The Daily Beast Podcast - What Trump Aides Whisper About His Cabinet: Wolff

Episode Date: February 1, 2026

Michael Wolff joins Joanna Coles to unpack Melania’s high-profile movie premiere flop and Trump’s crumbling White House operations. As Minneapolis reels under paramilitary forces and DHS overreach, Wolff reveals how Trump’s aides point to the president’s “cabinet of morons” as the root of the administration's flailing incompetence as they scramble to keep him happy and dodge accountability. Meanwhile, the First Lady leverages her office to secure a $40 million documentary deal, sparking questions of corporate bribery. With resignations, lawsuits, and the looming midterms, Wolff and Coles map the power plays, personal agendas, and unraveling strategy behind the headlines. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every pivotal player you can argue in the White House is suboptimal. Or you might say another way. Well, these are people who wouldn't get jobs in any other cabinet. A moron. Any other cabinet. People within the White House have said to me here in the moronocracy. And that's what we're seeing here. Why did Minneapolis happen?

It happened because these are people who are morons. Michael. Joanna. So nice to have you back in the studio. We missed it on Tuesday because of the snow. Well, now it's Thursday. Now it's Thursday, which means... Oh, my God.

Yeah. It is a high point of the second Trump administration, second Trump term, the premiere at the Donald J. Trump Kennedy Center. Yep. We now swallow the word Kennedy. Yeah. The premiere of Melania the movie.

Melania the movie. Yes, and Melania has... has been out shilling to this movie. To fully set the scene, the premiere of Melania in the movie, as everything is cratering in Minneapolis, in which the people of Minneapolis, as we know, are being gunned down, and the administration is melting down over the fact that they're gunning down people. And Melania is melting down because it's overwhelming the publicity for her film. So to be fair to Melania, our first lady has pivoted.

and taken on board a unifying message to help promote her movie. She is, well, taking any opportunity to promote her movie. And so she's turned Minneapolis into a Melania promotional opportunity. Yeah, it's a scheme for her. Unify. I mean, Melania, who has been absent for the entirety of this year, the entirety of the campaign. Where's Melania being

always a pertinent question? Now is everywhere. She is everywhere because she has something to promote. So she was on the floor of the Stock Exchange, New York Stock Exchange yesterday. Well, actually, she was in the dais, ringing the bell to launch the movie. Yeah, and let's be clear.

To say she has something to promote is putting a good face on it. She has something to sell for her. herself. This is a personal money-making enterprise. So she is using the office office of the first lady. By the way, it's not really an office. And so when people, when I have to write the first lady, which I do often in the context of this lawsuit. Right, which I want to know the latest details. And somebody is always, always, some copy editor is always putting First Lady in caps. It should not be in caps because it's nothing.

Right. At any rate, she, but she is using this position, her relationship to the President of the United States. Now I use here the word relationship loosely to promote this money, personal money-making endeavor. And just to remind everyone, she has been paid $40 million for this documentary. By Amazon. By Amazon. It's not She has a 70% of the back end. So if this whatever money this movie makes, she'll get 70% of that. And then she gets 100% of the corporate sponsorships she sells for this movie. The corporate sponsorships are on the role, the credits at the end in which you will see the names of corporations.

they will pay $10 million for that privilege, of which she will get $10 million. And we know that this week... $10 million each. Right. So we know that this week, because it's opening in theaters worldwide, coming to an empty theater in the EU,

as I like to say. They've actually upped the number. Originally it was going to open in a thousand movie theaters in America, and they've now doubled that. Well, it went to, as they saw that this movie, the pre-booking numbers were very bad. So they went from 1,000 theaters to 1,000 theaters to 1,000 theaters to 1,000 theaters. Amazon has put up, I think the number is $38 million in advance promotion for this movie. This is all unheard of.

I mean, this is a documentary. Documentaries usually make, I mean, to spend $5 million on a documentary, which would put you in the top 1% of documentaries. And that's just to make, they've put $40 million up front to make this single documentary. And the promotion of this, you know, I mean, if you're lucky, you get a couple of million. extremely lucky a couple of million dollars in promotion, not $38 million. Well, because we know that they're not really doing this as an actual documentary. They're doing this as a huge suck-up to the president.

Yeah. Again, that puts a nice face on it. Well, this is Melania giving Ups an opportunity to see her be best. I just want to add. I got a thing from a film analyst who's who the film is, in the industry is expected to make $5 million this weekend. This opening weekend. And this analyst said, we've got the under on this massively.

In other words, the idea. So selling short in Melania. Selling short in Melania. And, of course, she's been out. She was at the New York Stock Exchange where the poor woman on the dais next to her because people weren't applauding enough, was caught by the cameras going like this, one of those people that comes on, you know, like a comedian that comes on, the warm-up man.

