The Daily Beast Podcast - Why Harp’s Special Perk Stunned Trump Staff

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles take on Donald Trump’s latest fixation with image, power, and excess, from his apparent weight gain and the extraordinary Mar-a-Lago golf club buffet to the increasingly curious role of Natalie Harp and her place in Trump’s orbit. They explore why Trump’s celebrity, sexual bravado, and ability to attract devoted followers remain central to his political appeal, before turning to the explosive meeting between Jared Kushner and Hakeem Jeffries that has White House staffers furious and raises an awkward possibility for Trump’s party heading into the midterms. They also look at Trump’s ballroom project, the hidden military machinery beneath the White House, the fate of America’s wild mustangs, and the larger cultural reckoning over football and brain injuries. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Mar-a-Lago Golf Club, which is not at Mar-a-Lago, it's in West Palm Beach. The golf club, every Sunday, has a buffet. Right. Just over the top. And people talk about it, especially the staffers. Like, I mean, they get teary-eyed. Their eyes roll back. Because they're actually not allowed to go to the buffet.

Natalie always allowed into the buffet. Not just Natalie, but Natalie with her mother. And among the staff, there was like, is she allowed to do that? Should she be doing that? She says that the president says she can be here, but can she be here? That became a major moment within the campaign, Natalie at the buffet. It wasn't all you could eat buffet, and you know the all you can eat president. Michael.

Joanna. We're back in the studio. our favorite place. Every Tuesday in the studio, reliably. Our safe space, Michael. Is it a safe space? Because we have a lot to discuss, not least Donald Trump's weight gain. Is that why he's posting so many pictures of himself and Kim John Un? Because he looks slim by comparison. We're also going to- A contrast gainer. A contrast gainer, your favorite phrase, contrast gainer. We've got Natalie Harp. Is she enjoying this moment? And why do you? did she disappear from official White House photos? We may always have Natalie Harp from here on in. I hope so.

The Natalie Harp presidency. What is it? Be still my beating heart. Let's hope. We've also got why the Trumpers are killing America's wild horses, the Mustangs. That's a terrible story. Totally. I almost cried when I read that story.

I mean, how can you, brilliant. Let's go kill the wild horses. I know what is wrong with these people. Obviously, we've got the ballroom. We'll always have the ballroom. And we've got Canada. And we've got, I think he's officially now the Thinking Woman's Grumpet in Mark Carney. And he's the leader that Americans want.

And we're saddled with Donald Trump. And we have the dumbest meeting in political history. I want to get to that because it's like heads smacking. Are you talking about Scott Besson? No, I am talking about. about Jared and Jeffries. Oh, Jared and Hakeem Jeffries. Yes, we have to come to that.

But I also wanted to just do a quick mention. We're recording this on Tuesday morning and Gillen Maxwell's appeal that she did herself from her Texas prison camp where she was moved after she had that oliginous interview with our now Attorney General Todd Blanche, who went to see her in Florida and rapidly moved her after she said the president was a wonderful man.

and she wanted to just say congratulations to the president for getting elected again, and he'd been a great friend of Jeffrey Epstein's. Not only did she have her appeal thrown back at her, which I'm sure is of great disappointment to her, but the judge said, on the contrary, to the extent it is relevant, far from exculpating her, it incriminates her or reinforces the correctness of the legal rule. Moulings, Maxwell challenges. That's what the judge said. So, sorry, Gelen, you're still in there for your 20 years right now. You're going to have to wait a bit longer for a pardon. Michael. Before we go forward. That sounds ominous. I want to stop, go a little off topic,

but to acknowledge what I think is a story of enormous consequence. Actually, possibly far greater What did I just say? Consequence. Far greater consequence than possibly even the Donald Trump presidency. Impossible. Impossible. Which happened today. Go on. Today marks the end of football and the NFL.

