The Daily Beast Podcast - Trump Is Hawking This Season’s Most Petty Gift for Christmas

Episode Date: December 17, 2023

The former president claims to be ridiculously wealthy but The New Abnormal team says his move to sell parts of the suit he wore in his Georgia mugshot wreaks of desperation. Plus! Danielle Moodie also talks with Hein de Haas on his book How Migration Really Works: A Factful Guide to the Most Divisive Issue in Politics which provides a clear and rigorous corrective on our distorted ideas around migration. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedinan, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new abnormal.

We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with sociologist Hindahas, who joins us to talk about his new book, how migration really works, the facts about the most divisive issue in politics. And he's going to tell us all about that. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some clips? Clips. Clips. So many years ago, I came to that realization that hopefully most people come to, which is

conservatism is a total grift. Donald Trump clearly saw that and went for it. But you got to admire, well, maybe you don't have to admire this one. He takes it to a whole new level, as we're about to hear here. 47 all new stunning cards, and here is the best part. I'm doing two important things for my Trump collectors. For the first time, we're creating a real physical Trump card. purchase 47 digital cards and we'll mail you a beautiful trading card.

It is an authentic piece of the suit I wore when I took that now famous mugshot. And it was a great suit. Believe me, a really good suit. It's all cut up and you're going to get a piece of it. I'll be autographing some of them. A true collector's item, this is something to give to your family, to your kids and grandchildren. With the purchase of 47 of the Trump Digital Trading Cards, you will also be invited to join me for a gala dinner at my beautiful Mar-a-Lago. My home in Florida, you've perhaps heard of it.

Oh, my fucking God. It's a journalist. My favorite part was I had to fact check if that was real, but then I'm like, of course it's real. But I'm like, all right, but you got to check. But of course it's real. Well, it's real in the sense that he says he's going to. Yes, yes. It's real in the sense that that is him actually saying those words.

I had to make sure it wasn't AI is what I'm worse saying. Yes, absolutely. Yes. It's so depressing that people think that he's a good president. This man is a used car fucking salesman by 47 of these digital bullshit things and then give my mugshot to your kid because that's what the fuck you should aspire to. Oh, my God. Grandma, I need 4,653. just like he needed those 11,000 votes.

I didn't think you could make NFTs any worse. And he found the way. You would not think a guy who is as rich as he claims to be would need to do little stunts like this. If you are truly wealthy, is this the tap dance that you're doing? The next cologne that he comes out with should just be called desperation. and it should have a long fucking red, you know, like a red nail polish colored tie. That's how you get the spray out.

The fuck. I'll say this too. You know, I see the unfortunate right wingers I see in my timeline from time to time to time say that us liberals are always exaggering about Trump and what he's going to do. You know what? We didn't have the imagination.

We're like he's going to sell photos of the bugshot. We didn't have the imagination that he'd make trading cards of the fucking sooty war. Yeah. Yeah. But again, it's like this is such penny anti stuff. Like that's what boggles my mind. This is not even like, like at his levels of supposed wealth, this should be nothing.

Like this shouldn't exist because it's not going to move the needle one way or the other. That's what's so just mind boggling about it. It's just how petty this shit is. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Well, some like to say, you know, like you get into habits throughout life, and his habit is grifting. Yeah, I guess. He keeps up the habit.

So, as we know, the Republicans this week moved to do an impeachment inquiry into President Biden. And as we continue to document on our Sunday shows, Republicans cannot be bothered to keep the quiet part, quiet, and have to say it right out loud. Here's Republican Troy Nell's on what he's hoping to gain from an impeachment inquiry. Representatives, what are you hoping to gain from an impeachment inquiry? All I can see is Donald J. Trump 2024, baby.

Yep, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you don't have to say anything else. No, because you're not trying to gain truth or facts or transparency or anything like that. It's just, I'm so fucking sick of these people. Benghazi Part 2, baby.

We are so broken. Like so broken. I'm just like, I'm looking out my window just beckoning the aliens, beckoning them. Like, I can't make the Christmas lights bright enough. Come, come, come. Get me. America is fucking trash. The globe. Earth is ghetto. Like, take it away. It's a bad sign when you would rather be prog. Oh, man. All the American people need infrastructure and many things from their government, the Republican House chose to instead do that impeachment inquiry into President Biden,

and when they weren't doing that, they decided to discuss why we need whole milk in schools. Very important stuff here. So here we have the Congresswoman from Dingbatville, Virginia Fox, telling us why. The nutrients in whole milk, like protein, calcium, and vitamin D, provide the fuel Santa needs to travel. the whole globe in one night. Whole milk is the unsung hero of his Christmas journey. Protein helps build and repair Santa's muscles. Hoisting heavy sacks of gifts up and down the chimney is no easy task. Calcium is vital for strong bones. It is calcium that keeps Santa strong and sturdy as he dashes from rooftop to rooftop. And vitamin D is essential to a strong immune system.