The fluffer. She was basically a fluffer. She was a fluffer. She was trying to get the crowd that were clearly nonplussed to applaud for Melania. But this gives me a little opportunity, I think, to break into my Melania impression. I've been, I can't wait. That's what I live for. Well, Sam B once told me that the way to do Melania effectively is to throw all the vowels at the front of your mouth.

I'm not sure I'm that good to understand it. But she did do an interview with Fox 5 where Dana Perino asked her a truly quite challenging question, deceptively challenging. I'll ask the question you give the answer. Okay, okay. I want to read it accurately, so I'm going to read it from the transcript. Can I ask a question? I've been dying to ask, Dana Perino says. I mean, Dana Perino, let's not even go there.

And let's remind people who Dana Perino was, because she was actually, wasn't she White House? press spokesman for George W. Bush? For a period. I don't think, as I recall, not for very long, but yes, yes. Okay. So we're just situating her. Which is always a job, which is, how do you get a job on Fox News? You are the spokesman for a Republican president or candidate. Okay. All right. Anyway, can I ask a question I've been dying to ask? You all might think this is kind of a weird question, but I've always been curious, Dana Perino says. Okay, what is your favorite time of the day? And it should be fair.

What is your favorite time of the day? And the funny thing is that Milania... What's your favorite time of the day? My favorite time of the day is doing the podcast with you. But actually what was so fascinating is Melania had to pause and don't think about this. And then she goes, favorite, it's morning, very quiet morning, quiet, get ready for the day. And you go, you know, have a coffee. And you start reading and organizing the day.

Dana says, I love mornings too. It's just, it's so good. It's so good. It's just, you know, who needs late night comedy shows when you've got Fox. And then interestingly, I think Melania is beginning to understand the power of story here. And as we're always saying, she is America's most famous immigrants. So why isn't she leaning into that story more? But she does talk about why she's made the documentary.

And can I just give you a little bit of why? I mean, she's picked up this story because every moron in Hollywood says story. Oh, we're storytellers. You know what we are? We're storytellers. So she too is a storyteller, Michael, although it's not necessarily the story that we really want to hear. But she does say... It's actually a story to avoid the story. Exactly, exactly.

And you're going to... That's called a cover-up. Well, we're going to get into your efforts to get to the actual story in a minute, because I know you have developments in it. But when she gets up, after the fluffer has done her thing of getting the people in the audience to applaud, however reluctantly, Malania says, in the near future, cultural influence will matter as much as economic power. Go on, go on. I'm trying.

Our ability to tell our stories and emotionally connect with audience is paramount. People long to be moved. We need stories to inspire dreams of our hope. Tales of redemption, sad stories, love stories, and funny stories. We want to feel human. As opposed to feeling like an animal. Well, and then she continues, My new film, Malania, provides window into important period for America

of 47 presidential inauguration. I mean, it's just, it's magical. I cannot wait to go and see this movie, which I know is going to be like a long Instagram. It's going to be like the Beckham's documentary, just a long Instagram. But it's sort of fascinating. And then, of course, the one thing she has been doing because she's furious about Minneapolis, overwhelming this, is she's now got in on the political message. So we've got her here saying, here we go.

This is the one I was looking for. And let's do some of the background here that one of the reasons that there appears to be a shift in the, in, in the White House messaging on Minneapolis. Right. Appears to be a shift that they've gone from these are terrorists to, well, maybe we overreacted, is that Melania is reaming out the president. Oh, interesting. Okay, because it's overwhelming her documentary, not because she goes about the people.

This is supposed to be, and has been designed in the White House, Amazon, the Amazon expenditure to be her weak. Right. Okay, so just final comment from Melania, who's weighing in politically here, getting her feet a little, her high-heeled shoes, and Manolo's getting a little damp.

So one of the Fox 5 hosts says to her, well, the country needs a bit of unifying. And she goes, yes, it does, but I think he's unifier, his unifier, not just here, United States, but around the world. He stopped many wars. Here in United States, it's a lot of opposition. And that's the problem.

So the people not agreeing with everything that he does, and you know they need to just come on the same page and see that he wants to make America only safer and better. So the problem is... Fantastic. We'll do it again. Okay. The problem is that people aren't agreeing with her husband. And if only they did, we would be unified.

If only, if only. Melania, if you're thinking of going to see the movie, you could also just read this book instead. This is Melania and Me by Stephanie Winston Wolkhoff, who worked briefly for Melania, having been her friend for 15 years, and it's the story of the rise and fall of their friendship. I mean, it is a story, a genuine story.

