The Daily Beast Podcast - Why MAGA's Falling Apart in Front of Trump: Wolff

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

Michael Wolff returns with Joanna Coles for a blistering look at the latest fractures inside Trump’s MAGA coalition. From Trump’s resurfacing of Epstein anxieties and his strange new pardon predicament with Ghislaine Maxwell, to his growing unease over Israel and the rise of Christian nationalism, Wolff sketches a portrait of a president losing control of the populist movement he created. The Daily Beast’s Chief Content Officer Joanna Coles presses Wolff on Tucker Carlson’s ambitions, online swirling Charlie Kirk conspiracies, and J.D. Vance’s quiet maneuvering for power. Together, they dissect how Trump’s cult of loyalty is turning on itself and why his old tactics may finally be failing. Is Trump still the master of the MAGA hivemind, or has he become just another voice in the chaos he unleashed? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Justice Department still very clearly believes they've solved this crime. He shot Charlie Kirk because his lover is a trans or in the process of that's the Justice Department narrative. Now, significant MAGA voices are coming forward in saying that's absolutely untrue. Not only is that absolutely untrue, but this is a cover-up. It's a whitewash. It's a cover-up. The Trump administration is telling a bald lie. Michael Wolf.

We're here. We're here. You're here. I'm here. I'm very pleased to be back in the office, in our studio, after two weeks, sitting at home, nursing, hip surgery. And now I'm back. and ready to get back on the tennis court with you, the verbal tennis court. Shoot.

Well, shoot. Serve, serve. I'm going to lob. I'm going to lob. But first, we have to discuss where we're going. Because there may be new people who haven't seen this podcast. There may be people who've watched it occasionally. We are going inside Trump's head.

But I want to say we are going there because other. people don't. The whole narrative about Donald Trump is an exterior narrative, people watching what this guy does and trying to make sense of it. And our thesis is you can't. You've got to come from the other side. This is all the product of one of the most peculiar minds ever to. assume political leadership.

And I have often found, and certainly as I was growing up, very difficult to follow politics because it was always covered in this dry sort of policy format way, which made it very uninteresting. Well, politicians are dry. Politics should be dry. Politicians, at their best, are dry. They are policy people, technocrats. Right, who get things done, right? And who don't want to make it. That is, the world is in balance when politics is boring and dry.

The world now is out of balance because politics is so, it is, to say the least, too interesting. Well, and Donald Trump is a creature of television. as we have both talked about frequently, he knows how to perform. We are living at a time of unprecedented social media and access to audiences. And every day he puts on a different performance. Well, but even beyond that, like an actor or like many actors, he's a sociopath. Right. I'm thinking of my actor friends. So it is all about his attention.

what can the attention he can get, the attention that he needs. So, I mean, that's a totally a political motivation, the likes of which we really never have seen when it's just all about attention, all about his needs. So that's why we are inside Trump's head. Right, trying to figure out what his next move will be. And the thing that I find so extraordinary about him is just his ability to hold that attention. Even the most sociopathic actors need a bit of downtime. But one senses with Donald Trump, he doesn't want downtime. Down time would be horrible for Donald Trump.

Down time is where he spirals. What he wants is just the attention on him all the time. Because there is no there in there. Right. Well, we're beginning to discover that as we poke around, right, with our magnifying glasses. I think this time we're going in with white coats and magnifying glasses and possibly we're going to scrape some cells and look at them under the microscope. That's my metaphor instead of the caving metaphor. That was a very long intro today.

It doesn't have to be the intro. On to the news. On to the news. Okay. Well, the news I am obsessed by is the Supreme Court has turned down Gillen Maxwell's plea for clemency and her determination. to try and get her 20-year sentence for sex trafficking overturned. And as we saw yesterday, this puts our friend, Donald Trump, in a very tricky position. Yeah, and just let me say this is no surprise that she was turned down.

Of course not. I mean, it was ludicrous that it would even get to the Supreme Court, even this Supreme Court. Right. Well, it did not get to the Supreme Court. They refused to put it on their docket. Right. And so, but the interesting moment was when the. then he was confronted on this issue by Caitlin Collins.

Of CNN. Of CNN. And she asked if he was going to pardon, Galane Maxwell. And at that moment, he put on his Epstein face. His Epstein face. I love it. And the Epstein face is like, um, Epstein, yes. That kind of rings a bell.

