The Daily Beast Podcast - White House Raging at Trump Health Crisis: Wolff

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Joanna Coles and Michael Wolff dig into the explosive Trump DOJ transcripts of Ghislaine Maxwell’s meeting with Todd Blanche and what they reveal about Jeffrey Epstein’s finances, Donald Trump’s anxieties, and more. From the talk in the White House of Trump “keeling over” and the President’s obsession with Ghislaine Maxwell, the conversation unpacks Trump’s paranoia, monied moves, and lingering ties to Epstein’s world. They also examine the mounting worries over Trump’s physical decline, from swollen ankles to his unsteady gait, that fueled private panic among his aides. With fresh Epstein details overlooked by the mainstream media found within Maxwell’s proffer, Wolff explains how Trump’s past scandals keep colliding with his present. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Joanna Coles, and this is... You're going to make me do this again. I am going to make you do it again, Michael Wolf. Inside Trump's Head. Where Trump's chronicler, Michael Wolf, who's written not one, not two, but four books on Donald Trump, and me, from The Daily Beast, go to a very deep, dark place, damp place to inside Trump's head. I can't believe it. I've been out of the country for five days, and I've missed. John Bolton's house being raided four days after he was on the day.

Beast podcast, Trump's jihad against the Fed, and in particular black women in trying to fire Lisa Cook. And I've missed a new bruise on his hand and the terrible makeup camouflage he's been using to hide it. And most importantly, the release of the Gillen-Mexwell transcript, which is the most fantastic reading of the summer. Put down your John Grisham, you're Michael Connolly or Colleen Hoover, this is the book, or this is the transcript, I'm already referring it to as a thriller that you want to read. It's actually called a proffer. A proffer. I know. What even is a proffer? They keep saying this is the proffer.

Well, it's a proffer. You're offering something. And in fact, I mean, you're offering information. But in fact, in this, she is offering something more, something specifically to Donald Trump. It should be called, not the proffer or the deposition, but perhaps the gift. The gift. All right. Well, we have no time to waste.

Or the grift, of course. Michael, what are you hearing about Donald Trump's health? I did notice the extra bruise and the photograph that the White House put off, the official photograph they put out with him and the South Korean premiere, and they'd cut him off at the ankle so we couldn't see his ankle spilling over the shoes. Well, the only thing that I'm hearing about his health is everyone is irritated that people are focusing on his health. I mean, the people around him. Because, and actually this makes some sense, what they see is Donald Trump always moving ahead, a man who doesn't stop.

Inexhaustible. Inexhaustible. Well, he feels inexhaustible. But he doesn't. On the other hand, they acknowledge one day he will. just go over. They say that? Yeah.

How interesting, that's their perspective, that he will just keel over. They have no idea. The idea that he will fade, that he will become sick, that he will be mortal in that way that we all are, they actually don't accept. He will stop at one point. I see that. I see that because he does have still an enormous amount of energy, as we talked in our last time together, he has.

inexhaustible ability to speak. And he is that, you know, because he is from another age, I mean, when I grew up, people would say, would say, what happened to say, oh, he dropped dead. And in my mind, I always had that walking along the street, boom, gone. Well, interestingly, that didn't happen to Jeffrey Epstein. There is so much in the Gillen-Maxwell transcript. I read it cover-to-cover on a flight on the way back frantically, sort of, of John Stewart like making comments all over it.

But one of the things that I was most interested by, pruriently, I will say, is the fact that Gillen Maxwell, unreliable narrator, says that Jeffrey Epstein couldn't really have sex. So this is a sex story with two people who can't have sex. Well, two things. Before we go there, exactly, I think we should go to the top line on this, which is what she delivered for Donald Trump. I mean, that's why they were there.

So Todd Blanche, number two in the Justice Department, Trump's former lawyer, former personal lawyer, actually, you might say, continuing personal lawyer in his job as the number two in the Justice Department, rushes down to the prison where Glein Maxwell is serving 20 years. rushes down to speak to a convicted sex offender. Well, sex trafficker, 20 years for sex trafficking. Yes, please. And I think that this is one of the things that you come away from reading this transcript. And I just want to say just a pet peeve that many people are reporting on this transcript, on this deposition. but the truth is,

journalists, my colleagues, your colleagues report on depositions and they never read them. Well, I did read this. I did read it. Well, actually, it's incredibly compelling. I would recommend everyone, go read this. This is the summer thriller. This is better than any Michael Connolly book you will read.

