The Daily Beast Podcast - What We Are Seeing on College Campuses Is Truly Disturbing

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

This week on The New Abnormal, co hosts Andy Levy and Danielle Moodie discuss the overblown response to pro Palestine protests on college campuses. Plus! The Nation's justice correspondent, Elie Mystal, joins the show to talk about the many problems with the U.S. Supreme Court. Then, Democratic candidate for Congress in Florida's 13th congressional district, Whitney Fox, shares why she’s joining the fight. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. What a great show we have for you today. Justice Corresponded at the nation and author of Allow Me to Retort,

a Black guy's Guide to the Constitution, Ellie Mistal, joins us to break down the ins and outs of the Supreme Court in the presidential immunity case. Then, Congressional Hopeful Out of Florida, Whitney Fox is here to tell us all about her campaign and what drove her to run. But first, let's have some fun. So, Danielle made it. think the most interesting VP case that Trump is going to pick 10 Cruz on a previous episode. But Andy, you and I at Christy Noem. How are you feeling today? I'm not feeling great about that pick anymore.

I feel like events may have overtaken it. The thing is, and we're talking, of course, about the fact that she wrote in her memoir about how she murdered her dog. The thing is, 10 years ago, I would have said, oh, yeah, no, she doesn't have a chance. Now I'm not entirely sure this is disqualifying. So I don't feel as good about my pick as I did a couple weeks ago when we were discussing this. And I suspect that she will not be the vice presidential pick anymore. But it is really something that I'm looking at this and I'm going,

it's not to me automatic that killing your dog, which really was still a puppy, rather than attempting to train it or something other than murdering it, that that is not, at least in my mind, that's not immediately 100% disqualifying for the Republican Party. My hot take here, the cruelty is the point. And Trump, there's something with dogs. You know how he likes to say everything like a dog? When I looked at the other people in the betting pool, I just looked around that crowd and I said, my money is still on her. Yeah, I have to say that I don't think that it's disqualifying.

For whatever perverse reason, I think that she, thinks that that is showing strength. Like, I know how to handle a gun. I'm not afraid to put something down. Like, it's really sick, actually. And then the fact that she's receiving backlash, and the backlash is coming from everywhere. Like, instead of saying, maybe I shouldn't have put that in my book, or I have great remorse about it, but she didn't have any remorse. She said, I hated that fucking dog, right? It's just like, it's so vile, but if Donald Trump is looking for a woman running mate in order to soften his, you know, alleged rapist tendencies and misogyny, she's still up there. So I don't know if you guys are out of the running, sadly. I think she is saying now exactly what you just said, Danielle, she's talking about how it was not an easy decision, but often the easy way isn't the right.

way. What? Oh, yeah, that's her thing. That's literally what she has said. That was a quote. And she posted this on Twitter. The fact is, South Dakota law states that dogs who attack and kill livestock can be put down.

And it's like, nobody is saying, I don't think, that what you did was illegal. Like, we understand that you didn't break the law by doing this. We're saying you're a fucking sociopath. Yes. Like, that's what we're saying. So there's a way to spin this, which she is doing, which plays well with at least a definitely not infinitesimal segment of the Republican base where this shows strength and doing the tough things and stuff like that. On the other hand, we are a very dog-loving country.

Mm-hmm. And I say that as a cat owner. And I do think there are a lot of people who are going to look at this and go, I am not voting to put that psycho in the White House. Yeah, like, I honestly, I think that you're right. I think that you, that we are a country that really, cares for dogs and like, you know, and I think that like literally, regardless of your part, people think about their dogs as a part of their family. And thinking about that, again, it's sociopathic to be like, I hated that fucking dog. And so I dug a shallow grave shot it and threw it in there. It's just, it's sick. It's sick. So yeah, I mean, if that's going to be his choice, okay, go with it. I have to say some Democrats were doing some really good

work on this. Tim Walls, yeah, the governor of Minnesota. I know, I know Whitmer I saw, and they were posting pictures of them with dogs along with the caption. Post a picture with your dog that doesn't involve shooting them and throwing them in a gravel bit. Damn. That's good stuff. I don't know. The more I think about this, I think maybe she can't be picked. I would like to give a shout out to the editor of this book, who I think very clearly hates Christy Gnome. I think so. I was going to say the same thing because, again, who looks at that outline and says, that seems like a good chapter.

I'm just trying to picture who you have surrounding you in your life where nobody says to you, hey, governor, Christy, let's talk about this section for a minute and how it makes you look. Like, she clearly has nobody in her life that will do that. And that's, I think that says a lot. Yeah, it does. So the last couple of weeks, we have seen a real, I want to say, clamp down on college campuses. There has been a number of protests, of encampments that have been built on college campuses

by students who are asking for universities to have transparency about where their resources are going. And what has made me really honestly disturbed are the militarized police and the presence that we are seeing on university campuses and the decisions that are being made to, like, violently arrest students, lock them out of their dorms, lock them out of dining halls. I have to say this because we've talked about it here before that the cost of college, there is just no way to go to college in America and not incur a six-figure debt. And so the idea that you don't get to ask questions about where your money is going that is going to put you surely in debt is wild to me. The idea that we look at institutions as a place of higher thinking, of critical thought, of the future leaders of, of this country. And the way that they are now being treated is, I think, incredibly problematic when our democratic values as a whole are under attack by right-wing fascism.