Epstein. Yes. Did we work together years ago on a construction project maybe, Epstein? Palm Beach. And that's how he responded about Galane. Galane, Galane, yes. Yeah. You haven't heard that name in a long time.

Haven't heard that name in a long time just three weeks ago. Right. He sent his number two, his personal lawyer, the number two in the Justice Department, down to where she is in prison. Yeah, he sent Todd Blanche to Tallahassee, which has nice alliteration. And then a week later, Gillen Maxwell is suddenly transferred to a low security jail in Texas where she has a sister living nearby. Club fed, yes. Club fed.

No, I'm, yeah, but Trump is, uh, you know. Well, and then also he says he has to look at it. He has to look into it. I'm going to look into it. Well, will you pardon her? Well, you know, yeah. We'll discuss it with my Justice Department. I am told.

I have to discuss it. You know. Right. Maybe. So if you were going on his Epstein face, which I'm now going to start looking out for, what would you say the odds are that Gillen does get a pardon from the president? Overwhelming. overwhelming, right, because she's now thinking about all the things she's got on him, right?

Well, I think a deal has been cut. Oh, you think the deal's already been cut? Totally. Right. Yes. So when, you know, how soon by Thursday, possibly? I mean, I'd say more conservatively, you know, we're out six months or so. Wow.

Wow. that's just astonishing. I mean, does it depend on the release of the Epstein files? And what's happened to the Epstein files? Because we know they've now got the votes. There were the special elections which were won by Democrats in Arizona. And I think, I can't remember where the other one was. Was it Virginia?

And now there are 218 votes for the release of the Epstein file because four Republicans across the House, Thomas Massey and the three women, Lauren Bow, but Marjorie Taylor Green and who's the other one, Nancy Mace. You know, I think that sooner or later there will be a vote to release the Epstein files per se. What that ultimately results in, we don't know because they don't know. They're saying release something and we don't know what it is that we're asking you to release. But we do know because Elon tweeted it out and then deleted his tweet that Donald Trump is in it many times.

But we don't know that. So what we will ultimately see is pieces of this that come out redacted every which way. So this is we've built this up as a solution to this and it is not a solution. But never. And it will continue. to be this royal issue. Okay. So also part of this royal issue is the suggestion that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad agent.

And this is all caught up inside this new or these new conspiracies coming out of the Charlie Kirk murder, which appeared at first to be very straightforward. It was a guy called Tyler Robinson. he was caught on video jumping down off the roof where it looked like he had the easiest access to assassinate Charlie Kirk. And now it feels like all those things are up for the glass. Well, let's delineate the sides here. So that's not the consensus.

The Justice Department still very clearly believes they've solved this crime. they have their culprit. Tyler Robinson. You know, it happened. I mean, he, he shot Charlie Kirk because his lover is a trans or in the process of, that's the, that's the Justice Department narrative. Now, significant MAGA voices are coming forward. in saying that's absolutely untrue.

Not only is that absolutely untrue, but this is a cover-up. It's a whitewash. It's a cover-up. The Trump administration is telling a bald lie. Okay. Tyler Robinson, and this, I am channeling what they're saying. I believe all this is not so. But their view is that Tyler Robinson is a fall.

guy. They set him up. They. Right. That Erica Kirk, Erica Kirk, the wife, is, the widow, is, let me see if I can extrapolate this properly, a sleeper agent somehow connected to her participation in a Donald Trump beauty pageant. So Trump and Erica Kirk go. way back in establishing this sleeper relationship. She's activated to monitor Charlie Kirk and then appears to be complicit in the MAGA view or the view of some of these MAGA voices in her husband's murder. But the real culprit in the murder is Israel. and they have murdered Charlie Kirk because he was expressing doubts about Israel's actions in Gaza

and then apparently about to break with Israel and the general Republican Party in a much more dramatic way. So Charlie Kirk was therefore at that point taken out. Now, the implications here. I mean, I think the largest implicate. I mean, this is, again, let me repeat, this is real not-so stuff. But never discount not-so on the right. Well, and also, I went down a spiral of this stuff, and there is so much of it out there online. I mean, it's all over the place.

No, and it's picked apart. conspiracy stuff. I mean, it's like all of these conspiracy. Nothing is what it should be. Every detail is compromised by another detail. You know, I mean, real rabbit hole stuff. And also, ironically, what's interesting is that at the head of the FBI, you've got Keystone Cash Patel, as we call him in The Daily Beast, and you've got Dan Bongino as his number two, who were enormous conspiracy theorists before they got into that job and have had to wind it back in. Trump himself, of course, is a significant conspiracies. Right, the birth certificate for Barack Obama being one of the first conspiracy theories.

