The Daily Beast Podcast - Trump Is Set to Hit a ‘Financial Brick Wall’ Within Weeks

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner tells The New Abnormal that the former president could soon see his assets seized. Plus! Andy Levy speaks with Steven Monacelli, the Texas Observer’s Special Investigative Correspondent, about a new social network built on a vision of Christian supremacy in America that’s gaining traction with GOP politicians. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. What an excellent show we have today.

For federal prosecutor and MSNBC legal analyst, Glenn Kirchner, is here to update us on all the goings on in Donald Trump's oh, so many legal battles. Then Texas Observer Special Investigator correspondent Stephen Monticelli will join us to talk about a new social network built on a vision of Christian supremacy in America that's gaining traction with geopolitical. politicians. But first, let's have some fun. Well, Daniel, we're now on the other side of Super Tuesday. And what it basically means is that although Donald Trump hasn't officially clinched the Republican nomination, we are pretty much in general election territory now, if we weren't before this. Basically, anything that's left is a formality. And Trump will probably next week pass the number of delegates he needs to clinch the nomination. And Nikki Haley has dropped out. And Joe Biden lost American Samoa in a shocking and stunning turn of events that will forever alter American electoral

politics. Where do we go from here, Danielle? I feel like I'm already in hell, so it's hard to figure out where else we would drill down to. Look, I will say this about Nikki Haley. I'm glad that she decided to hang on throughout Super Tuesday. I will say that she probably would have fared a lot better. Had she, oh, I don't know, realized that she was in a primary against Donald Trump from the beginning and started acting like she started acting at the end in the beginning. And actually going after and asking Republicans, is this the best that you can fucking do? A man that's been indicted four times is guilty of rape and has 91 felony. counts against him. Is that the best that you think the country can do? Like, I think that she could have

positioned herself better. And let me just be very clear. I don't like Nimrata, but I think that she could have presented a better case and given herself a lot more runway than she did. As it pertains to Donald Trump, it's just like, is this the best that Republicans can fucking do? It's like the people that they have decided to put up as like their saviors to a, are like from the sewer. I mean, just like Donald Trump on paper couldn't get a job at fucking Walmart. Do you know what I'm saying? Like not to insult workers at Walmart, but it sure as hell is not as supposed to be

as elevated as the president of the United States. And yet he couldn't get a job in retail with the record that he has. But somehow it's still able to run for president and clinch the Republican nomination and get a fucking endorsement from the tortoise himself on the way out is just beyond me. It's beyond me. Yeah. You said, can the Republican Party do any better than this? I mean, no, they can't.

We know that. Right now he's got a thousand and 60 delegates. Nikki Haley has 91. She does have a not insignificant number of actual votes. Mm-hmm. That's true. Look, I don't know how that plays out when we move to a general. election. I don't know what percentage of that vote is never Trump for real, for real, and how much of it is

never Trump until it comes down to it. That seems to be the case a lot of times. I mean, we even saw this past week Mitch McConnell endorsed Donald Trump. There's a lot of leeway in the word never for a of never Trump people. You know, I hope a chunk of those go to Joe Biden or at the very least stay home. And there was a super PAC that was for Haley called Primary Pivot. And it's now changed its name to Haley voters for Biden. So there's that. And then, you know, we saw Joe Biden get up and give a speech and say that, you know, he said Donald Trump made it clear he doesn't want Nikki Haley supporters. I want to be clear there was a place for them in my campaign. I'll be honest. I saw some griping on the left about this, which I think is incredibly misplaced. Because we're talking now about full-on

cut-throat electoral politics. You take the votes where you could get them. I don't think Biden should move to the right to get those votes, but I think he should welcome them and he should explain to them that we cannot have an insane person like Donald Trump as president. So we'll see what happens, but I agree with you. I'm glad she stayed in as long as she did. Not a big fan of hers, but it was good that someone stuck around and at least towards the end was hitting Trump as a Republican. Just one quick note before we move on to the other fucking crazy, which is that I think that Donald Trump openly saying that he don't want those Haley voters is a huge mistake. Because to the point that you made, it is not an insignificant amount of votes that she got. You know, he wasn't beating

her by 70, 80 percentage points. That was not the. case. And so what that should show is that there are still some Republican voters that are like, yeah, we don't want him and did so enough to turn out in a primary. And unlike, you know, Mitch McConnell and the rest of the fucking, you know, Republican lackeys, I'm watching interviews on Sky News and other places with Republicans saying it's too much. I voted for him in 2016 and 2020, but now it's too much. I watched a white man say, I wouldn't trust. Donald Trump in my house with my wife or my daughter. So I damn sure I'm not going to trust him in the White House. That's what he said, a Republican white man, 60-something year old voter. And I would love to

believe that there may be enough to make up the difference, right, that was not huge. We're not talking about huge margins in the states that matter that decide the election. So. Yeah, absolutely. States like Michigan, states like North Carolina. even say Georgia, Arizona. All the states we're very familiar with now, and every four years we become super familiar with, you know, where, again, 10, 20,000 votes could make the difference. If enough of those people like the guy you just described, if they either cross over to Biden or just say, you know, I don't like Biden much either, it's not worth getting out of the house to do this. Who knows? It could make a difference. So again, in complete agreement with you that

I am no fan of Nikki Haley, particularly a lot of the things that she did, early on in this campaign. But I hope maybe she did a service by staying in so long and at least showing Republicans who might be on the fence that there is a different way to go. Mm-hmm. Would you like to talk about the real crazy that we witnessed in Super Tuesday?

