The Daily Beast Podcast - Why It's Time for Truth Bombs About Lindsey Graham

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

David Rothkopf joins Joanna Coles to tell unflinching truths about Lindsey Graham, the pilot fish senator to Donald Trump who died suddenly, and shockingly. Rothkpof unmasks the "odious" truth about the shape-shifting, two-faced senator. And he relates it to Trump himself and explains why it's time to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, about both men's moral turpitude. They examine the battle over Trump's attorney general nominee, fresh questions surrounding Ukraine, Iran, and the Strait of Hormuz, and why Trump's foreign policy continues to generate instability abroad. They also break down the latest fights over election integrity, the administration's attacks on the press, the unraveling of America's public health infrastructure, and what all of it reveals about the direction of the country. If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without having to leave your couch: https://ForThePeople.com/DAILYBEAST #ad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lindsay Graham was a kind of pilot fish. He attached himself to Trump's butt and did whatever Trump wanted him to do and took positions that were hideous. This is a closeted gay man, according to every rumor that ever existed in Washington, who was an active enemy of fundamental LGBTQ rights. This was a guy who was John McCain's best friend who supported cutting USAID money. And Lindsay Graham turned himself into a Trumpian figure at the expense of the people of South Carolina, who are his constituents, at the expense of the Senate, at the expense of the United States,

and the eulogy that Lindsay Graham wrote for himself. He valued expedience and power over principle and the interests of the people of the United States. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. It's Monday, so it must be David Rothpok. And we're going to be discussing Lindsay Graham. We're going to be discussing Mitch McConnell. Were you convinced by the proof of life hostage photo of him in his hospital bed, in his lobster chic, gingham shirt clutching a copy of the New York Times with his smiling wife at his side? Maga wasn't convinced.

We're going to be talking about cyclospora, the parasite, which is causing explosive, violent diarrhea up and down the east. coast. And of course, we're going to be talking about the Strait of Hormuz. Is it open? Is it closed? Who owns it? Nobody knows. David Rothkopf, of course, has an opinion. So let's get straight to it just before we do. I want to remind you to smash your subscription buttons. We are independent media and we appreciate your support. You can become a bee beast here, but your subscriptions show your support and we appreciate them. Okay, David Rothkopf, we both have explosive TDS. We're totally open about it. Let's get to it. David Rothkopf, welcome to the Daily Beast podcast. It's Monday. Let's kick off the week. How do we start the week? So much news.

Yeah, there's a lot of news. I think the big story in Washington is still people recovering from the shock of the death of Senator Lindsay Graham, apparently as a result of what is called an aortic dissection, which is essentially what happens when your heart explodes. Well, after his 10th visit to Keeve, so we've got to discuss... Oh, so you're one of those conspiracy theorists. You're already starting with the conspiracy theories. Well, I'm very curious. I mean, let's face it, we spent all last week in the conspiracy theory of Mitch McConnell, and I want to come on to Mitch McConnell after Lindsay Graham, but then, surprising everybody,

Lindsay Graham passed away on Saturday night shortly after talking to the president. The president said he may have been his last call. Yeah, yeah, and the president was like, you know, I talked to him and he sounded terrible, and he was very moved, of course, that he died and said, and the last thing he said was he really wanted to support the save America. Yeah.

I mean, he couldn't help, but try to turn, Graham's death into a political ad. You know, he's completely devoid of emotion. Lindsay Graham was like periodically his only friend. His only friend. All right. So, David, just to remind people who haven't joined us before, David Rothkopf is our global affairs columnist.

He's a former editor of foreign policy. He worked during the Clinton administration. And he, like me, has explosive. TDS this week, explosive TDS. So we're going to talk. From eating too many raw vegetables, but we'll get to that. We'll get to that. And we have a health tip for everybody at the end of the podcast.

So stay tuned if you want something that is very low lift and is going to improve your health. And we have it on the authority of great experts, a medical doctor, no least, no less. And we want to talk about Iran. What an earth is happening, though, who does control the strait of Hormuz? Because it ain't Donald Trump. what he says. All right. So, David, were you surprised, not least by Lindsay Graham's passing, but also the tributes that poured out to him. You have an excellent column in The Daily Beast, frankly, calling bullshit on some of it. And I'm going to read a little bit, because I know how much

you love it when I read your own words back to you. I love it. I love it. So sometimes I go to my wife and I say, please read some of my most reasons. It's foreplay for you, David. It's for play. No, it's the whole thing. Okay. I'm now going to read you part of your own column. The acceptance of those in the D.C. Club of Evil, because its proponents were pleasant to them at cocktail parties, is one of the greatest problems America faces. Morality takes a back seat in the Senate cloakroom and at Georgetown cocktail parties.

to the conviviality of the pampered lives in a bubble of DC insiders. They have lost sight of the fact that an evil man who would laugh at their jokes or send them a note on the occasion of a child's wedding or graduation is still evil. Harsh, David. Is that a bit harsh? I don't think it is harsh. And in fact, I think it carries with an important distinction. In the day-to-day, you know, hustle and bustle of Washington over the course of of decades and decades, somebody dies and you disagree with them on some political issues, you know, you could set that aside.

But this is not the time that we live in. Donald Trump is not a mere political figure with points of views that are merely political. Millions of people overseas, thousands of people at home are dying because of these policies. The U.S. rule of law is breaking down. The Justice Department is being taken over by Trump allies. People are being rounded up in the street and taking the concentration

camps who don't deserve to be. People are being killed as a consequence of that. There's a big story about that that's currently afoot. The Constitution is being undermined. There's a major effort underway to undermine our elections. This stuff is not politics. This is evil. And if you don't call it for what it is. And if you don't call out its advocates for what they're doing, then you normalize it. And you say this is politics as usual. And I saw, there's an article in the Atlantic by a columnist who I have the utmost respect for, and Applebaum, which she refers to Lindsey Graham as the consummate Washington politician of this era. And I find that kind of thing normalizing and dangerous.