That is a story. That is real story that will move you. It's up. but mainly down. Mainly down. Mainly down. All right. So tell us about your progress with the first lady.

So the lawsuit. Once again, the first lady threatened to sue me because I've identified her as being a, linking her with Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein. Oh, Jeffrey Epstein. We went a whole episode last week without mentoring. Jeffrey Epstein, which was our bad. In other words, we are...

We've also been distracted. Right. This whole distraction, everything, Minneapolis, Greenland, all the distraction from Jeffrey Epstein, and we were distracted. We were distracted. It worked even for us, and we're Epstein obsessives. Yes.

I think it's so to say. So at any rate, we come back. This, I am, she threatened me for saying, for linking her to Jeffrey Epstein, a $1 billion lawsuit. I turned around and sued her in New York State because New York has specific laws against intimidating people for using perfectly allowable speech. And anyway, you're in New York.

We have laws against that. We have laws against that. Anti-SLAPPs. Yes. Yeah. So that's where, so that's what we've, We sued her in New York State Court. They have moved, they have asked to move this to federal court.

It is now in federal court. The federal court will decide whether to put this back into New York State Court, whether to dismiss the lawsuit, or whether, as they are also asking, if they do not dismiss the lawsuit, to move it to Florida, which is a much preferred venue for this kind of lawsuit. Now, doesn't this depend on where the First Lady lives? So she's saying she lives in Florida at Mara Lago. Is that her argument? She's saying three things.

It should be dismissed because she has not been served properly. Now, this is interesting because it is almost impossible, as you might imagine, to serve, hit the First Lady with papers. But why can't you just serve her lawyers? Don't her lawyers have to accept it? Yes, we've done that. Her lawyers don't have to accept. They just refuse service. We have gone to, well, obviously the White House, we can't get into the White House to serve the First Lady, not to mention that the First Lady is seldom at the White House.

Right. But she is most often at Trump Tower, where we have tried to serve her and where the security people there have confirmed, yes, she lives there. No, we will not accept service. So there is no way to, in fact, serve the First Lady. We have gone into state court and asked that. them to offer an all either to deem her serve because we may we have made every effort right in good faith you have tried to serve yes or to offer an alternative route of service they can order her lawyer for instance to accept service but because they've moved this to federal court that stays that

process therefore they are now in federal court saying this should be thrown out because you haven't served us. So in other words, in other words, this should be dismissed because you haven't served us, but there is no way to serve us. Therefore, it should be dismissed. So that's their, that's their first argument. Then their second argument is that this is just me seeking publicity, which is an interesting kind of thing, because basically that's what they said in the first place. we're going to, I mean, it's essentially saying you can't talk about the first lady. Right. And then the other thing is that they said, well, of course he's seeking publicity.

He's raised $800,000 to fund this lawsuit through a go-fund-me page. So in other words, what they're saying is the very fact that you have raised enough money to fight this lawsuit means it should be thrown out. also you only raise the money after you decided to sue the first lady because she decided to sue you for a billion dollars which is what they do they have these threatening lawsuits they try and intimidate everybody it works all the time also they have unlimited resources and and and now they're they're pissed because i somehow have come by by fairly robust resources and also i think it's fair to point out that i think you told me this, and I might be wrong, that over 20,000 people have contributed on GoFundMe. These are a huge, huge number of people supporting me. Yes, and outpouring. All small donors.

And then their third argument is that she lives in Florida, although she spends most of her time in New York. So what that means is that we will now move for, and we are moving for discovery on that and in which we will ask for all of the relevant documents, including the pre-up. Oh, including the pre-nup. Oh, my goodness. So, yes, everybody should go and see the movie, although I know that that's going to incite lots of comments saying, no, we're never going to give this woman money. So don't go and see the movie, but it's interesting to see how she wants to be perceived as this sort of glamorous model and the reality of what you're actually trying to do.

And I should point out, especially for you, that in their papers, they reference this podcast. Oh, they do. So they are listeners. Oh, they're listening. Melania, good luck with the movie tonight. good luck with Premier. I wonder if Jeff Bezos will be coming back from Paris Couture

where he's been all week with his new wife. I wonder if they'll come back for the Premier. Do you think they will? I bet they do, actually. Well, I think it's a question of what they're going to get out of it.

