The Daily Beast Podcast - This Is The Dark Reason Trump Terrified Graham

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles dig into the political fallout from the sudden death of Lindsey Graham, revealing what Trump was really thinking behind his public tributes, how Truth Social posts are crafted inside his inner circle, and why Graham's complicated relationship with the president was driven as much by fear and access as loyalty. They also dissect the growing speculation surrounding Mitch McConnell's health, Trump's increasingly inescapable Middle East conflict despite his promise to avoid forever wars, and why Michael believes the president is trapped by his own inability to change course. Finally, they turn to an unexpected force reshaping the Democratic Party, making the case that Bernie Sanders may have had a far greater impact on American politics than even his critics are willing to admit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I felt very clearly he was afraid of Donald Trump. I don't think that there's anybody in Washington at any informed level who was not aware that Lindsey Graham was gay, but Lindsey Graham was also in the closet. What did that mean to Donald Trump? I'm not sure that it meant anything more to Donald Trump than he had something on Lindsay. Lindsay Graham was an absolute suckup. He decided that this was how he was going to play this. Sucking up was the basic price of admission.

It was the entire thing. That was what you had to do in order to get more access, in order to sustain access. It was just a question of how much sucking you were willing to do. Michael. Joanna. Why are we being quiet this morning? Because...

Death, because of death. Because of death. Okay, so the slush fund, big... slap in the face for Trump from the Miami judge. Mitch McConnell, dead or alive, hostage videos. Lindsay Graham, definitely. Dead. And has, I guess my first question for you inside Trump's head, which is where we go three times a week to poke around and see what's left in there, is, well, let me read the truth

social that Donald Trump put out on Sunday. Well, maybe it was Saturday night. Senator Lindsay Graham, one of the greatest people and senators I have ever known, is dead. He was always working and was a true American patriot. Lindsay will be greatly missed. Three exclamation points. Details and arrangements to follow. So sad. Single exclamation point. Is it possible that Donald Trump is actually sad about Well, let me, I think my answer to that would be involves the setup to this, to how a truth, one of these posts gets done. And this is a definitely, I will guarantee this. It's a Trump saying, Natalie, we need a post on Lindsay. That's it.

So that's the sentiment here. Okay, this is interesting because I had an argument with someone over the weekend about this. And I said, why can't we have a president that just puts out something that feels solemn and slightly formal? And he was like, you've missed the point. This is how people talk. This is why people love Donald Trump. Well, yeah. And it's a sort of a double point here.

He gets this because they know the staff, Natalie particularly, knows that they have to write in Donald Trump's voice. But surely this isn't Donald Trump's voice with three exclamation points. It feels like a teenage girl. It feels like now. Natalie Harp's voice? It is Donald, well, Natalie Harp's voice and Donald Trump's voice intersect at some point. Right. Because she does, I'd say she does, the overwhelming number of posts are from Natalie.

I mean, there are a lot of the posts that are from him. But I'd say, because considering how many posts there are, I'd say she does three quarters of the post. So she's the social media whiz behind him. What's interesting is how few people are on truth social. I mean, obviously his truth socials get picked up, but it's amazing how he'll post something like this and there's 4,000 likes. I mean, we've discussed this before.

I mean, this was a constant theme during the campaign because he would post in this obsessive, crazy, pathological fashion. and the staff would say, oh my God, thank God he's not on X or Twitter. Oh, interesting because nobody sees it. They would say, thank God no one sees this. Right, except they do see it. Now, no, actually, they don't. There are so many.

So all we see is those few that actually surface in the media. Otherwise, you can't, first thing, you can't keep up with them. Right. And secondly, the entire media would be nothing, Donald Trump's posts otherwise. Well, you can clearly see who's got inside his head over the weekend because there was a post of John Ossoff looking like, well, it said Pee Wee Herman. And then there's a picture of Pee We Herman and John Ossoff.

And then there was a picture of Alfred E. Newman on the cover of Mad next to James Tallerica with one of his teeth blacked out. Okay, that's Natalie. Okay, that's Natalie. I mean, she's the art. Donald Trump doesn't do art. Right. So when he's posting. himself as Jesus, that's Natalie, is it?

Totally Natalie, yes. Right. Interesting. And then the other thing, and it's interesting, I want to come back to the question of whether Donald Trump is upset about the death of his friend, Lindsay Graham. He's golfed over 150 times. He has a lot of dead golfing buddies. But those forcums, it's just, you know.

There's always one person that's not able to come. That's a very, very curb your enthusiasm line. But the, so this idea that Lindsay Graham's sister is going to replace him in the, Darlene in the Senate, you know, basically take up his stub term. And then the, so I think that we're explaining that. That is being explained as Donald Trump posted a truth social about this. and that's why it happened. That's not why it happened.

