The Daily Beast Podcast - Trump's Epstein Scandal Can't Stop Won't Stop

Episode Date: July 27, 2025

Michael Wolff joins Joanna Coles to reveal the rising panic inside Trump’s inner circle as the Epstein scandal metastasizes. With Ghislaine Maxwell serving 20 years in prison, Wolff outlines how a meeting between her and Trump’s former lawyer—now the No. 2 at the DOJ—Todd Blanche, is raising serious questions about a possible deal. Wolff details Trump’s decade-long friendship with Epstein, the infamous 50th birthday letter, and how they shared a girlfriend who moved between the two men. He describes a White House gripped by fear as “Epstein intelligence” emerges—emails, photos, and files that could expose just how “bad” Trump’s “bad boy years” really were. MAGA world, Wolff warns, may not survive what Maxwell has to say. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael, if it turns out that Gillen Maxwell does have compromising material on the president, what is the MAGA-based reaction? Violent? That's going to be a major issue. I'm Joanna Cole's chief content officer of The Daily Beast. You are, I hope, driving your car, working out at the gym, or possibly like the president, playing golf, to this Daily Beast podcast. If you've enjoyed it, share it with a friend, share it with your entire contacts book,

share it with your own little black book, just like Jeffrey Epstein. But leave us a comment on YouTube so we know what you think and we can respond to what you think. And we do listen to your comments and read your comments. And actually, I wanted to address one, which is a very good one that people, several people called us out for talking about Jeffrey Epstein's victims as young women or underage women when, of course, they were school girls. They were school girls. So good call out. We did it largely just to avoid report. repeating the same word, but very good call out. There is a big difference between young women and

schoolgirls. And of course, an extraordinary week. I know I overuse the word extraordinary and how can one not in the era of Donald Trump as new norms are broken every single day. But this week, we see the number two in the Justice Department, Todd Blanche, Donald Trump's former personal lawyer, hot footing it down to the Tallahassee court where he talked to. to Gillen Maxwell, sentenced for 20 years for sex trafficking, young girls, to talk to her about what she knows, as this story will not leave the president alone, his relationship, of course, with Jeffrey Epstein, who better to get into it with, of course, than Michael Wolfe,

the author of four books on Donald Trump, and importantly, also two books on Rupert Murdoch, because this week Rupert Murdoch is a player because his newspaper, the Wall Street Journal has been breaking story after story in this remarkable scandal. So, no more time to waste. Michael, let's get into it. Okay, Michael Wolfe, very good to be back with you, sir. You are the man for the moment.

You've been everywhere. I felt slightly cheated on while I was away because I kept seeing you in other podcasts. That's what happens when you go away. Well, I'm back. I'm back, so no more, please. You know, what are you hearing? What are you hearing from your sources in the White House? I mean, it's full panic.

I think people are genuinely inside the White House, genuinely concerned about where we are. I mean, and I don't think, and I think they're confused about it because they don't know. It's not as if Donald Trump sits down and says, this is our exposure. He says he just denies, which is actually they call me to find out what I know. So have any of them read the Epstein files? I mean, the documents that Pam Bondi said told the president that he was in? I don't think so. I mean, I'm not actually sure that files in that coherent sense actually exist.

And I think there are probably, if you defined what this is, it's pretty disparate. So it's more, it's intelligence. It's Epstein intelligence, and he crops up all the time in it, because as you keep pointing out, he was an incredibly close friend of Jeffrey Epstein's for many, many years. Yeah, and I think this idea the Epstein files is almost a, it may be kind of metaphoric. There are things that the government knows about Jeffrey Epstein. Is it gathered in one place?

Is it accessible? Is it, I mean, for one of the things there are, one of the things that would be particularly revelatory are the emails. Is that included? Well, we don't, we don't know. Wait a minute, which emails? Well, the email, you know, they go into Epstein's house. They take his computer and his hard drives.

