The Daily Beast Podcast - Why King Charles Must Abdicate Now: Andrew Lownie

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

In this debut episode of The Royalist, host Tom Sykes dives straight into the biggest royal scandals of the moment with a blockbuster interview featuring royal biographer Andrew Lownie, who explains why the fallout from Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein revelations could pose an unprecedented crisis for King Charles III and the monarchy—and gives his extraordinary solution. Iconic fashion editor Plum Sykes reports after the Cheltenham Festival with behind-the-scenes royal fashion and society gossip, while journalist Paula Froelich spills the latest tea on Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. Finally, Australian commentator Shauna Kay joins Tom for a fiery “Royal Roast” breaking down the backlash to Meghan and Harry’s controversial Australia plans. It’s a jam-packed first episode full of scoops, sharp commentary, and the royal drama everyone is talking about. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Generations of intrigue, unbelievable family feud, jaw-dropping scandals, crazy traditions, and of course, corgis. The British royals have it all. And now you can too, with the newest addition to our Daily Beast podcast line up, the Royalist. Each week, veteran royal correspondent Tom Sykes and his team of informed insiders serve you every bit of royalty you could possibly want. If it's happening behind palace gates, they are going to. to be talking about it. Enjoy this episode and join them in the throne room for every episode by heading to beast. pub forward slash royalist pod

for new episodes on YouTube every Tuesday or catch them next day on all major podcast platforms. Enjoy. The palace have been caught on the back foot because they never expected these Epstein releases to be made. On one hand, Charles is saying, we'll fully cooperate with the authorities and everyone should speak freely.

and there are these letters going out reminding people not to speak. I just wonder if what's been done for public consumption isn't actually what's happening in reality. Charles has to fall on his sword and accept that he has to take the blame for this. When you say fall on his sword, do you mean that Charles should or would or will be forced to take the nuclear option and like his great uncle, Edward VIII, before him, be forced to abdicate? Is that where this story ends? Welcome Royalists. Hello, I'm Tom Sikes, and this is your new weekly destination for a staggering corneocopia of royal scoops and scandal.

I've been writing about this extraordinary family. The Windsors, the Mountbatten Windsors, the Battenbergs, who knows at this stage, for almost three decades. And that's no exaggeration because my first job, my first royal job was covering the funeral of Princess Diana when I was working at the Evening Standard in 1997, my first jog in journalism, so that dates me a bit. Now I'm bringing all my knowledge and insight to this fabulous new podcast. In all the years I've been covering this story, I've never seen such an extraordinary disconnect between what's being reported in the papers and on the legacy media news websites and what's actually going on on the ground. If you read the British newspaper websites and the global media that inevitably recycles and repackages a lot of their content,

you would be forgiven for thinking that everything is absolutely brilliant with the British Role family, that the Andrew problem has been packed up into a nice little box and tucked away, that everybody loves Queen Camilla, that King Charles has a kind of mild cold, and that the royal family are as popular as they ever were in the time of Queen Elizabeth II. In fact, the royal family is in the middle of its gravest crisis in well over 100 years. And here on the Royalist, I'm going to be telling you the absolute truth about that, free of censorship, but also staying a long way away from the fact-free conspiracy theories peddled on some other corners of the internet by people who frankly have no sources and no contact.

Without further ado, let's get stuck into today's show. And here's the Royal Rundown. First of all, we have our Andrew update. And I'm thrilled to say that we have none other than Andrew Loney, the legendary biographer whose book entitled Brought Down the Ex-Prince Andrew. Andrew is joining me for a blockbuster interview on the unthinkable sacrifice King Charles must make to save the monarchy. Then we have royal fashion with Plum Sykes. The Royals were outlooking chic at the Cholkham races last week and we had a spy in the camp. None other than my sister, Plum Sykes, the legendary fashion editor and Vogueat. She'll tell us which royal characters struck up a very surprising friendship and has all the details on what sounds like a very exciting fight in the Guinness Tent.

Then tea with Tom. I'll be joined by my old friend, an ace showbiz reporter, Paula Frolic, to discuss the latest jaw-dropping revelations about Harry and Megan. And we will end our show with our Royal Roast, where we are excited to roast the hell out of Megan and Harry with the help of top Aussie YouTuber Shauna Kay,

who you will know from her show The Vintage Read, who joins me from the land down under to discuss the horrified reaction in Australia to Megyn Harry's pay-per-play renter royal tour. So without further ado, let's get stuck into our first topic of the day, which is the Andrew Update. So joining me now is Andrew Loney, whose book entitled Brought Down Prince Andrew.

Andrew is joining me for this blockbuster interview to celebrate the launch of the new Royalist podcast and I'm so delighted and thrilled to have him with us. Andrew, let me ask you a question that lots of people have been asking you lately. How does it feel to be proved right about absolutely everything? Well, that's very nice to say every single thing. I'm sure there's some things I didn't get right, but I'm relief, really, because one always knows, as you know, when you do some work that you can't always be sure of your sources.

I mean, everything had to be verified. and I did trust them, but you're always a little bit nervous that someone has got a bit, has got the wrong end of the stick. But yeah, I know it is good to see that the stuff that I found has been backed up by what's been released in the Epstein papers. I mean, people, you know, couldn't believe, for example, that the queen had protected Andrew. I was vilified for saying that.