Santa absolutely needs one as he braves the cold, wintry night. You see, it's not just the magic of the season that helps Santa deliver presence worldwide. It's also the fortifying nutrients of whole milk. I can't take any more. I need Nick Joseph. Nick Joseph, who famously said, oh, no, baby, what is you doing? I'm not familiar with this, to be honest. Oh, that's a huge meme. Oh, okay.

Because as I'm listening to that, all I'm thinking is, you're talking about Santa Hall and Sacks? And drinking calcium rich. Bitch, he's fake. Like, I wanted to scream out. Like, how come no one did that? He's also obese. Yes, yes, he sure is. But he's not real.

Like that's the, you know, like, it's just, it's not real. So what are you doing? Are we, like, I swear to God, I know that I ask this often, but are we the leftovers? Like, did it happen already? And we were just left behind? It's either that or it's like, it's the Truman Show. Jesus Christ. And none of this is real.

And it's all being done just, just to fuck with me and you. You, Danielle. Some days I feel like this. And I feel like Jesse is the one who's the magician. Just pull the plug. Jesse is the Ed Harris character. I personally only observe one Santa, and that's Billy Bob Thornton's Bad Santa. Yes, excellent movie.

That's the only one I truly believe in it. I believe he was powered by lots of alcohol in that movie, as I recall. Also, do we need to put a warning on this for anyone who might be listening with young children in the room since Danielle is? is sitting out to hear shouting about Santa being naked. You think that that's the thing they shouldn't let their kids listen to about the show? Seamus, can you put a little trigger warning before this one, please? Thank you. I don't want a triggered liberals from the center.

We're ruining adulthoods with all this news. It's true. You're right. You're right. It's true. Especially as we're right upon the holiday week. Okay. So speaking of absolute bullshit, some of the amazing accounts that,

document Fox News like Cat for Media Matters and decoding Fox News. Routinely point out that Fox, and especially Jesse Waters, have drifted from the days of the white power hour that Tucker Carlson hosted into just the most asinine conversations you've ever seen. I don't know if you guys caught this week the situation from the Jersey Shore discussing how taxes are too high this week with him. You may remember the situation from when he went to jail for tax evasion. So clearly he thinks taxes are too high That's implied from the jail sentence, I believe. Anyway, what's allowed Jesse to show off some of the utter bullshit that he puts on his show?

Be mean if I pulled a bait and switch on my wife for a Christmas gift. Hear me out. I was just told that they were selling fake handbags right outside on 6th. What if I was to buy a real handbag like a really nice one? And then I was going to get a fake one too. And I gave her the fake one first, just to see if she could tell. Text me about that tomorrow. Why is he still married?

I don't even know his wife, but I just want to say you could probably do better. Let the air out of her tires. Gave back their adopted dog. He's such a fucking loser. I've run out of things to say about him. He's just so goddamn dumb. Eddie, the question I have for you, though, like, is this a new feature of Fox that just the most asinine bullshit is on all the time?

Or is Jesse resurrecting something like, you know, fine. better than Danielle and I. What do you see here? Fox is qualitatively worse than when I was there, and I'm not saying it was good when I was there. But I literally haven't watched a minute of it since I left. But, you know, I see enough clips online, and thanks to you, Jesse. Much like the Republican Party, they just took all their worst instincts and all their

worst features. They made the plane out of the whole thing. So that's all they are now. So I think the answer is probably there was always shit like this there, but it wasn't 24-7, and now it's just 24-7. You had Shep Smith doing two hours during the day, and he was good. You had Brett Baer's show, which was, you know, it was conservatively slanted, but it was, it was good for what it was back then. You know, you had glimpses of stuff like that.

And now it's just, you know, between Fox and Friends and outnumbered and the five and Jesse Waters and whoever's on after Jesse Waters, I can't remember. I believe that's Sean Hannity. Oh, yeah, I guess that is Sean Hannity. And whoever's on after Sean Hannity, I can't remember. It's just 24-7 of this bullshit. That's where the money is. The money was never in news.

