The Daily Beast Podcast - This Is The Beginning of the End for Trump: Wolff

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Michael Wolff joins Joanna Coles to examine the one thing Trump can’t spin: a morning of losses he instantly tries to recast as wins. Wolff brings the voices inside the West Wing, describing Trump pacing between TVs, hunting for a villain, mangling the numbers, and turning Mamdani into his next made-to-order enemy. They cut through the chaos—shutdown brinkmanship, Prop 50 conspiracies, the Cuomo curveball, and a GOP leadership frozen in his glare—to reveal a president who can’t adapt, only blame, and a movement suddenly feeling less inevitable than it claims. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I would say that the end of Trump could well happen. That's what happens in American politics. That's one of the great things in American politics. Reversals, landslides, things that you would not dream of happening happen. This has been a horrifying year of Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. But in American politics, that's what happens. This is you think these people are permanent. And it turns out that they are fleeting.

Michael. Joanna. It turns out we are not living in an autocracy after all. At least for a day. At least for a day. But this, I mean, what's going on inside Trump's head after we've got the elections in Virginia, in New Jersey, and of course, Zora Madani in New York City? Yeah, no, I can tell you.

And I was on the phone last night with some white house people. who were not happy campers about this. And they're not happy campers because they've got to manage Trump. Exactly. Yeah, mostly. I would say that that is, that's the clearest sense of this. It's not their personal hour movement is being defeated. It's like, oh, fuck.

The weather's bad. Yeah. And really what it is is bad news is either framed as good news. So, in other words, Mamdani wins. And that's now interpreted within the White House as good news because that becomes the person they can run against. That becomes the leftist, whatever that.

So new conflicts, a new enemy for him. Right. I'm not sure anyone believes that. And I think on any kind of second thought, you would say, and some of them, I'm sure, are about to say this, at least to themselves, that this is, you know, new energy, you know, I mean, the Mam Dani thing really isn't about the rise of leftism. It's about the rise of somebody young and energetic and

photogenic and fun. And optimistic. And optimistic, yes. Interesting, he's not working. His campaign has not been remotely about work. All of those things. A great campaign, a new personality, not good for Trump and the Republicans, but nevertheless, we'll fall back on that leftist, the leftist communist, commie, whatever. Okay, so anyway, that's taking bad news and making it good, but when there is bad news that they can't make good, then it's reinterpreted as the product of a conspiracy.

So the California result, and this is going to be significant because it's going to supercharge other states, states. And now that is, they're already portraying that. And Trump is out there. It's, it's, it's, where the fix was in, its election, the election was stalled. The same old thing. And just to remind people, this was Prop 50 where it allows Californians to redistrict to give the Democrats more seats. Yeah. This is in response to Texas. Texas, Trump ordered the Texas redistricting, which will produce five more seats for Republicans. Right. Right. I mean, gerrymandered district.

that are more likely to produce Republican congressmen. California responded to that in a way to neutralize that. Right. So they will add now five more theoretically safe democratic seats. And then this is going on, of course, all over the country. And tit for tat, maybe tit for tat. We're not sure. I mean, the Republicans are seen more determined about this

and to be able to do it in states where there's a clearer path to getting this done than Democrats. But the effort here is to neutralize. Neutralize the Republicans, go into the midterms with the advantage that the Democrats would naturally have as being the party out of power in an off-year election. We may get to that neutral position or the Republicans may be. be ahead, unclear about that. But from the Trump point of view now, the explanation is stolen conspiracy, the enemies against him, which often means that he will redouble his efforts. It's always with Trump redoubling. It's never backtracking, redoubling, and going after. You know, I would not be at all surprised to see that there were be indictments or investigations.

of what has gone on in California. So just... Speaking for the autocracy that doesn't exist. Right, okay. So just take me through the morning in terms of Trump wakes up. The televisions are still on from the night before,

in my vision of what's going on in his bedroom. He sort of staggers out of his bedroom. We know he's not working out in the morning, which is what often a lot of people do. Oh, I... Who's he talking to? Who's his first... Okay, so I can do some of this. I mean, he will have been up early. He will have been to bed late, up early watching television. So he's going to know exactly what has happened. But he's going to get on the phone with somebody. Somebody, and I'm not, I have known who this person is in the past. That person, I think, is not there now. I know. I know.

was not out there. So I don't know who the first call is, but I know what the first question is. And the first question is what's playing. So he wants to know, he wants someone, he's watched television, but he wants someone else now to explain, to go over rehash the television that he's seen. So this person will say, well, this and that, and they'll go through what the networks are reporting, what Fox is reporting. And then Trump will criticize that or have a commentary on that. And that commentary will supply the script for everyone else. This is his reaction to that. So this is what you have to say, what he wants to be said and what everyone has to say. And is he seeing this as a referendum on him?