Because what Lindsay Graham was, as some people pointed out, was a kind of pilot fish who attached himself to Trump's... Well, I'm sorry. A pilot fish. It's a great description. I don't think he would want to be called a pilot fish, but do continue. Well, but he attached himself to Trump's butt and did whatever Trump wanted him to do and took positions that were hideous.

And, you know, here's a lawyer who was about to ask. actively support Todd Blanche, Trump's lawyer, the guy who gave the part, you know, gave the better treatment to Galeigh Maxwell, the guy who, you know, has turned the Justice Department into Trump's personal revenge machine, and he was going to support him to be Attorney General of the United States. You know, this is a closeted gay man, according to every rumor that ever existed in Washington, who was an active enemy of fundamental LGBTQ rights. This was a guy who was John McCain's best friend who supported cutting USAID money,

which has led to many deaths around the world and undermining of U.S. soft power. I mean, he does seem to be one of those characters who just put his finger in the wind, followed the wind direction, and had no problem whatsoever changing position within three hours, right? He seems to be a man for whom, what mattered for him was power and proximity to power, and he did everything to get that. Right. He was as far as I could tell, and many people say, oh, he's a nice guy, because he was at a, I was at cocktail parties with him. He was a very charming guy. He would make jokes. He was one of the guys who would gossip about Trump behind the scenes,

you know. And so people were like, oh, yeah, he was my friend. friend. Well, is he your friend if what he is doing is supporting this terrible stuff, doing it on a day and a day out basis? Trump this morning, we record this on a Monday. Trump this morning was on Fox and said, well, yes, Lindsay spoke out against January 6th. Lindsay said, I'm done with Trump, if you recall. Yeah, of course. He said, but then he called me 40 minutes later. And he said, did I say that? What a mistake. So it was just a momentary blimp. And, you know, frankly, I think, Trump really could relate to that because I don't think Trump believes anything. I think Trump's whole political philosophy is to say whatever he needs to to get ahead in the moment. And if it's

completely contradictory or completely immoral, he's okay with it. And Lindsey Graham turned himself into a Trumpian figure at the expense of the people of South Carolina who are his constituents, at the expense of the Senate, at the expense of the United States. And I'm sorry, you know, we don't write our eulogies for people after they die. The people write their eulogies while they are living. And the eulogy that Lindsey Graham wrote for himself is he valued expedience and power over principle and the interests of the people of the United States. Imagine handing your car keys to the guy who just tried to steal your parking spot.

That's not a security plan, it's a donation. There's a reason you wouldn't trust the wrong person with something valuable. Just like there's a reason why Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting for the people over 35 years. With over $30 billion recovered for their clients, Morgan and Morgan knows a thing or two about fighting to get you the compensation you deserve. Hiring Morgan and Morgan is like hiring an army to go into battle. They've got more than a thousand lawyers and a hundred offices nationwide.

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You also make the point in your column, which I really recommend people read, about how what he understood, and this is obviously what Donald Trump is brilliant at, and perhaps Lindsay Graham learned it from Donald Trump, which is that it doesn't matter if you change positions, 180 degrees. What matters is you give someone a good quote because you're also helping the media kick the story forward with a good quote. So of course he gave that great quote in 2016. If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed and we will deserve it. The next thing we know, he couldn't be more supportive of Donald Trump as he rides to the White House in 2016. So what he understands is proximity to power and giving the media a good quote to stay front and center, which is also what Donald Trump likes.

He liked seeing cameras surrounding Lindsey Graham and Lindsay Graham talking. Do you think Trump understood that Lindsay Graham was a source about Trump behind his back? I'm sure he would because Trump was a source about Trump behind his back. Right. You know, Trump played the same game, you know, the whole John Barron thing, and, you know, he would leak things on himself. Because they realized that Washington, at its most fundamental, is transactional. And Washington does not believe the American people have any sort of memory at all. So we're always living in the news cycle.

And it's always a transaction about this news cycle. And as you say, Lindsay Graham knew that if he gave it. somebody a quote today, that, you know, he would get a more flattering article tomorrow, or he would just get exposure. And, you know, frankly, with Donald Trump, the way you gain points is that you get on Fox or you get in the New York Times or you go someplace and you speak Trump's words, you defend Trump. And Lindsey Graham knew how to do that. And that, you know, sometimes that involves saying, well, you know, there are people around Trump who say, you know, he is a little cuckoo. But, and here's my on the record quote, Donald Trump is absolutely right to

declare this illegal war. I mean, you know, to give you a sense of just how odious Graham could be, go back and listen to his comments in response to the murder of 150 schoolgirls in Iran in the first day of the war. He practically snickered in his response. He was incredibly callous about the death of people overseas. He was incredibly callous about his opponents. And I'm sorry. He just, you know, this is not the moment for giving him flowers or parades. Did you see his defense of Brett Kavanaugh at the confirmation hearings?

Yes, again, with a snarl, you know, with a curled lip. He was defending Brett Kavanaugh. And, you know, at the time, it was pretty gross. Brett Kavanaugh was being accused credibly by women of bad behavior. But, you know, we've also seen where that led. Graham had a lot of clout. And Brett Kavanaugh became a justice. And because Brett Kavanaugh became a justice, women lost their reproductive rights.