Because it's hard to imagine, hard to fucking imagine that there is somebody worse that the Republican Party could nominate other than Donald Trump. But my God. Yeah. This is a guy, this Mark Robinson, who first came on the radar for people outside of North Carolina anyway, for a bunch of things he said. He's been the lieutenant governor there, and he's now the Republican nominee for governor. The list of insane things that he has said is Legion. Anywhere from saying that gay people are maggots, that they are the equivalent of what cows leave behind, that COVID was a globalist conspiracy to destroy Donald Trump. He said, I'm, I'm looking at a Guardian article right now because you could read 30 articles on this guy and just find different examples of crazy shit. He said he referred to the movie Black Panther.

We're talking about a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie here, a superhero movie. He said it was, quote, created by an agnostic Jew and put to film by a satanic Marxist and was only created to pull the shekels out of your Schwarzsa pockets. Sparta being a Yiddish derogatory term for black people. You know, he has quoted Hitler approvingly. I mean, this guy is the real deal in terms of just that shit. And this is now the Republican choice to be on the ballot for the governorship of the state of North Carolina. Like, I will say this. And everyone hold on to your hats.

I didn't think that it was ever going to be possible. But I miss Herschel Walker. I don't understand. Where do they go to find black people like this? I don't. I don't know. I don't know. But like, when they pulled out Herschel Walker in Georgia, I said, huh, okay.

And then go find this piece of shit in North Carolina. The man is on camera saying that women shouldn't be allowed to vote. Is it only white men's vote that you're trying to court? But I, you know, here's what I say to the people in North Carolina boy. It won't be enough to just, like, beat this man by like a percentage or two points. Like, you all need to show. the fuck out. Because this is absolutely insane. Like he is a bigot. He is a homophobe, a transphobe. He is an anti-Semite. He is a misogynist. He is someone who should not be trusted with any type of power

whatsoever ever. And all he is is probably well-funded, just like Clarence Thomas. And the rest of the black men that they find to be able to shuck and jive and smile behind Donald Trump. This ain't it. So North Carolina, please stand all the way up. Yeah, I want to talk about that women's thing, because what he said was very weird and where he said it was very weird in 2020 while he was running for lieutenant governor. He said he would definitely return to the days in America where women couldn't vote. And then the reason he gave was he said, quote, because in those days, we had people who fought for real social change and they were called Republicans. So I don't really know what that means. I'll maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and he's not saying that he believes women shouldn't

vote, but that if given the choice, he would return to those days because it meant this other thing he said, which again, I don't understand. He also went on to say that Republicans ended Jim Crow, which will come as a huge surprise to the descendants of Lyndon Johnson, I would think. And he said this a whole bizarre thing about going back to the days when women couldn't vote. He said this at an event hosted by the Republican women of Pitt County in North Carolina. So I don't know what to, I don't even know what to make of this. It's like, read the room is an overused expression these days, but buddy. I mean, but did they applaud?

Apparently not. Apparently they were pretty quiet about it and did not applaud. On the other hand, he got elected lieutenant governor. So what the hell? There is no bottom for them. But this man, I mean, Again, Herschel Walker looks like a great pick in comparison to this guy, which is a wild thing to say. But I don't know, friends.

But when somebody is outright telling you that they don't want women to vote, that any marginalized group is vermin or excrement, or that you want to take an AR-15 and be able to shoot your opponents, it's the United Nations of Red Flags. Do you know what I'm saying? So pay attention. Well, we have Mark Robinson to kick around, and hopefully we won't come November. Someone we will not have around to kick around anymore is your favorite senator, Danielle, Kirsten, Cinema. Mm, yeah. She announced that she is retiring, that she will not run for re-election in what would have been a three-person race, because remember that cinema left the Democratic Party, and Ruben Gallego is the Democratic.

nominee there and the multi-talented Carrie Lake is the Republican nominee. And do you mean multi-talented because she can vacuum and toss at a podium? Exactly. While using a very soft filter. Kirsten Cinema's retirement, even though she was only senator for one term, it is very clear that it's unfortunate because it was one term too many. Yes, it was. My understanding is that she is retiring to spend more time with her lobbyists.

I don't have enough bad things to say about Kirsten Cinema. This is a woman who started out as sort of a left-wing, you know, social activist. And, you know, was very into issues like the environment and things like that. And then she got elected to the Senate. And then something clicked in her head and she said, I don't want to be that person anymore. Oh, it didn't click in her head, Auntie. It clicked in her pocket. Good.

That's an excellent point. Yes. Someone clicked on her Venmo. And suddenly she was the sort of Joe Manchin. S. Center right, I guess, would be the nicest way to say it. You know, she'll always be remembered for doing a little curtsey as she gave a thumbs down to raising the federal minimum wage. And she will probably be remembered by the voters of Arizona for them never seeing her because she very rarely met with constituents, but had plenty of time for lobbyists and people of that nature.

Wine tastings. Yes, and wine tastings. I forgot about the wine tastings. And she had the gall to get up there and give her little retirement speech. And this is what she said. She said, because I choose civility, understanding, listening, working together to get stuff done, I will leave the Senate at the end of this year. Pick whatever word you want. The gall, the chutzpah, the nerve. None of those words seem strong enough to be quite honest.

And we're talking about her in this section, so she is not either of our, fuck that guy for today. But that's an all-time statement. for someone and I think she needs to be put on the fuck that guy, wall of shame for that. I mean, but will her peplum sleeves fit? First of all, the video that she did, somebody said it so accurately on social where they're just like, this could have been an email. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, no one needed her video with her like condescending tone about civility and about these things. It's just like,

I can't wait to see her on Fox because I'm, certain that that's where she's going or on some oil persons like board of directors. But she got into the Senate and realized that there was money to be made. And that's what she decided. Because I remember when she first came on to the political scene, I'm bisexual. I live in Arizona. Like all of these things. And I was just like, oh, wow, look at this.

