The Daily Beast Podcast - Why These Two Republicans Are Trump’s Most Likely VP Picks

Episode Date: April 7, 2024

The New Abnormal team has picked who they believe Donald Trump will select as his running mate. Plus! Andy Levy talks to CBS News correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti about his new book Before It's Gone: Stories From the Front Lines of Climate Change in Small-Town America. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedinan, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new abnormal.

We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with CBS News National correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti, who's here to talk about his new book, Before It's Gone, stories from the front lines of climate change in small town America. But first, let's have some fun. Okay, before we get started with these clips, I want to see, because we're getting close to the time Mr. Trump's going to announce his VP, who do you guys have as a pick? Interesting. I've got mine. Okay.

I got one. I'll go Christie Dome first so that you guys have a safe space. That's yours, too? That's mine, too, yeah. Which is fine. I mean, I think it's okay if we agree. Yeah, I mean, look, Christy Gnome is going through all these makeovers. She's got the new teeth.

She's got the new hair. She is, as I forget who pointed out. this out. She's looking more and more like a Trump family member every day. I'm just going to be honest here. I don't think Trump is going to go with someone like Elise Daphatic or Nancy Mace. I think he wants something that fits his version of attractive. And so that's why I just have a feeling it's going to be Christy Noem. Katie, what's her name, Britt? After her state of the union response, enough Republicans looked at that and were like, holy shit, she sucks. That I don't think it's going to be her. So I really do feel like it's going to be Christyneau.

Oh, poor kitchen, Katie. I know. I really thought it was her time to shine. I'm going to go with Raphael. Wow. Rafael Cruz. Really? Yes. I'm going to go with the number one podcaster in America, evidently. I think that he wants to court the Latino vote and for whatever it is that we think about Ted Cruz and his Latin onus, I will say that he's from a place, you know, that he needs. He has a background that he can lift up and he knows that he can insult him, his wife, pretty much kick this guy around and he'll just like gleefully be that cartoon sidekick that he needs and just be grateful for, you know, for the opportunity to be close in proximity to power.

Yeah, I think he goes with Raphael. Solid case. I would never, yeah. I mean, look, I think Cruz would do it in a heartbeat, but. I mean, I think Cruz would, if Donald Trump told him to divorce his wife and maybe marry, you know, a gnome, right? Like, I think, like, I'm pretty sure that, like, he would do it. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Corey Lewandowski would be very upset. Yes. I mean, there is the case that Trump is not going to pick a woman because he wants to portray. strongman thing and go against Biden. And, you know, you got to say, like, what you laid out there, if he's making the case, it's probably a pretty good case despite Ted Cruz, apparently, according to headlines today, in panic mode that he's going to lose his Senate seat. Yeah.

He's just so unlikable and just, like, and I don't mean just because of his positions. I mean, personally. Or his face. Yeah. Just personally. I just, I think if he goes with a guy, it'll be so much, he'll be Tim Scott or maybe Byron Donald's. He's not going.

Oh, my God. You want to talk about it. If you're not going to pick Nikki Haley, because you say that she doesn't have the complexion for the position, I do not think that you go, well, with the faceless Tim Scott and Byron McDonald. I think he's too scared about the closet and Tim Scott's house, if you know what I'm saying. Tim Scott is married, I believe. He's engaged in the.

Tim Scott is engaged to a lovely. woman. So I don't know what you're talking about. He's known for a very long time. It is definitely, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Well, I noticed we didn't mention somewhat one Nancy Mace, who's doing her best to suck up to Mr. Trump to be his VP.

And here she talks with Fox Businesses Maria Bartramo about Kevin McCarthy and well. Can I just say something before you play this? Yes, please. Clips. One, Mike Johnson. Do you want to see change in terms of these CRs. Marjorie Taylor Green says she's ready to take a motion to vacate the chair. Where are you on this issue? Congresswoman. Oh, I don't support the motion to vacate the chair. In fact,

the motion that was filed wasn't privileged. And so we're actually not even going to vote on it. And so, you know, Mike Johnson was dealt a bad hand, the former speaker, disgraced former speaker, set up a lot of bad deals between that debt to a deal with this Jim's from. Kevin McCarthy is not disgraced. I consider him disgraced, absolutely. Why? Because he wouldn't tell the truth to the party to the conference. He lied over and over again. Come on, you can't. That's not provable. That's not provable. That he lied. Absolutely. But the bottom line, when Ukraine funding, are you going to vote to send money to Ukraine? That's what Mike Johnson says he's going to bring to the floor. Well, Kevin McCarthy recruited a puppet to run against me in my Republican primary. You're going to puppetcatherine.com. He recruited somebody that can't win a general election in a purple district. Yes. He's a disgrace former speaker. When it comes to Ukraine funding, we'll be voting on supplemental aid at sound. like next week when we go back to D.C.