That now seems to be pretty much generally accepted. And I think the role of the daughters was seen, they were seen as collateral damage and as innocence, tainted by their parents. I think people are now coming to be aware of just how involved they were. So, yeah, it's relief. But of course, it's always good to be proved that one's research has proved to be accurate. Andrew, how involved do you think the Queen was? I mean, do you think she had general or specific warnings about what Andrew was up to?

Well, I mean, there was a lot of stuff in the press going back 15 years, not just about Epstein, but his time as a trade envoy. And, you know, she couldn't have failed to have read this stuff or being briefed about it. I know that MI6 officers and the heads of the foreign office went to certainly her private secretary. And I'm sure he would have briefed her as well. The fact is that, you know, every time there was some allegation about, you know, Epstein, Andrew was given some new honor or a new sign of endorsement. and I think she was sending at a signal that she didn't believe these stories

and her son was innocent. I mean, the lied from the palace now is that he lied to everyone and they were taken in. But there was plenty of information that was in the public domain that they could have obtained themselves from just talking to people. I mean, the palace is filled with ex-spooks, for example, but protection officers would have reported back. So I have no doubt that she knew a lot, as did King Charles. You know, he's been on the throne now several years.

He was briefed by her in the last few years of her reign. I mean, he was very much a sort of co-rein. So I just don't accept any of these arguments that, you know, we were all, you know, caught on the hoof and we had no idea. And in fact, I'm getting stories of other members of our family talking to friends and saying we're very worried about Andrews' associations with Epstein and other people. And those are those are conversations going back to 2011.

So, you know, we also know that people who came to the palace with stories, journalists, you know, there were denials, there were legal threats, there were pressure put on them to withdraw access. It's just totally inconceivable that they didn't have a full, well, a pretty full picture of what he was up to. Andrew, I suppose the key question for Charles is, what did he know and when did he know it? And, of course, that's been such an important question in scandals going back to Watergate and beyond. It's the question that protesters were asking the other day outside the Commonwealth Service with their banners and their flags. And what do you think about this? What do you think he knew and when did you know it?

Do you think there was a cover-up for Andrew? And do you think that there is some radical step that Charles could take to finally draw a line under this whole mess? Yeah, well, I think, you know, that the palace had been caught on the back foot because they never expected these Epstein releases to be made. You know, they didn't do anything when Sarah Ferguson was caught sending access to Andrew in 2010. They're all serious occasions that they didn't do anything, which are widely reported, the Selman Turk case where Andrew had over a million pounds

into his bank account he couldn't account for. I think the interesting thing is that when my book came out, and I think, you know, there was quite a lot of chapter and verse there. Again, nothing happened to Andrew. the idea was that we would just sit this out and the problem would go away. And I think it's only because there's drip drip feed and just the wealth of material that is now emerged in pretty clear black and white with all these emails that they've been forced to do anything. And their problem is having denied it before, they've just got to keep denying it.

I mean, it is a cover-up and the cover-up is proving to be as bad as the initial crimes. So, I mean, all they can do, I think, is either to hope that to and warn the Middle East takes everyone's attention away from this, but I don't think that's going to work, or they accept that basically Charles has to fall on his sword and accept that he has to take the blame for this. And William takes over. When you say fall on his sword, do you mean that Charles should or would or will? be forced to take the nuclear option and, like his great uncle, Edward VIII, before him, be forced to abdicate? Is that where this story ends? Well, I mean, he's saying that the law must take its course. And, you know, if he has perverted the course of justice, then I'm afraid, you know, he has to, he has to bite the bullet and accept responsibility. I mean, I'm sure the firewalls are all

going up, they're throwing other members of the family under the bus to divert attention. They will say that, you know, there'll be some poor courtier who will have to take the rap. And Charles wasn't briefed, didn't know anything. But it's just not conceivable, just from all the recituror have done, the royal family, that the people at the top aren't aware of what's happening, and particularly in this huge scandal like this, there would have been briefings. And, you know, they brought this problem on themselves, if they dealt with it much earlier. and be more ruthless.

There wouldn't be these wider questions being asked about royal accountability and privilege, but there also wouldn't be questions now being asked about the king himself. And I just don't think a sustainable position, continue to be a sustainable position, if we find more and more evidence that he was warned. The mail on Sunday have published their email from 2019, showing the king was briefed. But these emails go back to 2010.

Anyone reading the papers knows this stuff. And it's quite clear that they just hope the problem would go away and they didn't deal with it. So I think they've got a huge dilemma and they do, I mean they haven't really, I don't think, done enough to satisfy public opinion on this, but also to really show that this is important. And I think what makes me slightly cynical about this is that I saw Paul Page's letter where he was being, reminded of his obligations of confidentiality in December because he was beginning to speak out about unsecurity vetted people coming into Buckingham Palace,

some of these girls. And I was talking to one of my UKTI sources the other day, and they were getting letters reminding them of their obligations of secrecy. So on one hand, Charles is saying, we'll fully cooperate with the authorities and everyone should speak freely. And there are these letters going out reminding people not to speak. So I just wonder if what's been done for public consumption isn't actually what's happening in reality.