It's better that it's like a Dickensian novel of a tragic female figure at the center of it. Let's think about this. Whose father was a massive old man. Poor little rich. It's a poor little rich girl story. Yeah, it's a classic poor little rich girl story. You cannot actually imagine how bad things are that happen to this person. She may deserve them.

But again and again, there's one point she talks about she was on suicide watch. For two years. And they wake her up every 15 minutes. You can't wait. No, we've really read this thing. We have really read this thing. this thing, but also just the echoes of it, that her father dies in suspicious circumstances because he's a con man. Her boyfriend then dies in suspicious circumstances, which she has a,

you know, which she has a theory on why he died, which we'll go into. Anyway, I interrupted you, but go on. Okay, I think. Can I just point out we also have exciting new mugs? Extremely excited. We've had lots of comments on YouTube about our design for Trump's head, which was by Rebecca Tullis, who's one of our designers, at the beast. Good job, Rebecca. Thank you. We love it on the mug. Thank you. Okay, so the top line, what she delivers for Trump. And let me just say that the other thing I'm hearing from the White House this weekend is that Trump has been calling around to people and saying, what should I do about Maxwell? Now, to interpret that means he knows what he should do and probably,

or has already decided what to do. So when people are asked that question, they respond, you should definitely give her a pardon. Now, let's get to why he should give her a pardon, because she delivered. She absolutely delivered. I might have to do a bit of reading.

She went down. I might do a dramatic reenactment. Okay, I'm counting on it. Right. So she did basically three things for Trump. I mean, she said, I never saw him do anything inappropriate. Never, never. But even more importantly, then she went on and said, well, he's such a great guy. Right. And amazing journey that he got to be president. Everything. Everything. I mean, just a, this is, you know, this is a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a. monument, an American monument, which is exactly what Trump was.

Even Trump's friends don't think he's never done anything inappropriate. I would like to stop you there and do a quick, dramatic reenactment. We do have similar accents, not entirely the same. And I noticed that she was doing that thing that people do where they drop their voice and they speak slowly. So I'm going to do that for affect here. So Todd Blanche says, what did you observe as far as President Trump and his relationship with you or Mr. Epstein, Gillen. Well, I just want to say for my relationship with President Trump, relationships a big word, but I want to say that I met him, or I believe I may have,

because of my father in the 90s. And I just want to say I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming president now, and I like him and have always liked him. And so that is the sum and the substance of my entire relationship with him. Well, as I say, she delivered. delivered and? She also delivers something else and delivered something else that actually might be, Trump likes a compliment and he likes flattery, of course. But if that also can put money in his pocket, that is, that's the ultimate. I think I know what you're talking about.

And she says that, okay, brief recap, this all began Galane, Galane's presence at this moment because the Wall Street Journal publishes a birthday greeting. Trump has theoretically sent Jeffrey Epstein on the occasion of his 50th birthday in 1993. As soon as the Wall Street Journal published this story, two things happened. First thing, Donald Trump sued Rupert Murdoch, who owns the Wall Street Journal and the Wall Street Journal, saying this was completely untrue. For $10 billion, right? Yes, of $10 billion, of course. And then the second thing that happened

is that within the White House, they understood this to be a leak from the Maxwell camp, a shot across the bow, and Trump's lawyer, the number two in the Justice Department, Todd Blanche, rushes down to Florida to interview her. She,

says, now, I never saw a birthday reading from Donald Trump. And just remember, she was the one who organized this birthday book. Okay, hold please, dramatic reading, a dramatic reenactment. So, Gillesne talks about, I'm just going to do a little bit, just to set it up. So my mom did a birthday book for my father at his 60th. And when I, Epstein would talk about his 50th, and He said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I just want to interrupt to say that they did release the audio from Galane, but Joanna is much better. Thank you.