Well, he has emails on there. Theoretically, you know, I mean, how far back do your emails go? I'm sure that, you know, for all this. But Donald Trump famously doesn't email, so he wouldn't be expected to have emails from the president on there. No, but he's going to have emails from Steve Bannon on there, for instance, and many others. And he's going to be on, Epstein is going to be on the emails talking to other people. And Epstein spent a lot of time talking to people around Donald Trump. I mean, so just as a for instance, Tom Barrack, who was a very close friend of Trump's, a senior advisor, senior most advisor, during the first administration, who is now the ambassador, I should have this into my fingertips, but I do not, the ambassador to somewhere, and who was actually indicted at one point.

looking it up as you speak. Indicted for for various things having to do with his involvement with Trump. Turkey. A very close friend of Jeffrey Epstein's. I knew Jeffrey Epstein introduced me to Tom Barrack during the first administration. But anyway, he would, I mean, that's just one example of the kinds of people of the kind of person, Epstein would have been talking about Trump on a pretty constant basis. Okay, so we know that inside the White House, they're completely panicked about how to handle this.

This is totally riled up the Maga base. It's not going away. The attempt to deflect by creating, by using Tulsi Gabbard to talk about Barack Obama hasn't worked. We're recording this on Friday lunchtime earlier this morning. on his way to Scotland said he had the power to pardon Gillen Maxwell, but he hadn't yet thought about it. Let me interrupt, though. Hold on.

He also said that people should look at the former president of Harvard, Larry Summers, and other big private equity people who lived with Jeffrey Epstein, which Donald Trump certainly didn't do. Well, I don't know. I think it's more Trump in Epstein, lived, spent significantly more time in proximity. I mean, you know, so that's one of the things. And I wasn't meaning that they didn't live together.

I was meaning Trump said that. Trump said he didn't live with him. Yes. But, well, in the general sense, I mean, this is where MAGA has been hoisted to, which is to say, yeah, there are a lot of people. I mean, a formidable and eye-popping list of people who were around Jeffrey Epstein. absolutely, and this is absolutely true, but that hardly negates the fact that the person who spent the most time with Jeffrey Epstein, I mean, more than a decade of constant contact was Donald Trump. So, you know, so this is, this is, I mean, that deflection, look over there, you know, Larry Summers is, is going to be, it's going to be difficult.

And I think it just kind of comes, brings it actually back to the fact that, yes, these guys spent time with them. And a lot of these people have been, have their reputations in careers have been damaged because of it. But no one has spent as much time as Trump. You know, I was, I was talking to someone, a White House person last night. And again, you know, very, very worried. And it was telling anything that they said, this person said, said, you know, there's always been a kind of, you know, fear of, you know, Trump's, what he called Trump's bad boy years.

But then he said, but now the fear is that those bad boy years may have been far badder than we really appreciate and that they may be too bad for the MAGA people to tolerate. So that's absolutely fascinating. I mean, not unlike actually P. Diddy with his bad boy records. And of course, the freak-offs turned out to be much more violent than anybody expected. So I've been dying to talk to you about the birthday letter that Donald Trump apparently wrote for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday. And this idea that they shared a wonderful secret. What do you think he's referring to? I think that he is referring to the to the girlfriend that they shared at that point in time, 92, 93. So there was a woman, and as far as I know, she's not underage, but who they literally shared, who literally went back and forth between these two guys. And she went back and forth in the same bed with the two of them. Was it a threesome or she was dating both of them separately?

I don't know the mechanics. I know that during the same period, they openly, this wasn't hidden from either one, they openly shared this particular woman that she was, went out with both of them at the same time and two there, and they both understood this. So the Wall Street Journal's been doing some superb reporting on this. And obviously Trump has now suing the Wall Street Journal and taking on his old friend, Rupert Murdo. What is, what are your thoughts about that?

Well, you know, I think within the White House, I mean, I know some background here. Within the White House, they regard this. And, you know, and, you know, briefly to recap, this is the Wall Street Journal published a letter that Donald Trump wrote to Jeffrey Epstein on the occasion of his 50th birthday in 1993. Trump, by the way, denies that he ever saw this letter, and it certainly was not his letter, although his signature seems pretty clearly to be Donald Trump, and it would have been completely in character for him to write his best friend, this birthday greeting. at any rate. And this was solicited from Donald Trump. There were many others who wrote letters, too,

but solicited from Donald Trump by Galane Maxwell. Yes, as Trump himself has pointed out, Bill Clinton also wrote a letter. The view within the White House is that this letter came to the Wall Street Journal via the Maxwell side, the Maxwell family, the Maxwell family lawyers. Galane Maxwell's brother has been very out front in defending his sister who was in jail for 20 years. Right. So this is Ian Maxwell, who's a well-known figure in the London seat. Exactly. So inside the White House, they believe this came from the Maxwell side, and they interpret this as a, quote, shot across the bow, which is to say that Galane Maxwell, who at this point in her life has nothing to lose.