Don't you think you all should stick together in some ways? You are hanging on by a thread in the majority. When are you actually going to unite as a party and get things done? Right. I agree, which is why Kevin McCarthy shouldn't go after fellow Republicans that can win in general elections and purple seats. You can go to Nancy Mace.org and learn more about our campaign and shipping.

If you want to fight the establishment and fight D.C., fight somebody like Kevin McCarthy who's coming after Republicans who can win in November. Tom's from, thank you. Good to see you, Nancy Nace. We appreciate your time. Quick. Oh, my God. God.

Damn. I mean, for Maria Bartaromo to go after you like that. I know. That's unreal. And then for her response to be like, because he lied, he lied to the Republican conference. Bitch, you support Donald Trump. What are you talking about? Like, what are you talking about?

It's just funny that she straight up admits that it's completely personal for her. Right. That it has nothing to do with him actually. being disgraced, like, oh, I don't know, being impeached twice or being indicted multiple times or anything like that. It's just like, oh, he put up a candidate against me and so I don't like him, so he's disgraced. Yeah. Oh, God, miss me. Let's also say that it rises a hair above page six qualifications of gossip that her and McCarthy may have had a thing going for a little while. That's true. Okay. Oh, wow. Hey.

Yeah, so I feel like there's some other things going on here. But no matter what, I love whatever these people get into petty fights about each other. And the passion with which they do it, I really admire. Do you think they broke up because of his limp cavil? Oh. Oh, Andy, I didn't know you were a page six reader like me. That was right out of there. That's good.

That's the good stuff right there. Okay. Unfortunately, back to the bad stuff. Trump campaign advisor Charlie Kirk, who's always giving the campaign such great ideas, is here to talk about the winning issue he sees with getting the women vote here. A lot of them are on birth control too. And birth control like really screws up female brains, by the way. Every single one of you to make sure that your loved ones are not on birth control. It increases depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation.

Birth control is the number one most prescribed medication for young ladies under the age of 25. they will give birth, young ladies birth control for pimples, for acne, to control their moods, their period. It is awful. It's terrible. And it creates very angry and bitter young ladies and young women. Then that bitterness then manifests into a political party that is the bitter party. I mean, the Democrat Party is all about bring us your bitterness and, you know, we'll give you free stuff. It's like we'll trade you, you know, bitterness for stuff essentially.

That's like the Democrat Party. Is he on birth control? because he sounds bitter as fuck. It would explain something about the weird shapes of his body, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah. I think that was the same little speech or whatever it was where he talked about women in their 30s being past their prime. He has said stuff like that. His wife is 35 years old, by the way.

So she must have been really, really psyched to hear that. I want them to continue talking. Like, if this is what you're saying to court the women vote, I mean, this is as good. good as telling the young woman that was at a CPAC, what, to hold a baby and then decide if you want to be a surgeon. Like, they don't want women to have control over anything other than what's for dinner. If that is how you think, if that's what you think of women, if that's where you think that women should be, just keep fucking talking.

Because I'm certain, I'm certain you're going to win that way. I'm certain of it. In my lifetime, I've never seen the Democrats more giddy to take up a culture war. issue than IVF and birth control. They literally could not be more excited about this, but this brilliant strategist here, he's really going in on all the popular things, MLK, this. Yeah. Yep.

So now we come to person I like to think of as a true deplorable hate influencer Chai Rush, who some people know as lives of TikTok whose account regularly inspires bomb threats and other fun stuff. And she was proven recently to be a bit empty in her cause when she was interviewed by Taylor Lorenz. But listeners, I have to tell you, when you listen to this, you may say, Jesse, you've played this before. And I assure you, I have not. Because now we have another conservative who has no idea what the fuck woke is, yet their whole existence is based on fighting.

Let's listen. The destruction of normality. Are you sick and tired of America isn't worth fighting and dying for? It's a great country. It's a greatest country in Israel. Are you guys able to hear that? No, I could, I heard America is the great, great country. So she says, the audio is very bad.

