The Daily Beast Podcast - Trump Terrified of Impeachment

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

David Rothkopf joins Joanna Coles for a blistering tour through Trump’s increasingly chaotic presidency, from the icy public display between Donald and Melania Trump to the White House’s seemingly endless staff exodus and the growing sense that the president’s power is slipping away. They cover Trump’s disastrous Iran war, the shifting alliances reshaping the Middle East, and Mark Carney’s emergence as a formidable counterweight to Trump after Canada refuses to bend to his demands. Rothkopf also reveals why Jared Kushner’s secret meetings with Democrats could signal panic inside Trumpworld, what Pete Hegseth’s trip to Iowa says about his presidential ambitions, and why Trump’s cabinet may be the most disastrous collection of officials in American history. As more countries, businesses and political opponents begin standing up to Trump, Rothkopf argues that the president’s bullying tactics are finally backfiring—and that his transformation into a lame duck may already be underway. #ad Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://hims.com/beast to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. #ad NOBL gives you real travel peace of mind — security, design, and convenience all in one. Head to https://NOBLTravel.com for 46% off your entire order! #NOBL #ad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the part of Kushner, of course, reaching out to Jeffries, the message was, we think you're going to be in charge. The Democrats are going to win. Let's establish a back channel. And Kushner is the master. He's kind of the secretary of back channels. Trump, he has been going around saying, if the Democrats get elected, they will impeach me. He really doesn't want to be impeached again. He knows how devastating that would be to his administration, to his reputation.

There's no assurances that the next impeachment turns out the way the law. last did where the Senate defends him. Because everybody in the Senate saw what happened then. And I think Trump's terrified, you know, just as he sends Jared to deal with the Iranians and Jared to deal with the Russians, when he's got some big issue, he sends Jared. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast and so much to get to. What were Melania and Donald Trump talking about the indie race? Of course, we couldn't hear because of the noise of the cars, but we could read the body language and David Rothcott will be doing precisely that. We saw Natalie Harp in a lovely leather sort of jerkin pleplum item, chattering away to the Secret Service and to Eric Trump. Then, of course,

there's Mark Carney who looks like he should be the American president, but instead he's the Canadian president confusing and what was said in the secret meeting between Jared Kushner and Hakeem Jeffries leading the Democrats. Who knows? But Mike Johnson didn't like it and said to the first son-in-law, don't bet against the Republicans. What's going on out there? Before we get to Mr. Rothpops' view on what's going on out there, a quick call to action. Press your subscription button for the Daily Beast podcast if you haven't done already. Wherever you get your podcast, you can find one. If you press the bell, that will notify you. when we have a new episode dropping, which is every day right now, every day.

And we're now on Substack, the Daily Beast.substack.com and sign up for our brilliant morning newsletter. It's normally written by Hugh Docherty, who's actually out on vacation this week, but it is an excellent way to start your day. Okay, enough housekeeping. Let's get into it with David Rothkopf. David Rothkopf. Joanna Coles, good morning. Well, good morning, but you're going to confuse people because you've stolen my wardrobe. Look, I want to be like you in every way.

I wake up in the morning, I think, how can I be more like Joanna? And I thought, today, how about a colorful t-shirt? This is a Cape Verde soccer jersey, which I ordered during the World Cup because I wanted to support the underdog. and it arrived yesterday. So I thought, well, why not where that? It will liven things up. It will liven things up. I'm feeling single white female, David.

That's all I can say. You've literally stolen my closet. But weirdly... Wait, are you hear my Melania impression. Oh, I can't wait. Go on. I'm very pleased. So it turns out that there is no better place to have a row with your spouse

than the indie car race, because nobody you can hear what you're saying, despite everybody leaning in and trying as hard as they could to find out what the first couple were arguing about. We will come to that. We will come to Natalie Hart. We will come to Mark Carney versus Donald Trump. We will come to Hakeem Jeffries whispering in meetings with Jared Kushner. Well, we don't know if they were whispering in meetings, but these were private meetings that have come to the fore. And Mike Johnson, the Republican Speaker of the House has said to Jared, don't count the Republicans out. So that's an interesting story. We're also, of course, going to talk about the war in Iran, the forever war. It was going to take

between four and five weeks and here we are into its six months. Why are all the people leaving the White House? David Rothcopf is going to tell us why. He's also going to tell us about Pete Exa in his personal capacity going to Iowa. What an earth. Do we think anybody is doing going to Iowa unless they are thinking of running for president? It's possible he went to the Iowa State Fair where they have so many things on a stick, right? So many things on a stick. And also butter sculptures. They're very big.