Can't go on. I mean, football and the NFL have been at the center of American culture for two generations, transformed the media business, made sports essentially in sports programming, the center of American, media, of American culture. Arguably has a fine, of a very precise relationship to the manosphere, to the idea of masculinity, to Trumpism, arguably. Right. And to a certain kind of toxic masculinity. And that, yeah, I mean, I mean. I mean, in the center of American culture is this incredibly violent sport, so violent that

anyone who plays it will get their brains knocked out. We now know this, a definitive study, a minimum of 25% of the people who play Major League football will have brain damage, substantial brain damage. It can't go on. I mean, this is more dangerous than smoking. And so it literally had at this moment, this today marks what will be the beginning of the end of football. And this doesn't feel new. I mean, it's both new because the survey is, or the study is definitive.

But, you know, my kids are in their late 20s. There was no way in hell I was going to let me. Well, I mean, this now becomes. I mean, it is kind of like smoking. Everybody knew smoking was bad. And then in 1964, I think the Surgeon General released a report which then began the end of smoking. And this is definitive. You will, if you play football, the overwhelming likelihood is that you will get brain damage.

So people won't play it. They won't play it in high school. They won't play it in college. And they certainly won't play it professionally. So first of all, this is going to kill 60 minutes. if Barry Weiss doesn't kill 60 minutes, the fact that the American football lead into 60 minutes will kill 60 minutes. Yeah, no, no.

And remember the profound effect that the end of smoking had on the media business. Can you even remember the days when you used to go into a restaurant and people would be smoking all over you, all over your food, you would take a plane, people would be smoking. And the absurd idea that you would have smoking and non-smoking rose. I understand this makes us sound like we're from the giraffe, classic period. I was a very enthusiastic smoker. I'm sure you were. I'm sure you were, but I bet you're glad you don't smoke now. Of course. You couldn't possibly smoke now unless you're

emotionally disturbed. Although it's making a bit of a comeback in movies and television actually, but it's amazing how we went from people protesting the ban, especially in New York, to knots of smokers outside office doors to you just don't see people smoking anymore apart from in France. the message was a very powerful one. You will live if you don't smoke. You will die if you smoke. And with similarly, that is now the message about playing football. Did Donald Trump play football? Is that possibly why he's such an erratic president? No. Not a bad segue. Come on. Yes. Not a bad. Very good. And I'm just trying to think of Donald Trump, that that fat fucker out on the on the on the football team. I'm barreling towards you, except he wouldn't because he's got bonespurs, and we've never actually seen him run. He'd probably have his own little golf cart on the football field. I've never understood the rules of it.

I've gone to the Super Bowl. I find the whole thing a sort of spectacle, but I've never enjoyed it because it doesn't seem very sporting. And you know, someone's going to end up with brain damage. Well, it is an American, it is America. The football field. The football field is America. So what's going to replace it? Not my America.

but I'm a sort of... Well, look, what is your America? Yes. Martini's, the Hamptons, eating fresh produce picked by your beautiful wife from the garden. That's your America. I'm keeping my swimming pool open until the end of October so I can swim every day, America. The gay life. It's abundance, Michael.

It's a life of abundance. All right. Well, Donald Trump does look like he's put on weight. I mean, he definitely looks like he's put on weight. Well, no. Wait a minute. We haven't even talked about Natalie Harp yet. I can't decide which I want more. Donald Trump's weight gain and understanding his food intake more than I already do or Natalie Harp and the fact that she removed herself from the photos this weekend at the Indy Car Race, also American.

Well, let's go to Natalie Harp, because I happen to have a new theory about Natalie Hart. Go ahead. Which you can see in my Instagram getting a lot of attention as of two hours ago. on, which is... Are you sitting on that nice chair, that nice cream chair with the blue stitches? Yes, I am. I am. Yeah, I think I watched it.

Yes. There's so many of them, Michael. Every day, almost. Although I find I can't do, if we're doing a podcast, it gets in the way. Yeah, well, you've got to prioritize the podcast, my friend. Prioritize. Anyway, you know, I was asking that question, which I asked of myself all of the time. I think, which the question so many of us ask, how is it that any sane person could have, in fact,

voted for Donald Trump? I mean, this is what, how is that? What is it? What is the appeal? What could possibly be the appeal? And then I thought, well, Natalie Harp. There is this, this, you know, we look at it. We liberals look at it and say, my God, it's appalling that a, that a comely young woman follows, follows around this man and is there to do his every, anticipate his every need. And that's appalling. How could that ever happen? But I think a good part of the country says, my God, that shows what an amazing guy Donald Trump is. that these young women are just just fall in line behind him. And wouldn't that be great?