The money was never in Shep Smith. And so that's what they'd become. Well, good luck to his wife. Yeah. I'd now like to think of myself as the Santa Claus of Clips of Fox News. So I think that that's going to be my costume. for this year. By the way, is he basically admitting that his wife doesn't watch his show? I'm just going to say this. As someone whose lovely partner listens to the shows I make,

I don't blame any partner for not listening to them or wanting more of their partner. I sometimes can't believe mine does. So I'm not going to actually cast a dispersion on him for that one. Okay. I am, but, you know, that's me. Folks, I am very happy to welcome to the new abnormal. Hein de Haas, who is a sociologist and geographer, whose latest book, How Migration Really Works, has been referred to as a clear and rigorous corrective on our distorted ideas around migration. Hi, and welcome. Thank you.

I want to open up. There is a piece that was written in The Guardian. entitled How Migration Really Works by Hein DeHas, a Review. And I wanted to go to the three areas that they kind of pulled out, where you say a paradox arises as we look at migration, which is when we're looking at migration, there is an urge to have open borders, to have open global markets so that people can stay competitive,

Then there is to also protect the rights of those immigrants that come to countries to work and to study or settle as they write here. And then a third is to respect the wishes of citizens who wish to see immigration limited or even reduced. And this is referred to as a paradox because these three things, as was written here and as you discuss, can't all be fulfilled at the same time. Can you speak to that? Yeah, this is a trilemma. It's not even a dilemma. It's a trilemma. So in the United States, but all across the West, we've created these open market economies and we like sort of free trade, free exchange. We have also, you know, made our labor markets really flexible, as we call it. It's easy to hire and fire people. And it also means we've created all sorts of jobs that native workers generally

don't want to do. And there's also other factors like, you know, aging and people getting better and better educated. It means a lot of jobs, lower skilled jobs, are no longer. longer being fulfilled by native workers. So we see huge labor shortages in the US as well, particularly after COVID. It's an all time high. Unemployment is very low. There's all sorts of jobs that are not being picked up a native workers. And migrant workers basically fill the gap. And we've made it in a way very easy because it's very easy to get work, even if you don't have papers, if you're undocumented migrant, there's barely any enforcement. And it means that in a way those workers are much more needed than you'd think if you listen to politicians who talk about cracking down on illegal migration

and things like that. It is very difficult to reconcile a sort of political wish to really reduce migration to a large extent and want to have that open market economy. You can't have both at the same time. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too. And in a way, that's what politicians seem to want. And the biggest crunch in a way is with the lowest skilled work, things like cleaning, catering, agriculture, name it.

All these jobs are predominantly done by migrant workers. And this is kind of an open secret. And what I find particularly striking is you'll hear politicians a lot about trolling the border, building more fences, and so on and so forth. But at the same time, if you look at labor enforcement, in the U.S. over the last few years, the annual number of employers that got prosecuted for employing undocumented migrants somewhere between 10 and 20, which is about equal to the chance to be hit by lightning. And it shows that behind all the tough rhetoric of politicians, there is no real willingness to do something on it,

because the labor is very convenient and needed in a way. So that's that gap that is huge between what's being said. And in a way, you cannot have end this open market economy and you want much less immigration. You cannot have both. You know, what I find really fascinating, and I'm so glad that you brought that point up just now, which is the prosecution of those that employ migrants. Because I often think to myself as someone who is not a scholar in this field but pays attention to it, is that people come, whether it is to countries in Europe, whether it is to the United States,

because they are seeking better opportunities, employment, work, life for themselves, for their families. And they're coming also because they know that there is work here. It would seem that if you really wanted to stop this quote-unquote influx, which we'll get to in a minute, because you also argue that the numbers are not what we all think that they are, that they have stayed fairly steady for the last century. But if you really wanted to stop this pipeline, if you will, of people coming in to these different countries, then you would stop those or put extraordinary taxes, penalties, and what have you, on the employers that are looking for low-waged workers to exploit.

It would be you go to the top as opposed to a tax. the folks at the bottom. If for not opportunity, they would not come. Yeah, we penalize the workers, and this is what research shows. There is a very high correlation between the state of the economy and the level of immigration. That both goes for legal immigration and undocumented migration. So when there's not jobs, when the economy is doing bad and unemployment is high, and not many migrants come. And we are living now in the opposite situation with huge labor shortages, also driven by the sort of post-COVID withdrawal of native works from all sorts of jobs. And there are real jobs there. And there is this illusion being created

that people are just showing up for nothing. Most migrants, because migration is not what people think this desperate flight from misery. In general, it is an investment and it costs a lot of money. And most people wouldn't make that journey and put all that money into their journey or applying for a visa without having real opportunities. I was in El Paso last January on the U.S.-Mexican border and we also went to see her at Juarez on the other side. And we talked to a lot of migrants and refugees and they'll talk about difficulties back home, but they also talk about having family in the US, knowing there's jobs in the US, and they're not lying, they know this. So you're right. If you were really serious about cracking down on this, you'd have to start with where the demand

