The Daily Beast Podcast - Who Will Trump Pardon Before He Leaves Office?

Episode Date: November 27, 2020

The end of the Trump administration is like the end of a season finale of the most batshit Netflix show. Everyone has questions of how it will finally end, including one big one: Will Trump pardon himself before leaving office? Some theories predict VP Mike Pence could assume the presidency for just enough time to pardon Trump. But, Rick Wilson doesn’t see that happening. In this members-only bonus episode of The New Abnormal, Rick and co-host Molly Jong-Fast do a Q&A with producer Jesse Cannon to answer some of these burning questions about the Trump administration and their performance as political commentators (“I got wrong a lot,” says Molly. Rick also has three major predictions he got wrong during the election cycle.) But one thing they’re sure of, is that the chances of Pence pardoning the president are extremely unlikely. The two think Trump pardoning himself is more likely, but there’s a big caveat to that. “The essential thing of a pardon is it involves the admission of a crime. And so he has to admit that he violated the law,” says Rick. Rick and Molly also discuss why Biden’s ‘“boring” Cabinet picks (unlike Trump’s) will piss off Mitch McConnell: “He's picking people who are not these enormously, you know, controversial or dramatic figures. And that's okay.” Plus! The hosts talk about their favorite crimes of the Trump administration, and speaking of crime, “I think we're going to hear about Jared for a long time.” And will there be a President Dan Bongino in 2024?? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi folks, it's Rick Wilson, and welcome to The Daily Beast's The New Abnormal. Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, a left-wing pundit and editor at large at The Daily Beast. I'm also an editor at The Daily Beast, a former Republican political strategist, best-selling author, and full-time troublemaker. We're here to have fun, sharp conversations with some of the smartest people in media, politics, business, and science that help make what's happening in the country and the world clearer. I'll try to keep Rick to the minimum number of F-bombs and try to keep our... kids, pets, and other wildlife sounds from invading our respective bunkers. Hello, new abnormal listeners. This is Jesse Cannon here.

And today we have a special episode where Rick and Molly are going to answer some questions about the 2020 election. Hi, guys. Hi, Jesse. Hey, Molly. So I want to first do the question that I think everybody who is a responsible person who discusses politics to do, which is say, did you get anything wrong? Did you think anything that was totally wrong about this election season?

I got wrong a lot, and the thing I got the most wrong was, and I wrote a piece that Joe Biden should drop out right before he won the nomination. He had lost whatever it was. It was two first states, and he was just about to win South Carolina. Ah, I remember that. Yeah, so that was the thing that was the stupidest that I've ever been. So, yes, I'm amazing. Rick? One thing I got wrong was I thought Bernie would be a lot more problematic for Biden than he was. was during the campaign. He was a really good, sir. I thought he would, I thought he would snipe from the edges and sort of do a repeat of 2016. And I think that was one of the reasons that Biden was able

to get firmly parked in the middle with a lot of the perceptual, you know, aspects of how he was in the campaign. He didn't, he didn't fall into the trap of having to like, trying to back and fill on policy stuff. Right. So I think, I think I got, I got Bernie's participation wrong. I also got wrong that at some point there would be a diminishing returns level on the sort of alternate reality maga world and we're still living through it right now yeah i mean at some point you were thinking i thought well you know even like fox is going to have to say listen you know the president's not telling the truth this is crazy town do not get on the train but they wrote it until the very end. I mean, and even now, like the small bits of daylight you're seeing,

they're really insignificant in the big picture. But yeah, that was something I would say that I thought that there would be a moment where they would get... He would lose them? He waited, and they waited until basically about a week before the election, he was getting very cranky about Fox. And he's gotten increasingly cranky about Fox. Yeah, I'll say. Yeah. So, anyway, next. What do you wish Dems did different during the 2020 election cycle? Look, I'm going to say three things I wish they'd done differently. Voter registration. Voter registration.

And are you out of your fucking minds? Voter registration. Right. Because this is one of those Potemkin villages that often appears in Democratic campaigns and then doesn't happen. Now, in reality, that's one thing, I wish they'd done differently. The second thing that we have looked at post hoc, and it's a sort of thing you couldn't have known. Right. they even with COVID probably should have done some door knocking.

Yeah, well, that's what we've seen, right. And everyone thought it was a terrible idea, including me. I'm not going to dispute that in the slightest. And so they stayed away from it. And they stayed away from it for all kinds of correct reasons. But, you know, we looked back at the very limited experiment we did with direct voter contact with door knocking. And it was, it was, you know, markedly more effective, even in the COVID era.