And isn't that what every man wants? And isn't Donald Trump? Isn't this proof of concept? Donald Trump is a rock star. Interesting. So he's the, without having to do any of the singing or the leg thinging on stage like Mick Jagger does, he, well, you're always saying he wanted to be, right, he has groupies, he has fans, he has

groupies, he has fans who don't behave like regular people because they excuse bad behavior or they welcome bad behavior or they just accept everything. Everything that he does is something to be admired. And also, you know, like rock stars, they get the girls. Well, and also some sort of projection, isn't it, that you want other people out there because you don't think you can do that in your life to be doing that. I've always maintained the Stormy Daniels thing. It was a terrible mistake to go after him for that because it's many men's fantasy, celebrity golf tournament, a porn star who then leaves at the end of sex and isn't lying around all needy wanting to be told that you love her. You know, it's, I know a lot of men who

would be like, sounds like the perfect weekend. Yeah, no, I mean. And also honestly, I mean, we were talking about this before in terms of Monica Lewinsky, but a lot of liberals completely understood why Bill Clinton wanted to hang out with Monica. Well, they certainly didn't punish him for it. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite, which is relevant to the current midterms. The second-term Clinton midterm. And remember, midterms, and especially the second midterms, always go badly for the party in power, except during the Lewinsky moment, when, in fact, Clinton benefited from that and did quite well during the midterms in his second term. So do we think there is something about the notion of

sex and robust sex appeal with much younger women that works to a politician's advantage. Because we've always assumed it's a disqualifier, but it turns out certainly in Trump and Clinton's case, not a lot of. I mean, I think it's how you match the, how the circumstances align. Gary Hart, not so good, as you might remember. But wasn't that because he challenged the media and said, I'm not doing that I'm not, you know, you follow me, see if you can get anything on me. Well, Clinton did that too. I never had sex with that woman.

True. I don't know what the... That was after it had been exposed, right? And he was splitting hairs because, in fact... Well, that was after, sort of, but it is splitting hairs. So why does this work? And it works because, I think partly because you already know that that's what. going on. It doesn't come as a surprise that young women are trailing behind Donald Trump.

I mean, he spent his career doing that. Right, right. And it was certainly not a surprise with Bill Clinton. But I just think that there is, and I think it's this part of the problem here and part of the problem in this entire Trump era is the liberal, is the liberal, the liberal, the liberal mind having no imagination about why someone like Donald Trump would be possible? Right. And do we think, I mean, Nell Scavell asked me this this morning, a beast contributor, and also the author of Just the Funny Parts, which is the best book I've read about

Hollywood and what it's like being in the writer's room. Is Natalie Harp Marla maplesing Melania? Well, I think, I think I'm in, so the reference there is, is that Marla Maples came on the scene when Donald Trump was married to Ivana. And clearly by her own sense of presence and publicity helped push Ivana out of the picture. Well, and Melania doesn't look like she cares very much. I mean, I was very struck when we saw her at the Indy. race on Sunday that she was all business pants white shirt with the popped collar which is a new thing I don't know if that's because she's had some surgery or whatever but the popped collar is new

jacket and there was Natalie in a little leather pleplum outfit chattering away with Eric the son and then it looked like Melania and Donald were having an argument at one point she's sort of flicking him with her hand as she does from time to time and then you see very very Victor, her father, just to finish my point, looking anxiously in. He can tell us trouble in paradise because he's trying to do the dad thing of like, is everything okay? And nobody was paying him any attention. Yeah. And remember, the facts are they don't really speak. Right. They are not, they are seldom in each other's company. Well, you could tell that when they were sitting next to each other because it looked like they were catching up and it wasn't going well. And just,

just to remind everybody that at the Republican convention in 2024, first thing, there was doubts about whether she would ever appear and then she appeared on the last day and but would not go out into the VIP box until Trump had left the box to go give his speech. And was that because she was scared of being shot at? Because this was two days, after Butler, Pennsylvania. Well, I don't think there's any, I think it would be very peculiar for anyone to be shot at within the convention. That would be a real.

