The Daily Beast Podcast - Was This ‘Succession’ Line About Fascism The Best Yet?

Episode Date: December 24, 2021

The Last Laugh podcast host Matt Wilstein joins The New Abnormal co-host Molly Jong-Fast and producer Jesse Cannon in a crossover episode to talk about some of the best political comedy performances this year—from tidbits about SNL’s Biden and Trump actors to the best scene in this season of ‘Succession.’ For more great political comedy, listen to The Daily Beast's The Last Laugh podcast. If you haven't heard, every single week The New Abnormal does a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, the Daily Beast’s membership program. where Sometimes we interview Senators like Cory Booker or the folks who explain our world in media like Jim Acosta or Soledad O’Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner and sometimes its just discussing the fuckery. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a Beast Inside member where you’ll support The Beast’s fearless journalism. Plus! You’ll also get full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to this special holiday edition of the new abnormal. Today we're going to have some fun and we're going to discuss the year in political comedy. And joining us today to guide us through it is the Daily Beast Matt Wilstein, who hosts the Last Laugh podcast. Welcome to the new abnormal, Matt Wilstein. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be back. We love a crossover episode. We're all about synchronicity.

Yes. Synergy. So, Matt, I'm curious. 2021, good year, great year, bad year for political comedy. What would you feel about this year? It was better than 2020. I'm not sure that's saying much. 2020 was a rough year on all kinds of levels. But I think, you know, also it was a year of people figuring out how to be funny and sometimes struggling to be funny in a very dark year. And I think there was some return to normalcy, if I can use that word in 2021, on at least some

levels. So explain. S&L was an interesting, had an interesting year with some, a lot of new cast members, kind of moving out of the Alec Baldwin era was a big transition for that show, which was interesting to see. They had a Biden actor and then they didn't. Yes, there was a lot of interesting things happening with the Biden on SNL. They've had lots people do it over the years, you know, obviously Jason Sudecis back in the day, and then he came back and hosted this year and played Biden opposite the show's new Biden, who is also the show's new Trump. And this is a guy named James Austin Johnson, who really blew up on Twitter and Instagram with his Trump impression. You know what? Can I get 60 seconds on the clock, please? Because this bill is, you know what,

Sleepy Joe Biden is such a disaster. We're coming back. We're coming back at 2024. We're doing the reboot, okay? Everyone loves reboots. People loved it before. They're going to like it again, okay? Just like Icarly. Just like I Carly. But not all reboots are good, okay? Joe Biden tried to reboot Obama, and it flopped, okay? It flopped really bad just like the female Ghostbusters. And speaking of girl, okay, why did they reboot gossip, girl? Why the hell?

You simply can't match. You cannot match the electricity of Chuck Bass and Blair Waldorf. You know, there were times when Blair was a bad friend to Serena. And sometimes, you know what, this was true. Sometimes Serena was the bad friend of Blair. Oh. Oh, I hope this never ends. And got hired by SNL and now is also doing Biden on the show.

So so far they have not been able to have Biden and Trump appear together because it would be the same actor. They could do some clever editing. But in terms of live... Didn't they originally have a movie star playing Biden? Well, they did have Jim Carrey playing Biden during the campaign. And that was a full-on disaster. So that's a good example of why 2021 has been better than 2020, I would say.

I couldn't believe how bad. he was. Yeah, it was really painful. And then even after that, they had a different cast member playing him, this guy Alex Moffat, who plays, I believe he plays Eric Trump on the show as one of his, his best characters. But then I guess they didn't feel like that was really popping either, so then they brought in this new guy. Biden is not the, I would say, is not the easiest impression compared to Trump, which is a very easy impression. And I think the best Trump impression that I saw really this past year was from an old SNL guy, Dana Carvey, who, First premiered it, I believe, on Conan sort of just like chatting. He went into it and then actually did the whole like costume wig makeup thing on Colbert.