So, but this is, so the implications, the most, the most dramatic implications are these people, these MAGA people, all of them here tofore, pillars of the Trump movement. Of the base. Are now saying, you're lying, you're involved in a cover-up, you're guilty. And then this doesn't go, you killed Charlie Kirk, essentially. So we have a set of these kinds of breaches in the MAGA wall. Which is why this is interesting and why we're taking it seriously, because there are lots of conspiracy theories out there that we don't pay attention to.

But this is interesting because it suggests a riff in the MAGA base. Yes. And they come together, the nature of these, of the riffs that are occurring here and converging in Charlie Kirk. We have the instance of his death. You made that up, cover up. Why? Because you, the Trump, Trump White House, are complicit in Israel's savage attack on Gaza, continuing attack. And we, these MAGA voices, no longer accept that. So, and this is a big breach. You know, I mean, support for Israel has been a pillar again. of the Republican leadership and of the evangelical movement.

And so and with Trump at the center of it. I mean, Trump has been, Trump does not say no to B.B. Netanyahu, it would appear. And actually, these mega voices insist on that. One of the other points is, is, and they keep repeating this, is that, is that B.B. Netanyahu is said to have said something like, I run

Trump or I run America. I think a lot of people are saying that. And there's an enormous umbrage. Tucker Carlson is very much how could anyone say this about my country? I can't

I can't tolerate that. This is a humiliation. So let's talk a little bit about where is Tucker Carlson on this? Because this has gone from being one of those fringe conversations to suddenly the big MAGA voices, Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Candice Owens, are now discussing this. Nick Fuentes, very important. Nick Fuentes, who's gone on a tirade about Erica Kirk saying that, you know, nothing was normal about the way she behaved at that memorial. He was

saying that there was something strange and odd about the whole thing and he wasn't buying it. But Tucker is one of the foremost voices in this community. You've known him for years. You've known Tucker for years. I mean, I remember him when he was on MSNBC as a contributor. When I first moved to America, where is he on all this now? Well, he's a central part of it. And I have known him. And I've liked Tucker and we've had a long, a long relationship, you know, over 25 years, basically. And I've spent time talking to Tucker about many of these issues, not directly about Charlie Kirk, but about, certainly about his relationship to Trump and his relationship to evangelicals. And I'm pretty well versed in Tuckerism.

Is Tucker a Christian nationalist, which is this movement that's emerging out of Charlie Kirk's death? I think he is aligning himself with Christian nationalism, and we should define that because it's actually in the process of being defined. This is a notion that really never existed or existed only on the fringe and now has come, is moving in. into the center, into a MAGA, again, another pillar of the MAGA movement. But I think you should see, let's look at Tucker, and he's representative in this way, as someone thinking about what comes after Donald Trump. Oh, okay. And Tucker may, you know, Tucker has political ambitions.

I mean, I've spoken to him at length about this, whether he will ultimately run for something. Do you mean president? Yes. I mean, well, political ambitions, yes. But including what is that that would be more interesting than what he's doing? Including running for president, yes. Only meaning that it's hard to imagine that being a senator or being a governor would be as interesting or certainly as lucrative as what he's doing now.

Never say never. As one, you know, Tucker is still a relatively young man, were he to suddenly think I am, I have a political future, how you would triangulate that. I mean, nobody wants to be a congressman. They all want to be president. What does the senator say to himself when he looks in the mirror? Good morning, Mr. President.

Or good morning, Mrs. President, I should throw in there too. So anyway, so Tucker is looking at this, at this, at the field of play. And one of the things that if you're Tucker Carlson or anyone else with designs, you have to look at J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance. who has very quickly moved into that space.

J.D. Vance is obviously, in terms of the Republican nomination in 2028, the front runner, he has all of the advantage is given to a vice president and perhaps, and perhaps given his youth and his financial backers, perhaps more. So then the question is going to be, how do you, and he also will likely have the support of Donald Trump. Will he though?

I mean, I was going to say that's a mixed back. Yes. And Donald Trump is, the poison chalice of Donald Trump's support. Donald Trump is, as we know a bitch. So we don't know what he will do. But let's just assume at this point. And I would like to point out that on previous podcast, you have specifically said the last thing Donald Trump wants is to be followed by a Republican. Yeah, no, no.

