The Daily Beast Podcast - Why Megalomaniac Trump Is Wrecking Kennedy Center

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

Michael Wolff joins Joanna Coles as Trump aids declare the White House an “Epstein-free zone” where his name cannot be spoken. Wolff reveals how Trump’s go-to tactic of personal attacks and distraction still works just enough to avoid answering the one question he can’t touch, why the Epstein revelations are quietly reshuffling internal crises, and how figures from Deepak Chopra to Peter Mandelson to Silicon Valley’s self-styled gurus keep orbiting the same corrupt universe. Then comes Trump’s most compulsive, self-destructive obsession yet: his push to rebrand the Kennedy Center, justified by his own near-assassination fantasy and driven by a need to overwrite history with his name—even as artists flee, audiences vanish, and the politics make no sense. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

His first idea was not to call this the Donald J. Trump and John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. His first idea was to call this the Trump Center. He said, why does this have to be? You know, Kennedy, that was such a long time ago. And I was almost assassinated. Oh, my goodness. That's why he said it. So instead, they said, well, why don't we call it? the Donald J. Trump and John F. Kennedy Center.

So it's a perfect Trump setup. He goes for the absurd and he settles for the outlandish. Michael. Joy, Emma. I literally think I have been hallucinating a truth social that I swore that I read about Trump saying he was nothing to do with Epstein and this Epstein stuff. must end. And I made our news editor look for it. I was convinced I'd seen it. So it's so bad I am now hallucinating truth socials about Epstein. But I know he has certainly said that. I mean, innumerable times. I know. But the one I was looking for I couldn't find. Now I feel like

it's infecting me. It's infecting me like RFK Jr's brainworm. But tell me something. And there are so many truth socials that that I'm sure that that is in the way of monkeys typing a truth social that exists somewhere. Yeah, it might be. I can see it. It was in

all caps. Well, of course it was in all caps. And it ended, thank you for your attention to this matter. Michael, thank you for your... This also sounds familiar to me at this point. Well, thank you for your attention to this better.

I know you have been talking to people at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House. And I'm really fascinated. As the Epstein files claims more and more people and we'll go into the list of who, as well as talking about the Kennedy Center, what are you actually hearing from people inside the White House about how Trump is handling this? We saw him fly off the handle to Caitlin Collins, who of course stood her ground. But what are you hearing from people who are having to manage him on a daily basis? The White House is an Epstein-free zone. You can't bring up Epstein. It is as though it doesn't exist, hasn't occurred.

And of course, Donald Trump has never. known, met, interacted, corresponded with Jeffrey Epstein. And actually, Donald Trump's saving grace, is that in fact, he has not corresponded because he doesn't do email. But you must not bring it up. I mean, it still remains, it remains that one thing at the center of the Trump administration that they can't get around, they can't get through, they can't come up with a distraction of two, whatever. And so the best way, where they have sort of come down on this, I think, is just not to mention Epstein, who?

Epstein, who? Well, they had the distraction with Minneapolis. They had the distraction with Greenland. Well, Greenland's completely disappeared off the agenda. Nobody's talked about Venezuela. People are, however, of course, still talking about Renee Nicole Good and Alex Prettie. the two people who were shot in cold blood by ice agents in Minneapolis. Tom Homan, Flan names to try and...

Within the White House, they actually do secretly acknowledge that, that the one silver lining of Epstein is that it now pushes Minneapolis to the perimeters. Good Lord. Well, we know other people who've been corresponding with Jeffrey Epstein because in amongst these three million files are caches of east. emails with Deepak Chopra. No one saw that coming. The spiritual leader of the grifters. Yes, I have actually, I have met Deepak Chopra at Jeffrey Epstein. Oh, do tell, do tell. I want full details. What were you eating? Was he praying? What was he doing? I've always thought

Deepak might be a bit of a, you know, he reminds me of one of those guys that you see in Western movies selling something off the back of a wagon. Yeah, no, no, no. He was very business-like. And the thing I remember most of all, and I think, I think, I can't remember everything that I have used, but I think this is in one of my books, that Jared and Ivanka went to a Deepak Trope retreat. And he was very vivid about that, that they sat in the front row, that they were very attentive, that they followed everything, that. that they came up to him afterwards. They spoke very, they were very focused on Deepak's message. What is Deepak's message? I couldn't tell you that.