is and that is with the employers and the businesses. But that obviously would massively hit you as business. And that, I think, explains why there's no real political willingness. So what happens, politicians put up this show around the border, and this is not new. This is started both in America and in Europe in the late 1980s, early 1990s. We've been trying to stop this cross-border flow for the last 30 years. It hasn't helped, basically, because migrants will find a way around those obstacles, and actually most undocumented migrants came legally and then overstayed their visas, as we call it. So even a perfect wall wouldn't stop that. But you cannot explain that indeed without this labor demand. Of course, there's other factors for

people cross-borders, but that has really been the main driver. It's labor. order to choose. The thing that I do want to get into next is what is highlighted in this piece, and I'll just read it, stating, quote, global migration levels have stayed remarkably stable since the Second World War. With international migrants accounting for about 3% of the world's population, refugees account for an even tinier proportion at a relatively consistent 0.3%. I want to talk about those numbers because if you were, and again, I'm here in the United States, If you're looking at any news channel as we get into an election season, it will tell you that we have crises beyond record, that we are off the charts.

We are seeing that in some ways because I live right now in New York City, and we have a mayor here that has decided to slash the city's budget basically in half and is saying it is because we need to house a migrant population that has grown to hundreds of thousands. So what do you make of the numbers globally that say that we're remarkably stable? Does the showmanship that we're seeing right now over the past couple of years actually match an increase? Or who's telling the truth here? What is? Depends on the level. So that 3% figure is important to show that global migration is not somehow spinning out of control. We often have this image that, you know, poverty, inequality, warfare, that more and more people are

on the move, that there are growing migration pressures of desperate people trying to cross borders. That image is simply not correct. Most migrants move within the law, actually, a number of migrants crossing borders without authorization is a minority still. But it doesn't mean there's no local problems. You cannot deny that. And there has been a real search in migration to the US over the last 10 to 15 years. But it has been mainly about legal migration. And again, it's linked to temporary migrants being allowed into the US, particularly hiring. skilled migrants, but also we talk about students, some lower skilled migrants, because of those needs, those labor needs. So business sector has effectively lobbied Congress and the government to allow

more legal migrants in. What we've seen after COVID was over, I think some economists called this the Great Withdrawal. A lot of native workers that lost their jobs during COVID didn't return. And we've also seen a huge economic upsearch, which is always a recipe for high immigration. But the numbers of legal migrants allowed in has lagged behind. So you see this. increasing mismatch between huge labor shortages, which are on an all-time high in the U.S. right now. Unemployment is at a 50-year low right now, and the lack of legal channels. And that is primarily the explanation why you find so many people crossing the border right now. There have been earlier searches, if you go back to the 1990s, of unauthorized cross-border movements,

that were also driven by, you know, labor shortages, particularly in the agricultural sector, but now it's much broader. It's also in the service sector. So there are all sorts of structural reasons why migration is indeed increasing. But in that sense, it's not unprecedented. Currently, 14 to 15% of the US population is an immigrant. There was roughly the same a century ago. So if you talk about relative levels, we have to put things in perspective. There have been earlier periods of similar levels of migration to the United States

and also other countries. There are a couple of other factors, right, that isn't just about labor, right? And labor shortages. we are experiencing two wars. We are experiencing climate change on unprecedented levels that is going to create a rash of, quote, unquote, climate refugees that will no longer be able to live in the geographical spaces that they are because they will be uninhabitable because of climate. While the numbers have remained relatively stable, I'm wondering what you're thinking.

thoughts are on these other outside factors outside of labor and demand and shortage of workers that can and will potentially alter these numbers in years to come. And is that also part of, I guess, the media-driven anxiety and story that is told about migration and immigration in the West? Yeah. So on refugees, of course, political factors play a role and there has been a lot of instability, if you look at Venezuela, for instance, or Guatemala, in the vicinity of the United States, of course, these are contributing factors. And refugee migration is much more shock-wise. It goes with high peaks and deep valleys. And right now, there is a number of conflicts or difficult situations, political repression in the vicinity of the United States. And of course,

some of that spills over into the US. The point is more that it wouldn't have been conceivable to have so many migrants crossing the borders in combination with those economic pool factors where we talk about. Now, we talk about climate change. It is really interesting. I've done quite some research on that in North Africa myself, and I've joined big research teams where we work together with migration researchers and climate researchers. Basically, don't confirm this idea that however dangerous climate change is, and I do think climate change is a huge problem, and it's one of the main challenges that humanity is facing. To link that with the specter of mass migration simply is not backed up by any fact. And for the following reasons, first of all, we know