Well, you made the point they've already got out of it what they wanted, but I wonder if the president has asked Jeff Bezos to come back. I'm dying to know. Well, that would be a part of the transaction. And I'm sure that he's, that he's, I'm sure that there would be a transaction. Yes, I'll come back if, yes. Or the president saying, if you come back, I'll. Well, Jeff Bezos may want to

stay out of the way because Amazon's just announced they're letting 14,000 people go. So he may not want to be on the red carpet at the Trump Kennedy Center. Called on the carpet. Called on the carpet. called on the cafe. Yeah, no, and also he's getting, I mean, this is coming out. He is spending this $38 million. He's offered this to the Trump administration. So I'm not sure I'd want to be the face of that. Well, and I was sorry to see that the new head of programs at the Donald J. Trump Kennedy Center

has already resigned within two weeks of taking up the job. Renee Fleming said this week that she was no longer going to appear there. Philip Glass said he no longer wanted to be associated with the Kennedy Center. So it's not... So the Donald J. Trump Kennedy Center. Let's do it. Donald J. This is how they do it in the White House.

They say the Donald J. Trump Center. You know, and again, there are many people in the White House wholly aware of the absurdity of this. Right, right. Well, and the ticket sales are now off. He claims he only took it over because the ticket sales weren't doing well. It had always had to be subsidized. And now, of course, the ticket sales are terrible. So the entire Donald J. Trump Center is in a state of collapse.

Right, which is tragic, absolutely tragic. But nevertheless, it will be hosting the Melania, the movie premiere tonight. Yes. You know, I was at a dinner party last night, and there was somewhat of a, of an argument about my feeling about is that there will Donald Trump will not let another Republican be the president of the United States. Right. Because that would wholly upstage him.

At the appropriate time, he will undermine whoever the Republican nominee is so that there'll be a Democratic president, and he'll return to Mar-a-Lago still as the president in exile, or he'll characterize the Democrat as the pretender president and he's the real president. But this person at dinner last night argued no, no, no, because he'll need a Republican to keep his name on everything that he's put his name on, that a Democrat would immediately return the Kennedy Center to the Kennedy Center. Oh, that's interesting. What did you make of that? Is that plausible?

I mean, a Republican might well take his name off things anyway. That's what I said. Anybody will take his name off of this. Right. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So.

Any digression. Okay. Degression. All right. Let's get to the meat and potatoes of this week, which is the blame game that's going on in the White House after the chaos and the catastrophe of many hours. Yeah. And let's go that that the chaos and the catastrophe there still goes on. I mean, they have made some cosmetic changes getting rid of Bovino, Gregory Bovino.

Speaking of cosmetics. Oh, my God, how could they have ever put that guy in there in the first place? Well, and also sort of ridiculous striding around in his kind of coat, and then his awful social media account. I mean, this is also about them all performing in front of each other on social media. And interestingly, the white house closes down. Audience of one. Audience of one. So that they've sent in Homan, who is more faceless, although he'll probably start to perform at this point.

And then they've made noises about this and that, but still, all of those ice agents are still in the streets of Minneapolis, threatening people and deporting people. You have plane loads of deportees leaving Minneapolis. Well, and also turning up at people's houses with old military supplies that police departments and I guess ICE have bought from the military that are sort of decommissioned from the military. I mean, the militarization of these organizations is absurd, frightening. And you can see people just looking sort of completely horrified and nonplussed as sort of five or seven guys gather outside their door with these old guys.

guns and, you know, night sites. Yeah, no, they're not really old guns either. I mean, that's not, I mean, that's not, I mean, they're 1850s guns, but they're decommissioned from the military. Yes, I mean, these are, these are military-grade weapons. Exactly. Okay. But the other thing, the thing in the language, I think, to use here is that Minneapolis is now

an occupied city. I mean, it happens to be occupied by. by other Americans, but even that, that's kind of cleaved. I mean, there are the people of Minneapolis and they are in now, now being occupied by this outside, this outside paramilitary force. Masked palamilitary force, too. I mean, the use of masks on streets in America is just awful. No, and I actually, I would like to know how that came about. Obviously, it somehow relates back to COVID when when the Trump people were, you might recall, were against masks. Right. But it seems to at what point did we decide that a police force could be anonymous? Well, it's also strange because

they're not issues standard masks. They have to supply their own masks. So their masks are sort of a haphazard and ridiculous. They're kind of pulling up their T-shirts. Right, which is what I do when it's cold outside. I don't want anybody to think I'm with ice. I'm not. But also, like, some of them have got camouflage scarves.

Some of them have got, you know, what look like balaclavas for the cold. I mean, it's so amateur as well. And it's just men out of control. largely men, I hate to say, out of control. Yeah, no. I mean, fundamentally what you have here is a paramilitary force of sub-trained people. Right, right. Excited by power and the opportunity to use violence against other people.

And also having to enforce quotas. Right. I mean, that's in the end, and that's the Stephen Miller thing. Quotas, we have to do this. We have to have a success measure. What is the success measure? These are the numbers. And Stephen Miller is always, he's obsessed with numbers.

