The Daily Beast Podcast - Why Everyone's Talking About Gwyneth Paltrow

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Author Amy Odell joins host Joanna Coles for a sharp, funny, and deeply revealing conversation about the woman who launched a thousand jade eggs—Gwyneth Paltrow. Odell spent three years interviewing over 220 sources for her new biography 'Gwyneth', in which she’s spills everything: from Goop’s rise and questionable wellness claims to Paltrow’s high-profile love life, accidental class war commentary, and surprisingly savvy business instincts. Is Gwyneth Paltrow the original influencer? What does she really believe? And how did a candle turn her into a meme? Coles and Odell unpack the cultural power—and cringe—of a woman who shaped what it means to be a modern celebrity, whether we like it or not. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Just talk a little bit about the darker side of Goop. Well, if you have a chronic illness that needs serious medical attention and you follow this advice to drink celery juice, your illness could get a lot worse. So this is the fear that doctors and experts who I interviewed have is that Goop is sowing a distrust of Western medicine and established science. I'm Joanna Cole's chief content officer of The Daily Beast,

and you are, I hope, in your kitchen, cooking a gluten-free goop recipe for pasta because today we're taking a tiny break from the onslaught of crazy around Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump and the scandal that will not let the president out of its grasp to talk about another polarising figure,

Gwyneth Paltrow, with her biographer Amy O'Dell who spent three years reporting on Guinness and spoken to more than 200 people about her. I can't wait to get into it. We'll be back. on Saturday with Michael Wolfe. And I will challenge him with some of your comments that I interrupt him too much.

We'll get into Trump's head again on Saturday. But for now, we're going deep into Gwyneth Paltrow's head with Amy O'Dell. Amy O'Dell. I'm so excited to have you here in the Daily Beast podcast studio because we used to work together a cosmopolitan. Yes. And I think we're going to talk about something that we might have talked about when we were at cosmopolitan. Well, we are.

we're going to talk about Gwyneth Paltrow and your book on her. What is it called? What's the official title? Gwyneth the biography. Gwyneth the biography. It's Gwyn like PIN. Okay. Okay.

I never thought it was anything else. Okay. Some people call her Gwynnus. Gwen, Gwen. Oh, that's so strange. People have gotten corrected over the course of history. You mean by her? Because they've been friends.

By her or people who work for her. Okay. But to be fair, I don't like it when people call me Joanne. I would correct them if they call me Joanne. Sure. So just set the record straight. And I have to confess, I love Gwyneth Paltrow. I actually tried to do a magazine with her at one point when we were at Hearst together.

And I thought a Goop magazine would be a great idea. I think she has tremendous style. I think she's a terrific actress. And I once needed help with a young entrepreneur I was working with. And Gwyneth was unbelievably responsive. And I really like what she's done. but when I was telling people that you were coming in today and I was going to talk to you about it,

a couple of them just went off and went, oh my God, I can't stand Gwyneth Paltrow. And I actually still, I mean, I'm not saying I would take medical advice from her, but I have bought lots of things from Goop. I like her aesthetic and I don't understand why she is so polarizing. So please explain. So I think the reason she's so triggering to people. Triggering, good word.

Yeah, it's because she has spent her entire life in this very elite, glamorous milieu. Her godfather is Steven Spielberg. Her father was Bruce Paltrow, very successful producer, mother, Blythe Danner, one of the great actresses of all time. And she grew up around movie stars. She had a bi-coastal childhood going from New York to L.A. Sounds heaven. It sounds heaven. Always had money in a financial cushion and has never known anything.

anything else her whole life. And I think what happens with her is she makes these comments where she kind of tries to get on the level of the average person. But she just can't because she's never had an average life. So can you give me an example? Yes. So for instance, after she launched Goop and people were really kind of mad about the expensive products, she was recommending. She said, well, I can't pretend to be somebody who makes $25,000 a year. Okay. But was that the or another good example. She was talking about why acting was not really such a suitable career for her after she had kids. And she was trying to say that, you know, when you make a movie, you have to go somewhere and stay there for months and you work 18 hour days.