Like, she's progressive. And like, look at the state of Arizona putting this, this woman forward. and then it was like she did a complete and total 180. So I feel like, one, you're not leaving because of civility. You're leaving because you don't have a constituency. You're leaving because you sold out the very people who elected you. Like you got reelected and then decided, you know, you were elected as a Democrat and then decided to do a two-step and like change parties.

And I'm telling you, we've seen this happen before. And I honestly think that there should be a rule that you cannot do. that because it is fraudulent it is fraudulent to campaign under one set of beliefs and one set of ideology and then to turn around get elected and be like just kidding i'm a republican like what i'm very happy that she recognized that she had no path forward and that this will be a two-person race but like she just she did that state herself a complete and total disservice but like you know maybe her and mansion team up and go someplace. I'm hoping it's overseas because I don't ever want to see either one of them again. The way that the two of them were just a blockade for climate, for minimum wage,

for all of the things that Democrats supposedly stand for, these two were able to dead those things in the water. They are persona non grata to me. Bye. Don't let the door hit you. Don't want to hear from you. I hope you enjoy your mansions and your Maseratis. Yeah, maybe they can go on like Big Brother UK or something like that. Just go to England and be on one of those shows and leave us alone. I'm actually starting to wonder if the people of Arizona kind of punked us and they just wanted her on the other side of the country. So that's why they voted for her.

Thanks, Arizona. I mean, she was in third place in a three-person race as the incumbent. That is never a good sign. Also, I misspoke a little earlier when I said that Carrie Lake was the Republican nominee. She's not yet, but I mean, she has a huge lead over a guy named Mark Lamb, so I don't think that's going to be an issue, but I just wanted to correct that. Don't even get me started on the performative, the outfits and the glasses, and the, I think maybe we talked about this before. I can't remember. But, like, I'm all for people expressing themselves and, you know, dress the way you want and all that.

I never got the sense with her that that's what it was. I got the sense with her that it was much more, look at me. Performative. Yeah, it was completely performative. It was stolen Riz as far as I'm concerned. And she can't go far enough away. Stolen Riz. Is that a higher or lower offense than stolen valor?

I think it's a little bit lower. But I'm not positive. I need to draw a chart. I need to draw a chart. It'll be in the show notes that don't exist everyone. Go there to look for it. Excellent. Folks, I am so happy to welcome back to the new abnormal.

My friend Glenn Kirchner, you know him, as the host of Justice Matters, as an MSNBC legal analyst, and he has been inside multiple courtrooms alongside Donald Trump to figure out what is happening with these four indictments and 91 charges that we are seeing against him. We just saw Glenn, I believe it was this week, but I don't know where time is going. Alan Weisselberg, let's start there. Alan Weisselberg, former CFO of the Trump organization, who had already serve time in Rikers for his involvement in the fraudulent schemes that the Trump organization has now

been found liable for their mishandling, their lies and their scheming to inflate the values of their businesses in order to recoup bigger loans from banks. They say, oh, it's no fault because the banks say, yeah, we get our money, so we're good. But Judge and Gorin said, yeah, no, you now owe hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of millions of dollars in interest. This is the only good news that we have so far, Glenn, but then Donald Trump's lawyers came out right after and said, but he's broke and said that they could give $100 million, but that's all.

So is he a multi-billionaire or is he broke? Is this going to be the thing that brings him down in the way that tax evasion brought down other mobsters or not? What's your read on this financial bind that, Trump has himself in. Yeah, Danielle, you're right. There's not a lot of good news on the criminal cases front. There's a little bit of good news on the civil cases front.

I'm always looking for that silver lining that is lurking behind the big, dark, orange cloud that is Donald Trump. And I think we can find some good news on the civil case front because, you know, his lawyers like Elena Haba in one breath are telling everyone and the courts, he's worth $14 billion. In the next breath, she's saying, please, please, judge, don't make him put up the full amount

that has been awarded against him because he really doesn't have it and he would really like to file an appeal. But you can't perfect your appeal unless you put up the full amount of the judgment or you get some knucklehead to file a bond on your behalf, some insurer to say,

Donald Trump's good for it. If he loses the appeal, he'll pay out the full half a billion. They can't find anybody to do that. I mean, who would do that? So the good news is on the civil front, it looks like we are very close to the end game for Donald Trump, where Tish James and E. Jean Carroll and her lawyers will be able to begin seizing his assets. We are very close to that right now, because first of all, he put up $5 million in the first E. Jean Carroll case because that's what was awarded. He couldn't even put up a bond for that.

It looks like he couldn't get anybody to issue a bond and guarantee that he would pay out on even the $5 million. I'm inferring that because he took $5 million of his own money where it could have been out there earning interest or being invested and he gave it to the court, actually 5.5 with interest. And the court is holding it in an escrow account. Next, $83.3 million. And that does an account for interest. You know what Elena Haba and his lawyers are doing, going into the court and asking Judge Kaplan, please, please, let him put up a bond for $24 million. The answer is no. This is not a flea market at which you tangle over the price of your appeal. No. So he can't make that full bond. And then half a billion dollars in the New York fraud trial. And they're asking, they're begging Judge N. Goron,

because they've been so polite and civil to judge Ngoron all along, right? They're asking Engoran to do him a solid, do him a favor. You know, don't you all have a fraud forgiveness program, Judge, come on out. They're asking to put up just a hundred million dollar bond, not even that amount in cash. And yet he's got to put up more than half a billion dollars if he wants to appeal that case. So, listen, he's about to hit a financial brick wall, and he's going to hit it hard.

