The Daily Beast Podcast - Trump Is Most 'Impotent' President In A Lifetime

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

The Daily Beast’s David Rothkopf joins Joanna Coles to unpack the chaos behind Israel’s strike on Iran—and the confusion inside the the Trump administration's response. From Marco Rubio claiming America had nothing to do with Israel's attack, to Trump scrambling to take credit, Rothkopf lays out why nobody seems to know who approved what, or when. He explains why Trump’s “deal guy” approach to foreign policy has failed everywhere from Gaza to Ukraine, and why Trump’s inner circle of golf buddies and yes-men leaves America weaker and more isolated than ever. Rothkopf calls Trump “the most impotent president in living memory”—and warns that our enemies are laughing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Last night, the American Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, said he didn't know anything about the Israel attacks on Iran. Overnight, Donald Trump said, maybe he did, especially as it looked like they'd worked, and he was actually claiming credit for it. Who best to unpack this situation for us than David Rothgop? He's a former Clinton administration official and he edited foreign policy magazine. He spends all his time talking to people who really know about foreign affairs and the complexity of international relations. So let's not waste any more time. It's a serious moment. Let's get straight into it. David Rothcopp is joining us. David Rothcop, you have an excellent column on today's site. Can you just clear up for us once and for all? Did America actually know that Israel was going to do this, was going to bomb nuclear military facilities in Iran?

No, I can't clear that up for you because I don't think anybody, you know, can who wasn't, you know, in the room. Let me tell you what people are saying, right? The U.S. government last night said, Marker Rubia said, we had nothing to do with this. Please don't hit us. And then Trump overnight started with some true social posts in which he said, well, you know, I knew this was coming and I warned them against it and they could have avoided it. But it was very kind of soft. By this morning, when, you know, it looked like the strikes that achieved their goals,

Trump was like, yeah, this was all part of my four-dimensional chess plant, right? And I'm going to take credit for it. And I'm going to own it. And it even went so far as the Israelis saying Trump gave us the green light and Axios and the Wall Street Journal running stories saying that this was an eight-month plan and the U.S. was in it for the ride the hallway. The experts I know don't think that's true. What they think is true is that the United States was aware Israel was planning this and that they felt that they could persuade the Israelis not to do it as they got closer and closer to a deal. But as they got closer and closer to a deal,

that made Beebe uncomfortable, and that Netanyahu essentially went off on his own, prepared to launch the strike now, and then notified the U.S. shortly before the strike that it was actually going to happen, which caught Rubio and some other folks in the administration flat-footed, and they're now scrambling to get their stories straight on it. And of course, it's all happening in real time. So Marco Rubio puts out there, we had nothing to do it. and Donald Trump can't resist a pretending that he knew about it all along because he can't stand the idea that something would be happening without him knowing. How do Marco Rubio and Donald Trump work together in a situation, do you think?

I think Marco Rubio does what he thinks the Secretary of State is supposed to do and Donald Trump does what he wants to do. And I think he doesn't really pay much attention to Marco Rubio's feelings in all of this. and he's a very impulse-driven guy. And he does, as you say, wants to be at the center of this. I saw a comment on some social media feed earlier that said Donald Trump wants to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.

Oh, what a fantastic quote. That is a brilliant quote. So let's also talk, I will not forget that quote. Let's also talk, can we, about his golf. buddy, Steve Whitkoff, who is special envoy to the Middle East, as well as special envoy to Russia and is supposed to be dealing with Vladimir Putin and helping solve the Ukraine-Russia war. What is his actual role here? Well, you know, as it turns out, having a special negotiator for all things who doesn't

know anything about foreign policy is a problem. You remember in the early days of the administration, Whitkoff was off and he was like talking to the Qataris and maybe we're going to have a deal in Gaza and people are like, wow, this guy is great and this is Trump's golfing buddy. So Trump was like, wow, this guy's great. He can do everything. Rubio doesn't have to do anything. Now where are we? You know, five months later. Ukraine, Whitkoff goes. He kisses Putin's ass. Nothing. Nothing. We have gotten nowhere on Ukraine. Gaza. Gaza. Bad, getting worse. Having this war is going to make things worse for the people in Gaza, for sure. Iran, bad. Whitkoff is O for everything at this point because Vladimir Putin, the Iranians, the Israelis, all the players here, they've actually been down this pike before. And they play hardball.