That does make a lot of sense. I mean, he's a master of impressions and has been for a long time. I think he captured something about Biden that that no one else quite has been able to. Specifically this new quieter, subtler Biden than the one that we saw back in the Obama years. So Mr. President, this is your first trip abroad since taking office. How's it going so far? Going great. Met the guy that runs England. Boris Karloff. A bit of Boris Johnson. Excuse me. Then I met the high school kid who runs France. Macaroni. Had tea with the Queen. I'm the president guy. Come on. Yeah, I know you are, sir. I'm happy that you are. Are you enjoying yourself in Belgium? Come on, man. Are you kidding me? Look at these crazy pancakes they got over here. Look at that. Go bumps everywhere. That's bonkers, man. Look at that. Come on.

Those are great, Mr. President. But I'm asking is, has it been, hard to reestablish diplomatic ties with our allies after the last president burned so many bridges. Look, look, okay. Let's be real. Let me be clear. The last guy, Trump, was bananas. Okay? But look at me. Look at me, Europe. I'm nice and easy. Listen to my voice. You know, I'm whispered calm. You know, not going to make any sudden moves. Look at my hands. Moving slow. Look at that. No herky jerky, just slow and easy. So one of the things people love to discuss is, is S&L good? Is it bad this year? Did you see anything strong with S&L this year?

You know, I think it was, it was not overall great, I would say, but there's always great things happening. And one that I think we should definitely highlight is this incredible Cecily Strong performance. She does, she does Janine Piro, which I love, and has always been really great at that. Box of wine. but she also did this very, really unique, great piece on Weekend Update just a couple months ago as a clown. Did you know one and three clowns will have a clown abortion in her lifetime? You don't, because they don't tell you.

They don't even know how to talk to other clowns about it. Because when they do talk about it, if you were a clown who wasn't the victim of something sad, like clown says, they think your clown abortion wasn't a righteous clown abortion. I mean, what the dick is that? I don't think you can say that word on the show. that word on the show. What, abortion? Well, I guess kind of. You know, it's funny, Colin. We're having fun. Just laugh. Hey, pull my finger.

No. Laugh. I need it. I need you to laugh so hard. Like the way I laugh, when the doctor asked if I got pregnant on the way over to the clinic, because I wasn't very far along. And that is one of my favorite jokes to this day. I love that joke. It's such a good joke. Not like a funny ha-ha joke, but like a funny, you're not an awful person and your life isn't over now, joke the best time a hunker hunker man yeah i mean abortion comedy not easy but uh but she really she pulled that off um and it stood out on s and l as something that was not obvious which they often do um and was really kind of

cutting and funny at the same time and um you know i thought i thought and personal i think for her even though she was playing this outrageous clown character i think that really did come from a real place for her which was great to see yeah I think it's like, you know, the mainstream doesn't always like to have to face the reality. And so it's nice to see SNL actually being brave about this. Yeah, I think that's right. I've talked to a few people over the years on, you know, on my podcast, The Last Laugh, who have tried to do abortion comedy.

You know, one who I had on for the second time this year was Jenna Friedman, who's this great comedian who did a whole, a whole hour sort of one woman show on abortion. I believe it's called Miscarriage of Justice. And so yeah, it's definitely, it's something that is, if you're going to do it, you better do it well. And I think this was also a great example of it. It's funny, you did a great interview with her. And she really is, I think, the person who's, like, best at doing uncomfortable comedy right now.

Like that episode she did with the cannibal cop of her show, Saw Focus is, I think one of the things I've shared the most and one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my entire life. Yeah, so funny. And then she kind of branched out this year. She's on this. She did this show called Indefensible, which really flew under the radar, unfortunately. But it's a true crime show, which has a lot of comedy in it, although when I asked her if it was a comedy show, she said no, which I thought was interesting. But it is very funny at the same time, just because I think she can't help it be funny. And she was a daily show field producer before that and also wrote on the Borat movie, which we talked about on last year's comedy episode.