Right. And so, you know, we've got to connect. the dots here. And he's not just a performing monkey in the Washington circuits. He's somebody who produces consequences that we all have to live with. Well, what on earth is happening in the Republican Party, David? I mean, last week it was Mitch McConnell. The weekend it was Lindsay Graham. That's two seats now in play. And I mean, it might seem unseemly to talk about it when the man's not yet had a funeral except that the party itself is talking about it. Nancy Mace has said she's happy to put herself forward for his Senate seat, having lost her

primary. Nancy Mace is volunteering her services, as is the lieutenant governor. So there's going to be no shortage of people stepping forward to try and fill his shoes. What Trump almost immediately said, oh, I have a candidate for this. Of course he does. you know so he he was immediately playing on this that's it's not unseemly it's the way it works they're terrified the republicans have a very narrow majority in the senate with graham gone and mccannell sidelined it's down to a voter to there are four or five republicans who hate

trump at this point because he helped defeat them the john cornins of this world um or the tom tillis of this world there are other republicans who are on the fence or who are you know fighting the fights of their lives, Susan Collins. Well, and Bill Cassidy tossed from Louisiana. Right. Well, he was tossed out, and there are people like Lisa Murkowski who often go against Trump. So the Republican majority in the Senate is very, very fragile. And I would say further, at the moment, it's suspect.

And that matters. It matters because Todd Blanche wants to be confirmed as Attorney General. It matters because Trump is really pushing on the Save America Act, this act, that is essentially the Trump wants to cheat at elections act, which he wants to get passed in the next two weeks. Well, that's going to be real hard to do in these circumstances. And frankly, looking at Mitch McConnell propped up in the bed next to his wife. Well, I was going to say, did you feel reassured by this picture?

Well, obviously not. You know, I mean, you know, we didn't get video of him. We didn't get audio of him. We got him in a clean shirt that, you know, Elaine Chow brought from home, propped up in the bed, holding a newspaper, which was like a proof of life. Literally like a hostage video, right? I mean, although we couldn't see, I guess you could match the photo of it, but that was very strange that he literally was holding a newspaper. Well, but, but if, you know, it was, that was the purpose. The purpose was, hey, Mitch is still alive.

And then he writes, I didn't have a heart attack. I didn't have a stroke. I fell down, I need some rehab, but everything's going to be fine. Well, he said he had pneumonia too, which is often a fatal thing, unfortunately, for older people when they do have a fall. I mean, the most classic way to die at this age is usually you have a fall, you go into a hospital, you get pneumonia, and then you go on your way. I mean, it's a very common way for people to die as they get older.

Although, given the Republican Party's record of saying what the health of its people are, I remember Tom Kane, the representative from New Jersey, disappeared for six months. Right. You know, and we didn't know what was up with McConnell for extended period. Another potential classic way to die is that you die and then you serve another couple months in office. David, do you remember the Texas Congresswoman who it turned out, Kay Granger, she was called, who it turned out and moved into a residential care home and was still represent. her district, despite the fact her son said she had dementia.

Well, but this, you know, I mean, think of the long decline of Diane Feinstein. You know, there are other examples of this. And people are so, you know, our political leaders have, you know, sort of cut loose any hint of morality or ethics and are just into the arithmetic of power. Do I win? Do I have enough votes? and they're literally, you know, we're in, you know, weekend at Bernie's. It's like if you can prop the person up and put them in a clean shirt, they're on our team,

they're a vote we can count. And, you know, I mean, you recall, you know, the shenanigans that Speaker of the House Mike Johnson played when a new Democratic representative was elected, he wouldn't swear her in. Right. But as soon as a Republican was elected, he swore them in immediately. This is all, you know, this is, I mean, this is the mentality. of the Republican Party right now, it's cheating.

It's the same thing they want to do with elections. It's like, you know, they're going to bend the rules however they can. I mean, speaking of Mitch McConnell, the most egregious case of this was when Anthony Scalia died in February of an election year, Mitch McConnell said, oh, we can't elect his successor until the election takes place, we have to let the voters choose. And so Obama nominated Merrick Garland. McConnell killed it.

Didn't happen for a year until Trump was in office and could nominate somebody else. But when we got to the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, shortly before an election, McConnell said, oh, no, I'm jamming that through and got the approval for Amy Coney-Barratt in eight days after the election was even held, I believe. And so, you know, they just changed the rules. I mean, that's McConnell's legacy, dead or alive. McConnell's legacy. Dead or alive, wanted dead or alive.

Well, but that's, you know, we don't, how alive is he? We don't know. Well, he's 40% alive. Okay, it can be a senator. McConnell's legacy is they'll do whatever it takes to stay ahead. to win. And, you know, that's why Washington is such a disaster at the moment. It's why Washington's such a disaster. Well, it is curious, isn't it? I was up at Hyde Park at the FDR library over the weekend somewhere I shamefully hadn't yet been despite having lived in

New York for as long as I have, and just reminded of the skillful way that I think there are only four photographs of FDR in a wheelchair. And the incredible lengths they went to to show him standing, obviously because he'd had polio early in his life, but the incredible lengths they went to show that he appeared 100% fit and healthy. And obviously it didn't stop him getting elected four times. But, you know, it was constantly shown in a car. He was shown standing, but always holding onto the person next to him.

It was just a reminder of how, how these games have always gone on. Well, they've always go on. And remember, FDR also was, you know, accused of wanting to pack the court. And, you know, power games go on in Washington. The question is whether they're being played fairly and whether they're being played in the interests of the American people. And, you know, I think a case can be made that FDR was trying to act

in the interests of an America that was recovering from the depressive. or was trying to act in the interests of the United States at a time of war. And, you know, that's one thing. You know, a lot of what this administration does is, you know, try to produce more profits for Donald Trump, more profits for Donald Trump's kids, more profits for the Lutniks and the Whitkoffs, more benefits for foreign enemies and so forth.

And so I think you have to take this all, you know, together and say, well, yeah, they're playing the power game of Washington, but why are they playing the power game of Washington? They're bending the rules, but why are they bending the rules? And, you know, in this particular case, with Trump, with McConnell, with Lindsey Graham, they've bent the rules in ways that have been extremely damaging to our institutions, to democracy, to people in the United States, to our allies, to global stability. And so, yeah, I think they deserve a different kind of criticism than FDR might have gotten for trying to appear strong and vital. I wasn't aligning them politically.