We're going to have to touch it up. She says, she basically stutters and can't answer. She says it's the destruction of normalancy. I, not, she would. Is that different from normalcy? Yeah, she fucks up the word. And what do you call it? And then the other guy has to jump in and say it's the destruction of America and

fighting for America being so beautiful and great. I mean, if you can't define what your, like, clarion call to action is, I just don't understand how people follow you. But then I realize that their followers don't care whether or not, like, they can define, you know, the issue, whether it doesn't matter. It's like, all they need is for somebody to hate the same people that they do and give them permission to hate those people and then cloak it in bullshit patriotism because their patriotism is wrapped up in white supremacy and cis heteronormativity. That's what it is. And so I know for us,

it's like, oh, look, you're an idiot because you can't even define X, Y, and C, but to their followers, it doesn't matter. Just say, ah, it's the gays, it's the blacks, it's this, that, and the other thing without saying that. Say it's DEI, it's woke Legos and it's woke Disney. And then like, you get a round of applause and a million fucking followers. I know we're not on the segment, but fuck them. In addition to everything else, she's pretty stupid. So glad she's leaving the school in Oklahoma, though. Yeah.

She's just one of the most hateful people in this country. And that is the thing to me is that like this yet again shows the thing of like when, you know, we talk about being a reactionary. Like this is a person's social media is just whipped up in. into a frenzy where they've dedicated their sad existence to doing this despite apparently all they go through of getting threats and getting their engagement broken off and all the sacrifices they make for the cause when they can't even figure out what the fuck the cause is. Yeah, and then they're surprised when people laugh at them when they actually go out into public.

Jonathan Vigliotti is a CBS News National Correspondent and an Emmy and Morrow Award winning journalist. His new book, Out Now, is a riveting look at the climate disasters he's covered and the people who were impacted by them. It's called Before It's Gone, Stories from the Front Lines of Climate Change in Small Town America, and he joins me now. Jonathan, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Oh, absolutely. I want to start with something that really struck me in the book. I do a lot of author interviews, and often they're professors or doctors or some kind of lifelong expert in their field. Someone's smart. which you are as well.

But this book struck me. It felt more like the reader was almost accompanying you on your journey to learning all this stuff. And I just, I love the way that that played out. I appreciate that that was your takeaway. And that was one of my goals. As a journalist, I've always found storytelling to be a powerful tool to help others, including myself, understand the world and how it works. And as a journalist with CBS News, I've spent probably the last six, seven years.

here domestically and bawling across the country covering extreme weather event after extreme weather event, everything from wildfires and hurricanes to tornadoes. And I've been given this incredible access to these front lines where I have been able to have this priceless education, being able to connect the dots between climate change, the science behind it, how it is radicalizing our weather events and how those weather events are impacting more and more of our main streets across the country. So through writing this, I was hoping, as I think this resonated with you, and that's why I appreciate it so much to take readers along for this journey to those front lines so that they could, through my words, connect those dots themselves to understand, to listen

and to hopefully take action in their own communities. Yeah, no, it's such a powerful way to tell a story, and I really appreciate it as I was reading it. I want to start in the prologue to the book. You write about last year's horrific Maui wildfires and the utter destruction of Lahaina, and you lay out what seemed to me to be two themes that. were repeated throughout the book. The first is government officials blaming climate change after years of ignoring scientists and not doing what needed to be done to help at least mitigate against this. And the second is the importance of habitat change. Or as you refer to it as, Habitat Change is

the second, always less spoken about accelerant. Maybe start by explaining what habitat change is because it's just so key to this as I learned from reading the book. It is. And I'll take one step back just to go over climate change briefly because because obviously it's significant that we reduce our greenhouse gas emissions that are emitted through the burning of fossil fuels. But it is often a daunting task to do so because it requires the global community to come together as one. And while we are making gains, even if we were to cut all greenhouse gas emissions today, because of a delayed feedback loop, scientists, it could take decades to reverse those impacts. I liken it to taking aspirin for a headache.