Why did it happen? Well, it's, first thing, it always happens. Nobody wants to have, have, have, nobody wants, nobody wants, nobody wants a, um, the, the process of calling a special election takes X amount of time. They want somebody who will cast the reliable vote. Well, they want someone in the confirmation hearings this week who's going to vote for Todd Blanche. Yeah, exactly.

So they do this. So that's the. And it's also a kind of a tip of the hat thing. Everybody likes this. The voters in South Carolina. It's a death thing. It's a death thing. I think it's remarkable that so many, I mean, I was looking it up.

I think 38 widows have followed their husbands into their seats in the house and then eight senators. You know, it's a commonplace thing. There's actually even there is a West. episode. There is. About this. Okay, I just want you to know that were you to have a crash on the jitney and to sadly be no longer with us, which I hope doesn't happen, I'm not going to be calling your sister. I like your sister very much. I've met her. I don't think that she would be as good as you are at going inside Trump's head. You would call my wife in a heartbeat and she would fill in and no one would remember me. Yes, okay, Victoria, we have a plan B should something happen.

to Michael. But the more, this is, this is more about, not about that custom, which is a weird custom, you're absolutely right, but it is a totally weird custom. It's the epitome of NEPO or NEPO. Is it NEPO or NEPO? It is NEPO, but yeah, I'm not sure it's not, because it's not really, nobody is really getting anything. It's just literally you're a placeholder. Give me the family. It's a political tip of the hat. It probably, actually, actually, doesn't happen if the if the if the particular whoever dies is a hated person in the state and they probably then they probably do something else but you know names in politics are are a big deal. Brands, brand names. So but this idea that this is that this is that this came

from him. I mean I just want to I think it's important to understand these truth social and And these truth social posts are essentially a major tool of this administration of Donald Trump. This is all lobbying. People call him. They're online. Can he do a truth social post about this? Can he do a truth social post about that? We need this.

We can't get this through. We can't get this on the media agenda unless he does this. I myself have gotten truth social posts about myself. I've gotten Donald Trump to say terrible things about me because it helps sell books. You've got Donald Trump to say terrible things about you because it sells books. So you've said, I need you to tweet about my book. I need you to truth social about my books. Yes, I wouldn't.

It would be more complicated than that. I will go to someone I know in the White House who then will do me a favor and then will suggest to Trump that, you know, I'm a terrible person. So, for example, with your first book. So this is all everybody in the, so remember this, this is all, everybody is kind of, there's an act of manipulation going on. Right. So everybody's working it at all times.

So for example, with your first book when I think he asked for an injunction, didn't he? Yes. That was legitimate. I mean, it was not legitimate, but that was spontaneous. Okay, that was spontaneous. But otherwise, you've just been hustling the president like everybody else. Yes, of course. I mean, there's a few others that he's just, he's expressed genuine ire.

But otherwise, it's people calling, you know, somebody calling me, I mean, there's one person from the White House who I remember there was a particular post about me. and then this and then this and then this um then the person in the white house called me said you owe me interesting so so can we just get back to my first question please is donald trump sad is he impacted emotionally psychologically by the sudden death of someone who does appear to have been a friend or at least a golfing buddy over 150 games um is he is he impacted emotional and psychologically by Lindsay Graham Darring. I mean, the man was nine years younger than Donald Trump. Yes, I mean, I wouldn't go, he's not breaking down about it.

But, but, but, I mean, I think so, yeah. I mean, I, you know, yes, he's a golfing buddy. I think, I think every, he's lost literally, it's true, he has lost a lot of, a lot of foursome members. And it does, you know, I'm sure it does affect him. somewhat. But, you know, he's the president of the United States. I mean, let's not even see this exactly in a Donald Trump context.

He's the president of the United States. He's dealing with lots and lots and lots of people in a professional capacity at all times. So how much, yeah, I'm sure he's. But wasn't Lindsay someone who was very useful? he was carrying information back and forth. Yeah, but that becomes a political setback. Yes, I'm sure that he sees this as a political inconvenience. Right.

So you knew Lindsay Graham thoughts. I liked Lindsay Graham. I mean, I liked him, you know, a great deal, actually. Now, I think I would say that about anyone who, who talks to me in a relatively unvarnished way. So you have a kind of relationship with sources that develop over, you know, how open are you going to be with me? How, it's not only how open, but how informative.

You know, you speak to a lot of people. You call up a lot of people and what your, and then you get the same old stuff. You didn't really even have to speak to them. You could have just imagined what they would say. Lindsay Graham, you would, I would speak to him. And then he would say something interesting, something funny, something, you know, a slight turn on what you're asking about. Oh, I hadn't thought about that.