I was just reminded of how health is essential to politicians and how they, you know, how they play to the media in terms of this. And they have lied about how, you know, the person who lied more directly about it, everybody knew FDR had gotten polio. as an adult and had struggled with it. Everybody knew that. Not everybody knew that John F. Kennedy had Addison's disease. And that he was very sick and was constantly taking medication. And that was kept as a secret. And, you know, the, you know, that, so, you know, this is, you know,

Dwight Eisenhower, I think, had five heart attacks while he was president of the United States. And, of course, Woodrow Wilson had a stroke. and may have been incapacitated for a period in which his wife, Edith, may have been the power behind the throne. So we've seen this before. And Lord, you know, I mean, wasn't there some weird thing with Trump this weekend where he started attacking Maggie, but he started attacking Maggie Haberman about her book and thus selling more copies of this book? I mean, hasn't she sold enough copies yet of this book with her and John? Jonathan Swan. But then he said, and I was back at Walter Reed and I had another exam and I did

great. And it's like, you were back? You were back after two months? Right. He was only there. Right. Not even two months, I think. Wasn't he there more recently than that? And he said he'd taken another cognitive test. He'd asked to take another cognitive test and he passed it. Passed it brilliantly. He aced it. He aced it. Nobody could ace it. He said Maggie Haberman could pass it. Jonathan Swan couldn't best the test. But, you know, the thing is the thing about Trump that is different from FDR, for his say, is that we know he's lying. He's not telling, you know, he doesn't tell us the truth about his height or his weight. He doesn't tell us the truth about what he's suffering from. He, you know, one of the, and a recent visit to Walter Reed, he went to see 22 specialists. Why? You don't go

see 22 specialists if you're the healthiest president who ever lived. you know, he, when he was, I'm sorry, forgive my air quotes, attacked in Butler, Pennsylvania, he never went to a doctor. We never saw a doctor's report from what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania. Donald Trump is a bit of a medical mystery because he wants to be a medical mystery. And you know that if he were great,

If he had a heart the size of Secretariat's heart, he'd be bragging about it. You think he's got a small heart, the racehorse? Yes, yes, I understand. I know, but he had the largest heart of any racehorse ever. Oh, we did. I didn't know that. 22 pounds. 22 pounds.

Wow. It was three times the size of any other racehorse's heart. And it was completely healthy. It's why he could run at the Belmont Stakes and win it in 1973, as you probably remember, as a tiny girl. But, no, but, you know, Donald Trump brags about everything. So you know that he's hiding the fact that he is not healthy. I'm sure the death of Lindsay Graham suddenly has Trump traumatized. Well, I'm sure he was traumatized last week by having to swap his grift force one for the old Air Force one.

because the new one isn't, and we haven't talked about this, and we should talk about this, the New York Times broke the story that he was having to, for security reasons, take the old plane, fly it back from the NATO conference in Turkey. And he was so furious about it. And apparently the times have been called in advance and asked not to run the story. They ran the story anyway, suggesting there were security issues here, and the Secret Service had mandated he changed planes. Trump then issued subpoena, or he didn't, but insisted the Justice Department issue subpoenas

for the reporters. He put Cash Patel on it immediately. Oh, Cash Patel, right, because he's your man. The triumph, the champion of justice in America. But here's the thing, even as we describe it and say, well, it was security reasons. That's not actually what the reason was. The reason was Donald Trump got this plane, which was super fancy and wanted to fly around in it.

So he pressured the Air Force and said, let me fly around in it, even without having the proper security provisions like anti-missile provision, installed in the plane. So then he goes and he wants to fly to Turkey to show off his plane to everybody. And, you know, Turkey is next to, I'm sure he doesn't know this, but it's actually next to Iran. Right. They share a huge border. Right.

And so, you know, then his people are like, well, you know, the Iranians have said they want to kill you, sir. You probably shouldn't fly on this plane. So then they had to get another Air Force one, fly that there. Then he flew the one that he was on to London to show it off to a bunch of other people. And so we are spending millions and millions of dollars because the big spoiled baby who's president of the United States wants to show off the Christmas present. that the people of Cutter gave him. And he is the one who created this. It was not the Iranians who created this.

And we've spent hundreds of millions of dollars as taxpayers re-kitting it, refitting it, except that it's not yet been fitted with the security standard that they need. And so we will spend hundreds of millions more. And then what's going to happen? Then, according to the deal that has been discussed, the plane will be given to the treasurer. to the Trump Presidential Library Foundation.

Okay, what a crock of shit that is. And Trump is going to be able to use it for the rest of a, you know. So Trump's going to get this $400 million gift with $400 million or more of upgrades on it, use it as president, and then get it as like a going away product, like a door prize. Hey, you were president.

You get a plane. Right. Other people get gold watches. He gets a plane. I mean, just remarkable, actually. And can we just, the one thing I did think was amusing, frankly, was the idea that Cash Patel was apparently on the tarmac in his jet, the FBI plane, going to see his country and Western girlfriend performing in Chicago

when he got the call from the White House that he was needed to investigate these reporters. So he could no longer go to see his girlfriend. And apparently panicked because he's always convinced he's about to be fired. because he is about to be fired, came herring back. Seriously, it's like girlfriend, one, is his plane, and he flies her around in it. He flies out to go to these things. And, you know, every time he gets an assignment like this,

like, yeah, violate the First Amendment, go after the New York Times for reporting the story honestly. He's like, yes, sir, do I get to keep the job longer, sir? Want to buy, want a free bottle of my cash betel bourbon, sir? I mean, he is such a joke, such a tool. And the reason he's in the job is because nobody else would do this. He's the only person who is like, oh, yeah, you want to go after the New York Times for doing their job? Sure.