I think Deepak's message is... I don't even know, is he, does he do meditation? Does he do yoga? I have no idea what Deepak does. I think he's a sort of spiritual leader of the grifter set. Well, he certainly has sold a lot of books doing it. Well, you've sold a lot of books. There's nothing wrong with people selling a lot of books.

What I'm going to do, however, is try and find Deepak's apology so I can read it. Self-Help guru, sorry he got busted for Vile Epstein emails, is our piece by Cameron Adams in The Beast today. And he's apologized for his embarrassing appearance. in the release of the documents. And one email exchange between the pair of them, between Epstein and Chopra saw, Chopra asked Epstein, did you find me acute Israeli?

Epstein replied, does a cell have a form? Is a cell aware? Does it have emotion? Does it perform actions? And Chopra says, cells are human constructs. No such thing. Universe is a human construct.

No such thing. Cute girls are aware when they make noises. Thank God, Epstein replies. Before Chopra goes on, God is a construct, cute girls are real. Epstein replies,

so when the girl says, oh my God, I don't think many girls said, oh my God to Epstein. They might have said, oh, my God, where's the money? Anyway, Chopra says he's deeply saddened

to have been caught out. Epstein curiously identified Deepak for me as a Trump source. I mean, he said, this is your way into the Kushner and Ivanka monage is through Deepak. So are you saying he was a source for your four anti-Trump books? I never identify a source except for when they become obvious, I suppose.

Jeffrey Epstein was a big source. Well, Deepak's not doing too well today. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't, and, you know, I think it's interesting to expand this out. Everybody who came to Jeffrey Epstein's actually, in their own way, is a source about Trump. Because all of these people in so many ways track back to each other or they cross each other's paths. And that is really what is, what's the message of. this entire Epstein story. It's how all of these people at a certain level of wealth and influence are intertwined. Okay, so let's go back to what's inside Trump's head at the moment.

He's saying, or people are telling you in the White House, you can't mention Epstein, but we know that Epstein is inside Trump's head because when Caitlin Collins, the CNN White House correspondent who has her own show, The Source, and appears to be the hardest working woman in journalism. She's constantly at the White House and she's got her own show. Anyway, she's very good. And she's only 33 and she's got fabulous hair. Anyway, if I sound like I have a girl crush on her, I slightly do. Joanne, and that was a good column you wrote about Caitlin Collins's smile. Well, thank you. Thank you. And the point about that was that she asked Donald Trump about Epstein and did he have anything to say about the victims. And he just

went off at her and said, why don't you smile? You never smile. You know why you don't smile because you're not happy. And it was such an absurd, pathetic, obvious attempt at distraction. And of course, Caitlin Collins smiles. She just doesn't smile when she's discussing the Epstein files and a thousand women waiting for these things. Let's look at it differently.

Does that gambit, that Trump gambit, which is the, to change the subject, attack a reporter personally. Does it distract? Do we go off the thing? And he manages not to answer any questions about Epstein. And in a way, it actually does work. And reporters, and it's, I mean, Caitlin Collins on the smile, but there's been a hundred reporters who in the course of his white,

White House years, he's directly insulted and managed to change the subject. It's true, but we're still talking about the Epstein files. The Epstein files have come out against his wishes. Absolutely. But he doesn't, he avoids answering the question. So in his, in that particular situation, his imperative is not to answer the question because, A, he will have to lie. I never knew Epstein. I mean, and he's that, that, that lie has been exploded. And he will, he, he, he has to avoid addressing the fact, any facts of his relationship to Jeffrey Epstein. So it actually works to say, you don't smile, your, um, your mean, your fat, your whatever. Quiet, piggy. So, um, so it works. And I'm just trying to think,

how does a reporter deflect from his deflection and get back to where they want to be? I don't know the answer to that. I mean, it's pretty difficult. It's pretty difficult when the president of the United States insults you and forcibly changes the subject. Yeah, and insults you in front of a group of your peers because ideally the peers would all start hissing or making some kind of group. noise, but of course they're all competing with each other. And Caitlin Collins went straight back at him. But again, he changed the subject. And then J.D. Vance trying to get into Trump's graces, as always, doubled down on it the following day. But the other person that seems to have