Okay, moving on. Wow, Andy. No, no, no, no. I would just like to invite any members of my family who are listening to turn this off so I can say my piece. A little bit of background about me. I am a Columbia University graduate in the, I think it was the 1900s. It was a long, long time ago. That's the 1900. While I was there, I got put on academic probation for protesting in favor of divestment from South Africa. So I say this not to pat myself on the back or anything like that, but I think it's important that people know where I'm coming from on this. And the site of the NYPD coming on to that campus and arresting people and students and faculty who were not being

violent, by the way, really, really, really bothered me. I don't even care what side they're on. That's not the issue for me here. The issue for me here is we're talking about a mostly peaceful protest. I know that there's been some hideous stuff that is being shouted and whatever. My understanding from people I've talked to and everything I've read is that most of the of that is coming from the off-campus protesters who are outside the Columbia gates and who, I think, more than likely are not affiliated with Columbia University as either students or faculty. The things I've seen from on the campus there are students pitching tents on one of the lawns. I actually saw some saders being conducted there during Passover.

And it's important, I think, to note that there's a decent amount of these protesters are Jewish. So the idea that you're going to have cops come on campus and drag the protesters off in some cases in handcuffs and arresting them. And I know that as we record this earlier today, Columbia notified the people in the tents, the quote unquote encampment, that they have until 2 p.m. to clear out. And if they don't, they will be suspended. I don't like any of that. What's going on in the Middle East is complex and difficult not to sound like a radical centrist, but I, I do know people of good faith on both sides there. I, my own opinion, and I'm going to keep that to myself on this podcast.

But I don't think that bringing the cops in to drag people off and just willing-nilly suspending people and booting them for a peaceful protest is the way to go here. I think it's the exact opposite of the way to go here. And it really sucks that the administration is doing this. I think that universities and colleges are supposed to be micro-examination. or cosmos of our greater society. Supposedly, if we say that we're a country that believes in the freedom of speech, that believes in the freedom of assembly, and those things are written into our Constitution, then I think that if you are utilizing your voice, right, and your critical thinking

skills, which you are paying to do on said university campus, and you are causing no harm, because I don't think that pitching a tent and sitting in, this has always been a part of, you of university culture. You can look at the 1960s and the Vietnam War. You can look at the civil rights movement. You can look at exactly what you opened with Andy with regard to apartheid in South Africa. College campuses and universities

have always been at the center of different movements. And so, you know, the presence of these cops. And I just, again, I have to say this. Because when you had those tiki torch carrying motherfuckers that were screaming all types of shit, I don't remember seeing militarized police. I don't remember seeing those khaki wearing, tiki torch carrying,

you know, screaming anti-Semitism as they were marching. Those people were allowed to graduate. They weren't suspended from their universities. And again, where was the emphasis on police in, you know, in militarized gear,

like going after white supremacist? We've talked about this before on this. show that are freely marching down the streets of Tennessee, that are freely marching down different. You don't see this kind of heat. And the question that I always have to ask is why, right? And that's the question we all should be asking. I'm not for the militarization of police departments at all. I believe that they should be demilitarized. But when you're actually looking at people who are readily using anti-Semitism, not those that are on the fringe, but those that are marching, where is that energy? So I also, you know, think that it's really important

that mainstream media actually like cover these protests in the right way and not just dismiss what is being said because of what happens on the fringe, because there are always people on the fringes of movements that try to bring them down from the outside in. And so again, I think that it's really important for us to understand that if we're a nation that believes in our constitutional and democratic values, then that should apply and not just be willy-nilly about who we give those freedoms to and when? Yeah, 100% agree with that.

I was actually, yesterday I was watching a documentary on January 6th that I'm going to be interviewing the directors of for later this week. And I kept thinking the whole time because they kept saying, well, we couldn't send in the National Guard because the optics were bad and all this stuff and they were very concerned with stuff like that.

And to go right along with what you were saying, I was thinking, well, we didn't have any problem sending armed cops onto a college campus to arrest people who were sitting on a lawn. But here you have people who were literally storming the Capitol building, trying to disrupt democracy, and who were absolutely had murderous intent. And they were worried about the optics of bringing in the National Guard. And so that, I think, just again, that aligns perfectly with the exact point you were making. And then I'm thinking of, I forget which school it was, because these student protests have, I concentrate on Colombia because it's, you know, it's where I went and I have a niece who goes there now. The protests have spread. And they're in a bunch of different universities in a bunch of different states. And there was video going around over the weekend in one of the schools. And the cops had been called in and they were arresting a protester.

And a female professor walked up to the cop and said, what are you doing? and he put her in handcuffs and dragged her off. And she is now being charged with assault, which the video shows she clearly did not commit. And this is exactly the kind of thing we're going to see more and more of if this is allowed to continue. There are a lot of liberals who seem to have made peace with this and somehow they now think this is okay. I'm here to tell you it's not okay. Whether or not you agree with the protesters is not the issue here. As you said, these protesters are being treated more violently than...

Than those that actually commit violence. Exactly. Than neo-Nazis, then the traitors who stormed the Capitol on January 6th. And I don't know how anybody doesn't think that's upside down. You have Republican politicians that are calling for the National Guard to be brought in, that are calling for these things. These are the same motherfuckers that were running for their lives on January 6 and then want to pivot and tell us that it, was nothing more than tourism that we were seeing on January 6th. And so I'm like, language matters.

The truth actually matters. Facts matter. And so I just encourage people to really see through what is being done and recognize that, again, to your point, Andy, whether you agree or disagree is not the point. People have a right to protest. And once we begin picking away at that, we're picking away at our own freedom. Speaking of picking away. Let's talk about RFK Jr.