And she was the one responsible speaking of abortion for that scene, that Borat scene in the abortion clinic or the place where it's not an abortion clinic that they go, where the guy tries to talk Borat's daughter out of having an abortion despite the fact that they tell her that Borat is the father of that baby as well. Yes. One of the things that some older comedians are kind of obsessed with is this idea that comedians are canceled, that certain comedians are canceled. that certain comedians, if they have more conservative views, are quote-unquote canceled. This has been a big topic that sort of gets us to Chappelle. Yes. Your idea of people who think that they're canceled or almost want to be canceled in a way is how I think of it. You know, especially with someone like Chappelle who this past year almost tried to cancel himself by putting out this big final Netflix special where he knew what he was doing, I think, in pushing. the line on these issues with the trans community, which is something that he's just been

obsessed with for, I think, too long now. And really, uh, kind of, you know, in, in my view, when I was watching it, I, I did feel like if there is a line in comedy, he went too far, not in the sense that it was so outrageously offensive that it, you know, that I, I, I didn't feel personally offended by it, but I think it was no longer funny. And that was what really, uh, killed him this year. And, you know, he's someone who I've thought is, has been very funny and for a long time and I was a huge fan of his and you know maybe I will be again but you know for me I think it was just the whole Chappelle thing was exhausting this year my god jk. Rowling wrote all the Harry Potter books by herself she sold so many books of Bible worries about her and they canceled

her because she said in an interview and this is not exactly what she said but effectually she said gender was a fact and then the trans community got mad as shit they started calling her a turf So I looked it up. Turf is an acronym. It stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminists. I'm Team Turf. I agree. I agree, man.

Gender is a fact. As someone who has, like, hasn't really been following it because it's so stupid, and also it's what he wants, is he just a big bully, or was there some really, like, subversive comedy in there? Yes, if there was subversive comedy, I didn't see it. I think that the thing that really got me, so I mean, for anyone who is living under a rock and doesn't know, or maybe didn't watch the special, because I think once all the controversy happened, there were probably a lot of people who said, well, I'm not going to watch that. There were some jokes in there, but he also just straight up came out and said that he doesn't believe that trans women are a thing,

and that he, you know, and he called himself Team Turf, which is, you know, aligning himself with J.K. Rowling. And he maybe was trying to make a point that he should be able to say whatever he wants. And I think he proved that point in a way because Netflix, despite protest, despite their own employees walking out and all this stuff, really stuck by him. And I think, you know, I don't know if he'll do another special with Netflix, but he is headlining opening their big festival in L.A. next this coming year, the Netflix is a joke festival, which is this insane every single, comedian you've ever heard of playing at different venues all over LA for a week.

And he's the opening night. And I think that says a lot about, you know, where Netflix is and what they, you know, that they are really saying, we're going to stick by him. And in a way, that's good because they're standing up for comedians being able to say whatever they want to say. But, you know, I think it does, it, there is some real life consequence to the stuff in terms of how, you know, violence against trans people and that that's a, it's a real concern that he has completely dismissed and doesn't believe that there are any consequences for this stuff.

And even Netflix basically said they don't believe that there are consequences for words, which I think is, doesn't, doesn't ring true to me. Do you think that all of the sort of bad feelings around what Chappelle did have sort of eclipsed any particular gain he might have gotten from the controversy? Well, I think it gained him a new or evolving fan base of these. You know, I think it's a lot of young men. It's the Joe Rogan crowd. He toured with Joe Rogan this past year as well.

And I think he's kind of aligning himself with that side. And there's been forever there's been talk about a civil war in comedy. And I think it really came up a lot around. This is another SNL thing. But if you remember the guy Shane Gapes, who was hired by S&L and then fired before he got a chance to start because all of this, you know, sort of racist and homophobic stuff came out that he had said. And, you know, I think it's a, there is, in a sense, these two sides of comedy, if you want to call it like woke comedy on

one side and whatever Chappelle and Joe Rogan are doing on the other side, anti-woke comedy. Yeah, reactionary bullshit, whatever we will. Yeah. I think, you know, he, he probably sees a big future for himself in that I worry about what all of those young men listening to Joe Rogan listening to some of the stuff Chappelle is saying, how that affects their outlook on a lot of issues and on life. Yeah. I feel like we're getting very serious for a comedy episode. Yeah, yes. It's true.