I am sure is seeking leverage in any way she possibly can, that this is an announcement, a threat, an announcement that she has damaging material on Donald Trump. Hence, a full-scale panic. The number two in the Justice Department, Todd Blanche immediately scheduled a meeting with Galane Maxwell, which is totally exceptional. That's the number two in the Justice Department would schedule a meeting. with a convicted felon, one convicted for, no less for sexual offenses. Well, for sex trafficking girls, underage girls. Yes. And but anyway, so he rushed down to meet with her.

Again, this is extraordinary. The number two of the Justice Department. Well, let's just remind people that Todd Blanche was Donald Trump's lawyer during this Dormey Daniels trial. Yes. He was Donald Trump's personal lawyer. He represents Donald Trump. But Donald Trump's had lots of lawyers.

It seems doubly ironic because he's always firing them, that this would be the lawyer from the Stormy Daniels trial, which Donald Trump lost. Yeah, well, Donald Trump's relationship with his lawyers is always a Trump subtext. And, you know, and I did a lot of reporting on this, and this is in my book All or Nothing, the relationship he has with these, especially with these lawyers who were with him during the Stormy Daniels trial, but during all of his legal problems during the campaign. And this includes Amil Boeve or Boeve, who's now. who holds a significant position in the Justice Department and who is now up for a seat on a significant appeals court, and many people say is being prepped to go on to the Supreme Court.

Alina Haba in New Jersey, and she's the federal prosecutor there, who can't get confirmed by the Senate, who a who a, in an appellate court there has said, has refused to appoint to extend her temporary

appointment and appointed someone else who the Justice Department has now fired but at any rate one of the things that goes on with these lawyers, these are his personal lawyers and he has crucified them all.

I can't describe his treatment of these people. And effectively, what he does is he breaks them. I mean, they can't ever have had a professional instance in their life in which is so debasing. And I think what happens is that having done this, then they under, they're broken. They understand that they have only one role in life, and that is to serve Donald Trump. So describe the debasing behavior that he does? You do write about how he

screams at certainly at Alina Harbor. It's screaming, you know, in vilifying them, you're a piece of shit. I never saw somebody so incompetent. There's one of one of the lawyers, you know, he just went after, it went after, went after. And in the middle of it, they come out of the, they come out of the courtroom and the guy has like a rid spot on his head, you know, whether it's a dermatological issue or whether it's just anxiety. Right, it's a flare-up of anxiety, physical manifestation. And Trump looks at, he says, what's that?

Right. And he says, that's not a good look. Get rid of it. You know, there's one guy, you know, in the break room, you know, there's only one bathroom. This is a courthouse. This is a criminal court. There's only one bathroom in there. And one of these lawyers, God knows he might say, what was he thinking, uses the bathroom.

he's banished. Get him out of here. He's used my bathroom. Get him out of here. So it's that it's just everybody is treated. He doesn't remember any of their names. You, lawyer. And then again, and it is, I mean, there was one guy, and he goes on at length, you can't talk. What's a problem with you? You can't talk. Why can't you talk? You know what you sound like? And then he made. makes funny, that that, that, that, that imitation that makes everybody like, you know, he goes like, oh, um, um, so it's a horrible person to work for. Nevertheless, if you're Todd Blanche, you can't ever have thought that you would end up as the number two in the justice department. Right. And so you understand your job is, you know, remember, the Justice Department of the United States has always had been regard, well, at least in the modern era, post-watergate, has,

protected its independence. Yes, we are part of the executive branch, but no, we are not under the direct control of the executive branch. And Trump has said basically, that's bullshit, you're under my direct control. In fact, you are my lawyers. You do not represent the United States of America. You represent me. So, and that's obviously true for Pam Bondi, the attorney general, who doesn't know, you know, caught in the headlights on this, on this thing. Yes, we're going to release the Epstein files. Oh, no, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, we're not releasing them. So it's a, again, we're back to one of one of those moments, which is a fundamental change in the nature of the government and how the government works. And right now, it is full out.

we are there to protect Donald Trump. We are, and this is the interesting thing, you know, the Justice Department at various points, Nixon especially, has tried to use the Justice Department to further a cover-up. And that was really rather precisely what Watergate was about. Right, it's never the crime. It's the cover-up. Nixon did that in the dead of night. This is not in the dead of night. This is incredibly out front. There's no pretense otherwise. Protect the president.