It takes at least 30 minutes to stop that headache. Well, the same is true for our planet, but much longer to reduce the fever. For our planet, habitat change, though, is another change that we can take immediate action on by reversing the impacts that we as a growing population have had on our habitats, on our main streets. By conserving water, restoring wetlands, protecting our forests, we have the ability as individuals and individual communities to build more resilient towns. And I found that a powerful lesson that I have learned time and time again. We can talk more about Lahaina, which I think is unfortunately a perfect. example of this. Yeah. But I find it very empowering to understand that we have the ability in our own backyards to take action. And the more of us that do, the more resilient our communities as a whole

will be. Yeah, absolutely. And I want to talk about the first thing I mentioned, the pattern that seems to recur over and over in the book as you covered disaster after disaster of scientists being ignored for years and government's not doing their damn job. And then kind of after the fact, the government officials basically, they basically put on t-shirts that say, don't blame me, it was climate change. Exactly. And before I started writing this book, I wrote down in my journal before every disaster, there is usually a scientist that has been ignored. And Lahaina was unfortunately a perfect example of that. And there are lessons that we all can learn from what happened there. My team and I were one of the first network crews to arrive in the disaster zone in Lahaina. 80% of that community was destroyed by fire. More than 100 people were killed. We actually couldn't drive into Lahaina. We met a police officer who had set up a roadblock. So we had to bypass it. by chartering a boat and an hour and a half later arrived on that cindered shoreline where we saw survivors in a state of shock who were surveying what little was left of their community. Many people that we spoke was said there were no evacuation orders. In the aftermath of this, in the

days and weeks that followed in press conferences, I was there and I listened as local leaders described this fire as an explosion. It was like a bomb going off, they said, the implication being that there was no time to take action. But as we learned, there was a nearly decade-long fuse that could have been put out at any point because in 2014, scientists on the island came out with a report that said the warming climate was increasing the vulnerability of wildfire on the island. And they even had suggestions for how to prevent a fire from those habitat change aspects, including restoring the wetlands that had been depleted because of population growth, removing dry invasive grasses, and updating homes with weatherproof materials, fireproof materials.

But ultimately, that report back in 2014 was filed away. And action was not taken in time. And as we walk through miles of destruction, neighborhood after neighborhood, there was one home that was still left standing. And I write about it in this book. It's the home with the red roof. That's how locals know it today. And this was a home whose homeowners had recently made updates. And they implemented those scientific remedies.

And ultimately, as a result, survived. Even though every single home around it did not. And across the country, towns impacted by storms by different names, there are a lot. are examples of homes with the red roof. People who have listened and who have oftentimes, without the help of leaders, taken action on their own. Yeah. And along those lines, what I really appreciated as a reader was as you go from disaster to disaster, you take the time to talk to people who were directly affected by what happened, talking to survivors, talking about to people who had lost loved ones. And the empathy that you have for these folks really humanized all

the stories beyond just saying, you know, this wildfire or this hurricane cost 500 million. dollars in damage or X number of houses were destroyed. You actually talked to the folks who had lived in those houses. That's correct. We do this often as, and unfortunately, as we're reporting to these front lines, meeting people who are experiencing the worst moments in their lives. I, you know, I talked about how before every disaster, there's a scientist who's been ignored. I expand on that in this book to survivors who have been forgotten. And I think survivors through their stories offer survivor guides for everyone else. Ways to prevent a disaster from happening in our own communities and ways to rebuild after a disaster strikes. And I was inspired to really lean into profiling

these survivors because of a TED talk that I saw years ago on YouTube from Dan Gilbert, a Harvard psychologist who was speaking about the keys to happiness, but pointed out this part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex that unlike any other animal in the kingdom, gives us humans this unbelievable power to imagine things before they happen as part of this adaptation to prevent us essentially from doing stupid things. And in large part, that part of our imagination is triggered through stories, stories that are shared to us from friends, family, passed down from ancestors, strangers, and the media. And when the storytelling is clear, when the information is clear, people take action. Are you familiar with those anti-smoking campaigns on television that

future people in some state of suffering. Oh, yeah. Yeah, warning others not to pick up a pack. Well, those ads actually matter. And I was looking into this just a short while ago because in New York City, the health department there found for every dollar it spent on its anti-smoking campaign, it saved $32 and medical costs. So people clearly understood the messaging. They saw the threat, they knew what to do, and they took action. But with climate change, which can be abstract and daunting, for some reason, we have turned that part of our brain off. We have had a failure. of imagination, failure to imagine it the worst case scenario, and also a better way forward. Wow, that is absolutely fascinating. Another thing I found interesting in the book,

your repeated use of the word radicalized, as in radicalized elements, elements being fire, air, water, and earth. I don't think I'd ever really come across that phraseology before, and I'm wondering if it's something you picked up from scientists or if you had your own little aha moment and came up with it, because I think it's a great term. It was, and thank you. I came up with it and it came from seeing the kinds of storms that were hitting specifically the West Coast wildfires. We're talking historic wildfire after historic wildfire. At one point a few years ago, we listened as firefighters started calling these fires megafires. And the impact from our warming climate is leading to extremes across all kinds of weather.

