The Daily Beast Podcast - What Trump's Tacky WH McMansion Plans Reveal: Lemon

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Don Lemon joins Joanna Coles to assess how Donald Trump’s hasty East Wing tear-down, building a tacky McMansion-style ballroom while the country stalls, mixing supposed opulence with power, and blurring public duty with private ego. Lemon, a veteran reporter and anchor, brings his sharp and uncompromising voice to the conversation. Together with Coles, he examines Trump’s architecture of excess —the corporations and their leaders acting as his handmaidens —and asks: when the symbol of American democracy becomes a personal trophy house, what does that mean for the rest of us, and how long can the facade hold? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

But actually, he's right that we need a new ballroom. Maybe we do need a new ballroom. But it's not for him to decide. It's for the American people to decide. It's for the Congress who holds the purse strings to decide. Right. And it's for the historic commission to decide. The White House is a federal building.

It's not Donald Trump's house. So if you want to do something to a federal building, you have to get approval for it. And it has to go through the process. He hasn't done any of that. He's just torn down and bulldoze the White House. I don't think everything has to be a McMansion. He's turning the White House into a McMansion. He's turning the White House into a mansion.

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Today I'm going to be discussing, well, kind of everything with Don Lemon. What isn't there to discuss? The entire demolition of the east wing of the White House in record time with no congressional approval. It's just an astonishing development. Then there are the little boats bobbing around initially the Caribbean and now the Pacific that are being shot on the suspicion that they might be carrying drugs.

There is the government shutdown. There are TSA workers not being paid. Let's waste no time. There is so much going on. Who better to discuss it with than Don Lemon of Don Lemon Live? Don, let's get into it. Don Lemon, we are surrounded by snacks. I know.

Because we're just comfort eating our way through this, right? Because, yes. And because, honestly, I rarely leave a camera. camera and computer. I know. I can't believe we enticed you out. We coaxed you out like pucks a tawny from your cave, or actually your beautiful drawing room where you do your podcast from. But we're very glad to have you here. And you're either in your recording studio. Yeah, I'm going to have one of those too. Or, no, or your man on the street with your huge microphone. It's not that huge. It's huge. It's huge. It's huge. It's huge. So the other thing is we must

eat chocolate while we can because the price of chocolate is going up so much that they're putting less chocolate in things and they're doing a lot of vanilla chocolate that doesn't need cacao wings. It's cheaper. Yeah, much cheaper because the price of cacao has gone up so much and the price of

coffee is wildly wildly gone up. Well that's sad. I'm not a huge chocolate person, but certain candy bars I will eat. These are all I love. I love all of these. I haven't had a butter finger since I was a kid. And there's more butter and less finger perhaps, or they're adding more peanuts to make it less chocolate eat. Anyway, we are

comfort eating because how else are we supposed to get through what is an onslaught of news? I almost don't know where to begin, except I would quite like to begin with the $230 million that Trump has picked, I think, out of the ether, which is money that he believes he needs as compensation for the Democrats. trying to prosecute him. Yeah. In the four years when he was in the wilderness out of office. No, it's all retribution.

But, I mean, honestly, I think he wants that money to pay for the ballroom. That's why I think he wants the money. But regardless is... But don't you think he's getting the money for the ballroom from companies? And he wants the money. He's pretending he wants it for the ballroom. But I think he wants it for himself. Well, I wouldn't be surprised.

But, I mean, the companies are... I'm shocked that these companies are given them money. Okay. Let's just run through the companies we know. Apple, Google, Meta, Palantir. Concast. Booz Allen.

But so far they're giving like 5, 10 million that we know about. Those are the folks that we know about. I think they're giving a bit more than that. I was hearing in the 20s. 20s each. That's a lot of dough. It's not a lot of dope if what you're paying for is access to the president

and his cabinet with your ideas. That's what's happening. Right. It's a, pay to play. Yeah. How much would you pay? Do you think you could carry some favor? No, I couldn't.

I'm not built that way. I couldn't do that because I actually. believe in the U.S. Constitution. I believe in having morals. That old thing. U.S. Constitution. I believe in being ethical. And I don't want to pay someone, you know, I may go out to dinner with you and smooths you a little bit and whatever, but I'm not going to give you millions of dollars. It's just not, we shouldn't do those things in America. It's embarrassing to me. But those people are not complaining because they are in the White House or actually in the White House. Well, and they're having dinner with him. They're having dinner with him at Windsor Castle. and they're asking.

I mean, one interesting thing I thought this week was Mark Zuckerberg saying, please don't bring the National Guard to San Francisco. We don't need it. He did it. He agreed to do it. Yeah. And Donald Trump says he's not going to do it. So, I mean...