Oh, are they? They have like a whole, yeah, they have like whole cows, sculpted out of butter, kept in refrigerated rooms. Very, very big in that kind of thing. I once went to Iowa. Well, I've been to Iowa a few times actually when I left the first. time, the company I was working with said, we have a gift for you. They didn't really speak like that, but I'm just, I'm just, you know, separating our voices. And it was, David, it was a shrink wrapped cheese in the shape of Iowa. It was just, I mean, I can't even, I'm sure you

still have that, too. And the shape of Iowa is kind of. Well, particularly since Iowa is not really known for cheese. Wisconsin is known for cheese. I could see that. I was known for hogs. You know, what you would get out of Iowa's hogs or corn. Well, I didn't want a shrink-wrapped hog. Anyway, I got a shrink-wrapped cheese in the shape of Iowa, which, as I mentioned, is an amorphous shape. So it looked like a kind of weird block of cheese that had fallen off the end of other blocks of cheese. But it was delicious. And I do understand Pete Hexsath going to the Iowa State Fair. I would like to go to that too. And I'm sure more people attended it than attended the American Great State Fair in D.C. as we know, our correspondent Farah Thomas in took pictures of nobody there,

nobody there. Anyway, David, you were in D.C. Could you hear the indie car race from your house? No, not for my house. Thank God. That's why we located sufficiently far from downtown. But we were in Virginia at the same time as the race, and you actually could hear it. And, you know, you could hear a lot because there were seven military flyovers. Seven military flyovers? Imagine the cost of these military flyers. They shut down National Airport for three or four hours. They shut down D.C. This is going to cost millions and millions of dollars and make them mistake. What was it? If you watched Fox, like I did actually during part of this, for its race coverage, it was a campaign ad for Trump. It was, here's Trump, here's Trump saying hi to people.

Oh, here's this Melania Foster Children Initiative thing. And, oh, by the way, Fox is giving money to that. And all the people who are on camera were like, oh, Trump is just making America a great place. And he's a great sportsman. And if he hadn't been president, he could have been a sportsman. And it was nauseating. Was it, however, on the plus or minus side for Trump? Honestly, I think I would rate it a zero.

You know, I mean, you know, people who like car racing probably liked it. People who like Fox probably liked it. There were actually people at this thing as opposed to the state fair. D.C. residents hated it, but he doesn't care about them. People who don't like the federal government to spend all of its money on the vanity projects of the president probably hated it. And in the long run, it's, you know, it's over. You know, it was just a little thing. It was a little frou-for-a that, you know, Trump did over one weekend because this is how he celebrates the 250th anniversary of the United States being established.

It was, you know, it wasn't a big deal one way or another, except it did give us a little bit of a chance to look into the interpersonal dynamics of Trump, the staff that's leaving him rapidly, the staff that loves him and sends him love letters, the wife that's never around. Because we got to see all that. I don't know what your reaction was. I know you're a big fan of Melania. I am a big fan of Melania. My interpretation of the $2 million sponsorship by IndyCar and Fox News for Be Best,

her grammatically incorrect initiative and fostering the future. I think she's fostering a future far away from Donald Trump. I think she's fostering her own future. If weight loss has felt like a losing battle, this summer can be different. Skip the guesswork and try weight loss by hymns. Hymns now offers access to an affordable range. of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the Wagovi pill and Wagovi Pen. With Wagovi at Hymns, you can lose up to 20% of your body weight when combined with diet and

exercise. It helps regulate your appetite, eat less and keep weight off. And Wagovi is the first ever GLP1 pill for weight loss. So there's no needles needed. Everything happens online from connecting with a licensed provider to getting your medication delivered right to your door if prescribed, and you can get 24-7 messaging with your care team, plus lifestyle and nutrition support in the app. Ready to reach your goals? Visit hymns.com slash beast to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. That's himms.com slash beast. HIMS.com slash beast. Weight loss by Hymns is not available in all 50 states. Wagovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk-A-esque. To get started and learn more, including important safety information,

Wagovi Clinical Study Information Restrictions, visit hymns.com. I wondered if the deal was that she would turn up, if she could get sponsors for her initiatives, otherwise she wouldn't come. I wonder if we can show the footage, for those who haven't seen it, of the, I keep on it to say the royal couple, the first couple, First of all, there's a gesture where he puts his hands on her thighs, clearly to thaw her affections towards him, which doesn't work at all. And it's worth watching the body language. And then they very clearly appear to have an argument. And at one point, she flicks her hand up as if to move him and just hides back in her hair and he looks away.

So what I love is the way he is clearly trying to reach out to her. He puts both hands on her thighs. She's got her hands flat and she doesn't remotely respond. You know, there is no attempt from her to hold his hand, which is the gesture we know that he really likes. She is Malania bought in this. She is not paying any attention to him. His touch is clearly not something that's sending tingles up her spine.

Well, I think it's repellent to her, right? It is. And I think your expression earlier that she hides in her hair. That's what she does. She has her hair. Sometimes she has a hat. She's like not present. She's trying so hard not to be present around this guy.