Well, you say that, but it's a huge group of people. I could see why people would be nervous. Well, anyway, no. Okay. She just didn't want to sit next to her husband, not because he was going to be shot, but because he was, she hates him. Okay. She looked like she hated him on Sunday, but it might have been that she literally had to sit there

and watch the cars going, around 175 times. And it was very hot, very noisy. When I said to one of his close aides, this was during the campaign and wondering again, why she had never made one campaign appearance with him. And when I press this campaign about this, and this person looked at me like I was a real dummy

and said, you mean, you want a reason? The reason is that she hates his guts. She hates him. And I thought, yes. So fostering the future. Before we get off this subject, which we could go on for some time. I want to tell a story that I reported in my book. Is this the buffet story?

This is the buffet story. Good, good, good. Go on. Okay. So at the golf club, the Marilago Golf Club, which is not at Mara Lago, it's in West Palm Beach. And because that's the drawback of Mara Lago, which it doesn't have a golf course. So you have to go to the golf club. But the golf club, every Sunday, has a buffet.

Right. Now, the buffet in American life has been debased. Now you go to any holiday in, and there's a crappy, you know, buffet with those. Pieces of melon. Always pieces of green melon. But in the American Make America Great Again, there is, there exists a buffet circa 1965, which is, you know, people, it defined the vastness of America. The more of everything of America, right, the abundance of America, those huge sweating hands

and those enormous kind of stakes. Station, station after station, yes, the omelet station. And at the golf club, there is one such buffet just over the top. And people talk about it, especially the staff. like, I mean, they get teary-eyed. Their eyes roll back because they're actually not allowed to go to the buffet. The staff aren't allowed to go to the buffet. No.

But they talk about it and they say, a lobster. You get a full lobster and can go back for a second if you're allowed into the buffet on special moments. Natalie always allowed into the buffet. not just Natalie, but Natalie with her mother. Natalie and her mother. Every Sunday showing up for the buffet. And among the staff, there was like, is she allowed to do that? Should she be doing that?

And then the people at the golf club serving this, are we, should we, she wants this? She says she says that the president says she can be here. But can she be here? that became a major moment within the campaign, Natalie at the buffet. Which is odd because she doesn't look like she eats very much. And in her letters that we showed last week that you were given by someone on the campaign a couple of years ago, it actually says she wasn't eating and she wasn't sleeping in her lovesick language.

Well, maybe it's the mother who was putting away the law. Or maybe she was coming with a bag and putting them in there. Who knows? But it was an all you could eat buffet. It was an all you could eat buffet and you know the all you can eat president. Well, tell us more because he's clearly put on weight. Clearly put on weight. And there was a report that his doctors are concerned about this.

Okay, so at his checkup, he put on 15 pounds. from last year. And we don't, I mean, actually, the numbers here are fudged. So it was that apparently when he went to, when he was booked for his indictment in Georgia, he put his weight, the weight, his weight was listed as 215 pounds. Now that is, he had to, no, he did not. Everybody else has to be weighed, measured, measured. Wade and all that. When you get indicted, you have to be weighed? Yeah. Not, but not Donald Trump.

Right. He got to say what his what his weight was. And clearly it wasn't 215 pounds. No, in in the, within the White House, they actually, they actually talk about this. And they figure that that on the campaign trail, he was probably 250 to 265. Mm-hmm. And now they think they would, the, the estimate is 275 to 2.95 to 2.9. So he is saying that it was 215 in Georgia, which would have been slightly more than than two years ago. And then I think now he is in the last physical it was 238. But these are Trump numbers. So I would say it's much more he is coming on to 300 on a fast track. Okay.

So he's pushing 300 because he certainly looks enormous. I thought he had tried GLP ones. Well, that is the, again, when I was writing all or nothing, a set of people, Mar-a-Lago people, people who hung out on the Mar-a-Lago terrorist, big gossip center, was that he was on GLP-1s. Why? Because he was eating less, or how do people know? Well, he was somewhat, he was thinner.