And he would do it. He had the ability, you know, and he didn't really know me. We didn't know each other very well. but he had the ability to kind of create that kind of that kind of rapport. And he was, I think, I think it was, and I think this is an important. He was a source for your books, is that what you're saying? Yes, he was a source, but in fact, I think he was everybody's source. Right.

I mean, I've often thought that in Washington there are only five sources, and they are the five sources for everybody. They're just people who decide to talk. There are people who decide to talk. There are people who like to talk. There are people who see an advantage in having their story, their version, being being top of mind. There was a Woodward and Bernstein story about, you know, deep throat. And it came out that deep throat was they identified him as Mark Felt, who was, I think, an assistant

director of the FBI. But the truth is, Mark Felt was everybody's source during Watergate. So that was a kind of one of those interesting constructs. I mean, we've given him a name and he's deep throat and parking lots and all that. But everybody, Mark felt talk to everybody during that period. Okay, so Lindsay Graham was a source of some of the stories about Trump. Did Trump know and mind? I don't know.

You know, that's an interesting question, and I don't know the answer. And remember, Lindsay Graham, it wasn't as if he was necessarily dissing. the president. I mean, he was giving a, I would describe it as giving a full picture. He had a sense of the contradictions going on there. He had a sense of the game, of playing the Trump game. And I would say two things about Lindsay. There were two ways of looking at this, that here was a guy clearly who enjoyed playing the game. He was a guy who clearly understood the game. Here was a guy who very much he was willing to be Trump's caddy if it got him what he wanted. That was the game. So I put that on one side. The other side is I felt I felt very clearly he was afraid of Donald

Trump. Go on. And he would talk about this about Trump was a, you know, I remember, remember once he described Trump in animal terms, he's like, you know, you don't know, I mean, it's like a wild animal. You don't know if he'll turn on you. Like the bison in Yellowstone that just tossed that poor grandfather in the air. Donald Trump kind of looks like a bison. Yes, we've always said he looks like a bison. Right. But I felt that. I felt that that was that he understood that he was playing with fire. He understood that Donald Trump could, was a very volatile presence who could, who could, if he was unhappy with you, he would take it out on you. And, you know, behind this, there, there was this thing. So Lindsay Graham was by, you know,

I don't think there's anyone, there was no question of, there. There didn't. There didn't. I don't think that there's anybody in Washington at any informed level who was not aware that Lindsay Graham was gay, but Lindsay Graham was also in the closet. So, you know, he's 71. And when he said he was gay, did he have relationships? Did he have lovers? Or was he gay but didn't act on it? No, I think he probably had relationship.

I don't know. But certainly that was the, that was always the discussion. So there was always the thing and within this was also a discussion within the within the Trump circle. So this was very known and what would what did that mean to Donald Trump? You know, I'm not I'm not sure that it meant anything more to Donald Trump than he had something on Wednesday. And the thing that you're saying he had on him was that he was yeah. I think that there was, yeah.

I mean, again, this is, this is, Lindsay Graham never, never, he never said, I'm gay and Donald Trump is going to, you know, if I'm going to use it again. Yeah, if I don't suck up to Donald Trump, I'm screwed. Never, of course, never anything like that. But again, that sense of, of Donald Trump as this, as this unknown, a constant variable. What is he going to do? This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us.

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Of course. Or certainly when he first got elected, obviously less so now, but representing South Carolina. Yeah, no. And even now, I think it's, you know, I mean, 71 years old and you haven't fessed up to this. Yeah. I mean, I think...

Now, Lindsay Graham obviously, also knew the game. You know, people are, this is politics, this is power at a very high level if you're, if people will do anything to you. Nothing is off limits in this context. Well, and you will also do anything, right? So he would swap 180, I mean, what was it? Donald Trump said 40 minutes after Lindsay Graham said January the 6th is enough. Enough is enough. I'm out. 40 minutes later, he called Donald Trump and said, oh, that wasn't me. I didn't really mean it. I don't know why I said that. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. And we shouldn't. I mean, Lindsay Graham was an absolute suckup.

He decided that this was how he was going to play this, how he had to play this, how he, how, how, how, to what advantage it would be to play it this way. An absolute suckup. I mean, an embarrassing suck up. And people within the Trump circle would, would joke about this. you know, if you needed somebody to reassure the president, you call Lindsay, Lindsay coves and tells the president, you know. So you're fantastic. Yeah. Right. And also it got him what he wanted, which is proximity to power.