So, pay to play. So, I mean, look, if you have... I can understand if you have more money than God, Mark Zuckerberg and probably all the people who are giving him money, they can never spend the money that they have in a lifetime or two lifetimes or multiple lifetimes. So what is it to them?

to give $20 million. It's not made it to us like $20. And I don't think they're giving it from their personal, right? This is a company payment, which is probably written down as some kind of lobbying or, yeah. In fact, we should find out of the pile. I mean, it's all out of the pile of money that they're making from their businesses and they're pouring the money that they're making from their businesses and they're

putting it into these other things. So it's still their money that they're giving. So it's not coming directly from maybe their personal bank accounts. Right. No, it's the company's money. and I'm sure they argue that it's to have good business relationships with, which is essential, right? And we know that Trump can be vindictive. And if you don't help him, he'll come after you.

Well, there's always a way to rationalize it, right? Yeah, always a way to rationalize it. All right. So $230 million. Do you think he's actually under-asking? And if you were him, you would, or if you were advising him, you would say, why stop a $230 million? Yeah. I mean, if you're going to go for something ridiculous and I would say, yes, I just, I can't believe.

that he's doing it. I should, I mean, it shouldn't be surprising to me, but I can't believe that he has the gall to do what he's doing now. I mean, he was prosecuted and investigated for legitimate reasons. Right. Can you remind us what they were? I can barely remember in the thug of all these. So it's all sort of blended together. It's like a soup of things. There's so much of it that we don't really know, like, wait, is this for the Letitia James thing? Or is it for the Southern District of New York. Like, which one is it? Right.

Right. And so there's so many of them. And so I think that trying to pin him down for one thing, you know, when there's a whole cavalcade of charges in unethical and unlawful behavior that he has been found guilty of, or should be found guilty of, and would possibly be in prison now if he were not president of the United States. Well, that's clearly what he's sort of running from, right? fear that he would be in prison. And perhaps he will after.

Right, if we ever get to an after. I mean, Steve Bannon, again, claiming that Donald Trump is going to run in 28 and we'll get elected in 28. Yeah. Ridiculous. But again, just creating or flooding the zone. I don't think that that will ever pass anything, whether I don't think it'll pass the Congress or the Senate or I don't think you'd have to have some sort of amendment.

I'm not exactly sure what one would have to do, but pardon me for my saying. It's worth it, totally worth it. I don't think that, I don't think that'll get past. But I think he's going to try to stay there. Maybe figure something out where he becomes vice president or something or he'll do something bizarre, or he'll have someone become president, but basically he will be the president. And this person will just be sort of the figurehead. Well, perhaps a bit like Putin.

What Putin did that he put in his own person after he'd been president. And then he came back, Medvedev. Medvedev. So he put Medvedev in. And then he came back. Surprise. I'm back. And now I'm never leaving.

Yeah. But he's never leaving. I mean, why do you think he's putting that giant monstrosity on the White House? If you think you're leaving, you think he's doing that? He doesn't think he's leaving. That's what he's doing it. He thinks it's his house. He does think it's his house and it's not big enough and it's not grand enough and he needs tomorrow lago it. It's really alarming. And the weird thing is how much of it does go back to that White House correspondence dinner. You were there.

With Obama. With Obama where Obama is making fun of Donald Trump in so many ways, not least the idea that Donald Trump would add a Trump, a Trump, a deal. addition to the White House. Yeah. And here we are all these years later. And here we are. I think Donald Trump decided to run for president long before then. I don't think that was the moment that provoked it. But it is astonishing how often we come back to that moment as it being emblematic of things that clearly triggered Donald Trump.

Well, it's just, I mean, that was the first, that was a look on his face, right? There was a visual of it. And so, and of his. And of everybody laughing at him. Everyone laugh. He hates people to laugh at him. Yeah, well, I don't like people laughing at me. I don't care.

It doesn't matter to me. I don't love people laughing at me. I'd like them to laugh with me. It doesn't matter. But, I mean, have you seen that thing? Of course I've seen it. I don't know. Have you ever been to Mar-a-Lago?

No, I've been to the White House lots of times. Yeah. I didn't mean to sound that. That sounded showy offy. I didn't mean it like that, but I haven't been to Mar-a-Lago. I've driven around the outside of it because I was fascinated, but I've not been inside. Have you been inside? And I don't want to go in, but I wonder if it is as tacky as the Oval Office.

