The Daily Beast Podcast - Unhinged Truth About Trump’s Iran F-Bomb: Wolff

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Joanna Coles and Michael Wolff are back with a newsflash pod after President Trump dropped an unprecedented F-bomb on the White House lawn. Wolff—the author of 'All or Nothing'—joins Coles to unpack the deeper meaning behind Trump's outburst about Israel and Iran: "They don't know what the f*** they're doing." Wolff reveals how the comment wasn't a gaffe but the latest act in Trump's attempt to script what he calls "the perfect war"—a PR-driven spectacle shaped entirely by headline management, emotional whim, and circular phone calls. Coles and Wolff dissect how Trump has taken personal ownership of a war he likely doesn't intend to finish. With Trump's unkept performance—tie off, hair unruly, language raw it's a revealing look at a president desperate to direct a global conflict like a reality show finale. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know, the people around Trump always speak of his moods as they speak of the weather. What's the weather like? So you never, ever know. I'm Joanna Cole, Chief Content Officer of The Daily Beast. This is an emergency pop-up video because this morning, while I was watching the presidential press conference on the White House lawn in front of a gaggle of journalists as the president was getting ready to leave for the Netherlands, I suddenly heard him drop the east. F-bomb. It is not something I've ever heard an American president used before. He was talking about Israel and Iran, of course, the latest news from the weekend. And he suddenly said, you know, Israel and Iran have been at this so long. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. And I was really taken short. It felt like a moment. Who else did I want to talk to about this and what it

actually meant and how calculated it was. Who else but Michael Wolfe, the author of four books on Donald Trump, including the most recent one, All or Nothing. So we dragged Michael in front of his bookcase to do a quick 10 minutes decoding of what that F-bom was really revealing. Michael, I mean, I couldn't quite believe it when I heard, I think, what is the first, a president saying, fuck on the White House lawn. as he's dealing with a ton of journalists and he's about to get on Marine One and go off on his trip to the Netherlands. A lot of private fucks from presidents, but never public fucks. Never public fuchs. And also, we've heard them before.

I remember once with Gordon Brown, the then British Prime Minister, he was caught on a hot mic saying that a voter was a shit, which was unfortunate. But this feels to me like a new moment. We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long. and so hard that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Let me, I've been making, making calls. So I think I have a, I have a sense of the arc that got him, that, that's got us to where we are right now. And, you know, one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the sort of the ways I track

what he's thinking, I use the word thinking loosely, is to talk. talk to people he's talking to on the phone. He conducts, I mean, all of his, his internal thinking is external, and it's on in a series of, of his constant phone calls. And it's pretty easy to follow because he says the same thing to everybody. So it's this constant repetition. So basically, when the Israelis attacked Iran, he got, he got very excited about it. He got very excited about it. this. And his calls were, in the things that he repeated, are they going to win? Is this a winner? Is this game over? They are so good. This is really a showstopper. So again, we're in the land of performance. This is a stage. And so the day before we attacked Iran, his close,

calls were, he was constantly repeating. If we do this, it needs to be perfect. It has to be perfect. It needs to be a win. It has to look perfect. Nobody dies. And then my favorite, in, boom out. Big day.

We want a big day. We want, wait for it. a perfect war. Wow. Wow. I think, and I think, you know, he announced the ceasefire. That was the perfect war. And so suddenly with both Israel and Iran not cooperating in his staging of this, in the headline, he gets annoyed, of course.

And also, I think he stepped into the role that this is his war. This is his perfect war. and they're ruining it. So that was on Friday that he was having those conversations with people and he was like in, boom, out. I mean, just extraordinary. And also it's as if he's discussing the finale of a season that, again, with his television producer eyes,

this is drama of the highest level. Completely. You know, many wars are provoked by headlock. by propaganda, by people advocating for their position, trying to push people into wars. That's certainly what the neocons did for so long. But this is kind of the opposite. This is war to create a headline. And the headline is we won.

This is Trump's perfect war. He did everything right. So what you're seeing this morning, in front of the press is his frustration that this is not a perfect war, that somehow the ceasefire has not yet held. Both sides continued. And we're recording this on Tuesday lunchtime. It's hard to remember what day it is.

And we don't quite know if it's set in or not. But certainly, bombs were being dropped and missiles fired after he called for a ceasefire. the perfect everlasting ceasefire. Right. And I think this is also him showing ownership. I've taken, this is now my war. My, it's not just a perfect war. It's my perfect war.

And I'm in charge here. I'm in charge. Now I've got to tell the Israelis what to do. Right. Absolutely. Right. And everybody is going to do what I tell them to do. Except they're not going to tell him what to do.

They're not going to do what he tells them to do. They're going to do what they want to do. do. Well, yes, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is called war, yes. But isn't this also the trap that we have seen American presidents fall into before, certainly British prime ministers fall into before, where they get enamored of their own reputations on the world stage, they completely underestimate other countries and get sucked into something which they can't possibly anticipate? Absolutely. I mean, that's, That is the danger here.