I mean, he looked remarkably, notably, let's say, better. And that has, but that and that didn't last very long. And possibly the side effects or for whatever reason. Well, because you'd think if he has a young woman in tow, he might want to lose some pounds. Or you could look at it the other way, because he has a young woman. and in tow. He can eat as much as he want. Yes, exactly. He can go to his own buffet and eat. Can you get us into? We should go to the buffet, Michael. How can we get to the Moralago Golf Club buffet? I would like to smuggle a lobster

out of it. Well, I'm possibly you can get an invitation. Unlikely that at this point, although who knows? I've gotten them before. You've gotten them before. If you do, I want to be your guest and perhaps you could wear a wig and we could go in disguise. I would very much like to try the Mar-a-Lago Golf Club buffet. You could go as Natalie. Well, in my dreams, I could go as Natalie. I don't really mean that, actually. But...

But it is, it is, I mean, the story remains, this is a guy, this is a really a fat guy. He's an 80-year-old fat guy who stuffs himself with junk food, hasn't done a lick of exercise other than getting in in and out of the golf cart. And has young women running after him on the golf course? And also could fall over at any moment.

Would it be a shock if this 300 pound 80-year-old fell over dead? No, it wouldn't be a shock. Well, and it would also be what he wanted to do it on television, right? He should do it. If he's going to do it, he needs to do it on television. It should be at one of his cabinet meetings when he just doesn't wake up from sleep. Well, it's one of those things that probably is difficult to plan for. Okay, so also.

But it is, there is an inevitability of it, like brain damage if you play football. Also a good segue. Also a very good segue. Okay, which takes us to what is the White House making of or did they set up the meeting between the son-in-law, who's actually very thin, almost concave, Jared, and Hakeem Jeffreys, whose normal size, Hakeem Jeffries seems normal and healthy looking. Jared looks, I've always thought of Jared looks concave.

Ivanko is very thin. Yeah, and actually Trump says, Trump says, Jared, he looks gay. Oh, he does say that? What does gay look like? But he looks thin. In Trump's view, thin. Thin, okay. All right.

Well, we can come on to. But I can answer. This question because I actually had a discussion over the weekend with White House, with a White House source. And this meeting came up because the White House is furious. Or at least the staff in the White House totally freaked out and furious because essentially this is Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, having a meeting with the person who will be. the Democratic leader of the House of Representatives if the Democrats retake the House. And basically, what this meeting said implicitly, explicitly, is we're going to lose. So we're reaching out to you because you are going to be the new leader. And what is the, so everybody in the White House is

going, what do you mean we're going to lose? Why would you, why would you, why would you, why would you admit that? Why would you set that up now before, I mean, just, we're just, we're just, we're just, at the beginning of the midterm election season. Why? Well, also, why would Hakeem Jeffries take a meeting with Jared Kushner? Because what this will mean without question is that Hakeem Jeffries, this was already brewing, but precisely now because of this meeting, will face a leadership challenge. Why would he possibly do this? What is in it for him? Well, what is in it for him? He's just stupid.

Oh, he's just stupid. I mean, just ridiculous. It's like he got caught out. I mean, I think that he was, you know, remember, I mean, he's. Who leaked the meeting? Who do we think leaps the meeting? That I don't know. Okay, because they're supposed to have been introduced by a kind of mutual friend in New York, right?

Yeah, well, they're two New York guys. And I, you know, and I'm sure that in Hakeem Jeffrey's thinking through this, you know, as Jared knows a lot of rich guys in New York. And, you know, so I might as well meet with him and maybe I'll learn something. So maybe he was doing it as a favor or maybe he leaked it to say, look, even the Republicans think that we're going to win. Well, I don't think so because it sets him up. Yeah, I thought it was terrible.

This is devastating for him. I mean, he's been in a thin ice anyway. This is just, he just cracked through. Okay, so the White House were furious with Jared? Everybody's every, no, yes, both sides are furious with their principles in this situation. How difficult is it for the White House staffers to be furious with the president's son? Well, they can be furious. They just can't control him.