And so from that, I came up with radicalized weather because the weather that we're seeing today, it's not normal weather. Nothing about the weather that we're experiencing is what we used to feel 50, 60 years ago. And I was hoping that through describing this weather as radicalized, I could help in my own way further connect those dots and make those links for people. Yeah, like I said, it's an absolutely great way to describe it. I mentioned the four elements, fire, water, air, and earth, and you divide the book into those four elements. And you just touched on this a bit, but you start with fire and you call it the new class of fire

that exploded in the 21st century, and that's these mega fires, I assume, that you're talking about. That's correct. And these fires are a direct result of climate change and habitat change. In the 1800s, in what is today, California, fire was a common occurrence. 12% of the state would be covered in wildfire, except it was slow-moving, low-intensity fire. And it had an ecological purpose. It got rid of dry vegetation, dead vegetation to make way for new growth. But then in the 1900s, humans came in. The Forest Service created the first wildland firefighters and it was their job to suppress fires so that populations and communities could grow. And this worked for a while, nearly a century. But then you had this growth and this overgrowth of dry, dead vegetation building up, partly because it wasn't being

lit up every single season and also because you had a warming climate that was increasing the amount of dry and dead vegetation. And then at the turn of this century, when a spark lit, it was like a tinderbox. An explosion would go off. And for the first time in the past, I I would say 10 years, firefighters really expressing a sense that modern tools to hold back these flames are no longer enough. Mother Nature is outpacing our grip on our elements. It's truly scary. And as you go through the book, the same thing seems to hold for the other elements. And there was another thing I found fascinating in the water section.

You start the section talking about Hurricane Laura, which devastated Louisiana in 2020. But you interspersed this story with another about your trip to Greenland to see the ice sheet. What's the connection here? Yeah, that was an incredible trip to Greenland where I joined scientists who were tracking how fast the glaciers, specifically the Helheim glacier, was melting and releasing ice and water into our oceans. They were also tracking how warm our ocean temperatures are. As our oceans get warmer, they release more vapor, more moisture into the atmosphere, which creates this atmospheric muscle that leads to a storm quickly growing into a massive hurricane. So in the past four decades alone, there has been a 40% increase in the likelihood of a storm turning into a major hurricane. So Greenland really is the gateway to so much of the weather that we are now seeing.

And the hurricane that struck in Louisiana, Hurricane Laura, a direct impact of how our climate is melting our glaciers and the domino effect that that has on communities, not just across our country, but across the world. And what was so interesting, too, from that experience was to see the frustration. that a lot of these scientists had when they were doing their work, wondering if this would resonate with others. They invited me there to help communicate their science. And they realized that their science truly only matters if people understand the impacts and what that science truly means in real terms. Yeah. Frustrated scientists seems to be a theme of the 21st century. I mean, I've, you know, I've talked to people like Dr. Peter Hotez, who was, you know, very big in vaccinations and just the attacks that he's been under from anti-vaccinations.

people, et cetera, and just the idea that you develop this incredible thing. And here, in your case, you have scientists documenting exactly what's going on and then just feeling sometimes like they're just shouting into the void. Yeah. There is a tremendous amount of frustration. And, you know, these scientists go to great lengths and they spend their entire careers, decades, collecting this data before they put it out into the world. So what they are putting out into the world, it is credible. It is fact-based. And it should be taken. seriously. And unfortunately, time and time again, we see all kinds of science, especially climate science being politicized as a way of dismissing it. Yeah, it's just, it's frightening. Going back to the

four elements, you call air the alpha of this group. What makes it the most powerful of the elements? It all comes back to our warming atmosphere. And as I was discussing earlier, the impact that our warming atmosphere has in radicalizing our weather. Air really drives the entire show when it comes to climate change, from the way that it's heating up our water, leading to more muscled hurricanes, to the way that it's also drying out our vegetation and drying out our landscape and leading to more wildfires. It really does run the operation, which is why it is so critical that we reduce the impact that we're currently having on our warming atmosphere by reducing greenhouse gases. So you end the book by talking about the kamikaze iguana. And I have to say I was not expecting that.

