The Daily Beast Podcast - This Proves Trump Knows He's In Big Trouble: Wolff

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Michael Wolff joins Joanna Coles to trace the oddly revealing logic now driving Donald Trump’s presidency: a man who knows the midterms are coming, knows the numbers are bad, knows Epstein, jobs, ICE videos, and his own health chatter are bleeding into the public consciousness—and who believes the only solution is something that “plays.” From Pam Bondi’s visible strain as Trump treats the Justice Department like his personal law firm, to his lifelong conviction that nothing is ever his fault, Wolff explains why loyalty always curdles into blame. The conversation moves outward to the foreign-policy theatrics he sees as risk-free wins: Venezuela as a headline-grabbing show of force, Greenland as a performative threat designed to make Europe bend, and war as branding. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I went back to the people I speak to the White House to revisit this. And they kind of traced the development of this idea. So the midterm elections are November 3rd, 2026. And he was starting to say, if we lose, we could be finished, finished, finished. He would go on to cite the problems that they were having, which are jobs. Their jobs aren't growing. And in fact, I mean, there was just a piece that can. came, a report that came out that jobs are now, you know, growing.

This is the slowest job growth period in basically 20 years. Michael. Joanna. Okay, today we are going to start with a shout out to a correspondent that we have called Garfried. Garfried, if you are watching or listening, I want to thank you because what other people may not realize is that with every episode, Garfried, writes us a limerick.

I'm going to read you one of the limericks. We don't know Garfried's first name. We don't know if Garfried is a man or a woman. We have no idea. We'd like to know. Although we don't have to know. No, we don't have to know. In fact, it might be better just not to know.

And Garfrey might not have a chosen gender. Garfried may just be in the free... But of course. There once was a realm in a spin, where lies were no longer a sin. Wolf with Coles explain how shameless refrain makes nonsense the way you can win. Thoughts? Brilliant. Well, what I love is that everybody that piles in.

All limericks. That's the thing about a limerick. All limericks are brilliant. Okay, and then there was another one. There once was a prez in late stage who'd lose every thought on the page while Miller and Vance, with Rubio's lance, drove extremes as the midter. Engage. Anyway, Garfried, I'm deeming you the podcast's Limerick Laureate. And what I love is that... And thank you. I mean, it really is. These are... These are good. These are good. They're engaging.

And then other people comment on them and say, good, like the one you did last week better. So Garfried, thank you. You've got a big audience. And also, big audience engagement around Melania. How do we deal with Melania's movies? You could come on the podcast, Garfried, and you could do live limericks. Live limericks. Okay, that's like one of those people that, you know, does that kind of live painting. So a lot of pushback on the idea that we should go and see the movie because we would be giving money to Melania. So various people have suggested. 70% of the back end. 70% of the back.

And she's already got a up for 40 million. million up front, 70% of the back end, 10 million for each of the corporate sponsorships she sells. Okay, and we need to know what the corporate sponsorships are, because we should name and shame probably. Well, I suppose there'll be a, I mean, I think all you get. Oh, you think there'll be a role of credits. That's all you get. You get thanks to, you know. I'm beautiful, all these brands sponsoring me.

But several people have written in saying, actually, actually what you should do is go to the movie theater, buy a ticket for another film, and then when you're in the movie theater, divert to Melania so that she doesn't get the data that you've gone, and they don't collect the ticket money, because you paid for something else. Do you go to the movies?

Are you asking me as a... I love going to the movies. There are few movies I really want to see. No, no, do you go to the movies? in a theater. When was the last time you went to a theater? Well, I saw Hamner in a theater. I live very near the Angelica or the Angulica. I don't know how you pronounce it. Angelica. Angelica. Downtown.

Yes. I've lived near there, too. It's a really super depressing theater. Well, exactly. And is it? The people in it look depressing. The movies are depressing. The popcorn is unspeakable. Yeah. It's, it's, I agree that the screen I have at home is almost as big as the screen in the, and I have a pretty modest television at home, as my sons are always pointing out when they visit, they can't watch sports on there because it's 44 inches as opposed to 75 or whatever the rest of you have. But I do go to, occasionally, not very often.

I saw a terrible movie there called After the Hunt with Julia Roberts, which was very depressing. Well, that's what everyone's talking about, so I can skip that. What are you talking about? I can skip scene after the hunt. Nobody's talking about it. Everyone, isn't it, that's a big Oscar movie. Is it? Yeah.

Well, I find that incredible. I found it super, super annoying. Anyway, I love Julia Roberts in it. And I liked Julia Robertson. I like Andrew Garfield. Yeah, I think you're wrong. There's the other one, which is after the something. I don't know.

This is what we know about movies. Nobody knows anything about movies now. Nobody, but I can talk to you. You know what's gone right off? which I'm really disappointed by, Landman. Season 2, Taylor Sheridan, listen up. The women in season 2 of Landman are, I'm almost embarrassed to watch the show now.

I devoured season one, thought it was brilliant. The women in season two are so bad, they're so cliched, it's embarrassing, it's like they're all strange mager women. It's really depressing. I don't know what happened to you, Taylor Sheridan. I love the first season of Landman. I could watch Billy Bob Farrant. forever. This is disappointing.