And him getting on the ballot in a handful of states. What I will say is, you know, this election, and I say this all the time on social media, is too important for this third party bullshit. It honestly is, and I will say it over and over again. I know that people are angry. I know that there are lots of thoughts and feelings. But I also know that you can't fight for democracy. if you lose it. You can't fight for democracy elsewhere if you lose it in this country. So

RFK Jr. to me, he's a Jill Stein. He's one where the margins of elections are so slim, where you're talking about people losing, like we talk about Bobert, she won by like 500 and some odd votes. So RFK Jr., to me, has always been a very annoying figure. But come to find out, he's not peeling votes away from who I thought he was peeling votes away from. It turns out that according to latest polls, that the people that are deciding to go for RFK Jr. are actually like former Trump supporters. And so Donald Trump took to his bullshit social media platform to rail against RFK Jr. And so now we see that maybe, and I'm like, okay, go ahead of RFK, If this is who your constituency is, by all means, you know, go for it.

To the extent that he takes votes away from anyone, I always sort of figured it would be Trump. I mean, if you just look the anti-VAC stuff and all this other stuff is not the kind of positions that a Biden voter looking for an alternative is going to wander off to. And I know that the counter to that is, yes, but his name carries a lot of cachet among Democrats. But I honestly, the more he's been out there and the fact that his entire family has basically, you know, disavowed him, I think that takes away from that. I know sometimes we do have to talk about him, but I hate it because I think he's absolutely worthless. And I do think that he's one of those people that the more he's talked about, the stronger he gets as this candidate. So I hate the whole thing.

and I do find it funny now because Republicans were all excited when he originally started running, and they couldn't have been more supportive. And he was all over Fox News and, et cetera. And now they have completely pivoted to sort of hating their own creation. And like you said, Trump went off on truth social about him. And look, the fewer Stacey gets on the ballot, the better. And I think the less that anybody, including us, talks about him, the better. Amen.

Folks, I am so happy to welcome back to the new abnormal friend of mine and friend of the show, Ellie Mistole, who is the justice correspondent for the nation and the author of, Allow Me to Retort, and my favorite voice of reason and rage on all of cable news about all things scotus. Ellie, first of all, I'm certain that when you went to law school, like, it was exciting to learn about the law and to really to write about it, to cover it now. Is it just as depressing as I find the fact that I'm a political science major and I really wish that I had done a different life path? You should be happy you didn't go to law school because everything you learned in law

school apparently doesn't matter anymore because Donald Trump exists, right? The entire kind of legal basis for how we operate as a constitutional republic can be thrown out of the window anytime that legal basis threatens the livelihood and presidential aspirations of Donald Trump. But Danielle, I'm actually super happy that you brought up my law school experience. My first year of law school was the year 2000. So at the end of my first semester of law school, I got to witness kind of Bush v. Gore in real legal time. And it's been from then, like my entire career, you can almost trace to those a few weeks. Because from then, I understood that the Supreme Court was nothing more than political actors in robes, right?

They are partisan acts wearing robes doing things to help their preferred political candidate. And Bush v. Gore made that obvious. And we have been living under that shadow for 24, almost 25 years. And I keep waiting for the rest of the media industrial complex to catch the fuck up. because it's been a quarter of a century now where these people are wild and out on the Supreme Court in preference of their preferred political candidates. I'm so glad that you brought up Bush v. Gore because we were young at that time and very fresh for me in politics and for you in the law. And I don't think that there has been enough honest conversation and reflection on how that decision reshaped the political landscape and the footprint of the Supreme Court. I think that it was at least in near modern times when you realized how politicized the Supreme Court had become. And since then, we have seen what I can now say is an escalation.

It is an escalation in political rhetoric, in open grifting. And so when we now have one of, I don't know if you agree with me, Ellie, but I would think that the presidential immunity case, is one of the most important cases of recent time. And I'm talking about in terms of presidential power, executive power in the country. And we're seeing it before Clarence Thomas, Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch, I mean, these people that were placed there

to literally undo democracy. So how do we even, can we even say that any aspect of this is being looked at through an objective lens of the law. No, there is no objectivity on the Supreme Court. And I would argue that there hasn't been, again, for at least a quarter of a century. The thing that I wrote about in the nation was that the Supreme Court acts with impunity because they are never held accountable. Nothing ever happens to them.

Nobody ever snatches them by the short hairs and takes away their power. Nobody ever holds them to account. And if you are treated like that for, again, let's remember the rest of your natural lives. Right. Well, you're going to start acting like with impunity. You're going to start acting like you are above the law because you are. Because no laws matter to you because when you find a law that you don't like, you just change the law.

You don't follow it. You change it into your own image to help you and help your wife and help your secret. sons and that sort of things, right? Which is what parents Thomas and Neil Gorsuch and Samuel Alito do and certainly Brett Kavanaugh, right? So like one of the reasons why I exist is to try to get people to understand that the Supreme Court acts the way it does because it can. And it will continue acting this way until it can't until they're stopped,

until they suffer some political consequence for their extremism and partisanship. Right. Now, obviously I'm, you know, big on. the court expansion. We should expand the number of justices on the court to take away their power. But if you don't like that reform, give me one that you do like, right? Tell me about how you're going to make term limits happen. Tell me about how you're going to do what the lawyer nerds call jurisdiction stripping, which would be kind of removing certain cases and certain issues like abortion from the Supreme Court's purview, like not letting them decide on those cases. Like there are lots of

different reforms. I've written about a lot of them that you can have. Frick and pick one at this point because, you know, pick ethics reform. For God's sakes, you know, do ethics reform with real teeth so that when these people violate the ethics rules, they can be forced to recuse themselves from cases. Do something, pick something. Because if you don't pick anything, the Supreme Court will continue to do this the rest of your life and mind. You know, but what I find really interesting, particularly on the ethics piece, because when all of the New Republic's stories drop, about Clarence Thomas, about his relationship with Harlan Crow. And we see all of the quote unquote polling around the Supreme Court, which is in the toilet.