I mean, unknown unknowns. We do not know what is going to happen today, no less tomorrow, except he is trying to say, I know what's, I can make this happen. And the difference between all those other people getting sucked into these extended and incredibly damaging commitments is that. they have the attention span to do that. He does not. So in a sense, that's the, that's the weird silver lining. He's not going to go forward with this. This is it. He's, he's, he's done this in, boom, out. And I do, and I don't see him going down and, and, and in becoming a wartime president and seeing this as, as something that he has to see to the end. All these other guys, that's it, I have to see it to the end. You know, Trump's whole impulse is exactly the opposite of that.

Michael, just hold that thought. We need to take some messages. And we're back after our sponsors, whom we love, but we want to get straight back into our conversation about Donald Trump's F bomb this morning. If you think about how annoyed he was, and you made the point that he reamed out Pete Higgsath, the Secretary of Defense, after the parade,

which was only a week. go. I mean, it's extraordinary that we had the birthday parade, his birthday, the birthday, 250th anniversary of the American Army. And then here we are suddenly with actual activity. The birthday parade and that charade forgotten. Are the National Guard even still in L.A.? Completely forgotten. Elon Musk, whatever happened to him. As you're always saying, This is all about just keeping moving. It's about forward momentum. It's about keeping eyes on him.

He struck me as looking. You don't often see him without a tie unless it's on the golf course. I appreciate it's very hot in D.C. And that he's about to travel. But nonetheless, seeing him without his tie, without his cap on, the hair looks unruly. He's using the word fuck, which we've never heard an American president used before, just felt like he'd lost a bit of control. I mean, to me, he always seems out of control.

So I don't, I don't exactly know what the comparison is there. The signaling, the signaling felt stronger than normal. Yeah, I mean, possible. I mean, it is really hot in Washington. I mean, really hot. So under those conditions, I actually thought he looked, he looked pretty good. Fair. But, you know, I think what he, I think the frustration is, is real. This was set up for him. Remember, he's the person who announced the ceasefire. I mean, the ceasefire didn't really exist until he announced it. It actually, there may not have been a ceasefire until he announced it. And then everybody has to say, oh, God, he's announced it. You know, yes, we have to, we have to accept a ceasefire.

fire. And, you know, but it's obviously a very tenuous thing. I mean, these, this, I mean, we know what Israel wants. We know what they believe they have to achieve. They very well may not have achieved that. And part of that other statement that he says is that it's absolutely demolished. We have done everything. They will never again have, be able to mount a, a nuclear effort here. gone over with. Now, that's completely untrue. Nobody knows actually where this is. Nobody knows what's left. Nobody knows what their capabilities are, except, I mean, probably more than anyone, the Israelis know what they are. Well, and there'll be some Iranians who know whether or not they actually moved the enriched uranium out of the basis. is exactly exactly but yes but but outside of of the iranians we don't know so the there the

the um there iran's enemies do not at this time know exactly where things stand and don't don't know where things stand he just has to but he doesn't really care that's not his issue his issue is it's a perfect war um and the perfect war means we have destroyed everything and it's over and we go on from there. I mean, I was very mindful of him saying, I've got to get Israel to calm down, as if somehow he can do that. Yeah, well, he is. I mean, seeing this all as a narrative, as a function of staging, and of course,

of him in charge. You know, that's what, you know, by sending in our weapons, we can, took over in his mind. Right. So he's in charge of the world. What do we think his Pips to his Gladys Knight are thinking about this? Marco Rubio, obviously, Secretary of State, Pete Higgs, Earth, Defense Secretary, and then J.D. Vance, who we know is an isolationist. Yeah. And we've we've heard some hesitations on their part. We don't know what this the the status on the ground actually is. And we heard that from General Kane, too, the Joint Chiefs of Staff. No, I mean, you know, I mean, I think one of the things you can read the fact that the Iranian

response was, you know, was meant not to provoke more retaliation, that it was an invitation to come to a ceasefire and perhaps come to an agreement, you could read that as, okay, you know, we can regroup here. I mean, this is not, we don't have to fight this to the death. You know, let's, let's lock in where we are and then build back up again. I think that's very plausible. So by the next time we speak, we're going to talk again tomorrow for a podcast that we'll put out on Thursday. will be in the Netherlands. Do you have any sense of what mood he's going to turn up in?

Nobody ever knows. You know, the people around Trump always speak of his moods as they speak of the weather. What's the weather like? And someone will say, oh, storms. And then they'll say, no, clearing. It's all clear. Sunny day. so you never, ever know.

And do you have any sense of when the Qatari plane is arriving? I was just thinking of him sailing off in the aging Air Force One, which I'm sure will annoy him. You know, I don't. See, another headline that's been buried. Now, the curious thing, if this war goes on, if the Israelis and the Iranians continue to fight, then Trump will have to invent another headline, and then we will forget about this war. Yep, yep. Well, one can only imagine.

Michael, I need to talk to you three times a day at the moment. There's just so much going on. But I'm looking forward to talking to again tomorrow for our next podcast that we'll drop on Thursday. Speak to you tomorrow. Okay. Perfect war. In our boom done.

This video was produced and edited by Jesse Millwood and produced with help from Anna von Erson. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast. the Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the Beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline.

Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.