You know, I mean, back to this kind of, you know, spectrum-y thing. What are the numbers? He's always calling people in the White House make fun of him for this. They say, what are the numbers? And that you know he's talking about. They're talking about Stephen Miller. So what are the numbers? Like, I need to know the numbers.

Have you made the numbers? There's a whole joke about how many times. He can use the word numbers. Well, sadly, his wife's podcast is not doing the numbers yet. So, Stephen, shout out to your wife's podcast. Maybe you can help her there. Michael, let's just take a quick break for some ads. And Joanna, we are back.

Where are we inside Trump's head? Christy Noem and Corey Landowski have thrown Stephen Miller under the bus. Christine Ome pulled a Nuremberg and said, I was just following orders, just doing what Stephen Miller. Just the numbers. I just had to make the number. Yeah. Stephen Miller has thrown her under the bus. And they in turn have thrown him under the bus, saying they are just doing, you know, have just had to enforce his policy. Right. So it's a question. I mean, now, I mean, within the White House now, it is completely a blame game. I mean, this is a hot potato. And the only person who seems to have avoided this positioned herself properly is Susie Wiles. It is everybody else.

Everybody else is to blame. And she hates Stephen Miller. She hates Stephen Miller. She hates Christenheim. She hates everybody. Oh, my God. And understand, you know, I mean, again, there is everybody, everybody, every pivotal player in this story, every pivotal player you can argue in the White House is suboptimal. Or you might say another way.

get jobs in any other cabinet. A moron. Any other cabinet. Right. The moronocracy. The moronocracy. The moronocracy. The moronocracy is back.

And people within the White House have said to me, this is not my term, they've said here in the moronocracy. And that's what we're seeing here. We're seeing people who, why did Minneapolis happen? It happened because these are people who are. morons, you know, and they're all charged with what they have to do is keep the President of the United States happy. How do you keep the President of the United States happy? He wants a show. He wants he wants a, he wants force. He wants to see things. Remember, they started out this. They

started the process, the social media process of filming these arrests. Right. I'm putting them out with kind of rap music as if they were TikTok videos for entertainment. And partly because that amused the president. Now, this has turned against them, and now people in the street and ordinary citizens, including the ones that they're gunning down, are using their iPhones and filming these things and putting these videos out on social media. But this all began with this as a, as a, as a, a piece of performance. Right. And they're now moving to Maine, Portland, Maine, having been

sent away from, by a judge from Portland, Oregon, they're now showing up in Portland, Maine, where Susan Collins is suddenly roused to take a stand, which is not common for Susan Collins. We know she likes to sit on the fence. She lives in a permanent wedge, Susan Collins, just sitting on the fence. But this Portland, Portland, Portland. Portland. Portland. Portland thing is interesting. Does he know? No, of course not. Of course not.

Except that he's probably like Susan Collins. Where is she? Anyway, she's up there making a fuss saying that she has had conversations with Christename, and she is reassured that the Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security is not going to invade Maine in the same way that they invaded Minneapolis. So take that for what it's worth, Susan Collins' word. Jesus. Right.

That's where we are right now. Well, let's go too. So we have the, I'm just following the Trump pattern. We have, we have this horrific problem. I mean, a problem in which you might say, and of course we have said this before, we are at a tipping point in this, in this administration, that it has gone so grievously wrong that they can't recover from this, that this is we are in again, we have begun. the election, the midterm election year. And they're going to pay for this, and they may pay for this in really dramatic ways, not only the losing Congress. They could possibly, on the basis of this kind of behavior, lose the Senate. So what has to happen here? Distraction. Distraction. And what might that be? There's somewhere in the world, there is an armada. Oh, I see what you're getting at. This armada has moved into firing range in Iran.

Okay, you say Iran. What do you say Iran? I say Iran. Okay, I say Iran. Iran. But either way. I mean, first of all, what's happened to those poor protesters that we promised help is on the way? No, no.

No, I mean, again, that thing, I mean, Donald Trump encouraged this, this massive protest movement in Iran. I mean, he basically said, you know, we will come to your aid. Right. He literally said help is on the way. Yes. We will not let you be killed. Now, what happened there was that every, I mean, there were over, I think the numbers, the numbers go up to maybe 6,000 people at this point were shot, literally just shot

down by the mullahs. And where was Donald Trump? Where was Donald Trump? nowhere. Well, Donald Trump was at Mar-a-Lago having his furry party. Did you see that where he had a party to raise money for the ASPCA and people turned up in cat costumes? Oh my God.