I mean, it's such a, it's so evident. It was so open, his constant changing of positions, that this is what you had to do to get proximity to power to Trump. Yeah, no, and I think it makes the point, the more you suck up. So sucking up was not just the price of, you know, the basic price of admission. It was the entire thing. That was what you had to do in order to get more access, in order to sustain access, in order to, for your access to be greater than anyone else's, it was just a question of how much

sucking you were willing to do. But we've also discussed how Trump doesn't like, Trump wants people to suck up, but he also despises people who suffer. It's very complicated. It's a complicated thing, how to do that. And I often think that that was, that was why Lindsay and, and so many others then would have a parallel life talking about Donald Trump. I was just going to say, right, that the way that you offset the suck uppery and the shame of the suck-upery is that you then try and tell truths about Donald Trump. No, no. And undermine him in a different way.

But it's very, you know, I mean, this is not, so it's not, understand this. It's not just, oh, all I have to do is suck up to Donald Trump and then I get what I want. And that's just, that's basic and easy. It's very difficult because you have to suck up to Donald Trump at the same time he's showing contempt for you sucking up. So how do you navigate that without killing yourself? And did Lindsay Graham? Maybe he did. Maybe. I don't think he did. I think it was an aortic schism. No, but if we say he might have, we just sort of, you know, that'll be conspiracy clicks. Right. A whole new business. A whole new business. So before we go on to the the ultimate

conspiracy going on right now, which is Mitch McConnell. Did Lindsay Graham like Donald Trump? Was he a necessary evil for Lindsay to get as close to power as he could? And maybe Donald Trump was a person that gave him. I mean, I don't think really like is a consideration in this context. He's the president of the United States. He's capable of giving you anything that you want, of extending you power beyond your wildest dreams.

No. So you don't really think in terms of liking. And if you were forced to think in terms of liking, no, you would say, no, this guy's a monster. And do you think he will get his Russia sanctions? Reward in heaven? No, I wasn't going to say that. I was going to say, do you think he will be able to get his Russian sanctions bill through? I mean, that was his plan for the week.

Yeah, well, death is often, often helps you in these. things. Yeah, people, it's another death tip. We have to give this for the memory of Lindsay. So, Darlene will step in for Lindsay and she and Richard Blumenthal from, Senator from Connecticut, who is working on it with him, we'll get it through. I'd say there's a good chance, yeah. Okay, so next question, given the nepo, the nepo nature of American policy. politics, should Elaine Chow just step in for Mitch McConnell at this point? No, well, he has to be dead. Well, does he have to be dead or couldn't he just step aside?

I mean, he doesn't seem to be speaking. That's the weird thing. Why didn't they just release a video? Everybody has a cell phone. It's very straightforward. The photo reopens the conspiracy. Yeah, there is no conspiracy. This is only a conspiracy that you and others have created.

I haven't created this. Laura Luma. This is, this is, yeah, and this is the click conspiracy. Let's go to something that's probably much more basic here. The guy is in terrible shape. He's at the absolute end of his career. Nobody wants to say to him now put this on him at this point. You're out.

You're in such bad shape. I think that this is just a kind of a courtesy. moment, which his family especially is observing. And they're saying, we don't care about this. We don't care what people say. Our only concerned is this guy is suffering. He's had a long career. He doesn't deserve this.

And we are trying with as much dignity as possible, and there isn't much, letting this run its course. And we don't care about Trump, and we really hate actually. and we're not really thinking, we're not really thinking about, about the Senate, we're not thinking about about the business of the Senate or the business of the country. We're just thinking about, you know, Mitch, our husband or father or whatever. But that's, his team is actually putting out statements saying Mitch is very much engaged. He's, you know, we're having discussions about Iran, which we're going to come on to in a minute.

Yeah, well, yeah, he's probably there's. some, on some basis. He can speak. Yeah. Well, I think that he can, he can probably listen and probably is somewhat responsive. Yeah. I mean, I think he's, he's a quite a, he's, he's in bad shape. He has been in bad shape for a long time.

So this is, doesn't, should not come as a surprise. And he is just, they're just trying to run out the clock in with as much sensitivity to him as possible. So that's the conspiracy, sensitivity. Human sensitivity. So Laura Luma, not one for enormous amounts of sensitivity, it appears, says he's in a persistent vegetative state, that she put this out on social media

and that the White House who will call her if she gets things wrong hasn't called her about this. What do you mean, the White House will call her if she gets things wrong? Well, she says that she speaks to the president sometimes. She only does what the president wants. So this is she's acting. Remember, Donald Trump hates Mitch McConnell. I would say right up there with all of the people that he hates.

Mitch is maybe right at the top of that list. And so, yeah. So I think he's now torturing Mitch in his final moments. Interesting. So Trump is torturing Mitch. Yeah, clearly. I don't know how we continue talking about this, but the Strait of Hormuz is closed again. The memo of understanding seems to be disintegrating as we speak. I mean, it's kind of no, no, I mean, I was thinking about this.