So why don't we turn that around? One of the things we were going to discuss is James Adomian's amazing Mike Pillow Guy impression here. Why don't I cue that up? Yes. Well, I know the My Pillow guy is a favorite. you know, on this show, Molly. Right.

Favorite of everyone. Who doesn't love a fascist pillow magnate? Okay, let's listen to this. Are you planning to run for governor of Minnesota? I wouldn't run to be a dog catcher right now if those machines are still in. Stop the presses. You got this guy out there. This is a fraud.

This is not the man. He needs some, you got to get this guy some blue shirts. Hold on a second. I'm as comfortable in my pajamas as I have in a bleeding man. on top of my head, Jimmy. You got this guy out here. He's claiming to be me. That's an imposter.

First they went for the phones. First they went for our phones, and now they're sending in clones. Look at them. That's not it. Now I don't know which one of you is which. I can feel it. I challenge you to a pillow fight at the Minnesota State Fair this summer.

You got it. You got it. That's where we settled. We settled this. Gonna kill you guys. You guys. are targets for killers. Jimmy, this is a chance for you to show

some leadership for once. It's a King Solomon moment. Cut the pillow in half. Whoever screams more, it's my pillow. All right. You know the problem with that is that it's not clear.

Don't mean it is the greatest in per se. Like, his gorka is just the greatest thing on earth. Like it fills me with joy. So to explain that a little bit, that was the comedian James Adomian as the My Pillo Guy and Mike Lindell, the actual My Pillar guy together on Jimmy Kim Alive. So that was when Jimmy had Mike Lindell on as a guest, which I think was a questionable decision, which I'm not sure went as well as we all would have liked because it really did legitimize him in a way that I think he probably, that Michael Indel probably enjoyed. but then the part that I really did enjoy is when they brought out James Adomian as as the My Pillow guy who he's been playing on Kimmel, you know, in the year leading up to that to kind of confront him on camera. So then they had two My Pillow guys going head to head. But yeah, Adomian is such a great impressionist, you know, speaking of people who do great political impressions. So it was kind of fun to see him show up with the actual My Pillow guy. I was out in LA for a quick run this year,

and I happened to go to a comedy set that had like nine decent comedians. And then he gets on stage. And I was kind of feeling bummed out about how not creative some people were. And I watched him do probably the greatest comedy set I've ever seen, not in a large theater. That was so dark, but like kind of exactly the opposite of Chappelle, that it was insightful and showed me things about the world that I had not thought about.

in a deep way. And really, he is just one of the greatest talents out there. Yeah, he really is. And I, yeah, I think this run that he's done on Kimmel has been really great. I would love to see him, you know, really get a chance to have his own show or do something bigger because he's so talented. So some comedy, though, like his imitation, you sometimes watch a show and you're like, is this real or is this a parody? And I didn't know anything about Zeeway when I first hit play on it. it took me a minute to realize it was a gag

but you picked out this really good clip of her show why don't we listen to that this one goes out to all my pores out there I know you're down on your luck but someone once told me being poor as a choice so stop stop being poor stop being poor

a wealth trickle down let the money hit the floor if you are a poor person then just go out and find a job if you can't secure a job then go to college don't be a blob. If you can't afford tuition, then try to get employed again. And if you still can't get a job, go work for your rich uncle then. Just stop being poor. Stop being poor. Let the wealth trickle down.