He will undermine whoever it is. Exactly. Exactly. But therefore, but if you're looking, if you're looking toward that nomination, you've got to say, well, how do we, how do we, how do we, what's the edge on J.D. Vance. And if you triangulate Vance to be on the wrong side of Charlie Kirk, so let's reconfigure this here, that the mantle that you want is not the Donald Trump, Donald Trump's mantle, it's Charlie Kirk's mantle.

Michael, shut up. We're just going to take a break for our ads. Fantastic. Can't wait. We're back discussing the breakdown in the MAGA movement. Let us not forget that J.D. Vance flew Charlie Kirk's coffin back from the University of Utah, the hospital in Utah, where Charlie was treated, to Arizona where he lived. Ushavans emerged. And that will shortly, if it has not already become part of the cover of the conspiracy.

There was no coffin. It wasn't true. It wasn't Charlie in there. Exactly. But they had Ushavans descending the stairs of Air Force 2 with Erica Kirk. They were holding hands. Erica Kirk. I think Ushavans was the only person that got a shoutout, apart from Donald Trump and Charlie,

in the 30-minute speech that Erica Kirk gave. Because they are co-conspirators, of course. Of course. Of course. Can I raise one thing here, which I find interesting about Charlie Kirk, is that the way he was referred to at the memorial. was almost as if he were an orphan. Where are Charlie Kirk's parents?

I mean, who are Charlie Kirk's parents? Now you're a part of the conspiracy. But I'm fascinated that Erica didn't give them a shout out during her speech, which I thought was impressive. I thought it would stand up 11 days after your husband's been murdered. Very impressive, nonetheless. To me, it was very odd that you didn't mention his parents who have lost a son. You don't mention his sister.

Well, she was the sleeper agent put in to separate Charlie Kirk from his parents and from his family. So therefore, obviously, we are not, we've disappeared them. I have never read Lord of the Rings, but I feel like all these conspiracy theory people have read Lord of the Rings. And that's the fundamental thing that it's the sort of fertile territory for these wild conspiracy theories. But just look at this on a, I mean, again, and I will say not so. But look at this as on the political playing field. And the political playing field is looking for the MAGA movement post-Trump.

Someone to lead the MAGA movement who is not J.D. Vance, to separate it from Trump, basically. And so among the things that you have now, you have Epstein, the MAGERS, people are obviously rabid on the Epstein issue. Now you have the Charlie Kirk issue, the cover up of St. Charlie's murder. And also you now have, which you have never had before, this breach on Israel. And these are major things. And they are a breach, a serious breach against with Donald Trump. So if you're inside Donald Trump's head where you have spent a lot of time, and I'm frantically trying to catch up, what is he thinking about this and how does he outmaneuver these conspiracies? You know, I mean, I think that he is, I'm not sure he has his head around this yet. I mean, I really think that this is pretty new at this point.

and I think it's kind of bewildering. So what happens? I mean, there was a, you know, recently a call from Tablet Magazine. Tablet Magazine is a conservative Jewish magazine, very quite right wing, very much on the Trump side. and of course very, very much on the Israeli side. So, and they're calling for let's, you know, let's cut off Tucker Carlson. Let's eliminate him from the. And what does it mean let's cut off?

From the true believers. But how can they cut him off? What does it mean? Well, they can't. But nevertheless, but it, I mean, what they're saying is if you are a, they're just setting up a showdown. If you're a real Trumper, a true trumper, a true believer, yes. And so again, we're just seeing these two sides of an emerging conflict.

And Megan Kelly did an interesting podcast where she was talking about Charlie Kirk and some of his more conservative Jewish funders who had been in at the beginning of Turning Point USA, Charlie. Kirk's organization had as I think Charlie was spending more time on college campuses and understanding that there was less support for Israel than traditional than traditionally because of Gaza, he was coming under pressure from them. And there was in fact a sort of summit at Bill Ackman's home. Come to Jesus. How do we describe his eyebrows? The caterpillar. eyebrowed financier who somehow got dragged into all this where some people who were there said that Charlie Kirk was being intimidated by people to tow the Israel line and he wanted more freedom.

And Bill Ackman had brought people together in his lovely Hampton's home to discuss this. And then afterwards he had to come out, Bill Ackman had to come out and put out a tweet saying, actually, I didn't try to intimidate Charlie. I would never do that. But nevertheless, Charlie felt that. Yeah, no. Again, what we have here is the makings of a serious breach in the Trump base. I mean, that's what's significant about this.