Thank you. I did listen to some of the audio. And I said, well, there are some nice things. There are nice things. My mom did this book for my dad. And he said, I love that idea. Classic man, no idea what to do for his birthday. So she calls people to get them.

And then Todd Blanche, and this is very early on in the interview, process too. For anybody interested, it's page 179 this comes up in the first day, right? So they get straight to it. He says, do you think the articles, do you remember seeing that book or any portion of the letters in your discovery in New York? And she goes, oh, in my discovery, President Trump, there was nothing from President Trump. I'm just going to repeat that. There was nothing from President Trump. So that's my dramatic reason. No, no. I mean, this is, This is a gift, incredible gift, which now, I'm sure, leaves the Wall Street Journal and even Robert Murdoch quaking a bit. I mean, they have now lost a pillar of their defense.

Except that the Oversight Committee, led by James Comer, have subpoenaed the birthday book. So won't it be in there? Well, I'm sure, I'm sure it, oh, good. that's a good point. So, good point. Thank you. I'll take it. Very good.

So it may see, if they get this, yes. Right. This should be required reading for every law student too because a deposition, basically people can say what they like, right? She has an incredible drive by here about the paternity of a child, which we should also come to. We will. And again, this issue of depositions in this entire,

Epstein's story. And one of the reasons it is, there is no resolution, quite the opposite, in any aspect of this story, is because it is a story all by depositions. Depositions are by nature an incredibly one-sided account. In matter of fact, they can be basically anything. And you are, the media is protected from any, from publishing anything. thing that is said in a deposition. So we have these untrustworthy versions of this whole story compounded again and again and again. And obviously Galane is now adding to this. This is her deposition, entirely one-sided, her defense.

I mean, the only thing that's two-sided is that she has. clearly understands the advantage in agreeing with Donald Trump. Right. And there are all sorts of clues. I mean, I was just incredibly interested by the money thing. So on the first day, Todd, I mean, first, and then also we have the number two in the Justice Department, who is unbelievably obsequious to someone who has been convicted for 20 years for sex trafficking. I mean, he's basically like, no, no, we don't have to.

Don't worry. I mean, she's so vague about dance. I mean, this is a total T-part. party. You know, I mean, you can see them. They're, you know, they're, they are enjoying their acquaintance with each other. Well, it's just crazy. Hold on for a word from our sponsors. Oh, Michael, that was so smooth. And we're back discussing what else, Gillen, Maxwell, and Jeffrey Epstein. I'm just going to go back to this. I'm going to do another dramatic reading this time by Todd Blanche, where he's obviously got hauled up by one of the members of his team

because he says to her, so the day before, the first day he's got her to say that she earned somewhere between 25,000 and 250,000 a year working for Epstein, which he lets go. And then he says, okay, so I want to talk to you about, we talked a little bit yesterday about the financial part of your relationship with Mr. Epstein, kind of being on his payroll. starting at 25,000 and ending up at 250,000. There's, as you know, from your trial, there's banking information that shows a ton of money being sent to you from Mr. Epstein over the years.

And I think totaling something like $30 million, something like this. Why was the money sent to you? And she says, well, I believe, I don't have a full recollection. I'm not even sure. I mean, I ever saw what they accused me. of, but my belief is the money also contained money that was for a helicopter that I never owned and was never mine. I mean, what are you talking about? And then it goes on in incredible

detail about the fact she can't remember. Okay. And here's an important part. She denies that her father ever knew Jeffrey Epstein. Now, this is pivotal because there is reason to believe, very good reason to believe that Jeffrey Epstein and her father were engaged together in, in, let's nicely call him, business dealings. Right. And again, her father is a long story. From nothing, he builds a multi-billion, something near a billion-dollar media empire. Right. He owns the British Daily Mirror tabloid newspaper on Fleet Street. He owns Pergammon Press. He owns McMillan at one point.

Yes. He goes on to buy the Daily News in New York. He is a major, a major presence, a major media presence in the UK on a par with at that time, Rupert Murdoch. Right. They were very much rivals. And Rupert was on the right, Maxwell was on the left. And then Maxwell's empire comes crashing down because it turns out he has looted, looted. Let me repeat it, looted. Stolen, stolen. Yes, his company's pension fund. To the tune of half a billion pounds,

which back when this was, 30 years ago, was an extraordinary amount of money. It's still a large sum of money, but it was back then it was one of the biggest ever fraud. 35 years ago. 35 years ago. Yeah. And then he dies under mysterious circumstances off the back of his yacht called the Galane. Yeah. The Lady Galane.