And it's like she's just looking at her watch. Like how much longer do I have to do this? Well, and she's probably thinking about fostering the future. And the future's getting closer. The future's getting closer for all of us, Maloney. Do you think she's really thinking about the thought? I saw that thing. And, you know, they had a thing.

in the White House South Lawn an event for fostering the future, where they took an indie car, painted fostering the future on the side of the indie car, and that had her pose on it. And it was the only time that she's looked comfortable in the past two years, because she just flashed back to being a marginal model posing on automobiles. And she was just like, it's true. And she was just like, okay, here I. You want to see my hood ornament pose? You want to see my fast Italian sports car pose?

And she just sort of went through her poses, and then she read some remarks totally without any kind of emotional inflection. And all you got was, I don't care about all this really do you, vibes. Because she doesn't care about this. I thought her father looked anxious about both her and the president when he was sitting next to them at the race, he kept sort of leaning in to try and say something, which I think a father might do in that circumstance, knowing that your son-in-law, Donald Trump, the president, how weird, has been, you know, called out by the Georgia senator for clearly wanting

to spend all his time traveling with Natalie and the brouhaha that's been the fallout since then. Can we then show what looks like the president and the first lady having an argument? There were lots of guesses about what they were arguing about. She looks furious. And then at one point, she's very conscious. I think that people might be trying to lip read or whatever. She lifts her hand and she leans right in so that you can't tell what she's saying. She looks absolutely fed up.

It might be that she's just had to watch cars driving for 250 miles round. The thing, it's hot, it's noisy. And if you're a real fan of Formula One, it's also confusing because you might think you were at a Formula One. Can we just show the ads for Formula One and then for the 250 America Indy race? You could be forgiven for being very confused about where you were. So, David, do you think that Melania was saying to Donald Trump, You told me I was coming to Formula One, this is Indy to 50? Or do you think she's talking about something else?

It's probably something else, although I think she's got a little bit more of that sort of Euro-trashy Formula One vibes that Formula One gives. Formula One is a cut above indie, as everybody knows. And, you know, they try to, you know, it's a big giant, hugely corrupt business of the kind Trump is usually drawn to. Indy cars, indie car is a little more blue collar. I don't think she was comfortable there at all. I just think her contract says she's going to show up at a certain number of events. And she has said to apparently, you know, that, you know, she likes events that are sort of entertainment oriented, you know, so she goes to, you know, shows and sporting events and so forth.

Well, I think she probably likes events where there are lots of other people, so she doesn't have to do anything with him on her own, right? Yeah, I think that's right. You know, clearly their relationship is ice cold. and that's what these clips show is that it is ice cold. And when he reaches out to her, she pulls back. And when she tries to say something to him, he turns away and he winses. And, you know, they're just getting through to the end, you know.

And then she'll go back to whatever her life is, and he'll go back to whatever is distracting him in this life. You know, off in the distance was Natalie Harp, looked like there was a Secret Service agent near her, assigned to keep her away from the president. Eric Trump was near her. It seemed like he was assigned to distract her. Well, they seem to be chatting away.

Well, and Eric Trump has defended her and said she's a wonderful girl. So, you know, who knows? Who knows? But it's not that she was out of the picture. And then, you know, what happened later that night? Well, Trump at one in the morning, started sending out, you know, social media. And we know that he doesn't do that alone. So, you know, maybe we need to look at his late night social media posting as evidence of

more collaboration with his social media teeth. Do you think she sends those post outs to, because she's silently screaming, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here behind the screen, behind the screen. You're going to do a Natalie Harper pressure pretty soon. I think she's, you know, I think what she does is all day long. She scrolls through the media looking for little gifts she can give her, you know, her beloved, right? And so, you know, oh, here he is without a shirt looking very ripped or here he is with

George Washington looking like a leader or here he is, you know, on Mount Rushmore. And then she could go to him and say, boss, look at this. and he, you know, he probably heats up, warns up, heats up, whatever. You know, and, and, you know, I think her job is to distract him with the AI slop version of himself. But it's a sort of telenovela at this point, isn't it? I mean, the beast draws up, out gets Melania, looking elegant as always, and her hair has managed to get both darker and blonder at the same time. She's got very, very dark roots, and then she's blonded up the side.

I think the term is balliage. And then in the background, you have Natalie Hart talking to the sun in a very nice leather top. I like that top, Natalie, if you happen to be listening. I thought she looked very good. And Trump somehow bewildered in between the two of them. I mean, imagine being Secret Service. I wonder if they thought that Natalie Harp was going to lunge for Melania. Well, I don't know.

They kept them at a pretty good distance. Maybe Melania would have lunged at Natalie Harp. On the other hand, you know, maybe Malani would go up to her and say, good luck, honey. Well, she may have gone and said, thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, right. Thank you for taking them off my hands. Yeah.