from existing research, for instance, on the effect of floods and droughts and other national disasters on migration, that the vast majority of people tries to stay at home. And when people leave, they live on short distances and will go back. But the most vulnerable populations, just imagine a small peasant somewhere in Central America or in Africa that is experiencing a huge drought. And of course, these populations are most sensitive to those changes, most vulnerable. It will deprives them of the means to move. And that means that they can get stuck, actually. We also saw that with Hurricane Katrina and in New Orleans that the poorest populations couldn't move away. So if we're really concerned about the effect of climate change, we're better focus on those people who cannot

move. And that explains the paradox that some studies have shown that in years of drought, long distance migration often goes down, not up, because people don't have the resources. And that is based on the sort of wrong analysis that we have in general about what causes migration. from the global south to the global north, that primarily it is development, paradoxically, that gives people the means and the money and the aspirations, think about the effective education to move. So it is not a coincidence that the dominant out-migration countries are not the poorest countries in the world.

Mexico is definitely not a poor country. Or think of Turkey and Europe or the Philippines. These are typically middle-income countries. So when poor countries get rich, more people start moving from villages to cities, but also abroad, because migration is expensive. It's an investment. So we have to revise the way we look at migration. So climate change is a problem, but to link it to massive international movement simply

doesn't make sense if we look at the evidence. It's mainly going to be local movement. Most people want to stay close to home and the poorest of the poorest wouldn't have the means to make it over these long distances. That doesn't diminish the problem, but the link with Mars international migration simply has no factual basis. You know, in this country, in the United States, as well as in Europe, it hasn't seemed to matter what political party is in charge at any given time because the system doesn't seem to

change. Now, the tactics, depending on who is in charge, can become increasingly crueler, more depraved as we saw in this country under the Trump administration. But the rate of deportations, the raid of incarceration, those things really waver. They go back and forth depending on the political party. And so in your mind, you're a scholar in the area you look across, you know, countries. Is there a way to actually fix this or is the goal never to really fix it? It's just kind of like playing three-card Monty and just moving, you know, the pieces around the table. I can never look into the minds of politicians, but you really get the impression when you look at the evidence. And we actually have hard evidence with my team at

the University of Oxford. We've analyzed 6,500 policy changes in migration across the West. And we found two really interesting things. First of all, if we look at the actual rules for immigration, the number of legal migrants admitted, like in the United States, for instance, temporary migrants admitted, have been loosened up. And that is particularly for the most skilled workforce, but also students. So immigration policies overall have become more liberal, to our surprise. What we see is an increase in tough talk and rather symbolic measures on the border that won't stop migration. And it seems to be a case of political showmanship to distract the attention. away from the fact that immigration policies aren't as tough as politicians proclaim them to be.

And the second striking finding we found, there is no real difference between the left and the right between conservatives and Democrats in terms of the kind of policies they enact. You mentioned Trump with his deportation programs, but also Obama was nicknamed by critics a deportor-in-chief. And ever since Ronald Reagan gave an amnesty to lots of undocumented migrants, different administrations, both Democrat and Republican, have driven our border enforcement. So that sort of show has been continuing some presidents a bit more than others, but there isn't this huge difference between a conservative and democratic politicians the left and the right in the real policies they make. And that comes back to the other thing I was mentioning,

because politicians may talk to off on immigration to win votes and to give this impression of being in control and to create this image of a strong leader. But at the same time, and they're under huge pressures by economic forces, by business lobbies, to not do this, because it is a very important source of labor. This is not only about undocumented migration. I want to emphasize that the large majority of immigrants also in the US is legal migrants, and this is legal admissions have gone up spectacularly over the last two decades. And that's been part of government policy.

But that's not where you read about in the newspaper or not what you hear politicians telling you. They give this impression of toughness. And it seems to be, yeah, almost like a smokescreen. they're pulling up so that we don't see what's actually really happening. And I think that is becoming a real problem because we've been trying out the same policies over and over and over again. It's not the first time that US administrations have announced a big border crackdown, the same in Europe. And we've been doing the same for over three decades. It hasn't really helped.

And one definition of insanity is trying to do the same over and over again and expect different results. So I think we've really reached a state that this is no longer credible. As long as people don't remember that the same things have already been tried out before. I just think it's a complete illusion. Yeah. Well, Hein de Haas, we really appreciate your work and making the time for the new abnormal folks. The book is how migration really works. You should absolutely check it out. Thank you so much for making the time for us today. Really appreciate you. It was a pleasure to be on a podcast. Thank you. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going.

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