I predict. And then the next move is for Eging Carol and Tish James to begin seizing his assets to try to satisfy these money judgments. That's a little bit of good news. So, I mean, that that that is because I think that at the end of the day, so basically his attorneys, to your point, we're saying he's worth $14 billion. So if he was worth $14 billion, then one would assume he puts up what he owes, he would still be worth $13.5 billion. still making him a multi-billionaire. And because I don't know if you've seen them, Glenn, but he has these hot sneakers on the market. So, you know, that's got to account for something. They're selling like hotcakes. They're already discounted.

So I'm wondering, is this the thing that if Donald Trump's buildings are seized? And now we know what the actual evaluation is for these billions. there isn't a billion that is worth half a billion dollars. No, you know why? Because if he had just one property, one of his third rate resorts or third rate golf courses, just one that was actually worth a billion dollars, he would have bondsmen and insurers beating down his door. Why?

Because all he would have to say is I am pledging to you as collateral, my one billion dollar property, and I'm going to give it to you to secure a half of billion. billion dollar bond so that I can pursue my appeal. And if I lose, you know, you get all of your money back and then some, because you have to pay these people a fee to actually go out on a limb and guarantee or issue you a bond. And it would all be there for the taking. So no worries. But he doesn't have, I don't believe, a property worth a billion dollars or half a billion because then he could easily get a bond, but he can't get a bond. That's why his attorneys keep going over and over again,

hat in hand to these judges saying, please, reduce the amount that he has to put up so he can appeal these cases. So what's the time frame that we're working on before we see Donald Trump panhandling in the subway? I think this week his time is up on the $83 million, E. Jean Carroll 2. So we're going to know within days, whether E. Jean Carroll's lawyers will begin the process of trying to seize assets. I think he has about another two weeks in the big one, the half a billion dollar New York fraud case. So all of this

is about to come to a head. And as I say, he's going to hit a financial brick wall. And I don't know whether that impacts him moving forward in all of his many criminal cases that he has pending against him. But it can't help. If you're going down the drain financially, you're not going to have money to pay your lawyers. You know, we have felt like it's the beginning of the end for Donald Trump for a very long time. And somehow he keeps wiggling out of accountability. The question is, does he run out of rope? Or he managed to stave off all of the consequences until November? And then if horrifically, he gets elected president again, he makes it all go away. And he will have considerable power and ability to make it all go away. What gets me, Glenn, about the financial cases, about these civil

cases is that I believe that Donald Trump, and you tell me, but I believe that Donald Trump is more dangerous now than he was when we started talking years ago when he swore his hand on the Bible in 2017 and started his first term as president. I think that the financial bind these two cases have put him in makes him more dangerous and more of a target of who are supposedly our foreign adversaries, but would very easily become Donald Trump's cronies if the Saudis or Putin or Orban were to say, you know what, we got you. You know, we'll put up the bond. We'll put up, you know, whatever it is. You do us a favor, though. He's even more, potentially even more financially compromised. And a cornered rat is going to attack. It's going to try to chew their way

through everything. The reason I think, and I think the financial leverage that people could use against him is considerable, I almost feel like the reason he will be more dangerous in a second term, God forbid, is because at least in the first term, his instincts were just as bad and just as cruddy and just as evil. But he made the fatal mistake of surrounding himself with at least some people who cared about what happened to American democracy like Jim Mattis and Kelly, one of his many chiefs of staff. And those people really did try to control him and keep him from doing as much damage as I think his inclination was to do to the United States and to our democracy. Gone are the days when he has a single, legitimate democracy loving cabinet

member. For all we know, he'll put Stephen Miller in as the attorney general because Donald Trump has said, among other things, I'll be a dictator on day one. Well, you know what? No dictator on day one ever voluntarily relinquishes dictatorial power on day two. They don't do it, right? And he has already said, I'll use the Department of Justice to go after my enemies. I mean, this will be an unhinged and unchecked Donald Trump in a second term. And I do, I mean, it's not hyperbole to say the man has announced that he will virtually end our democracy. He'll terminate portions of the Constitution. He is an aspiring dictator. You know, take him in his word. He will do these things. And then it's a question of how do you defeat a dictator? Well, unfortunately, the only way you can defeat a dictator is

with a revolution. Oh, dear. Let's switch gears to the criminal cases. The last time we spoke, I had high hopes. Glenn, I had high hopes that while the calendar was not working with us, I had hopes of it being able to move through. The Supreme Court, however, had other plans. They have decided to take up the immunity case that Jack Smith had wanted them to deal with. with months ago and brought it directly to the Supreme Court to say, just handle this once and for all so that we can move forward. And they said, nah, we'll wait for it to go up through the lower courts. Goes up through the lower courts. They issue their opinion. You are not immune. The Supreme Court then had an opportunity to say, we let the lower court's decision stand. We're not interfering.

Move forward. Now, because they are not to be trusted, and those are my words and not yours, the Supreme Court is not to be trusted, has decided now, oh, we'll take up the case. We'll take it up in April. We'll start hearing arguments. This is putting the immunity case in the center of the election without the ability of Jack Smith to be able to move forward on his timeline and the judge's timeline. Talk to me about this corrupt, bought and sold, grifting Supreme Court. Yeah, your words are the Supreme Court is not to be trusted.