I mean, notably, he didn't come out and canvas in Virginia. Yeah, absolutely not. I mean, there is that. So let's make the distinction between what traditional, ordinary, otherwise rational political figures do when faced with the election and what Trump does. Otherwise, rational political figures, look at this. It's always a function of numbers. These are, let's remember, professionals. This is what they do.

do for a living. And the numbers then tell them if they have severe problems or how they can begin to triangulate those problems. And in most instances, it's like, how can we, okay, we've, we've seen where the electorate in these particular places is going. And that's going against us. But so how can we move strategically and incrementally toward the positions that voters seem to favor here to at least, at least if not to win over those people, hold enough of a margin among that group to give us the advantage with our own, you know, essentially as I'm saying, you know, it's math. It's math. Okay. I saw one very funny line on X as I was coming in saying, this feels as good as the weekend when he disappeared and everybody thought he was dead. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't go, you know, I mean, he'll be back. He'll be back. But in contrast, but just let me, that in contrast, Trump does not look at election and numbers like that. First thing, he's enumerate. You cannot talk to him about numbers. He doesn't get them.

He manipulates. He just exaggerates them. They are what he wants them to be. Well, as Jeffrey Epstein said, he couldn't read a balance. Exactly. So you have that. But then he goes the other way. So rational politicians say, okay, how can we move toward this position? The Trump position, on the other hand, is how can we move away from that? In other words, let's double down on what we are, who we are, and what Trump believes has. worked for him in the past. Okay, so we can't go home yet. Our job is not yet done. It is not by a long shot and it will also remember Trump's gift, his preternatural gift, that he will change this subject by tomorrow. Tomorrow. I did think it was interesting that the two people he came out to endorse Jack Cittarelli in New Jersey and oddly Andrew Cuomo, the former Democratic governor in New York,

his endorsements meant nothing. The New Jersey endorsement he had to do in New Jersey went the way, yes, New Jersey was, one could have guessed that it would go. To Mikey Cheryl. Now, the Cuomo thing is more interesting because obviously Cuomo was not going to win, but he is, Trump is setting that up, setting Mamdani up to be his enemy. So therefore, the enemy of my enemy, Cuomo is my friend. Ooh, so confusing. You know, because there's no, I mean, for Trump to be bonding with Cuomo, an old style,

Democrat, that doesn't make any sense except insofar as setting him up. setting it to be Trump against Mumdani. Not Cuomo against Mumdani, Trump against him. It's also fascinating how people can go from riding so high in public life to not. So you have Andrew Cuomo and the whole when Ellen DeGeneres was running around saying, I'm a quomosexual when he was giving his daily press conferences during COVID, to him losing to a 34-year-old guy who nobody had heard. heard of nine months ago.

Well, let's look at that in the context of that we are not today in an autocracy and of a measure of optimism, which is that, you know, we've just spent a year since last election day with Trump as this omnipotent figure in politics. And while I would not say that today spells in any way the end of Trump, I would say, that the end of Trump could well happen. That's what happens in American politics. That's one of the great things in American politics. Reversals, landslides, things that you would not dream of happening happen.

And I think that once, you know, I mean, this has been a horrifying year of Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, without any sense that anyone could stand in his way. But in American politics, that's what happens. This is you think these people are permanent. And it turns out that they are fleeting. Well, and every person... I mean, I say this after 10 years of writing about Donald Trump, so it's not so fleeting.

But there's a sort of glimmer this morning which... I mean, everybody I've had a small exchange with in the coffee, shop in the Uber on the way here, the guys on the security desk, everybody feeling optimistic about a sense of the Democrats aren't entirely over yet. There is some resistance. Well, let me just caution. It's more opposition. Yeah, and I'll just caution today. Tomorrow, when we invade Venezuela, it will be another story. Okay, well, we need to come on to that because there are shades of the Falklands there. And, and, leave, is doing what they always do when things are tough at home, which is they lean abroad. And as we're

recording this, it's day 35 of the shutdown. The Supreme Court is hearing the... Today makes it the longest shutdown in history. Since the last one, which was also under Donald Trump. But we know people aren't getting their SNAP benefits in many states. We know that people's... And you know this, because you're on Obamacare, we know that people's premiums are beginning to double. some cases triple. So this is all building. And if you're... It gives me no pleasure to say that I am on Medicare.