And Justice John Roberts was called in by the Senate judiciary to sit down and he said, nah, I'm good. Like, I'm good. You know, I'll write a memo and put in a couple of guidelines there. And so what does reform actually look like when the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court can deny attending a judiciary hearing request by the Senate? Well, you know, first of all, it's ProPublica, not the new Republic. I've worked for the nation.

Oh, ProPublica, I'm sorry. Defend not Turfith. That was ProPublica who did that great Hewler's Prize worthy reporting. Anyway, yeah, so reform starts at home, right? And one of the things that I have learned in my life, one of the movements that's really taught me a lot about how political action needs to work has been. in even as people face retrenchment, the complete success story of the LGBT movement in this country over my lifetime, right?

Like, for my parents' generation, it was the civil rights movement. That was the most effective social movement. In my generation, it has been the LGBTQ movement, right? Like where we are now versus where we were, even 25 years ago, say nothing of 40 years ago, huge success. And what the LGBTQ movement did was that I didn't start by scroll. screaming at their enemies, right? Then it starts by, oh, you Republican in Montana, why do you hate me?

No, no, no, no. It's they started with Democrats. They started with their friends. Mm-hmm. And they were basically like, I'm going to need more from y'all, right? I'm going to need more from you, President Barack Obama, who runs at first as a marriage is between one man and one woman and then evolves his position when he realizes is going to cost him his ambitions, right?

They start there. And for Supreme Court reform, we need to start with the people who will listen to us. We need to start with the Democrats, right? So while I can rail against Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham and all those Republicans who are fans of Harlan Crow on Halland Crow's payroll and what have you, I start with Dick Durbin, who's the current chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And I say, what are you doing for me lately, sir? Where are you bringing the fire?

How have you evolved your position on the Supreme Court? because right now, Dick Durbin still didn't get, hasn't gotten a memo from 25 years ago from Bush v. Gore. Dick Durbin still thinks the Supreme Court is fundamentally a nonpartisan objective institution with some rough edges, right? And so he's going to send a strongly worded letter to John Robert. Maybe you should know. That that is so an old school way of handling the problem that it suggests that Dick Durbin doesn't understand what the problem is. But that's functionally how politics has worked. is that everyone who is, I mean, when we're looking at the average age of those that are in the Senate,

they are operating under 20th century logic in terms of, oh, this is how we do business. If you shame people, if you have these things in the headlines, oh, we have these conversations and handshake agreements behind closed doors, this is a gentleman's club type of thinking. This is how Joe Biden went into his presidency. Oh, I've worked with these men for 40 some odd years so I can talk to Mitch McConnell and I can talk to my friends from across the aisle until you realize that your friends from across the aisle have sworn their allegiance and taken a blood oath with a fucking cult. And so it's like, I believe in what you're saying in terms of needing to talk to your friends, but when your friends are literally operating in a different century in terms of thinking. And it's like how many times does this Supreme Court have to show you who they are? and how they operate before you recognize that the standards that we once held and had for them

don't exist anymore. Democrats will continue to act this way until one of them catches a primary on this issue and loses. And I know that from watching the Republicans, right? Because that is the reason, that is the fundamental reason why Republicans have won the courts and Democrats have lost the courts. because any time a Republican who is weak on the courts, who is weak on getting conservative,

force birth, anti-gay judges on the court, every time one of those Republicans pops their head out, they get smushed in the primary. They get wrecked in the primary over this issue. I can prove that even if you look at Donald Trump, if you go back to 2015, right, in 2016, and Donald Trump is running for president, and he's anti-establishment,

and he's the crazy guy, and he's rich, and Mexicans are rapists and Edo. And then it comes to the Supreme Court and it's like, here's my list from Leonard Leo. All that craziness, all that anti-establishment, Trump shut the fuck up when it came time to talk about Supreme Court justices. He presented them a complete normal Republican Leonard Leo approved list of judges. And he, because he had to because he knew that he could not fuck with the conservatives about judges.

He could mess around with everything else, but he had to give the conservatives to their judges. And if you look at the judges that he picked, Neil Gorsuch, first one out of the gate. Any Republican Mitt Romney would have picked Neil Gorsuch, right? Jeb Bush would have picked Neil Gorsuch for the first justice out of the gate, right? Amy Coney-Barritt, same kind of deal. Kavanaugh was weird because he tried to rape somebody and I think that excited Trump. But the other two are kind of middle of the road fed sock picks, right? That's because Trump had to do that. Now go to the other side. Joe Biden is the least interested in court reform out of any

of the, you know, 1,500 people running for the primary in 2020, right? The least interested didn't cost him a vote. Dick Durbin has wanted to be chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee for maybe his entire career doing it in this old school, as you put it, 20th century away, doesn't cost him a primary at all. And as long as that's the case, as long as Democrats are able to be weak on the courts without catching a primary, without losing a primary, without getting Eric, canter over this shit, then Democrats will continue to behave this way.