Well, exactly. And so, you know, I don't know. It was interesting that both were present. And frankly, most of the reporters that I spoke to were more interested in the distance between Melania Trump and Natalie Harp than they were in the distance between the cars on the racetrack. Well, congrats to Kyle Kirkwood, the American who won. I actually found it quite exciting. I watched a little bit of it.

I went to my first Formula One last year, and I love it. it. Formula one is pretty cool. This was not. And Kyle Kirkwood was in the lead for the whole race. What was excited? Was he in the lead for the whole race? In which case I was watching the wrong car. He was sort of five cars behind for the bit of the race that I was watching. And then miraculously, he managed to come through on a turn. Well, he was in the lead for much of the race that I saw. So it may have been that he had a pit stop or something like that. Well, just know that I was concerned about your swimming pool. I was worried that if David's plowing up and down his swimming pool,

he might get waves from the vibrations of all these cars roaring at 200 miles now through Washington, D.C. Well, thank you for thinking of me. And I know that those thoughts were supportive thoughts. And, you know, this is the only time they're going to do this. And so maybe next year they'll do the Hamptons Grand Prix. And it'll be a little closer to you and your swimming. Oh, I'm saying IndyCar, 2028. David. I think they'll do it again in 2020. I think he's going to put it in as an annual thing.

What I did think was interesting was where he was being interviewed and he said that Roger Penske, the owner of IndyCar, been trying to do this in D.C. for 20 years. A little bit like the war in Iran with BP Netanyahu. Penske is the Netanyahu of IndyCar racing. And Trump had said yes in 15 minutes. Very much like he obviously said yes to Netanyahu. in 15 minutes to go into Iran where we still are six months on. What is the latest, David? Wow. Talk about a segue.

The latest is, you know, status quo. Except, you know, as it goes on and as Iran remains at odds with the U.S. and firing out diplomatic statements and firing out Lego videos. They made a very funny Natalie Harp Lego video. They made an IndyCar video. As they are doing this kind of stuff, they also are menacing the region. We have to remember that, you know, they're kind of the bad guys in the region. And the, you know, the tensions are growing.

I've seen a number of the countries in the Middle East that were kind of on board with Trump policies now sort of standing up and saying, We're not happy with what's going on in Israel and the West Bank and Gaza and sort of distancing themselves a little bit. Israel and Turkey are at a sort of high level of tension over who's going to have more influence in Syria. All of this is to say nothing looks like there is going to be any kind of short-term solution, peace, more stability in this part of the world. It looks like the Iranians have decided we're riding this thing out through the election. It's looked like Trump has realized he can't launch a big military offensive. So he's going to have to ride this

thing out until the election because, you know, he's used up the weapons. People are now aware of the cost, the prior tax didn't work. He's had these carrier battle groups out there for too long, and that's causing a scandal for him. So Trump's hands are tied, and that suits the Iranians just fine because it leads to this festering throughout the region, which is in their interest. You know what I realized about my luggage? I'm constantly leaving it somewhere. I can't see at the airport with hotel staff, even just sitting in the overhead bin. And apparently, most suitcase zippers can be pierced with a bullpoint pen and re-zipped like nothing happened.

That's a pretty terrifying thought when your passport, your laptop and everything else you packed is in there. That's why I'm impressed with Noble. It's a zippoorless latch lock suitcase that closes like a safe. And it has everything you actually want, a built-in-charger, a... front laptop pocket, 360-degree wheels, and a genius flip-out cup holder. It genuinely made travelling so much easier and you don't have to stress nearly as much when your bag is out of sight. Noble gives you real travel peace of mind, security, design and convenience all in one. Head to

NobleTravel.com for up to 46% off your entire order. That's N-O-B-L-Travel.com for up to 46% of And when they ask you where you heard about them, please tell them our show sent you. So, David, you talk to people, you know, in the region, you talk to the diplomatic course such as it is, you talk to the intelligence services, you talk to reporters covering it. How anxious are people that this really does become a forever war and that there are all sorts of new alliances is being formed, like we know there's now one with Saudi, Turkey, and Pakistan, that this is the changing global order that Mark Carney, who we're going to talk about in a minute, was talking about

at Davos, and that the world really is much less stable. Well, I think the region is much less stable. As you said, there are new alliances. There's also divisions. You know, I think the way the war unfolded revealed big divisions among the Gulf countries, the GCC, the Gulf Cooperation Council is really a non-starter at this point. They're all in it on their own. They all have their own strategies. And, you know, it's not a forever war in the sense that, you know, we had troops on the ground in Afghanistan for 20 years. You know, we have troops on the ground.