Ah, yes. So at any rate, she denies. They never knew each other. But there is reason to believe that they certainly knew each other and that, in fact, his part of his money. And remember, the end was coming. He saw the end. Right, he could see the money running out. Everybody knew it was coming. And whatever money he had left would be taken from him. Right.

The theory is that an amount of, he took an amount of this money and offloaded it to Jeffrey Epstein. Right. And so therefore, the, um, the, um, the, the $30 million, the money that went from Jeffrey Epstein to Galane Maxwell, the theory is, let's emphasize the theory here. That Maxwell gave Epstein's money to look after Galen. And he returned this in the form of, well, a house. He bought her a house, a townhouse in New York, for instance.

But $30 million would, that would explain. a significant part of the $30 million. Right. And Todd Blanche says, oh, there was, you know, for example, you got $5 million in 2002. I mean, the obfuscating and also the idea that he would ask you what you got paid by Jeffrey Epstein,

and she would say, oh, up to $250,000, and forget to mention the $30 million is remarkable. Remarkable. So, and again, and this goes to the nature of depositions, but it also goes to the nature of this story that unreliable narrators are at every point in this story. And then there's another unreliable narrator here in Virginia Joufferi, right, who's got her memoir coming out.

Another thing I missed, the memoir, her publishers announced Knoff, that they would be bringing out her memoir in November, called, I think, Nobody's Girl. And now her family is saying, this isn't actually the book that she would want it to have told people. Right. Well, it's very confusing whose memoir this is. Virginia Jouffrey is dead. She committed suicide. Another tragic figure in the center of all this.

Completely tragic. And she has a collaborator or ghost writer. Amy Wallace. This seems to become her book and her, in her relationship with the publisher, the New York publisher Knav, which is interesting in itself, you know, one of the historically the most estimable publishers in New York. And her family is saying, no, no, no, that's not the story she wanted to tell. So again, we have this, okay, who's reliable here? But in addition, it's a very important point, and certainly Gellane,

takes this on in this, in her account although Virginia Jufre's name is redacted. Right, but it's clear she's talking about it. It is very clear who is here. And Virginia Joufrey, a fascinating figure in this because

in essence, much of the story, much of the Epstein story rests on her, which is to say the idea, the central idea that that Jeffrey Epstein was supplying girls to very powerful men and probably blackmailing them. I mean, this is from her account.

Really nobody else. And she has always been a problematic figure in this. I mean, she isn't used any of the trials. She has, she is not used, her testimony is not used because it's, you know, it's been troubling to a lot of people. And there's been gaps in it, you know, of her claiming, claiming Al and Tipper Gore were on the plane and on the island, which apparently, you know, is utterly untrue. And then her own personal problems. I mean, it's, that's, you know, again, and it's not to say that we know what's right or not here. We just know that she is yet another person in the telling of this tale in which you have reason to ask a lot of questions.

One of the things that's also interesting about the book is the massage culture that she talks about. You mean, the deposition. Sorry, sorry, I'm treating it as if it's a book. The deposition is. Her discussing Jeffrey Epstein's obsession with getting massages, his testosterone treatments. Well, even step before, because the one thing that jumped out on me is that she says both that Jeffrey Epstein has a heart condition so he can't have sex. Right. And then she adds, and she has a condition, condition unspecified, so she can't have sex.

So in the biggest sex scandal of the age, the two central protagonists can't, according to this account, have sex. So I wish we had a medical expert here because she does talk about the fact that once Jeffrey started taking Jeffrey, once Epstein as if I know him, that she does talk about Epstein taking testosterone, which she thinks leads to him needing more and more. nor massages. And at his peak, he was having three massages a day leading to three happy endings, I think we can say. And just let me interject there that throughout this deposition, she calls him Epstein. So this is a person who she knew well for almost 25 years. Theoretically, she called him by his first name during that time. Right. Well, she's clearly trying to distance herself, right? But if you have a heart problem and you're having three happy endings a day, isn't the danger point the happy ending?