And I would say, by the way, you know, it works some of the time. They get intimidated. I don't know if you saw this article. It was a really important article in the New York Times this weekend. their big story over the weekend about how Marco Rubio is single-handedly running Venezuela. And it's, you know, they call them the viceroy and all the money that Venezuela gets from exports

goes through the Treasury Department. And we determine, like an allowance, what they get to keep. And we get to determine who gets to invest in Venezuela and we push away foreign companies and we only give the contracts to U.S. companies. nowhere in the article did it say, what companies? Are they close to Trump? Does any of this money go to anybody close to Trump? Do the Venezuelan people like this? Is the intervention that the U.S. government did post the earthquake solving the problems created by this earthquake where

thousands and thousands of people died? Is the fact that we just essentially took the Maduro non-democratic regime, the autocratic regime, and we just said to the head of it, Either you do do what we want or you're out, and she said, okay, I'm going to do whatever you want. Venezuela is run like a dictatorship still, except the dictator is not Maduro. It's Marco Rubio who won't even talk about it. But none of those questions were in the New York Times article. And to me, that's just, you know, that's egregious. And you've got to ask yourself, why not?

And by the way, as a Washington insider, meaning I've lived here for 35 years and been involved with this, I wonder who the source of that story was and why there was a story that essentially came out that said, well, the administration doesn't like to talk about this, but Marco Rubio is super powerful. And the U.S. is really in control here and doesn't include any awkward questions. As I read it, I thought this story was fed to them. Right, by Marco Rubio. Or by Marco Rubio's team. Or Stephen Chung or some character. So I had a chat with someone last night who had been close to some Iranian sources, who just said that the Iranians are pretty much laughing at Donald Trump. They know they have him over an oil barrel with the straitians.

of Hormuz, that they have no intention of giving up their leverage, and that this thing is just going to go on and on and on. And over the years, they've wondered what would happen if they decided to start messing with the Strait of Hormuz, and Donald Trump gave them the perfect entree. And of course, we've gone from before the war where the Strait of Hormuz was open, and 20% of the world's oil, as we all know now, was flowing in and out perfectly comfortably, and now we've got oil prices up again and Iran in the driving seat. The whole thing is a fiasco. And the analysis that you just offered is exactly right.

And you and I have been talking about this now for months. And we said once they talked about the MOU that was behind this, you and I said, this is not a peace deal. This is an agreement to have a discussion about someday having a peace deal. There is no peace deal. We are still in war. It's just intermittent war, and Trump has not learned the lesson. And the lesson is he cannot, by virtue of force, get the Iranians to do what he wants

them to do. Bibi said, all we have to do is attack them. They'll do what we want. It didn't happen. Since then, every time they won't do what we want, Trump says, well, okay, they're going to have a bad night. We're going to really go after them. This weekend, he said, well, if they assassinate me, the order is in place for

a thousand missiles to rain down a... The reality is they don't. don't care, they know they can survive that, or at least they don't care enough to make them stop what they're doing. So they then said, well, we're going to control the Strait of Hormuz. And then this morning, Trump, on Fox, Monday morning, Trump said, we are going to take over the Strait of Hormuz and we are going to get paid for it. So how could we even do that, David?

What is the setup for the military, for America to actually do that? because he makes it sound super easy, but of course it's not. It's not going to happen. It's complete baloney, okay? Because what you'd have to do is you'd have to have a permanent naval force there, permanent air force there. You would have to get on one side of the strait. You'd have to get on the other side of the strait.

You'd have to claim Iranian land. You'd have to get every other country in the world to agree to the terms of this kind of thing so that we are not then instantly the adversary of every country in the world. you'd have to come up with a scheme to charge for this that did not disrupt the entire cost of oil in the global economy. You'd have to decide where it goes. You'd have to make it, you know, decide how to do it in a way that was even legal. It's just Trump BS. You know, it's just Trump riffing on Fox.

And, you know, they all sit there like handpuppets. Go, yeah, Mr. President, you are extremely strong. But it's not going to happen. The reality is, though, with regard to Iran, that we are desperate to get it back to square one. And Marco Rubio committed the ultimate Washington sin this weekend of actually saying, well, our job right now, what we're working to do is to get everything back to essentially the way it was before the war started. Before we wasted all this money, before we spent $100 billion and, you know, servicemen's lives. Right.

and servicemen's lives and drove the price of oil up. It created a global economic controversy, you know, crisis and destabilized the entire region. So essentially what Marco Rubio was saying was that we are going to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to dig a hole and to fill it back up again, which is insane malpractice. And I saw it and I immediately went on a blue sky because to me it was crazy and I said, yeah, folks, let's make this guy the president of the United States. Let's make Marco Rubio the man who presided over this, not to mention, you know, the gutting of the State Department. You know there are 115 ambassadorial posts that are vacant at the moment? He's gutted the State Department.

USAID, we know, is causing millions of deaths because they shut it down. that's Marco Rubio Well I was out right To your point about 150 Ambassadorial posts currently open I was ranting about this At a Over dinner recently with some people

And they pointed out that actually It's always the staff that do the jobs And has anybody noticed the fact that these ambassadors are missing So I just offer that to you to I just whoever you are with Don't have dinner with them again That's just a crock of shit It's like saying you don't want to have a high-level emissary of the president who can go and do high-level things.

Does the staff do things? Yes. Is the deputy chief of mission capable of being the acting chief of mission? Yes. Is that ideal? No. Why would you take 115 players off the field who advance U.S. interests, who report to the president? You know, when you become an ambassador, you'll have a protocol rank above that of the cabinet

because you report directly to the president of the United States. So that gives them enormous power, and they just didn't want to have it. Because Trump thinks the only diplomatic tool that matters is his cell phone, that he talks to people, that he solves problems, that he needs four or five people, people around him to sort of do the paperwork once he does it. But we don't need a state department. We don't need intelligence services. We don't even need a military. We just need Donald Trump. He'll take all the burden and he'll solve all of our problems. And of course, it's insane. You know, there are 8 billion people in the world. There are, you know, thousands and thousands of

world-class problems we have to solve on any given day. And you can't run a foreign policy or a national security policy or a country the way he's doing it. He's running it like the Trump organ. You guys have talked about this on your other shows. Donald Trump runs the United States government like he ran the Trump organization, which contrary to popular belief was a small company with a few employees that was run like a mom and pop shop.