We still have troops on the ground in Iraq. And, you know, because of that, there's the potential casualties, there's ongoing costs and so forth. I think this one is going to be somewhat different and that they've sort of kicked the Hornets Nest. The region is much less stable. But now you have stories in just the past few days of the U.S. military saying we are going to reduce our presence in the region. And I think essentially Trump is realizing he'll never admit. minute, but that he fell for the thing that he always condemned in other presidents. He got involved where he shouldn't know. He did it worse than they did because he didn't listen to the advice he was

getting. And now he realizes the choices between winding it down or forevermore. And I think, you know, it's kind of like, I don't know, like a scene in some movie where the person who did the wrong thing sort of backs quietly towards the door to try to make their escape. I think that's what Trump is doing. He's trying to back quietly towards the exit and see if he can get out from under this thing, which is right now one of the real black marks on his legacy. That's saying something since his legacy is all black marks. Right.

So you said earlier this year in one of your columns for us that Mark Carney was emerging as the new leader of the free world, which now suddenly seems to have become law. Obviously, the Canadian and American talks over tariffs that was supposed to be concluded last Friday broke off with the Canadian group walking away and just saying he's not, the Americans aren't negotiating in good faith. This looks catastrophic, frankly, for both sides. Do you, are you, are you, Are you optimistic they can reach a compromise, or do you think that this is Mark Carney now realizing that he's going to be making, you know, trade negotiations with everybody else but America?

Look, I think there's a bigger phenomenon happening here. Trump came out of the block in the second term, and he was feeling his outs, and he was flexing his muscles, and he was threatening the world, he was threatening them with war, he was threatening them with trade war. He was threatening universities. He was threatening businesses. He was threatening his opponents. He was threatening everybody saying, I'm the most powerful man in the world. And if you don't do things my way, I'm going to come and get you. And, you know, at first, there were a bunch of countries and people that got all kind of weak need. It was like, oh, my God, we've got to cut a deal on trade or he's going to do this

bad thing. Or we're Paul Weiss Rifkin, the law firm, and we've got to go and cut a deal with him because otherwise he's going to, you know, make it hard for us to do business with the U.S. government or we're Yale or Harvard or whatever university, we've got to cut a deal, or we're CBS or ABC, we've got to settle with him to placate him. And what they realized over the course of the past 18 months is that every time you settle with him, he then forgets it rapidly and he sees it as a sign of weakness and he goes in for more. And at the same time during those 18 months, what we've seen is that when people stand up to him, he holds because he is Taco Trump. He is a chicken.

He does not have a lot of strength. And he is fading as a president. And so, you know, he goes after Iran. This is his big bet. And the Iranians say, hit us with your best shot, baby. We're going to be here. You're not. And so all of a sudden, the middle power.

flexes its muscles in a way that makes the so-called superpower look weaker, looks like the middle power is winning. Well, Mark Carney went out and gave a speech about the rise of middle powers and how important it was for them to sort of guide their own way and not be dependent with superpowers. And he has emerged as this voice of a new world order in which the superpowers are dysfunctional. The U.S. is dysfunctional. China's got its problems. The ex-superpower Russia has its problems. And it's the next tier of powers, if they cooperate, that are going to show strength. And, you know, he has stood up. And honestly, no American could possibly have watched Mark Carney's performance this weekend, where he masterfully

walked through all the details of the trade negotiation, as you would expect from a guy who is as as brilliant as he is, who was both the head of Bank of England and the Canadian Central Bank. This is a brilliant man, and he just sort of walked through it, and he said, look, we're not going to be bullied. And apparently at the very end, the U.S. team came out, and they had a bunch of provisions like, don't use the French language here and give us guarantees for the long term with regard to car prices or raw material prices and so forth. and he said, we're not going to be bully.

Well, didn't they also say, and you're not allowed to have trade agreements with anybody else? Right, which is just ridiculous. And it infringes on Canadian sovereignty. But Carney is the living incarnation, if you will, of this lesson of Trump 2.0, which is the people who stand up, the companies that stand up, the countries that stand up, do better and are happier about it. And the ones that bend the knee do worse. Paul Weiss, the other law firms that bent the knee, not so good.

Harvard, that is taking a different path from, say, Columbia, which bent the knee, is seen as defending their turf and gaining in respect in this. Media organizations, I mean, even ABC, which at first bent the knee and did this ridiculous settlement around the George Stephanopoulos case, early in the term, has now come back because they've learned the lesson. And they've said, no, you're not going to tell us what our programming should be. You're not going to tell us whether we should air the view or not. Well, and they did a brief suspending of Jimmy Kimmel and then put him back. That's right. And so the lesson of Trump is he's weaker than he's looks. He's all

bluster. He's a coward. He's old. He's going to fold. And if you have, stand up to him, you will benefit in one way or another. And now you see it. It's not just, you know, it's Iran, it's Canada. It's Denmark. You know, Trump tried to do this backdoor thing into Greenland where he's going to go and have a mining company go in and do some mining. And, you know, maybe then they would sort of expand the influence of the earth. And the, the Dane said, but hell you will, nothing without our approval and shut it down. And I think this is a turning point for Trump. I think it's a turning point. All of his crazy tactics of bullying are blowing up in his face. And people are realizing he's a paper tiger. And I think you'll see more pushback on trade,

like you've seen from the Canadians, more pushback on security issues, more pushback on economic issues. And this is all going to be part of Donald Trump's slow decline and, you know, his complete transformation into the lamest of lame ducks. Lameducts. And of course, Vladimir Zelensky is another leader who stood up against him. I think the interesting thing about Mark Carney is it's very clear to people that he's a serious leader versus Trump who is essentially unserious and that he's worked through crises at the Bank of Canada.