And that's not great when you have little kids, which that makes sense, right? We can understand that. Right. But she also said something like, you know, it's. It's easier if you have an office job, like if you're working nine to five. And then people got really mad because kind of the subtext was, well, it's much easier to just have an office job than a movie star. Like, no one knows how hard it is for me being like this glamorous Oscar winning movie stars.

So that was triggering to people too. Right. And when she was filming shallow hell, she said something like, so she had to put on a fat suit to be in shallow howl, as you probably recall. And she would put on the fat suit and she would walk around just to see. I can't. Yeah, I didn't see the movie, but I got the visual of what she looked like. Well, now you know what you're doing later today.

Yeah, maybe not. So she would put on the fat suit to walk around just to see, like, how people react to her, you know, like her practice for being in the role. Her method. Her method actor. Yeah, not that she's a method actor because she's like very casual and like it's easy for her. But yeah, so she puts on the fatsoos to kind of like walk around and see what it's like. And people react very differently. They didn't know it was Gwyneth Paltor in the fat suit.

they just think it's a woman who is much larger than Gwyneth is. And people would sort of like skirt around her when she's walking without looking at her. She'd pass by teen girls and they would kind of like be snickering. And she could feel what it felt like to be in a body like that. And she said something in an interview like, every pretty girl should be forced to do that. Okay. So it's a little cringe that some of her comments make her sound about. bit out of touch. Yes, exactly. And I think that that's, I think she's like, to her credit,

like trying to kind of get on the level of someone who's had a more normal life, but she just can't because she doesn't know a normal life. It slightly reminds me of when Dr. Oz was running for the Senate in Pennsylvania and he said the problem with people in Pennsylvania was they didn't eat enough crude today. There you go. Right. Similar. So I think she went on Dr. Oz and they had like green juice martinis together. Hmm, we should have had a green juice martini for you. actually. So, and actually it reminds me of a very good scene we had in the bold type, a show that was loosely based on cosmopolitan when someone gets a yoni stone stuck internally and has to get a colleague to pull it out, which was based on a real life story.

And of course, one of Gwyneth's famous remedies for, I think, slack vaginal muscles was squeezing a yoni stone. That's right. Doing Kegles with a Yoni style. That's what they said, but medical experts would dispute that this object could help with that. Right. And I think also there was something about you had to do it with the full moon, or it would be more effective if you did it with a full moon. Yeah. Well, the person who wrote the article about the Yoni egg or the Jadaig that went viral and caused a whole big stir, she said in the story that when she uses her egg, she likes to do a ritual where she like puts a,

blanket down. She has like a whole ceremony around it. So that gave people a lot to talk about when it was published. Right. Have you practiced that? Did you, in research for the book, use the Yoni stone? So I did buy a few things from Goop, uh, beauty products, no wellness products. Yep. And they were nice. They were perfectly fine. But they're expensive. So it wasn't something I felt compelled to buy again. Okay. I will say in defense of Gwyneth, I love the things that go under the eye. They're like soaked in something and the minute you put them under your eye, you would not need to worry about this at your age, but I worry about it and they immediately sucked any kind of puffiness out. So I recommend those. And also she has a very good exfoliator, which is expensive, but she did do

goop for Target, which was much more reasonably priced. Good clean goop. Is that what it was called? I mean, I bought several of the products and I thought they were very good and well priced. Yeah, but it didn't sell all that well. Right. Did it not? It did not. The reporting, this actually was in Puck, but the reporting was that Target had had the fallout from their pride controversy and they lost money over that. Do you remember this? No, what was that? They had a pride collection and I think basically conservatives got really mad and were boycotting. Right. And Gwyneth's good clean goop line was supposed to come out around that same time. And Target didn't promote it because they didn't want any more controversy. And they associated her with controversy. And I have to see. say that was the only example I think I found of a business entity sort of being wary of working with her and with Goop because of all the controversy around her. But in general, brands don't

care. They just want impressions and she drives impressions. Right. Well, and she did a brilliant ad for astronomer this weekend after the Coldplay cam, kiss cam saga, which was hilarious. Yeah. I mean, she The thing I like about Gwyneth is that she has a sense of humor about herself. She sort of understands that she is this very privileged, very attractive, white girl who's had a ton of luck in her life. But she does have a sense of humor about it. Yeah, she does. Isn't that fair?