This is yet another seminal moment in this ongoing war that Donald Trump. Trump can't extract him or the United States from. And we just go on these cycles, again, it's just on repeat. And Trump is always on repeat because he has such a limited range of intelligence. Finally, this is what this is about. Limited range of understanding gives him a limited range of options. And so we're back again to where we were, if not last, week than the week before and several many many weeks before that saying that

this is a Donald Trump who promised no forever wars is now in what obviously is a forever war do you think he regrets it yeah well I think he regrets being in a forever war yeah does he but I think you're asking a different question does does he believe that what he's done that he made errors that have gotten him into this position and gotten the United States into this position. No, he never acknowledges an error doesn't seem to have the capacity or the self-awareness to appreciate that he might have made an error. You know, this is just, again, someone else's fault.

So he really does seem to be in a situation where the memo of understanding has evaporated. each side is attacking the other again, this could go on and on. That's what's called a forever war, yeah. And again, clearly of his making, the memo of understanding was meant all things to all people. Therefore, you know, the straight of Hormuz, you know, that point of vulnerability, which has from the beginning of this, of this, war has stood out. And now this other weird thing of him charging. Right. So both sides now want to charge for the Strait of Hormuz right after Marco

Rubio, Secretary of State, head of national security, governor of Venezuela, whatever he is, all his different jobs, said it's against international law for anybody to charge. But this is a Trump thing and you can see how he does. We're going to, we're going to, we're We're going to charge. No, I'm going to charge. You know, it's that old, fuck you. No, fuck you. Right.

So he's learned his foreign diplomacy from watching Scorsese movies. Yeah. Well, it's just, again, that limit, you know, to understand the limitations here, just the limitations of intelligence, which is what it is. I mean, he can't, he just doesn't know what to do. This is, he reacts in such a, in such a narrow fashion. to almost anything. Think about as language.

The language is always narrow, the same language for any situation, the same 11 words used over and over again. Right. Well, I feel like we're using the same words over and over again for the straight of home use, because what else you're supposed to say? I mean, it feels like we're now stuck in this,

as you say forever. Well, we, of course, are stuck. So, and we're stuck because, because of his limitations in, well, getting us into it and then getting us out of it. Well, and also his sort of obsession with being what he thinks of as the smartest man in the room when, in fact, they've fired all the smart people who had a sense of nuance and who'd negotiated with Iran before. Yeah, well, which wouldn't make any difference because remember he doesn't listen to anyone. Right, okay.

I mean, that's why he fires these people, because they try to tell them things. And he doesn't want to hear. Doesn't want to hear. All right. So, are the Democrats going to be able to articulate this in the run-up to the election? And we mustn't forget that Trump is addressing the nation on Thursday at 9 o'clock, apparently. Eastern time he's going to talk about election fraud. He's basically laying out his campaign strategy, which.

is to so doubt in the American election system, which for the most part is pretty damn good. Yeah, what's the question? Well, the question is, are the Democrats going to be able to use the Forever War and show voters that actually five presidents were begged by Netanyahu to get into this war, turned it down, and Trump was the only fool that was bamboozled into it. I think it's just the price of at the gas pump. I think the explanation for this is complicated, and now it's going to be exacerbated by the fact that no one knows where this is. What's happening there now? Are we at war?

Are we not at war? Do we have a ceasefire? Do we not have, and we will have another ceasefire. Remember, this is going to go again. going to give whatever it takes, there will be another ceasefire eye, you know, the next two weeks, three weeks, something like that. And then we will go through this again. So it just gets so tedious and boring and people switch off because they're like, I can't stand any more of it. I don't know what's happening. I don't need to understand it. Exactly.

So, but they do understand if the price at the gas pump is, is, it hurts. Then, then then that will have an effect. But Trump also knows this. So he's looking at this too, say, what do we have to do? What do I have to give them now at this to maintain the price, you know, to bring the price of gas down? He's already bragging about bringing the gas, the price of gas down, as though he accompanied, as though he's not the reason it did not go up. As if he weren't responsible for the lift and the prices. All right. So let's come on then to your, I thought, quite surprising column on Substack. about Bernie Sanders. Please explain. We're in this moment by what is the Democrats, the entire Democratic Party is in a, you know,

holding their skirts around them because of all of these fairly far left socialist candidates are winning democratic primaries. I mean, unexpected. I'm not sure this should have been unexpected, but it is to the establishment, the party leaders completely unexpected. They completely don't know what to do about this. And it's now as a situation, is the Democratic Party at war with itself. And I mean, I was thinking about this and I was thinking who are these people too. I don't know who these people are.