forgotten about his relationship with Epstein is Peter Mandelson. I mean, Peter Mandelson, who was the British ambassador to Washington until just before Christmas, when he was. he had to resign his post because of the, his very enthusiastic letter to Jeffrey Epstein found in the birthday book, it turns out when he was business secretary was actually giving information to Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey Epstein was paying him. Okay. Let's ask the more basic question, it seems to me, is why did the labor, now this is this actually

does not come as news. everybody certainly at a certain level of British politics knew that Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein had a long relationship. They knew that Jeffrey Epstein, Peter Mandelson is gay, and they knew that Jeffrey Epstein had a hand in supporting Peter Mandelson's lover. I think husband. I think they're married. Husband. I think maybe they weren't at that time married. But at any rate, In fact, I have seen, and I'm not sure this is in the recent dump, but there is a picture of Peter Mandelson wearing a Jeffrey Epstein sweatshirt. What do you mean a Jeffrey Epstein?

How did you know it was a Jeffrey Epstein sweatshirt? It says Jeffrey Epstein. It says Jeffrey Epstein. That can't be true. That must be an AI slop photo. No, no, no, no. I have seen it in a photograph, in a prior to AI photograph. Jeffrey Epstein had sweatshirts with his own name on them.

He did. And monogram. I think this was Jeffrey Epstein written out, but then he also has it distributed them with big monograms, J-E. Did you get one? I did not. All I got was sneakers. Well, I think what you were going to say is. And there's follow-ups.

As a matter of fact, I just saw in this email dump, they become obsessed. Jeffrey Epstein became obsessed about what I thought of the sneakers. Do we know what Michael thought of the sneakers? Well, what did you think of the sneakers? Remarkable. Remarkable sneakers. Okay, but let's just, this is important.

I started to get these sneakers for other people. They were so good. Oh, my goodness. But this is important. The British Prime Minister is now fighting for his life over why did he decide to choose Peter Mandelson? Did they skate over his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? Was Peter Mandelson light on the truth about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? The thing I personally find mind-blowing about this is while he was in office, Peter Mandelson accepted $75,000 from Jeffrey Epstein, which is probably represents about...

No, I mean... Hold on, hold on, let me finish, which represents probably just over half of what he would have received as a government minister in Britain. And this man claims to be the king of PR and communications. He says as some sort of mitigation, I can't remember if I received the money or not. I have no recollection of receiving the money. And even if you don't have a recollection of receiving $75,000 from the man that, as you've said, has gone on to be the most dire. man of the 21st century, don't say it out loud. Who would say that out loud? In what world is he living? Oh, I can't remember if I got $75,000. He was on a government minister's salary. I mean, and this will be the specific thing clearly that hangs Peter Mandelson and could send Peter Mandelson to jail.

Yeah. It is, it might well appear to be some kind of insider trading actually. he's he's as I understand it he's funneling information confidential information from the British government to Jeffrey Epstein who may or may not be acting on that in making investments but who in then in turn is funneling this information to other people right I mean it could be a breach of the official secrets act too given what you sign when you start as a government minister and I mean it's absolutely mind blowing that he would do this So this is going, this has already affected the royal family. It may now bring down the labor government. Well, good news. Peter Ateer, the longevity guru, is determinedly hanging on at CBS, where Barry Weiss, the new head of news, their editor and chief of CBS, is turning him into a martyr for free speech and insisting that she will not bow the knee to cancel culture. And in the piece which you referenced, and thank you for that shout-out, I say this isn't about cancel culture.

This is about character culture. This is about the character of Peter Ateer, who decided not to go to the hospital bed of his son, whose wife, he's married to a nurse. His nurse was able to revive their baby son, when the baby son's heart stopped beating. And Peter Ateer decided he would rather spend time with Jeffrey Epstein under the guise of working,

then go and attend to his baby son. And this is a man you want to take advice from on longevity? I don't think so. I don't think so. He was the spokesman for a protein bar. They've said, well, you know, we know what you think is an high and low carb because he told Jeffrey Epstein what he thought.

I don't even know how to say it, what he thought was low carb. but I don't see anybody wanting to listen to this man about anything he thinks about at all. Did you ever want to listen to him before you knew about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? No, no, no, no, the truth is I read his, I read, well, as we've said, we said on Tuesday's podcast, both of us got sent several copies of Outlive.