my words are the Supreme Court is not to be trusted. They're not honest brokers of the law. First of all, you're absolutely right. They should not have taken this case for review. There's no federal law. There's no statute on the books that says a president is immune from prosecution for the crimes he commits against the American people while in office. There's no precedent. There is no appellate court opinion that stands for that proposition. And there's no constitutional provision that stands for that proposition. The Supreme Court should not have taken this case for review. But if they were going to, because they're the big dogs and they want to, you know, put their stamp on whatever it is that will live in the law books moving forward, they didn't want the lower appellate

court to have that, you know, honor and that privilege. They wanted to be the big dogs and announce an opinion. What they should have done was done this months ago, because they could have, and they should have in the event they knew they were going to exercise jurisdiction over this and accept it for review, but they didn't. Then when they did a few weeks ago, they could have set a two-week briefing and argument schedule, and it could be resolved like right now, but they didn't. They said, you know what, we'll put it on the calendar for the week of the 22nd of April. And just yesterday, I think they said, you know what, we don't want to rush it. We're going to put it even later in the week. We're going to hear arguments on the 25th of April right at the dead

end of this Supreme Court's term, right? So then do they decide it on the last day of the term? June 30th? Maybe. They don't have to. They could carry it over until the next term if they really wanted to screw democracy. And it appears that they're entirely willing to screw democracy. So if they do just, let's play this out. If they decide the case on the last day of the term, June 30th, let's hope that they say a president is not king. A president can't kill or order seal team six to kill his political opponent with impeachment. and immunity against prosecution. And so they say, no, no absolute immunity for Donald Trump. And they hand the case back to Judge Tanya Chutkin and direct her to put it back on the trial track. Now,

she has already pledged that she would give them 88 days, let's say three months from the time she gets the case back until the time it goes to trial because there were about three months between the time it was paused originally and the March 4 trial date. She could cut that down. That's not precedent. That's not law. It wouldn't be wrong or improper for her to cut that time frame down. But basically, as you say, he's going to be in trial, you know, for trying to criminally overturn the results of a presidential election while people are going to the polls. Yeah. Remember, that seems unwise in the extreme. We should have finished this up well in advance of the election. But I have even worse news than all of that, if you can imagine.

Please. Judge Cannon down in Florida on Donald Trump's illegally retaining classified information, obstructing justice, and violating our nation's espionage laws. She's still playing with this case and has not yet set a trial date. Here's what she's going to do. I'll bet a buck. That's my betting limit. I'm not a high roller. I'm not a gambling man.

I'll put the full buck on this. She told Jack Smith last week. July 8th, which Jack Smith was requesting as a trial date, no, that sounds unrealistic. She's going to set a trial date right around. September 1st, give or take. That's not going to be a legitimate trial date. You know what it's going to be? It's going to be a trial date blocker so that if that is on the books in Florida for September 1st, if Judge Chetkin gets her case back on June 30th, she's going to say, set a trial date now until after that trial is complete. And then September 1st is going to approach the sham Florida trial date.

Donald Trump's attorneys will waltz in and say, judge, we just got a late disclosure from the prosecutors. They'll make some excuse up. Now you have to continue the September 1st trial date until after the election, and I predict Judge Cannon will be receptive to that argument. Now we have no federal trials even starting November. That's the nightmare scenario I see on the horizon. Our only hope is Alphen Prague's criminal case in New York, in Manhattan, which is scheduled to kick off on March 25th, and it looks like a hard trial date. Judge Mershahn is not messing around when Donald Trump's lawyers literally started sounding like they were drafting a post for Donald Trump to put up in court. The lawyers are like, Judge, this should never happen in this country.

This is, judge said, uh, uh, legal argument. I will see. you on March 25th for jury selection. It looks like Judge Mershahn is going to force them to go to trial. Based on the evidence, including an audio recording of Donald Trump and Michael Cohen conspiring to commit the crimes, he's going to be convicted. And then the question will be, what does Judge Mershahn do? Does he have it in him to order him into incarceration, which is what would happen to pretty much anybody else whose name wasn't Donald Trump or not? So at this point, that seems like our best hope to get Donald Trump convicted, held accountable for some of his crimes before the November election. Absolutely obscene.

We will have to leave it there today, Glenn. But my God, I hope that when we speak again, that there is some movement towards justice because right now I am so disgusted that I pray that Donald Trump was worth maybe $600 million. and this decision by Ingoran and others bankrupts him. And maybe that will be the beginning of the end. But as always, my friend, thank you so much for your analysis and making time for the new abnormal. Appreciate you. Great talking with you, Daniel.

Have you heard of the Nexus Mountain Network? What about the Seven Mountains mandate? Well, maybe you have, but I hadn't until now when I read about them in an article published at the Daily.com. Here to explain what the hell these things are and why we should very much care is the author of that piece, Texas Observer Special Investigative Correspondent and publisher of the non-profit literary publication Protein magazine, Steve Monichelli. Steve, thanks so much for being here, Andy. I guess first we need to know what the Seven Mountains mandate is.

So, please tell us. So the Seven Mountains mandate is effectively an ideological concept. that can be drawn back to the mid-1970s when a group of evangelical pastors came up with this idea called the Seven Spheres, which effectively is a breakdown of all of the different aspects of society that matter to these particular pastors. So things like government, media, business, family, education. Each mountain, which is how they describe them in the modern context, is meant to be dominated by Christians. The term Seven Mountains mandate was first really pushed forth by this particular pastor who's based in Keller, Texas, named Lance Walnau. And he put out a book in 2013 called Invading Babylon, the Seven Mountain Mandate.