I didn't. I mean, that's what he was doing. I don't have to know this. He was utterly distracted at Mar-a-Lago where he goes for the weekends. But the Armada is there, and it looks quite possible that he will begin to bomb a Again, this is probably the same targets that we bombed the last time. And with some rationale, they apparently, the Iranians are apparently rebuilding their nuclear facilities that we bombed during the summer.

But again, I think we can very clearly see what is the reason for doing this, what will happen. He needs this distraction. This is a wag the dog moment. And it's an important wag the dog. moment. Yep. I mean, what does he do? How does he get beyond Minneapolis?

But having said that, it is also worth coming back to the, that Minneapolis as bad as it is, Greenland as ridiculous as it was, Iran as dangerous as it might be, distracts from. Epstein, Epstein. We've got more files coming up. We've got more files coming out. And as far as we know, we've still only got 1% of the files. I still don't understand how people are going through them and sifting through them. And we've got the Clinton still avoiding turning up in front of the oversight committee,

which of course is a political sideshow. But nonetheless, why wouldn't they just show up, get it done with, and just say, actually, the person you want here is Donald Trump. Why haven't you called him? If I were there, I would be using that as an opportunity. Yeah, no, I'm not, and you have certain Democrats that are trying to force the Clintons to show up and to testify. And it is true. Why wouldn't they?

Well, because I'm sure they don't want to go into the fact that Bill took as many flights from Jeffrey Epstein as he did. Because it doesn't look great, even if they stopped the relationship in the early. 2000. No, you know, and one of the things, one of the difficult things is that you cannot say, nobody can really say the truth. And the truth is, why did you spend time with Jeffrey Epstein? And even beyond the implication is you spent time with Jeffrey Epstein because he got you girls. And even if you deny that, even if that's not true, and even if you deny it, you can't say the true thing, which I think is certainly true for Bill Clinton, which is I really liked him. It was, you know, he was really, I really felt a bond with him. Obviously, you cannot

say that, and that's also true for Donald Trump. Donald Trump, the biggest bond anyone in political life or in any aspect of life had with Jeffrey Epstein was Donald Trump. Was Donald Trump? and their near 15-year friendship. Well, Gillesne Maxwell has been called in front of the Oversight Committee, so we'll have her evidence. And of course, she was involved with the Clinton Global Initiative when it started, and I think was very helpful in creating a bond between Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein for the use of his plane, which, as we know, is always a useful thing

when someone puts a plane at your disposal and you're traveling to Africa to do all sorts of good things which the Clinton Global Initiative has done. Nevertheless, it was Jeffrey Epstein's plane. You know, one of the things that I think that we should give some thought to is what are the worst things that could come out in these Epstein files? Do you mean about Donald Trump?

About Donald Trump, about anyone, but specifically, I think, I think, I mean, the high-stakes person here, let's face it, is not Bill Clinton, it's Donald Trump. I don't know what the worst things are. Let's not say them out loud. Well, I have a new idea of what they're trying to avoid here. All right, go on then.

I think one of the potentially really sensitive issues is the prosecution, the arrest and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein in 2019. Why did that happen? who ordered it. And there are, there's a lot of exposure here. There's exposure just on the part of the Justice Department who may have been acting independently from the White House because they wanted, they wanted dirt on Donald Trump. But it also may be that it was Donald Trump who wanted to avoid Jeffrey Epstein spreading dirt on Donald Trump. And I think that this That whole area forms in, first thing, that whole area is going to be extremely well documented within these files.

And I'm not sure that they can, I'm not sure that anybody comes out looking clean there. And this is the Southern District of New York that was taking. Is that why he was arrested because of the case the Southern District was bringing? Yes. The Southern District arrested Jeffrey Epstein in 2019. Yes. So I mean, I think we should come back to that. Yeah, totally interesting.

I'm trying to work through that area because I think it is a critical point of vulnerability. And both sides were using each other. And Jeffrey Epstein didn't think he was going to get arrested, obviously. Otherwise, he wouldn't have flown into New Jersey when he didn't. did. But he didn't see this coming, right? He had no idea. All the lawyers that he hired. No idea that this was coming. Literally no idea. For every single lawyer that he hired, none of them knew this was coming. Right. And many of, and a number of the lawyers that he hired, he hired because they had, they were, they were noted for their intelligence that they had about what was going on

within the Justice Department. So it would be interesting to know who the key people, were at the Justice Department who kept this clearly buttoned down so that nobody figured out what was going on. The key person or, I mean, one of the key people was James Comey's daughter. Morin. Yes, who led the case in the Southern District and who has since been fired by Donald Trump. So she led the prosecution against Jeffrey Epstein. She did. And then got fired.