Because it was what? Was it Marjorie Meriwether Post's home or something like that? Who had very good taste. But if they screwed that up and turned it into, you know, this gold-plated or whatever monstrosity like they did the Oval Office. Have you seen the Oval Office? It's embarrassing. No, no. But do you think some of the, because there's no question that the White House probably did need a bigger entertaining space.

you've been to the parties they have in those big tents. And you're like, why are we in a tent? This is the White House. And also it can't be very secure, the tent. I feel like you should be inside a building with bulletproof windows. But I was wondering to myself, in England, this might be a class thing, where we are deriding Trump's taste. But actually, he's right that we need a new ballroom. Maybe we do need a new ballroom.

But it's not for him to decide. It's for the American people to decide. It's for the Congress who holds the purse strings to decide. It's for the historic commission to decide. The White House is a federal building. It's not Donald Trump's house. So if you want to do something to a federal building, you have to get approval for it. And it has to go through the process.

He hasn't done any of that. He's just torn down and bulldoze the White House. I don't see anything. The tents don't mind the tent. They don't bother me. I don't think everything has to be a McMansion. He's turning the White House into a McMansion. He's tired.

turning the White House into a Monter. Yeah. And I think that it's nice. Some things are nice the way they are. And some things should not be changed. Like, do you think the Washington monument is not tall enough or big enough or whatever? You know what I'm saying? So am we going to change that?

Right. Well, he's going to build his own arch. Right? He's going to put his own arch opposite the Lincoln Memorial. That's a sign of... What does this mean? A small one. A small...

Maybe anyone who wants to have all of that stuff. It's like, you know, it's like the guy who drives the giant pickup truck or the muscle car. What are you overcompensating for? Why does he need a big ballroom? And it's not even for the American people. It's for foreign dignitaries. And how often does that happen? It doesn't happen that often.

But it could happen more often. I actually think Washington should be entertaining. But you don't have to build it at the White House if you want to have a ballroom, right? You can build it at some other place and say this is the ballroom where we're going to entertain foreign dignitaries. They don't have to go to the White House. Why is it necessary for them to go there? Well, just because I think they're better set up for security and things. Well, yeah.

But, I mean, the Pentagon is. great. I mean, there are other places in Washington where you can build it and then build the security. Well, that feels like it would be weird to have a ballroom at the Pentagon, though. I'm just saying there are other places that are secure. The White House is not the only secure place in Washington, D.C. Right. In fact, now I look back on it. I think it's a miracle that they ever had heads of state in a tent, because surely that's a security risk. I don't know. You've been there, right? Yeah. Those things, your phone, my phone doesn't work.

The planes don't fly over the White House. It's secure airspace. And if someone's going to bomb or do whatever, they can do the same thing to a ballroom that they can do to a tent. The ballroom isn't going to save you that much. I guess. It's only just brick and mortar or wood. It's not going to save you that much.

If someone is hell bent on flying a plane into a tent, then they're going to do it into the ballroom. And if Donald Trump's building, it's probably Twyveck. Not even. Tybeck. Tybeck. Is that what it's called? I feel like American houses are made out of Tyvec, which was a material I'd never come across before I moved here.

They're all, oh, my, I forget what those homes are that are all prefab. I forgot the name of them. But it looks like a prefab home. It's hideous. And he has horrible taste. Are you sure that you're not just being a snob? Yeah, I'm being a snob. You could be, okay, so you're being a design snob because we've seen inside your perfectly designed drawing room where you do a lot of your podcasting from, which is, you know, the utmost taste.

It's beautifully done. Maybe we're just all being design snobs about this. Well, I think it's okay to be a design snob. This is, this, this, this house represents America more than any other structure in the world, even the capital. So it should be in good taste. You know, I mean, would you go think about Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle? Would you want that to be in bad taste? No.

Yeah. So, I mean, and so this is our version of that. And so it should be, we should get approval. It should be, it should have historical approval. It should have architects and beautiful and people who interior, and design and decorators should be a part of this. And it should be in scale of the White House. He's like basically putting like the Superdome, you know, next to, you know, know, a college football stadium.

So it's awful. Do you know what I think we should be thinking of doing is the minute it opens for business, there should be enormous projections against the side of it of Don Lemon. Don Lemon with your enormous microphone. I would love that. Do you know how when Donald Trump visited the king at Windsor Castle and they put Jeffrey Epstein off against the side of that 200-foot stone tower? They should be doing that against the opening of the ballroom.

We should encourage them to come over and start banning. It's the most brilliant guerrilla. It is, but I think it's all windows. Isn't this thing all windows on the side? So I'm not sure how exactly you're going to do that. I think you can still put it on windows. It's better, obviously, if it's on, you know, 1,200-year-old stone walls. But I bet they can figure out a way of doing it.

They better get it done fast because the next person who comes in, I'm pretty sure they're going to tear it down. You think they're going to tear the ballroom down? I would tear it down. As soon as I, if I were elected president, you know, that's the only office I would probably run for. I think you should start thinking about running. People ask me to run for office all the time. What kind of office? People ask me if I ever want to be back in the day during Trump's first term, people would say, you should run for president.