Michael, hold that thought. Again, take some ads. We're right back with Michael Wolf talking about the Gillen and the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. So what do you think Donald Trump thought or said when Pam Bondi told him he was in the Epstein, so-called files? Well, I'm not sure what was told. And I rather think that this is that they are now putting this out there as let's let's, let's, let's, um, Let's test the waters. Let's do a little, a little preparation of the ground here because this could be, this could be pretty bad.

Or conversely, she told them he said, like what? And she, and I can't imagine this conversation because you cannot bring Donald Trump bad news. You cannot. but let's assume that she might have said something and he said, oh, yeah, shut this down, forget about it. Well, and Elon then immediately put it out. Yeah, no, precisely. I mean, I don't see how you can shut this down. This is out there, and that's what he's dealing with right now.

This is the thing. And let's remember, this has always been on the, you know, a storm on. the horizon. Steve Bannon meets Jeffrey Epstein for the first time, and the first thing he says is you were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign, the 2016 campaign. I go to Mar-a-Lago to interview Trump, and I tell AIDS that one of the topics I'd like to discuss is Epstein. They said, if you bring that up, the interview will end there and then. Wow. So Todd Blanche flees down to Tallahassee to the courtroom to talk to Gillen Maxwell. Do we have any sense of what he said? We know the questioning went on. He's back at it again today. Her lawyer, David Marcus, who is a friend of Todd Blanche, came out and said that Gillen miraculously answered every question, honestly, and didn't plead the fifth in any way. What are your thoughts about what's going on there? I would imagine that she is outlining what she has on the president of the United States,

and they are evaluating how damaging that is and evaluating how credible what she has to say is. So they're negotiating. She is now putting her goods on the table. and, you know, and then they'll have to respond. What are the, and so we go into the cover-up territory, what are the inducements they might offer to keep her quiet in some? Right. So she says she's got information that she saw the president with Jeffrey Epstein.

Let's just sort of game this out. She's seen President Trump with Jeffrey Epstein in a compromising position, let's just say. And she wants either a reduction in her sentence or she wants a full pardon. I'm just sort of fascinated to think about what Todd Blanche has to play with there. I think, I think, I mean, the first is, what do you got? Is this damaging? Well, if you're Gillen Maxwell, and as you said earlier, she's got nothing to lose,

why wouldn't you just say you've got the goods? I mean, who's going to know? They're going to say, what evidence do you have? You know, I mean, remember, this is this is Donald Trump. If Galeen Maxwell says, comes out and says, you know, he did this, he did that. And he, and he says, I didn't. This is a lie. Remember, denial is a very powerful tool for Donald Trump.

But does she have things that cannot be denied? I mean, he already. She certainly left the courtroom with a big box of files yesterday. I mean, who knows what was in. Well, who knows. Who knows what's in that. So it's that, you know, and remember, level of denial, this letter, the letter that the journal published is, you know, is, is, is

certainly convincing right time, right place, right characters. Well, and it stands to reason that someone would have a copy of it. And plus the journal is publishing it. The journal doesn't publish things that it is, that it doesn't, that it hasn't taken a fairly close look at, and especially understanding that Trump might well come after them. So, but even in that case, what did Donald Trump say? Nothing to do with me. I don't see. This wasn't me at all.

I don't know where this came from. So therefore, they'll look at what Galane has and say, well, you know, we can just deny that. And who you're going to believe, a convicted felon or the president of the United States. Or they're going to look at what she says and says, oh, my God. You know, this is really going to be hard to get out from under. Right. And you can deny it, but there are pictures. I mean, there's lots of pictures of him with Epstein.

We know they were really good. Well, we already know that. So that's not the issue. The issue is what does she have that goes beyond that? Michael, if it turns out that Gillen Maxwell does have compromising material on the president, and Todd Blanche advises Donald Trump to give her a pardon or commute her sentence in some way, what do you think the Maga's base, what is the MAGA base reaction? Violent.