She did, absolutely. Well, is the assumption that she knew a lot about Jeffrey Epstein then? Must be. They don't want her any. Well, I don't know what the assumption is. I mean, we just know the facts. She was fired. And actually, she is suing.

Last time I look, I think this is an ongoing going lawsuit. Yes. And obviously, her father has been, or Trump has attempted to prosecute her father. With your friend, Lindsay, how? But my friend Lindsay Halligan, yes. Oh, my goodness, what complicated webs we all weave. And Michael, let's just take a quick break for some advertisements. And here we are still in Donald Trump's head.

Let's go after Chuck Schumer a minute. Okay, and the shutdown. Is there going to be a shutdown? It looks like they might avoid a shutdown. No, Chuck Schumer is it going to do anything? Apparently, I don't know why Chuck Schumer. I mean, again and again and again, he has avoided using this option. Well, they did have a shutdown.

They did have a shutdown. They just shut the shutdown down. He shut the shutdown down. So, but in this instance, the issue is ICE. I mean, a group of Democrats, a large group of Democrats have basically said, we're not going to fund ICE. We don't want to fund a fund these. We want the Department of Homeland Security cleaved off.

No, no. That's, that's, that's, that's Schumer's way of not of avoiding a shutdown. So there, the Democrats are saying, no, we're going to shut down the government if you continue to fund ICE. We're not going to give you money because that will fund ICE. Chuck Schumer is saying, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. We can work this out. We'll continue to fund the government, and we will put the ICE question off to the side,

and we will essentially accept the administration's promise to be able to work something out. Yeah, maybe the administration will agree that ICE agents shouldn't wear masks anymore. I mean, maybe, maybe. We don't know. But the instrument which would force, which would give the Democrats leverage is to shut down the government. Right.

Okay. And what I've found fascinating, so on my other podcast, the Daily Beast podcast, I've been interviewing a series of new young hopefuls in the Democratic Party. Do you do anything else besides? No, I'm just constantly talking as I think are you. Because you do lots of other podcasts, too, just not as good as this one. But I've given them up. Good, good, as you should, as you should. But what's interesting is this new generation of democratic hopefuls.

So Graham Platner in Maine who's running against the Democratic-approved candidate of Janet Mills, who's currently governor, but will be 78 if she gets into the Senate, which just feels at this point too old. I mean she would be 84. Right, when she finishes her term. And she's running against, she would be running against Susan Collins, our friend, if she gets chosen.

How old is Susan Collins? Susan Collins is mid-70s. But Graham Platner is 41, and just like, you know what, let me have at it, we need a new generation. He's the oyster guy. He's the oyster fisherman, oyster and lobster fisherman.

Did you ask him if he could shuck? I did. He can, and he says just, just swallow it down, chew it and then swallow it. No cocktail sauce. No cocktail sauce. You don't chew an oyster. Well, he said you chew an oyster.

Suck. Well, he said you chew an oyster because you want the brine flavor. Although he said he could only speak for the oysters that he catches up off the coast of Maine. Chewy oysters. It could be chewy oysters. It could be chewy oysters. Not everywhere else. Whatever.

And then James Tala Rica, who I interviewed earlier this week. There's a competition in my house between who can. Shuck. Well, how many people in your, you've, the only people in your house, in Victoria Shucks really well. I can't shuck, yeah. I think I once tried and cut my hands, so I'm never going to do that again. I think you need the right knife and the wrist action, right? Yeah, and a big glove. Oh, you need a glove? I I don't know you need a glove. I mean, unless you're maybe Graham Platner, he probably doesn't need a glove. I think Graham Platner could probably do it on his eyelid, actually. But James Talaico, who is in the state senate in Texas and is running in the Democratic primary against Congresswoman

Jasmine Crockett, who we also interviewed, and I urge you to watch both of them because they're both really impressive candidates. James Talrico just said, I'm not sure, actually, but James said the first thing he would do is try and get in there and, you know, change leadership. And Shuck and learned how to Shuck an oyster. No, that's not what he said. He lives in Texas. He's a man of the Lord. He's finishing seminary, actually. He's an interesting character. Anyway, There's a lot of hope and energy around both of them. The Democrats are always, if we can only get somebody who goes to church, oh my God. That would change everything.

It would change everything. Because Democrats don't go to church. Do they not go to church? Do they go to the gym? No, no. The truth is nobody goes to church. Nobody goes to church. Well, actually, that's not true.

Church attendance is on the rise, and I think it's because of AI. I think that people are looking for some kind of spiritual guidance again, because we're going to be taken over by robot. You saw Elon Musk dropping two of his cars in favor of making more robots. Oh, I thought you said Elon was going to church. Well, Elon's definitely not going to church. He's going to Mars, actually. Elon is not going to church. Anyway, he's dropping his S car.