Well, I'm in the second season of, I'm probably, I'm caught up on land man. Oh, you're in it. So you're watching it too. Yes. Well, don't you agree with me? You probably like the women because they're young and blonde. Actually, it's Billy Bob is so good that it covers for everything else. And so whenever anything else is whatever, I mean, there's several plot lines there. you just kind of, you know, do social media when those are on.

And then he comes on again and it's riveting. Yeah, I agree. I agree. He's so watchable. Anyway, Garfried, thank you for your limericks. I mean, the sun and that has some relationship. No, no, no, that's not working either. That's not working either. And then the sun miraculously hits oil, but then it all goes wrong.

Whatever. Terrible. Yeah. And Demi Moore is wasted because she's such a good actress and she's not doing her best work there. And Michael, just reminding people where. are we going to be on January the 21st? We are going to be at the 92nd Street Y on 92nd Street and Lexington Avenue. It's at 8 p.m. it turns out.

It's like a proper theatrical production. Yeah, no. Eat first. Eat first. I'm going to eat first. Yeah, no. But it's only protein. You just invited me for dinner afterwards. I'm tooth. That's too late. www.92ny.org and Joanna and I will be live on stage. We'd love to see you there and take questions. And I think we're on stage for 90 minutes, Trump, Epstein.

And if you can't come to New York or you are one of our many viewers in Australia or England, you can join virtually. They're selling virtual tickets now, which is great. So we're excited to be joined by as big an audience as we possibly can be. I did want to talk briefly about a fascinating report in the Daily Mail that says Baron, the six-foot-12 son of the president, seven-foot-nine son of the president, is having elocution lessons. A, what are elocution lessons? B, who has them? I haven't heard of anyone having them since. Well, lots of people have elocution lessons in England. of people? Lots of people in England have them. It's a big English thing to try and help you speak, receive pronunciation. It used to be less so much. I see. Well, no one in America has elocution lessons,

although now people can say, write in and say, no, everyone has. Yeah, write in and tell us if you've had an elocution lesson. Or you could say, I should have elocution lessons, which I feel that might be true. No, you don't need elocution lessons. You know, because I'm listening to myself on these things, it's so I'm so nasal. That is the first time you've admitted, listen to yourself. Well, yeah. I think you go to sleep, listening to yourself.

Don't you just put the podcast on and drift away? No, more and more I become, alas, unavoidable, even to myself. You're not going to have elocution lessons. Well, now I'm going to consider it.

I wonder who the kind of voice is that is most representative of the American voice now. If you're an elocution teacher, who are you reaching up to? Rogan? Or Michael Wolf. Or Michael Wolf or Tony DeCopal? I have no idea what Tony DeCopal sounds like, nor would I recognize Tony DeCopal if I passed him on the street.

But he would recognize you. And does anyone know who Tony DeCopal is? But Barron is having elocution lessons, and I guess it's because his mother has, I have incomprehensible accent No one understand what I say And do you remember the video of him When he was little And he danced around going I love him my thought case

My thought case So I think maybe his accent has stayed with him Which is why we never hear him Can you tell me what Baron's voice sounds like He is the silent Baron Well in his defence What is the guy, 18? I think he's 19

Even so. This is a lot of pressure on a 19-year-old. Olivia Rodriguez. There are lots of 19-year-olds out there having a great time. Well, there are stars. Well, I'm just saying I can't remember hearing Barron speak, and according to the Daily Mail, he's having elocution lessons. And I think it's because he spent so much time with his mother, who has a very strong accent, and possibly his grandfather, Victor Knav, who presumably also has a very strong accent and who looks like a mini version of Donald Trump.

Can we confirm this? No, of course not, if it was in the Daily Mail. It was in their daily mail, so it's possibly completely untrue. But I did think it was interesting, and I want to talk about so much to discuss this week. But we can go, as long as we're feeding off barren rumors, Let's start one. Okay, come on.

Or at least I have a question. So Barron went to, you know, there was all that drama about where Barron was going to college. And then it turned out that he was going to, unexpectedly, to NYU. But now they've made this kind of sort of announcement, not exactly announcement, that he was going to the NYU campus in Washington. Right. Suddenly news to everyone that NYU had a campus in Washington. Yeah.

But also going into the crypto business. Maybe there is an NYU campus in Washington. So if anybody knows, is there an NYU campus in Washington? And has anyone seen Baron Trump on this invisible campus? Right. The interesting thing about Baron is he is, he is. because he's so tall, like a basketball player, impossible to miss. Anyway, people have missed him and we don't know where he is.

In the early days in 2017, when they just got into the White House, and then Steve Bannon had this idea that they should do a photo op with the president and his son, Baron, golfing together. And Bannon said, you know, because if your father golfs, you golf. It's just, it just, it's just, it's just what is for everyone. And so that was proposed to Trump. He said no. He said no. Because he thought Barron would be able to hit the ball further. I, I mean, Bannon's feeling was that, um, that father and son didn't spend a lot of time together. Okay, which would also explain why he's having elocution lessons. Anyway, another thing I noticed this

week. Because, you mean, because his father speaks so well? Well, his father does speak in an American accent. Tucker Carlson, standing at the back of the oil executive meeting, has lost a lot of weight. I think he's on a GLP one. Well, curiously, I mean, I've known Tucker for quite a long while, like 25 years, and I've watched him put on all that weight. So it's like we're, it's like an arc here. So do you think, I think that GLP-1s become quite obsessive for people. People I know who are on them get very excited about being on them. And obviously it's transformation if you lose as much weight as he has lost and also

as much weight as Pam Bondi has lost. I think she's lost 50 pounds. I was looking at pictures of her. Could that possibly be? It's possibly true. 50 pounds is a lot of pounds. I mean, that means she was really. She's tiny.