That's going to be a major issue. It's going to be a major issue. The choice that he will have to make is between protecting himself or and dealing with the base. Somehow he's got to bring those two together. He's got to get the base to recognize that without him there is no MAGA. But this is a complicated, really complicated trick. Can he pull that off? I'm not sure.

And where is J.D. Vance in all this? Hiding. He's in a hiding. I mean, you know, I mean, J.D. Vance is cannot, for his own political future, cannot lose the MAGA base. but for his own political future, he cannot lose Donald Trump. Go figure. And Mike Johnson, I suddenly saw Mike Johnson as a potential candidate today when he said, well, we have to let this play out.

We need to understand it. These are heinous crimes. I suddenly thought, oh, Mike Johnson is going to run too. Well, I mean, I think everybody's going to run. I mean, this is, you know, there is going to be no Donald Trump. So for the first time in 10 years, more than 10 years, it's going to be a wide open Republican opportunity. So everybody is going to be in.

And for Rupert Murdoch, who seems, I mean, the Wall Street Journal and Conflict of Interest Alert here, Emma Tucker, who's the executive editor of the Wall Street Journal, is a close personal friend of mine. She's been doing a stellar job at the Wall Street Journal. But what do you think of Trump's very aggressive law school? suit against them. I mean, he's suing them for libel. They've banned them. Well, he sues, well, he sues everybody. I mean, he sued the New York Times and a number, a number of times. I mean, you know, this is settled with ABC and he settled with Paramount. But, but, well, well, well, draw a distinction, though, because I think it's important,

it's important here. This is Rupert. This is Donald Trump's playbook. You sue in it. And litigation for Donald Trump is not necessarily about, um, about winning in the, in, in, in, in, in court. It's about a headline. It's about it's about staking his, his virtue, moral claims. I am going to sue. I mean, he sued all his life. That's what he does. The fact that he is, that these lawsuits against media organizations by Donald Trump are routinely tossed doesn't make any difference.

And, you know, because they have, they have two effects. They get the headline. I'm a victim. I'm wounded. And they send a chill to other organizations. He's been, in the last number of months, he's settled with two major media organizations, ABC and CBS. These were specious lawsuits that would have been dismissed if these organizations had pursued them. Instead, they settled. They settled because their, because they're. Their parent companies had other interests before the government.

They said this was a kind of, you know, let's say it. It was a kind of bribe. And in fact, the money, the settlements, $15 million in one case, $16 million in other case, goes to Donald Trump, not to the government of the United States. Now, Rupert Murdoch, who has been doing this for more than 70 years, does not settle these kinds of lawsuits, especially specious ones, that he is going to win. And so I would say the purpose is for, as I said, it's to make a headline and to send a chill to other media organizations. But in Donald Trump's inimitable fashion, he recognizes a weakness

here. And he has been going around saying to people, Rupert, who is 94, is going to die any minute. And his son is a weakling. His son is Lachlan Murdoch who will take over the organization upon his father's death and is, in any interpretation, a weakling. Would Lachlan Murdoch settle with Donald Trump? Yeah, yeah, probably immediately. So this is a bet by Donald Trump that Rupert Murdoch will die before any kind of discovery would take place in this?

It's win-win for him anyway. He gets to get the headline, gets to send the chill, even if Rupert Murdoch, you know, many people have anticipated Rupert Murdoch's death for many years. And yet he goes on. And he may well go on long enough for this suit to be dismissed, which would happen in the next number of months, probably. But cream on top, if he dies, Lockland might well settle and Donald would connect. Michael, we need to take some ads. We'll be right back. And we're back with Michael Wolfe talking about the Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein affair. Well, we should certainly do another episode on just on Donald Trump and Rupert Murdoch's relationship. But I just want to revisit one final point before we eventually meet again very soon.

hope next week to figure out what on earth the conversation has been with Tom Blanche and Gillam Maxwell. But the Tulsi Gabbard of all this, too, the sudden creation or the sort of revisiting of the Russia story and the implicating of President Obama and then Obama's unusually reacting to it. Well, you know, Tulsi Gabbard is, I mean, he has treated her like he has treated his lawyers. I mean, he's really, he's really pushed. her out. She did something that that

he didn't like she was immediately pushed out everybody in the administration. Was that over the Iran? Yes. Yes. Yes. So she said they didn't have the capabilities to make nuclear weapons. Exactly.