Yeah, people say she's very charismatic. She's very fun to hang out with. She's very funny. So, yeah, I think that's true. And then there's a lot of things she doesn't have a sense of humor about. Go on. Well, for instance, with the Yoniag, when Jen Gunter, responded.

Was she a job? Jen Gunter is in OBGYN. She writes a lot correcting health misinformation on the internet these days and writes about women's health. She's written several books. She's great. I'm sure we covered her at Cosmo. Yeah, I'm sure we do. She's very smart. She's a

great writer. And she wrote a story about the egg that made the rounds. She was asked, you know, like the Huffington Post says, hey, will you comment? So she comments. And Gwyneth was really triggered by her. And she couldn't just let it slide. And then she had a group of goop doctors who, I don't know if they were all actually doctors, but they call themselves doctors.

Right. Right. A response basically to Jen Gunter, but not naming her, but it was clearly like in response to her. And she tweets it out saying, when they go low, we go high using Michelle Obama. Mama's famous quote from the Democratic National Convention. And people in the office I was told were like, Gwyneth, don't respond to this. Like, don't give it any air, but she just couldn't help herself.

Something similar happened too when the New York Times had a story about cookbook ghostwriters for celebrities. And she had had my father's daughter, her first cookbook come out. She collaborated with a really excellent chef named Julia Tershan, who helped her put the recipes together. and so the Times runs the story and then she gets very upset and she says, I never had a ghostwriter. Like Julia Turchin's not a ghost writer and she goes on Rachel Ray, who was also named in the article, and they talk about how they didn't have ghost writers.

But she did. Oh, she had a co-chef with the book. Well, yeah, she does credit Julia Tertian in the book and it says, you know, that Julia helped formulate the recipes and, you know, it says exactly what she did, but she didn't call her technically a ghostwriter. So why did you, your first biography was about Anna Winter, straight on the bestseller list, hugely well written. Props, congrats for that. What made you decide to choose Gwyneth as your next subject? Because you really have to spend a lot of time with these people. I mean, this is not something that you do in a couple of months. It's something you really, how long has it taken you to write about it? Three years. So it's three years of your life. Yes. What made you decide on Gwyneth?

Gwyneth has been in the public eye for 30 years. She's fascinating. She's polarizing. She's someone people have been magnetically attracted to. She's had different phases of her career. And she's impacted a number of industries, entertainment, obviously, fashion, beauty. And I think Goop, her company, served really as an archetype for so many wellness companies and kind of helped build the modern wellness industry. So I think she's had actual cultural impact, which few people have had.

And you're right, to your point about how you really have to live with the subject for a long time, I spent three years on the book. I interviewed more than 220 people to write it. Wow. People from Goop, people who worked on her films, friends, former friends. So yeah, it is a big undertaking. And what did you learn about her? Did you like her? I mean, what was your attitude to her going into the book?