Right. They can't do anything. I mean, and this is the other thing that they're aware of, that Jared is operating his own independent office. So what's inside Trump's head over this meeting? Is he like, I can't control my son-in-law? Is he like, I can't believe that they think that we're going to lose because I think we're going to win? You never, with Trump, you can't talk about his family. His family is always right.

Or he's always, what can I do? Their family. Really? Yeah. Interesting. So he doesn't, he doesn't pick up the phone. and yell at Jared, what were you thinking? No.

First thing, he's slightly intimidated by Jared. I mean, that's how Jared comes by his influence and power. Because he went to Harvard because he got the daughter. Yeah. Because he's all. All of those reasons. And he's thin. And Jared is very good at playing his father-in-law.

I mean, it's a very, a, effective kind of, I've seen the way he moves around his father-in-law, never engaging, always being able to refocus the subject on something that is that his father-in-law wants to talk about. I mean, it's kind of artful. And remember, Jared is really the only person who survived the first term and prosper. Right, right. Okay, well, the ballroom's prosper. bring. The ballroom is being built as fast as it can be built as you predicted. Those poor

people working on it must be just doing double shifts, I would think. And as we this, and this came out, I think, I think there was a Washington Post piece about this that said, you know, the Trump has been selling this ballroom on the idea of, of that it should be built for security reasons. Right. And then the Washington Post had a piece, which I actually, we discussed earlier than the Washington Post and we're on this story, is that that's ridiculous because there is all of those security features currently exist within the White House proper. And haven't you been into it? Didn't you get a tour of the bunker? I've gotten a tour of some aspects of it. There are other aspects which you can't.

They don't let you see because it's a high security zone. But the truth is the high- What the security zone even mean in a Trump government? Do you think Natalie's mean to the secret zone? Well, what it means is that the Trump is that basically the political end of the White House doesn't have anything to do with this. This is, and it's really an interesting thing about the White House. The White House is a facade masking a military base underneath it. And it's run by the military. I mean, when you go to the White House, it's one of the impressions, the key impressions that you have is that the military is all over the ones.

And they're also in uniform, right? That's always struck me as interesting that, you know, you get shepherded around by, they always look like they're about to go on actually on a ship or on a, you know, aircraft carrier because they're often in those kind of white naval uniforms. Whereas actually, if you go to the equivalent in the UK, just because that's the. example I know. You're never met by anybody in armed uniform or military uniform. No, well, again, and that was, I mean, this was first pointed out to me by Steve Bannon, and I went to the White House to see Steve, and he had himself just gotten to the White House. And it was like, you wouldn't believe it. This is really a military base. I mean, this is all, you see all this? Fake. This is the White House. Not being on the fake.

Right. Like Jeffrey Epstein knocking on the columns in his. Just the idea that this is a facade and underneath here something the public cannot see is a very, very sophisticated military installation. So Trump's saying this stuff. He's picked this up, but he's a lie. It's just the Trump lie that this is going to be part of this. And the ballroom is not going to be part of this. The ballroom is just so that Donald Trump has another performance space. I think he's building himself a nursing home. So to your point, when he is so fat that he can't walk, he'll just be wheeled in and out of it. And he'll have a hospital bed that goes up and down and a nice view.

But they haven't put that in the architect's plans. All right, can we get to the story that upset me the most, which is this terrible story that was in the New York Times about wild Mustangs, basically being sold, shipped across America? and then euthanays. Shipped to foreign countries. Well, I wish they were being shipped to foreign countries. They are shipped to foreign countries as horse meat. Oh, as horse meat, yes, but they're basically being euthanized. Yeah.

They're protected by the Constitution. They're being, let's be, they're being slaughtered. Oh, don't, don't. It's such an upsetting story. So just talk people through it for those who haven't read it. You know, I mean, I just, all I've done is read this story. in the times that there are wild horses have been a protected part of the American West for years and years and years.