And I'm like, uh, okay, no, I'm not going to do that. Mayor and Senator. Which would you prefer? Where would you start? What would you'll start a politics? I would start a president, man. Like Donald Trump. Yeah.

Trump was never elected to anything before the White House. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what I want to be mayor of New York City? No, probably not. It's too, you know, I think it's a harder job actually than the president. Well, you have to be slightly more accountable in a weird way, right? Yes, because you're more exposed.

You're out there among the people. The president is insulated, right? He's got a all kinds of the circles and circles and circles of security around him. So, you know, you don't, you're not that accountable. You're right. But I think, yeah, and Senator, I think senators have a, they're a bit more elevated than Congress people, even though I think Congress does all of the work. And then the Senate, the Senate just kind of sits around and, you know. So is this something that seriously you could do?

I could be a Senator. But I don't, I wouldn't want to run. And I don't have the patience for it. And I'm too opinionated. But isn't that what it turns out people like? Yeah. And, you know, maybe I'm too flawed. Like, you know, there's a lot of...

But that's also what people like. You couldn't be more flawed than Donald Trump. Right. But does that work for anyone other than Donald Trump? Maybe. We'll see with the guy in Maine, right? The guy with the tattoo, you know, drawing out. We'll see.

The Democrat with the Nazi tattoo. Yeah. Well, is it Nazi or Nazi-like? What a great point. Nazi or Nazi-like? I think it resembles a Nazi, but it's not quite that. It looks like a swastika, but actually it's an ancient... Something like.

Ben. Yeah, I'm not, I don't know. But I'm not, I don't think that Democrats should throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm not so sure that they should jettison this person because I think he's very popular. And it's not a, you know, we all need to get rid of the purity test. Right. Because no one is perfect. Nobody is perfect. And it turns out that people don't want people who are perfect. No. I mean, George Santos got elected. Oh my God. He got pardoned, but he got elected with people knowing that he was a phony. We got, his sentence got commuted, but I don't think he was pardoned. I think he was just let out of, yeah. Okay, he was just led out. So he still has a charges or whatever, but I think he was just let out. What about the Binance guy, the CEO of finance? Oh, wow. And he was, he was, I mean, everybody, they all were guilty.

The thing is, if you are, if you are loyal to Trump, he, he respects fealty and loyalty overall. That's what he wants. and money. And really that's it. Money, power, loyalty. That's easy. I should write a book called Money, Power, Loyalty. Ode to Donald Trump.

Yeah, you should. And you can sell it on your platform and at your live events where you can buy this fabulous t-shirt, which I'm coveting. Isn't it great? Live with Don Lemon. It is great.

And I almost wore a Lemon Nation baseball cap that's black and I asked my husband, I said too much. And he goes, aren't you going to be on camera? Why would you wear a baseball cap? I said, Tim, I wear a baseball cap on my show. And he goes, oh, too much. Well, it's like Chanel, Coco Chanel always said.

Take something off. Yeah, take one thing off before you leave the home. And I took the hat off. Yeah, smart. But I think I'm going to start wearing this t-shirt, maybe a version of it or just a black t-shirt every day. I think the guys, all the, what do you call them, tech guys, Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah, his gray T-shirt. I think they're really smart because then I don't have to search for outfits every day.

And then you're more recognizable, right? It's like a branding thing. It's like a branding thing. And you don't have to waste brain power because every decision you make takes away fuel from your brain. Yeah. So every morning, well, I'm like getting dressed and I'm doing this and I'm on the phone.

I'm like, hey, we want this for the open. Can you grab this piece of content? Oh, I just saw this somewhere. Can we get this? And I'm going, what shirt am I going to wear? Yeah, you shouldn't be doing that. So this is going to be a... You're accepting your cognitive resources.

Yeah. And so when people look at me and they see the Don Lemon Show, they'll know, that's Don's show. He's wearing the black T-shirt or he's wearing the baseball. And these snazzy glasses, which are very good. Where are they from? He's a Robert Mark, who's a dear friend of mine, yeah. Oh, he is? Yeah, he is.