What made you do that? Me neither, by the way. I wasn't expecting to do that as well. So when I was a rookie reporter in Miami working for the ABC affiliate, WPLG, I was sent on what felt like a fool's errand to cover frozen iguanas falling from trees, raining from trees. Aguanas are an invasive species to the U.S. They live primarily in South America and were introduced to South Florida back in the 60s and 70s and released into the environment. there by pet owners who got scared as those iguanas got larger. And they found a very nice home in South Florida for a while because the temperature is very similar to the temperatures in South America where they are from. But as the temperatures started to get colder and colder in the winter over the years, they started to struggle and went into a hibernative state to survive, where when a cold snap ended, they would then come back to life, so to speak.

And so I went to a golf course and filmed iguanas. As it turned out, wasn't just an urban legend. They did really fall from trees. When the temperatures dip below 40 degrees, they went into that hyper-native state. And you would think that this would continue to happen. You would see more and more of this. And it still exists. It still happens.

The video that I filmed, by the way, is still used on Jimmy Kimmel. But there is new video out there of these iguanas falling, but less of them are falling from trees and going into this hyper-native state. because they have been able to, as research has shown, adapt to the changing climate. So now new research showing that they're actually equally as active in cold temperatures as they are in warm temperatures. And I end the book, and I don't think it's a spoiler, in a lighthearted way, if an iguana brain, if a lizard brain adapt to our changing environment, I would like to think that our human brain, with all of the engineering feats that we know, and can continue to create and how intelligent we are as a species can also adapt to our changing climate. That's absolutely amazing. You know, I didn't really get to go into all the individual examples of these disasters that you covered because I wanted to cover the overall big picture. And I hope people

go out and buy the book because the individual stories are just so amazing. But there was a fire known as the Kincaid fire and you called it life changing for you. How so? And it was one of the moments where not only was I confronted by our radicalized weather, but I realized that even the men and women in charge of holding it back were being outmaneuvered by Mother Nature. I responded to the Concade Fire in Hildsburg, California, so this is wine country. It was the middle of the night. I went with a producer. We got up to a mountainside. And from there, saw in the distance about a mile, mile and a half from us a fire burning. We were joined by firefighters. Everyone was pretty relaxed because it was so far off in the distance. But very quickly, the wind picked up, sending embers all

around us, scattered on the ground, lighting more fire, and suddenly we were surrounded by flames. And I had never seen in that moment, before that moment, or after that moment, firefighters so panicked. The look in their eyes said it all, but then the fire chief screamed out loud, go, go, go. And everyone knew what to do. They hopped into their fire trucks and made their way down the mountain. We were in that convoy, but the fire got so close to us, the smoke was so black we could not see in front of us. And we lost our way from that pack and accidentally went off the main road and onto a narrow dirt road. We immediately, my producer and I noticed the mistake, but we couldn't turn around. And we hoped that we would find an exit.

That never happened. We reached a dead end and we were surrounded by flames at this point. The flames had, as we were driving down this road, we're already brushing up against both of our windows. They were hot to the touch and there were smoke inside the cabin of our car. And we made the decision to ultimately turn back around. We could have tried to stick it out there, but obviously major concerns with that. Our biggest concern turning around was if the road was on fire, which it was, and what that could possibly do to the tires of our car or if a tree fell down, but we decided it was the only option that we had.

And obviously, you know the end of the story. I'm here talking to you. We made it out. But we returned a day later and sure enough, one of the trees at the end of that road had fallen. we would not have been able to make it out. And that happened before we escaped. And when we were back down in safe ground, joined by other colleagues of mine and firefighters, I sat there and listened to this firefighters that they had never experienced fires like this before

to the point where they had to pull off the mountain. Their equipment was not enough to hold back these firestorms. And so it was an eye-opening moment for me. It was one of the moments that also sparked me writing this book to connect those dots. and it's something that lives with me forever, as you can imagine. Yeah, and when I say the book is full of riveting stories, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's called Before It's Gone, Stories from the Frontlines of Climate Change in Small

Town America. It's out now. Jonathan Vigliotti, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for the conversation. I really appreciate it. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going.

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