It was, he didn't, he never ran. some big organization with lots of people in it. And certainly when he did, you know, they would go bankrupt. So we're in a bad way. And I would just advise your friends not to dismiss the role that's played by diplomats doing diplomacy. Just going back to Lindsay Graham's last trip to Keeve at the end of the week, he seemed to be confident that he and his democratic ally, Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut,

could deliver an aid deal to Ukraine. He said to President Zelensky, Donald Trump now thinks you're a winner. He sees you as a winner, having, of course, berated him roundly and humiliated him at the White House when he came over in February. Do you think that the aid will actually get there? What do you think happens to the bill that he was trying to bring? It's going to be harder to get it through. Graham was one of the few people in the Republican Party who would take the side of Ukraine in these discussions. Of course, he would also support cuts in aid sometimes because he was Graham. You know, he would be on both sides of these issues. And part of what he wanted to do was to strengthen U.S. sanctions on Russia. And I think, you know,

having talked to some people in Washington about this in just the past 24 hours, I think there is a sense that with Graham gone, the likelihood that that is going to happen is lower. So, you know, will there be a little more aid to Ukraine? Yeah, there may be a little bit more aid to Ukraine. Remember, Trump at the anchor summit last week said, oh, we're going to give you the rights to build you on patriotness. He wants to do something for them, and I think he will do something. There is a small group of Republicans and the majority of Democrats who want to. to continue to provide aid for Ukraine, although we do it at a much, much, much lower level

than the Biden administration did it. But Trump hates punishing Vladimir Putin. And so the idea that Graham was apparently advocating, which is greater sanctions on Russia, that may die with him. And of course, that's one of the reasons that those conspiracy theories were out there swirling around

because, you know, when people do stuff that piss us off, you know, Putin, they fall down the stairs or they, you know, get plutonium poisoning or something. And now, you know, there are a lot of very smart, qualified people who said, don't, don't suggest this. It suggests Ukraine couldn't protect him or don't suggest this because it suggests Russia is all powerful. You can't kill these rumors. And as was the case with Mitch McConnell and is the case in, you know, Donald Trump's Washington where they wage a war on the press and the First Amendment. And fake news and they spread all sorts of propaganda on their own. We live in a time where Trump stock and trade is conspiracy theories. Right. And so, you know, the reason that Donald Trump,

you know, all these conspiracy theories crop up is because Donald Trump has created an information ecosystem, an environment where it's much more likely than ever before. There used to be skepticism about these things. But now one of the people pumping out conspiracy theories, foreign governments intervened in the 2020 election, they're against me. They did this. They did that. It's Trump. And his whole administration is creating the environment where these things are more likely, not less likely. Let's release the files on the aliens from outer space or whatever. And that's, you know, that, he has done damage to the United States in that way too, because nobody knows what to believe, which is, of course, exactly as he wants it.

Well, and Laura Luma, who is a MAGA influencer, whatever that means at this stage, and has, you know, over the years drawn up lists of people that she thinks Donald Trump should fire because she seems to spend her time going back through people's social media opposed she finds people she think aren't loyal to Donald Trump posted this weekend. Alexander Dugin, one of Putin's advisors, recently called for Senator Lindsey Graham to be killed. He said the world would be better without Graham. Yesterday, Lindsay Graham was in Ukraine, meeting with Zelenskyy and called for more sanctions against Russia and pledged more U.S. support for Ukraine.

One day later, Lindsay Graham is dead. There needs to be an investigation. And then she copies into her post from Alexander Dugin, his post, better to kill this guy. He is the problem for Trump. The world will be better off without him. Well, look, Dugan is a deranged maniac. And Laura Lumer is a deranged maniac. And, you know, one deranged maniac plus another deranged maniac does not get you any closer to the truth.

It serves the Russians to circulate stories like this. because it makes them look all powerful. Right. And it makes, you know, they think it, it sends a message to their enemies. So whether it's true or not, therefore, it. And having people close to the president promote these things, you know, I mean, I haven't heard the president reprimanding her for circulating the story either. You know, this is just part of the information environment they want because they don't want people to trust.

things. And they want to be able to get to November and say, well, you know, we have some reports that foreign governments interfered in these five states. We're impounding the election machines, and we're going to do an investigation. And we'll get back to you on the results after Donald Trump dies. And of course, because of the slaughter decision by the Supreme Court, the president, I mean, two weeks ago, less than two weeks ago, the president now has the right to fire the head of any agency. So the four people, the two Democrats and the two Republicans, leading the election agency, the independent election agency, have been fired or left. Well, this is an agency. There are several election agencies. This is an agency that would provide assistance to the states.

And so by essentially decapitating the agency, he is essentially saying that from now through the elections, this agency is going to be of no help to the states. He wants to weaken the states. He wants to increase his own influence over these elections. He's, you know, he wants to have the director of national intelligence get involved in these things and other people who are part of his group of flunkies. Lord knows the reason Cash Patel probably still has his job, after all, the insanity is that Trump thinks that he can send him in before or immediately after an election, and he'll arrest anybody because Cash Patel has no principles and doesn't care about justice. And so, you know, that's, you know, this is all part of an authoritarian move.

It is directly out, as some people might say, of the authoritarian playbook. We weaken the institutions of government, weaken the credibility of those institutions, weaken the credibility of the press, endow the leader with more and more power, and the ability to send any message he wants without fear of contradiction, and you end up with an authoritarian. And clearly, that's the direction Donald Trump wants to take this.