Oh, you're on Medicare. Okay. But I, but your family's on Obama care, right? So you're... But if I were, I mean, look at Marjorie Taylor Green, who's been sort of ringing the bell. I mean, hard to think of her as anything other than a sort of crazy MAGA person, but she's been right on Epstein and she's been right on...

have to do something about these premiums because she's seeing it affected in her and it's more interesting to see her as someone who who knows which way the wind is blowing. So I mean let's not credit her with any kind of human sensitivity because I think that would be a bridge

too far. But where the wind blows is you know I think if it is blowing against Trump that's an interesting. she is an interesting sign. And also, you know, Trump has been saying consistently over the last five days, let's get rid of the filibuster. The filibuster, meaning we shouldn't need 60 votes in the Senate to get legislation through. And the resistance he's getting is from his own people. John Thune,

leader of the Senate, is saying this isn't going to happen. It is not going to happen. But what that also sets Trump up for is to blame someone else. So Trump does it. I mean, I never want to say Trump knows anything because he knows nothing. But someone would have, however gently told him that there is no chance that the Republican leadership are going to countenance getting rid of the filibuster. But that doesn't really matter, and that's not really his point. The real point is blame. And that's always, as Trump surveys the world, it's who can I blame, who can I make the enemy? who can I lay this on?

So who is he blaming for the shutdown right now? And how does the shutdown resolve? And a word from our sponsors. And we're back after a word from our sponsors. Well, he's clearly blaming the Democrats on this. But if the Democrats, if the Democrats managed to come out of this looking good, then he will blame the Republicans for failing, to

get rid of the filibuster and hence failing to open up the government. Just as long as he is not

the one who is blamed. So Mike Johnson and John Thune will get the blame. We have to do an episode on Mike Johnson

because Mike Johnson's denials of knowing anything that's going on in Trump's life is at this point sort of a farce. No, no.

I think he's a totally you know, interesting novelist. character. He's got a Uriah Heap's quality. I was going to say Dickensian character. He's like, oh, Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, what more can I do? And every time he's asked about something to do with Donald Trump, he pretends he doesn't know. So he was asked, you know, how come Donald Trump didn't know who he'd pardoned around CZ, the finance founder? And he was like, oh, I don't know. I haven't seen the interview. You can bet he's watched every minute of that interview. No, no, and the guy looks. I mean, he looks like always a deer in the headlights. He always looks like I would rather be anywhere else but here.

And yet there he is. There he is. You know, a job is a job. A job is a job. And also they're all there, right? They're all sitting around the table there. They could have said no, and they're all supporting him. No, well, remember, and it's very important because people are always saying to me, because I speak to these people. And many of these people I like and people reasonably say, but how can you like them because they work for Donald Trump? And I say because they're intelligent, well, not intelligent enough to leave and not moral enough to leave, which is all true. but what nobody is quite seen here is how trapped you get in this in this in in your career as a Republican. I mean, you think this is what I do. I am a Republican operative. I work for Republicans. I don't know how to do anything else. And there is no option here. The Republican Party is the Trump party. So you either have to make that decision. to leave your career and identity and livelihood behind. And or this is the table you sit at and there is no other.

Well, I mean, and no more, and that affects no one more than J.D. Vance, right? I mean, so many comments, literally thousands of comments on our conversation about J.D. Vance. A lot of people, I would. like to point out supporting my point of view that Ushavans looks thoroughly miserable and thin and depressed in the photographs. Free Usha. Free Usha. Hashtag free Usha.

But J.D. Vance couldn't have envisaged when he first got into politics that this would be quite where he would end up. No, and nor could his wife, I'm sure. I mean, but J.D. Vance is on, you know, a, you know, a. a Trump opportunist on steroids, which you can kind of literally see and perhaps understand. I mean, never in modern politics has there been a rise like this as fast and as high. And for someone who comes from, I mean, he shouldn't be where he is. I mean, he started out, let's remember and came to notice.

variety as a writer. He'll be lealogy. Yes, as a, you know, looking at a career as a public intellectual. And let me make another point here, which is really important. He's a good writer. So he's an intelligent guy, quite a nuanced thinker. Certainly he has written the best political book of any politician. In fact, I think the last...