So I think that maybe over the last several years under Trump, I feel like America has gotten a 101 course in the law because there are so many fucking trials that are in the headlines that involve Donald Trump. I feel like we all have some form of cliff notes understanding of the legal system. The Stormy Daniels case, though, this, what the DA is referring to as election interference. You have some others that are saying, oh, this is just a business integrity case. You have the Trump defense saying that, oh, this is just like, you know, paperwork misfiling. What's the truth? The answer is a little bit complicated. And I'll just put my cars on the table. I am not as interested in this trial as others because this trial is not likely to result

in jail time. And I'll take it upon myself. This is my, you know, blind spot, if you will. but I am in the jail or GTFO stage of the Trump experience. Come on. Like put the man in jail or let me go back to bed because I don't have time for anything else, right? It is unlikely, even if he is convicted, that he will serve real jail time because the crime that he committed, which while it certainly is a crime, and while it is certainly the kind of thing that other people do and have been prosecuted for in the past, it is not the kind of crime. that traditionally lands people in jail, especially, and Danielle, you know, I hate to say this, especially for first-time offenders. And because Donald Trump has gotten away, has hacked the legal system throughout his entire

life avoiding accountability and prosecution, Trump is technically a first-time offender under New York state law. But is this why then the DA is a classification? this as election interference to ratchet up the gravity. But I guess my question is, in your opinion, does it rise to the level that they're trying to make it? Yes, it does. But it's complicated because Trump committed a felony and committing felonies is bad. That's what I mean, that's what I heard, you know, but I don't know. And so Trump should be prosecuted for this felony. And it is the kind of felony that other people get prosecuted for. It's just not the kind of felony at lands people in jail.

What he did most likely, allegedly, but I believe, you know, because I have seen the documents, I believe what he did was falsify his business records so that he could commit a campaign finance infraction, right? Like that is straight up law, Black Book Law 101. He lied about this so we could do that. That is the case that Bragg is bringing anybody else who did that. You know, Kathy Holcomb, Andrew Cuomo, you know, Letitia James, if any of those public officials did something like this. They would be prosecuted by the state of New York. This is a textbook crime, textbook infraction. It is just not the kind of crime and infraction that usually lands 77-year-old first-time offenders in jail.

So while it is important to hold Trump accountable for this, because, you know, this is how he becomes not a first-time offender when he does it again. And we all know Trump crimes like other people breathe. So it's important to hold him accountable for this. I can't kind of get up out of bed on it because it's not likely, land him in jail. The truth of the matter is that he did something criminal. He did something wrong, but not every criminal wrong act necessarily results in jail time. And I also, you know, Danielle, I'll also say that as part of my bias here is that despite how I think terrible Trump is, I still remain, you know, fundamentally an anti-carceral progressive, right? I don't think that jail

is always the right answer for every crime. And so one of the things, things that I've said a lot about Trump and a lot about his legal travails in general is that it's not that I want the system to treat Trump like a black person. Man, I wouldn't wish being treated like a black person by the justice system. I'm my worst enemy. Sam Alito. I wouldn't wish that. I want black people to be treated like Donald Trump. That's right. That's right. I want other black first time offenders of business infractions and financial fraud to also not get jail time when it's their turn in the barrel. That's what I want, right? I want everybody to be raised up to the level of Donald Trump. I don't want Donald Trump to be pushed down to the level of like me, right? And what would

happen to me if I was in that courtroom, right? So, so like I come at it from that perspective. None of that is to say that what Trump did isn't serious, isn't indictable, isn't convictable, and that he shouldn't be held accountable for it. He absolutely should. And he and hopefully he will be. I don't know so much about this jury. I mean, it's, man, it feels like a hung jury situation. We'll have to see how it goes because the evidence against him is relatively clear. It's relatively, you know, nobody seriously disputes that he had sex with Stormy Daniels. Nobody seriously disputes that he paid her money through Michael Cohen to keep her mouth shut. Nobody seriously disputes that he lied about what the money was for.

And nobody seriously disputes that he did that in order to help his presidential campaign. Those are the elements of the case. That's his motive. That's his evidence. It should be a simple conviction unless, you know, he got some Trump cultists on the jury. Yeah. I mean, we'll have to leave it there today. But to me, this is a case that doesn't feel like it requires you to have a law degree.

It seems very cut and dry. It seems as if the average of average person can understand, oh, you broke the law. Like you were not supposed to do X, Y, and Z. And this wasn't just about covering up an affair. it was about covering up an affair using inappropriate funds to ensure that voters wouldn't know who you really were. You can handle this case in a Law and Order episode, quite frankly. Yes, we'll probably see that in the coming months.

My friend, Ellie Mistal, always appreciate you making time for the new abnormal and there's a lot more law news. So hopefully we'll talk to you again soon. Talk to you in June when the Supreme Court really goes off the chain. Oh, God. Whitney Fox is a Democratic candidate for Congress in Florida's 13th congressional district, and she joins me now to tell us about herself. Whitney, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

So if I'm correct, I think this is your first foray into sort of elected politics. What were you doing before this? Yes, you are correct. Previously, I was the Director of Communications and Marketing and worked on legislative priorities for our county's public transportation system. So a lot of work with our local state and federal government to work together with both Democrats and Republicans to get things done and bring projects and funding for public transportation back to our county. Oh, interesting. Obviously, you understand how government works, at least on the local side down there. And so I'm looking at, you know, the Republican who currently holds your seat, Annapolino Luna, is one of the worst members of Congress. And I say that, by the way, objectively, that that's not editorializing. It's just factual. Is this what made you decide to throw your hat into the ring? Were people urging you to run?

Or was it something that was sort of totally self-driven? You know, it was one of those things where I was born and raised here in the Tampa Bay area. And I know my community very well. And she is just way too extreme for this district. And now that I'm a mother of two little girls who are growing up with fewer rights than I did, I knew that we had to do something. And I had to stand up and do something about this. So from my experience and my relationships that I have here in the district, as well as understanding of what our voters are going through, having worked in public transportation and seeing the struggles firsthand that people are feeling, I knew that we desperately need new leadership.