We had the world economic crisis when he was at the Bank of England. he had to negotiate or deal with the fallout from Brexit. So he's someone that's used to managing his way through crises. And this is potentially a crisis for the Canadian economy. And yet, you know, if anybody can deal with it, one feels he probably can. He's also a proper businessman as opposed to Trump, who's a fake business. Yeah. And he's thought, you know, I mean, he played hockey in school and he's incredibly well-educated.

And he's very smart. Doesn't everybody play hockey in Canada? I think they do in Canada, actually. Everyone in Canada, they may. But I think he played it when he was in college as well. But my point is, you know, you watched him this weekend, and you definitely had leader envy. Because here was this guy, articulate, strong, would stand up.

You know, he very deftly stuck the knife into Commerce Secretary Lutnik, who he felt. was a real, unconstructive participant in the negotiations. Right. And also he suggested, so he was asked about Howard Lutnik coming into the negotiations. He also implied that Howard Lutnik and the president weren't on the same page. Right. And how did he do it? He said, because we are on the same page here in Canada. We are talking to each other. Our team makes decisions collectively. And of course, they go to me and I am responsible, but we are on the same, and we saw that the U.S. doesn't seem to know where it wants

to go on some of these things. And I think what he was doing there, again, deftly as a negotiator, was sending a message to Trump, which is your team doesn't have its act together. And you need to get a hold of this kind of thing because it's ending up on you. And of course, you know, there are ironies in all of this juxtaposition. You know, here was Trump going to Roger Penske, a titan of the auto industry at an event that celebrated Ford and General Motors and saying, yes, look at what a friend of the auto industry I am. As he entered a trade war with Canada, which is going to cause the price of steel to go up, is going to cause the price of aluminum to go up, is going to cause the price of electricity,

which we import from Canada and other energy that we import from Canada to go up, which is going to make cars much more expensive, because the way cars are built is, half on this side of the border, half on that side of the border. And every time they cross the border, there are increasing tariff costs associated with this kind of thing. So, you know, he's like putting his arm around the auto industry and smiling for a photo. Meanwhile, he's, you know, kicking him in the nuts. It's not, you know, it's not a great message. And people get that and jobs will be lost. And that's why I think there's going to be a desperate effort and there's a Canadian team coming down to help with this, to try to, you know, paper this over and find

a settlement. But there's this other thing, which I just find amazing. And that is, as an American sitting there watching this debate and seeing that the United States is the not trusted one that has no leadership and looks weak. And Canada is strong, looks like the leader of the free world, has a guy who looks like he could be president, like he should be president. who's a master who seems in charge of everything. And then you think about the North America

and where we've been in the past. That, you know, Claudia Shanebaum in Mexico is who's the president there, their first woman president, all of a sudden everybody has health care there. All of a sudden, their infrastructure problems being solved. All of it, she is doing a great job. Donald Trump, among the three leaders of the North America,

is a distant third. There are two super competent leaders, and none of them, neither of them, is the American leader. So his son-in-law seems to have some doubts in his leadership, too, because he was reported to have had a private meeting with Hakeem Jeffery, leader of the Democrats in the House. What did you make of that?

I think it was a bad look on both sides because, you know, on the part of Kushner, of course, reaching out to Jeffries, the message was, we think you're going to be in charge. The Democrats are going to win. Let's establish a back channel. And Kushner is the master. He's kind of the secretary of back channels in this and in the prior administration. And he's like, let's establish a back channel.

And this made Mike Johnson, the current speaker of the House pissed off. So it was a bad look in that regard. And it was a bad look for Jeffries. Because Jeffries has this rap that he is trying to, you know, he's one of those establishment Democrats that's always looking to compromise. And, you know, he's sitting there, you know, negotiating, talking to Jared Kushner as if this were just some other Republican administration and not a bunch of fascist, white supremacist extremists who are trying to destroy the United States of America. And what's more, it looks worse for Jeffries than the Senate.

that when he was called upon to reach out to and support progressives in his own party, whether it was Mamdani or El Cyanid or whomever, not only did he not do it, he didn't endorse Mom Dani. He did meet with him finally very late, but he didn't endorse him. But he has also said a number of things, including in the past week, you know, attacking the DSA, attacking progressives. So he looks like a guy who's on the attack against members of his own party, but willing to compromise with the fascist in the White House. So it doesn't look good for Jeffries either. But it is a sign that, you know, the worm is turning in Washington. Power is shifting. And, you know, I had a bunch of meetings in the past week with people who are affiliated

with like the defense sector and, you know, lobbying firms in D.C. And they're all like, what do we do now? Like, you know, we've gone all in on Trump. Trump demands loyalty. You know, the big tech companies are all like trying to be close to Trump. And they're wondering, how do they get out from under it? Do we just hire some Democrats? Because now we need to deal with the Democrats.