It's almost honestly hard to remember because when you start researching it, you just kind of end up throwing your opinion of that person out the window. So I think I've always followed her. I have memories of being a teenager and watching her win her Oscar when she was 26 years old. For Shakespeare in love. Yeah, for Shakespeare in 1999. And I've always been a fan of her movies and her acting. I was aware of what she did at Goop and how kind of what she did at Goop was what a lot of media companies, I think. think wanted to do at that time. And I was also aware of the various controversies associated with

Goop. And of course, there's been so many profiles written about her. You may have edited some of them over your career. Probably. Yeah. And I felt like in doing the phone calls and all the interviews, that those profiles just barely scratched the surface of who she is. Amy, hold on one second. We're just going to take some messages. And we're back with Amy O'Dell, the biographer of the Gwyneth Paltrow. biography. So what did you find out about her that you felt was fresh and new? Why should someone read your book as opposed to one of the many profiles, as you say, that have been written over the years? Yeah. So what really surprised me about Gwyneth is that she's not the same person that I read about in those profiles or who I've seen on talk shows countless times. Like so many

people I talked to saw a different side of her. Go on. She can be cold. She can be aloof. She can be I see. People said she was like any busy editor-in-chief. Some people actually compared her to Anna Wintor. They said, you know, when she's running Goop, and she really does run Goop for anybody who thinks she might not be. She really is the CEO, which is unusual for a celebrity brand. But people say when she's running Goop, you go into the office, into her office, and she might not look up on you. She's busy. She just wants you to say your thing so you can get your answer and move on because she's a business person. She's running the company. At the same time, she can be very warm, very charismatic. If she wants you to feel like you're her best friend, she can make you feel that way. And her acting experience really helped her in the business world.

This was something I hadn't thought a lot about. But for instance, when she was raising money for Goop, it's raised around $140 million. She could remember what to say in the investor pitches and then deliver it perfectly. Like she's reciting a script. Right. Or maybe she's play acting as CEO. She's faking it until she makes it. I think she did fake it until she make it, but people told me she picks things up quickly.

Like whether she's learning archery for Emma, her 1996, first leading part, or has to learn financial statements for Goop. Like, she really did learn that stuff. So is Goop? Because there's been various expectations that Goop was going to go public, that Goop would get sold. I know Goop Kitchen has now taken off, and I'm very excited because it's about to come to New York, which frankly, I can't wait for. where is she with the state of the business right now?

Yeah. So Goop is privately held, as you know. So we only know a limited amount of information. Goop Kitchen, I think, could be an interesting model for Goop moving forward if Gwyneth decides she wants to spend more time acting. Because she has a movie with Timothy Chalamee coming out towards the end of the year, Marty Supreme. And Goop Kitchen, it's like a licensing. agreement as I understand it, where her primary responsibility is to promote it. So if she did that with other parts of the brand, like beauty or fashion, she wouldn't eat all the infrastructure. It

wouldn't be so expensive. And I think it would free up her time to do some other things if she wants. And Goop Kitchen is, it's basically healthy takeout, right? I think so, yeah. I mean, they have like a distinction where they, you know, they don't use the ingredients that Gwyneth doesn't like, like, gluten. And I mean, gluten is fine for the vast majority of people, but that is how they market it. And that's something that I think she was really influential in, in terms of wellness, is giving wellness a rhetoric and a language. Talking about toxins and how you don't want toxins in your body or in your food or in your environment. And then capitalizing on that by selling people products that were so-called clean, like clean moisturizer, clean mascara, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Okay. And what about her relationships? I mean, the thing that's also very intoxicating about her is her personal life. So if you think of Brad Pitt, Ben Affleck, Chris Martin and now Brad Falkchuk, those are four, A, exceptionally attractive, but be very successful. And Ben Affleck, notwithstanding, as normal as you can be, given an.

extraordinary celebrity life. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess there's a different story with all of them. The Brad Pitt relationship was funny to hear about because, as I said, she had this very elite upbringing. She ran in a very glamorous circle. And Brad Pitt comes from Missouri. And it like had a much more average upbringing, came from a religious Baptist family. And he decides when he's in college, you know, I'm going to head west and see if I can make it as an actor, whereas for Gwyneth, it was obviously much different because she knew all the casting directors through her parents. Right.