Cash Patel posted last night about Lindsay Graham that the FBI is assisting local authorities and has made every necessary, resource available, which also plays into the conspiracy theory that he didn't die of an aortic dissection from heart disease, which is what his father died from heart disease two years younger than Lindsay Graham, the head of the FBI playing into the conspiracy theories. Well, you know, this is, you know, if there is the reason Cash Patel does something, and there's a choice that it's as a result of a carefully thought out strategy or because he's

an idiot. It's almost always because he's an idiot. Well, and also he doesn't want to go back to his previous life, hawking t-shirts, because there was no plane with it. David, there was no plane with the hawking t-shirts. Right. And now he could hawk what, cash bourbon. But, but, you know, I think cash Patel included that line in his, his social media post to say, I'm involved, I'm involved, I'm doing things here. And not with any consciousness. about, you know, investigating, you know, or the people take the story of these investigating rumors that the Russians were involved as a result,

because he's an idiot. I mean, literally, he's an idiot. Cash Patel is publicly, you know, on stage. There is a long track record. And I think we all can draw our own conclusions at this point that if there is a stupid way to do it, Cash Patel will choose that way. Right.

Right. So we do have, for those who are themselves feeling a little bit more conscious of their health because of all this recent illness and death around us, a tip from Dr. Oz. Can we play the tip? But you got to do squats right away. Don't lean forward. You want to sit back like your bottom is about to touch the toilet seat. Like you're about to go back like that, touch. Practice it. It'll come natural. I can just assure you that if you walk along a New York street and you suddenly stop and do 10 squats, people are going to have you committed. No one should be advised to do that in New York City, though I appreciate him trying to help us with cheap exercises, free exercises for our knees and hips and ass. Well, I think this is another one of these stories that is unfortunately timed, unfortunately laid out there and sends the wrong message. because if you walk down a street in New York City or any city in the East Coast of the United States right now and see somebody doing squats, it's probably because they have projectile diarrhea. It's because...

I hope not. I hope not. But there is this outbreak of projectile diarrhea that comes from, you know, vegetables. I watch vegetables. And so I think it's called cyclosporin or something to that effect. It's a scary thing. And 3,000 people. have gotten it, started in Michigan, spread around, I'm in Maryland, it's here, it's up and down

the East Coast, and why do we have it? Why do we have it, Dr. Oz? We have it, Dr. Oz, because this administration has cut back on food inspectors. This administration has cut back on programs with CDC to investigate the spread of such diseases. This administration is against people getting medication. There is, by the way, folks, if you get this, there is a medication you can take that can help you with it. Because if you don't, you could end up with projectile diarrhea for weeks and weeks, which sounds bad, right? Sounds terrible. It sounds absolutely terrible. It is, but it is such a signature that Dr. Oz is like, well, you know, if you're walking down the street, squat. But he doesn't understand why you're going to squat. He doesn't understand that your response. for the squatting, that there is going to be an outbreak of squat. He even said in that thing,

well, squat like you're about to get on the toilet. Holy mackerel. Dr. Oz, read the room. Understand the role you're playing with RFK Jr., making America sicker, because that's what they're doing. They're making America sicker. And it's gotten to the point that even some Republicans who put them in, including, you know, Cassidy, who's a doctor who should have known better, are starting starting to go, okay, this is too far. This is too far. People are sick. People are dying. And we're lucky that it's this disease which is spreading slowly. We don't inspect things like meat and food the way we did before. And so there are outbreaks of listeria. There are outbreaks of other kinds of things. Because all of the advances that have been made in public health,

and by the way, I used to be on the board at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, which is the best school of public health in the country. And they used to say proudly that 94, 95 percent of the gains in life expectancy in the 20th century were due to breakthroughs in public health, like closing sewers and having people wash their hands in restaurants. And they're reducing this. They're rejecting science and they're turning the clock back so that you not only end up with women having the rights that they had in the 19th century and people of color having the voting rights they didn't have in the 19th century. But all of us living with the health conditions we had in the 19th century when, I point out,

the average life expectancy of American male in 1900 was 46 years. Well, it's gone up. I mean, we now have a record life expectancy, to be fair, don't we? I mean, I think the thing that's so frightening about this bouching. of sort of violent food poisoning is that it can often take two weeks to sort of take hold. So it's not like you can say, oh, I was eating this last night. It must have been the, you know, it must have been the calamari. It's unclear what's led to it, which is, to your point, why it's so essential to have a proper

network of food inspectors. have public health, have epidemiologists that go and investigate these things, that find out where it started, that figure out how to stop it, that use the tools that we've got to protect us from these things. But, you know, you've got these clowns like, you know, this TV doctor who's got a senior role in this administration, because Donald Trump is such an idiot that all he can do is cast people for senior roles that he once saw on TV,

which is why we've got a TV guy running the Department of Defense and a TV guy running this important function in Elf. And why he said, if somebody asked him over the weekend, you know, who's going to be the best candidate in 2020? And he said, well, I don't know that there are any candidates because none of them are attractive enough. And you've really got to have the right look and feel. And it's like, he's like the executive producer of the United States of America.

Is that the president? He's just producing this reality show and he's using the standards he had when he produced his crappy reality show. Well, it's unquestionable that you and I have proudly got explosive TDS, David, proudly suffering from explosive TDS. I'm proud that Stephen Chung will come after us

and I just want to say, I've washed my hands, it doesn't go away. I will have explosive TDS until we are rid of the source of the TDS. David, it's always, good to talk to you. You've set us up with righteous anger for the week and we'll watch and see, if I were Chuck Grassley, I'd be followed by a doctor at all points at this stage. I think he's, is he the oldest sitting senator, I think, at 92, 93? He is, he is at the moment the oldest sitting

senator and, you know, he's not exactly compass mentis all the time, but, you know, he is, a very influential guy despite his weakness. But if people take one message away from this week's show, what is it, Joanna? Wash your hands. Wash your hands. And every few steps do 10 squats.