Pam Bondi is tiny. So did she used to be large? Well, if you look at her face, her face was really round, and it's now incredibly angular and sharp. She's clearly on them, or she's so incredibly stressed running the DOJ. You take 50 pounds off your face. All right, 30 pounds. She may have lost 30 pounds. But she's definitely lost weight.

And when I checked it out on chat GPT, the sense was. was, the summary of it was that they thought, Chad GPT thought she'd lost 50 pounds. She certainly lost a lot of weight. Well, I mean, there's a couple of things going on here. I mean, you may lose weight just by working for Donald Trump. For sure, for sure. But that hasn't happened to Stephen Chung.

Granted. There was that fascinating picture. I'm just going back to the interview that the New York Times did, where they had five people surrounding him. but apparently only four reporters, so I don't know who the other person was. Maybe it was the photographer. And then on the sofa was Stephen Cheng sort of sitting hunched holding his phone. On the edge of the sofa so that you were afraid the sofa was going to tilt.

Tip over. Yeah. And Trump had said to him, you need to be on a fat drug, right? I remember him saying that. Totally. Although Trump has said that about himself too. And Trump goes on. almost anyone who is overweight in the Trump circle, and let's remember that Trump himself is overweight,

but anyone, he goes on at great length about their weight. You know, there was off-the-cuff remarks that were somebody recorded and passed to me during one of the fundraisers at John Paulson's house in Palm Beach. The $50 million fundraiser? Yes, yes. And Trump is, Trump's off the cuff remarks are, of course, like 45 minutes worth of off the cuff remarks. But a good part of it is about one of the people who is overweight.

Like we can't say that word anymore. So we say the word chubby now. Now we all say chubby. And then he goes on to talk about so-and-so who is, who is, chubby, very, very chubby. And that has caused him a lot of chubby problems. Well, what was he referring to? There was a moment during the endless meeting with the oil executives,

which we must debrief on because it was so fascinating, where he singles out Harold Ham and says, you know, you're a great guy, you can just put a straw in the ground and find oil. And then he says, but you have other. problems. And I was like, what is he talking about? What are the problems? And we never come back to it. I was hoping that that little note that little Marco passed to the president would be about I don't know, but he and Harold Ham are very close. They are. So what is his problem? I don't know. Well, let's, let's, it was slightly sinister the way he said it. Like, I know you have a problem and I need you to come to the table. Yes, it's often a, when he does that, a reference to women problems. or wife, wives. No, you call it wives problem.

He's got a wives problem. He's got a wife. I don't know if he does. I don't know if Harold Ham does or not. We have no idea of Harold. We are sure. But Trump is very, very attentive to that. He's very attentive to men and their wives.

And I believe that Harold Ham has a younger wife. Although, as one of the Trump people said to me, Trump is always pointing out when a man has a younger wife, but many of these men now are so old that their wife, that their younger wives actually are now quite old of perfectly respectable age. Well, hasn't he pointed out that you have a younger wife, and he's also said your wife is hot, which she is? She's also very nice and very smart, I would like to add. But Pan Bondi, I'm concerned for because she's lost a ton of weight.

Well, let's go, you know, to the specific thing, you know, Pan Bondi is now, under the gun. And the Wall Street Journal just had a piece basically saying that she's very close to being fired. Right. She's got one leg out the door. And it's an interesting thing. I mean, Pam Bondi is the attorney general. Trump has this relationship with almost anybody who is his lawyer. And he regards Pam Bondi not as the government's lawyer or the nation's lawyer, but as his lawyer. And in those relationship, they always come to tears because he expects lawyers as though this is what a lawyer, as though a lawyer is a magician, to solve all his problems and get him all the things that he wants. This is going back to Roy Cohen, his lawyer who, at least in his own mind, he built up into a magician.

Roy can do anything, solve any problem, a vanquish any enemy. So in the case of Pam Bondi and all his other lawyers, when they don't do that, then he gets incredibly frustrated and blames it on them. Now, this is interesting because in this Justice Department, the Pam Bondi Justice Department has absolutely, he has brought to heel, like no other president in modern history has done. So she has really gone out of her way to give him. him everything that he wants, things that he should not have and things that that, that the,

the justice system writ large, is not going to accommodate. But she's there trying to give him these things, giving him these things, and yet it's not enough. Well, it's also not entirely working because the efforts, excuse me, the efforts to indict James Comey went wrong, the efforts to indict Tish James. went wrong, both thrown out because of the disappointment of your friend, Lindsay Halligan. Well, that's what I'm saying here, that the justice system in general is, thank goodness, larger than just the Justice Department. But even within that context, she's willing to do anything.