Isn't the climax the bit where the heart's under most stress? Are you asking me? Well, I'm just asking you as a guy whether or not you know this stuff because I don't understand what the difference is between having a happy ending and having sex in terms of the pressure on the heart. Again, I hope this is a rhetorical question because I don't know. Because what, you don't know? No, no. Okay, so we need to investigate. Neither of them could have sex, which reminded.

But then there is the testosterone thing in which she says he starts taking testosterone at some point and his personality changes. Right, he becomes mean, she says. And in her account, basically pre-testosterone, he had a lot of massages, often from men or older women. They are not sexual in nature. is the implication of what she's saying. Well, and she also says that she was always looking for massas because she was a dangerous sports addict, and if she hadn't had lots of massages,

she claimed she would have been lame. No, well, this whole idea of massages being at the center of your life, that that is what life is for to the quest for a massage, a better and better massage. And she spends a lot of time talking about that that was her job to recruit new masseuses. Right, because Epstein wanted novelty, which was one of her arguments.

Yes, he wanted novelty, but I assume he wanted a, this was a connoisseur's quest also, for the perfect massage. Well, and I do think that, Massage therapy has become one of those things that people who are obsessed with longevity are obsessed by, right? Often I know several people who, you know, they like to play tennis every day and then they have an hour's massage. Well, yes, I know none of those people.

But I have heard tell and these are all, I mean, this is a preoccupation of the rich, obviously. Yeah, because massages are expensive. They're expensive and you have to have the time. and I suppose you have to have a place to do it. I mean, and it is this whole part of this spa culture. It's white lotus. It's white lotus. Is Donald Trump a massage person?

Does Donald Trump get massages? Well, that is a, there is a question. That question might unlock a lot of this. He doesn't look like he gets mass surgery. He never talks about getting that. Well, he doesn't seem like a person you would touch. In matter of fact of fact, I have an interesting story here. There was a person who worked on the apprentice for many years,

the sound man, who Trump came to be very dependent on and so dependent on that he paid for the tuition of the same. man's kid to go to private school in New York. Wow. The same private school where all of the Trump executives went. Didn't Alan Weissler? Yes, yes. So that too.

But this person described it to me. First thing, the disconcerting thing that when, you know, if you know anything, when you're wiring someone putting a mic up, you usually come up through the bottom of a shirt. but Trump would always, as this person approached to put the mic in, he would unbuckle and unzip his pants. And the entire set of the apprentice would as one recoil at this moment. Right. And then the sound man had to go in where other men...

But this wasn't a sexual thing. This was just an odd thing. Hold on one second while we just take these messages. And we're back discussing what else. Galane Maxwell is inside Donald Trump's head right now. Yeah, no, just an odd thing. That is so bizarre. That is such a bizarre story.

All right, can I go back to Gillen Maxwell saying that she actually became a banker? Because, again, I don't think that's something that anybody knew. Did you know she had a banking license? How could she... What does that even mean to have a banking license? Also, here's another example. example of something that you guys wouldn't have known about, I became a banker. I got my series 63, series 67 banking license and became a broker for like a new. And then, because I was

day trading, uh-oh, alert, everything I had day-traded with through an account, I think I was more lucky than smart. But I made quite a lot of money doing that. I'm sure you did, Gillen, I'm sure you did. And Todd Blanche says, well, like what? Like what? Like what? and she says that she, well, he says, you know, were you doing Apple when nobody liked Apple? And then she says that Jeffrey was constantly lending her money for business escapades, one of which was, I think for example, there were two gullwing Mercedes that they did with Mercedes and Astor and Martin. You can look it up. That's nice to the number two in the Justice Department.

You can look it up. They had doors that would come up like this. There were only a very limited number when they were made. so I knew that we could buy those and flip them right within 24 hours, for example. What is she talking about? Let me just a little digression. God knows how I end up in these places that I end up. But I was once almost in business with the Maxwell's sisters, Galane's sisters.