Good, okay, because those are good glasses. But back to the ballroom. So I would tear it down immediately. So he'd better, because it's going to take a long time to build that size of ballroom. If it's not stopped, it could be. stopped. Don't you think? Oh, interesting. Yeah. I mean, what would be impressive is if he built it in record time. He's demolished it in record time. But if he could build it quickly. He's going to have to. Because if he if, if, I think if he, um, if he takes his time or it goes slow, someone will figure out a way to

stop it to block it or to stop it temporarily, whatever. But I would tear it down if I were president or if I had the power and then I would take, I would tell them to tear it down and try to save as much as possible. And then I would take whatever is usable and I'd give it to habitat for humanity. But how would you rebuild, though? I would rebuild the East Wing the same way it was and with obviously new and improved technology and plumbing and all of those things. And I'd probably take the opportunity to do the rest of the White House. I may have everyone move out of the White House temporarily. And then I would upgrade the plumbing and the electricity without changing it, just making it more beautiful, more modern.

but not changing any of the structure, interior, or exterior structure. Put it back the way it was because some things don't need change, don't need to change. And they don't need to be, as I said, a McMansion. And so that's what I would do. And I would take the Rose Garden and put it back in. Be tough. Oh, my gosh, it's so bad. It looks like an Olive Garden patio or like a Panera.

Seriously, in the 70s, when I was coming of age and my grandmother wanted a new patty. He was like, you know, Uncle Lester and his new concrete business came over and poured it. And he's like, oh, my God, Uncle Lester's coming over. And then they took it and he poured it. And it was like, ah, okay, he did okay. Let's just paint it and they'll make it look good. And we'll have a nice patio and we'll just put some big iron furniture out there and some, you know, lounge chairs. And that's what it looks like.

It's awful. It looks like Uncle Lester's patio. Yeah, it's really, really bad. Governor Newsom calls it the Predators Patty. which is quite a good. And I did think it was pretty bad taste of Donald Trump to have the Republican senators all sitting there having a fancy lunch

when they were on, I think, day 22 of the government shut down. We haven't even begun to talk about the government shutdown. But it's all bad, Joanna. It's all bad because you have someone who's obsessed and Caroline Levitt said it yesterday. She said that Donald Trump's number one priority was this ballroom. In the meantime, the government is shut down.

People are being furloughed. Some people are losing their jobs completely. There aren't enough air traffic controllers to keep the skies safe. Some hospitals are either closing or unmodified, whatever, usage. And women are being dragged out of carpool lines picking up their kids from school. Like, you have all of these people are rationing medicine. Prices are up. Negative job numbers.

And his number one priority is a ballroom. room. It is the perfect Marie Antoinette moment. Let them eat cake. He's going to party and everybody and all the dignitaries are going to party in this big ballroom and everyone outside, not everyone, but many of the people who are on the outside are suffering because of your policies. Well, and people are not getting government paychecks either. Right. So, and they're shooting little boats started in the Caribbean. Now it's moved to the Pacific. And he's like, well, I'm just going to shoot people if they're bringing drugs. We have no evidence they're bringing drugs.

We don't have any evidence of anything. We have no evidence that these people are bringing drugs. We have no evidence that the people they're rounding up on the streets are criminal or not. The evidence that comes back is that 70% of them are not. More than 70% don't have criminal records. And he said, I'm only going to get the criminals out of here, only the worst or the bad people. And too many American citizens are being swept up for no due process. They're not seeing any evidence.

They're not seeing any probable cause. They're not seeing any signed warrants from judges. So there's no evidence of anything. But everyone is just going along with it. And I don't understand why people just aren't up in arms and on the streets every day protesting. And honestly, I'm just using this as an, you know, and trying to climb over the walls or the White House and say, what are you guys doing or the Capitol? And yelling at their senators and their Congress and their representatives and saying, the fuck are you guys doing. Don, we're just going to take a quick break for some ads.

And I'm back with Don Lemon, and this is the Daily Beast podcast. Well, we saw the no kings protests. I want to say the no kings parade. I mean the no kings protest last weekend. And we definitely see more people turning up at town halls for congresspeople and senators, right? And certainly people are definitely angry. Do you think a lot of protesters just gone online so it's not as effective? I mean, what I don't understand is how can this not be best?

for Republican candidates. Because Republicans are losing their jobs. Republicans are not getting paychecks. Republican people are working at the TSA. This is not like just targeting Democrat voters. Where do you want me to go? How do you want me to vote? What do you want me to say? They're all in a fucking cult and they only care about... That's very impressive, by the way. That was straight out of the walking dead. Take me to your leader. It's all, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's all, it's a cult. And so, because if Donald Trump has the support of the people and they believe

he does now, even though his numbers are softening, you know, Well, his numbers are really bad. They're really bad right now. And so until, I think until he's out of office, they're not going to change because he has the power right now even if he doesn't have the numbers,

he still has the power to affect them, their jobs and their district and maybe even enough influence to primary them or whatever it is. So they're, They're trapped right now because they went along with this MAGA lie. They went along with this. And now they're stuck. And they're getting blamed for the government shutdown.