It's entirely his fault that it hasn't worked out. And it must be very frustrating and stressful. Except, and it's a very important character note. Nothing is ever his fault. Now, that is almost, that is one of the elemental things to understand about Donald Trump and about Donald Trump's politics. It is never his fault. He is not, he is not psychologically or temperamentally able to admit fall. And this is what everybody around him says. It's kind of stable stakes in working for Donald. Trump. Do you mean table stakes or do you mean stable stakes? I mean table stakes. Okay. All right. I think you meant Trump's stakes. Yes. All right. Table stakes, which I've never quite under. Table stakes are like super basic, right? You have to have this to go forward. Yes. I think it's gambling, which I don't know what that is either. But yes. But it's actually curiously an expression that I've picked up from Trump people. Oh, interesting. But at, at, and

any rate, this is, you go into this understanding that he can never be at fault. There always has to be something else, someone else to blame, some other rationale why something bad has happened. And you're in this thing. Everything actually is his fault because nothing happens, nothing, everything that happens happens because he wants it to happen. Everything is at his directive. Everything is trying to intuit what he wants. So he is at full for everything, but he can never be, never, there's not, there can't be even the slightest suggestion that he is at full. Well, must be very frustrating to be Pam Bondi, trying to squeeze the justice department to your will, your, your, your master's will, and not being able to deliver exactly what he wants,

but in the, at the same time, you know, half destroying the justice department. And of course, had problems with his first AG, Jeff Sessions. Remember little Jeff who was played by, who was he played by on SNL? It was one of the better caricatures on SNL. I want to say it was Melissa McCarthy and then William Barr, Bill Barr, who refused to say that the election was stolen. Now, this piece in the journal which quotes unnamed people as saying that he's beginning to question Pam Bondi, and that's what he does. He calls up people, and he says, so what do you think of Pam? And that is a sign of bad things to come. So if he calls you and says that, and you're JD Vance or your Marco Rubio, what do you say? Are you supposed to understand that he's calling

because he wants you to agree with him that it's, of course. what do you think of Pam? Then he will tell you. He will give you a microsecond to respond. You won't be able to respond in that second because you're kind of off what does he want to hear. And then he will tell you.

And then you'll agree with that. Okay. Okay. So, but this also, remember this is not the first person. Remember, Pete Hegseth was under the gun. I think you also

predicted that Tulsi Gabbard was going to go and she's still there, but she's hidden. She's just, she says nothing. She's slid below the radar. But the interesting thing is when you get this, when this now breaks, somebody picks this up, it becomes a story. That then becomes your, the person's defense. Pam Bondi now cannot be fired because if she were fired, she would be being fired because the Wall Street Journal said she would be fired and Donald Trump won't do that because it's the Wall Street Journal right because anyone he cannot be told what to do right so Pam Bondi is we'll lose more weight okay Pam Bondi will lose more weight Pam I think it's time you wait the other thing you need to do

Pam and I can say this as a woman is you need to have your roots done I think she is so busy she hasn't had time to go to the hair salon and if you look at her hair initially we all thought she was blonde. Now it turns out she's actually got very dark hair and it's really growing in. So I know it's sexist of me I'm just saying it's a sign. I have no opinion on this. And I haven't noticed actually. Well I've noticed. I hope

that we can flash up the picture from the Wall Street Journal which shows that Pam's hair has gone to a sort of ombre. It starts very dark. Has she had surgery? Has she been has she had to have a mega look? Well she's almost the original

mega. Have we seen before and after? but I'm sure we can show it before and after. You know what? Cassandra Gray, who started Violet Gray, which is a very upmarket beauty boutique, told me yesterday that the average age for a facelift is 37. 37. First of all, how do people have the money? And secondly, that does feel early. I'm waiting for my facelift.

I'm saving up the money. Anyway. I haven't had a facelift. Long to have a facelift. I think we can tell I haven't had a facelift. I long to have one. I know, no, somebody actually, I ran into somebody the other day who watches us and said and comments, only that your skin is so smooth.

Well, that's because we have very good lighting in here. But I long to have a facelift. Anyway, we're getting distracted. My wife says we have terrible lighting. Well, she should come in and do the lighting. I know. Victoria, come in and do the lighting. You're very welcome.

Okay, so we've got Pam Bondi struggling. I think that's fair. And then, of course, we've got everything else going on. We've got Trump meeting. Machado, the actual winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, which I'm concerned if she's brought it with him, if she's brought it with her, I'm concerned he's going to grab it. I'm sure he will.

But we know it's non-transferable. It's like all those invitations you get on paperless post, this invitation is non-transferable. The Nobel Peace Prize is non-transferable. Remember the Time magazine cover that he created by himself. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter. She's going to bring her prize.

Anyway, they're meeting on Thursday, but I know you've been talking to people in the White House, and I want to know what they're telling you. You know, I've been talking about Venezuela, but then also about Greenland. You know, and I think, and I'm certainly one of the people who has said is this has been a kind of developing interest of his, that this is never going to happen. And what's the this that we're going to take over ownership and he'll become acting president? Well, that, yes, that we're going to take over Greenland because, I mean, the first thing, there's no reason for it because we already have everything we want. The idea of doing this is so break so many conventions in modern international and political life.