Well, hold on. There's Obama's book. Well, I'm just going to say. The last book that seemed to rise above this, that threshold of a politician's book, was Obama's dreams of my father. Okay. The Vance book is head and shoulders above that. You know, it is the book. I mean, Obama's book was still that of a politician. I'm, you know, an articulate, intelligent politician writing his own book. that was all, you know, and, you know, kudos to all of that, of course. But it wasn't a writer's book.

The Vance book is a writer's book. It is the book of a man who would have otherwise gone on to be a public intellectual, someone who's in the conversation and parsing it. And, you know, I think when you read that book, you would not have said he was necessarily a conservative or a liberal. I mean, he was someone who was trying to come to grips with himself and with the problem. And it could have run as a sort of right-wing Democrat. He certainly could have run as a Democrat.

Could have run as any kind of Democrat. And if he wanted to be a politician, that's already the leap. You know, writers don't run for office. Unless someone would like to convince me otherwise. Michael Wolf 2028. But so he could have run as a Democrat, but he runs as a conservative because of Peter Thiel, because just surveying the opportunities run as a Democrat or run as a conservative

with the backing of someone who has unlimited funds and unlimited ambition. And in Ohio. And in Ohio, yes. So I think that, so none of that makes, makes any plausible sense, really, in terms of, in terms of the way you lay out a career. And in fact, he gets to be the senator from Ohio because Teal makes a deal with Trump. And, you know, for a rumored $10 million contract. And then the other rumor is they agreed on this and then he didn't he didn't put up the money. But that's interesting.

So he's playing Trump at his own game. Exactly. Teal does a deal with Trump. And that secures Vance Trump's endorsement. And prior to this, remember, Vance is calling Trump Hitler. So he's kind of before this moment, a moment that begins to look like a moment of death. destiny, he is at best, you know, I mean, kind of hedging his bets or he's being clear-eyed. You know, there is no way that a person advances intelligent, the way the writer of Hillbilly Elegy could look at

Trump and see a man of reason who might be able to get into the nitty-gritty of these very, very, very complicated problems. And then on top of that, Trump's rhetoric. So Vance dismisses him as Hitler, which is quite a dismissal. And quite a thing to bounce back from. Yeah, but in short, in short order, the deal is done. Trump will endorse you for the Senate in Ohio, meaning that you suddenly, you who have no experience whatsoever, suddenly have a very reasonable chance of becoming a United States Senator. And then, of course, you know, and that's in 2022. And then in 2024, he's the vice presidential choice. So again, this is this is a career that nobody could have anticipated, meteoric, just unprecedented. Can you just please remind people of that great story?

It's in one of your books when you go to, I think, the 2016 RNC conference and Peter Teal is speaking there for the first time. I remember you, calling me and saying, oh my God, you can't imagine what this conference is like. And then you described sitting behind two elderly ladies as they were watching Peter Thiel. And they were both hard of hearing. And in those halls, for people who haven't been, it's often very difficult to actually hear what people are saying because the sound reverberates around those stadiums. And they kept one, one said to the other, did he say he was, what did he say?

Did he say he was gay? And the other one, he's gay? I just love that story because the whole point of him being there was, I think, to... Yeah, and then it was like, who is that? And on these, you know, in all conventions, especially out of prime time, you actually don't know who anyone is. Right. And Peter Thiel, at that point, you did not know. I mean, he was Don Jr.'s friend.

That was why he's there. Didn't he say, I am a gay American? Yes, yes, no, and that was it. I can hear them still, still, what did he say? He said he is gay. He said he's gay? He's gay? Yeah, and as if, and then wasn't there someone sitting behind you? I remember the question.

Yes, no, no, I remember getting this call from it. Yes, no, I mean, the most telling moment, it's actually, everything, everything that has come sort of was foreshadowed at this moment where, you know, I mean, that convention in Cleveland was incredibly weird and dark. And the people in the audience were, we're not people. you thought of in the audience at a political convention. Anyway, I'm sitting there, and there's a guy behind me who is making MAGA noises, hooting. I'm not even sure the word MAGA was yet in currency, but he was a MAGA guy and loud. And I think I must just have sort of swiveled around, just caught, I didn't know, all this raucous, just to look what was going on.

And then he said, what's the matter? Does your pussy hurt? I thought, okay, here we are. Anyway, is it possible it's time for our new regular segment? Ask Melania. Several questions. I'm going to read the top few. Question to Melania, did she ever receive money, loans,

or any financial support from Jeffrey Epstein? Well, it's a great... How did we get this far without talking about Jeffrey Epstein, by the way? Also, I have an apology to make, which is that I said wrongly that Prince Andrew was going to be enjoying the grouse mares of Norfolk. I don't know why I said that because I know full well there are no moors in Norfolk. Jesus, you've gotten it. You have gotten everything wrong about Andrews. I've been away too long, and so I've got half memories of it.