And they were really excited to audition her and see if she was going to be the next life, Danner. So Gwyneth felt like she had just a really different background to Brad Pitt, which they did, like a bit of rough, goodness. Yeah, like a more sophisticated upbringing. She thought she was smarter than him. And people. who observed them said they just didn't really seem to have all that much in common. I mean,

they were both like famous, beautiful movie stars. But, uh, yeah, she would, she probably, she may be smarter than him. Yeah. Oh, sigh. Um, and what about Ben Affleck? So they did shallow howl together, right? Or did they do, no, bounce together. They did bounce. Right. So you need to go home and watch shallow howl. Yeah, I've got a lot of Wineth repertoire to get through. Yes. They did. bounced together, but they were in Shakespeare in love before that. Right. So after Gwyneth's relationship with Brad Pitt and they were engaged, you know, so they split.

It was very public. The New York Post cover headline was like, it's the pits, something like that. Cleffer. Yes. And, you know, their relationship was just everywhere. He accepted a Golden Globe and he called Gwyneth, his angel. And she's sitting there at the table sort of like, you know, looking up at him, like, oh my God, like he's so dreamy.

And with Ben, she tried, she said she wanted to keep it private. I mean, when she was filming a movie and he would stop by and they were together or on Shakespeare in Love, like, people could tell that they were together. But it's, there's fewer pictures of them, like, at an event together. And with Chris Martin, it's actually hard to find pictures of them together as a couple. That's interesting because they were married for a long time. There's paparazzi shots, sure, but they did avoid, like, walking. walking red carpets together because they didn't want their relationship to be as much in the public eye. Of course it was anyway.

Right. Because they're both so famous. But they were more control over it. Or perhaps they were more thoughtful about not overexposing it. Yes, exactly. I mean, in the way that J-Lo did with Ben Affleck. Yeah. I think that's fair to say.

Right. And then what about Brad Falkchuk, her current husband? So people say they're very in love and that he worships her. and they have a lot in common. They like fine dining, traveling, and that they have a good relationship. I could have fine dining and travel in common with somebody. Exactly.

Those seem like very strong things to have in common with someone. But I have seen her talking about him and she seems to light up and find it funny. I remember once someone saying to her, how did you get a role in the politician, which was the new Netflix show, that Brad Falkchuk was writing and she said, because I'm fucking the writer.

And there was a kind of, you know, collective gasp in the audience, but she had a sense of humor about it. And I thought it was a clever answer. Yeah, she's clever. She can be very clever. But he, yeah, I think with Ben Affleck, like one of the things she liked about him is that he's a writer.

He wasn't just an actor reading lines. And this is what people said to me about Gwyneth too. She's really smart. And acting just became very easily to her and it wasn't enough for her, that it's boring for her to just be reading lines. And that's why she likes doing goop because she's, and there is a CEO and she's really running the business. Well, and I think she believes it, right? She does believe it. Right.

Healthy living, lack of toxins in the environment and why not do something. And also she's got incredible style. We saw when she had the trial with the guy that tried to exploit her with the skiing accident. that, you know, she turned up with those incredible gold frame big glasses and everybody wanted them. She had an oversized row coat. Everybody wanted the coat. It immediately sold out. So she does have great style. Funnily enough, I was with her at an event earlier this year and she just looked phenomenal. And I just thought, well, I guess perhaps, you know, none of, she seems to have unreachable levels of beauty.

And taste. She has very good taste. Very good taste. And I think that was important for the wellness industry too, which kind of adopted that aspirational, luxurious aesthetic. Yeah, she brought an upper east side aesthetic to something which had been hitherto, patchouli and granola. And or maybe a Montecito, a Montecito aesthetic these days as it may be. But yes. Yeah, fair.

Yes, that very refined, tasteful, muted colors, goop gray. she didn't like brown, I was told. Although brown is now trendy. Yeah. But she brought that aesthetic and that helped create a community around Goop. And now you know there's so many wellness brands that are just kind of copying that. Yeah, totally. And nothing is just a beauty brand anymore.