So clearly someone was buying them and sending them out as gift. I didn't want to, actually. And also it seemed very obvious advice, the sort of advice your grandmother would give you, which is stay social, do a bit of exercise and eat well, everything in moderation. Okay. Do we want to talk about Brad Karp? The head of Paul Weiss, New York's lawyer, the lawyer's lawyer, resigning yesterday. No, well, the interesting thing I think about Brad, who I know, who I like, he's represented you, right? Yeah, I also like Brad Karp. I mean, he was a great friend of Joe Biden's. This

is, this is. But the interesting thing is, is, is to see this is, this is, there's a, there's a, there's a longer story here. Brad Karp is the head of Paul Weiss. Paul Weiss is the, the first and the most prominent law firm to have bent the knee to Donald Trump. When Trump came out, when he attacked law firms, when, when, when he said, he said, we're going to, we're going to take away your, your, your, um, your government access, your government business, we're going after you, basically, because you're a liberal law firm, Paul Weiss made a deal. I mean, basically, they paid off the government. They agreed to do what the government, wanted to do the Trump government, and that was under Brad's leadership. Well, then I think they agreed to do up to $40 million worth of work for the government.

They did all kinds of things. things. I mean, it was a bow down. I mean, they publicly said, we cannot continue as this law firm if we don't make a deal with the government. And basically what that meant, of course, is we can't continue making the partner allocations, the size that they are if we don't, if we don't make a deal with Donald Trump. Well, and that's because Donald Trump had said that they would cancel all the government contracts that Paul Weiss had. They would make it very difficult for Paul Weiss to represent a variety of their high-ticket clients. But that was within the firm, that was incredibly unpopular. I mean, especially among the associates in the firm. I mean, it left Brad Karp without any goodwill

within the firm. So the larger picture here of what happened to Brad is that he is with the revelation of these emails, and the emails to Jeffrey Epstein are basically, are basically, you know, you're a potential source of business, and I'm going to be nice to you. And at one point, there's an exchange of Brad getting Jeffrey Epstein to speak to Woody Allen about getting Brad Karp's son,

a job on a Woody Allen set. None of this, by the way, is illegal in any sense or even out of the ordinary. But in Brad's situation, from his Trump capitulation now to his vulnerability on this, he couldn't survive it. I mean, essentially, he's paying now for what he did for when the Trump administration. came after Paul Weiss. And certainly a lot of younger lawyers left Paul Weiss and went off either to join other companies or to set up on their own because they were so dismayed by the idea that he'd bent the knee. And I'm sure he thought he was making a practical business decision in the way that, you know,

the heads of the tech companies that turned up at the inauguration thought they were making a practical business decision. And then this is against the back. I mean, there are other firms who also made that decision, but then there are subsequently other firms who have stood up to Donald Trump. Right. So let's also talk a bit more about your column on the Kennedy Center, which you have coming out tomorrow, I think, on Substack.

Yeah, I think maybe today it comes out, yes. Okay. You know, and it's just one of those other things. And to get inside Trump's head, why did, I mean, let's look at this. what is the most dumb-ass political move you could make? Here's a good idea. Take the John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts. And let's call it the Donald J. Trump and John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts.

Does that sound like a good idea? Does that sound like that would be an idea popular with anyone? Well, I didn't know one. Why didn't Susie Wiles just say, great idea, let's discuss it tomorrow, by which point he would have gone past? Yes, I can give you the background on that because his first idea was not to call this the Donald J. Trump and John F. Kennedy Center for the performing arts. His first idea was to call this the Trump Center. Why does it have to be? Wait, and I got a good one on this.

So he said, why does this have to be? You know, Kennedy, that was such a long time ago. And I was almost assassinated. Therefore, it should be mean. That's why he said it. Yes. So within the circle, his immediate circle, first thing, you can't say, this is just a terrible idea. This is a megalomaniacal idea.

this is not good politics. You just cannot say any of that stuff to Trump. So instead, they said, well, why don't we call it the Donald J. Trump and John F. Kennedy Center. So it's a perfect Trump setup. He goes for the absurd and he settles for the outlandish. And then he goes around, by the way, telling people after that, you know, a lot of people want me to change the name of the Kennedy Center to the Donald J. Trump and John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts. I don't think anybody wanted him to do that. Who are

these people? No, well, the people who wanted are the people who were looking desperately around him for him not to say, let's call it the Trump Center. Right, of course. And that thing about you, you rule until you can't go any further until you hit the point where everybody comes in on you. And then you pull it back. Yes. So he goes for 200 percent and then pulls it back to 100 percent. But even there, what does he get from this? Absolutely nothing.