In fact, as many people pointed out, thank you for pointing out, the shooting in Sandringham is pheasant. it's not grouse. And I think a bit of partridge and possibly duck, but for posh people who know about shooting in Norfolk, please let us know. Have you ever been shooting? I have, but not in Norfolk. And a few people objected to me saying Norfolk was a god-forsaken place.

That's only because I just remember the weather there as being terrible. And as I said, I once went there and was impressed. Yeah, you liked it. And there are beautiful parts of it. Beaches are lovely, the Norfolk Broad's and ice, I wake up in New York and it's sunshine every day, even when it's cold. I just remember the cold, gray, dampness. Well, and that's why you stayed in New York.

Why I stayed in New York. And to be fair, there is one week in June in Norfolk when it's very warm and it's beautiful and you think this is fantastic and then it dissipates. And now Prince Andrew will be there. And the man formerly known as Prince. And in fact, local people have started protesting and saying, we don't want him here. Yeah. So that presents the king with another problem.

Yeah, it wasn't... And a lot of people are saying, why is the prince in England gone down over this Jeffrey Epstein thing? And yet men in America haven't yet. Well, many men in America have gone down over Jeffrey Epstein, one after another after another. The only, the one, the glaring example of someone who has not gone down is, is Donald Trump.

But I would make the point that there is a difference between a prince and a king. No kings. And a toss to our sponsors who we greatly appreciate. We do greatly appreciate our sponsors. Question for Melania, which she might not answer since no consequence

to the lawsuit perhaps, but would she like to see Barron pursue politics or not and why? I have no insolence. insight that into that, except that I would, I would guess not. I mean, I don't think, I mean, she has not found this political adventure personally, well, certainly not personally satisfying. And I think maybe personally she's found it kind of revolting often. Revolting. Well, we know she doesn't like doing the Christmas arrangements. Ask Maloney.

Alanya, who first suggested she applied for an Einstein visa? And what is her experience and justification for receiving it as such? I would also like to ask her, what if any likeness she sees in her son to his father? And that's from Stephanie Ann. Okay, we'll put it on the list, but I can't help thinking of when I think of the Einstein visa as the Epstein visa. mischievous. Mistievous. Okay.

One thing that struck me, and this is from Miko Glenn, one thing that struck me about the inauguration in 2016, the look on Melania's face during the whole ceremony. What was she thinking? I think he's thinking of that video when she's wearing the blue Ralph Lauren dress and hat, and she smiles when Trump turns around to her. And then she looks away and she just looks furious and miserable. I mean, I have some background on this because actually my book, Fire and Fury. opens with this scene, the scene on election night, and where, I mean, she had been very resistant to the whole, to running for president, and then panicked when he got the nomination as election day approached, and he kept assuring her there is no possible way that I am going to

become the president of the United States. This is not going to happen. And then it happened, surprising him as much as anyone. Yeah, he seemed incredulous. Anyone else. But also she, it reduced her to tears. And these were not tears of happiness. So strange. So strange.

PIN 1,000 asks. Questions for Melania. Where did she learn her French, German, Italian? What were her teacher's names? I detect some sarcasm in that question because our first lady is supposed to speak five languages, but nobody's heard her speak them. Hilarious. All right.

One more. Melania, question. What's the story behind the green coat? Asked Mary Hale. I think that must be the green coat where she says on the back. I think it was from Zara. I don't really care. Right.

Good question. I will ask. Yeah. What does it mean? What does it mean? What does it mean? You can ask anything you like, right? All right.

What else? I should say in reference to Melania and this lawsuit, and also in reference to last night's election, that this lawsuit is going to be expensive. And I started just yesterday a go fund me. You've finally been approved because I think you were worried at some point because it kept saying under review, right? Right. So, you know, but yesterday I got an email that it had been approved. So that was like, okay, that's great. And actually the day before I had just gotten the first bill from my lawyers. And, you know, when you get bills from lawyers, you think in your head, well, this is not going to be good.

And then you get the bill and it's ten times worse. But at any rate, and this is kind of astounding, and I think it goes to, this is not about, This is definitely not about me. It's about, I think, a need for people to do something. And, you know, I think that goes from showing up at No Kings to voting yesterday. Record turnout in New York. They haven't seen anything like it since the 60s. Extraordinary.