Why would you want this? So, but after obviously Venezuela has happened and then this Greenland thing with Stephen Miller basically saying we're going to go after Greenland. So I went back to the people I speak to the White House to revisit this. And they kind of traced the development of this idea. And then it begins with in the fall, it probably actually begins with the, it probably actually begins with the, the bombing of the Iranian nuclear facilities, which... Over the summer, so when was that July? Yes.

Summer, August. June, July, yeah. It all goes past so quickly. It's all compressed into a... But he was delighted by how that worked out. You know, he kept saying, nobody, no lives lost, no equipment loss. It's very focused on this.

of equipment. And it played. And he kept going around saying, it really played, it played. Which is what he loves, right? When it plays well. Yeah. And so anyway, this was,

in these conversations that I've been having, they kind of trace this, that they're beginning in the fall, he started to see that, you know, there was coming up to the one year, mark in which we would then fight, he would have to fight and the Republicans would have to fight the midterm elections. So the midterm elections just our will be our November 3rd, 26. And he was starting to get, you know, starting to feel it and starting to say to say that

he was, he would say, if we lose, we could be finished, finished, finished. He has this thing. He likes to repeat the same word. Like Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. Yeah, exactly. And then he would go on. And with some almost self-awareness, he would go on to cite the problems that they were having, which are jobs. He seems to have been on top of that. Their jobs aren't growing.

And in fact, I mean, there was just a piece that came, a report that came out, that jobs are now growing. The slow, this is the slowest job growth period in basically 20 years. And then he said, you know, in the Epstein shit, jobs, the Epstein shit. And then the ice videos, as he says, these ice videos that everybody is crying over. Michael, we're going to take a break for some ads. And we are back, Joanna and I, inside Trump's head. So interesting. So he has a sense of it. Also, I'm sure another reason he's annoyed with Pam Bondi is the Epstein files. Right. That must be a source of frustration. Yes. Yeah. That she has not been able to kill that.

Right. Well, and in fact, she's prolonged it and she hasn't brought them out properly and she said they were on her desk. Then she released them. Then there wasn't anything to release. All of it. It's been a total mess. So, it's been badly handled. And then his health, or as he said, the Dem saying, I'm fucking Joe Biden senile. I'm Joe Biden senile. So he does have a sense that this is going wrong. Yeah, he has a sense that this is growing wrong that they could lose the House and then even acknowledging the possibility that they could lose the Senate, which he says,

then I'm back in court, won't be pretty. Interesting. So what is his plan? So then he said, in the, and this started to happen early in the fall, when the, this whole kind of conversation started to go on and that one year will have one year. So he said, we're going to have to go for Greenland. Now, when he said this, everybody regarded this as a joke, just the more of a thing, you know. And then people who were slightly more worried than that kind of quiz Susie Wiles.

and she just kind of rolled her eyes and kind of refused to even entertain the possibility, Greenland. But then, you know, it was always going back to bombing Iran and how well that worked out. And then he started to, has started a circle back and talk about Pete Hegsseth. he's got all that spirit. Because Pete Hegseth also looked like he was vulnerable after the Washington Post story about him saying just kill the survivors that had been thrown overboard from the boat strikes. Totally. So this is an interesting thing that Hegsith has come back in, that Trump has seen this stuff, the boats, or the use of the military as extremely. positive. It plays. It plays. And also, so you've got Iran, which he thought played, and then

you've also got Venezuela. I mean, a remarkable extraction of Maduro. Well, and that's the other thing. So he's sort of announced, we need something for 2026, a standout thing for 2026. And it has to be a whole new big deal he's been going around and saying. And it has to play. It has to play. We need something that has to play. And to understand that, that means something that captures all the headlines and all the conversation. So it doesn't really, it's not really about good or bad.

It's about, is anyone thinking about anything else? No, you just, it's as attention is a zero-sum game. Is it on him? And then they did the Venezuela thing. And the Venezuela thing was, as it's described to me inside the White House, is that it really was about getting Maduro. That was it. We'll take him out and that's it.

And then it was Trump, and we've discussed this before, who suddenly promoted this into an imperial vision, that this is we were taking over the country. And then followed by Stephen Miller, who was now sort of codified this into a... Into a sort of policy? Yeah, into a draconian position. How fascinating.

So Trump understanding that he was in trouble with the midterms, which are in, what, 11 months now, realized he needed something big that played well like Iran, and that's why they extracted Maduro. Right. And so he said there's a line that I got from somebody quoting Trump. We have a big stick. Nobody knows how we're going to use it.

We're freaking everybody out. I'm unpredictable. I might do it. I might not do it. Nobody knows. And then this person I was talking to said, he's pumped. he's pumped so the Greenland in fact

could be a real thing that they could go in and do it yes and there was another way that they've that this has been framed to me it's it's you know the old paradigm is superpower against superpower which which from a foreign policy

standpoint in the way that plays it's it doesn't it's kind of stasis nobody nobody nobody really really moves But the Trump paradigm is superpower against people without power. So therefore, he necessarily wins Venezuela. What are they going to do?