And so that's something that, you know, again, there were a million reasons not to do it, and they were all correct reasons not to do it, but I wish they'd done it. I mean, the recklessness of the Trump people doing it was probably, you know, contributing to super spreader events. But in a normal non-COVID year, that commitment needs to be ratcheted way back up there. Yeah. And the last thing I wish they had done in the cycle for their candidates out in the world was been a little, stricter and a little more directive on how they encouraged fundraising flows. God bless Amy McGrath. She's a great person, but she was never going to beat Mitch McConnell. And that $80 million or $88 million sure could have gone to Maine or Iowa or Alaska. Yeah. I mean, that segues into what I think they did wrong, which is picking these candidates who lost congressional races to run for Senate races.

and that's Amy McGrath and that's M.J. Hagar. And that's, you know, that's a bunch of candidates where they were sort of John Osoff is another one. I hope he wins. But, you know, those are people where they were sort of repurposed. And I feel like candidates that we see like, you know, Warnock, people where they, you know, are from where they, you know, they're sort of a star. We've seen that has sort of done better for Democrats. So I'm, so I'm, so I wish. that there was more of that. And also, there's this fundamental question, which people have said to us, and it's sort of cynical, but I wish Democrats would think a little bit more like this, which is, and everyone's getting mad at me for saying this, but it's true. We spend all this time talking about why Trump won and why Trump and why people were drawn to Trump, but you have to calculate that some of this was because he was famous. I don't think some of it was because he was famous.

I think 95% of it was because he was famous. And Democrats should fucking run celebrity. Like, they don't have to do it all the time, but certainly there are states. If Matthew McConaughey wants to run for Governor Texas, I'm totally down for it, bro. I think he should. I'm serious as a heart attack, man. Yeah. It would be, it'd be the, that'd be the tits, babe.

You just want to do an impression. You didn't have any interest in Matthew McGahnney. Listen, I'm in the Rick Wilson from Prussian fan club, personally. Do your Bill Clinton. because that's your best impression. That is your best one. Yeah. Well, Molly, I think the mystery

that most women haven't really delved into even at this time. So bad. It's really fundamental. And it's not. It's not what can you give. We're starting to see some Biden cabinet picks. What are you guys feeling so far

about what he's doing with these cabinet picks? Are you pleased or are you not pleased? I think so far he's been very strategic about these picks. Yeah, explain that to us. I think there are two big messages here. First off, he's relying on people that he knows from prior iterations, either as VP or U.S. Senator, and people who are highly qualified. What he's not picking out so far are real firebrands who are going to end up running into the Mitch McConnell meat grinder.

Right. And that's really smart politics because what it means is that it's a lot harder for Mitch McConnell, to train wreck, you know, a Tony Blinken, then it might have been for him to deal with a Susan Rice, who would immediately get like the Benghazi conspiracy guys all, you know, they would be in a frenzy on that right away. And part of that's because they're boring, or what is the, why? Or because they've already had Senate approval?

After the experience of people in the cabinet like Steve Mnuchin and the clown car of various, you know, Ben-Car. arson, all these other people, you want people who are going to face up to the big mission of the first two years of Biden's administration. Right. That mission is dealing with COVID. He's going to want people who can make sensible, serious decisions on health care, on fiscal policy, on monetary policy, on putting forth a budget that can get through the House and the

Senate. He's going to have an awful lot of work to do. And he's picking people who are not. these enormously, you know, controversial or dramatic figures, and that's okay. That's really, really a whole lot of okay. Because these people are going to have to go through Senate approval, do you think that's why he's doing it? I think that's a major factor why he's doing it. And including things, you know, like he's put John Kerry on the National Security Council as a special ambassador for climate. Who was that in the Trump world? Eric?

Eric scumms? I mean, who did that in Trump world? I believe during the Trump administration, that was handled by Steve Bannon's second polo shirt. Right, exactly. I mean, the embassy for climate, I think, you know. Right. The guy who threw the plastic bottles out the window. It's like, Erica, I could turn the air conditioning down. So what was your favorite crime of the Trump administration?

Do you guys, either of you guys have a favorite? Scott Pruitt, moisturizer, used mattresses. tactical polo shirts, skips. You know, I think you're just batting. Ma'i, I think you're not batting high enough on this one. Scott Pruitt's whole job, and then he employed Hugh Hewitt's son. Listen, I got you. I feel you. But I have to say, if you're going for straight up criming in the administration, you've got to go to Jared.

But we don't know half this shit, Jared did. This is a guy who used the intelligence apparatus of this country. to assess which foreign powers in the Middle East he should browbeat to give his family a giant loan. I got to say, that is some A-tier corruption right there. You know, I joked in some article or something. I said, if you're going to be corrupt, make it with a B instead of an M before the Iliant, okay? But don't you think there's going to be a lot more about Jared to come out? Oh, God, yeah.

Right. Oh, I think we're going to hear about Jared for a long time. Yeah. There's a lot of articles popping out just today. The Trump world is going to have a world of shit. Yeah. A world of shit going forward. It's delicious.

And not to plug my own piece, but I just wrote a piece like five minutes ago in The Beast about how, like, Avonka can no longer control the pieces about her. And how that for her is just... I love that. Yeah, you can retweet it. I shall. No pressure. No pressure. Love you. Mean it.

But you do see, like, the wheels are coming off. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So who is someone you guys think really covered 2020 well but doesn't get enough credit for it? Jonathan Lemire. Who's that? I don't know. I don't know who that is.