So, but this GoFundMe page of mine, which is the express purpose of pursuing a suit against Melania Trump, getting her to have to testify under oath and getting Donald Trump to have to testify under oath and to answer the fundamental questions about their relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. So in 24 hours, it has this GoFundMe page has raised almost half a million dollars. And is this small donations from hundreds of people? Hunt more. Thousands of people. All, you know, $6, $25. You kind of watch the ticker there. Do you want to announce that you're going to run for 2028? Is this the beginning of your campaign? No, it is not. But maybe I'll continue to sue everybody.

Well, just as long as you don't sue me. All right. I'm going to read a limerick. We've got people who have, found the podcast sufficiently inspiring that they write poems, they write limericks, and I've actually had some AI songs written about me that people send, which thank you for doing that. I'm going to... What about me? Do I get a song? You get more comments on your wardrobe than I do.

So I'm very intrigued to know what people are going to say about this Irish-type cardigan that you're wearing. I'm not sure if people can see the detail of the coloured flex here, but it's very pretty, rainbow GoFlex. There once was a wing draped in gloom, dubbed the Epstein ballroom. With crypto and crime. No, you got it wrong. What? Dubbed the Epstein Ballroom of Doom. Okay. Oh, I'm going to start again. The once was a wing draped in gloom, dubbed the Epstein ballroom of doom. With crypto and crime and polls in decline, Trump's kingdom careened toward its tomb. And that is from Garfried. Not bad Garfried. It's fantastic.

It's got 300 likes and 16 replies, which is really pretty good. Keep them coming. From your pen to God's ears. Okay. Final point from Marla S. I agree with Michael Wolf that J.D. Vance is a cynical, shape-shifting politician. He is more dangerous than Trump in his way, a still young man willingly to sell his soul. for power and position, not very Christian at all. And I completely agree with that, but I want to make a point, which I think is an important one and resonant in yesterday's election, which is that Donald Trump remains exceptionally popular. The hold he has over people is something that history will have to explain. We don't know.

We don't know except that it is real and compelling and, and manages to, well, it's been 10 years now. The junior Trumpers, the minions, the people who would be Trump, are unfailingly unpopular. Interesting. And I think you can see this in J.D. Vance. He's trying to do everything he can to grab this Trump mantle. But I think, I mean, I find him, and I think a lot of people find him unsympathetic. Well, and craven, just craven. So it may be that Trump seems real.

I mean, the guy who has told more lies than anyone. in the history of dissembling yet seems real. All these other people are transparently false. And what we have, I mean, I feel like there's been one conversation that's dominated the last few months, which is, are we actually living in an autocracy? Is this what it feels like? And I think today we can say resoundingly, at least for today,

No, it's not. We're not living in an autocracy. For today, and I will see you on Saturday. No, you're going to see me later tonight. We've got our event. Don't tell me you've forgotten. I don't want to end up there on my own without you. No, I was trying to juggle.

Oh, that's embarrassing. That would be weird if I was just sitting there and I had an empty chair, like Clint Eastwood did during the RNC when he was trying to do his whole. whole thing about Obama and it fell very flat. Do you remember? He was talking to a chair. No, I mean, I do remember. You don't remember Clint. It was a very strange moment. I do, but I can't remember the context for that moment. Isn't Clint Eastwood now like a hundred? He is still alive, isn't he? Yeah. It was his wife who died. All these older men with much younger wives who are dying. It's very strange. Happened to Gene Hackman, too. His wife died first.

She was much younger than him. Clint Eastwood's wife much younger. I'm not going to go there. my wife is much younger. Oh, yeah. Stressful being a younger wife. Anyway, I will see you tonight at the Museum of the City of New York, where we are doing our first event live. It's sold out happily. I hope everybody turns up.

And we'll be back on Saturday. Fantastic. Great. Okay, do you want to read us out? Tell people to subscribe. Let's do our little shenanigans at the end. We would love it if you would subscribe to, I'm just unclear what we actually subscribe to. Well, you subscribe to the podcast, you subscribe to the Daily Beast,

and you become a member of our YouTube community, and then you get lots of extra content. It would be fantastic if you did all of those things. And don't forget, wherever our First Lady is, Be Beast. And here's a shout out to our Be Beast tier of membership. Herbie, Andrew Meller, Sandra Clark. Bonzo, Val Love Francisco, Bocock, D.C., Heidi Riley, Karen White, Connie Rutherford, Andrea Hodel, and Sharon Shipley. Thank you. And to boot, thank you, Devin, Anna, Jesse.

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