So fascinating to see how he dodges it or keeps the ball moving down the road. And let's come back to this Christian nationalist thing. So Christian nationalists thing. Nationalism is separate to evangelism. Okay. I mean, obviously there's a crossover, but the evangelicals have traditionally been not all that interested in politics. They've really only had one one issue, one central issue, and that's abortion.

The Christian nationalists have a whole set of, they have a wide political agenda, including, I mean, including family values, but get married young, have children, but also a foreign policy agenda and also an agenda that has to do with equity, with the whole, I mean, essentially a very conservative view of, of individual rights. And it's not a globalist foreign policy outlook.

It's in America first. It's a sort of essentially isolationist. Yes, but that becomes actually a very meaningful foreign policy view and a view very much antagonistic to the Trump White House. And it is, let's go, I mean, let's not avoid the question. It is fundamentally, I mean, there's a reason it is called Christian nationalism. It's a white movement. It's tinged with all kinds of racial or racist undertones and overtones.

And it is Christian nationalism necessarily anti-Semitic. So if I'm Donald Trump, am I thinking, how does this impact my development on the Gaza Riviera? that Tony Blair is going to contract manage for me. Is Tony Blair going to be basically the general contractor of Gaza? I mean, and also Trump's relationship with Netanyahu, which could not be, by all appearances, closer. And whereas the Christian nationalists have now, are, you know, to them, Netanyahu is genocidal, a word that they now,

use and a war criminal. So I don't know. I mean, this is a pretty serious breach. It's extremely interesting. Are we becoming conspiracy theorists here? It's very hard not to go down. Well, no. We're just analyzing the politics of this.

This is ridiculous. It's not so. Everything they're saying about Charlie Kirk and who murdered Charlie Kirk and why is just. It's crazy. If you're just, if you've just joined us, we think it's cray. So that's, but that doesn't matter. This is just as most conspiracy theories are, it has a different purpose than the truth. Right.

And its purpose there is to take Charlie Kirk. It's a fight over the body of Charlie Kirk effectively. And Charlie Kirk has been partly because of the Trump White House. has been built up to be this, you know, the baby Jesus of the Maga Movement. Well, and Trump's successor, right? I mean, a lot of people saying, oh, he was going to be Trump's successor. I mean, he wasn't quite old enough, but, I mean, Trump was saying, oh, he would have been president. Well, whatever.

He was the baby Jesus. The future, the savior, the whatever. And now the question is who inherits that mantle? Who is the real, who would Charlie Kirk have bestowed his blessings on? So, you know, and it's interesting that, I mean, Charlie Kirk, you know, much of what Charlie Kirk was about was a religious movement, masked as a political movement. But now this really becomes a religious issue. He's the, you know, he is the Jesus figure that people are fighting over. Who has, I mean, who is the real believer, the true, the true loyalist to Charlie Kirk, not to Donald Trump.

And that's the interesting thing at this point. Michael, hold on. We're just going to take a break for these messages. Here we go. We're back talking about who will. inherit the mantle of Charlie Kirk. And how do Christine Nationalists, who certainly as Charlie Kirk would say it, you know, get married early, if you're a man, be a spiritual leader to your family, have lots of children.

I mean, many of the values he was espousing are traditional American values. How do Christian Nationalists square Donald Trump's own very complicated, past with women, Well, that goes, too, and I think that that goes to many of the Epstein questions. You know, I mean, much of Donald Trump's political career is a flight from a lifetime of sexual malfeasance. And that's not just Epstein, but it's grabbed. That's the 20 women, 28 women that have accused him of sexual abuse over the years. Yeah, and grabbed them by the. Pussy and E. Jean Carroll and again and again and again plus Epstein. And Epstein is actually

probably the deepest, darkest pool on this. You know, Trump said recently in frustration about this ongoing Epstein thing, you know, that Palm Beach in the 90s was a different time. Was that where they shared that wonderful secret? I'll say it was a different time. Or as Epstein used to say, Palm Beach in the 90s was crazy. And that's where they had their wonderful secret that Donald Trump wrote in the birthday letter. Of course, he didn't really write it as someone else. Of all the birthday letters, his was the only hoax birthday letter.

So this is, you know, all of these issues are now converging in, in, let's think of of the right word. I was going to say antipathy to Donald Trump on the MAGA side, but I don't think that's it. It is not. It is really just a recognition that the lame duck period has begun. And someone will replace Donald Trump. The MAGA movement will now transition into something else.