Yeah, it was very interesting actually because I was in London last week and I dropped around to see Andrew because although having dealt with Andrew for years over the phone, we'd never actually met, so I did go around and see Andrew and I was there in that famous book-line study, which has now been seen on television screens and news channels all over the world. And Andrew and I were talking about how it really is going to be very hard for Charles to claim that he knew nothing about this and that he did not cover it up, specifically because of the payment to Virginia Jufre in 2022. A multi-million dollar settlement paid to Virginia Jufray. And it is just inconceivable that this wasn't run past Charles at a minimum. And as I told Andrew when I was with him on Friday,

I know one of the last people to have last outsiders, like not a member of the staff, to spend a significant amount of time with the queen. And this person was told before they went in to meet her, listen, I want to warn you, she can't really see very much, she can't really hear very much, she drops in and out of the past,

she gets very tired, very easily, and you need to go very, very, very, easy you need to be very calm essentially the queen was i'm afraid she was an elderly woman right but the extent to which she wasn't fully compass i think does make it as you say andrew inconceivable that charles was not involved in that settlement and that settlement effectively was done to buy virginia deufre silence i mean that that's what the purpose of it was yeah and actually fun enough one of my researchers or people I'd be using my sources has been talking about how Peter Loughborough, who was now the secretary, or to Camilla and the King, but was then head of Royal Security,

was busy shutting down all sorts of stories about Andrew. So this was in 2005. So, you know, they've been aware of the problem for a long time. And as I say, talking to friends of mine who were friends with members of the Royal Family, the members of the Royal Family were talking to these friends about the Andrew problem and Epstein and the problems of him as a trade envoy. But the fact is that from 2001 people were writing, complaining about Andrew's

behavior. Again, research in the paperback, I've talked to lots and lots of people in the foreign office and this, they said was the nearest the foreign office came to some sort of revolution because of the problems of Andrew and he was actually counterproductive to what they were doing.

So everyone knew, everything was reported back, and everyone at the palace stopped their head in the sand or sat in the fence. I know. It's extraordinary. It's extraordinary. In your book, of course, did so much for it. And we understand there is a paperback of Entitled coming out soon with some a new section,

some new information. What are you going to be without giving too much away? Can you give us a hint of some of the terrain that you're going to be covering? Is there going to be more, I think people are particularly interested to know, is there going to be anything more about Beatrice and you? in the new section of the book, Andrew, and how involved do you think they were? Yes, there is a lot about them. There was a lot I took out on the instructions of the publishers

because they felt that it was unfair to tile them with the same brush. But there's plenty of evidence on their involvement. We're seeing more and more of that, payments made to them from the Rowlands, activities in Middle East. I mean, there should have been some grounds of suspicion with the Selman-Turt case. Again, money being, in effect, fenced through their bank accounts. So, yes, there's a lot on Beatrice and Eugenie. I'm looking a little bit more at the trade envoy years with some stories there.

There's more about his activities elsewhere, for example, Mongolia, which I hadn't talked about. I think I'm going to be able to put in some of my Ukraine material, Peter Mandelson. I've just been talking this morning to someone who was the sort of right-hand person to Sarah Ferguson for five years with wonderful stories of the madness of her life. and so yes, there's more and more stuff coming in. I've got over 100, I think 117,000 words of material, which I need to cut down to 8,000 words of text. Well, better than the other way.

Indeed, exactly. Do you think that in the end, this, when we were met on Friday, you said to me, do you know what, it's extraordinary, that the royal family haven't just said, okay, we'll be transparent and we'll be accountable for now on. And I've really been thinking about that in my head. And that is the other way out of this for them, isn't it? Is that they say, okay, full register of our interest, full declaration of everything, who's living where, what house? I mean,

another story in the paper today about Charles buying the house next to Camilla's house. I mean, just unbelievable. Like, you know, every day, like more and more opaque. You know, we'll give you a chapter and verse, how the duchy is run, the accounts of the Duchy of Cornwall. I mean, that's the other way out of this, isn't it? Absolutely. And I mean, this is a huge opportunity for them to restore public trust, and they'd seem to have ducked that one. And I've been seeing there are various parliamentary questions that were put it in recently. I mean, George Fuchs, who's a former Labour cabinet minister, is now in the Lords, put in some very good questions about Andrew. And we just

got the same mealy-mouthed response from the Cabinet Office and the Foreign Office and saying absolutely nothing. So, you know, this is all window dressing. You know, we are going to have parliamentary scrutiny or we're going to be a bit more open. And it's not happening. So the pressure is not really just on a bucking palace to come clean. It's also on the government to release files

and to start answering questions, peppermic questions about Andrew's activities. And I don't know how one changes that. Everyone is this complete immersion around the royal family's complete sense of deference. I've had two interviews. In fact, I've done this morning with people researching the payback who are close to the royal family and they just weren't here a word against them. Even if they've been involved in criminal behaviour and I find it extraordinary.

And of course it was interesting to see Andrew did finally get arrested. We're told that he was referred to as defendant A when he was at that police station in Norwich somewhere. But the history of the royal family wouldn't give you enormous confidence. shall we say, Andrew, that this is going to actually end in prosecution in open court, would it? No, it's very interesting. I mean, there seem to be two lines of thought. There are several lawyers saying, absolutely, this is a slam dunk case. We've got all the evidence and there should be no problem. But then there seems to be quite a number of people, I mean, whether this is all, again, fed out there, but to prepare us. But that he's not really a public official, that he's not really in a fair trial, that some,

it's a very high bar and we're not going to get this stuff through. And I have a sense that this is going to be kicked into the long grass and then some fudge will be found not to charge him. But I think the interesting case to watch will be the Mandelson one because if they charge Mandelson, they have to charge Andrew. So how are they going to get out of not charging Mandelson? I don't think he can be seen as a sacrificial lamb. He's just another person doing exactly the same.