I mean, none of them has seemed to ever have had a job before, and, you know, that one person identified as a grad student. And more importantly, none of them have created jobs, right? Well, they haven't done anything. They're just literally people who have a, who stand for this ideological position, but with no evidence that they can turn that into accomplishments or legislation or, So you think, what is this? Who are these people? How did they get there? And there is probably an answer. They got there because of Bernie Sanders. They're all Bernie Sanders people. He endorses them. That's how they get elected. He, you know, and I was interested in last year when Bernie Sanders and AOC did this oligarchy tour and everybody's sort of the Democratic. especially pooh-baud this and this. They would go around from city to city and turn out 25, 30, 40,000 people.

So that reminded me of when Donald Trump did this in 2016, and the Democrats said, oh, yeah, that's so, you know, Bush. The Republicans said that. So Bush League. Right. No, the Democrats said this is Bush League stuff. You know, yeah, this is not how we do politics anymore going from, you know, stadium to stadium.

what is this, the 19th century. Right. We're going to fill Hillary with her policy statements and people who couldn't turn out, you know, you know, 30 people. So I was thinking about that and I was thinking that this is, you know, there is something here. There is meaning here. There is power here. And power that the Democrats are ignoring.

And over all this period of time, this tend to. year, this Trump period of time, there's only one Democrat who has consistently been there, not gone away, continued to build his base, his people have radiated out into the broader political field, electing these people. I mean, all of these, the people who are getting elected are being elected by people who have worked for Bernie. Right. So, so who's the guy, guy over this long period of time, this one Democrat, it's Bernie Sanders. And how old is Bernie now? I want to read one paragraph from it. He's 84. He's 84. So we go 10 years ago when he first emerged as the unlikely national figure. Sanders' age was held against him. Ten years ago,

it was held against him, even though he was leading a youthful uprising. However, age was Hardly his only disqualifier. There was his quixotic socialism, his un-reconstructed leftiness, and even more difficult and irritating in grown-up politics, his almost belligerent moralism. Moralism. I love that paragraph. And then let's also talk, because there's another very observational point of us here,

this is great. There are those of us old enough, this would be me, you, To see, with some amusement, Sanders as an entirely recognisable figure from a time when lefty Jewishness was, well, leftiness itself of a rather hoary sort. Jewish summer camp, socialist uncles, folk music, and in my case, a brief teen tenure as a member of the YPSL, the Young People's Socialist League. it seems somewhat hard to reconcile the Mamdani's and the AOCs and the L Syedds, that's the guy in Michigan, and Chevaliers, New York, and Eagad the Platners, though hopefully there isn't more than one, with this tradition. Not unlikely, these Sanders nicks have little idea that their socialism springs from this Jewish neighborhood. So interesting.

Yeah, no, so. And I think that at the end of the day, who is there? Who is the Democrat that rises above all others? And there's a big, you know, this big kind of search for who is the most ascendant, who is the ascendant Democrat? But you're not suggesting that Bernie Sanders at the age of he would be 86 would run in 2020. No, but I'm suggesting that this Bernie Bros or these Bernie systems, or this Bernie cadre is what, because Bernie is now too old, probably too old,

these people are the replacement of that. They are what's rising because of Bernie, because he is the uncrowned king of the Democratic Party. Uncrowned king. Okay, so your friend Andy Bashir is now making noise. And of course, you think of, if the Mitch, McConnell situation were happening in California. I think Gavin Newsom would have been having a field day with this. I think he would have been out there, would have been frantically posting. He would see this as an opportunity for Gavin Newsom to step forward. Andy Beshear is a little bit more

reticent. Andy, this could be your moment, but he senses that there is a moment and he might be able to seize it. So he's been teasing us with the idea that he might apply to appoint a special senator while Mitch McConnell is sitting on the sidelines like this. Right. He seemed very tentative about it. He told MS now on a Sunday night, which if you want to bury the news or bury an idea, that's a good place to put it. Both on a Sunday night and both on MS now.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the guy is running for president, yes. And somebody said, I mean, this apparently can't happen. So the law was changed. It used to be that the sitting governor could, in the event that there was a vacancy, he could make the appointment. This several years ago was changed, perhaps anticipating Mitch's. No, clearly anticipating.

Certain decline. And now the law provides for a special election. A special election, I think, relatively soon also. Well, I think he can appoint someone, and he's saying that he's not acknowledging the change in the law. So he wants to hold the whole thing up with a legal challenge, which would be an interesting thing for Andy Beshear to do to get on the national radar. There is a moment here for Andy Bashir to break out of his milk toast, good old Kentucky governor, and actually take a stand.

People might like it. He could make some good trouble. Well, yeah, possibly. I mean, it's a dicey thing for Andy Bashir because, you know, Mitch McConnell is very popular in Kentucky. But it's not dicey in terms of him thinking about his future. Well, he has to make some noise. Well, yes. So, but that's what you have to do.