And not just that, but I mean, we have many people, Democrats and Republicans saying we've got to get her out. She is doing nothing for Pinellas County. So there are many people across the aisle who are eager to get her out of office. And you're running against, I believe, four other Democrats for the party nomination with an August primary coming up. So what sets you apart from your fellow primary candidates? Well, truly before I decided to, like you said, run for office and do this crazy thing, I really sat down with our local electives and asked them if they were going to be running and that I would support them because we all truly need to be a force behind us to make sure that we are going up against her and showing that we have an army ready to take her out. And I knew when I received a lot of support from our local electeds, including Congresswoman Kathy Castor over in Hillsborough County and Lois Frankel in South Florida, plus 30 other local elected

leaders, I knew that we had to jump in here and that we had the support that we need in order to be Anna Polina Luna. But truly, the best and most exciting part of this is the fact that I've out-fundraised Anna Paulina-Luna the last two quarters, which obviously I'm very proud of to out-fundraise the incumbent and someone like her. But I think that just goes to show that people are fired up and eager to get her out of office and are really excited about my candidacy and supporting me. So we know that we are on the right track. We've got the right trajectory in order to win this thing. And it's really important that we all coalesce together, not just in Tampa Bay, but across the state and across the country in order

to have proper leadership in this position. Yeah, you've been absolutely crushing it on the fundraising side. And, you know, as you said, for the last two quarters, you've outraised an incumbent, which is unbelievable. And you've also well outraised the other Democratic candidates. And you're also, as you sort of alluded to, you've been racking up endorsements left and right. What's your secret, Whitney? Well, I think my secret is, listen, I'm actually from the area. And I've worked with all of these leaders. They know me.

They've worked with me. They know my work ethic. They know that I can work with others, even if they are part of a different political party. and that I sincerely care about my community. And they know that I'm going to fight like hell for my community. Again, this is my home. I'm raising my two little girls here. My parents live here and will retire here.

Same with my in-laws. This is our home and we have to stand up and fight for it. And people see that. I've got that fire and passion and know that I'm not going to be someone who just goes to D.C. to chase culture war headlines and cause chaos and get rich off of it. But I sincerely care about our country. community and the people in it. And we need someone who's going to go and fight for the people and will actually pay attention to their concerns and their needs. And they know that about me and

they are excited and eager to support me to make sure that I win this thing. So let's talk about some of the issues that the campaign will be about and that are maybe in the in the front of the minds of a lot of not just what will hopefully be your constituents, but residents all across the state, as you said, and all across the country. Abortion is going to be on the ballot in Florida in November. in the form of a proposed amendment that would enshrine reproductive rights and freedoms in the state constitution. I am assuming the thought is that besides obviously being super important in its own right, but that this will also hopefully drive Democratic turnout, especially considering that a six-week abortion ban was recently signed by Governor DeSantis and takes effect in a couple of days. Right, Andy. Well, this was an issue that was going to be a big part of our campaign no matter what happened with the six-week ban or the ballot measure.

Well, the six-week ban comes into effect tomorrow, Wednesday. So we know that this is obviously a total ban. The six-week is just a number, but doesn't really mean anything because most women don't realize that they're pregnant by then. But we know from the very beginning, and part of the reason why I decided to run was, as cliche or corny as it sounds, rocking my two-year-old daughter to sleep, thinking about the fact that she's growing up with fewer rights than I did, that I knew I had to stand up and do something about that.

for my daughters, for the women in our community, for our families. And the majority of people, especially my constituents, but Florida residents believe that women deserve the freedom to make their own health care decisions without a politician telling them what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I mean, this six-week ban is going to be horrifying because previously we had a 15-week ban, and there were women coming to Florida from surrounding states who were seeking reproductive health care.

And now that Wednesday, when the six-week ban goes into place, the entire southeast of the country will not have access to this care. Women will die. I mean, you're going to hear these stories that there's a woman here in Florida who recently, because of the 15-week ban, she was told that her child would not make it after it was born, that it would be a still-born. And she could not travel. She couldn't afford to travel to seek the reproductive health care that she needed. So she was forced to carry to term, this child that she knew would not survive, forced to birth the infant. And then it was born blue. It wasn't crying.

It was just gasping for air and died 90 minutes later in her arms. I mean, what the hell are we doing? We are not providing women and families with the health care, life-saving care that they need for themselves and to be able to reproduce in the future because they want to have children. So this is an issue that I'm incredibly fired up about and part of why I decided to run because, again, our rights are being taken away. And people like Anna Paulina Luna, she calls herself a pro-life extremist. She supports a national abortion ban without the exception of rape, incest, or life of the mother. We cannot have dangerous people like her in Congress because whether or not Amendment 4 gets approved when it's on the ballot in November, we can still have people like Luna in a federal position who can put in a national band,

which would obviously supersede what happens at a state level. So this is a very important race because we have to make sure that we get far-right extremists like her out of office. Yeah, something I heard you say that really struck me that's, you know, along these lines but actually goes much further, is you said that you believe America is failing its families. Talk about that for a few minutes. Part of my personal experience was what lit a fire in me to run for office, Andy, was having a baby myself. I remember holding my newborn and receiving the medical bills. And I turned to my husband and said, you know, I know that we'll be able to figure this out.

But how do other people do this? How do single parents start families? How do families working minimum wage jobs start families? How is this how we start families in America, the medical bills? the lack of paid parental leave, the lack of affordable child care. I remember being three months pregnant and my co-worker said, you better get on waitless now for child care was when you go back to work at 12 weeks. It's going to be hard to find.

The child care wait lists were two years long for infant care. And I don't understand how as a nation we can say that we are four families. When we are the only developed country that does not provide the support, you know, we concentrate on these really important issues, like mental health, crime, substance abuse, incarceration. But what are we doing to prevent people from getting to that place if we don't support them from the very beginning? I feel very strongly that there is more we can be doing for our people

and especially our families who are meant to be the pillars of this country instead of just throwing them in a ditch and expecting them to claw their way out of it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, like I said, the way you phrased it really struck me that we're failing our families. I think that's such a good way of putting it and such a sad state of affairs. And it obviously goes beyond the health care and reproductive freedoms. And it gets into things like education and job cuts and stuff like that.