Is there going to be a penalty? Are they going to investigate our sweetheart deals with the Department of Defense? And the answer is, yeah, yeah, you guys got too close to the sun, and it's going to burn you. I wonder if they're also freaked out by the news that Jared Kushner and Hakeem Jeffries have been having secret meetings. Well, I think a lot of them love that because I think what they see there is, oh, maybe this can be business as usual. We'll go from one party to the other and we'll just give a little more money to the other party and You know, there'll be a transition and Jared will go from dealing with Mike Johnson to dealing with Hekeen Jeffries and you know, we'll find a way forward in all of this

And of course Trump has been going around and you know he said it I think at a at a rally the other day You know he has been going around saying if the Democrats get elected they will impeach me And I think part of what what he's trying to do here is he says to Jared, go reach out to them. Like, you know, I don't, he really doesn't want to be impeached again. There are a lot of Democrats who are like, what's the point? But I think Trump sees the point.

He knows how devastating that would be to his administration, to his reputation. And there's no assurances that the next impeachment turns out the way the last did, where the Senate defends it. Because everybody in the Senate saw what happened then. You know, January 6th happened then. The second Trump term happened then. The most corrupt government in American history happened then. And so, you know, it may be several people will say, well, I might sit this one out

or I might shift my vote on one or two things. And I think Trump's terrified. And I think, you know, just as he sends Jared to deal with the Iranians and Jared to deal with the Russians, when he's got some big issue, he sends Jared. So do you think Jared is looking at the exodus from? the White House in terms of staff, the administration staff, and thinking, oh, this is pretty bad. I mean, Jared must see this. I would think, through clearer eyes. We know that he's busy, you know, scooping up funds for affinity partners, his company, which is funded by the Saudis.

But how bad is this for Jared, do you think? Well, look, I mean, Jared has been very canny about this. You know, he got in, he got close, he's cashed in, he's created a fund. You know, he's got a multi-billion dollar fund. He's never managed a fund before in his life. You know, he's got global status. He's seen as a master diplomat, even though nothing that he has negotiated with maybe one exception has ever really been that successful. And I think, you know, once you've got a few billion dollars in the bank, you're okay, even if the political worm terms, unless, unless there are investigations that reveal irregularities that put him in legal trouble. And it's, that's not, that's not impossible. He may be seeing that. But, you know,

this exodus from the White House, which continues at a remarkable pace. Here it is, I think these people think it's August and nobody's going to pay attention. But what do we have? Four, five, six people leave the White House senior staff in the past three weeks. That's a sign. That's a sign. These people look at what's happening in November, and they don't want to be at the end of the line trying to get jobs out of this administration. They want to get out while they can still say, oh, look, I'm close to the president and who knows what's going to happen in the future. And they also realize that as we get closer and closer to the election and closer and closer to a big defeat, and possibly after a big defeat, Trump's going to go berserk. It's going to be

a real unhappy place to work in the White House. And on top of that, who knows what insane illegal schemes he's going to start asking the people around him to participate in with regard to rigging the elections. You know, you already seen the past couple of days, the post office saying, well, we're going to pass this regulation. And if you don't, you know, give certain things to the government, we won't, you know, handle your mail-in ballots. That's not legal. There's already lawsuits against it, but wherever he can push, you know, and you've seen this with other cabinet departments, they are trying to put pressure on local governments regarding the elections to try to put their thumb on the scale. And so will illegality be involved? Almost certainly.

Has illegality taken place? Almost certainly. And of course, he's got his own person at the DOJ now, Todd Blanche. Well, he's got, I mean, he's got, you know, He's done something pretty remarkable. And I actually wrote a column about this for you guys, which will appear today, I'm told, on Monday, the day this podcast comes out about how Trump has somehow, while he's been busy being the worst president in history, according to all historians, put together the worst cabinet in history. And every single person in his cabinet is the worst person. in their job that has ever held that job. And there have been real bad attorney generals. John Mitchell went to jail.