So we have a year to go until the midterms. What would you be advising the Democrats to do? Oh, my God. The Democrats are, you guys drive me crazy Democrats. They drive me crazy. All of them. I think there are some good Democrats emerging. Of course there are some good Democrats emerging.

The thing is, is I think they figured, this one thing, I do have to say, the messaging on this, great. Going with health care was the best messaging, the best thing that they could do. And this is the only time I see that Democrats are falling in line. They're carrying the message. Right. Right. They're towing the line.

And I think that that is great. Finally, I don't understand, and I've said this on my show, I don't understand why when MSNBC calls or ABC or CBS or CNN calls this, we, a senator or Congress. Congresswoman, we would like to have you on the show tonight. Sure, that's what I would say, sure. But meet me at Metropolitan Hospital on 45th Street. And we'll do it from there. I'll be live on your show from there. And they'll say, why are you there? I'm here because this hospital is shut down because Republicans have closed. Because the government is closed. And people who live here aren't getting the services from the hospital, the much needed services that they need, the care that they need, because the hospital is shut down and they don't care about your health care. The president cares about a ballroom.

Well, he can have it here in this hospital because it's now empty. And so given this hospital. So that... Are they going to then just say, well, we love that idea, but we don't have the money to send crews out to do that? Who, the TV network? Oh, they will do it. Oh, you think they would go? Of course they would go. Of course they. Then I would say I'm not coming on. I mean, if they can't send a crew out, I do live shots all the time with my cell phone. You can get there. It's not that hard to do. The other thing I would do is the election starts now.

It's already started. I don't understand why Democrats don't have canvassers, democratic strategists, consultants, all out in these neighborhoods where women are being pulled out of the pickup line from school. And I'd have on a vote Democrat. Or did you vote for this? Donald Trump lied to you. And now your wife, your sister, your grandmother, your uncle, your child. now they're being deported or they've been detained. Is that what you voted for?

So you shouldn't be voting for Donald Trump or the Republicans in any in the 2026 or 28 because they lie to you. And now your loved one is gone. They took away your rights as an American citizen. And even if you're not, right, because some American citizens are being detained and then getting summonses and fines because they don't have their papers on them, which is ridiculous. But the Constitution doesn't say citizens have a right to do process. it says all persons.

And that means even people who are here who are undocumented and who are what they call illegal. So I'd be out in the carpool lines. I'd be out in all of these areas where people are being treated terribly. I'd be at the hospitals, the businesses that are closed. I would say take me to the airport. I'd stand in front of the airport with the planes landing and saying, you know what today? For three hours, there weren't enough people in this control tower because the Republicans have closed the government. I don't know why Democrats aren't doing that.

It's not that hard, Joanna. It's actually quite easy. So, Don, it's time for you to run. That was like a stump speech. Come on. You've got the strategy. You've got the personality. You've got the media footprint.

It's time. Don, announce it now. I feel like you should announce that you're going to run. Okay. Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. And I'm running for the host of the Don Lemon show on YouTube. That you've already got.

That you've already have a million of people are watching you and writing to you and leaving comments. I look at all the comments you get. And I just think that it's so easy to sit around and criticize. And people also need to be able to step up and step into government. Yeah. Yeah. But everyone's kind of, people haven't, we haven't seen this before.

Like this isn't what America is supposed to be about. It's like the guy who just recently, I mean, I think it was a very harsh comparison, but he compared what Donald Trump did to the East Wing to ISIS, right? Did you see the guy who did that? No, I missed that. It's actually on... It's saying that the people in those little boats were like ISIS and Al-Qaeda. No, he's an archaeologist.

He's like a real life. He was a guy we had in the Daily Beast. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, he's a proper archaeological, a historical archaeologist. He's a real Indiana Jones. Yes, that what they've done to the East Wing and what they've done to the White House is exactly what terrorists were doing, blown up, beautiful monuments in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

I think people just aren't used to seeing this in America. Well, and I think the speed with which he moved and the fact that he'd promised in July he was not going to do anything to touch the East Wing, another huge lie. Well, it's really about the whole idea of America. My friend Darren Walker, I don't know if you're Darren Walker, he was ahead of the fourth foundation. And he's stepping down at the end of the month. It's over. And he's happy about it. I interviewed him yesterday.

And I saw him at dinner last night, which was great. But he has a book called The Idea of America. And the idea of America is that we, at least one idea is that we had this idea that this grand idea that we would treat people with dignity, that people would have certain freedoms and certain inalienable rights. And that the folks who would, we assumed that the people who would take office. especially the highest office in the land, would have some sort of morals, principles, scruples, right, and also believe in that idea of America. What we found out with Donald Trump is that that doesn't apply to him. And so I think we need better safeguards and rails that can control even the chief executive in the United States.