And Anna Paulina Luna has been just horrible on all of this. Absolutely. I mean, like I said, especially here in my district, working in public transportation, working on connecting people to affordable housing, connecting them to jobs, connecting them to employees, connecting them to health care. People are struggling. They need costs lowered. And Luna repeatedly threatens to do what, shut down the government.

Right. They need insulin costs lowered. And Luna opposes insulin caps. They need lower drug prices and she supports raising them. Seniors need support. And she wants to cut Social Security and Medicaid. People need affordable housing and she wants to cut rental assistance. She is completely opposed to.

anything that is going to support people. So she's very dangerous, not just for my district, but for our country. And we need somebody in office who's actually going to fight to better people's day-to-day lives and help them meet their basic needs. She also, and this just boggles my mind about Republicans, she is opposed to laws that would get rid of junk bank fees, as they call them. That is such a no-brainer to me. And it really shows where your head is at if you can't even get it together to say, yeah, this is bad. We need to get rid of it. Absolutely. Well, like I said, she's just focused on culture war headline chasing, whatever she can do to get the media and press to get attention without actually addressing the issues. I mean, she's a member of the Freedom

Caucus. And you said it yourself, Andy, that she's one of the most dangerous members of Congress. And, you know, she even denies the 2020 election. I don't know if you're familiar with the children's book that she wrote. Yes, I was going to ask you about that. I could not believe this when it came out. It's a children's book about how the election was stolen. So it's an orange, a children's book of an orange that looks like Trump and a banana that looks like Biden and they're running a foot race. And the banana cheats to win the race. It's a children's book about how the election was stolen. So these are the issues that she's focusing on, UFOs, children's book about the election being stolen, you know, just shutting down the government, calling for, you know, the rest of the

of anyone who's not going to do anything that she wants them to. Instead of what our government was built to do was we have to work together to actually get things done. It reminds me of, you know, talking to my four-year-old and two-year-old, okay, you can't alt get everything that you want. You have to work together. And it just seems like a basic thing that needs to create a functioning government. And right now, she's just basically acting like she's going to take her ball and go home if she doesn't get her way. Yeah, I think you have more chance of, or a better chance of rationally explaining something to your four-year-old and two-year-old than you do to Anna Paulina Luna. I think you might be right. But sort of along those lines, I know that your district

has been sort of heavily gerrymandered by the Republicans, and I think it's like an R-plus-6 district. How tough does that make it for you? I mean, it's not going to be easy. Of course, that will be an uphill battle, but we definitely see a path to victory here. And the reason is a third of our voters are actually independence. So even though there are more registered Republicans than Democrats, we've got a third of voters who are independence. And people in my district, they really value their independence and they want to vote for someone who's going to get the job done. And we've been having a lot of great conversations. I mean, I've got moderate Republicans coming out to me saying, what can I do to help you? Because she does not represent the Republican

Party. She does not represent my ideals. And we know she's just too extreme for this district. And we've got a lot of support from the local voters who are just rallying behind us, signing up to volunteer and help in any way that they can. And we know that someone like myself who can sit down with others and empathetically listen to the issues that they care about and find a way for us. to find common ground because most of the time we agree on more than we disagree on. But someone, I think people do value, especially here in my district, they value someone who's going to empathetically listen to them and actually going to work to get the job done. And they see that she is not doing that.

She is not focused on the issues that they care about. And she's definitely not wanting to work with anybody across the aisle, let alone people on the left side of the Republican Party, the moderate Republicans. You know, my father is a Republican, and we have had many long conversations at the dinner table where he talks to me about his upbringing and his lived experiences and why he, you know, believes in certain policies and sees things in certain ways. And we have great conversations about, you know, well, have you thought about it from this perspective and how about this policy and how it can affect the things you care about? And like you said, Andy, we're not having those conversations anymore. It's just red versus blue, left versus right, Democrat versus Republican. I think people are tired of that.

They want unity. They want people to come together and they want community and they want someone who's going to fight for them, regardless of what label of party that they're associated with. Yeah, I get the feeling that maybe Congresswoman Luna doesn't spend a lot of time in the district. I think is an understatement of this. I mean, I don't think she did spend much time. in the district before she ran, if any at all, and she's definitely not spending time here. And what's interesting, like I said, about my experience working with our local elected officials,

it was very eye-opening to me to have that experience to see how important it is to get buy-in for projects at every level of government where there are grant matches and funding and different elected leaders need to agree on projects moving forward and compromises are made. It's so crucial. and it was very important for us to be able to have the current congressperson work with us in order to get things done. And that is just not happening at the moment. So the fact that I've got the relationships with our local elected, Democrats and Republicans, where I can come to them and say, tell me about what's going on in your city. Tell me about what constituents are telling you as a problem.