Everything is like a beauty and wellness brand or like a fitness and wellness brand. Well, it has some hideous purpose. You know, it's got purpose driven, values driven. And you're like, yeah, your only value here is to make money. Right. And then her, the other thing that she has is marketing chops, right? You think of her candle when she came out with this candle smells like my vagina, which was a pretty crazy thing to say on a candle,

but immediately got her extraordinary publicity. Yeah, I think that's like the astronomer video that we saw from over the weekend. What I was told about that is that she thought it would be hilarious. She created the candle with a guy named Doug Little, and they thought it would be funny and the internet reacted. I mean, that's kind of how she built her audience for Goop by having these controversies,

trying to plant them sometimes, not always successfully, because as you know, it's hard to predict what's going to go viral on the internet. So they had, they sometimes were able to plant things, but quite often they weren't. An example, another example of them successfully planting something,

Goop was launching a travel app, and there was a media buy associated with it, so they needed to get a certain number of debt. downloads. And Gwyneth said, oh, just call it G spotting. And then everyone will make fun of me and we'll have all the downloads we need right there. And is that what happened? Yeah, that is what happened. Right. Interesting. So at the end of this three year marathon on Gwyneth Paltrow, which as you say, you spoke to 220 people. That's a lot of people to talk about one person. Convierte your passion in a business with Shopify and bathe records of ventas with the form of

Pago with a better conversion of the world. Has heard of well. The incredible system of Shopify facilitates the on your site web, in the social and in

any place. That is music for your ears. No, you'll be more waltas. Your business will be a super-exit

with Shopify. Empeza to your period of a month in Shopify. coms. Barre Records. Did you like her?

What did you come away with? What was your your You know, what was your feeling about her? Yeah. I love her as an actress. I can't wait to see her movie that's coming out around Christmas time.

I actually think she is a really savvy influencer. I think she's the original influencer. She started Goop in 2008 from her kitchen in London. It came out of her newsletter, right, that she was writing when she was living in London with Chris Martin and she was sending it back to friends in America. And it was like a double mansion because they had a mansion. and they bought them and one next door

and they combine them. So she's sitting in her kitchen and her double mansion. She sends the newsletter out. It has recipes for turkey ragu and banana nut muffins. And it like obviously evolved into this other thing

with a lot more there. But at the time in 2008, like you remember, celebrities were not leaning into building an audience online. Right. No, they weren't. It was almost pre-Twit.

Well, it wasn't quite pre-Twit. We had Twitter. We had Facebook. We didn't have Instagram. Right. But she was doing early affiliate deals, like with J. Crew, where she would wear the clothes in the newsletter and then people would buy them and they would get, you know, they would profit from that over a coup. Nobody called it affiliate then. And actors in particular were really kind of slow to come

around to social media. Now they do it much more, which they need to be doing. But it wasn't a given that entertainers would be building audiences online. So she was very early to that and very early to saying, hey, why should I use my image to promote another brand like Estee Lauder when I can use it to create my own brand? So I think all of that is very brilliant. And I think it's unfortunate that Goop published a lot of inaccurate health information that people take seriously. So go on. Just talk a little bit about the darker side of Goop. Yeah.

So Goop, I mean, the J-Deg, Dr. Jen Gunter said, you know, it could cause you harm. It could give you an infection. Don't use it. And there have been a number of products, you know, that probably are expensive. They might not harm you, but they'll just waste your money that Goup has sold. I think maybe what's a bit darker about it is they promoted some experts who are really out there or so-called experts. One of them, for example, Anthony William, the medical medium. Have you heard of him?

No. So he says he has no medical training and he says that he hears a spirit in his ear who tells him how to diagnose people and give like advanced healing information. I think those are the words he uses. And he published a number of articles for Goop. He helped start this celery juice craze through Goop by saying celery juice could cure various ailments and help heal your chronic diseases. Well, if you have a chronic illness that needs serious medical attention and you follow this advice to drink celery juice, your illness could get a lot worse. So this is the fear. A lot of things could get a lot worse if all you're doing is drinking celery juice. Yeah. So this is the fear.

that doctors and experts who I interviewed have is that Goop is sewing a distrust of Western medicine and established science and, you know, they're not saying that health care is perfect, that the pharmaceutical industry is perfect, but we're not going to make it better with pseudoscience. And is there any suggestion that she and RFK Jr. hang out? I didn't hear that, but she doesn't denounce him when she's asked about him. and I think she's asked about him for obvious reasons because he too is sowing a distrust of Western medicine and established science and experts. But she says things like, I think he has some interesting ideas. She's not denounced him, but I don't know if they hang out.