And then it turned out there was a story. The story came out this week that the entire defensive structure of Venezuela was not turned on. I mean, they have not been able to implement it. They didn't have the, they don't have that. their carbon footprint. They probably switched it off. So this is, you're looking at a series of of foreign adventures in which, which are no lose. No lose. No risk. I mean, even the Venezuela thing is,

I mean, the Greenland thing is essentially just to threaten, stamp his foot, make all of these Europeans somehow rush around and offer things. And so, I mean, my guess would be Greenland. He will get what he wants in Greenland, which will not change anything at all about the situation as it is in Greenland. So I spoke to someone. I was calling some of my European friends yesterday,

and I spoke to someone in Denmark who said that. So they've got the Danish foreign minister, or the Minister for Greenland, and the Greenland Minister, responsible for Greenland. Greenland coming to meet Marco Rubio tomorrow. And he said, this is the most important meeting for Denmark since World War II. And apparently the two ministers are competing with each other for who shakes Marco Rubio's hand first. No, I am sure from their point of view, it's how the problem is solved by by bending over and doing everything that Trump wants you to do

or wants everything Trump wants you to be seen doing. So does the Danish prime minister who's also up for election this year, does she just give up and say, here you go? Because where is the NATO thing? Because he's not going to invade Greenland, right? There's nothing really to invade. No, no. It's just those nice colored huts. No, and let's remember there are two issues in Greenland, the defensive posture of Greenland and being able to use greenland as a strategic, for its strategic place in the Arctic region in which we have all access to that.

I mean, there's already a treaty in place. We can basically do anything. And then there is the greenland resources, mining minerals. And, you know, I mean, as I think it's evident that the people and that Greenland would like anybody to come and make the investment and extract the Greenland. Cooper should go from land ban and extract it. or what about Harold Ham, who is able to put a straw in the ground and find oil? Well, we'll go to the oil guys. We should go to the oil guys because that's another thing. So we've done this Venezuela thing.

Why are we invading Venezuela? You know, there would certainly be a rationale that this is, Venezuela is run by terrible people. And we have a... And it's still run by terrible people. It's still run by terrible people. That's the point. They've had an election. They elected someone else.

Those people were not allowed to assume power. So certainly the rationale, we're taking this guy out and we're putting in the duly elected people. I mean, there are problems with that as a foreign policy rationale. But at least it's a reasonable rational. The logic to it. But we're not doing that quite the opposite. We're leaving the same people in. So then the rationale...

We're doubling down, which is something you always say he does. We're doubling down on someone who is equally bad, if not worse. Totally. But then the new rationale, the real politic became, we want it for the oil. And to bring in American oil companies. Yes. Now, I mean, this is also a kind of weird inversion. You know, the U.S. has been accused in many of its foreign adventures of doing it for the oil.

And then we always say that's not true, and it probably is true. But in this case, Trump is out there saying, we're doing it for the oil, except that, then he's offering the oil to everyone and nobody wants it. So he has these guys, these oil guys, these American oil guys, come to the White House this week. And they kind of look at him, including the Exxon people who say, who say, well, Venezuela is uninvestable. And then he goes, well, we don't want Exxon investing there anyway. Like a kind of five-year-old.

So we've done it for the oil. Yeah. The real politics. Let's just rip off. every pretense here. You know, we're tough guys. We want that oil. And then it turns out no one wants it.

No, no, no, no, not us. It's so strange. So Greenland, you think he's just going to announce that we've taken or annexed Greenland? There's nothing that Denmark can do about it. NATO is not going to go in and fight for Denmark to have the right to own. I don't think it will go. I think that the Europe and the Danes are going to realize, you know, this is. This is not real.

This is not real. This is just Donald Trump. This is play acting. This is performative. But it may end up costing the premiere in Denmark the election. I mean, she's gone from being very popular to much less popular. I'm not up to date on Danish politics. But yes, perhaps.

I mean, I think it is a. It is anybody who capitulates to Donald Trump, that's not such a good look. On the other hand, the other Trump threats from tariffs to military action to taking out the Danish prime minister, I don't know, she'll be in the same jail as Maduro. I don't know. That's not going to happen to Denmark. Well, you know, never saying never. Well, I'm looking at my notes here and something's changed. These are the notes that I wrote down.

Something's changed there. She's had to step up her rhetoric. And nobody in Denmark has any appetite for losing Greenland. She's caught between a rock and a hard place, nightmare having to negotiate this for her. So she may well lose the election. No, no. I mean, yeah. I mean, I think it's, I mean, Donald Trump makes things different.

for almost everybody who crosses his path. Because remember, he has to win. Someone has to seem to lose. He has to win. That's all that he wants here. This is it. I win, you lose, even though nothing changes whatsoever. So what will Marco Rubio say behind closed doors to the Danish and the Greenland ministers tomorrow when they come for their most important meeting since, I'm sure they haven't even had a meeting at the White House Denmark for 25 years. I think that he says this is what we need because Trump and his the the implication is Trump is a crazy man and he has to be pacified. So how do we do this? How do we do this together? And Rubio is going to have some suggestions. I think we can see if we get this to fly.

And, you know, I suspect it is we will rewrite the defense agreement that we have in place. Nothing much will be changed in this agreement, but we will rewrite it. We will do something similar for mineral rights. And then the issue, and that will not change anything either, then the issue will just be one of language. Trump wants to say we own it. And that will be the rub for the D. Denmark, right.