Let the money hit the floor. So she got pretty famous doing these Instagram live videos where she would interview, you know, mostly white women and kind of confront them and embarrass them. And it was really great. And then she got her own show. I couldn't believe people kept signing up for that. I know, right? I think everyone signs up for that thing. Well, she's not going to embarrass me. I'll be okay. I mean, that was brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. So she does these interviews on her show, but then she also does sketches like this stop being porn music video, which I just feel like I have not been able to get out of my head for the entire year. And it's her and the comedian Patty Harrison, who's also hilarious doing it together.

So that was just a clip of it, but I encourage everyone to go seek out the whole thing if you haven't seen it because the visuals are wonderful as well. Yeah, I thought Zway with Phoebe Bridgers on allyship was like when comedy can send up the ridiculousness of a subject but also make it show how important it is all at once. That's like the most brilliant comedy and that sketch was just so amazing on showing the nuances of what ally ship was. Okay, so you're a fan of ASMR. I'd love for you to read a couple statements, just, you know, ASMR. Okay. Don't mind the mic. It's in your face.

Oh, okay. I will do my own. I apologize for all. Here's my PIN number. Insert PIN number. No, you're supposed to say the number. 6, 6,66. Yeah, and I think they're actually friends because they post a lot of Instagram pictures together.

So I think they do get a lot of. along in real life, which is nice to know. You know it's real when it's on the grid. Yes. But then people also might know Zeeway because she guest starred on Succession this season. That's right. As a sort of version of herself,

a late night comic who invites Kendall Roy, Jeremy Strong's character on her show to confront him. This is a very minor spoiler for Succession that has a lot of spoilers. Is this a spoiler? No, that he's very excited about being on her show and he loves the idea.

but when he actually gets there, he can't quite bring himself to do it. So I guess he's the one person who realizes that it's not a good idea in the final moments before going on her show. But yeah, so it was really fun to see her pop up on Succession as well. She's just having a moment for sure. Which brings us to that, you know, comedy is not just what's on the late night shows. Some TV shows can be very funny. And I think we all thought that Secession was one of the funniest shows this year.

Am I right? Yeah, I mean, I certainly did. I think it's a, I think it was, it ended up being. both the best drama of the year and maybe one of the funniest shows of the year as well, which is quite a feat. Molly has particularly gotten annoyed with me when I've repeated Kendall's line

about tying your dick to a runaway train when I talk about the Republican Party. So I think I was told I had to cut that out of an episode at one point, huh? Good. I did want to talk to you about something, and fuck it, I'll just come out and say it. Fascists are kind of clear. but not really.

So is that like a problem, the thing? Seriously, me, I just... I don't have a lot of boundaries. St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Schumacher, I'll borrow from anyone. And, you know, if Franco or H or Travis Bickel had a good pitch, fuck it. I'm a man for all seasons. H.

You know, there was a very naughty boy named H. I'm a fully-fledged, small D. Democrat. at a well-regulated election is a transmission frequency for God's grace. Holy shit, you really are a Christian, aren't you? Well, no, no, no. My only thing is, like, who's the stakeholder, right? I've been tending, you know,

my little garden for like 100 years. And then 40 new guys show up in the back of a truck, playing their boombox, and it's put to a vote, and they decide to give my farm to them. I mean, so sorry? What happened? Maybe you have to put in,

Right? Before you get to take out. Yeah. Okay, well then, you know, who gets to, uh... Who gets to join? Well, people trust people who look like them. That's just a scientific fact. They will get more tax dollars to help them. Hmm. Now, you can integrate new elements, of course. But come on, man! Slowly! I mean, fuck! I like this country.

Yeah, let's just take a beat before... we fundamentally alter its composition? The only flaw I can think of in this season of secession was not having more of that character. Well, I have to think he's going to play a bigger role in the next season and season four. But that was Justin Kirk, who people might know from weeds and some other shows, as this sort of Tucker Carlson slash Josh Hawley character who comes in in this very political episode of Succession. And, yeah, that clip starts with my probably favorite line of the season, which was fascists are kind of cool, but not really.