So it'll be really interesting to see how it plays out. but I think the problem is it probably won't be played out in our lifetime. Right. Well, there's a historian's long-term view for you. The long view. Andrew, thank you so much for being with this. Andrew has a brilliant substand, the Loney Report. I strongly urge you to subscribe.

And Andrew also is the author of entitled The Paperback. Don't spend your money now. Wait three weeks and you can get the exciting, no, six weeks. is it till the paperback comes out, Andrew? 21st of May, so yes, two months, I'm afraid. Very exciting, very exciting. We can't wait to see what's new and going to be in it. Thank you so much, Andrew, for being with us.

Well, thank you, Tom. Always nice to appear on your show, and good luck with the new show. Now, let's talk about Royal Fashion with Plum Sikes. Welcome to Royal Fashion with Plum Sikes. The Royals were out looking chic for the Cheltenham Rating. last week and we had a spy in the camp none other than my very own dearly beloved sister, the legendary fashion editor, Voget, novelist and writer par excellence, Plum Sykes. Plum.

Thank you, Tom. I'm good, thank you, Tom. I'm recovering from Cheltenham Gold Cup, Chalcham Festival, which is where all these royals were. It was quite funny. So the Cheltenham Gold Cup is the fine. day of five days of racing at Cheltenham, which is a bit like the sort of wintertime Ascot. It's like Ascot with welly boots and tweed. Not quite as formal. A lot of fun. And the royals appear, but they don't do the procession and stuff. They're just kind of,

they're just kind of there wandering around. And they have a royal box, but it's all much more casual. Yeah. Yeah. And who caught your eye? I mean, we saw obviously the amazing photographs of Zai. amazing photographs of Princess Anne and Carol striking up a very unlikely friendship. Yeah. Who caught your eye? Well, do you know what? I actually was really, really interested by Camilla on what she was wearing. So she was there, I think, again, it was on Gold Cup Day.

And she was wearing this kind of incredibly elegant camel-colored coat, clearly made for her with a huge hat. She was the only one of the Royals with a big hat, that all the rest were in like trillbies and fedores and things. Huge hat with tons of kind of, look like giant kind of pheasant feathers. And there's always this kind of theme of pheasant feathers and countryside and tweed and all of that kind of stuff.

But what was so interesting about what they wear is that they always kind of telegraph something, these royals, with every single outfit. So Camilla was wearing an Anna Valentine coat, sort of coat slash coat dress, who of course made the coat slash coat dress that she wore on her wedding day to Prince Charles. So they sort of, Camilla's like all of them,

they stick with these basically unknown British designers who are almost more like a seamstress or a kind of personal dressmaker who then make them the things that they feel really comfortable in. And actually, they don't want to look fashionable. It's not a red carpet for them. They're not doing, you know, they're not influencers trying to sell clothes.

want to wear what they feel comfortable in. And I do quite like that thing of sort of like being the opposite of the Oscars and not showing off. And then Carol Bamford, sorry, not Bamford. Carol Middleton. Carol Middleton. I'm getting confused. So I went to the Bamford's box, which the Bamfors of the other royal family at Cheltenham. Yes. Because they sponsor Cheltenham. And there they are. They're both called Carols. So there we are. Yes.

And tell us about the box culture, because there's a box culture at Cheltenham, isn't that? Okay. I mean, obviously, there's a massive party culture, but at the higher end, there's a box culture. But it's actually kind of... There's the high low. There's the high low.

So the top end is the boxes in what's called the princess. I think it's the Princess Royal Stand, which was named after Princess Anne. And that's where, you know, the Bamphist, have got their box, the vesties have got their box, you know, big Gloucestershire families. And then actually one of the most interesting boxes was the Donnellys, who are this Irish racing family, who also kind of own like half of Mayfair or whatever. And I did a little bit of box hopping,

as it's known, because I had a few invitations to a few different boxes, actually. And in the Donnelly's box was Chris, Chris Scott Thomas, this famous. actress who's now married to this Englishman with her mother-in-law and they had a couple of winners so that was super exciting. The other box that was good fun was Jade Holland Cooper's box. She's kind of fashion royalty at Cheltenham. She sells all the tweed coats with the gold, you know, the gold buttons and everything. And of course in her box there was Katie Nicol. Fresh from her. Fresh from the stand. And she said that she absolutely slaughtered the barrister from the other side. David Sherbourne, which she did actually. She did because David Sherbourne said,

you've never, the truth, Miss Nicol is that you've never heard, never met Prince Harry. He was not a friend of yours, was he, Miss Nicol? And she said, well, he was actually, I was at a party at the roof gardens. He said, would you like to come and have a, I was having a cigarette? And he said, would you like to come into my party? And I said, oh, yes, I would. And he said, you're making this up, aren't you? And he said, no, I'm not, because one tends to remember being invited to party by the most famous prince in the world. So I'm glad she was on good form. She was on really good form and she said they finished with her an hour early because she was so good. So they didn't, you know, they didn't have any more questions. So what else? So Carol Middleton, very much hanging out with Princess Anne.