Tell us who it is. It's AP. I think Jonathan, he broke a lot of stories. He had a great crisp analytical writing style this year. I just, I really enjoyed his work this year. I also think Shannon Petty Pee. is criminally underrated as a reporter. I think she's fantastic.

Every administration has pardons at the end of it. Do you guys have any predictions or who's going to get the grace of his small hands? Everyone, everyone in the world who's a Republican and who's done something bad? Berkman and Wool. They did? Free Jacob Wool!

No, actually, they're fucked because, oh, their crimes so far are state. crimes. Oops. He can't preemptively pardon himself, right? Okay. This is an untested legal matter in the modern era. Right. So I have been told by several very smart constitutional scholars that it is not doable, but if he does it, there's no precedent. So it's going to go to court and be tested for a gigillion years. So I think he will pardon himself. but it's also an imaginary pardon. It's like me saying my official title is the Lord Emperor of the Scepterd southern aisles of the Florida Keys. It doesn't make it real. Look, the essential thing of a pardon is it involves the admission of a crime.

And so he has to admit that he violated the law. So I don't think he can really do it. And I seriously doubt there's going to be a flimflam where on the morning of the 19th, Mike Pence is president for six hours. and he pardons Donald Trump. I just don't see how that happens. Yeah, I feel like he's not giving up that presidency until it's ripped from his little hands.

No. By the way, I just have to say this. I just, this is breaking news. Jesse, I'm sorry. I know I'm not supposed to break news. I'm reading this headline. Wait, why are you not supposed to break news? Well, it's a, it's, this episode's airing on the weekend.

Oh, yeah. I just have to say this. This may already be a gigantic thing by the time that this episode airs. Uh-oh. Dan Bongino floats 2024 if Trump isn't on the ballot. Quote, I will consider entering politics again. You know, I would say that that promise and or threat is like an 85-year-old, obese German banker with a young and beautiful lover. He may consider entering her.

Oh, yeah, this is definitely not getting air now. Oh, no. Oh, great. It's horrible. My life just flash before my eyes. Okay. Okay. We're back to civil conversation again.

I mean. Oh. All right. I'm going to round this out with three nice questions. Okay. How do you think Biden will surprise people? Biden will surprise people by being able to get more done than we think he will. That's my guess.

Biden will surprise people by being surprisingly competent on the mechanics of running a government in a time of a pandemic where we need a competent president who is not a raging nitwit. And as he helps deploy the vaccine into the world, I think it would be a meaningful and smart thing for this country to show that a president can accomplish things that are practical and mechanical and technical. that don't involve, you know, going out every day and blustering and screaming and beating your chest like you're some sort of wild animal. That's good. What? What? Wow, I can't believe that's the one I'm getting shit for. Wow.

What's the best part of it? It could be food. I don't think they're going to give it where we are where we are, but the mashed potatoes, the sweet potatoes with the marshes. I only like candy, though. People have heard your candy crush ads, they know. You're candy crushing it. I will say this. I just harvested sweet potatoes from the garden.

I got like 30 pounds of them. It's crazy. Will you make them with marshmallows, though? No, I will not, because it's an abomination that is reviled by all right-thinking food people. You're the worst. Marshmallows are saved merely for the Ambrosia salad. Oh, yes. You definitely are from Florida.

I don't make Ambrosia salad. That too is an abomination. I was going to say, that feels off-brand to me. That feels real off-brand for me. It's super off-brand. You put the marshmallows in the jello mold. My favorite part of Thanksgiving is the fried turkey, which I will be frying. Oh, we're going to risk house.

I am a pro-am turkey friar. Ooh. Do you remember when Sean Hannity did the ad with the turkey friar? No, but now I'm going to look on the YouTube. It's really good. I mean, it's not good. It's bad, but it's interesting. Oh, my God.

I just want to say one more thing about Thanksgiving in the year 2025. I don't think it's 20. When President Bongino is pardoning the turkeys? When does Trump pardon those turkeys? It was today. Was it today? It was Monday. Well, it was Monday.

Was naming the one corn to own the lips because it'd bring up Biden's log-lost Fred Codepop? I believe it was a corn and cob was to actually own Jacob Wool. To quote the internet wit, went, I'm not known, he said as he shrank into a corn cop. One of the greatest tweets of all time. Truly. So what are you guys thankful for? I am thankful for that the vaccine is coming.

Oh, I win. I got the best one. You did? That was a really good one. I'm thankful for science that's getting us out of the. this thing and that there's an end date. I mean, that's a big deal. And even though this is going to be a very dark winter, help is on the way. I'm thankful that America's been resilient enough to vote Donald Trump out of office. Yeah. It ain't over yet, kids, but it's a damn good start.

On that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking with smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science who will help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. We're just getting started and don't want you to miss an episode. If you'd like to follow us on Twitter, I'm Molly JongFest and he's the Rick Wilson. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you again on the next episode. Want more great listens?

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