And that's Kieran Culkin, who's so funny on the show. And that, I mean, that was a particularly darkly comic clip, I would say. But really, there was a lot in there. It's funny because so many people discussed how Roman Kieran Kulkin's character this year really was, like, one of the most bitingly funny characters we've seen with like a little bit of a different humor. angle than usual. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he also manages to make every scene funny, including, without spoiling anything, the most intense scene, I would say, of the season finale. He's making jokes throughout it, and it's still somehow so intense and so dark. Yeah, but I really, I really love

that episode and that scene where they were at this, you know, Republican cabal, basically deciding who the next president was going to be, and this is the guy who emerged. Yeah, it was amazing. So now we get to one of Molly's favorite TV shows. Curb Your Enthusiasm is back. How you've been feeling about the new season? I like it, but I'm just to sort of, I don't have any professional. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's good. Were there any episodes or moments that have stood out to you in the curb season, Molly?

I've just found it really. I'm trying to remember what? This is the season after Lante Larry and the Spite Store. I love Wanda Sykes. I love all the sort of the characters on it. I think everybody's pretty. great. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, the episode that has stood out so far, and there's still, I think, a few more of the season is this one where he befriends a Ku Klux Klanzman sort of by accident and then ends up having to get his, try to get his robe cleaned and then Woody Harrelson's in there as, you know, playing himself. And there's a whole thing about cream shaming, which I thought was pretty funny. And so, yeah, that was a really fun one. At the last season?

That's the most recent season, yeah. But is there going to be another season after this? Oh, is there going to be... You know, I think they never say, but they, you know, it's the kind of show that could go on forever, so I think certainly could. Yeah. You know what?

My friend's wife is a seamstress. You can't believe the stuff that she can sew. Yeah? She kind of owes me a favor. Still, it's not going to be an easy ask, but... I think I can get her to do it. Like a custom job. custom job.

You think she could get it done? She could get it done. She could get it done. She could do it. You will be the envy of every Klansman. No. You like that? They'll look at you and they'll go, hey, what?

Did you see Joe's rope? Look at Joe's rope. Where do I get one of those? You'll get invited to the Grand Wizard's house for dinner. That's my prediction. I'd never been to his house. If I could go to dinner, I'd say that comes out to be a pretty fair trade. Yeah.

Great. Great. awesome, man. Maybe you could do me a small favor. So we'd be remiss to not talk about who we lost this year. Matt, you particularly flagged Norm McDonnell. It was a huge, huge loss for comedy. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I think that really hit everyone really hard. And I think he is someone who had complicated politics, I would say, you know, maybe not unlike Chappelle sometimes, but was, a really just a force in the comedy world and I think really beloved by comedians especially for his comedy

and just everything that he that he brought to what he did and I think he was just such a unique voice so to lose him and it was really a shock because he didn't tell anybody that he was sick

besides maybe a couple really close friends so nobody knew that he was that he was on his way out and it was just really really sad yeah I mean And I think what's an interesting difference between him and Chappelle is it seems like when people disagreed with Norm, there was a little bit more of a respect towards his opinion because he was a little bit more detailed and nuanced with the things he would say people wouldn't like, I feel like. Yeah, I think he had that.

He had the ability to be funny really no matter what he was saying. He could make anything funny. But yeah, I just had, I had so much fun, you know, rewatching his old SNL weekend update clips, his old Conan appearances. And as sad as it was, it was an opportunity to go back and revisit some of his best moments at Roses, yeah, on late-night TV. So it was really just a lot of fun to remember him this year. Yeah, and particularly that weekend update, that was such a great era of that show with what he did there. Testimony during the final week provided some spell-binding moments. In a brilliant move during closing arguments, Simpson attorney Johnny Cochran, put on the knit cap,

prosecutors say O.J. War the night he committed the murders. Although OJ may have heard his case when he suddenly blurted out, hey, easy with that. That's my lucky stabbing hat. Okay, well, that brings us to the end of the clips we have. Matt, thank you so much for being here. And we hope you and the listeners have a happy holiday. Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Thanks, Matt. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast.

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