Bless. That was quite interesting. And I keep seeing all these articles talking about how Carol is very discreet. The royal family absolutely love her. She's kind of made a virtue of being diplomatic. She doesn't tell any stories. She doesn't talk to anyone which doesn't give an interview. And she's kind of looking completely at home in the royal family and wearing the same

unfashionable clothes as them. So she's really fitting in with them. So she was wearing a coat from this English company called really wild clothing. Okay. Which sounds like it's going to be something from Hollywood Boulevard, but it's all tweed

coats for wearing outside when you go shooting. and interestingly guess who owns the company? I'm going to leave it to you to tell us. Nadia Sorovsky. Oh, okay. Of the jewels, of the jewel family. Right, they bought this kind of English hunting, shooting fishing company and they're all dressing all of these really kind of sloany posh girls

are wearing this brand of tailored tweed coats and things. but the other person who I always love to see what she's wearing because she's always clearly just pulled it out of the back of the closet Princess Anne Forest green kind of boot clay coat that looked like it last been worn in sort of 1962 and then what's quite funny is her hat of choice is always a version of a pillbox hat

you know the kind of hats that Jackie O wore but on this occasion they always have like little pheasant feathers and things, you know, dotted alongside. And then who else we've got? We've got Zara. So Zara was wearing Catherine Hooker, wrap coat. Catherine Hooker, again, a favourite of Princess Wales. Right.

Been dressing her for years. And again, you know, a little studio on the Fulham Road, you know, very discreet, very slowny, isn't going to tell anyone who she's dressing and all the rest of it. and Zara also wore a dark green velvet suit from me and M and M is this British brand probably the only one that's kind of fashiony which is actually taking off hugely in America and Rebecca Brooks who was in the Banford box

was wearing the same suit as Zara there we go but the most excitement was the fighting in the Guinness Village tell us about the fighting was Mike Tindall involved do you know what And luckily he wasn't because I think that they would have had more than a few bloody noses if he was. So we were just talking about the high, low of Charltonham, right? So there's the boxes, which is like the super, super high end.

And then there's something called the Guinness Village, which you could call it low, but I think that's a bit rude. That's where everyone goes to drink Guinness. And it's like tons, it's miles of bars selling just Guinness, basically. And all the Irish boys that go there to drink. And the other thing is, is that all the really, really, really posh, Dukes, Viscounts, Ears, they get really bored of being in the boxes. And guess where they all go? Guinness Village.

That's their favourite place. They start drinking at 11 o'clock in the morning on Gold Cup Day, and they drink all the way through. And then what happens, they all start fighting with each other. And there's a very funny video where they all start fighting. They're all wearing the same clothes, little tweed coats. They're all getting their clothes ripped. They finished the fight. This poor guy's got a bloody nose and everything.

and then they all hug each other and congratulate each other for having a marvellous fight and then they go start another fight in the corner. And then have a pint of Guinness. Yeah, and then there was also a girls' fight in the Lou, in the ladies' Lou. I mean, I would say

that Cheltenham is the only place, I think, where you will genuinely find a Duke and a Duffman at the bar together. In the Guinness Village. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. pub. Do you know what I mean? It is super democratic. It's not like

Ascot where there's a royal enclosure and you have to have a special badge to get into royal enclosure and everyone in the royal enclosure has to wear a tail coat and a top hat and then everyone else is outside and there's that slightly unappealing feeling of like oh there's a velvet rope, there's them and there's us

Cheltenham is everyone in it together and it's very country. There's loads of farmers there's jockeys, there's hunting people and then also what made me laugh is there's a lot of girls who get very drunk as well, obviously. And they all wear, it's freezing cold, you can imagine, and they all wear tweed capes and these hats with the pheasant feathers. And then they wear little tiny tweed miniskirt with bare legs. And then they have a bag on their

arm that's like a clear plastic Kelly bag. And in it, they have a bottle of champagne with a straw sticking out. That's Charlton Rieff. Fantastic. Yeah. And I would say to anybody, if you're, if you're interested in, you know, having a trip to, if you're making a trip to England around this time of year, just buy yourself a ticket for Cheltenham, because it is, it is fantastic. I mean, it's, it's so much fun and you don't, and it's, it's a lot more fun than Ascot and also the racing's a lot more fun because it's, because it's jump races, whereas Aska is just on the flat, so it's quite boring actually. And the race has actually gone for quite long time. And, you know, you know, sometimes people fall off, which is quite exciting, because of the jumps. It's all good fun.

Plum, thank you so much for your amazing insights as ever. Plum Sikes is the author of the fantastic substack PS by Plum Sikes, where you can read more of Plum's insights. And that's the best place to catch. And if you click on that QR code, if you're watching on the screen, you'll find it. And if you're listening to this in your car, just tell your digital assistant to find PS by Plum Sikes on Substack.

We can't say the name of the digital assistant or else it'll send everyone's phones into fits of paroxysms of delight. So thank you very much, Plum, for being with us. Thanks, Tom. That's really fun. Okay, and now it's time for some piping hot tea. It's time for tea with Tom. Ladies and Channel, I've got some very exciting news. We are joined by the one and only.

Paula Frolic, yes. That seems to have blown my sound, actually. can't hear a thing anymore. Oh no, you're back. There you are. Sorry. I've really, I've been told not to do that because it can blow people's sound. So I'm sorry. Paula Frolic is a very old friend of mine. I first met Paula in the year 2002 when I was working at the New York Post and we were both working on page six with another great friend of ours, Chris Wilson. The editor was Richard Johnson at the time. There were wild times. They were wild and fast times. Thank goodness there was no social media. Since then, Paula has gone on to have an incredible career as a showbiz media news and

royal reporter. And you can catch her on News Nation, where she has her fantastic show. And you can also catch her on Substack, where she is this inside scoop with Paula Froelick and on her YouTube channel, where sometimes she has me as her guest. Paula, what's up? Oh, guys, Tom, you're going to love this. So you and I have talked about this girl's getaway as nausea, add nauseam because I literally can't get enough. And we've talked about how basically they claimed it was sold out. You know, everything with Megan is spin. You and I know this. And, you know, they send out the Girl's Weekend and it's 3,100 Australian dollars for the VIP package, $2699 for a regular ticket. And so, and then they say, oh, sorry, it's all sold out.