And Rubio will be working this out. Can we say the following would? Right. So. And he will say, what this has to look like is Trump has to have the win. You have to give him the win. What Trump wants is to be able to put out on truth social, as he did over the weekend, that he is the acting president, not only of Venezuela, but the acting president of Venezuela and Greenland. Something like that, yes. Yes.

And Michael, gratefully, we are taking a break to hear from our sponsors. And once more, I can't say we're glad to be back inside Trump's head. but we're faded to be back inside Trump's head. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, I loved the Exxon guys, actually. I thought it was such a good moment in that crazy meeting. And that moment where he wanders over to the door and stares out and you think, oh, he really is a real estate guy

because what he wants to do is actually stare out at the progress of the East Wing. By the way, do they always play hail to the sheaf when there's a meeting like that? I didn't know if that was a regular thing or not. No, it's not because I've been in meetings with Trump. And no, and I'm just actually now recollecting now. I mean, it just seems so strange to me that everybody had to stand up. There was some applause. They were playing a hail to the sheave.

He was pretending it was all sort of fine. But you could, I just thought it was a strange moment. we haven't even mentioned, and this is Pam Bondi again, everything is coming back to Pam Bondi, the newly thin, stressed, gaunt-looking, needs roots done, Pam Bondi, Jerome Powell, who I cannot believe suddenly interrupted my Instagram feed as I was scrolling through looking at the best dressed for the Golden Globes saying I'm being charged by the DOJ.

Extraordinary. And this is back, this Trump thing. And there's a quote that I have from a Trump quote. And this was not, this would have come from the first administration. And it says, I have all the power. I can fuck over anybody who's being an asshole to me. Which says it all moment. Well, but Jerome Powell is not being an asshole to him.

Jerome Powell appears to be doing the job that he was put in by Donald Trump to do. But from Trump's point of view, Trump has a singular focus. I want interest rates to be lowered. If interest rates are lowered that will help me hold the House of Representatives during the midterm elections. I want you to do that. You're the chairman of the Fed. I'm going to make your life miserable. I'm going to fuck you.

you over if you don't give me what I want. I have the power. And doubly ironic that he's going after Jerome Powell for this renovation of one of the federal buildings that they got into a kind of scrap about. And Jerome Powell made the mistake of humiliating the president. I think that's what it comes back to. And you're always saying it doesn't like to be humiliated. He didn't like the dances that Maduro was doing, poking fun at him. He didn't like Obama poking fun at him at the White House correspondence ball. And Jerome Powell wasn't poking fun, but he wasn't letting Donald Trump get away with accusing him of something that was wrong. I think it's awesome. Anybody who stands in his way, anyone who seems to oppose him, anybody who he interprets as being an asshole to him,

I'm going to fuck you over. And whether this is, I mean, whatever this is, this is this investigation and possible indictment is going to go nowhere. It's like, it's going to go nowhere. It's like, Of course it's going to go nowhere. It's like the Comey thing. Well, they'll probably put Lindsay Halligan in to do it. I mean, so it is just, this is not, this is not an investigation. This is a fuckover. So, and, you know, and this is, I mean, this is not, this is not fun for everyone.

This is not fun for Powell. This is, I mean, the cause of enormous stress and anxiety and, um, and then undermines your reputation. I mean, it's just, it's just you're being fucked over. You're being fucked over. Yeah, well, it was, and of course the dollar immediately responded by taking a tumble. That felt like a big mistake. But there's an interesting thing here, an interesting bit of blowback here.

And I think, first thing, Powell is blowing back on the same, basically the Fed is going to fight this. But then there's another interesting example that's, that's going on with Mark Kelly. So, you know, Hegsith announced that he was going after Mark Kelly for... For treason, right, sedition. Yeah, for any way, for issuing a statement that people in the military, if it's an illegal order, they don't have to obey it. And we have had a back and forth about that.

And many thousands of comments about that. Thank you for those comments. People love Mark. They see him as a real American hero and they do not see Pete Higgsath. No. Without question, I mean, I mean, Mark Kelly is a hero and is a military guy in the way that Hegseth is a pretend military guy. So at any rate, at any rate, Hegsith threatened Kelly and Kelly is now suing Hegsseth.

Right, taking a leaf out of your book. So, and it's not dissimilar from what I did. You know, I got threatened the fuck over from Melania Trump. And before she could act on this, I acted and sued her. And this is a similar kind of thing. And I think people are starting to see this, that you have to, you know, first thing that these are kind of paper tigers in their way. and and there is there are tools to oppose these guys. What is that, is it that line from network, I'm not going to take it anymore.

It just feels like people are coming back at you. Well, maybe. I mean, there's, I mean, there are now. I get that, but it's clear it's the only way to do it. No, and there are something that there's, there's movement, you know, there are congressional, congressional Republicans are now starting. to, there's something going on in this incredibly quiescent group of people. Suddenly there's pushback.

