterms. Do we think he'll get fired?

Do we think he'll be eased out? Do we want to make any bets on that? I guess it depends how badly Donald Trump loses the midterms. And as we know, he's not officially on the ballot, but he's told all the Republicans to put him on the ballot. So it will be the loss. he will have to own the loss. And as you say, he's a blamer. He will have to blame someone.

Does Hexeth get the blame very possibly? Or it works the other way that he doesn't acknowledge that in any way he is at fault or the people around him are at fault. He just, he blames, you know, who does he blame? I would blame Congress. I mean, Congress is really good. That's who will be elected or who will not be elected. So if they are not elected, he blames them, not his administration, not himself, his administration or his people.

The only thing about firing Hegset is that both Republicans and Democrats have called for his impeachment. So to actually have Republicans calling for your impeachment when you are the Republican Secretary of Defense doesn't bode well for your future. Yeah, but, you know, this, I mean, the one thing about Donald Trump is that he, well, there are many things about Donald Trump. But I was going to say the one positive thing is that he stands up for his people. But then I realized, well, that's not true at all. But the, a thing about Donald. How could you even say that out loud? Well, yeah, totally.

A thing, a thing about Donald Trump is that he will not, does not, will not, will not bow to anyone else's authority. So if people tell him Hegseth has to go, Hegseth won't go. If he decides Hegseth has to go, well, then Hegseth is, of course, cooked. but Kegseth is protected by the fact that he is so unfit for this job that many people saying he has to go. Therefore, he's protected because Donald Trump won't fire him. The world according to the logic of Donald Trump, as interpreted by four times Trump author Michael Wolf. We will be back on Tuesday, back inside Donald Trump's head. the world will have turned since then.

We'll be that much closer to the midterms. And we will be back in New York. In New York. We will be back in New York. We'll be back in New York in the same studio, which I'm very much looking forward to. Have a great holiday weekend if you're in the States. And if you've been joining us, thank you so much. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcast.

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