Just don't be surprised if in New York, everybody gives you a very wild birth or you possibly get arrested. You possibly get arrested. This is from Dr. Oz, who I suspect now rides around in very comfortable black ministerial cars and hasn't had to walk through any city recently, despite his pull-ups at the jungle gym, and definitely wash your hands if you've been doing pull-ups at the jungle gym.

Definitely. Definitely. That's all you take away from this rich, this rich bounty we've offered here this week. Texted discussion. And also a recommendation to read your column, because it is a very good moment, as you say, people don't write their eulogies after they've died. They write them as they live them. And Lindsay Graham wanted to be very close to power and would do whatever it took.

As you said, he became a pilot fish. He did. And there are deeper, more serious issues here. I write a substack called Need to Know. People can find it on substack. And yesterday I talked about what I think the underlying problem we've got here, which is an issue of morality. and the fact that we've just made so many compromises with our leaders and with our system around issues of morality,

that it has opened the door for people to do truly evil things and we rationalize it. And that's the slippery slope that has gotten other countries into deep, deep trouble. And it's something we have to be aware of. Okay, well, David, we'll be back next Monday, as long as you and I don't fall prey to explosive, poison. vegetables, but hopefully TDS will act as a vaccine. TDS, the Daily Beast will act as a vaccine. Read the Daily Beast. You should, you'll be okay.

It'll be okay. It'll make you healthy. Okay, now we do have a couple of questions for you, actually, David. One of which says that you have a chicken behind you. It says, David, I love the chicken on the shelf behind you. Is there a reason you could disclose or not for displaying it? And that's from someone called U-Tube, damn it, Janet. Rather a good name.

What is it? Well, Janet, this is actually a fish, no chicken, although it could be a tuna fish, which could mean it was chicken of the sea. But it is not, I do have other birds here because my wife gives me lots of little animals. And so, for example, I have little ducks. Okay, little wooden ducks. given little wooden ducks and I have little owls. Right.

And I have even a little parrot. So you're right that I'm surrounded my birds. I'm getting the impression that your desk is just full of chachkas. It is kind of a chachka zoo, actually. It's only animal ch ch ch chachkas. Okay. And another question here from someone called Patricia Garrity, 8-2-0. My question for David, will you promise to shepherd us through the rest of this knucklehead's term?

I promise. That's why I'm here. And I feel that the safest place to ride out the rest of this term is within the safe confines of the Daily Beast. I think that's possibly true. And then we've got another question here from someone, Susie Q's 1170. Does David think Gillen Maxwell will be pardoned? If so, when? and who will Trump say was responsible?

If I had to bet, I would bet she will be pardoned, that it will be late on a Friday night among 500 other pardons, that there will be some conclusion by Todd Blanche or some other character that said there was some unfair part of the process for her prosecution and that Trump will say what he says with every pardon, which is the person was treated unfairly, very unfairly.

and that she will disappear. Now, having said that, if I were Galane Maxwell, I would be very, very afraid to turn my back on all the people who are involved in the extended Epstein conspiracy because there's a long track record of people who are involved with that coming to untimely ends. Ooh. A chill went down my spine as you said that. So you think she may be pardoned in a job lot of

pardons late on a Friday, probably before a holiday weekend. I mean, that would be them sticking to their plan. It will not, I'll tell you one thing, though. It will not happen before Todd Blanche is confirmed. And if Todd Blanche is rejected and he's just acting attorney general, and so he never is going to face confirmation again, then we're in the pardon zone. Then we're, then we should keep an eye at. So it's Todd Blanche's Senate confirmation hearings this week. We've got one senator out, Lindsay Graham. We've got Mitch McConnell, who's not well enough. Will he be, is Mitch McConnell able to vote remotely? Do you have to be there in person to vote? You know, that's an interesting issue. And Historically, you're not able to vote remotely.

And then during COVID, there were some exceptions, I think, made that allowed people to vote remotely. I don't know that you're allowed to vote remotely in the Senate right now. But, you know, these guys bend the rules all the time. I don't know that we are fully sure that Mitch is fully compisementous all the time either. So I don't know that he will be in a position to do that. I think it's more likely that the governor of South Carolina. Carolina plop somebody down in Lindsay Graham's seat super fast. Well, they'd really need to do it today or tomorrow, wouldn't they?

Because they've got four seats in the Senate. Two of them now are suspended. All they need is three Republicans to go against Todd Blanche and he's not in. Well, that's right. And I think, you know, because the Republicans tend to vote in a disciplined way, the odds that he gets in are higher than they should be. Because the odds that he should be confirmed are zero. Because of the Galane Maxwell thing, because of his representation of Trump,

because of his use of the Department of Justice against Trump's enemies, for a hundred reasons, he should not be conferred. But because Graham is dead, it is more open to question than it was. And I don't know, you know, if I had to bet on Polly Market as to whether there would be a replacement for Graham before there was a funeral for Graham, I bet on the replacement coming first. Okay. Well, David, we'll be back next Monday to see if you were right and to see whether or not Todd Blanche can swing his legs from the Attorney General's chair. Go well, David. You paint a dark picture. I thought we were in bad shape with the projectile diarrhea,

but Todd Blanche's Attorney General is much worse. Much worse, much worse. David, I'll see you next week. See you next week. I love David Rothkoff. What better way to set up the week than just reminding ourselves of how we need to remain focused. Do you think we should fill those ambassadorial jobs?

Why isn't Trump filling them with his friends? That would be my question. That feels like a kind of fun job to give someone that you've been in business with over the years. Feel free to comment on what you think. Have you been suffering from cyclospor? In which case, how did you get rid of it? We'll be back next Monday

and I'll be back tomorrow with Michael Wolfe going deep, dark and dank inside Trump's head. Big thank you to our production team, John Romero, Ryan Murray, Rachel Pasa, Heather Pissarro, Neil Rosenhaus and Max Shaw, the intern. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.