But we're supposed to have that with Congress. That's Congress's role, right? They're supposed to, as you said earlier, control the purse strings. And yet it turns out that Congress is so frightened of being primaried by. this man if they criticize him, that they won't criticize him. I think we need to figure out how to fix the balance. We need to balance all of that. Because even that needs a safeguard. Right. But what I'm shocked by is, is not only that, but the sense that everybody around him is not only not acting as a guardrail, they are in fact enabling him. And he has surrounded himself

by a strange bunch of people who Michael Wolf was saying on our most recent edition of inside Trump's head wouldn't be hired by any other president. They wouldn't be selected by any other president because they don't have the competencies. But they suddenly realize they're in a role here that they'll never be in again. And so they're doing everything they possibly can to cause maximum chaos. Yeah. But also 100% correct.

But they wouldn't be hired at the water company or the dog catching company, some of these people. Right. Right. And so he's put compromised people, flawed, very flawed people in these positions because they, so, because they will be beholden to him and they will do whatever he wants. That's the sad truth of it all. But I think that it's not necessarily that people have enabled him because they have.

But I think the Republicans and the Democrats, but it's sort of a tacit. They're not explicitly doing it, but because they're so unnerved by it and they're they're frozen, right? They don't know how to react to it. And so every time they don't react and people become stalled or freeze and go, wait, what do we? I don't know what to do. Like, it empowers. It emboldens him more himself. I think he has been surprised by what he has been able to get away with.

And because every time he gets away with something, then that emboldens him even more. And then he does something else. And he goes, oh. And then he goes, oh, I can get away with that. And then he goes, oh, then I don't do this. And then nobody stops him. Someone has to go, no. No, little chump.

You can't do that. Now go to your room. To be fair, there are lots of judges have been doing it, right? He defies them. Well, he defies some of them. He hasn't defied all of them. There are definitely brave judges out there. There are definitely brave lawyers out there.

And we had Robbie Kaplan, E. Jean Carroll's lawyer on, and she was talking about... She's a force, man. She is a force. And she was talking about how the legal system is actually. actually holding. It may not feel as if it is, but it is actually holding. Although it's hard to know how it's holding when he's just randomly shooting boats wherever he says he can see a drug dealer. And I don't know how they know that drug dealers. They don't. Well, of course, they don't. They have no idea. Why am I looking for logic in this

situation? I'm so glad you said that. Because my husband said to me, he goes, why would he commute George Santos' sentence. Like, he's not even that big a figure. Like, no one really cares about him. Why would he do it? And I looked at, I was like, what do you mean? Why? And he said, there is no logic to what he's doing. And then he, I read his tweet or post, and it says that he had the nerve or the whatever, I'm paraphrasing, to always vote Republican. And I said, there's your answer right there. But he goes, but he's not, like, who cares? He's a clown. I said, yeah, so is Donald Trump. But there's no logic in it. And it's a signal.

Like, it doesn't matter. As long as you're loyal to me, if you're in trouble, if you break into the Capitol and you smear feces on the wall or urine on the wall, you steal things out of the leaders' offices, if you break windows, then it doesn't matter because I'm going to pardon you. Right. If you push over policemen or knock them to the ground. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Don, hold your fire for one moment while we get some messages from our sponsors. And I'm back with Don. and talking about everything.

So this has all been very gloomy. What do you, let me ask you two questions. All right, what's the thing that actually keeps you up at night? And then how can we find joy in life other than just comfort eating? Oh, the thing that keeps me up at night. Is there any one of these things worse than the others to you? I think the thing that keeps me up at night is that we, This is going to be, someone asked me about, they asked me if I think our democracy will hold.

And so I'm different. I'm different. I asked my friend Darren Walker that in an interview regarding this book because he's very hopeful. And he said, I do believe that. I believe, you know, and he said that we have a very complicated history. And he talked about Thomas Jefferson and Macello and all that stuff. I don't believe, I believe our democracy is over. I think Donald Trump has killed democracy in America.

So you think that the midterms are. going to happen or are they going to happen and he'll disregard the results if they're not in his favor? I think, yes, especially if he's able to take over cities with federal officers and troops and the National Guard and all of that. Yeah. So I think our democracy is over. And democracy is, democracy is not just an election. It's also about how we treat each other. Right. And about the institutions. The institutions and what rules we follow and do we follow the law? Do we follow the Constitution? And so far, it's not happening. And so I believe that it's over. Some people believe that it's teetering. I think that we've already, we haven't slid into fascism, we've careened into fascism.