It's a catastrophe from any kind of political measure. Any kind of politician would say, yeah, this is really not a good, this is really not worth it in any way. But he goes forward with it anyway. And the results, by the way, are catastrophic. And effectively, everybody departs, every performer departs the Kennedy Center. The audience departs the Kennedy Center because if you go to the Kennedy Center, it just identifies you as a, you know, as a MAGA person.

So therefore, it can't operate. What can O'Shea Vance think about this? I know she's given up her job. I know she's having a fourth baby. but she used to be on the board of the Cincinnati Orchestra. I mean, she must be appalled that the National Opera has left the building, that Renee Fleming, arguably one of America's best, if not best singers, has left, that Philip Glass has left, that Hamilton refused to go on there.

I mean... Okay, well, it is. No, we can go. I mean, everybody who works in the orbit of Donald Trump, or who exists in the orbit of Donald Trump, has to accept the fact that he is Donald Trump. And when you accept that fact, you have to accept the fact that you are dealing with a personal person

who is often irrational. Therefore, what can you do? You know, you're in the orbit of Donald Trump and you perhaps think you're in the orbit of Donald Trump precisely because he is irrational. So therefore, therefore, you yourself live in an irrational world, which you have to accept. I guess. I'm sure she does have to accept that.

Her husband's livelihood, her husband's future, possibly her husband's place in history, is now dependent on Donald Trump. So you are not going to say, you dummy, how could you possibly have done this? You're barely going to think this. And a word from our sponsors. And we're back inside Trump's head. We had a very interesting piece in The Beast based around Jackie Kennedy's 1964 letter that she sent to the centre's chairman, Roger Stevens, about her apprehensions of naming it the John Kennedy Center.

because she was concerned that it would become part of a political football. And she says, whatever reservations I may now have about having permitted it to be named after President Kennedy, I think it's only fair to you and to all the people who've worked so hard to put them aside for the time being. So they've had a back and forth about the fact that she's concerned about it. And she says, last winter, when the decision was made to name it after him, so this was the winter after he'd been assassinated. I was not capable of making any decision, and so many people were pressurising me. I don't think he needs any memorial. His grave and his library are that.

The centre was a problem he inherited, and he would have done it differently had he initiated it. All I care about now is sparing him controversy. He has a right to peace now. Anyway, she then goes on to say, you must understand my hesitancy. As I said, I will work for it and with you as hard as I can. with an optimistic outlook, and then in a year or so, I will make my final decision. Anyway, obviously she agreed for it to be called the John F. Kennedy Center, but a very moving letter and a very different kind of idea of a memorial for her husband, which is that it would be a simple grave.

And I think another interesting aspect of this is that it did not become a political football. And in fact, very quickly, it became a part of Washington life and Washington culture. The building that they built is Edward Durrell Stone building became a kind of iconic piece of modernist architecture on the Potomac. So none of that came to pass until now, 70 plus years. And for those who haven't been, it is a really beautiful building. I've only attended a couple of things there, but I did go to the Kennedy Center honors one year. And it's a really magnificent occasion. You have a sense of occasion.

It's lit beautifully. It feels like America's premier art center. And it's just horrible it's being closed down. Now what will happen is that it is being closed down theoretically for renovation. I talk about this in this substack that I did today, and what they are already anticipating in the White House, that it will be stripped down. The architecture, as it exists now,

this modernist architecture will be denuded. It will be rebuilt in imperial, neoclassical style, and its function will change. It will be much more for arena-like spectacles instead of the classical performing arts. And it will be when it reopens at some point in the future, the Trump Center. Well, Trump said he's keeping the steel. When asked if he was just demolishing the whole thing, he said,

I'm keeping the steel, I'm keeping the steel. I mean, it will take, so it will be everything that makes this, this is this an architectural statement will be gone. only the... So he really is remaking Washington. He's remaking the Kennedy Center. He's remaking the East Wing, which seems to have gone very quiet.