So the Sussex Squad goes bonkers, right? And they get sold out. Stop making fun. Everyone wants to see Megan. Okay. So a source of mine in Australia said, all right. And then they go, it's sold out. Put your name on the wait list.

So my friend puts her name on the wait list. And she adds in a sob story just to, you know, sweeten the deal. And within hours, she gets an email going, congratulations. Yeah, we'd love to have you. Oh, really? They've managed to find a space after all. Yeah, within hours, really. I don't believe it.

Within hours. And they say, you know, basically. my source says they're doing internet searches on people before they can go and be approved because we all know Megan don't like nobody in the audience who corrects her or who doesn't love her. She needs to be surrounded by sycophants at all times. Now, in the letter they said, we had to be very thoughtful about who we could offer places to. Because, you know, otherwise it would be journalists and we'd all be like, tell us more. What gobbledy gook do you have to say for us today?

In Montecito speak, please. We've got our translators. Yeah, it's redonculus. And so then, the funny thing was exactly what they got offered for a VIP package. They got offered twin share rooms. Okay. So, and then it said, if you've got a friend going, let us know so we can fare you up with it. Otherwise, you're going to go spend $3,100 Australian dollars to stay at the new intercontinental on Koogee Beach, also known as Poogee Beach, because there's so many sewage spills.

And get to sleep in a twin bed with a stranger. They could say that Poogee Beach is the most Aussie thing I've heard in a long while. It's the best. literally my Australian socialites were laughing so hard they're like, Poogee! Oh my God! They were shocked and appalled. They're like, it's perfectly fine if you're like a surfer,

and you know, you don't mind to eat coli. But... Anyway, you also get... This is amazing. She was told, my friend, you've seven days to pay. So you better pay the money. Right now. So seven days to pay, you get breakfast, you get two dinners, and you get inspiring conversations, some yoga, and sound healing as well as you can partake in a disco.

A disco? How old are we? A disco. Would there be snogging? I mean, I'll partake in a disco, maybe, but it's got to be under special circumstances, possibly after a trip to the Guinness Bar at Cheltenham, but not any other way. What other tea do we have? What other tea do we have on this couple? Because I mean...

I got it. I got it. I got a question for you. Okay. What do you get? When you get two girls, zero funds, and one very expensive weekend, you get the grifter's getaway. Because get this...

Gemma O, who's hosting this weekend with Megan Markle. Now, she holds a podcast for Best Life with Jackie O. Henderson. We don't know why she puts the O in there. I think she wants everyone to think she fancy. It's very housewives of Sydney. However, this is insanity. I found out, and it broke in Sydney while I was asleep, and all the people emailed me.

They're like, uh, Gemma? is broke. So apparently, November 2025, her talent agency collapsed. And then in February, February 24, 2006,

the taxman came after and she owes over 550,000 Australian dollars to the British Revenue Service, actually. Oh, interesting. Good for her. Two weeks later, she announced the girls' retreat with.

Megan, also known in some circles, aka Spotify, as a grifter. So I just think it's insane. So Gemma in her statement said she had no savings, limited income, and couldn't refinance her Sydney apartment. So I say best life indeed. I'm really looking forward to what kind of conversations those women are going to be happy. and how to live your best life. On no money.

Marry a rich international prince and two, go hold a girls weekend so everyone else can pay your bills. It's incredible. It's incredible stuff, incredible stuff. And I'm sure more and more will come out about this because the problem is that it just appears to be so incredibly badly organized. It's actually really hard to put together something like this.

And we've sort of seen insights into this from Gemma in her initial statement saying that Marcus, you know, called her up from Megan's house to ask if she wanted to do it. I mean, it's all just incredibly random and badly organized. Anyway, I was quite intrigued. As you know, something that I'm fascinated by is this tension, shall we call it, between Megan's endless use of social media to come up. commercialize and promote her whole family, new pictures of her kids online today. And the tension that that generates with Harry, who very much doesn't want the kids online. And then yesterday they made this extraordinary, very grandiose statement about the LA tech trial, saying, you know, how awful basically Mark Zuckerberg was, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

I mean, the whole sort of Sussex social media operation, do you find it jarring when they put this stuff online in one breath and then in the next breath say social media is terrible? Yeah, it's kind of insane. I don't think they don't understand the dichotomy or hypocrisy of what they say versus what they do. I do want to bring back something real quickly though, Tom, because you mentioned Marcus Anderson,

who's like the global head of membership for Soho House. And he has actually set up several events for Megan. And they all just go badly. At this point, I'm just going to say, Megan, he might be your friend. Or is he? Because he keeps having you step in it, girl. Not to mention, maybe you should let someone else do your social calendar. And as for Instagram versus Megan and Harry,