And it's just not the same as like, you know, cutting a daze. real estate deal in New York City with your cronies, you know? So he's not looking as good as he did a few months ago. Do you think he will be quickly removed from his role? I don't think so because I think that would reflect badly on Trump. And I also think Trump likes to have around him golf buddies, you know. And if Trump can spin this into a success, great. You know, I think Trump is still, you know, laboring under the

misconception that he is the great dealmaker. And so he's just one clever intervention away from changing Putin's mind, changing Ayatollah's mind in Iran. And oh, yeah, getting 90 deals in 90 days. You know, we're sort of on day 70 or so. There are zero deals. And I think that's the bigger question. And it was a point I tried to make in the column that I did today for you guys, which is Trump, you know, the dealmaker, hasn't actually made any deals. And he is not growing an influence on the world stage. He's actually shrinking. In fact, I would argue he may be the most impotent president of the United States that we've seen in our lifetimes because he's alienated our allies. He has undermined our economy. He's attacked the international system. And, you know, the

stuff going on in L.A. that's not irrelevant because people around the world look at it and they say the U.S. is collapsing inward. And, you know, the final point is look at Mark Carney coming to the United States. Look at the German Chancellor coming to the United States. Look at the comments of the president of Mexico or the president of France. People are making fun of Trump publicly on stage because they just don't think he's a serious character. So, David, you were an official in the Clinton administration, you were the editor of foreign affairs. You have been around this subject matter for a long time. You've just said that you think Trump is the most impotent president, certainly in living memory.

Can you just outline for us why it's so bad to have someone that thinks that the business deal is the right format for complicated foreign negotiations when nuclear weapons are. at the center of a lot of those negotiations. You bring up a really, really important point. You know, for a long time, there's this myth that what we need is a business guy. Business guy is a dealmaker. Business guy can get things done. You know, it goes back to like Ross Perot. It actually goes back further to Herbert Hoover.

It tends not to work out so well because businesses and governments are different. They're motivated by different things. Governments have very long-term timeframes. governments. The guy in charge is not the CEO in our democracy. It's the people, right? It's millions of people. The public good is supposed to figure in all of this. There are all these political hurdles that they have to do. There are all these sovereign nations that you have to deal with. And many of the actors aren't rational. In business, there is this sense, you know, you're in it to make money. I'm in it to make money. Let's figure out of way we can both do that. In international affairs, that's not always the case. So if you're going to be a business person in government, it would help to actually have some government experience. Of all the presidents in American history, starting with George Washington, there has only been one with no government experience. And that was Donald Trump the first time out. The problem is that even

though now he has four years of experience, Trump doesn't learn anything. He thought he knew it all to begin with. And so he doesn't like take away the lessons that might make him better at this. And we're seeing that. He's off to a worse start now, domestically, internationally, economically, foreign policy than he was the last time. And he got off to a terrible start the last time. So not only does it help to understand government experience, but it helps to have I don't know, intellectual curiosity, the willingness to listen to advisors, you know, an ability to question yourself, maybe just a little smidgen of humility. None of that exists in Donald Trump. Well, he's also strangely under-traveled for a president, too, isn't he? I mean, one thinks of him,

really, you think of the nexus of New York, Washington, Mar-a-Lago. I mean, as far as I know, he rarely travels or he rarely traveled abroad other than to do business deals. And certainly not, you never thought of him taking a luxury, a holiday in Italy or France or going for the culture. It was purely for business. Yeah, well, I think that's right. I mean, he did demonstrate, you know, this week that he's really into culture because he went to see Le Mise at the Kennedy Center. Why it's a mouth of it so much? It's a musical about the French Revolution.