And that's where America is right now. So when people say, this is not America, it is. It's not who we're supposed to be. But this is who we are right now. So that keeps me up at night. I don't know how we get it back after this. So back to my original analogy or example. I think this analogy applies. When Trump is gone, we have to tear down the ballroom and we have to rebuild everything. That's what we have to do. We have to tear all of the stuff that he did down and we have to rebuild our democracy back. And hopefully, hopefully, you know, 2028 that will happen.

And maybe in the midterms, I hope. But we've got to stop him from taking over cities and just bulldozing local officials, local leaders who the people elected. and just coming in and doing what he wants. We have to stop that. Okay. Between now and the midterms, what are you going to do to stay sane? What do you do when you're... I mean, you're on camera most of the time,

but in the small hours of downtime when you're not actually Don Lemon live or running around outside with your enormous microphone... She's obsessed with that. I'm going to bring it next time. I'm going to make you one so that you have it. All right, so I can run around too. What do you do to stay sane and in such fabulous shape?

Well, the thing is, is that when I'm sitting there in front of the camera all day, I don't really get a chance to eat a lot. I eat, in the morning, like my husband will make me just out of the goodness of his heart, he'll make me like a yogurt something, and I'll have that in tea, and I drink tea all day, and that's what I do. And I chew bubble gum, right, which is bad for my teeth. That's why I'm at the dentist, like, twice a month. And so I do that, so I don't eat that much.

And so I can eat whatever I want. If you don't eat a lot, you can eat whatever you want. So if I feel like I want McDonald's and I'll go and I'll get like a hamburger and some prize, whatever, and then I won't have it for, you know, a couple months, okay. But I never deny myself anything and I just don't eat a bunch and I don't eat a lot. But what do I do? I spend time in the community of my family and my friends. So tonight I have a date night with my husband.

And so, and when I get home, I'll play with my dogs and then I'll go, you know, take them to the park real quick, dog park, and then I'll go and back and do my thing. I love what I do. I love what I do. I love that people are recognizing what I do and appreciating what I'm doing. So that is helpful. And I love that. The thing that I think other people should take away from this is if you're watching, no matter what happens to you in life, you can always make a lot. into a positive. You always have agency. You always have power, whether you realize it or not. It

may not be the same way you had it before, but you always have that. And I think Americans have more power than they think they have. And if Jimmy Kimmel did not show them that, then I don't know what will. If the no kings with seven million people out there did not show them that, then I don't know what will. Well, I think being arrested by masked men and bundled into the back of the card doesn't make you feel very powerful. I think being zip tied doesn't make you feel powerful. I think not having a salary check doesn't make you feel powerful. I think working at the TSA and not being paid doesn't make you feel powerful.

But you have to, you've got to find the positive and the thing that motivates you where you can. And I think that you have to have a mindset of abundance always, a mindset of that something good is going to happen to me today, even. even though this bad thing may be happening. Something good is going to come out of this. I wholeheartedly believe that. A mindset of abundance instead of scarcity.

And a mindset of power instead of impotency. Okay. Or a mindset of butterfingers. A mindset. Or Snickers. No, snickers. You're going for the snickers. No, no, I'm going to do the butterfinger.

Okay, you're doing the butter finger. It's so good. I took a bite of it and this sugar just, it just, I could feel it outlining my skull. But it's so creamy. There's nothing like a Snickers bar, though. Right. Snickers.

You know what my comfort is. You've got peanuts. What? A Snickers bar, a bag of plain Lays potato chips, and a Diet Coke. Did you know that there was a report just recently in Fortune.com that said that 40% of people who eat lays potato chips don't understand they're made out of potatoes? No. What do you think they think they're eating? I don't know, but I mean, I'm eating this butterfinger and I know that I'm eating fingers.

like people's fingers. Don Lemon, it's always good to see you. I hope people check out Lemon Live, if they haven't, Don Lemon Live, and that you will come back and talk to us again very soon. Thank you. I love our relationship. Good. We're growing into like a budding friendship,

or at least a healthy respect for whatever. I have no respect for you. I have zero risk for you. I love talking to you and I really love your glasses. I'm thinking, why don't I have glasses like that? You know, I think podcasts just need glasses. Right. They need glasses and merge.

They need merch. Thank you. So, of course, the one thing Don and I didn't talk about was Jeffrey Epstein and how so much of what is going on right now appears to be a major distraction from, as Michael Wolf will tell you, how Donald Trump thinks of it, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. So the demolition of the entire East Wing of the White House. the taking out of little boats in the Caribbean that nobody knows if they're drug dealers or fishermen. The government shutdown, now on, I think, day 30, all distractions from the thing that we know

most on nerves this president, Jeffrey Epstein. If you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast and the Daily Beast podcast. We are independent media, so we really appreciate your support. Feel free to leave us a comment. We love your ideas for guests and for topics, and we'll be going through your comments,

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