I actually think it's causing a lot of tension in their own relationship. So if you look at the Tom Bauer excerpt in the Times of London, and he talks about how when they were both in New York last year, there were knocked down, dragout fights. And then when we look at the quasi-royal tour weirdness to Jordan, you know, you saw Harry brush her off several times, which is the first time that's happened in 10 years. ever. And then you had the line, which was kind of a weird throwaway ending line to the Wall Street Journal article that said, well, when William becomes king, if Harry decides to get remarried, he'll have to ask William for permission. And you're like, whoa, that's a record scratch. What's our, is there, is there tension in paradise? What do you think, Tommy? I thought that remark at the end the Wall Street Journal was, it was so strange, but as a journalist, how I would interpret that

is almost when you've like gone out to try and get a specific story, you've kind of almost got enough, you've written it up and you've included this big bombshell. And then at the last minute, the lawyers have gone, I'm sorry, we just can't include that. And then someone thinks of a clever way to sort of hint at it or write their way around it. Do you know what I mean? It just slightly had that buzz in it and the whole piece was so grand and big and it was like this big headline that obviously people thought of and it went on and on it did that real i'm sorry i don't mean to denigrate my american colleagues but it did that real american journalism thing of go we've spoken to 15 sources and you're like good for you man i don't actually care how many people you've

spoken to like what have you found out like good for you doing your homework guys but like you know what have you actually found out and and there was so little in it other than this sort of one line him being adrift and one about him being lonely. And then this crazy line at the end, say, if Harry wanted to remarry in the future, he'd have to ask the king's permission. And it's like, I know. I was like, okay, for everyone else out there who's not in the media, this is a flare. This is sending up an SOS on their marriage.

Yeah. It was very, very bizarre. Paula, it's been wonderful to have you. If you want to catch me in Paula at greater length, and by which I really do mean greater length, because we keep going for hours, and our poor producer, Ben, has to, like, go back to school or whatever he's doing.

And we're like, no, you can't leave. Join us on either of our YouTube channel on Paula's fantastic YouTube channel, the scoop with Paula Frolic, her substack, and you can see the QR code there on your screen. if you're in your car, tell your personal digital assistant to look up the scoop, the inside scoop by Paula Frolic. And you will never be sure of entertainment. That's all I can tell you. Paula, thanks so much for coming.

Thank you. And by the way, I have to say, if you want to also catch me, News Nation. I am the senior story editor and on-air entertainment correspondent for the most amazing cable news channel in the world. in the whole damn world. Thanks very much, Paul Ed. So now it's time for my personal favorite segment, the Royal Roast. And this week, I'm joined by Shawna Kay. I am looking forward to roasting the hell out of who else, Megan and Harry. And I am delighted to have Shawna Kaye joining me. Shauna, as anybody who's watched my YouTube channel and her YouTube channel will know, is the host of the Vintage Reed Show. It's one of the top Australian royal podcasts. Shauna is actually a polymath.

She's really, really smart, a really great writer. She has a fantastic substack, which she's going to tell us all about as well. And Shauna, I'm just delighted to have you. Shawna is one of my great inspirations on YouTube, and I'm thrilled to have her. Shawna, what do you think so far? I'm so impressed, Tom, and I'm rather excited to get this invite. I've got to tell you. We're like, how wait to dish the dirt about Harry and Megan coming to Australia.

So let's catch people up. a bit. So this is a paper photo, paper visit, pay per view visit to Australia that's going to be taking place next month for just a few thousand Australian dollars. You can get your photograph taken with Megan. But it now turns out that one of her business partners has got some trouble. Tell us the whole story, Shauna. Yes, well, Gemma O'Neill, who is actually the manager of Jackie O'Henderson, they both started up the besties, comfort. basically where they would host these VIP weekends away, mainly aimed for influencers, obviously. And so Gemma O'Neill was thrilled that Megan decided to come along and be a very special

VIP guest for that table photo. And unfortunately, Gemma O'Neill, her company, her talent agency, has just gone under administration in November last year, but is now actually in liquidation. and she owes a cool half a meal to the Australian tax office. Hang on a sec. So Megan is partnering and appearing on stage with somebody whose company is in liquidation and owes the Aussie tax office half a million dollars. I'm sorry, did this not come up before?

Well, we need to clarify because the Besties weekend is a different arm of her business. So completely separate to the talent agency that she was. ran. So we have to be clear about that. So it's sort of siloed and separate and evidently the besties company that she's in partnership with Jackie O' Henderson is presumably healthy. It's got a healthy bottom line. Or maybe it does now that Megan's coming. Yeah, I just don't know if I was going on my fake royal tour that I'd partner with somebody who had a 500,000 debt to the tax office. But tell me more. What's the kind of general reaction to this in Australia.

I mean, are people as horrified? I mean, do they find it tacky like we do? Or do they, is this sort of culturally okay that people like, good on you, good on you, mate. Stick another shrimp on the Barbie and, you know, make yourself a few quit if you can. No, I think it could be best. The whole sentiment, I think, could be summed up in a two-word phrase that we use a lot here in Australia.

And the phrase is, yeah, nah. And I think it could be sucked up with those two words. I would say I've been a bit of an on-the-ground intrepid reporter for you, Tom, and I've checked the mood. And I would say that on the scale, it would be polite disinterest on one end and raging resentment on the other. And there's not a lot much in between. Very much seen as commercial, very much seen as a B-grade sort of influencer event

of not much note, bit tacky, you know, only the destriots would turn up, that sort of thing. And I think it's also the media. The media have been really pushing the fact that their popularity is at the lowest point it's ever been. Yet there's no numerical poll to prove that. It's more just commentary, but I mean, I can believe it. I think people would believe it. And they're really emphasizing the gap between the Love Fest,

in 2018 and what they think will before them when they arrive this time. Well, yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, because actually I was talking to Paula Frolic earlier in the week, who was on earlier, and she was telling me about how, you know, they're pretending that the event has sold out, but actually if you sign up and send a request, you immediately get something back saying, oh, please come along, you know, please do come along. And it does seem to me these kinds of things, they are quite risky, aren't because actually you're coming face to face with what are you really worth? You know, what are people really prepared to pay?