We don't seem to have seen any plans. Thank you to everybody who's been emailing Esperanus, or info at Esperanus.com, the architect Lombaranus, who's now taken on the East Wing. But the interesting thing, the thing I want to keep coming back to here is not that he is doing,

this, but that he gets nothing for doing it. That this is, so he is doing something, and this is inside Trump's head, he is doing something which he has a compulsive need to do, obviously, that is, that gains him nothing, that is in fact probably self-destructive. It is a political error of fantastic proportions, and yet he does it anyway. And he's not supposed to do it. And he's not supposed to do it. There's supposed to be a safeguard of Congress. He's supposed to ask them, and he's totally driven a coach and horses through any permission needed from Congress. And again, not to get anything that will be to his advantage. Right. Right. So Tulsi Gabbard, can you explain to me the Tulsi Gabbard story? We touched on it very briefly on Tuesday.

a whistleblower within the intelligence department registered a complaint about her, which is apparently so serious that nobody is allowed to know anything about it. It was being held back from Congress. It's now gone to Congress. Where is it now? There was an oblique piece about it in the Wall Street Journal today saying that pretty much everything in it had been redacted from what I could understand. Nobody knows anything. But that must mean it is very bad.

It was the sort of the message there. Well, how much worse can it be than people think she's a Russian asset? Well, maybe that's it. Maybe it is confirmation or further details of that. I mean, the Tulsi Gabbard story is a fantastic one. I mean, it's like, who is she? What is she doing here? Where does she come from?

She's the member of a cult, which we know. She used to be a Democrat. She lives in Hawaii. It's the most bizarre. She is a bizarre character to be head of national intelligence last spotted because she laid very low. And at one point you predicted she was going to get fired. She was definitely in the hot seat. And then she suddenly cropped up in Georgia overseeing the FBI taking receipt of boxes of ballots from the 2000 election in Fulton.

No. And she's one of those political figures. and we see more and more of them, who see politics as an entrepreneurial act, which is to say, I'm not really connected to any party. I'm not really connected to any ideology. I am here for my own advancement and advantage. And this is all about how I'm going to play the system. So she came into Congress as a Democrat, but was never a part of the Democrat. But was never a part of the Democratic Party, as a matter of fact, was a kind of peculiar person in it. Nobody really knew what to make of her. Then she became, still as a Democrat, she was, she almost became the ambassador

to the United Nations under Trump. You know, she was, she was the runner up to that job. But clearly, clearly at that point she saw her future go in, she saw the opportunities in that direction. And she left the Democratic Party. In that very relative time frame, she suddenly became a Tucker Carlson acolyte frequently on his show, frequently taking positions, you know, largely, largely, you know, isolation. America first positions, we should not be in any way in pro-Russian positions. And then found her way now back into, she didn't get the job, the job she wanted in the first administration, but hung around long enough, making relationships with Carlson and, and

others in the MAGA fringe to enter this second Trump administration. And also she was making friends with President Assad. She went to Syria. She became a Syria apologist, again, something that nobody really could understand. And to your point about entrepreneurialism, I don't know if she was making money along the way. If she was pulling a Peter Mandelson, perhaps she won't be able to remember if she made any money. But she's the most unlikely candidate to be head of America's national intelligence. intelligence services. So goodness knows what they have on her. And remember, has no background in

intelligence. Well, she was very briefly in the military, right? We, I actually had her to a lunch years ago. I, I hold a lunch every year. It's called the Power 100. Super fun. And it started when I was the editor of Cosmo. And I wanted to pull together the women I most wanted to meet that I thought sounded interesting. And she came to one of them. She was newly into Congress. She was still a Democrat at that point. And she turned up and she was charismatic. There's no question she was charismatic. She spoke to the group. And just define that charisma a minute. Well, she's very striking looking and we've seen her sort of Susan Sontagian white stripe, the skunk stripe, which immediately differentiates her from all the other MAGA-looking women. Kimberley

Gilfoyle, Christy Gnome. And she has a sort of Riz about her. She has a presence, is what I would say, which was notable. And everybody was like, oh my goodness, she's going to be one of the future leaders of the Democratic Party. She speaks well. She holds herself physically well.