And everybody is trying to figure out what that is with Charlie Currack. now a piece of that, a useful piece. Another figure from the grave. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein still having an impact from the grave, Charlie Kirk having more of an impact from the grave. Yeah, no. I mean, dead people are very valuable, especially to conspiracies and also to politics because they don't talk back.

Well, we talk back. We talk back. Gosh, there's a lot to things. off there, but what is fascinating is this idea that a post-Trump future is now underway. Very much. And the strands of this, I mean, this Christian nationalism is a real interesting and scary development. And the fight over Charlie Kirk is a kind of a really interesting family feud. Well, and completely unexpected too, because of the awful manner of his death,

something that one couldn't have predicted, as is so much in Donald Trump's reign. No, and this cleaves so cleanly. This is, the Trump administration has offered a very clear, very concise narrative for what happened here. And the other side is now saying completely a lie. All right, Michael, we'll be back on Thursday to discuss more how this story develops. Will Donald Trump have pardoned Gillen Maxwell by Thursday? Yes or no. Yes or no, sir.

I think it's too soon, isn't it? Yeah, no. It's, yeah. As I said, six to nine months, yeah. Six to nine months, yeah. Six to nine months. If you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to go to wherever you get your podcast and subscribe.

subscribe to the Daily Beast. You can become a member of the Daily Beast community and we're independent media, so we appreciate your support. And we like the comments, don't we? Well, we study them. We do. We study them. We devour the comments. We share the comments. We disagree with some of the comments. And we've got a few that we're going to address today. Here is a good one from Beth 3471. Assuming Trump does not have a third term. good conversation for us today because we're already talking about a post-Trump future. What does he do next? I can answer that.

Go ahead. He returns to Mara Lago, still the king of the Republican Party, and he does exactly what he did. The last time he returned to Mar-a-Lago, which, among other things, includes a lot of golf. But the last time he was at Mar-a-Lago, who was also plotting to come back to the White House, Is there a way he could do that? Well, I don't think that that really matters. Remember, the thing about Donald Trump is not that he should be the president. It's that he should be Donald Trump.

So as long as he is in his own mind and in the mind of the base, Donald Trump, he's a happy man. And does that mean, yes, he will conduct himself. as the once in future president until he dies. Well, they always president. All right, here's another question from Peter Sell 1796. Aside from all things Epstein and or Putin, is there another person or entity which makes him paranoid or perhaps fearful?

His wife. I was just going to, we've seen Melania a little bit more recently. Is that significant? I mean, she was at the Windsor Castle. I don't think she's She was at the UN She was at Windsor Castle She got stuck on the elevator with him

Yeah well I I don't think they're Rekindling Okay they're not rekindling They're not rekindling Because we know that Barron has in theory Gone down to the NYU campus in D.C., right? And we know that she likes to be near Barron

So is she there? Yeah, possibly. Or do you think she's still in Trump Tower? Well, she still is based here. She's not, she's not in the White House. She's not in the White House. Okay. And as you say, when she turns up at the White House, people treat her as a guest. She's probably got to sign in. Here's a good question from Kristen Rice Simonson. Michael, question. To what extent does Trump's chronic lack of sleep affect his mental capabilities? Are the Adderall rumors from the past, true?

You know, I had, and I would have to look back on one of my books in which cites a specific drug that he's on, a relatively low dosage upper, called diethylene propion. That is according to Jeffrey Epstein. Interesting. A low-dose-up. Yes. But which I think is a factor. Is the sleep a factor? You know, I don't know. It's all a factor. Old people need less sleep. Do they need less sleep? They do. They do. They do.

Do you think he might be milking the health interest to distract from other things? No, I think actually that the interest. in his health is annoying to him. I mean, why else would he wear makeup on his bruised hands? I think it's annoying to him because it could be true. And whatever, it diminishes his authority. Okay, we'll be back with more comments on Thursday, but thank you for sending them in.

Don't forget to. And again, join the Daily Beast community where you get all sorts of extra, extra, extra. Extra, extra. Extra, extra. Yeah. Okay, Michael Wolf, fare thee well. Joanna Coles. Don't forget to be Beast.

And a big thank you to our Be Beast level members. Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodell. Hodel? Hodel. I prefer Hodel. And Free D.C. Thank you. And do you want to thank our production team? A Devin and a...

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