I had an S very briefly, and it didn't work. It was a rogue car. And when I eventually got through to their head of sales for the Northeast and Express, he said, well, when did you get it? And I said November 21 was when I was when I. got it. And he said, oh, yeah, yeah, they weren't any good. That lot weren't any good. And where is that car now? Unhelpful. Well, I gave it back. I gave it back early because I didn't like the fact that the doors kept springing open and it would send me a text saying your back door is

open. And I'd be like, but the car's in the garage, that makes no sense. And we have an EV. Do you have an EV? You can't drive. So you, no. Right. What is your EV? I don't know. Okay. It's, it's not a Tesla. Ionic. Is it an, or is it? Or is it? Is it? No, the Korean. A Kia. Kia. Yes.

Yes. No. I like the Rivian. We have the thing. You just plug it in. It's, it's, we don't go to the gasoline station anymore. I know. That is very good.

That is good. Of course, we can't go very far, but we don't go very far. Well, you drive in and out of the city. No, no. Take the bus. You take the bus. Well, I will say, for the first few months I had the Tesla, I really enjoyed. It was fun to drive very, very fast.

It was very prestigious then to have a, but have a high status to have a Tesla. Now it's very low status. Anyway, I got rid of it. So, well, that's what I can tell you. 18 months in I got rid of it. Because, A, it didn't work properly. And B, I couldn't stand the fact that Elon Musk had founded the company.

So there we go. So you got rid of it after the Elon, the Elon divide. No, I got rid of it. I mean, remember Elon was very popular. It remained popular. Was it even a kind of a liberal hero? Well, I got rid of it way before Doge, but he was beginning to sound like a crazy person. No, no, when, you know, that happened.

I mean, kind of a fascinating line in the sand. You know, he was a good guy and then he bought Twitter and then everybody said, my God, he's crazy. Yeah, it was sort of around the time he bought Twitter that I got rid of it, I think. But I got rid of it because it didn't work. And it was compounded by the fact he wouldn't shut up. And I was like, fix your cars, just fix your cars. Nobody is buying a test. mutual friend of ours who had a Tesla when I was complaining to him about it, said he'd once

been locked out and he'd had to crawl in through the back door. Only the hatchback would work and he had to crawl in through the back of it to get into the driver's seat. Anyway, it's coming off production. They're no longer making them. All right. Let's we were on the verge of finishing this podcast, but I just want to say flag one thing, which I think is interesting. this kind of bubbling up boycott of the U.S. World Cup, which I think is really interesting and really threatening to the President of the United States who has made this, you know, it's a sports thing. And, you know, and remember when Donald Trump started, owned the football team, the soccer team in New York, No.

Really? Yeah, I don't remember that. Anyway, no. That might have been before my time. It might have been. It was not before my time. Okay, well, you remember it. Little is before my time now.

But who would want to come as a fan if you are from South America or you're from an African country and you look like someone who might trigger ice? Well, no. And also, I mean, the parallel is when. the world boycotted the Russian Olympics. Right. And it sends a similar message. I mean, and it puts the United States in a similar position vis-a-vis the rest of the world. We are the bad guys.

What do you think Donald Trump would do if they said that? He would just double down, wouldn't he, and say, well, we don't want these people here? Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. But nevertheless, it's one of those things. It's one of this. We are seeing, and, you know, God. knows I've said this before, but the beginnings of so much pushback against Donald Trump,

of so much potentially holding Donald Trump to account for all of this, that maybe it's, it is the inflection point, except for the armada coming into now pointing their guns at Iran. Yeah, well, we'll be back on Saturday to talk more about it and see what's happened between now and then to see how many people turned up at the Donald J. Trump Center for the opening of Melania tonight. And we may have a sense of how many advanced tickets have been sold. And I think maybe you could conduct an entire show in Melania's voice. Well, I would very much like that.

I would very much like that. If you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to leave us a comment. Meethinks, Betsy O'Farrell, Mills and Linz, Chelby, Max Cupid, David Shari, Thomas Moore, Maria Voltaine, D. Kugirwatz, Sien Lund, okay. John H. Overracher, Deb K. Ostronder, Sandra Clark, travels with Carl, Andrew Beaver, Cappanator, Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel Doglover, M. Griner, D. Stone, Fulvia Orlando, Herbie, Andrew Mellor, Tatnell, Val Love Francesco, Will Hutchinson, Andrea Hodel, Bocock, D.C., Sharon Chipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and Heidi Riley. Thank you all.

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