And these are largely Mustangs, those beautiful brown and white horses, the stuff of Western legends. Right. And every administration has gone out of its way to protect these. And why wouldn't you except the Trump administration? Of course. And it's just round up these horses, which, you know, incur a certain expense to the federal government in the process of protecting them. So let's not incur that expense anymore. How do we get rid of that expense? We get rid of the horses. And that's what they're rounding up and sent to

slaughter. Let's think not just the cruelty of this, but let's think about the political sagacity of doing this. What are these? I mean, I've said a zillion times and of course that at bedrock the whole point about the Trump administration or the whole underlying fact of the Trump administration is stupidity. Every one of these people is a subpar stupid person. And this, I think how could you have a more stunning example of that? Let's kill the wild horses. What, nobody's going to notice? Do you think they end up as pat-A? Even the mega people are going to say. This is a good idea, kill all the wild horses. Do you think that they end up as paté on the all-you-can-eat-a-lago buffet?

No, we don't eat horse meat here. We export this. French eat horse meat. Yes, we export it to other countries where they eat horse meat. So Macron is spreading his morning toast with horse paté. Yes. Now, we are probably not going to export it to Canada, which has now levied a tariffs. Well, if we do, it will be 50% more expensive.

Yes, they're levying tariffs on the wild horse meat. Yeah. I mean, how does that end? But they should. So how does that end? So on the one hand, we've got Scott Besson saying anybody that does business with Iran is over, we're going to come after you. He was very short on specifics.

And he looked like he was just having a great time up there. I've never seen anyone look like he was enjoying himself as much as Scott Besson finally getting a bit of the spot. like to lecture Iran on how they couldn't do business with anybody and nobody else could do business with them and they would be watching. And then we have Canada that we're deliberately not doing business with and they're not going to do business with us. Well, let's stop on the Iran thing because I think that I think we're at another tipping point in a sense. Well, we can't bomb them because we've got no munitions left. So now we're going after what little money there is. Well, we're going to squeeze them. I mean, let's get this thing. Trump is, in his announcement, you know, we're going

to squeeze them economically the worst, the most. Nobody's ever seen anything like it. But we've already done that. We've already squeezed them to a level that we can't really squeeze them anymore. Can we squeeze them anymore? Well, the only way we could probably squeeze them more is if we got China to squeeze them, but what's in it for China to squeeze them? Well, and China was noticeably left out of Scott Besson's speech. Yeah, no, I think that this is, this is again, we have to say we're doing something. What is the headline? We need a headline on this. This is the headline. What will it mean? It will mean the same as all the other headlines have meant. It will mean nothing. It will mean absolutely nothing. We are stuck there. We cannot figure out a way

to get out of this. And the best we can do is look for the headline of the week that says we have a plan. When the real headline is, and again, this is the problem. The New York Times will give this as a headline. This is the plan. Instead of the real headline being, there is no plan. We're fucking stumped. We're just in a corner here.

We don't know what to do. It makes me so sad for America. It makes me so sad. This is also unnecessary. Trump was warned repeatedly about doing this war. Well, it's not just, I mean, I mean, yeah, sad for America. Trump is sad for America. Trump is sad for America.

I mean, I mean, this is, this is a person who went into a war. And God knows he's not the first president who have gone into a war, a completely uninformed about what he would encounter. So let me ask you something. think. George Bush went into a war completely informed, and that was catastrophic. It was catastrophic for the region. Well, I know. I don't think. I think that that's a misunderstanding. He was not, he was not informed. He did not know the key things that he had to know. And he was not only uninformed, but misinformed by by American intelligence agencies. Although, I mean, he may have, he may have

He may have been lying himself, lying to himself, lying to the American people. But there, he went into Iraq with a whole set of assumptions that proved to be obviously false. And then... So which is worse? Between the two of you, you've got Donald Trump surrounded by, you know, arguably the least competent cabinet, certainly in modern American history. And then you've got George Bush with Dick Cheney whispering in his ear, Donald Rompstfeld whispering in his ear, Colin Powell standing up and saying, you know, the Iraqis are about to, you know, get a nuclear weapon and they're funneling all these pipes and we've got photos of it. You've got Britain supporting them. It's post-9-11. There's a sort of jingoism in the air. You know, trillions of dollars spent, boots on the ground, terrible for the, the future of Iraq. Who's better between the two? Well, if the question is more than rhetorical and directed at me, I would say... Well, who else is it directed at that? Well, I could be rhetorical.