And then she immediately had to backtrack on it. Do you remember that three weeks ago? So everybody has told her your toast, you're finished. You know, you might as well just go home. and people have blanked her. I mean, I've heard about this all. Tulsa, I get it.

Don't be anywhere near her, but she's losing. Don't get in a photo with her. Tell shares in Tulsa Gabbard. And she's been desperate. You know, this has been, you know, I mean, Tulsa, Tulsa Gabbard, you know, basically has not been able to get arrested in public life for many years. And then she's finally, you know, sucked up to Trump.

I mean, really sucked up, got this job. And now, you know, six months, seven months in, it was imperiled. So what did she do? I mean, she's smart enough to know what she had to do. She had to give Trump a headline, even if it was entirely ridiculous. And she's going to, you know, send Barack Obama to jail. I mean, it doesn't matter. It's all made up.

She made it up. It's a concoction, but it saves her skin. Well, and interestingly, it actually provoked Barack Obama. Obama's team to come out with a statement and just say this is ridiculous distraction from actually what's going on. Right, right. Which seems to have killed the story. I mean, sometimes they put out nonsense and it holds up the news agenda for a bit.

But this one seemed to come and go very quickly. Yeah, no, I mean, it's just, you know, what can you say? We were talking about Iran. What was it? Three or four weeks ago, I'd just come back from another trip. It was all about Iran. It's just extraordinary how the news cycle moves on, but on this particular story, on the Jeffrey Epstein story, it is stuck and the MAGA base will not let it go. The MAGA base will not let it go. Obviously, the mainstream media has picked it up, which is totally, you know, I mean, again, a shock.

where have they been? And I think it is worth reminding people that this story of Donald Trump's close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, we, the Daily Beast, and I got together a week before the election and released, which had Jeffrey Epstein saying very specifically Donald Trump was his best friend for over a decade. And how did the media respond? Crickets. And...

Well, people can go back and find those stories, actually, on our website. So, you know, it's, you know, it has finally broken through, I think. And the media, which has been incredibly confused about this story, very reluctant, not wanting to deal with it, I think, for a whole variety of reasons, which we can at some future point discuss in detail because I think it's interesting. But they're forced into it now. I mean, it's it's front and center. It is the story. And weirdly, the Macabase is conspiracy. theory that Jeffrey Epstein was at the center of a global cabal of elite men on both sides of the

aisle. Actually, for once, it's a conspiracy story which has a lot of truth in it. Well, all conspiracies, all conspiracy theories, well, maybe not Pizza Gate. I was going to say Pizza Gate, absolutely not. Yeah, but many conspiracy theories have a lot of, have an element of truth in them, but in the conspiratorial telling, the emphasis is all wrong. The conclusions are all wrong. And I think that that is also probably the case in the Epstein story. But it is true that enormous numbers of influential and powerful people were gravitated to Jeffrey Epstein, were attracted to Jeffrey

Epstein found his presence really compelling. But again, it is important to remember, which the mega people somehow overlooked, that the person who found him most compelling for the longest period of time, who was his true friend, not just a visitor, was Donald J. Trump. With whom he shared a wonderful secret. So Michael, the minute you find out what Gillen Maxwell and Todd Blanche's conversation is about, please come back and enlighten us. And obviously we'll be watching Donald Trump's behavior incredibly closely as he plays golf in Scotland. And we will expect you to come back and interpret what's going on inside Trump's head.

I will see you soon. So many questions. Not least, what an earth can it be like to be Gillen Maxwell in that jail trying to figure out what. hope is there for you. And does she, as a lot of people are saying online, does she actually end up like her mentor and former lover and partner in crime, Jeffrey Epstein? Well, to stay on top of all developments, don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast.com, share this podcast with your friends, share it with your contacts book, and keep us posted with comments on YouTube about what you think. And what are your conspiracies about this? What are the questions that you would be

asking Michael Wolfe, who really is the authority on this subject, bar none? Don't forget, be Beast. And please join me in applauding our producers of this episode, Devin Roderino, Anna von Erson, and our editor, Jesse Millwood. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at thedailybeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.