And in the house, they've just voted to extend the health care subsidies, which he has said, Trump has said he will veto. Why would he veto that? That, to me, is going to be the single biggest issue. at the midterms, although goodness knows what could happen between now and then. But if you're sitting there and your healthcare premium has doubled or tripled, how on earth are you going to vote for the party that brought you the big, beautiful bill, which enriches billionaires and leaves you literally unable to pay your health care insurance? How is that possible? And of course, record numbers

of Congress people on both the Democrat and the Republican side are stepping down because they don't want to deal with this anymore. Yeah, no. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's got, I mean, the Obamacare issue has always been a, um, intractable one for the Republicans. Oh, yeah, yeah, Michael wolf, what a lot going on. All right, so we do have more questions for the very lawsuit that you just referenced for Melania. Okay. Here is a question from Kelly Nevard, 74, 64, 64, could Wolf, ask Melania, did her and Donald have an open relationship, or did she know he was having extramarital affairs, and has she ever had an affair? Does that become relevant? Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure. Let me take that under advisement. Okay, we'll take that under advisement.

Here's a good question from Norma Jean Rahn. Where is Melania registered to vote? Did she vote absent last year when she was in Florida. If so, and her address is NYC, then that would be it. Yeah, but that's not. She did vote in Florida. She did vote in Florida. But just because you vote in Florida does not mean that that under the law, that that's where you are, the law would determine that you're actually domiciled. Okay. Well, here's another good question from Sashita. Here's another good question from Sashita 390. I would like Michael to ask Melania how she travels between New York City and D.C. Is that on Air Force One at taxpayer expense?

Does she handle First Lady business from New York? Do she and Donald, I think some of these come from Europe, do she and Donald file separate taxes since her primary residence is in NYC? and his is the White House? All good questions. All good questions. Question for Wolf's Melania case. Will he be subpoenaing Marla Maples to find out why she told Sandra Coleman to protect

her 14-year-old daughter, who was a model from all Trump's friends, i.e. the men, the Mar-a-Lago model party? I think I'm not allowed to say who we're discussing. Okay, well, it's a good question. as to yet, but yes. Well, that's from Victoria O'Connor. Very good question, Victoria. All right, we've covered quite a lot of ground this morning.

Well, don't look blankly. You can't remember anything you've said. You cannot remember any of it. Big day for Denmark tomorrow with Marco Rubio. We can continue to cover more and more ground. Just go on indefinitely. All right. Well, I'm just up summing the week ahead of us.

We've got the Denmark meeting with Marco Rubio tomorrow, where the Danish and the Greenlandic ministers are fighting over who should shake his hand first. I think it should be Greenland because it's smaller. And it's really about them. And then we've got Machado, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, coming in to meet Trump at the White House on Thursday. And then when is the president of Colombia coming? He was supposed to be coming this week too.

He's packing them in. He's a big meetings. No, they had a phone call when the New York Times was there, which we weren't allowed to hear. But I think he seemed delighted that he'd been invited to Washington instead of extracted, ignominiously, like our friend Maduro.

Yeah, and I think we just have to see this in this, we're in this new imperial phase, which is, remember, this used to be the White House, no more foreign wars, White House. Right. We were going to actually. We abstract ourselves from all of these conflicts. But now we're in, the imperial Trump is an appealing, it's very appealing to him.

He feels that it plays. And especially an imperial Trump that doesn't put anything at risk. So it's a, I mean, totally. I mean, I think from a foreign policy point of view, view, it's entirely novel way to see the world. Yeah. Well, I thought your conversations

with people in the White House, very interesting. And for those who want to, well, you can either listen to this podcast again or you can read it on Michael Subsnack. How? Tales of our time. Tales of our time, indeed. If you have been, thank you for joining us. Please leave your comments. We really,

really love them. I love having a sense of our audience. It's so much fun. Garfried. And if anyone else says, yes, Limericks, Limericks, poems, iambic pentameter, I can read them out. Okay, we grew up speaking in iambic pentameter. And we want your ideas for how do we handle the Melania documentary and the theatrical rollout? Anyway, we appreciate your suggestions. Don't forget to sign up for the Daily Beast, Bee Beast tier membership, which gives you extra content and dinner with Michael every Friday.

Don't forget, B-Beast, and Michael is now going to read out all our B-B-Beast-tier members. And you're going to pronounce their names. It's a growing list. I'm going to pronounce their names the way I want to pronounce their names. All right, and you can write in and tell us if he got it right or not. Are we ready? We are ready for the role of the names, the roll call. Yvette Johnson, methinks, Betsy O'Farrell, Mills and Linz,

Shelley Belly Well, Chalby It would be Chalby Max It's not that easy to read out all the names Max Quibit Qibit Max Cubit

Max Cubit Max wrote in to say We got his name wrong David Shari Thomas Moore Maria Voltaine D Cujer Watts Sien Lund

Sine Lund Okay. John H. Overrocker. Deb K. Ostrander. Sandra Clark. Travels with Carl. Andrew Beaver. Cappanator.

Harry Clark. Dawn McCarthy. Daniel Doglover. M. Griner. D. Stone. Fulvia Orlando. Herbie. Andrew Melor.

Melor. Melor. Andrew Meller from the Ribble Valley Tatnell Val Love Francesco Will Hutchinson Andrea Hodel Bocock D.C.

Sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford Karen White and Heidi Riley Thank you all Very well read And thank you to our production team Devin Rodgerino, Ryan Murray Rachel Passer and Heather

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