Critical scholars have described it as a program for Christian supremacy. and it has been connected and linked to a number of high-ranking officials who have espoused support for the notion. Okay, so what is then the other thing I mentioned, the Nexus Mountain Network? So the Nexus Mountain Network is a project of this 501C3 called Nexus Mountain Mission, which their tax filings remain hidden thanks to a church exemption. It is effectively based around the notion of the Seven Mountains mandate. They list the seven mountains in their mission. They specifically describe the purpose is to bring people together with the common goal of achieving God's purpose within the seven mountains of influence. So it's, you know, a social media platform for a particular subset of what I think could be fairly described as Christian nationalists, many of whom seek to either break down the separation of church and state or to, you know, rise to the top of the, you know, mountain and install policies that reflect.

their Christian values, their particular Christian values, I should have. Right. So basically, the Nexus Mountain Network combines the two worst things in the world, religious supremacy and the internet. That's one way to put it. And the consequences of this ideology are tough to exaggerate. I'm sure many of your listeners have heard about the Alabama Supreme Court decision that effectively put an end to in vitro fertilization. One of those judges who helped make that decision, Tom Parker is found to have espouse support for the Seven Mountains mandate, as has the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. This platform may be relatively small, but it represents an ideology that has reached some pretty high offices. As you note in your piece, there are a bunch of candidates running as Republicans who have recently won primaries, who are sort of under the rubric of this Nexus Mountain network.

That's correct. now, I think, 4,000-something members of this network, I found 13 of them who were either actively running or had run for office in the past. Two of those are congressional candidates in North Carolina who have won their primaries. One of them is named Pat Harrigan. He's a U.S. Army veteran in a CEO of a gun distribution company. And he's drawn some pretty big donors and an endorsement from the Koch Brothers Network. He previously run in 2022, but now has finally clinched the nomination. And And so he will be on the general ballot in November. I did get in touch with his campaign and his wife confirmed that she had created his account.

I think either she or someone on the campaign then promptly blocked me after offering an interview. So I was never able to schedule that interview with them. But she did also confirm that she's personal friends with the wife of the founder of Nexus Mountain Network, Chad Hawley. Chad Hawley has posted also on the Nexus Mountain Network and was interviewed on a religious political show called Flashpoint, which is a product of Kenneth Copeland Ministries, which is the ministry of the wealthiest pastor in America near Fort Worth, Texas. And Holly effectively said he had heard from several politicians who had gotten a comment request from me and viewed it as an attempt to create a smear campaign around the Nexus Mountain Network and what they're trying to. do. But he also acknowledged that there are many politicians who have accounts on the network and in a way have, at the very least, identified government as their primary mountain that they seek to conquer. Talk a little more about Chad Hawley. What's his background? How did he come

to be the head of this network? Chad Hawley is a former pharmaceutical industry executive, who I believe he had some health issues that he describes as a heart. of the journey that led him to receiving a message from God that he should create the Nexus Mountain Network. He is effectively a mentee of Lance Walnau, who is the main proponent of the Seven Mountains mandate or the Seven Mountains theology. They have spoken at conferences together, one in particular being the Morning Star Conference, where a lot of luminaries in this movement that has been described as the new apostolic Reformation participated in. Without going down that rabbit hole, basically, the Seven Mountains mandate came out of this network of self-appointed apostles and prophets, which make up what is called the new apostolic reformation. And the things that characterize that movement are things like the belief in the power of the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, such as healing, the Seven Mountains mandate in particular, or the necessity to conduct spiritual warfare in order to bring about Christian dominion over all aspects of society. And so as far as I understand, Mr. Hawley, who did not respond to my request for comment,

has, you know, a bit of a history in this particular sort of sect of Christian nationalism and is closely linked to some of the biggest luminaries of that movement. So talk about the influence that the Seven Mountains, which I guess is also known as Seven M. Yes. Talk about the influence that they've had on school boards and that they're seeking to have on school boards, because this seems important. So one of the elected officials that I found on the Nexus Mountain Network is a school board member in Charleston County in South Carolina. And one of the things that she's tried to push for is requiring prayer before the beginning of each board meeting.

She tried to ban a local pastor and activist from attending board meetings after they made an outspokenly critical post about Moms for Liberty, a group which organized this particular school board member. Her name's Leah Watley. And then, you know, Chad Hawley himself in an interview on his podcast with one of the political candidates for lieutenant governor in North Carolina, Rivera, do, I actually don't know how to say her last name. So I'm just not even going to try. She lost that primary. So, you know, that is not necessarily a victory for this movement. But nonetheless, during that interview, Chad Holly spoke about how members of the Nexus Mountain Network were able to mobilize at a local school board meeting in North Carolina. and basically push back against what they described as the promotion of pedophilia and rape and incest, the context being a book that they did not like that was available for students. Mr. Hawley himself was quoted in a local report using the words pedophilia and rape and incest. They were also targeting these school boards and other state-level offices, other state-level offices, where they think that they can mobilize a significant number of people

to support them. And this, you know, this dovetails their efforts on school boards basically dovetail with this larger trend that we've seen all across the country, which I've reported on in a series of investigative articles here in Texas where, you know, large funders and outside interests end up pairing up with, you know, local far-right activists to make fodder of books and other things that they don't like that they would seek to ban, all under the sort of rubric of morality or decency, regardless of whether the content is actually, as defined by many legal cases, actually pornography, or if it's just in their mind is something that they don't like. This network of people, it spans the country. There are probably many more examples on this

social media app of people who have shown up to school board meetings and made a big issue out of books that they don't like. You say it spans the country. I have absolutely no doubt that's true. But I do notice that you keep coming back to, or we keep coming back to, whether it's talking about federal offices or school boards or whatever, the Carolinas seem to be like, are they just fertile ground for this movement? Or are they ground zero? Is this something that they're doing purposely? Or is it a coincidence? So, great question. Part of it is that Chad Hawley and his family live in North Carolina. Okay. So they are based there. And that consequently is why there are so many personal connections amongst these various politicians. Several of the politicians named in the

article also were interviewed by Chad and described as friends. So that is one main reason why we're seeing so many officials in the Carolinas popping up on this network. Another one of those officials who is not a member of the network, but has been interviewed on the podcast, is the North Carolina Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, who just won the North Carolina Republican gubernatorial primary. And he has said many, many, many, colorful things, to put it politely. Yeah. Regarding his belief that we should return to a time when women couldn't vote or that he believes that this is a Judeo-Christian country and Christians must lead and be at the forefront of