That was the nature of a rhetorical question. I'm being very specific. But I mean, to me, and obviously this is a long and historical conversation, which will go on for years and years and years. But I would say Bush. I mean, I mean, as much as as much as I think Trump is a unspeakable moron, the Trump administration, this one and the last one, is really the gang that couldn't shoot straight. And the Bush administration was people who did things, did things which resulted in just in, first thing, many, many lives lost. but an enormous amount of damage. I mean, essentially set the path for post-9-11, for the, for 20 years, more than 20 years,

25 years, a quarter of a century of the Middle East going wrong, almost in every aspect of our planning, of policy, of any effort to achieve peace. Right. And George Bush has somehow been rehabilitated as a contrast gainer to use your face to Donald Trump. Yeah. I mean, arguably they've both done an enormous amount of damage to America in the eyes of the world. But George W. Bush has been reframed as a contrast gainer.

Well, it's very easy to do that. In contrast to Donald Trump, the 300-pound buffoon, I think you're going to... Stuffing his face of the all-you-can-eat buffet. How many lobsters does he have on his plate with ham and surf and turf? I'm sure surf and turf is his favorite thing, right, other than the... Doesn't eat fish. Oh, he doesn't eat fish. Oh, that was on your list.

Yes. It doesn't eat fish. I did this list on substack of things that Jeffrey Epstein, random things Jeffrey Epstein had told me about his friend Donald Trump. And among those things was... Donald Trump doesn't eat fish. And his favorite vegetable is a potato. Of course it is.

I don't know. I mean, shrimp is obviously a fish, but yeah, that's often people refer to that as seafood. Seafood rather than fish. So maybe he eats, maybe he does eat shrimp in addition to looking like a shrimp, a giant shrimp. Well, and maybe there are shrimp tails left on the floor of the White House bedroom. Well, Michael, as always. But that's an interesting contrast between Trump and Bush, because they now represent opposite ends of the Republican Party. And that's partly why Bush George W. is now looking rather better than he did.

when he was in office was because he represents a more a more moderate, informed recognizable Republican Party, whether it's a better Republican Party

or not, I don't know. A classic neocon. And also, interestingly, both of them abstemious, neither of them drank. Well, George W. Bush did drink to vast excess. But like Pete Hagegerger's.

Seth, didn't drink on the job, and got up early and went for a run and did all the things that Trump didn't do. And they're the same age, right? So, Michael, I have a surprise for you. We have a new artwork from one of our viewers slash listeners, which I'm very pleased to unveil, and we'll go with our remarkable... A place in the gallery. A place in the gallery of our viewers' work. is going to become a Donald Trump memorial, an inside Trump's head memorial. Garden? Yeah, whatever.

Studio, studio, I think. Well, regular viewers of the Daily Beast podcast will know that we have a sort of Epstein-Trumpian monkey face that has become a favorite, and people always comment on it when they come in. I've got a new one for you. This is from a viewer called Frank Manson. I'm not going to say anything.

Okay. But it's Trump as Caligula and it's pretty impressive. Frank, thank you very much. We're going to give this a place of honor on our art shelf from viewers. Lots of gold. I get it, I get it. You get it. Trumpus.

I like this, Caius Trumpus. Yeah. We should call him Trumpus from now on. Heggers, Trumpers. Let's get more of these. Let's go. Well, that's up to you. Come on.

Let's fill up this place. Let's fill up this place. I think there are a lot of people out there doing artwork to express their creative... Anspo against... Yeah, creative angst. That's the better way of putting it. All right, we're going to go out on a limerick from Garfried. In the White House sat dawn in a huff, who made ballrooms and brands out of stuff.

While his wife sold her brand and Miss Harp was on hand. And Canada's Mark Carney said, enough. If you have been, thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. Ryan, John, Heather, Rachel, Neil. Well done. Somebody else? We'll be back on Thursday.

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