But I think what he does is similar. It's like this wellness philosophy of like there's toxins in our food and toxins in our lives and we need to get rid of them all the while they're cutting Medicaid. But, you know, the role of toxins and like in a lot, or forever chemicals, for instance, like it's, we're not, we don't totally know all of the ramifications of that. But one expert I interviewed, a public health expert I interviewed said something to me like, you know, you hear wellness people talking about how you have to avoid certain ingredients in your food because you don't want to increase your risk of cancer. But they never say, well, the HPV vaccine is really.

actually effective way of preventing cancer. A preventing cancer. Yeah. It's so interesting. Well, and have you met her? Did you meet her in the process of the book? I did not. And if you did meet her, how would you, how would you react, do you think? Would you want to ask lots of questions? Yeah, I think. The other direction. No, I wouldn't run the other direction. She knows I'm here. I have nothing to hide. The book is out, obviously. No, I wouldn't ask for a selfie either because that's not

my style. I think the question I have for her is what motivates you? Like, why do, like, why do all this? Aside from the fact that she's ambitious, which I think is a great thing, because that was the one question that I asked people that I got all these different answers. Like, some people said it was money. Some people said she really likes being the CEO and running a business. So I just got so many different answers. People had a hard time pinning that one down. Okay. My final question is a story that we actually wrote about already in The Beast. which is her favorite, I think it was her favorite sex position, which I feel like as two former Cosmo ladies,

we can discuss. But I believe it was with Ben Affleck. Can you go into it? Or can you just? Sure. So she told, so the Gwyneth, as I said, the Gwyneth that her friend saw and that many of my sources saw was different from the Gwyneth audiences saw.

And particularly when she was doing like Shakespeare in Love, and Emma, she was playing these aristocratic princess-type characters. And her friends were like, she's not really like that at all. She's funny. She curses a lot. And as an example, someone told me that she told her former makeup artist, Kevin O'Coyne, that she loved when Ben Affleck teabagged her. Should we just leave that to people's imagination?

Sure. Okay. Well, it's a good note on which to end. And if people want to find out what teabagging is and they don't already know or don't already practice it, they can buy your book to find out. Gwyneth Paltrow, the biography. Amy O'Dell, congrats on three years of dogged work. And how does one describe it the goopification of Gwyneth?

Or the odellization, the odelization of Gwyneth. Sure, I'll take it. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation with Amy. I'm an unabashed goop fan, actually. I don't buy all the medical and the health stuff. But I do think that Gwyneth has a great aesthetic. But Amy's book is a real tour de force of reporting. And Gwyneth is a modern woman who's really changed the modern approach to health, I think.

And Gwyneth is a thoroughly modern celebrity who's embraced not only acting at the top of the acting tree with her Oscar for Shakespeare. love, but also started her own business, raise serious money. And at some point, one expects her to have a serious exit. And in the meantime, she's made a candle that smells like her vagina. What more could one want? I can think of a few things. Anyway, thank you for watching, if you have been. Don't forget to share this podcast with a friend. Please leave us a comment. We look at all your comments. And as I said, we'll be challenging Michael Wolfe to ask him if I really do interrupt him too much when he comes on on Saturday. And until then, be Beast. Don't forget to subscribe to thedailybeast.com for updates on everything that's going on right now. And please join me in a large round of applause for our

producers. Devin Roderino, Anna Von Erson, and our editor, Jesse Millwood. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the DailyBeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this, this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.