So how can we work together at every level to make sure that we are moving things forward and bettering people's day-to-day lives. And that's what we deserve. And that's what the job is in Congress. And again, is not happening. Yeah, no, it doesn't seem to be happening at all. And she is very clearly, as you have said multiple times correctly, she seems much more interested in pitching herself to the Fox News crowd than she does about the, you know, the residents of Pinellas County. Well, and Andy, I've even sat with Republican elected officials who say, Whitney, I don't have a relationship with her. I've maybe spent five, five total minutes with her. She doesn't come to the district. She doesn't answer their calls. And that is not the relationship that we need here in the

district with our congressperson. We need someone, like I said, who's going to fight for the district and really work with the community. So what's the next step for you? I know the primary on the Democratic side is coming up in August. Are there debates before that? Or how does that play out down there? I don't believe we're necessarily having any actual debates, although I would love to debate Anna Paulina Luna. I don't know if she would agree to do so. But of course, we're having candidate forums during the primary, but we are just keeping our, you know, nose to the grindstone and just making sure that we are preparing for the general election. We are very confident about the primary, but it's really important, like I said earlier, Luna did not have a primary. She is just saving her funds for the general election. And it's so,

crucial, like you said, in an R plus six district, that we all rally together in order to defeat her. So I'm really hoping, and that's already happening, like I mentioned, with the support of the local electives, and of course the fundraising we're receiving. We have to come together and rally now, not waiting until August, but now it's so important and crucial that we see that this is the most flippable congressional seat in the state of Florida because of how extreme Anna Paulina Luna is and because of how prepared and supported of a candidate I am. And we have to go head on and taking her on this November because we know we can win this thing, but we've got to make sure that we start early and rally together to do so. Whitney, thank you so much for joining us. Whitney

Fox is running for Congress in Florida's 13th Congressional District. And Whitney, I hope the next time we talk to you, it will be Congresswoman Fox. I really appreciate your time, Andy. And yes, My website, if anyone wants to learn more, is Whitney Fox for Congress.com. I highly encourage you go check out our race. Danielle Moody. Andy Levy. Hi, Danielle. It's a glorious summerish day here in New York.

So kick us off and keep the mood and spirits high. Who's your fuck that guy? You know, I can keep them high as high as his high heels. And that would be Governor Ron DeSays. and I'm certain that you're going to say to yourself, well, what did he do? And the question really is, what doesn't he do? That is so callous, that is so cruel, that is so awful. And so, as of late, it's been quiet over in the Florida front. I think that he's still been licking his wounds from his terrible, terrible fucking showing in the Republican primary. But he's back. He's back

and worse than ever. According to The Guardian, Florida has stripped roughly 12,000. 22,000, if not a little bit over, 22,000 children off of health insurance since January 1st. And here is what I'll read from the piece. Quote, Florida is continuing to callously strip health care coverage from thousands of children in lower income households in defiance of a new federal law intended to protect them. Since the 1st of January, more than 22,500 children have been disdemean, five hundred children have been disenrolled from Florida KidCare, its version of the children's health insurance program or CHIP that is jointly subsidized by states and the U.S. government for families with earnings just above the

threshold for Medicaid. And Governor DeSantis challenged the rule in federal court that he would need to follow in Tampa, arguing it makes CHIP an entitlement program that illegally overrides a state law requiring monthly payments of premiums. I mean, I got, again, for this bullshit party, the Republican Party as a whole that says that they are just so fucking pro-life, right? They care so much about children. No, they care about fucking fetuses.

Because when it comes to the health and well-being of actual living, breathing children, they will do everything that they can to kick them off of health care and make sure that they live in poverty and hunger. Because there is not a Republican governor that you can look at and say, oh, they really care, not one of them. And Ronda Santis is the prototype. Because when he does his fuckery in Florida,

all of the other states are like, hold my beer. Let me just see how much worse I can make it. They hate the poor. They hate children. They hate women. And people need to be very, very clear about that. There is nothing that is pro-life.

or pro-child about these Republicans or Ron DeSantis. And for that reason, him, the entire state of Florida, fuck those guys. In addition to everything you said, it's like they want to force women to have children. And on top of that, a huge talking point on the right is that white Americans have to have more kids. And, you know, we have to keep the demographics. We have to keep America majority white, which, by the way, it's not going to be very shortly. So they're out here urging Americans to have children. And then all they want to do is miseducate them and not give them access to health care and and cancel school lunches and stuff like that.

I mean, look, I'm not saying anything that we and a million other people haven't said a million other times. But it just, it really is every day they just, they show who they are and they show what they really mean. And it's just, yeah, fuck those guys. So Andy, how are you starting out this summary week in New York and in the states with your fuck that guy? Well, I want to talk about the Republicans who claim to not be for a federal abortion ban because I think they're all lying. And that includes people like Donald Trump who claims he would not sign a federal abortion ban. Of course he would. And that also includes now Mitch McConnell, who on Meet the Press this past weekend, he sort of got to his.

real point, I think maybe accidentally, because he talked about this needs to be a state's issue, but what he really means is, and this is what he said, he said, I don't think we'll get 60 votes in the Senate for any kind of national legislation. And that's what he really means. It's not that he doesn't want one. It's that he knows he probably couldn't get one with the current makeup of the Senate and the House. So we have to remember that when they sit there and tell you to your face that they do not support a federal abortion ban, that they are lying, and that Donald Trump in particular is lying when he says he wouldn't sign one. And that also, as we've talked about on this show before, that they will use other methods to get a federal abortion ban other than

passing legislation, such as invoking the Comstock Act, which they're already starting to do. And which is, you know, that argument has already been broached at the Supreme Court level. And a bunch of Republican senators and congresspeople have, have advocated. for using the Comstock Act to virtually ban abortion without having to pass an actual abortion ban. I don't really think our listeners need to hear this because they know, but I think it's important for them to make sure that other people in their lives who might not know get educated on this. And that anytime anyone says to you, well, but no, Republicans don't want a federal abortion ban. They absolutely do.

And they will do everything in their power to get one. anything they say to the contrary is it's just an outright lie and there's no other word to describe it other than an outright lie. So I just want to give a nice little fuck those guys to all of them. Yeah. It's exhausting. That's what I will add. Fuck those guys. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal.

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