I mean, you wouldn't have thought they'd have too much trouble selling 300 tickets. I mean, it doesn't seem like a huge amount. But compared to the screaming crowds that greeted them when they came, she announced, of course, on that first official royal trip that she was pregnant with Archie, it was an unbelievably successful trip. And I suppose the thing is, though, that the actual Royal Trip, because it's backed up with so much logistical support, everything runs very smoothly, whereas this is looking, I don't know, is there an Australian phrase a kick, bollick and a scramble? Is that Australian or not? No, but I take your point. I think really the scepticism stems from what came out after the last tour. So we had the love fest and that was real and they were really the gold couple. They had their moment in the sun. But very soon after that, even before they got back to the UK, there was all these rumblings coming out, of course, of staff in tears.

Of course, Rebecca English reported on that. We had really respected journalists on that tour like Valentine Lowe in the back of the plane. And of course, we know he came out with his book, courtiers. And really, we got the stark reality. But there was rumblings locally, you know, people that worked at government house talking to their cousin and then they're cousin talking and things were sort of leaking out very quickly. So we had, you know, staff in tears and this awful atmosphere and everyone sort of really witnessed the hiss in the Fiji and marketplace. So there's a lot of skepticism there because, you know, Aussies don't like fake.

We don't like a false niceness. We want to know that you're genuinely a good person and that you treat your staff well. And I think that's where it all came undone. I mean, yeah, I've only been to Australia twice and both times kind of East Coast, you know, driving up and down the coast and just amazing memories. But my impression of Australian sort of how Australian national culture and how they see themselves is they actually pride themselves on sort of being able to sniff out bullshit and kind of being immune to that kind of stuff.

I mean, obviously, it's a bit of a bit of a caricatured. But I mean, it seems like, you know, a funny kind of place for them. And then if this is really the launch pad for Megan to launch the products, the as ever products in Australia, I mean, that seems like a whole completely mad concept. Because, I mean, Australia, as I remember, you can't even bring a slice of cheese into the country without being in a putting an immigration block and questioned about it. I mean, how do you think it'll work if they, do start trying to sell their, you know, products, which frankly have been not got great reviews from food reviewers and food bloggers around the world. And Australians love very proud of their produce, right? I mean, they love their produce. Yeah, exactly. Exactly what I was about to say,

that we're a great nation of foodies. So the product has to be really good and really impressive to impress us. But in this case, I don't think the flower sprinkles are going to replace the Royal Star-us, Tom, you know, it's just not going to happen. Also, you would think that even mailing costs, I mean, a lot of products don't launch in our country because it's prohibitive to actually get the product to Australia. I mean, that's a real problem. So I don't know how well this was really thought out, and I don't really know how genuine it actually is. I suspect that it was genuinely a favour to Marcus Anderson, who was a friend with Gemma O'Neill, and I think it's a favour for a friend that has very much backfired.

There's even a petition toll on change.org, which has currently got over 8,600 signatures from Australians that are serious. They don't want any taxpayer funding for this trip, and they are really, they don't want any government-supplied security for Harry and Megan when they're in, because the insistence is it is a private commercial business visit. And so they don't want any of that recognition as if they're members of the Royal Family. Wow. Fascinating. Well, Sean, final question. Will you be attending? No, I won't, Tom, because I have a feeling that I might be thrown out.

Because I've had my podcast for many years now. And the Sussex Squad, have identified me as someone that can be slightly critical at times. So I would have to go in disguise. Well, that would be quite a sight. Unless Paula came over. I could go with Paula. We could share a room. Besties.

Besties. Yeah, of course. Shawna, do me a favour so that I don't get it wrong and tell everybody about where they can find you on substack and YouTube and all those things. Okay. Well, I've got a substack called Red Hot Royal Roil. reveals and so you can find me there. You can't miss it. It's sort of got an orange background, which is a bit obnoxious, but it makes me stand out. So yeah, check me out there.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for being with this, Shawna. Okay. Thank you. Well, thank you very, very much for joining me for the first episode of the new Royalist podcast. Thank you for spending some of your valuable time with me, whatever time it is where you are. What was your favorite bit of the show? Which bits did you enjoy? Let us know. Give us some feedback. Tell us in the comments what you enjoyed, what you want to hear more of what you loved, what you liked. Thank you so much for my incredible guests. Andrew Loney, who has the Loney report on substack, Plum Sikes, who has PS by Plum Sikes on Substack. Paula Frolic, the proprietor of the inside scoop with Paula Frolic on Substack and Shawna Kay, the propriety of red hot royal reveals on Substack.

So we were thrilled to have so many brilliant, high-calibur quality guests. And that I hasten to add is a very good taster of what you're going to be getting every week on the Royalist podcast. I'm going to bring you the best guests, the insideriest info, the real gossip, the real scoop, the real news on what's going on. So thank you so much to all our amazing producers to Rachel Pasa and Devin Rogerino for their amazing and patient work, putting this all together. It's been a labour of love. And we're thrilled to finally have it here ready to go. If you're feeling, obviously, the main thanks goes to you for, as I said, taking a bit of time, your valuable time and spending it with us. if you're really feeling kind, it would be amazing if you could like and subscribe.

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