She has twin sisters, right? I think one of them lives in... Yes, Isabel and... Christine. And Christine is the one that lives in Texas near where Galan has been moved. They were, this was in the early years of the internet business. And they had a search engine company, a precursor to Google certainly and to even Yahoo. And it was called Magellan. Right. After the Explorer, a good name actually for a search company. And I also was in the internet business recounted in my book, Burnray.

I remember. And this actually chapter with the Maxwell sisters is recounted. Because it was a moment in which I was my, the various people working with me, the bankers promised that I was about to become fathomlessly rich. Here you are stuck as a writer. Here you are stuck on the Daily Beast podcast. But the deal was going to be. a merger with this company, Magellan, and then we were all going public,

and, you know, it was, happy days would be here forever. Except, and this was all, these internet days, all businesses were very precarious. Nobody was making money. It was, you know, everybody was trying to just hold on to the next event. But the banker, so we're having this meeting, and one of the bankers leaves the meeting, goes outside to the parking lot, and sees that all of the Magellan executives and the Maxwell sisters and their husbands are driving incredibly high-end vehicles. Of course they are. Which then promptly kills the deal. We're not doing business with them, said the banker.

So that's why you're not a multi-billionaire? That is, well, there are many reasons, but that is one. All right, so that seems... Blame it on the Maxwell's. Blaming it on the Maxwell's. I mean, we've had quite a lot today, haven't we? And I do urge people, I really urge people to go and read this transcript because it is, as we've said, it's better than any novel.

And it's actually, it's so much more interesting than any modern novel I can think of, actually. No, well, you know, modern novels are about an interior life. and domestic life or emotional life. And this is external. This is people out in the world, trying to trick the world, trying to survive the world, trying to survive their own

bad behavior in the world. Yeah, it really is. So I take your point, that the point of the transcripts is that Gillen Maxwell has given Donald Trump what he needed. One, she never saw him doing anything inappropriate with anybody to do with Epstein. And two, she has no recollection of soliciting the letter in the birthday book from Donald Trump. She has no memory of it. From her point of view, it doesn't,

the implication is it doesn't exist, that Donald Trump is correct that the Wall Street, Rupert Murdoch and the Wall Street Journal have made up this letter. So we should come back on Thursday in our next episode of Inside Trump's head and discuss whether or not we think she's going to get a pardon. And Donald Trump has pardoned way more people already in the first six months of his presidency than any of the presidents, the most recent presidents. And we should talk about the kind of people he pardoned. Right. January the 6th. Yeah. All right. So let's come back and talk about the pardon culture on Thursday. Great. And then we will also take comments from people because there have been a lot, not least, why is our backdrop look increased?

And it's a very good question, because I think it was made in the wrong fabric. And we are going to be addressing that. Hopefully we'll have our new one by Thursday. And I wish people could see how smart you are, because you have got a very nice linen jacket on, very nice suede loafers, no socks, very cool, and matching pants. Thank you. I should be complimenting you.

No, you don't need to. Don't need to. It's all good. But I just wanted people to have some background. Have we covered everything? The thing that we did not cover, but I think it's worth pointing out, is that we were number five in news podcasts. We were on Apple, on Apple. And the Daily Beast podcast, which you've been instrumental in helping us with, was broke the YouTube top 100. So congratulations. Congratulations to you. Thank you.

Thank you all for making it possible. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends, with your enemies, with Trump's friends, with Trump's enemies. And you can subscribe to The Daily Beast for minute by minute details on how much makeup is he putting on those bruises. I mean, he really is going to have very messy hands because he's got makeup on both hands now. And then there was a moment where he realized the makeup wasn't blending in. I can, White House, if anybody's listening, I can help you with the blending. in of the makeup on the skin. He sort of sat like this so that you couldn't see it.

He does his own makeup. He does his own makeup. Okay. Another point that he doesn't like people touching him. So I don't know about the massages. But I think we ought to call the White House and ask them. And ask them. What are we asking him?

Does he like massages? Does he get a massage? How often? Who gives them? How much does he pay? On it. On it. All right.

If you have been, thank you for joining us. Thank you to our production team, Devin Roderino, Anna von Erson, and our editor, Jesse Milwood. And as our first lady, always implores us to do, be Beast. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at thedailybeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline.

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