When you're a governor of a swing state, you have to balance that. Yes, you can make national noise and become. an American liberal hero, but then you're going to have to return to your own Kentucky voters. Relatively red state. So if you were advising him, as he was summoned to do last summer at a dinner for him, or not to advise him, but to share ideas. Well, share ideas.

Listen to his ideas. Listen to his policy paragraphs. Yes. He's good looking. I will say I think he's got better looking. No, I think he should probably. I mean, he probably, he has to decide what he's going to do. Is he as the straight Pete Buttigieg?

No, no. Pete is much more charismatic. Pete is a, you know, is a pretty good, you know, retail politician. I mean, out there, I mean, he's a. But Andy Boucher must be quite good because, as you say, he's a Democratic governor in a red state? Well, I think one of the ways you get to be a Democratic governor in a red state is that you act more like a Republican. Well, perhaps people don't know he's a Democrat. Yeah, that's the point. I think it's, I mean, you bore everyone to death. I mean, I think that can be,

that can work and seems to have worked for him. I don't know how you do that. And there's a lot. I mean, right now, Andy Bashir and a whole list of other people, in the Democratic Party, who are not Bernie Sanders, but who are in their own way competing with Bernie or being measured against him. You know, what's the contrast gainer? That is a significant element of modern politics. Why do we have Donald Trump? Because he managed to look different from every other person in the Republican

party. And because he put out this tweet about or this truth social about Lindsay Graham that sounds like a teenage girl and it's oddly effective. Right. So that kind of thing, can you communicate? Can Andy Bashir communicate? You know, it's a reach. Perhaps he should do his version of this. Lindsay will be greatly missed, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. Literally what everybody is told in corporate America never use an exclamation point. It's embarrassing, it's emotional, and of course Donald Trump does it. So sad, exclamation point, no space. The lack of grammar in this really irritated me. But maybe Andy Bashir needs to do that about. Yeah, well, I think Andy Bashir has to figure out how to be, how to be Andy Bashir in a way that is, I guess, surprising of people.

guess that gets attention, which is probably a contradiction in terms. So unless I cannot imagine what makes Andy Bashir president. Not that he would be a bad president. He seems like a very intelligent, reasonable, reasonable guy. And I think maybe that's what you try to argue. The country is now run the work. is now run by crazy people. What has happened at this moment in contemporary history is that the crazies have been allowed to rise to the top. And Andy Bashir very much seems not crazy.

Okay. That's some campaign. I am not crazy. I am not crazy. I am not crazy. All right. So we have many questions. Max the intern has been collected. your comments and questions. And we've got a few questions I want to address directly with you. First question, Michael, is from someone called David Burton. And it's, I've just got to ask, does Mick odd nickname for you bleach his eyebrows? I had never noticed your eyebrows before. No, I think what you would notice is that I don't bleach them and perhaps I should.

What color would you bleak them? Well, if you bleach them, you're going to bleach them blonde. I don't know. Or white. It doesn't even cross my mind. You didn't tell us, do you want him to bleach his eyebrows? Someone says, does anyone have the vaguest idea on how to talk to these two? Does that mean we're untalkable to or she's trying to reach us? This is from Kelly Keyes Sands. Kelly, we have, well, you've just talked to us.

I mean, it might mean something else. It might mean like we're like Donald Trump. you can't, you know, all we do is talk and we don't let anyone. Right, we have a resistance to more information coming in. We totally forgot to comment on, as several people pointed out, but Natalie Brown in particular pointed out that we didn't mention the fact that Trump talked about the Islamic Republic of Japan. And I missed that.

Well, he did. Well. He did. We miss a lot of it because. And where did that? Did he talk about that? Was that in a post? It was in, I think it was when he was on the plane. He's always on the plane. Which plane? Well, good question. Air Force, Gryft Force One. And here is rather a good joke from

Lindsay's Gryff Force One or? Well, Gry Force One is the Katari plane that we have spent $600 million at this point refitting with all sorts of things. But he, got $400 million worth of value from the plane. And then he gets to keep it, or does he? Okay, this is from Lindsay Viath. Quite a good joke, actually. What happens to a liar when he dies? Well, I see the punchline here. Okay, well give us the punchline. It's a good one. He lies still. I thought that was a good joke. Thank you, Lindsay. We're up for jokes, actually. Expans the limerickness of it all. Michael there is no pro-abortion

it's pro-choice good point out from lead it but why do I have to subscribe to someone else's language on this it's pro-abortion it's like you're in you believe that abortions should be legal we call it pro-choice because we think that that will

somehow elide the fact that in abortion is being performed taking place all right well you have your point of view There you go, Lee. This is what happens. If you take on Michael, be prepared for his response.

Joanna, I think you display enormous patients dealing with Michael's continual rudeness and dismissiveness. For many, many years. For many, many years. Okay. And then final comment for today. Praise for the production team. Yes. Great visual design here on YouTube.