leading the nation. You know, there is definitely a lot of activity in this direction in North Carolina. But there are also some examples of people in other states. There is one statehouse candidate and a current county commissioner in Lawan County, Michigan is among the politicians that I found on this website. Soon I hope to have a more comprehensive view of the distribution of these accounts across the country in terms of where the largest concentration of membership is. So, you know, I think that's why we're seeing so much in North Carolina, but I've also found people in Dallas. I've also found people in California and other

states. So exactly what the distribution of membership is is something that I hope to have more clarity on in the coming days. So I have to say, as I was reading your article, probably the least surprising thing in it was when you got to the little graph about how some of these folks were there on January 6th. And I was like, well, of course they were. How big a presence was there? Because I know, I think you linked to a piece that basically said this new apostolic reformation drove the January 6th riots. Right. So there are several scholars and journalists who have made, I think, relatively convincing cases that the new apostolic reformation and things like the Seven Mountains mandate were one of the animating forces behind January 6th. And then if you look closely at photos

and at videos, you begin to see iconography that is associated with this movement, such as the flag that the Speaker of the House Mike Johnson hung outside of his office, the appeal to heaven flag. That was something that was clearly visible during the January 6th riots. The day before, during the Freedom Plaza rally, there were speeches from luminaries in this movement, such as Cheon. There were people who were arrested who had specifically posted about the Seven Mountains mandate. And so while I don't think we could convincingly argue that the new apostolic Reformation or the Seven Mountains mandate was the thing that caused January 6th, I would say that it was one of the factors that mobilized people and animated the motivations for people to show up in the

first place, given that so many of the leaders in that movement have aligned themselves behind Donald Trump. Yeah, exactly. And that's like I said, that's why when I got to it, I was like, oh, of course they were. That's right. No surprise. there. It would have been a surprise to me if there hadn't been. Exactly. So I kind of got, because of your article, I got sucked into the Nexus Mountain Network website. And it's just got some stuff on there. That's just, they have this whole section on, it's a seven mountains overview. And so they break down these seven mountains, religion, business, arts and entertainment, family, government, education, media. They explain what it means to have conquered this, you know, each particular mountain. And then they

list examples of people who have done so, and they give biblical examples and modern day examples. Some of these were unreal. Like under government, they have Harriet Tubman, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Ronald Reagan, we all know who Harriet Tubman was. We all know who Ronald Reagan was. Bonhofer was executed by the Nazis because he had a plot to, he was part of a plot to take down Hitler. I'm looking at this. I'm going, do you really think these people? Yes, if you're going to say, they conquered the mountain of government. But to list these people as if they would have approved of what you're doing is just, it's so insane.

But again, it's like, it's not surprising at this point. That's what these groups do. Right. I don't think it is the first time we've seen sort of this retroactive claiming particular people. I mean, there's the whole practice in certain religious sects of retroactive baptism, where you basically are baptizing dead people against their will because they can't consent. because they're dead. So, yeah, I saw that and I found it to be truly wild for them to make those claims. But then on the other hand, they would cite people like Candace Owens. And while she does not have an account on the platform, she's listed as one of their influencers.

So it appears she does have some sort of connection to this program, this platform. Yeah, the media section for that mountain was also like, I want to read what it says. It says the media mountain Christian prioritizes information integrity. They value persuasion, communication, presentation, influence truth, mass distribution, and journalism. And then it lists as modern day examples of this, Paul Revere, Rush Limbaugh, Kaylee McAnney, and Candice Owens. Now, three of those people are or were inveterate liars. And then there was Paul Revere. It's my understanding that being an inveterate liar usually doesn't fit well with quote unquote information integrity or valuing truth. That does not seem to make sense to me either.

But the consistency of this stuff, I don't think we should really expect much. I mean, this is clearly a highly ideological platform that aims to push a specific agenda. And so consequently, you know, we're seeing ridiculous things. Like the attempt to pre-but the story was really interesting to me. We saw Chad Hawley make a post about it. He was interviewed on Flashpoint. And then Lance Walnau himself posted a video. It was so fascinating to see Walnau recast the Seven Mountains into what he now says is like a description of how the left has taken over the country.

Right. So it went from, you know, being a book that he published in 2013 targeting Christians to motivate them to, you know, take over their mountain of influence to now it's somehow a blueprint for how the left did. that. It's this really interesting rhetorical jiu-jitsu where they turn themselves into the victim as a way to sort of rally the troops around them. I don't expect a lot of consistency when we see stuff like that. No, not at all. But it's still just wild to me, like under the education mountain as people who have conquered the mountains, they list Betsy DeVos and Booker T. Washington, two people I always think of in the same breath. And to be clear, like if you go onto the actual platform and you

you click their influencers section, they list Candice Owens. They have a whole little thing for her where they link to all of her other social media, but they don't link to her account on the platform because she doesn't even have one. So they can't even get their own influencers to get on board and be consistent. Unreal. Well, Steve, I want to thank you for giving me yet another group that should just be a little fringe thing that we don't really have to worry about. But thank you for identifying them as yet another one of these that we actually do have to worry about. because they're gaining influence in politics. The piece is great.