There have been attorney generals that led Red Scare roundups of raids or have been forced out of office before. But you know, Todd Blanche is in a category of his own. He's the one cutting the deal with Jolane Maxwell. He's the one hiding the Epstein files. He's the one launching vindictive prosecutions. He's the one that oversaw the conversion of the Department of Justice from being the engine of ensuring just outcomes in the United States judicial system to being the private lawyer

of the president doing the president's bidding. But I can go straight down the list. And in this column, I do, whether it's Rubio, Hegsseth, Blanche, Bessent, RFK Jr., whether you're looking at the Department of Interior, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, each one of these people is actually the worst one to ever hold the job they have. And the facts are there. This is not opinion.

I mean, I've written a bunch of histories of the White House and how it looks and I take this stuff seriously, and I don't just write things or say things because they have. you know, sort of, you know, emotional value. I think we're seeing something extraordinary here. This is idiocry. This is the most corrupt, incompetent, dangerous collection of senior officials we've ever seen. So let's just take Pete Hegzeth as one example, who we know has been, well, he's renamed himself the secretary of not defense anymore, but the secretary of war, which is highly appropriate, given that he's managed to get into what looks like a forever war. But he was sauntering around Iowa last week saying he was there on a personal trip.

That seemed to be sending a signal that he was thinking of being, you know, running for president in 2028. Seemed to be. I mean, look, you go to Iowa, you're telling the world, I'm thinking about running for president. That's the only reason to go there, you know, all the delicious fried foods at the Iowa State Fair or the butter sculptures, notwithstanding. And, you know, there were a bunch of stories that came out in the press after Pete Eggseth went there in his shirt sleeves and, you know, made his, you know, attempted rousing speeches over his great record. But, you know, he calls himself the Secretary of War because he thinks it sounds more, you know, tough. guy and high tea, you know, but the reality is his record of defeat in Iran, of war crimes, of mismanagement of the department, of depleting our reserves so that we're not prepared

in another kind of a conflict, et cetera. You know, there are a lot of other names we could call him. Secretary of Defeet comes to mind. You know, he has, he has been a failure at the Department of Defense unlike any we have ever seen. We typically, regardless of which party we're in, you know, take national security very seriously. And, you know, you may not like Dick Janie or Donald Rumsfeld, and you may have thought they did a lot of bad things, which they did.

But there was a certain sense of, let's keep it professional. And that's out the window. And that's why people in the military can't stand this guy. It's why people in foreign governments don't trust this guy. And it's why he would be a terrible candidate for president of the United States, an unthinkable candidate. And I am absolutely certain that he could not win election, except that the last time I said that, You know, often on national television in 2015. It was telling everybody Donald Trump could never be president.

So what are you saying, David, that everything you say is completely wrong? I don't think everything I say is completely wrong, Joanne. I did, after all, say Mark Carney was the new leader of the free world, and that turned out to be true. And I am emulating your fashion sense, which is a smart move. But in this particular case, you know, I was wrong about Trump actually being elected. I was right that Trump was the biggest threat to this country that we've ever seen. And I stand by that. But, you know, while I want to just say, well, Heggseth is an idiot and a failure.

And so he could never be president. You never know what the appetite of the American people may be for another idiot who's also a failure. Well, well, well, David Rothkopf, on that note, I think we all need to go and take a Xanax. Enjoy the last couple of weeks of summer. I fully intend to. What are you doing for the next two weeks, David? I am just writing columns for the Daily Beast and writing columns from our substack need to know and writing and doing podcasts for Need to Know and Deep State Radio.

and working and working and working because I'm a worker bee. You're a worker bee. Excellent. Well, you're certainly wearing the yellow and black stripes of a worker bee, David. And you are the queen bee, Joanna. And that's why I chose. In my dreams. In my dreams, I'm the queen bee.

David, it's always good to start the week with you. Next week I'll be talking to you from Yorkshire, I think. I'm going to take a quick break. Go back and see my father. but hopefully the Wi-Fi will be working and if not I've actually bought myself a portable Starlink so we'll see if I can get that up and running to help the production group

I hope you do not have to enrich Elon to do this podcast I fear I may have to enrich Elon it's already spent the money but let's see if he can get us connected David I look forward to talking to you next week and onwards onwards and possibly downwards and possibly downwards possibly sideways But possibly, the state motto of New York is Excelsior, which means ever upwards. Ever upwards. Well, let's embrace that. Ever upwards, David. And I'll see you next Monday.

See it. Well, that's our setup for your week. David Rothkopf guiding us through the Middle East, through diplomatic relations with Canada, throwing a bit of Mexico in there and saying that of the three countries, Donald Trump looks to be the weakest leader. I think that was my favorite part of the conversation, please comment on what your favorite part of the conversation was. And do you have questions for David? If you did, you can call our number at the top of the episode description box, or you can comment on YouTube.

We read as many comments as we possibly can. I answer as many as I possibly can, and we love hearing from you. And obviously, if you have been, big thank you all for joining us. And a thank you to our production team. Today, it's John Romero, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Pissarro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out.

And we really appreciate your support.