What could he possibly like about that? Because he doesn't understand what it's about. Somebody asked him as he was going in. Which character do you like? The hero or the villain? And he goes, well, that's a very complicated question. He just doesn't understand. He goes to be seen, to hold to Melania's thumb or she was holding his, I don't know.

He's holding her thumb, which maybe at this point all he can afford to hold. Yeah, no, I think that's very expensive. And so on overcharge him for the entire hand. Yeah, no, you were exactly right. But, but, you know, you know that when Trump went to visit, I don't know, place X, you know, he went for the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow, he wasn't like, hey, let me see the countryside. Let me meet people. Let me understand how this country works. He wasn't.

He was like in a little rich guy bubble, goes, gets off his plane, goes to the fanciest hotel, hangs out with some rich people. people, gets back in the plane, and it's like oligarch land. That's where he lives, is oligarch land. And they're on yachts, too. You know, it's the same people in the same dumb pink pants. And they've got the same kind of interest. They speak English. They read the Wall Street Journal. They talk about the market. They talk about their golf scores. They talk about, you know, their second or or wife or whatever it is that they're doing. And they're not really that interested in the world. Certainly he's not.

I mean, I've met a lot of people like that. And every single one that I met, every one of them, without exception, of the hundreds that I've met, they were more intellectually curious than Donald Trump. David, just hold that thought. We're going to take some messages. And we're back with David Rothkopf. So what are our so-called enemies, Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, thinking about this moment? Well, Vladimir Putin is really uncomfortable right now because Iran is a really important ally.

Iran, you know, is building drones for them to use in Ukraine. Russia doesn't have a lot of allies. And, you know, so there, you know, having Iran with a nuclear weapon is better for Russia. a little bit, but certainly having Iran destroyed or sent the gas is much worse for Russia. Xi Jinping got to be the happiest guy in the world. You know, Trump didn't say, you know, he said some admiring things about Xi Jinping, but we knew his bromance was with Vladimir Putin, right? But Xi Jinping, he wins every time.

Every time Trump steps up to bat, Xi Jinping wins. You know, the U.S. economy gets weaker. China benefits. The U.S. turns away scientists, China benefits. The U.S. becomes, you know, less competitive because of tariffs, shows it doesn't care about the international system. China, you know, can lead by, and contrast itself by example. It wins. U.S. has riots in the street or sends in troops or looks like an authoritarian nation. China wins by comparison. U.S. tries to stand up to China. China wins. Xi Jinping has had a great six months. The Chinese people I talk to, you know, they kind of laugh under their breath.

And they say, Donald Trump is great president for us. Bad president for the United States, good president for China. So Joe Biden, the previous president, was supposed to be an extant. Thanks for reminding me. Well, I think so much everywhere all at once. It's hard to even think that he actually stepped down earlier this year. It feels like a lifetime ago. But my only point was that he loved foreign affairs, took it very seriously,

was surrounded by people like Anthony Blinken, the former Secretary of State, who took it incredibly seriously. What are all those people who spent their lifetime thinking about this? What are they all saying now? What are they saying to each other? I know that you talk to them. Why do it? These people are despairing because there's watching the United States fritter away, everything that took a hundred years to build up, right? I mean, you know, in the last hundred years, the United States went from being outside the international system, really, to being inside it, to being the leader of it, to being the architect of it, to being after the end of the Cold War, sort of the hyperpower, the soul superpower.

and, you know, we had these assets. One of them was all our alliances. Trump is attacking this. One was the fact that people trusted us. Not that we always did the right thing, but, you know, the full faith and credit of the United States government was a foundation of our economy. The fact that we signed a treaty, we would follow through in the trade. That's gone.