It's over at deli.com for people who want to read the whole thing. Steve Monicelli, thank you so much for being here. Always a pleasure, Andy. Danielle Moody. Andy Levy. Danielle, who you're closing out the week with for your fuck that guy? Well, let me tell you something. If you've been following me on social this week,

it should be very clear who my fuck that guy is. So New York City has decided to roll out something new. Thanks to Governor Hockel and Mayor Eric Adams, our subway systems are now flooded with National Guardsmen and cops with AR-15s, a nice folding table set up to harass the people of New York City at various subway stations for apparently our safety. So Governor Hockel and Mayor Adams, their response to what they are seeing. as growing violence and crime isn't about, you know, doing what every single fucking report or every single type of advocacy group says, which is invest in social services, invest in education, no. They decide instead to balloon police budgets and to invest into the militarization of New York City. And I have to tell you that I am fucking outraged. I have said it on social

a million times that I want the ACLU and other legal groups to be looking into this, because if I recall, stop and frisk was deemed unconstitutional. And I'm just curious as to who, whose bags are going to, quote unquote, be randomly checked. How many black and brown and Muslim appearing people are going to be subjected to harassment on a regular basis by the, by a pumped up fucking and militarized police department. Mayor Adams went ahead and cut what? I think the budget of the New York City public education by tens of millions of dollars, gave additional tens of millions of dollars that he cut from education,

from social services, from parks, from the libraries to wear his buddies at the NYPD. And now has to justify what that looks like to give them what, busy work to throw people up against the wall? I'm just so fucking sick. So my fuck that guy, because I will keep going, is a double header of Kathy Hogle, the governor, and Mayor Adams, who are going to do their best to turn New York City into the fucking militarized zone that the far right has wanted to do for quite some time. But these two pseudo-democrats are doing the job of the right for them.

Bravo. Bravo. So for that reason, fuck those guys. This is not good. There's so many things wrong with this. Look, I've seen speculation, because I don't think we know this for a fact, that what Hockel's doing is a response to the transit workers union and the MTA, the Metropolitan Transit Authority. An MTA worker was recently hurt, I think stabbed, which is horrible, obviously. And basically, this is sort of throwing a bone to the unions, there's so many problems here. First of all, I guess there's some way this doesn't violate the Fourth Amendment and the right to be free of unreasonable search and

seizure. I'm not sure what that is. I don't understand the rule here, but I ain't a lawyer, so maybe I don't know what's going on. The bag searching, I mean, this is political theater. Like, this is even bigger political theater than a lot of what the TSA does at airports. When there's Crime on the subway, and by the way, crime is down in New York City. We have to keep saying that because our politicians and our elected officials won't say that, except for the tiny, every once in a while it benefits them to say that and then they say it, but then they spend the rest of the time running on how bad crime is and how they're going to solve it by throwing more money at the police, etc. But if you're on the subway in New York, you're not worried about what someone has in a bag.

historically, it's not like people are carrying a bunch of weapons in a bag onto the subway and then using them. When violence happens on the subway, it's usually like someone gets in a fight or they've got a knife on them, whatever. And again, this stuff is fairly rare. I don't want to even oversell that. My only point is they're doing these bag searches. And again, it is nothing but theater. And the idea that you're asking people to give up their constitutional rights for theater. I know this is the city of Broadway, but it's not the same thing.

And that just really, really rankles that they do these things and they know it won't have any effect on what they're even claiming it's supposed to have an effect on. So it just, I hate, I hate this shit so much because it's just all, again, it's just, it's just performative and it and it sucks. So yeah, fuck that guy. So, Andy, how are you closing out this week? Well, on the last episode, Danielle, you talked about. I'm now blanking on what state it was. Is it Kansas? Mm-hmm.

And a whole bunch of legislation there and things aimed at basically rolling back worker protections. Oh, in this case, and in your case, it was basically saying businesses don't have to provide a lunch break. So I'm going to take us down to Florida, because Florida, I think Florida's attitude is basically they are never going to be outdone. And, you know, Texas wants to do something really stupid or Kansas. Kansas or Missouri or Nebraska. And Florida is like, hang on, hang on. We need to get our names back on the list at the top. Earlier this week, the Florida State Senate approved a bill that would ban cities and counties in the state from having requirements for mandatory water breaks and other workplace protections against extreme heat. This is as reported by NBC News. The Senate voted 2811,

basically local governments in Florida can now not determine workplace heat standards that might go beyond those required by federal law. And as Denise Chow reports at NBCNews.com, in effect, the bill would strip cities and counties of the ability to require water breaks for workers and time to rest in the shade throughout the day. Can they tell you any more clearly that they don't care if you die? Tell me you love slavery without telling me you love slavery. I mean, we joke a lot, particularly in New York, about, you know, people, old people going to Florida to die. And this is Florida basically saying, oh, it's not just old people, you know, send us your young people too. We'll kill them. It's just unreal to me. And again, Texas passed similar legislation. I think we talked about it

on this show back in 2023. And again, this is just Florida saying, you can't beat us. We will always be the home of Florida man. And we will always be the state that takes it one level higher or lower, I guess, depending on how you're looking at it. You think about all workers in Florida in a super hot state that, by the way, not for nothing, just had its hottest year and recorded history in 2023, along with the rest of the planet, by the way. And the Florida legislature's response to this is, oh, we got to take away some water from workers. Fuck these guys. I mean, they're just, again, everything, like we need to stop looking at these policies that are being put out in silos. Like, we see them and we're just like, okay, well, oh, look what Florida did here.

Look what Kansas is doing here. Look at what Alabama is doing. They are eroding worker protections. They are pushing forward with rolling back child labor laws. they are creating a climate that is ripe for authoritarianism that is ripe for oppression with people having no way to fight back. And they are doing it in these states as testers for what they want to nationalize if Donald Trump were to become president again.

This is the thing that I want people to like wake the fuck up to. That you can't say to yourself like, oh, well, at least I'm not in Kansas or, oh, I would never live in Florida because if Donald Trump becomes president again or any Republican becomes president again, the shit that they are doing state by state taking over the South and bringing back Jim Crow 2.0 will be nationalized. Fuck those guys. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder.

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