Best chapter names. Okay. Final limerick from edits this week. week, trapped for now in a cosmic glitch, our twin phantoms, Mach taba and Mitch. Perhaps they're still alive, or does the devil have to decide of his two new arrivals? Which is which? Okay, so we've also got some more art projects set in. This is for you.

I'll give you a raps version, but this is kind of genius. Have a look at them. Are these? This is from someone called Robert. Robert, thank you. Are these coasters? These are coasters. Look how good they are.

These are fantastic coasters. Robert says he noticed that we drink, but we don't have any coasters. That's because we have Formica. I know, we have Formica, but how nice to have a design-appropriate coaster. Thank you. And now we have an artist who's been inspired by us and done some portraits. Your portraits on the way. How come you don't have an inside dress?

Trump's head t-shirt. Well, we should get inside Trump head t-shirt. I'm not going to wear them, but... Well, I would like to wear one. Yeah, I know, we should get one. And so we're... And actually, we'd love your feedback on this. We're playing around with the idea of merch,

and I think we're going to launch an inside Trump's head subscription, whereas part of the subscription you get a mug. That's all you get. Well, you get access to... You get special access to you and me. You get a full uniform, hat, t-shirt. Maybe. Well, anyway, the point is it's underway.

It's underway. Would you like to look at the portrait that someone did of me? And they've done one of you and it's on its way, apparently. It just has mine got here first. And this is from Rebecca. I think it's Rebecca Fetone. Anyway, huge thanks. I like this.

I like this. This is a portrait of me and the portrait of you is. coming. Now, the question is, will they be doing a portrait of you as you are now or when you are at school with all your hair? I love that picture we showed to people. I think we should show it to people again. We're going to flash it up for people in case they missed you with long hair. If you have been, thank you for joining us. We'll be back on Thursday with more inside Trump's head and preparing you for the president's speech on what we think is going to be his view on election fraud. And of course, tomorrow...

That's so fascinating that he would pursue this. I mean, this is a loser issue. I think it's a loser issue, too. I don't think people believe it. But maybe enough people believe it. I mean, people still think he won 2020. It's curious. And of course, tomorrow, the Todd Blanche hearings. Oh, we should have gotten to Todd Blanche. That's interesting. I mean, Todd is a really interesting figure, and again, one of those figures, not unlike in Lindsey Graham, to people who have decided that they have to do this, they have to swallow

when it comes to Donald Trump, and they're going to get something for that. And they're doing, you know, the Todd Blanche thing is justified on he's the client. Now, in fact, he is not the client. So that's an interesting thing. The United States is Todd Blanche's client. But it is very much I do what the client needs me to do. Well, we'll see the hearings start tomorrow and see whether or not any of the Democrat questioners. And amazingly, the hearings start. Chuck Grassley gets to ask the first questions and Chuck Grassley is, I think, 93. I'm sure he can still answer. Ask a question at 93. Well, Mitch McConnell can't.

I mean, they just... And he's nine years younger. And then Lindsey Graham was nine years younger than Trump. And eventually, if you do that one more time, you're going to get to my... Oh, no, actually, Lindsay Graham is at my age. Oh, that was... That actually hit me at that moment. I saw that. I thought, first thing, he looks terribly. He looks... I think he looks much older than I do. No, he does. He does. He does. And he was always rushing off to Kiev, too. I mean, he'd been there, or Kiev, however you pronounce it, 10 times. He'd been there 10 times. Just come back from a long flight. And that tragic thing of him saying to someone, I don't feel great, them saying, apparently, you need to go and see a doctor. And he was like, I'll go and see a doctor after I've done, meet the press tomorrow. There's a terrible, yeah.

that a man would rather go on television to discuss, I guess, his plans for Ukraine and getting his bill through, then he would go to a doctor. You could argue that he was putting the country first and Zelensky first, or you could argue that he was desperate to be on television. Television first. Television first. Yeah, he could have gone on the following week. Anyway, that's what happens with a naotic dissection. You don't have much time. I should think a lot of people are panicked by that.

I bet there'll be tons of people calling their doctors now. Yeah, well, it's that interesting thing that when I was a kid, I remember everyone, they would say, how did that person die to drop dead? Yeah, yeah. And no one drops dead anymore. It's the more of the Mitch McConnell slow exit. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Okay. Anyway, on that note. On that note, we will see you. on Thursday. Okay, you can thank the production team now. Max, the intern. We've actually got a news fellow with us as well this morning, Charlie Sherwood.

Charlie, the news assistant, Ryan, Heather, Ben, Neil, Doug. I'm just making up names. Rachel. Rachel, Heather. John. John.

Pete. Hugh. Hugh. All of them. All of them. of them, the entire office. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.