Trump has gotten rid of that, you know. The first, you know, in 2018, he got rid of the Iran nuclear deal that he's been trying to rebuild this time. We don't, you know, he doesn't have standing with his peers. We are weakening from within. We were once seen as a beacon of democracy. We're certainly not seen as that anymore. And so, you know, and on top of all of this,

Trump has gutted the mechanisms in the United States government that provide presidents with the kind of advice. that Blinken would give Biden. I'm not saying Biden made all the right decisions. He clearly did not. But from, you know, 1947 on, there's been a NSC, which is, you know, advised presidents

and brought the cabinet together to advise them. Trump just National Security Council. Trump cut it by 100 people. Looks like he's going to cut it in half. It'll be the smallest it's been in a couple of decades. There hasn't been a national. Security Advisor since the beginning of May. Marco Rubio is doing not just double duty, but quadruple duty.

He's got four other jobs. Trump, we know, has had 12 or so intelligence briefings in the course of the past five months because he doesn't like them. And so now Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, is trying to figure out how to do an intelligence briefing that looks like a Fox News show because that's the only thing she can get Trump to pay attention to. And so the whole process of sort of collecting the intelligence of experts, getting it to the president so he can make an informed decision, that's gone. So basically, everything that you need to do the right thing is gone.

All the things that we had going to our advantage are gone. And, you know, foreign policy professionally, I'm not talking about Democrats, by the way. Talking about senior people in the Bush administration. I'm talking about completely independent thinkers from the military. Everybody is in despair because this is not just sad. It's dangerous. You mentioned other Democratic leaders before, obviously Mark Carney, the new premier in Canada, Claudia Scheinbaum in Mexico, the German Chancellor.

Is there anyone likely to step up? I understand they don't have the economy, obviously, that America does. but is there anybody, who do you think among them is the most likely to take the lead here? Well, the question is take the lead in what? On a lot of issues on the international stage, China, by virtue of its size, is going to be in a leadership role. Among the community of democracies, I think it's going to take a while to sort out. I think the leadership in the EU has an important role to play, the collective leaders. So Ursula von der Leyen or Christine Lagarde, who have stood up well.

to Trump and have riot really tried to balance it. And they've an important voice to play. In Europe, right now, Macron sort of has the edge in terms of influence. But merits came, and I think he made a good impression, was a little stronger than people thought he would be. Mark Carney has, you know, the Canadians have sort of stepped up and made an impression as well. You know, I don't think we know who will emerge at the end, except we know. it won't be Donald Trump. The most important job, the most important person, the most important country in the world is just not going to play the role it played in the past. David, thank you very much.

It's a very strange moment for America. Very strange moment indeed. But thank you, as always, for your insightful observations. And I hope you will come back on again soon and we can watch the evolving situation. I am always available and someday, who knows, maybe we'll talk about something that's more positive than what we've just been discussing. It's hard to imagine that right now. It does feel like the world order has really changed and it's all up for grabs. It certainly does. And I don't think it's going to be made any better when, you know, later this week, Donald Trump plays toy soldiers in Washington. You know, it's, it looks like we're distracted.

it. You mean with the birthday parade? Yeah, with the birthday parade. It's like, you know, the Tsar, you know, I guess Tsar Nicholas the second used to like to play with toy soldiers while Russia collapsed because it made him feel like he was a general. And I think, you know, we're sort of in the same kind of period where Trump is like, well, maybe I should focus on paving over Jackie Kennedy's Rosecard. Yeah. Strange times indeed. David, thank you as ever. And We will talk to you soon and I want to urge people to read your column in The Daily Beast. It's sobering indeed. Thank you.

Who better to hear from than David Rothkopf at a moment like this with his sober reflections on what's going on. And he understands the crazy going on as well as the seriousness of the moment. His columns are available at the DailyBeast.com where you can subscribe to the Beast for minute-by-minute updates on what's going on. feel free to subscribe to this podcast, tell all your friends, share it with your friends. And don't forget to leave us a comment on YouTube. We love hearing from you. And what I'm really impressed by is the level of intelligence of the comments and also just the threads of conversations going on by many of you who are highly involved in the political world. We'll be back tomorrow with Michael Wolfe and a look at.

whether or not Trump was right to panic about the crowd sizes for his birthday parade. Until then, be Beast. And this podcast was produced by Devin Rodgerino and Anna von Ersson. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at thedailybeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline head to the dailybeast.com slash membership slash

podcast and sign up today.