She doesn't disappear in the room. And Hawaii seemed a glamorous place to represent, too. And slightly off the beaten tracks. So she wasn't quite treated to the scrutiny that perhaps other politicians were. Anyway, look where we are now. And nobody's allowed to know what is at the centre of this allegation against her. Could it get more bizarre? Yes.

It could. It could. It could. It could. It will. Right. How bad is it? Is it Mandelson bad where you discover your business secretary is taking money from Jeffrey Epstein to give him information?

And the Mandelson thing, actually, if you think about it, is quite conventional. I mean, he got caught, a hand in the cookie jar. He'll pay for it. He is paying for it. The government itself might pay for this. Whereas here, that's not necessarily the case anymore. People get caught and not only do they not pay for it, it actually elevates them, propels their career.

I mean, corruption is that. the currency of success. Well, look at Tom Homan, overseeing ICE now in Minneapolis, who appeared to be caught on film. Taking suitcases of money. Well, taking a bag of money, taking a bag of money, and it was dismissed. The minute Trump came in, it was dismissed. And there he is, you know, in theory, de-escalate. the situation in Minneapolis with ice.

And also, I heard a figure today, which I thought was remarkable, that they've sent 3,000 people, as we know, 3,000 ICE agents masked men into the streets of Minneapolis. They've arrested 4,000 illegal immigrants, which doesn't seem to be a very good ROI. Whatever way you look at this, that is not an effective ROI. Once more, commercial break. And Michael Wolf and I are back inside Trump's head.

Michael, another place that Jeffrey Epstein was obsessed about and was always wearing the sweatshirt is Harvard. What is the latest with the president and Harvard? Yes, I mean, not because of Jeffrey Epstein, but because of Harvard being Harvard, Donald Trump targeted Harvard as the tip of the spear of his campaign to, you know, attack elite, elite American educational institutions. So at any rate, this has been going on almost since the beginning of Trump's, of Trump's term, threatening Harvard, penalizing Harvard, suing Harvard, Harvard suing the government. And it had finally come.

And Harvard has been resisting. Other universities have been settling. Harvard has resisted Trump and the Trump government, despite threat after threat after threat after threat, resisting. So this past week, there was a report. And Stephen Schwartzman, Stephen Schwartzman is the head of Blacksson,

Stone, a major financial group, and also a quite a supporter of Donald Trump. I mean, he sort of goes waivers from time to time, but NetNet, a supporter of Donald Trump, also a supporter of Harvard. So he has stepped in to be the peacemaker or the negotiator. In the, about a somewhat less then a week ago, there was a story, I believe it broke in the New York Times, that partly because of Schwartzman, Trump had relented on his demand that Harvard, in order to settle this long-running dispute, Harvard would pay $200 million. Harvard had, that was the demand. Harvard refused to do it.

They were deadlocked on that point. But this past week, it came out that Trump had relented. They would come to a settlement. Harvard would not have to pay any money and a sort of a sort of save face settlement for all concerned. But then as soon as this came out and nobody is disputing those facts that that's what happened. Well, actually, the only person who was disputing that is Donald Trump. as soon as this came out, he said, no, I'm not going to settle for nothing and I'm not going to settle for 200 million. Harvard has to pay me a billion.

So again, we have that Trump in full inside Trump's head. He cannot look weak. He cannot look like he has compromised in any sense. he cannot do what would be to his political advantage. Instead, he has doubled down or from 200 million to 1 billion. He has not doubled down. He has five times down. And which won't happen.

They're clearly not going to, they wouldn't settle for 200 million. They're not going to settle for $1 billion. In the end, Trump will end up looking in effect. And yet he has pushed that to this point. He has done the thing that is the most politically disadvantageous thing he could do. Here is Donald Trump. Meet Mr. Donald J. Trump. The president of Harvard is Alan Garber who got his job because the previous president,

Claudine Gay, was hounded out of office, basically, after failing to give a good answer to Elise Steffernick, who was the congresswoman from New York, who thought that she, a big Trump supporter who'd gone to Harvard, so she's a Harvard alum, she goes after Claudine Gay and the president of Penn and the president of MIT for being unable to say that anti-Semitic protests on the campuses were in fact bad. She becomes there a national. figure, a figure that certainly among a handful of the most ascendant figures in the Republican Party, decides in a, that she is going to be, speaking of Tulsi Gabbard and the, the ambassadorship to the United Nations, she's going to be the ambassador to the United Nations.

But then Trump decides for a reason we don't quite know, he doesn't really want her in that job. And she is herself basically hounded out of Congress, sent back to New York State, where she then, she then decide she's going to run for a governor. But Trump doesn't really want her to do that either and has since been hounded out of politics by Donald Trump. If you can explain that, which I cannot other than Donald Trump is a man of petty grievances, caprices, and they. that he will always be counted on to do the thing that is most politically disadvantaged to him. That's where we are. Well, and the lesson is that loyalty to Donald Trump is one way. It's just one way it's to him.

And Elise Stefaneck has prostrated herself for him. But even that makes sense. You can see, yes, that is. You have to be loyal to him. but she did demonstrate her loyalty. And it is not just loyalty. It is, there's a logic to that. And I think what you have to get to, to be fully inside Donald Trump's head, is a world in which there is no logic,

in which he will put his name on the Kennedy Center, in which he will make, he will have made a deal to a face-saving deal with Harvard, a situation. He shouldn't have been in once he got in. now the trick is to get out of it. But when that came clear, when that came out, he then he then doubles down, or as we say, five times down on it, creating again the situation, which he will not be able to get out of until he embarrasses himself again. He's like a spiteful five-year-old boy that no one is able to control. The parents have given up.

The parents, i.e. Congress, have completely. completely given up. And everybody's just... No plan, no plan, no strategy, no... It's as if he's in a permanent tantrum. It's something to behold. And we are all beholden to one man, as you're always saying, government of one. Government of one. I mean, it must be a nightmare being J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio and having to dance on those hot coals around him. You're just trying to survive and thinking on the other side of this is success, is history, is your future. future. Alcoholics personality, as Cece Weil said. I can tell you, since I'm now almost in the situation where I've been around as long as anyone in the Trump world, it will end in tears for you, J.D. Vance, for you, Marco Rubio.

But it may end up in tears for America. In fact, America's already shedding tears. I think we can safely say. All right, Michael, you know, a few things to call out from people. One, I mispronounce Haiku, and I was pronouncing it Haiku, and someone wrote in to say, I've got to do better. A few people felt that you were wrong to shout out Melinda Glades and say that she was gloating over the news that Bill may or may not have contracted an S-T-I from a Russian friend of Jeffriette, and was trying to smuggle her antibiotics. And what did they think she was doing?

They thought she was just remarking on... Expressing concern for her... No, I think they thought that she was... ...of her former husband. I think she... I think they thought she was speaking on behalf of women who feel very sad that their marriages have collapsed. Yeah, I am...

Well, I'm just pointing out that we had... You know, I get, no, I get it. I think that that's... I mean, Melinda Gates did nothing wrong here. I think that ain't human. I think that ain't human nature. I certainly didn't say she did anything wrong. I think she's...

But I do think she's... There is unmistakable Shadenfreude at all of the terrible things that she believes. Well, what was interesting... That her husband did. Well, what was interesting was that she chose to address it. Usually people just have no comment and move on. I don't know.

I've seen a lot of people in marriages. This is, they really like, they don't like it to go unacknowledged that their former spouse has been a jerk of immense proportions. Well, perhaps then the exception to that is Mackenzie Bezos, who's done nothing apart from right enormous. checks for people. Would that we could all be like McKenzie Bezos? Okay, Michael, we have a new Limerick writer. We have a new Limerick writer. And we also have another haiku from Lillia. The haiku, which I'm now... Are you sure you're saying limerick correctly?

Well, how else would you say limerick? Limerick. There must be a Gaelic way to say limerick. Did you just say Gaelic way to say limerick? I did. I did. I don't know what it would be. All right, the haiku on reptilian brain by Lillia is lizard cortex flares. A fly twitches, he lunges, brainstem runs the show. I like brainstem runs the show, five syllables. It's 575 for a haiku, right? Okay, and here is our new Limerick writer, Garfried, you're taking the backseat just for this episode. This is from someone called MKFI-1JK.

The once was a moron who jokes. Everything, everyone's a hoax. His eyes then like slits. His speech practically spits the uneducated. I love those folks. I think anything that brings out poetry, even limericks, to politics is in advance. Well, if you have been, thank you for listening. Don't forget to leave us a comment on YouTube.

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